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Message no. 1
From: Jon Stoltenberg jjstoltenber@*******.edu
Subject: Vampire Auras??
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 11:10:53 -0500 (CDT)
Hello,

I am starting a campaign and one of the players is a vampire. I am using
my own version of vampire rules but basically based off those on Bull's
website.

My questions though, actually fall into the realm of more mainstream
rules. I looked in SR2 and some of the past critter books and have not yet
found a suitable answer so thought I would post it here to the list.

Here are my questions:
1. Are vampires considered Dual-Natured?

2. If not, how distinguishable are their auras?

3. Would MASKING allow a vampire to then remain unknown (by aura)

That's all I can think of for now, I'm sure I'll think of something else
later.

Thanks

Rabid Dwarf
jjstoltenber@*******.edu
------------------------
Message no. 2
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Vampire Auras??
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 19:21:35 +0200
According to Jon Stoltenberg, at 11:10 on 27 Sep 99, the word on
the street was...

> My questions though, actually fall into the realm of more mainstream
> rules. I looked in SR2 and some of the past critter books and have not yet
> found a suitable answer so thought I would post it here to the list.

Since you mention SRII, I'll take it you're not using SR3 (yet?) and so
stick to the former book for answers.

> Here are my questions:
> 1. Are vampires considered Dual-Natured?

They are not. Dual-natured critters in SRII are indicated with parentheses
around their Essence -- the unicorn, for example, has an Essence of "(9)"
while the vampire has simply "2D6" which means it's not dual-natured.

However, a magically-active vampire could switch to astral perception and
thereby _become_ dual-natured.

> 2. If not, how distinguishable are their auras?

That's up to you as the GM to decide. I myself would make the aura similar
to that of a human, but with differences that are obvious to those who
take more than a passing look at it. With that I mean: anyone who spends
an action to observe the aura would see that this is not a human.

> 3. Would MASKING allow a vampire to then remain unknown (by aura)

That sounds like a good enough idea, yes. It would certainly allow
vampires to remain undetected.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Het is een boek om in het donker te lezen.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 3
From: lomion lomion@*********.escnd1.sdca.home.com
Subject: Vampire Auras??
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 12:48:05 -0700
A
> > 2. If not, how distinguishable are their auras?

You could follow the White Wolf idea...the aura is pale, washed out, not
"alive" like a normal or even magically active beings.


> > 3. Would MASKING allow a vampire to then remain unknown (by aura)

IMHO, yes.
Message no. 4
From: Jon Stoltenberg jjstoltenber@*******.edu
Subject: Vampire Auras??
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 15:18:07 -0500 (CDT)
On Mon, 27 Sep 1999, Gurth wrote:

> Since you mention SRII, I'll take it you're not using SR3 (yet?) and so
> stick to the former book for answers.

Actually the campaign is being run using SR3, but I do not (yet!) own the
SR3 GM screen and accompanied critters book. So I had to use what I had?

Rabid Dwarf
jjstoltenber@******.edu
-----------------------
Message no. 5
From: philippe pelletier philippe.pelletier2@*********.ca
Subject: Vampire Auras??
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 22:05:31 -0400
Yes, the vampire is dual, and yes with masking, you can alter the aura
to appear like a normal human being, or whatever you prefer, but it has
to remain logic. The auras is proally pale, not like a normal being, all
looking at it will find it different, maybe not knowing if it is a
vamp...

For the rules of vamp, i suggest using the variant of the White Wolf
system, but it can easily disrupt a game, and cost even more money.

That was my 2 cents.

Mirage
Message no. 6
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Vampire Auras??
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 19:59:16 -0700 (PDT)
> Yes, the vampire is dual, and yes with masking, you
can alter the aura to appear like a normal human
being, or whatever you prefer, but it has to remain
logic. The auras is proally pale, not like a normal
being, all looking at it will find it different, maybe
not knowing if it is a vamp...
<Snipples(TM)>
> Mirage

I can't speak for 2nd Edition, but I've (FINALLY) just
managed to get a copy of the 3rd Ed GM screen with the
critters book. Gurth is right, Mirage is wrong.
Vampires are NOT dual-natured. Unless there's a typo.
:)

As for masking, of COURSE that can hide a vampire's
nature on the astral. But yes, unless a vampire was
masking, I think it'd certainly be obvious on the
astral what he was - or at least that he's different.
A mage who's bumped into vampires before would
certainly recognise him for what he was. A mage who's
never seen a vampire's aura may only know that it's
"different".

