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Message no. 1
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: upgrading characters
Date: Mon Jun 18 10:55:01 2001
I am playing a Physad and I have improved reflexes which costed me 3 magic points (+4
Reaction +2D6 Initiative). If I want to upgrade it to what costs 5 points (+6 Reaction
+3D6 Initiative), do I have to be an initiate lvl 5? I figure that it would only cost me 2
points because of the difference from 3 to 5 (5-3=2), or am I wrong? I also need to know
if you wanted to upgrade your cyberware, what would the essence cost be? If you took a
hypothetical piece of cyberware that cost 1 essence at lvl 1 and 3 essence at lvl 2, would
you have to pay 3 additional essence to get it to lvl 2 or just 2 (3-1=2) because of the
difference?
Message no. 2
From: shadowrn@*********.com (kawaii)
Subject: upgrading characters
Date: Mon Jun 18 11:10:01 2001
----- Original Message -----
From: <LordNagaraja@***.com>
To: <shadowrn@*********.com>
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2001 10:57 AM
Subject: upgrading characters


> I am playing a Physad and I have improved reflexes which costed me 3 magic
points (+4 Reaction +2D6 Initiative). If I want to upgrade it to what costs
5 points (+6 Reaction +3D6 Initiative), do I have to be an initiate lvl 5? I
figure that it would only cost me 2 points because of the difference from 3
to 5 (5-3=2), or am I wrong? I also need to know if you wanted to upgrade
your cyberware, what would the essence cost be? If you took a hypothetical
piece of cyberware that cost 1 essence at lvl 1 and 3 essence at lvl 2,
would you have to pay 3 additional essence to get it to lvl 2 or just 2
(3-1=2) because of the difference?
>

In most cases, (actually, in all cases that comes to mind immediately, and
especially in your situation) you only need to pay the difference between
the levels. IE: If I have wired reflexes at level 2, and want to upgrade to
level three, I would pay (level 3) - (level 2) in essence (which in this
case is 2 points, I think.)

Ever lovable and always scrappy,
kawaii
Message no. 3
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: upgrading characters
Date: Mon Jun 18 13:40:03 2001
According to LordNagaraja@***.com, on Mon, 18 Jun 2001 the word on the street was...

> I am playing a Physad and I have improved reflexes which costed me 3
> magic points (+4 Reaction +2D6 Initiative). If I want to upgrade it to
> what costs 5 points (+6 Reaction +3D6 Initiative), do I have to be an
> initiate lvl 5? I figure that it would only cost me 2 points because of
> the difference from 3 to 5 (5-3=2), or am I wrong?

You are exactly right: it will only cost you 2 Power Points, which you can
either buy with 40 Karma (20 Karma per point) or through gaining two
initiation grades, which will be cheaper in Karma but not in effort.

> I also need to know if you wanted to upgrade your cyberware, what would
> the essence cost be? If you took a hypothetical piece of cyberware that
> cost 1 essence at lvl 1 and 3 essence at lvl 2, would you have to pay 3
> additional essence to get it to lvl 2 or just 2 (3-1=2) because of the
> difference?

You can have the old 'ware removed, which leaves an "Essence hole" equal to
its Essence cost; any new cyberware first fills that hole before costing
you actual Essence. So, if you had that 1 Essence item removed so you could
put in an upgraded version costing 3 Essence, you're only actually losing 3
- 1 = 2 Essence (beyond what you had already lost, of course). All this
assuming the cyberware _can_ be removed, of course. Also, you and your GM
would do well to carefully read the surgery rules in Man & Machine, because
those can modify things somewhat.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Conformity is our tragedy
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+@ UL P L++ E W-(++) N o? K w+(--) O V?
PS+ PE(-)(+) Y PGP- t@ 5++ X(+) R+++(-)>$ tv+ b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 4
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Sebastian Wiers)
Subject: upgrading characters
Date: Mon Jun 18 22:55:00 2001
> I am playing a Physad and I have improved reflexes which costed me 3
> magic points (+4 Reaction +2D6 Initiative). If I want to upgrade it to
> what costs 5 points (+6 Reaction +3D6 Initiative), do I have to be an
> initiate lvl 5? I figure that it would only cost me 2 points because of
> the difference from 3 to 5 (5-3=2), or am I wrong?

