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Message no. 1
From: Rune Fostervoll <runefo@***.UIO.NO>
Subject: Re: Underwater Campaign Vessel/Weapon list (2nd ed).
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 13:36:30 +0000
This is the second edition of the Vessel/Weapon list I wrote. I think
it's more reasonable. (Medium range torpedo has less range than the
standoff torpedo, for instance... *COUGH*).

Nautilus - Class Submarine.
This is a typical diesel submarine, a copy of the ones made by the
russians just before the end of the cold war. This was produced by
the chinese in large numbers in the 2020 - 2030's, and the outdated
models are being sold on the black market for about 3-400000 each.
While it is designed for a crew of 29, it can be run by a skeleton
crew of 3. (One engineer and two in the bridge.).

Handling: 7 speed: 15/20 (25/35 running on fuel).
Body : 10 Armor : 9
Sig: 7 (3 on diesel).
Wake: 7
Apilot: 1
EW suite:
Sensors: Level 3
ECM : Level 3
ECCM : Level 2

Economy:
Fuel: Enough for 1 month operations.
PF: 1000
Per hour running on fuel: +20 PF.
5 PF/km.
May not run on fuel fully submerged.

Armaments:
4 Torpedo tubes.
(20 torpedoes in storage.).
Reloading time: 8 actions to reload one.

There is a swivel mount on the conning tower for an assault cannon;
more useful in a pirate role than war.


Osa class Frigate
These frigates are also former military vessels which has filtered
down into the black market. Fast, moderately armed and armored, these
vessels are good all round vessels for the empowerished guerilla or
pirate. It costs approximately 800.000 - used.

Handling: 4 speed: 25/75
Body : 9 Armor : 12 (6 below sea line).
Sig: 3
Wake: 3
Apilot: 2
EW suite:
Sensors: Level 4
ECM : Level 2
ECCM : -

Armaments:
2 Torpedo tubes
1 Large turret (Victory Cannon)
6 missile hardpoints (4 BANDIT AGM's, 2 basic saab Saaker).
(Here I assume the aircraft missiles has surface based equivalents.).
2 hardpoints with HMG's. (Sensor targeted)

Scorpion Gunship
This is the normal gunship encountered in league areas. It is one of
the many variants of the Stallion, produced in black market hangars.
Equipped with low grade sensors and ECM, and no ECCM, it is not a
match for real gunships like the Aguillar, but it is a rugged design
that has proven battleworthy.

(A modified version of the stallion, costs approx. 600000 w.o.
weapons).

Handling: 5
Speed: 170/250
B/A: 5/9
Sig: 4
Apilot: 3

Sensors: 3
ECM : 2

Seating: Twin bucket seats
Access: 2 standard + 1 double sized
Fuel: 1250 liters, 0.1 km/L
2 folding benches (seats 6)

2 hardpoints, 2 *2cf firmpoints.
(usually mounted:
1 HMG centerline mount
1 hyundai-csa AAM
2 2cf 12.7cm rocket pods

optionally HMG, hyundai, and two sparrow torps.


Seawolf class Attack submarine: MILITARY CLASS VESSEL
This is a modern style nuclear attack submarine similar to the Los
Angeles class or Sierra class subs. Notice that it has a worse sig
than the diesel sub. This is not a mistake; nuclear engines makes a
lot more noise than electrical ones. To counterbalance this the
nuclear subs are constructed with advanced materials and noise
reduction systems, but it's not quite enough. But they more than make
up for it in speed, electronics, and mission durability.

Handling: 6 speed: 40/60
Body : 11 Armor : 12
Sig: 5
Wake: 10
Apilot: 5
EW suite:
Sensors: Level 7 (Has towed array).
ECM : Level 6
ECCM : Level 6

Economy: N/A. Nuclear.

Armaments:
4 Torpedo tubes.
(20 torpedoes in storage.).
Reloading time: 6 actions to reload one.
2 X-tube launchers.
(8 torpedoes)
Reloading time: 8 actions to reload one.

12 Vertical Launchers(single shot).
4 Cruise missile silos.

Cost: (Who cares? Only large governments and corporations can
possibly afford one, and only the largest ones at that.).