If you don't like the interpretation that a vampire's
aura is significantly different to a human's, then
look at it this way. HMHVV is a DISEASE - a virus, in
fact. Assensing someone can reveal their health -
including any DISEASES they have. So if a mage
assenses a vampire who isn't masking (and gets enough
successes), he'll realise this guy has a REALLY severe
disease/virus. If he gets five successes, you may want
to just say that the mage figures out he's got HMHVV.

*Doc' hides his vampiric nature by masking himself as
Bozo the Clown...*

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

.sig Sauer
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
Message no. 7
From: De Herdt Sven Sven.De.Herdt@***************.be
Subject: Vampire Auras??
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 09:28:16 -0000
> Jon Stoltenberg[SMTP:jjstoltenber@*******.edu] wrote:
>
>I am starting a campaign and one of the players is a vampire. I am using
>my own version of vampire rules but basically based off those on Bull's
>website.

I almost had the same situation, but the player "wisely" (for me as GM it
would have been more difficult) choose not to go ahead with it after talking
to him.

The issue is not really the vampires aura, although he should have some kind
of initiation to mask this, but there are many other issues as well which
could be noticed by others especially by the other team members.

* fi. (considering some critter rules and issues of the SR3 GM screen and of
course IIRC) vampires don't eat "normal" food, which might not be considered
an issue until Mr. J sends you an invitation which includes a more than
decent meal. IMO it would be not only rude, but also suspicous to reject it
as such.
* Another thing is that vampires are really very resilient and
"bulletproof", meaning that they regenerate like hell. In a gun fight this
might become suspicious to other team members if they are unaware of the
fact they have a vampiric team member.
* How far would other team members trust the vampire once they know,
especially since there would be awards available for capturing a vampire
(dead or alive, probably the last would increase your earnings).
* . . .

The point I am trying to make and which I made to my player is that I don't
consider a vampiric character as a long lasting player character, especially
since runners tend to get in the spotlights once so often. At a certain
point in time (the moment the truth came out) the vampire would be either
killed or become hunted. The latter would mean he becomes an NPC and a
vampire out for some revenge (I must say I liked this part of the bargain
since it gave me opportunities as a GM, but alas....)

<snipping>

>Rabid Dwarf
>jjstoltenber@*******.edu

Just my thoughts,
Sven :)
Message no. 8
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Vampire Auras??
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 10:45:24 +0200
According to Jon Stoltenberg, at 15:18 on 27 Sep 99, the word on
the street was...

> > Since you mention SRII, I'll take it you're not using SR3 (yet?) and so
> > stick to the former book for answers.
>
> Actually the campaign is being run using SR3, but I do not (yet!) own the
> SR3 GM screen and accompanied critters book. So I had to use what I had?

Ah, okay. It doesn't actually any difference, except that the notation for
dual-naturedness used in Critters is different: the letter Z indicates a
dual-natured critter (why they didn't use a D, I have no clue...).

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Het is een boek om in het donker te lezen.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 9
From: Jon Stoltenberg jjstoltenber@*******.edu
Subject: Vampire Auras??
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 10:20:20 -0500 (CDT)
On Tue, 28 Sep 1999, De Herdt Sven wrote:

<snip snippity snip>
>
> The point I am trying to make and which I made to my player is that I don't
> consider a vampiric character as a long lasting player character, especially
> since runners tend to get in the spotlights once so often. At a certain
> point in time (the moment the truth came out) the vampire would be either
> killed or become hunted. The latter would mean he becomes an NPC and a
> vampire out for some revenge (I must say I liked this part of the bargain
> since it gave me opportunities as a GM, but alas....)
>
> Just my thoughts,
> Sven :)

Under normal gaming conditions I would most likely agree with you Sven.
But these are not normal conditions. In fact I currently have 2 players in
my game and they will both be playing vampires. I guess you could almost
say I was running a "villians" campaign (sorry, Champions term) but since
runners are not really "good guys" it shouldn't be too different.