You are correct. You have level 2 of Improved Reflexes, and you want level
3. The cost difference is 2 power points. Its just as if you wanted to
raise Level 2 "improived ability" to Level 3- you just pay the cost
difference.

> I also need to know if you wanted to upgrade your cyberware, what would
> the essence cost be? If you took a hypothetical piece of cyberware that
> cost 1 essence at lvl 1 and 3 essence at lvl 2, would you have to pay 3
> additional essence to get it to lvl 2 or just 2 (3-1=2) because of the
> difference?

Generally old cyber systems have to be removed for a new one of higher
rating to be put in. {Just which is unclear- this seems commonly accepted
for Wired Reflexes, but would it logically apply to skillwires?}
The common house rule is that the new cyber has its essence cost reduced by
the essence cost of any cyber you have had removed. Some GM's don't care
what type it is was removed, some say it applies only with similar systems
(wired 1 > wired 2).

That's not actually in the basic SR3 book, but like I said, its a popular
house rule, and WAS cannon in SR2. M&M makes it a bit more complex;
basically, its as above, with no limits on the type of cyber, but the
surgery
costs a bit more and might not work out every time.

-Mongoose
Message no. 5
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: upgrading characters
Date: Tue Jun 19 05:10:01 2001
On Mon, 18 Jun 2001, Gurth wrote:

> You can have the old 'ware removed, which leaves an "Essence hole" equal to
> its Essence cost; any new cyberware first fills that hole before costing
> you actual Essence. So, if you had that 1 Essence item removed so you could
> put in an upgraded version costing 3 Essence, you're only actually losing 3
> - 1 = 2 Essence (beyond what you had already lost, of course). All this
> assuming the cyberware _can_ be removed, of course. Also, you and your GM
> would do well to carefully read the surgery rules in Man & Machine, because
> those can modify things somewhat.
>

This reminds me, how do people treat mages that have gone the way of the
burnout, but havent burned out completely - if they remove the cyberwear,
do they get essence back, or are they gone for good?

cheers,


John
--
jconstable@*****.com
"Stupidity got us into this, why can't it get us out?" - John Valeu
Message no. 6
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Lady Jestyr)
Subject: upgrading characters
Date: Tue Jun 19 05:20:00 2001
At 09:10 AM 19/06/01 +0000, John@*****.co.uk wrote:
>
>This reminds me, how do people treat mages that have gone the way of the
>burnout, but havent burned out completely - if they remove the cyberwear,
>do they get essence back, or are they gone for good?

Still gone for good, just like anyone else.

Lady Jestyr
"If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be
a horrible warning." - Catherine Aird

* jestyr@*****.com | URL: http://staff.dumpshock.com/jestyr *
Message no. 7
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Dennis)
Subject: upgrading characters
Date: Tue Jun 19 05:25:01 2001
-----Original Message-----
> This reminds me, how do people treat mages that have gone the way of the
> burnout, but havent burned out completely - if they remove the cyberwear,
> do they get essence back, or are they gone for good?

I don't think you should allow for Essence to return, not even gradually. I
say, treat it like he betrayed his talent by taking cyberware, treat his
talent as vindictive and stubborn. You pay the price for your "mistake". I
would rule that taking cyberware out creates "gaps" of essence that can be
filled up with other pieces of cyberware.

DV8

"Abashed the Devil stood,...and felt how awful Goodness,..."
- John Milton, Paradise Lost
Message no. 8
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Keith Duthie)
Subject: upgrading characters
Date: Tue Jun 19 07:30:00 2001
On Tue, 19 Jun 2001 John@*****.co.uk wrote:

> This reminds me, how do people treat mages that have gone the way of the
> burnout, but havent burned out completely - if they remove the cyberwear,
> do they get essence back, or are they gone for good?

It's very simple for a mage to regain essence. All they have to do is
become a vampire...

