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Message no. 1
From: "Ubiratan P. Alberton" <ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR>
Subject: Unusual Vehicles
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 21:31:18 -0300
I'm engaging in a new project... I'm trying to make up some
new templates for Rigger 2, to adapt some unusual anime vehicles to it.

No, I will not add the SDF-1 Macross, calm yourselves down and put
the assorted combat aquatic animals away. I'm thinking of more plausible
vehicles such as the LABORs from the Patlabor movies (I haven't seen the
TV series), and the Fuchikoma "Spider Tank" from the Ghost in the Shell
movie (maybe the smaller units from the manga, too, but I don'r know
much
about these).

I was thinking of basing them off antrhoforms and walkers,
respectively. The LABORs would use a 5-ton (Body 4 or 5) humanoid
chassis,
with a cockpit (bucket seat with APPS and a crash cage) and other
things.

The Fochikoma would use MBT-sized chassis (Body 6 to 8), but would
move
on legs and have a "head" instead of a normal turret. The small ones
would
have a body of 2 or 3.

What do you think of it? Any ideas?

Bira
Message no. 2
From: Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Unusual Vehicles
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 20:58:12 EDT
In a message dated 8/14/98 7:28:08 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR writes:

> I'm engaging in a new project... I'm trying to make up some
> new templates for Rigger 2, to adapt some unusual anime vehicles to it.

LOL on getting the R2 to mesh with stuff out of the anime flicks and shows.

> No, I will not add the SDF-1 Macross, calm yourselves down and put
> the assorted combat aquatic animals away. I'm thinking of more plausible
> vehicles such as the LABORs from the Patlabor movies (I haven't seen the
> TV series), and the Fuchikoma "Spider Tank" from the Ghost in the Shell
> movie (maybe the smaller units from the manga, too, but I don'r know
> much
> about these).

Hmm, is the Spider Tank from GitS similar to the Spider Tank that was in one
of the episodes of the Bubblegun Crisis (or Crash)?

> I was thinking of basing them off antrhoforms and walkers,
> respectively. The LABORs would use a 5-ton (Body 4 or 5) humanoid
> chassis,
> with a cockpit (bucket seat with APPS and a crash cage) and other
> things.

The only thing I have found, with modifying current stuff in the R2 for use
with mechs is not only the exorbitant cost, but also the power plant types
that are available. Normal Gasoline and Electric power plants might not have
enough power to do the trick. With Diesel power plants, sure there may be
enough power plants, but there might not be enough power to supply a decent
Speed or Accel rating. As for the power plant of choice ... Jet Turbine ...

> The Fochikoma would use MBT-sized chassis (Body 6 to 8), but would
> move
> on legs and have a "head" instead of a normal turret. The small ones
> would
> have a body of 2 or 3.

For the possibilty of legs, how about making the Spider Tank nothing more than
a larger scale version of the Lynx, it would still make it a wheeled vehicle,
and would grant the thing a very good Speed and Accel, as compared to having
the Speed and Accel of an anthroform.

> What do you think of it? Any ideas?

The one thing I can say is this ... take some liberty with the current chassis
designs and just describe them differently ... you could increase the cost to
reflect the fact that sure, this is a <insert name> chassis type, but it looks
like this instead of looking this way.

Doing this might save you some time and perhaps even the headache of designing
new chassis types and power plants to go along with them.

-Herc
------ The Best Mechanic you can ever have.
Message no. 3
From: Owen Landgren <wodin@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Unusual Vehicles
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 20:08:55 -0700
Ubiratan P. Alberton wrote:
>
> I'm engaging in a new project... I'm trying to make up some
> new templates for Rigger 2, to adapt some unusual anime vehicles to it.
>
> No, I will not add the SDF-1 Macross, calm yourselves down and put
> the assorted combat aquatic animals away. I'm thinking of more plausible
> vehicles such as the LABORs from the Patlabor movies (I haven't seen the
> TV series), and the Fuchikoma "Spider Tank" from the Ghost in the Shell
> movie (maybe the smaller units from the manga, too, but I don'r know
> much
> about these).