If it was with a mixed party, I would have discouraged it as well, but
with only 2 players and both liked the idea I decided to run with it.


Also I am not really running vampires in my campaign as a
"supernatural" critter. They are a biological organism, and HMHVV is
a genetic virus that changes the subjects DNA make-up. So a mage
reading their aura would not sense disease, just something odd. About
the regeneration though, I am changing the rules for vampiric
regeneration, and mabee all regen in my campaign, so they are not so
"invincible" as before. Also all it takes is a phys-ad with a bonded
weapon focus to send them screaming away anyway.

Thanks for the info though! It will help me make up my mind on the
subject.

Rabid Dwarf
jjstoltenber@*******.edu
------------------------
Message no. 10
From: Starrngr@***.com Starrngr@***.com
Subject: Vampire Auras??
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:50:41 EDT
In a message dated 9/28/99 08:29:34 Pacific Daylight Time,
jjstoltenber@*******.edu writes:

> Under normal gaming conditions I would most likely agree with you Sven.
> But these are not normal conditions. In fact I currently have 2 players in
> my game and they will both be playing vampires. I guess you could almost
> say I was running a "villians" campaign (sorry, Champions term) but since
> runners are not really "good guys" it shouldn't be too different.
Message no. 11
From: Starrngr@***.com Starrngr@***.com
Subject: Vampire Auras??
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:56:54 EDT
In a message dated 9/28/99 08:29:34 Pacific Daylight Time,
jjstoltenber@*******.edu writes:

> Under normal gaming conditions I would most likely agree with you Sven.
> But these are not normal conditions. In fact I currently have 2 players in
> my game and they will both be playing vampires. I guess you could almost
> say I was running a "villians" campaign (sorry, Champions term) but since
> runners are not really "good guys" it shouldn't be too different.

OOhh.... You of course do also realise that this group is also a prime
target for something similar to "Blade"... The charecters are vampires who
are also vampire hunters. (For those of you who don't lean twords a
'villians' style campaing.)

Some other things I can see happening: (though one is gone with your changed
regen rules) They get a rep with the J's for B&E's against "impossible"
targets, a J sells them out to vampire hunters, etc...

Sounds interesting, I almost wish I could get into that game RD. Of course,
I would probobly drive the other players up the wall cause I would be the
type that goes out hunting "bad" vampires on my days off...
Message no. 12
From: philippe pelletier philippe.pelletier2@*********.ca
Subject: Vampire Auras??
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 18:46:36 -0400
Yup, my wrong.

Vampires are not dual, but Nosferatu are, a little mistake.

Mirage

Rand Ratinac a écrit:

> > Yes, the vampire is dual, and yes with masking, you
> can alter the aura to appear like a normal human
> being, or whatever you prefer, but it has to remain
> logic. The auras is proally pale, not like a normal
> being, all looking at it will find it different, maybe
> not knowing if it is a vamp...
> <Snipples(TM)>
> > Mirage
>
> I can't speak for 2nd Edition, but I've (FINALLY) just
> managed to get a copy of the 3rd Ed GM screen with the
> critters book. Gurth is right, Mirage is wrong.
> Vampires are NOT dual-natured. Unless there's a typo.
> :)
>
> As for masking, of COURSE that can hide a vampire's
> nature on the astral. But yes, unless a vampire was
> masking, I think it'd certainly be obvious on the
> astral what he was - or at least that he's different.
> A mage who's bumped into vampires before would
> certainly recognise him for what he was. A mage who's
> never seen a vampire's aura may only know that it's
> "different".
>
> If you don't like the interpretation that a vampire's
> aura is significantly different to a human's, then
> look at it this way. HMHVV is a DISEASE - a virus, in
> fact. Assensing someone can reveal their health -
> including any DISEASES they have. So if a mage
> assenses a vampire who isn't masking (and gets enough
> successes), he'll realise this guy has a REALLY severe
> disease/virus. If he gets five successes, you may want
> to just say that the mage figures out he's got HMHVV.
>
> *Doc' hides his vampiric nature by masking himself as
> Bozo the Clown...*
>
> ====> Doc'
> (aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)
>
> .sig Sauer
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
Message no. 13
From: Sebastian Wiers m0ng005e@*********.com
Subject: Vampire Auras??
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 02:37:31 -0500
> If you don't like the interpretation that a vampire's
> aura is significantly different to a human's, then
> look at it this way. HMHVV is a DISEASE - a virus, in
> fact. Assensing someone can reveal their health -
> including any DISEASES they have. So if a mage
> assenses a vampire who isn't masking (and gets enough
> successes), he'll realise this guy has a REALLY severe
> disease/virus. If he gets five successes, you may want
> to just say that the mage figures out he's got HMHVV.