As to regaining it by removing cyberware, you have /got/ to be kidding...
--
Understanding is a three edged sword. Do you *want* to get the point?
http://www.albatross.co.nz/~psycho/ O- -><-
Standard disclaimer: Opinions expressed in this message are unlikely to
be mine, let alone anybody elses...
Message no. 9
From: shadowrn@*********.com (kawaii)
Subject: upgrading characters
Date: Tue Jun 19 08:35:00 2001
----- Original Message -----
From: <John@*****.co.uk>
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 5:10 AM


> This reminds me, how do people treat mages that have gone the way of the
> burnout, but havent burned out completely - if they remove the cyberwear,
> do they get essence back, or are they gone for good?
>
> cheers,
>
>
> John

Once the essence is gone, it is gone, even if it is removed later. If a mage
puts in wired 2, and then pulls it out, he has an essence hole of 2 points,
which he can use for other cyberware without losing further essence.

That's how the mainbook rules work, I think.. Unless this is some demented
house rule that I've been playing with for so long, it seems like a mainbook
rule. =P

Ever lovable and always scrappy,
kawaii
Message no. 10
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Wavy Davy)
Subject: upgrading characters
Date: Tue Jun 19 09:05:01 2001
On Tue, 19 Jun 2001, kawaii wrote:

> Once the essence is gone, it is gone, even if it is removed later. If a mage
> puts in wired 2, and then pulls it out, he has an essence hole of 2 points,
> which he can use for other cyberware without losing further essence.
>
> That's how the mainbook rules work, I think.. Unless this is some demented
> house rule that I've been playing with for so long, it seems like a mainbook
> rule. =P

IIRC, M&M surgery rules suggest you have to have at least one postive
option, Essence Hole (=> 4+ successes on surgery test), in order for a new
implant to occupy the essence 'space' of a removed implant. Same goes
for Bio Index. I think SR3 just states that it's just plain gone :)

M&M also has a rule (again from memory :) that allows you to
just pay the difference in nuyen and essence to upgrade cybernetic implants,
though I'm not sure the same goes for bioware.

BTW, does people actually use the surgery rules in M&M? With a decent
doctor with good cyberware and equipment and karma re-rolls, you could quite
easily reduce essence/bio index to v. little....


--
Wavy Davy (who shares wins)
...Somebody told me it was frightening how much topsoil we are losing each
year, but I told that story around the campfire and nobody got scared.
Message no. 11
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Graht)
Subject: upgrading characters
Date: Tue Jun 19 10:30:01 2001
At 09:10 AM 6/19/2001 +0000, John@*****.co.uk wrote:

>This reminds me, how do people treat mages that have gone the way of the
>burnout, but havent burned out completely - if they remove the cyberwear,
>do they get essence back, or are they gone for good?

Per the rules it's gone for good.

However, if character in my game wants to restore an essence hole I make an
"allowance".

The character has to do the research to learn how to restore their essence
and basically it becomes the basis for a major adventure as restoring lost
essence requires some major mojo.

Unlike typical adventures where the PCs will succeed as long as they don't
screw things up horribly, restoring essence is my no means a given. I.e.,
the adventure would be very, very challenging and may result in failure.

To Life,
-Graht
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader II
--
Message no. 12
From: shadowrn@*********.com (M.S. "Herc" Bobroff)
Subject: upgrading characters
Date: Tue Jun 19 10:40:04 2001
----- Original Message -----
From: "kawaii" <trunks@********.org>

> > This reminds me, how do people treat mages that have gone the way of the
> > burnout, but havent burned out completely - if they remove the
cyberwear,
> > do they get essence back, or are they gone for good?
> >
> > cheers,
> >
> >
> > John
>
> Once the essence is gone, it is gone, even if it is removed later. If a
mage
> puts in wired 2, and then pulls it out, he has an essence hole of 2
points,
> which he can use for other cyberware without losing further essence.
>
> That's how the mainbook rules work, I think.. Unless this is some demented
> house rule that I've been playing with for so long, it seems like a
mainbook
> rule. =P

*nod* When it comes to the rules themselves, regaining Essence is just not
mentioned.

Note, I did not say impossible, as with magic and -Desire- anything is
possible.

If you wanted something rules-ish for the purposes of regaining lost
Essence. Put the (n)pc through living hell to get it. Consider each point,
and every set of partial points as something along the lines of a 'deed'
ordeal. It is not that the (n)pc needs to perform huge tasks, they have to
be tasks that reflect the (n)pc going through the process of reacquainting
(sic) himself with himself, what he (I am going to use this term
generically, :}) likes to do, what he enjoys doing, his friends, his work,
and all of the things that make up the sum total of the (n)pc. And assign a
karmic cost to this task as well (don't make it cheap).