What about the stabilizing systems on the sniper helicopters? Those
would be a lot of fun, and they might also make for a very scary run
i.e. Corp gets tipped off that runners are going, has the chopper dog
them and start picking them off.

On a slightly more tongue in cheek note, is the Panther Assault Cannon
"your standard issue big gun?" That was an awesome line, and it deserves
an awesome gun.

> I was thinking of basing them off antrhoforms and walkers,
> respectively. The LABORs would use a 5-ton (Body 4 or 5) humanoid
> chassis,
> with a cockpit (bucket seat with APPS and a crash cage) and other
> things.
>
> The Fochikoma would use MBT-sized chassis (Body 6 to 8), but would
> move
> on legs and have a "head" instead of a normal turret. The small ones
> would
> have a body of 2 or 3.
>
> What do you think of it? Any ideas?

Looks good. I hope the suggestions above helped. In cyberware, wouldn't
most deckers kill for the boost that thosefingers would give you? The
ones that split into 3 (or is it 6?) smaller manipulators. You could
probably get a +1 or +2 bonus on using a deck with them.

Owen Landgren
Keeper of the Great Blue Egg of Reclai
Loves Ghost in the Shell
Message no. 4
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Unusual Vehicles
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 20:29:51 -0500
On Fri, 14 Aug 1998 20:58:12 EDT Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM> writes:
>In a message dated 8/14/98 7:28:08 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
>ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR writes:

>> I'm engaging in a new project... I'm trying to make up some
>> new templates for Rigger 2, to adapt some unusual anime vehicles to
it.

>LOL on getting the R2 to mesh with stuff out of the anime flicks and
shows.

I can prolly design something in the Mekton Zeta system if someone can
convert it to SR (I /might/ be able to convert to Cyber Punk)

>> No, I will not add the SDF-1 Macross, calm yourselves down and put
>> the assorted combat aquatic animals away. I'm thinking of more
plausible
>> vehicles such as the LABORs from the Patlabor movies (I haven't seen
the
>> TV series), and the Fuchikoma "Spider Tank" from the Ghost in the
Shell
>> movie (maybe the smaller units from the manga, too, but I don'r know
much
>> about these).

>Hmm, is the Spider Tank from GitS similar to the Spider Tank that was in
one
>of the episodes of the Bubblegun Crisis (or Crash)?

Nope. The Genki Battlemover, if that's what your thinking of, is very
different. The spider tank in GitS is more like an AT-AT from Star Wars
with 6 legs. (though the legs do resemble the Genki Battlemover's)

>> I was thinking of basing them off antrhoforms and walkers,
>> respectively. The LABORs would use a 5-ton (Body 4 or 5) humanoid
chassis,
>> with a cockpit (bucket seat with APPS and a crash cage) and other
things.

>The only thing I have found, with modifying current stuff in the R2 for
use
>with mechs is not only the exorbitant cost, but also the power plant
types
>that are available. Normal Gasoline and Electric power plants might not
have
>enough power to do the trick. With Diesel power plants, sure there may
be
>enough power plants, but there might not be enough power to supply a
decent
>Speed or Accel rating. As for the power plant of choice ... Jet Turbine
...

Deffinately.

>> The Fochikoma would use MBT-sized chassis (Body 6 to 8), but would
move
>> on legs and have a "head" instead of a normal turret. The small ones
would
>> have a body of 2 or 3.

>For the possibilty of legs, how about making the Spider Tank nothing
more than
>a larger scale version of the Lynx, it would still make it a wheeled
vehicle,
>and would grant the thing a very good Speed and Accel, as compared to
having
>the Speed and Accel of an anthroform.

In a sense, the spider tank IS a larger version of the Lynk ... It'd be
(if you want to be true to GitS) a walker chassis, not an Anthroform.

>> What do you think of it? Any ideas?

>The one thing I can say is this ... take some liberty with the current
chassis
>designs and just describe them differently ... you could increase the
cost to
>reflect the fact that sure, this is a <insert name> chassis type, but it
looks
>like this instead of looking this way.
>
>Doing this might save you some time and perhaps even the headache of
designing
>new chassis types and power plants to go along with them.
>
>-Herc
>------ The Best Mechanic you can ever have.