Archimedean forces (Yes, my imagination in naming the underwater city
is limited.).

Manta class fighter sub:
This sub looks somewhat like its namesake, both in colouring and
looks. Its engines are encases inductor channels on each side of its
'spine', at the wingtips are the two torpedo mounts. The torpedo
mounts has shells to reduce and even out drag. (And hide the
torpedoes' signatures). The cockpit itself is in the center of the
sub; it has no windows, relying on sensors and a UV camera to
generate a view of the surroundings. (Safer against pressure). The
Manta is rigger controlled exclusively.


Handling: 3 speed: 50/80
Body : 5 Armor : 12
Sig: 6
Wake: 15
Apilot: 5
EW suite:
Sensors: Level 7
ECM : Level 5
ECCM : Level 5

Economy:
0.5 km per PF
PF: 3000

Armaments:
2 single 'wing mounted torpedoes'. (Usually a slammer and an akula
class torp. These cannot be fired at speeds above 30).
1 rotary launcher (sonic)
Crew: 1 (Rigger).
Cost: 15M

Shiva class sub carrier:
Only one exists, making cost irrelevant.
These huge subs are designed to stay submerged during its entire
active life, resupplying and being repaired in Archimedea.
It is a massive vessel, but like most carriers not really designed to
go into combat directly. A single Akula could easily destroy it.

Handling: 8 speed: 30/50
Body : 15 Armor : 12
Sig: 8
Wake: 5
Apilot: 5
EW suite:
Sensors: Level 7
ECM : Level 6
ECCM : Level 6

Economy: N/A. Fusion.

Armaments:
8 Torpedo tubes.
4 X-tube launchers.
20 Vertical Launchers(single shot)
CIWS (Close - in weapon system).

8 Manta class subs.
1 rescue sub.

Mk I torpedo:
This is the basic submarine or MTB anti - shipping torpedo.
It is cheap, and not effective against military targets.
Intelligence 4, speed 40, sig 4, damage: 20D.
Duration: 70 combat turns. (B/A: 3/0)
Cost: 40.000

Mk II torpedo
This is the basic submarine or MTB close range anti - submarine
torpedo. It is similar to the Mk I, mainly with lower duration
and faster speed.
Intelligence 4, speed 50, sig 3, damage 20D.
Duration: 30 combat turns. (B/A: 3/0)
Cost: 40.000.

Mk III torpedo:
This is the regular submarine or MTB standoff - torpedo, and
a good all - round medium to long range torpedo.
It has a long range, an ok warhead, and good targeting systems.
Intelligence 5, speed 45, sig 4, damage 24D.
Duration: 80 combat turns. (B/A: 3/3).
Cost: 100.000

Sparrow Torpedo
Air dropped torpedoes; these target the closest underwater target and
attacks. If it finds no target, it self destructs. Helicopters drop
sunobuoys to actively ping for targets first. (Sensor: 4).
Intelligence: 5, speed 60, sig 3, damage 24D.
Duration: 20 combat turns. (B/A: 2/3).

They take 2 CF wing mounted.
Cost: 100.000

Slammer Torpedo (Military Only)
Huge torpedoes, two stage engine. (First stage is electrical, quiet,
second stage is rocket propelled.). It requires an X - tube. It is a
short range torpedo designed to take out hard or protected targets.
Intelligence 6, speed 40/120, sig 5/0, damage 30D, -1/3M.
Duration: 40 combat turns/5 combat turns. (B/A: 3/6).
Cost: 300.000
This torpedo does not relock on target if it misses, and
automatically detonates. This can in fact damage the target anyway.
(It usually detonates at a scatter of 5D6*3M.).