They could also see the effect of any paranatural powers; a few succeses
would reveal that a paranormal power was present, and 5 would reveal what
power(s), which would also be pretty revealing. Of course, without any
other info (like having checked for disease), they might not know if those
powers were unusual for a metahuman (say an adept) to have.
In any case, masking those powers might be harder than masking the
general aura; I'd expect "inactive" ones to be masked, but ones that were
being used "actively" would probably be as hard to hide as spells.

Mongoose
Message no. 14
From: Ereskanti@***.com Ereskanti@***.com
Subject: Vampire Auras??
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 11:26:31 EDT
In a message dated 9/29/1999 2:42:33 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
m0ng005e@*********.com writes:

> > If you don't like the interpretation that a vampire's
> > aura is significantly different to a human's, then
> > look at it this way. HMHVV is a DISEASE - a virus, in
> > fact. Assensing someone can reveal their health -
> > including any DISEASES they have. So if a mage
> > assenses a vampire who isn't masking (and gets enough
> > successes), he'll realise this guy has a REALLY severe
> > disease/virus. If he gets five successes, you may want
> > to just say that the mage figures out he's got HMHVV.

And, by the books, you would be correct. HOWEVER, recognizing *which*
disease might be a bit more tricky than that. Connecting the fact that the
disease (the HMHVV in this case) is *directly* responsible for the current
state of the individual and that said *disease* is more than
parasitic/symbiotic in nature could probably be figured out with the advanced
assensing even. *COULD* Not will, just could (kind of a like a maybe).

> They could also see the effect of any paranatural powers; a few
succeses
> would reveal that a paranormal power was present, and 5 would reveal what
> power(s), which would also be pretty revealing. Of course, without any
> other info (like having checked for disease), they might not know if those
> powers were unusual for a metahuman (say an adept) to have.

Actually Sebastian, this is IMO, where direct common sense and general
(meta)human tendency to draw comparison would come into the play of the
action itself.

> In any case, masking those powers might be harder than masking the
> general aura; I'd expect "inactive" ones to be masked, but ones that were
> being used "actively" would probably be as hard to hide as spells.

And this is actually part of the mechanics.

-K
Message no. 15
From: Sebastian Wiers m0ng005e@*********.com
Subject: Vampire Auras??
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 15:31:17 -0500
:> They could also see the effect of any paranatural powers; a few
:succeses
:> would reveal that a paranormal power was present, and 5 would reveal
what
:> power(s), which would also be pretty revealing. Of course, without any
:> other info (like having checked for disease), they might not know if
those
:> powers were unusual for a metahuman (say an adept) to have.
:
:Actually Sebastian, this is IMO, where direct common sense and general
:(meta)human tendency to draw comparison would come into the play of the
:action itself.

I wasn't saying that people couldn't guess what was up, or that players
aren't going to assume that anybody with a screwy aura is a vampire and act
on such. I was just proposing a method whereby a vampire could maybe try to
"pass", even if sombody caught on to his (less obvious) powers. You'd have
to be pretty thick to be checking sombody for paranormal powers, but NOT
suspect somthing funny was going on.
On the other hand, if you see sombody using "essence drain", who has
enhanced attributes- are they a vampire, or are they possesed by a free
blood spirit? You might be UNDER-estimating the danger...

:> In any case, masking those powers might be harder than masking the
:> general aura; I'd expect "inactive" ones to be masked, but ones that
were
:> being used "actively" would probably be as hard to hide as spells.
:
:And this is actually part of the mechanics.


Is it? Cool. I wan't sure how masking affected active powers.

Mongoose

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