I don't think he can get the results he wants doing things that way.
Bira, be warned: Putting Labors, Battlemovers, and other anime style
vehicles into SR might be cool but when you're done you will most likely
have an anime game that resembles SR rather than a SR game that resembles
anime ...

D. Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
o/` Trideo killed the Video Star ... o/`

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Message no. 5
From: Adam Getchell <acgetchell@*******.EDU>
Subject: Re: Unusual Vehicles
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 19:58:39 -0700
>What about the stabilizing systems on the sniper helicopters? Those
>would be a lot of fun, and they might also make for a very scary run
>i.e. Corp gets tipped off that runners are going, has the chopper dog
>them and start picking them off.

Neat idea. However, it's probably just easier to have a precision
microturret rather than "device drivers" for the sniper's heart and lungs.
Machines don't have to breathe.

>> The Fochikoma would use MBT-sized chassis (Body 6 to 8), but would
>> move
>> on legs and have a "head" instead of a normal turret. The small ones
>> would
>> have a body of 2 or 3.
>>
>> What do you think of it? Any ideas?

The ones in the comic book were more mobile (they clung to the sides of
buildings). A walker is probably hard-put to keep pace with a tracked tank,
and of course it would be a sitting duck, thermoptic camouflage or no.

The more mobile ones would be more like a combat suit. Would be an
interesting idea.

>Looks good. I hope the suggestions above helped. In cyberware, wouldn't
>most deckers kill for the boost that thosefingers would give you? The
>ones that split into 3 (or is it 6?) smaller manipulators. You could
>probably get a +1 or +2 bonus on using a deck with them.

Again, neat idea, but DNI would undoubtably be much faster than trying to
use fast mechanical interface. Reminds me of the steam-powered horse of the
19th century.

>Owen Landgren
>Keeper of the Great Blue Egg of Reclai
>Loves Ghost in the Shell

So do I! Watched it a dozen times ...
--Adam

acgetchell@*******.edu
"Invincibility is in oneself, vulnerability in the opponent." --Sun Tzu
Message no. 6
From: Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Unusual Vehicles
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 08:30:18 EDT
In a message dated 8/14/98 8:34:05 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
dghost@****.COM writes:

> >The one thing I can say is this ... take some liberty with the current
> chassis
> >designs and just describe them differently ... you could increase the
> cost to
> >reflect the fact that sure, this is a <insert name> chassis type, but it
> looks
> >like this instead of looking this way.
> >
> >Doing this might save you some time and perhaps even the headache of
> designing
> >new chassis types and power plants to go along with them.
> >
> >-Herc
> >------ The Best Mechanic you can ever have.
>
> I don't think he can get the results he wants doing things that way.
> Bira, be warned: Putting Labors, Battlemovers, and other anime style
> vehicles into SR might be cool but when you're done you will most likely
> have an anime game that resembles SR rather than a SR game that resembles
> anime ...

I agree completely with you ... so, Bira, be careful what type of game you are
trying to mimic ...

-Herc
------ The Best Mechanic you can ever have.
Message no. 7
From: "Ubiratan P. Alberton" <ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR>
Subject: Re: Unusual Vehicles
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 19:45:09 -0300
Mike Bobroff wrote:
>
> In a message dated 8/14/98 7:28:08 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
> ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR writes:
>
> > I'm engaging in a new project... I'm trying to make up some
> > new templates for Rigger 2, to adapt some unusual anime vehicles to it.
>
> LOL on getting the R2 to mesh with stuff out of the anime flicks and shows.

Some of them are actually doable :) .

> > No, I will not add the SDF-1 Macross, calm yourselves down and put
> > the assorted combat aquatic animals away. I'm thinking of more plausible
> > vehicles such as the LABORs from the Patlabor movies (I haven't seen the
> > TV series), and the Fuchikoma "Spider Tank" from the Ghost in the
Shell
> > movie (maybe the smaller units from the manga, too, but I don'r know
> > much
> > about these).
>
> Hmm, is the Spider Tank from GitS similar to the Spider Tank that was in one
> of the episodes of the Bubblegun Crisis (or Crash)?