Akula (shark) torpedo (Military Only)
This is similar to the russian anti - carrier torpedoes. Extremely
long ranged, and with humongous warheads. It requires an X - tube.
Intelligence 6, speed 40, sig 5, damage 50D. (-1 /M).
Duration: 1 hour. (B/A: 5/6).
Cost: 300.000

Rocket Torpedo Carrier:(Military Only)
Only used on modern military submarines, these rockets are vertically
launched, travel horisontally, then launch a sparrow torpedo. Only
launched against targets allready identified by the sub. They have a
20km range, travel time 10 combat turns. (The missile, not the torp).
(They enter the water with 1 cumulative targeting success, not 0).
Cost: 100.000

Nuclear Standoff Depth Charge
Used only by the Kiev class anti - sub carrier and some russian
boomer subs it uses a delivery system similat to the RTC to deliver a
nuclear depth charge.(Range 8 km due to significantly higher
payload). Assume that if they have anything close to a lock (2+
targeting successes) they hit & kill. May use normal depth charges
too. (That requires 3+ targeting successes. These DC's has a 45S
damage code.). (Possibly not available in 2050. BTW in my campaign
Ares owns and maintains the CIS fleet. (And army)).

Depth Charge:
This is an outdated weapon system, but in the same way aircraft still
use machineguns, ships still carry these. Set to explode at a certain
depth, they are designed to destroy their target with the area of
effect of the explosion rather than direct hits. They may go off at
any depth, with a scatter of 5d6*3, -4M per targeting success.
Damage: 40S, -1/2M. (Usually 22S with 3 successes.).
Most ships carry 2-4 DC launchers and about 8 for each.

Vertically launched missiles:
Most kinds of missiles can be put in this, least of which is the
Bandit AGM (Or in this case, SSM). Surface to air missiles are
uncommon in these launchers, since they are not effective launched
without targeting.

Cruise missile silo:
The less said the better. SR is the wrong scale for this kind of
thing.

Rotary launched sonic rocket (Manta only).
This 'torpedo' uses a sonic projector to 'loosen' the water in front
of the rocket, creating a cone through which it meets with far less
resistance. Rocket driven, the torpedo then travels through this cone
at high speed. (In effect, a direct fire, 'instant' weapon, much like
regular missiles and rockets.). It has an intelligence of 4 (added
to gunnery and sensor rating), and uses normal sensor targeting
rules. It uses normal missile launcher range, with a damage of 24D.
(AVM).
Cost: 50000

CIWS
Much similar to their surface equivalents, the CIWS is a system
designed to destroy incoming weapons. It gets a single roll of the
ship's sensor rating + apilot rating against the boogie's
signature rating, +2 due to speed. Divide 100 by the number of
successes to see how close the torpedo gets before detonation. It is
completely automated. It uses a system similar to the Manta's sonic
rockets, except that the weapon system itself houses the sonic
projector. It has a range of less than 100 yards; big enough warheads
can still damage the ship. (Indeed, only one success and it's stopped
just before impact.). The weapon deals 12D damage. If the torpedo
gets serious damage it will explode without impacting. At deadly it
is destroyed and does not detonate, at moderate or less it impacts
normally (But with TN modifications to its impact roll).
--
Rune Fostervoll

"But the dread of something after death,
The undiscovered country, from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will,
And makes us rather bear those ills we have,
Than fly to others that we no not of."
Message no. 2
From: "Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Underwater Campaign Vessel/Weapon list (2nd ed).
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 15:03:29 +0100
In message <199706071140.NAA09411@***.uio.no>, Rune Fostervoll
<runefo@***.UIO.NO> writes
>Nautilus - Class Submarine.
>This is a typical diesel submarine, a copy of the ones made by the
>russians just before the end of the cold war. This was produced by
>the chinese in large numbers in the 2020 - 2030's, and the outdated
>models are being sold on the black market for about 3-400000 each.
>While it is designed for a crew of 29, it can be run by a skeleton
>crew of 3. (One engineer and two in the bridge.).

Though boats that go out with so few crew, often don't come back:
there's no room for error, especially on a thirty-year-old boat that's
seen indifferent to no maintenance.

Get a Gang/Tribe and have them be the crew :)

>Per hour running on fuel: +20 PF.
>5 PF/km.
>May not run on fuel fully submerged.

No snorkel?

>Seawolf class Attack submarine: MILITARY CLASS VESSEL
>This is a modern style nuclear attack submarine similar to the Los
>Angeles class or Sierra class subs. Notice that it has a worse sig
>than the diesel sub. This is not a mistake; nuclear engines makes a
>lot more noise than electrical ones. To counterbalance this the
>nuclear subs are constructed with advanced materials and noise
>reduction systems, but it's not quite enough.