-Mike B.
Message no. 13
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Steven Ratkovich)
Subject: upgrading characters
Date: Tue Jun 19 11:00:01 2001
>>> Graht <davidb@***.100.100.99> 06/19/01 09:36AM >>>
At 09:10 AM 6/19/2001 +0000, John@*****.co.uk wrote:
Unlike typical adventures where the PCs will succeed as long as they don't
screw things up horribly, restoring essence is my no means a given. I.e.,
the adventure would be very, very challenging and may result in failure.
<<<<<

God, this stupid thing doesn't use reply tabs to note quoted text, and it expects me to
put my replies BEFORE the message... Stupid POS... No wonder the kids today all screw
that up so badly...

Anyways, a couple things...

First off, I don't allow mages to get essance back in any form, and I always try to
discourage a mage character from getting it in the first place. After all, its supposed
to be a major change and really muck with the mojo... <shrug> It happens from time
to time, and all players want the edge cyber can give them, but...

However, there is one way to do it, if you allow it as a GM... Cloning. They can't make
a fully functional clone yet, even in SR, but they can easily reproduce body parts. It
would stand to reason that they could reproduce an entire BODY easily enough. Now, I'm
not saying this should be a normal, or cheap, or easy solution. But... Geta clonal body
and through a major magic ritual (and possibly requiring the possession metamagic ability
as well) zap from one bod to the other. The other body will have full essance :]

As I said, this should be used sparingly and should be something you put your players
through hell to accompish, and even then, it might not work. But, for a few million cred,
some karma, and a month's worth of game adventures, it may just work :]

2) this has nothing to do with the original coment, but rather to do with something Graht
said... Man, I LOVE you guys, and I've missed you all horribly :] (And no, i don't want
your Bud Light :)).

I got into it with someone on the Forums over Gm styles... First I got called a bastard
GM that must be no fun to play with cause I'll willingly flub dice rolls or dick over a
player for the sake of the adventure or storyline, then got called a wussy GM when I
pointed out that generally, the PCs will always win in the end, even if I put them through
hell (What fun is it if they know they're gonna win)... <sigh>

Anyways, good to be home :]

Bull


--
The Best Ork Decker You've Never Met!
http://bull.dumpshock.com
Message no. 14
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: upgrading characters
Date: Tue Jun 19 11:20:01 2001
On Tue, 19 Jun 2001, Graht wrote:

> However, if character in my game wants to restore an essence hole I make an
> "allowance".
>
> The character has to do the research to learn how to restore their essence
> and basically it becomes the basis for a major adventure as restoring lost
> essence requires some major mojo.
>
> Unlike typical adventures where the PCs will succeed as long as they don't
> screw things up horribly, restoring essence is my no means a given. I.e.,
> the adventure would be very, very challenging and may result in failure.

this is along the lines of my thoughts, as I was going to cook up an
adventure where the PC who wants to do this is contatced by a "Mr Johnson"
from a "corp" who are willing to help him, they have access to a newly
created Delta lab, they just need some...research (and a poor test subject
who happens to fulfill all the requirements...mage..burnout...wants to
regain essence <evil GM grin> ), from a very well secured lab in
Aztlan...this research will turn out to be Cybermancy, which will either:

a. provide the info they need to do the esence rebuild (were talking
major magic rituals, astral quests and lots of nuyen).
b. turn him into a cyberzombie.

I'm not sure which yet....

--
jconstable@*****.com
"Stupidity got us into this, why can't it get us out?" - John Valeu
Message no. 15
From: shadowrn@*********.com (M.S. "Herc" Bobroff)
Subject: upgrading characters
Date: Tue Jun 19 13:40:01 2001
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steven Ratkovich" <RatkovSM@*********.com>


>>>However, there is one way to do it, if you allow it as a GM... Cloning.
They can't make a fully functional clone yet, even in SR, but they can
easily reproduce body parts. It would stand to reason that they could
reproduce an entire BODY easily enough. Now, I'm not saying this should be
a normal, or cheap, or easy solution. But... Geta clonal body and through
a major magic ritual (and possibly requiring the possession metamagic
ability as well) zap from one bod to the other. The other body will have
full essance :]<<<

The major ritual you are referring to is Cybermancy, albeit going from one
body to another.