It's almost MBT-sized, and it moves slowly. The head holds two
rotating
autocannons and what appears to be a missile launcher. The smaller ones
are a bit smaller that a VW Bug :).
Both versions have mechanical arms, near the head, but only the small
units can do fine manipulation. Both versions are manned, and the small
units, in tha manga and in the Playstation game (where I base my
information)
are self-aware. I would make this bit as a Pilot 5 and a Interaction
Expert
System...

> > I was thinking of basing them off antrhoforms and walkers,
> > respectively. The LABORs would use a 5-ton (Body 4 or 5) humanoid
> > chassis,
> > with a cockpit (bucket seat with APPS and a crash cage) and other
> > things.
>
> The only thing I have found, with modifying current stuff in the R2 for use
> with mechs is not only the exorbitant cost, but also the power plant types
> that are available. Normal Gasoline and Electric power plants might not have
> enough power to do the trick. With Diesel power plants, sure there may be
> enough power plants, but there might not be enough power to supply a decent
> Speed or Accel rating. As for the power plant of choice ... Jet Turbine ...

The large tank may operate on diesel. It's little speed would be
compensated
by a higher-than-normal Signature, I think.

The Labors seem to be electric, and I think that a Labor-sized
electic
engine might be just enough to make them worthwile. Construction Labors
migh
be run on diesel, as it has a big Load rating.

In the TV series, there is a flying Labor with jet turbines, but I
haven't wacthed
that one... (It's built by a big German Corp... :) ) .


> > The Fochikoma would use MBT-sized chassis (Body 6 to 8), but would
> > move
> > on legs and have a "head" instead of a normal turret. The small ones
> > would
> > have a body of 2 or 3.
>
> For the possibilty of legs, how about making the Spider Tank nothing more than
> a larger scale version of the Lynx, it would still make it a wheeled vehicle,
> and would grant the thing a very good Speed and Accel, as compared to having
> the Speed and Accel of an anthroform.

The small Fuchikoma indeed had wheels in its legs, but it takes the
name
"Spider Tank" to the letter... It's legs allow it to climb over almost
any wall
or ceiling, and it has a winch to do the web-dangling trick :) .
The Fuchikoma MBT may do the climbing too, I guess.

> > What do you think of it? Any ideas?
>
> The one thing I can say is this ... take some liberty with the current chassis
> designs and just describe them differently ... you could increase the cost to
> reflect the fact that sure, this is a <insert name> chassis type, but it looks
> like this instead of looking this way.

The only chassis that looked like a Labor was the Anthroform...
Upping the
Body, Load and Cargo we have the Labor. The cost would go really up,
maybe costing
around 2.000 design points would be ballanced.
The big Fuchikoma is a medium tank with legs...
And the small one migh be based off a unusual car :) ?

What about this?
Message no. 8
From: "Ubiratan P. Alberton" <ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR>
Subject: Re: Unusual Vehicles
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 19:56:17 -0300
>
> I don't think he can get the results he wants doing things that way.
> Bira, be warned: Putting Labors, Battlemovers, and other anime style
> vehicles into SR might be cool but when you're done you will most likely
> have an anime game that resembles SR rather than a SR game that resembles
> anime ...


Add the following background :) :

New designs, used only by Japan, and kept very secret. Maybe the
Fuchikoma and Labors have the same semi-legndary status as the
Stonewall LABT, being only used by the military. the rest of the world
has LAVs, Japan has these babies :) .

Bira
Message no. 9
From: Bai Shen <baishen@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Unusual Vehicles
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 22:13:11 -0400
Speaking of this, I seem to remember a Bubblegum Crisis version of SR on
the net. Maybe that'll give you some ideas.
--
Bai Shen
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
http://www.series2000.com/users/baishen
UIN 3543257 (Don't ask to join if you aren't going to send me anything.)
Message no. 10
From: "Ubiratan P. Alberton" <ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR>
Subject: Re: Unusual Vehicles
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 20:23:32 -0300
Bai Shen wrote:
>
> Speaking of this, I seem to remember a Bubblegum Crisis version of SR on
> the net. Maybe that'll give you some ideas.

Been there, read that. I have my own ideas :) .

Bira

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