Beg to differ here, Rune, while a nuclear submarine is intrinsically
noisier than a diesel-electric submarine (if nothing else you have to
flow water through the reactor), design matters a great deal and
maintenance far, far more.

A spanner dropped into the wrong part of the bilge and left there, say,
can quadruple the amount of noise a submarine makes, by acting as an
"acoustic short" and conducting vibration to the hull and thence to the
outside. A chipped propeller blade makes a submarine much louder. Even a
heavy growth of marine life cuts speed and increases noise: better be
sure you have a drydock available to scrape the hull.

Operationally, good nuclear boats can be as quiet as good conventional
subs, and _quieter_ than older ones (like the old Foxtrots and Romeos
your 'Nautilus' equates to).

> But they more than make
>up for it in speed, electronics, and mission durability.

In all sorts of ways, too.

>Armaments:
>4 Torpedo tubes.
>(20 torpedoes in storage.).
>Reloading time: 6 actions to reload one.

>2 X-tube launchers.
>(8 torpedoes)
>Reloading time: 8 actions to reload one.

X-Tube? Missed that one.


>Mk I torpedo:
>This is the basic submarine or MTB anti - shipping torpedo.
>It is cheap, and not effective against military targets.
>Intelligence 4, speed 40, sig 4, damage: 20D.
>Duration: 70 combat turns. (B/A: 3/0)
>Cost: 40.000

Depends which military targets: a replenishment ship, or an old unit
lacking countermeasures, should worry. (See the USS Phoenix, in her
final guise as the General Belgrano)

>Slammer Torpedo (Military Only)
>Huge torpedoes, two stage engine. (First stage is electrical, quiet,
>second stage is rocket propelled.). It requires an X - tube.

Oh, right, an X-Tube is similar to the fUSSR 26-inch tubes (as against
the usual 21") or the oversize tubes fitted to the Seawolf?

>Depth Charge:
>This is an outdated weapon system, but in the same way aircraft still
>use machineguns, ships still carry these.

Mostly to be dropped by the ship's helicopter. They work best in
conditions like parts of the Baltic or off the Norwegian fjords, where
you have severe salinity and temperature gradients, shallow water and
very irregular bottom contours that make detecting submarines and,
especually, using guided weapons on them difficult: depth charges don't
care about guidance, they just sink and explode.

Generally you'd use thrown or launched charges, like the British Limbo
mortar or the Russian RBU series, rather than the World War Two stern
racks and K-guns.

>Rotary launched sonic rocket (Manta only).
>This 'torpedo' uses a sonic projector to 'loosen' the water in front
>of the rocket, creating a cone through which it meets with far less
>resistance. Rocket driven, the torpedo then travels through this cone
>at high speed. (In effect, a direct fire, 'instant' weapon, much like
>regular missiles and rockets.).

Something very like this exists today, the Russian "Shkval" rocket
torpedo: it uses a gas generator in the nose to operate in a
supercavitating mode and achieves 200-300 knots of speed. Unguided, it's
a reaction weapon for immediate counterfire.



Good stuff, though, I rather like it :)


--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
Message no. 3
From: Rune Fostervoll <runefo@***.UIO.NO>
Subject: Re: Underwater Campaign Vessel/Weapon list (2nd ed).
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 18:29:20 +0000
> >While it is designed for a crew of 29, it can be run by a skeleton
> >crew of 3. (One engineer and two in the bridge.).
>
> Though boats that go out with so few crew, often don't come back:
> there's no room for error, especially on a thirty-year-old boat that's
> seen indifferent to no maintenance.
Details, details... :)

> Get a Gang/Tribe and have them be the crew :)
>
> >Per hour running on fuel: +20 PF.
> >5 PF/km.
> >May not run on fuel fully submerged.
>
> No snorkel?
'fully submerged' = below periscope depth....
(*cough* Ok, I forgot. Of course it has a snorkel.).