-Mike
Message no. 16
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Steven Ratkovich)
Subject: upgrading characters
Date: Tue Jun 19 14:00:01 2001
>>> "M.S. "Herc" Bobroff"
<airwisp@******************.com> 06/19/01 12:41PM >>>

The major ritual you are referring to is Cybermancy, albeit going from one
body to another.
<<<<

Well, I wasn't really thinking about any specific rituals at all. Something similar to
this was done twice in our od game, when i was playing Bull, but neither was quite this
circumstance. the first time was with helping a mage NPC who had died taking out a wasp
hive in Bug City and come back as a ghost geta new body, the second was when Bull
contracted HMHVV and we cloned him, then did an electronic transfer through the matrix...
Both odd circumstances to be sure...

However it seems that just standard Cybermancy wouldn't really work. The cybermancy
ritual is designed to hold a spirit to a body that no longer can anchor the spirit because
of essance loss. That's not quite the case here...

Agreed, the ritual would probably be related to Cybermancy, but it still would be
something quite different. At the very least, I'd imagine it's something a bit
"gentler" than Cybermancy (Which I always imagine to be a very harsh and brutal
ritual, especially since Blood magic is involved)... This could be seen as something a
little less violent or ugly as standard Cybermancy...

Then again, there's no real basis for any of this in SR anyways :] It's all conjecture
and is ultimately up to the GM what tehy want to do and how they want to do it...
Regardless of how, the one suggestion I'd make is to make it difficult.

Bull




--
The Best Ork Decker You've Never Met!
http://bull.dumpshock.com
Message no. 17
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Sebastian Wiers)
Subject: upgrading characters
Date: Tue Jun 19 20:35:01 2001
>That's how the mainbook rules work, I think.. Unless this is some demented
>house rule that I've been playing with for so long, it seems like a
mainbook
>rule. =P
>
>Ever lovable and always scrappy,
>kawaii

Its nevr ben a main rulebook rule, but it was a rule per the Street Samurai
Catalog. The rule in M&M is sort of in between, partly in an effort to
explain why theres no such option in SR3's basic rules.

-Mongoose
Message no. 18
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Sebastian Wiers)
Subject: upgrading characters
Date: Tue Jun 19 20:35:04 2001
>IIRC, M&M surgery rules suggest you have to have at least one postive
>option, Essence Hole (=> 4+ successes on surgery test), in order for a new
>implant to occupy the essence 'space' of a removed implant. Same goes
>for Bio Index. I think SR3 just states that it's just plain gone :)

Yeah, which is partly why Its not an automatic freebie in M&M.

>M&M also has a rule (again from memory :) that allows you to
>just pay the difference in nuyen and essence to upgrade cybernetic
implants,
>though I'm not sure the same goes for bioware.

Duh, Oh yeah, that is germain to this conversation, ain't it. Logical, too.
Wonder why I didn't think of that. :-) That aplies to ALL cyber that has
actual "levels" that can be upgraded, AFAIK- IE, wired Reflexes, but not
Bone Lacing.

>BTW, does people actually use the surgery rules in M&M? With a decent
>doctor with good cyberware and equipment and karma re-rolls, you could
quite
>easily reduce essence/bio index to v. little....

Depends what you mean by "decent", "good", and
"re-roll>S<". I don't think
its anywhere near easy, and the results are not likely to be as good as
you'd hope. Most of the complaints have run more to the tests being to
HARD, afaik...
And actually, good cyber is a hindrence- for max surgical benefits, you want
to install normal cyber in a deltaclinic (which isn't really worth it, since
stock Delta with no surgical benefits is gonna be better). Also, you can't
get more positive successes than the clinic rating, and you need a Surgical
plan for any postive options- with a lot of options, that can get really
costly / time consuming.

-Mongoose
Message no. 19
From: shadowrn@*********.com (BD)
Subject: upgrading characters
Date: Tue Jun 19 21:05:01 2001
> Its nevr ben a main rulebook rule, but it was a rule per the Street
> Samurai
> Catalog. The rule in M&M is sort of in between, partly in an effort to
> explain why theres no such option in SR3's basic rules.
> -Mongoose


You know, that worries me a bit. Somebody mentioned upgrade books that
may provide expanded and/or alternate rules. I'd really rather see FanPro
supply a replacement rule than give us an expanded rule system to try and
get around the fact that they didn't get the rule quite "right" in the
first place. Not that I have a huge problem with new rules, you see, but
I'd rather get a new (for example) autofire rule than "Optional Expanded
Autofire Rules" that, while better, worked off of the SR3 base rules.