> >Seawolf class Attack submarine: MILITARY CLASS VESSEL
> >This is a modern style nuclear attack submarine similar to the Los
> >Angeles class or Sierra class subs. Notice that it has a worse sig
> >than the diesel sub. This is not a mistake; nuclear engines makes a
> >lot more noise than electrical ones. To counterbalance this the
> >nuclear subs are constructed with advanced materials and noise
> >reduction systems, but it's not quite enough.
>
> Beg to differ here, Rune, while a nuclear submarine is intrinsically
> noisier than a diesel-electric submarine (if nothing else you have to
> flow water through the reactor), design matters a great deal and
> maintenance far, far more.
>
> A spanner dropped into the wrong part of the bilge and left there, say,
> can quadruple the amount of noise a submarine makes, by acting as an
> "acoustic short" and conducting vibration to the hull and thence to the
> outside. A chipped propeller blade makes a submarine much louder. Even a
> heavy growth of marine life cuts speed and increases noise: better be
> sure you have a drydock available to scrape the hull.
>
> Operationally, good nuclear boats can be as quiet as good conventional
> subs, and _quieter_ than older ones (like the old Foxtrots and Romeos
> your 'Nautilus' equates to).
(They're also two to three times as big.). I'm thinking the Nautilus
as one of the ok subs, if a bit old, so its electronics is
outdated. Maintenance is simply determined by damage levels - a sub
without enough maintenance would start out with light damage, with
appropriate modifiers. (It should modify sig too, although it doesn't
state that... hm.. new optional rule underway, I think.). That way,
giving the proper maintenance (repairing the boat) would also give a
boat in better shape. And ignoring it worsens the problem. The
'default stats' though should be of a vessel in perfect shape, IMHO,
letting worsened conditions affect it afterwards.

Optional rule: Any vessel that has suffered damage has its damage
modifier subtracted from its signature. This represents simply bad
maintenance, suppression systems that malfunction, damages to the
hull which give increased resistance and thus noise, or any other
condition appropriate to the cause of the damage.


> >Mk I torpedo:
> >This is the basic submarine or MTB anti - shipping torpedo.
> >It is cheap, and not effective against military targets.
> >Intelligence 4, speed 40, sig 4, damage: 20D.
> >Duration: 70 combat turns. (B/A: 3/0)
> >Cost: 40.000
>
> Depends which military targets: a replenishment ship, or an old unit
> lacking countermeasures, should worry. (See the USS Phoenix, in her
> final guise as the General Belgrano)
Well, yeah. Minor detail. Let me amend that and say 'naval
combatants'. :)

> >Slammer Torpedo (Military Only)
> >Huge torpedoes, two stage engine. (First stage is electrical, quiet,
> >second stage is rocket propelled.). It requires an X - tube.
>
> Oh, right, an X-Tube is similar to the fUSSR 26-inch tubes (as against
> the usual 21") or the oversize tubes fitted to the Seawolf?
Yep, got it in one. :)


> Good stuff, though, I rather like it :)
Thanks!

Actually, I had a slight headache when designing larger vessels..
there's few or no guidelines to how much body or armor they should
have. I expect a doubling in size results in +2 body, more or less,
with military style vessels getting a +2-4 afterwards, as well as
some armor. And for weapon power levels... 1d6 is intended for a
rather small range of numbers. 'shipbuster' torpedoes should then be
within 1-6 of the ship's armor value, I guess, but this value also
varies a lot. Any adjustments suggested? Any suggestions for, say,
cruise ships, supertankers, cruisers, bulk freighters, container
ships?


BTW, spoke to a diver buddy of mine. Diving with oxygen tanks does
not let you dive below 30 meters or so. You can go deeper without
oxygen tanks (About 90) as you do not get large high - pressure
nitrogen bubbles in you. With special gas flasks you can go down
to 100 meters and still not use any *really* special gear, but going
below that is dangerous. Oxygen becomes poisonous at those pressures.
North - sea rig divers (oil rig maintenance teams) can go down to 300
meters, but they use pressure tanks, and very special, and expensive,
equipment.

(As a side note, the cybernetic 'chemical balancer' is intended to
add chemicals that keeps the body's chemistry working as it's
supposed to even at high pressures. There's a lot of fun changes in
the chemistry when the pressure increases.. blood becomes green, for
instance.).
--
Rune Fostervoll

"But the dread of something after death,
The undiscovered country, from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will,
And makes us rather bear those ills we have,
Than fly to others that we no not of."

Further Reading

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