You see what I'm saying? What's so hard about saying, "<Previous
Product> had it wrong, here's a better way?"

====-Boondocker

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Message no. 20
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Rand Ratinac)
Subject: upgrading characters
Date: Tue Jun 19 21:10:01 2001
<snipt!(TM)>
> I got into it with someone on the Forums over Gm
styles... First I got called a bastard GM that must
be no fun to play with cause I'll willingly flub dice
rolls or dick over a player for the sake of the
adventure or storyline, then got called a wussy GM
when I pointed out that generally, the PCs will always
win in the end, even if I put them through hell (What
fun is it if they know they're gonna win)... <sigh>
>
> Anyways, good to be home :]
> Bull

Damn, Bull, you sound just like me.

Let's be bastards-in-arms together! :)

(I prefer that to wusses-in-arms - don't you? ;) )

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

.sig Sauer

If you SMELL what THE DOC' is COOKIN'!!!

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Message no. 21
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Sebastian Wiers)
Subject: upgrading characters
Date: Tue Jun 19 22:50:01 2001
>> Its nevr ben a main rulebook rule, but it was a rule per the Street
>> Samurai
>> Catalog. The rule in M&M is sort of in between, partly in an effort to
>> explain why theres no such option in SR3's basic rules.
>> -Mongoose
>
>
> You know, that worries me a bit. Somebody mentioned upgrade books that
>may provide expanded and/or alternate rules. I'd really rather see FanPro
>supply a replacement rule than give us an expanded rule system to try and
>get around the fact that they didn't get the rule quite "right" in the
>first place. Not that I have a huge problem with new rules, you see, but
>I'd rather get a new (for example) autofire rule than "Optional Expanded
>Autofire Rules" that, while better, worked off of the SR3 base rules.
>
> You see what I'm saying? What's so hard about saying, "<Previous
>Product> had it wrong, here's a better way?"

I see what you are saying, but its not really as big a deal as that. When I
wrote the surgery rules draft, there was NO mandate to not contradict past
rules. None at all. Hell, the proposal included an entirely new test type
not seen anywhere else in SR rules...
All I menat was that It just happend to work neatly (to me, maybe to Mike M
or the playtesters or Editors) that no essence slot was mentioned in the
basic SR3 rules, because you needed a skilled surgeon (and more advanced
rules) to take advantage of the POTENTIAL essence slot.

BTW, the M&M rules don't mention what to do when the essence slot option
fails and the patient would die from essence loss. Small oversite, that,
considering most Samurai getting any serious upgrades face that problem.
Heres two options that seem reasoanble to me-
1) The surgery fails, as if the doctor had rolled no successes. You then
can try again after healing.
2) The essence slot option should actually go BEFORE any negative options on
the procedural list, meaning you might succeed at this one positive option,
and still suffer some negative ones.

You might still want to use #1 in addtion ot #2, in case some fumble fingers
street butcher rolled NO successes on a surgical test. Then again, that
probably WOULD result in patient death, considering the sort of implants /
essence ratings most patients facing that risk have. The M&M surgical draft
didn't include #1, because I'd included (something like) #2...

#2 is actually much closer to how the original surgical rules draft intended
the procedural test to be structured, but #1 is closer to how the SSC had
it.

-Mongoose
Message no. 22
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Steven Ratkovich)
Subject: upgrading characters
Date: Thu Jun 21 08:05:01 2001
>>> Rand Ratinac <docwagon101@*****.com> 06/19/01 08:14PM >>>
<snipt!(TM)>
<<<<<

Be glad you have that "t" in there, cause I have SNIP! Trademarked myself :]

>>>>>Damn, Bull, you sound just like me.
<<<<<

<laugh> Like I siad, it's good to home ;]

>>>>>Let's be bastards-in-arms together! :)
<<<<<

Sounds like a plan to me... :] You can have a membership # in the single digits for the
BGM society :] let's see... I already have... I think 5 reserved, so you're #6 :]

>>>>>(I prefer that to wusses-in-arms - don't you? ;) )
<<<<<

<grin> Certainly

Bull

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Message no. 23
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Rand Ratinac)
Subject: upgrading characters
Date: Thu Jun 21 21:05:01 2001
> Be glad you have that "t" in there, cause I have
SNIP! Trademarked myself :]

That's okay...don't you forget that I also have
Snipples, Snippage, Snippola, BigSnip and BigSNIP
trademarked, though. ;)

> <laugh> Like I siad, it's good to home ;]

Someone break out the brewskis!

> Sounds like a plan to me... :] You can have a
membership # in the single digits for the BGM society
:] let's see... I already have... I think 5
reserved, so you're #6 :]
> Bull

Hmmm...6m, huh? The devil's number...how
appropriate...

;)

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

.sig Sauer

If you SMELL what THE DOC' is COOKIN'!!!

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Message no. 24
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Steven Ratkovich)
Subject: upgrading characters
Date: Fri Jun 22 16:10:01 2001
>>> Rand Ratinac <docwagon101@*****.com> 06/21/01 08:08PM >>>
That's okay...don't you forget that I also have
Snipples, Snippage, Snippola, BigSnip and BigSNIP
trademarked, though. ;)
<<<<

Nice :] They bring in any profits for you? I earn almost enough from SNIP! to buy myself
a sourcebook every 3 years :]

>>>>> <laugh> Like I siad, it's good to home ;]

Someone break out the brewskis!
<<<<

Bushmills for me, please :]

>>>>>Hmmm...6m, huh? The devil's number...how
appropriate...
<<<<<

Hehe... Well, keep in mind that all the good numbers are reserved already too... 666,
777, 42 (Well, that one's retired), 61, 31, 129630745819840-3.3, etc

Bull

--
The Best Ork Decker You've Never Met!
http://bull.dumpshock.com
Message no. 25
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Valeu John EMFA)
Subject: upgrading characters
Date: Fri Jun 22 19:55:00 2001
}}}>>>>>Hmmm...6m, huh? The devil's number...how
appropriate...
<<<<<

}}Hehe... Well, keep in mind that all the good numbers are reserved already
too... 666, 777, 42 (Well, that one's retired), 61, 31,
129630745819840-3.3, etc

}}Bull

OOOH OOOH OOOH Mr. Bull, can I reserve number 593454323.354450^4?

EMFA John Valeu
-AKA- TimeKeeper
"Never correct the spelling of a dyslectic on drugs. It's not nice."
--Mom
Message no. 26
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Kesh)
Subject: upgrading characters
Date: Sat Jun 23 11:45:05 2001
On Sat, 23 Jun 2001 01:55:05 -0800, Valeu John EMFA wrote:

>}}}>>>>>Hmmm...6m, huh? The devil's number...how
>appropriate...
><<<<<
>
>}}Hehe... Well, keep in mind that all the good numbers are reserved already
>too... 666, 777, 42 (Well, that one's retired), 61, 31,
>129630745819840-3.3, etc
>
>}}Bull
>
>OOOH OOOH OOOH Mr. Bull, can I reserve number 593454323.354450^4?
>
>EMFA John Valeu

I've got dibs on Pi. Mmmm.... pi...
Message no. 27
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Socrates Smith)
Subject: upgrading characters
Date: Sat Jun 23 22:15:01 2001
--- Kesh <kesh@***.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 23 Jun 2001 01:55:05 -0800, Valeu John EMFA
> wrote:
>
> >}}}>>>>>Hmmm...6m, huh? The devil's number...how
> >appropriate...
> ><<<<<
> >
> >}}Hehe... Well, keep in mind that all the good
> numbers are reserved already
> >too... 666, 777, 42 (Well, that one's retired),
> 61, 31,
> >129630745819840-3.3, etc
> >
> >}}Bull
> >
> >OOOH OOOH OOOH Mr. Bull, can I reserve number
> 593454323.354450^4?
> >
> >EMFA John Valeu
>
> I've got dibs on Pi. Mmmm.... pi...

I'll take "i" (imaginary number used in real math... I
swear... Learned all about it in trig class in high
school :P )

Socrates Smith


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