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Message no. 1
From: "Jeff Freeman (He Lives! He Lives!)" <WFREEMA3@*****.UA.EDU>
Subject: Vampire mages
Date: Mon, 4 Jul 1994 08:56:25 -0500
Hi All!
It's been ages since I was anything more than a lurker on this list (grad schoo
l can be like that), but finally there's a topic I actually have an opinion on.

Basically, the explanation for vampires being magical despite having once been
at 0 essence is that the 0 magic=mundane applies to HUMANS. The Grimoire and
Shadowtech both refer to the "Magus Factor," a part of one's genetic makeup
that allows one to use magic.

When cyberware is implanted the body's natural "rejection factor" (the same thi
ng that requires kidney transplants to come from a close relative) must be over
come. This usually requires immunosuppressant drugs or techniques. unfortunat
ely, this reduces the body's resistence to disease, often causing the patient
to develop other health problems. Needless to say, in a world where VITAS is
common, this solution is unsatisfactory due to the risk to the patient - esp.
considering that this is "elective surgery. One possible solution is that the
subject's DNA is slightly altered during the operation to cause it to acclimate
to the implanted cyberware. This change in the DNA structure causes essence lo
ss. At a certain point (i.e. 6 essence), the body's genetic code becomes so alt
ered as to cause the organism as a whole to become dysfunctional- the "limit"
for cyberware implantation.

Now, the magus factor in someone's DNA grants incredible power, but at a cost-
one such cost being increased sensitivity to such tampering, to the point that
even the smaller genetic modifications involved with bioware cause them essence
loss. Even cultured bioware causes a slight change to the subject's genetic
code, at least for the organ affected- after all, that's how the stuff is made.

Magic loss to mages due to deadly wound remains the result of "mere" severe
trauma, and of course no essence is lost when magic is reduced in this manner..

So, waht does this have to do with vampires? The HMHVV, like many destructive
viruses, alters the victim's genetic code to reproduce. The victim of HMHVV has
obviously had several changes made to their phyical and mental makeup, as well
as the basics of how their body functions. One such alteration is to the "Magu
s factor," one that toughens it against damage caused by such things as essence
drain and other trauma damage. Therefore, a person inflicted with HMHVV will
not lose magic due to losing essence from essence drain- including the natura
l decline over time in a vampire's essence. Magic loss due to dealdly wounds
(which a vampire will probably survive, anyway) is also no longer a concern.
Magic loss due to cyberware/bioware is unimportant, as the vampire's regenerati
ve functions will eliminate such "threats" to the body's integrity, simultaneou
sly restoring the genetic code "damage" involved with cyberware.

Adventure Idea Alert! GM's take note!
1) Scientists try to isolate the gene-repairing function of HMHVV, in order to
cure essence loss/magic loss (imagine the PC's greed to get access to the
"essence restoring" clinic!). Whether the process actually works, and the side
effects, are left to the GM's own level of sadism.

2) A mage who has become a mundane studies HMHVV and realizes that the only way
to recover his formaer power is to become infected. Or, someone offers a solut
ion to a PC who has become a mundane, without telling them exactly what the sol
ution entails...

Well, that's about it. Sorry it ran kinda long. My opinions are just that, and
I don't claim to be a geneticist, or even play one on TV. Use if you wanna, dis
regard if you don't, flame if you wanna test my delete-key speed.

Ciao for now,
Jeff Freeman
Message no. 2
From: Alexander Borghgraef <Alexander.Borghgraef@***.AC.BE>
Subject: Re: Vampire mages
Date: Mon, 4 Jul 1994 17:58:53 --100
When a newborn vampire has cyberware, does he keep it, or does he consider it tobe an
intrusion, like a bullet, and throws it out when regenerating? (always good for
some gory special effects)
Message no. 3
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Vampire Mages
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 09:32:44 -0400
To begin with, I am talking NPC's, so lets not enter the3 obvious munchie
thread, hmmm?

I have an NPC who was just Infected, and (by my decree) has become a shaman
in the process. My problem is linking Magic with Essence.....Does it go up
and down as essence fluctuates? Is it seperate now?

This is of even more importance if I ever had a Vamp Phys Ad.

-=SwiftOne=-
Message no. 4
From: Dust <rogan@*******.BERGEN.ORG>
Subject: Re: Vampire Mages
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 09:34:56 -0400
On Tue, 27 May 1997, Brett Borger wrote:

> To begin with, I am talking NPC's, so lets not enter the3 obvious munchie
> thread, hmmm?
>
> I have an NPC who was just Infected, and (by my decree) has become a shaman
> in the process. My problem is linking Magic with Essence.....Does it go up
> and down as essence fluctuates? Is it seperate now?
>
> This is of even more importance if I ever had a Vamp Phys Ad.
>
> -=SwiftOne=-
>

I would have to say that the magic rating would stay the same as it was
when the NPC was "uninfected." It would only change when he initiates.
I'm curious what kind of shaman would a vampire be?

Dust

P.S. A vampire physical adept? *shudders with fear*
Message no. 5
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Vampire Mages
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 14:49:51 +0100
|I would have to say that the magic rating would stay the same as it was
|when the NPC was "uninfected." It would only change when he initiates.
|I'm curious what kind of shaman would a vampire be?

What else????

A BAT SHAMAN of course!

|Dust
|
|P.S. A vampire physical adept? *shudders with fear*
|

I think in the phys-ads case, it'd be fun to give him powers up to his
maximum essense, so that if they meet him prior to feeding, he's Weaker
than he would be if you met him AFTER feeding....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 6
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Vampire Mages
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 10:05:28 -0400
>I would have to say that the magic rating would stay the same as it was
>when the NPC was "uninfected." It would only change when he initiates.
>I'm curious what kind of shaman would a vampire be?

Oh, assuming he didn't go toxic, any old shaman. I didn't think a shamanic
Vampire was such a arare thing...isn't shamanism higher among the Infected
than among the norms? (i.e, more magically active, tending toward shamanism)

>P.S. A vampire physical adept? *shudders with fear*

EGMG

-=SwiftOne=-
Message no. 7
From: Dust <rogan@*******.BERGEN.ORG>
Subject: Re: Vampire Mages
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 10:04:36 -0400
And exactly what bonuses and disadvantages would a bat shaman get?

Dust
:)
Message no. 8
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Vampire Mages
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 15:18:31 +0100
|
|And exactly what bonuses and disadvantages would a bat shaman get?

Oh, I don't know.....

+2 Detection.
+2 something else....

-2 when working during the day.
(Something like that)....

Work out the spirit side for your self, I've never been good at totem
invention...
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 9
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Vampire Mages
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 11:31:52 EDT
On Tue, 27 May 1997 10:52:40 -0400 Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU> writes:
>>I didn't say it wouldn't work. Actually, it'd be very cool. Come up
>>with the stats for the Bat Totem and post em to the list. Off hand
>>I'd say they would have bonuses for detection spells and summoning
>>mountain spirits.
>
>Would anyone agree with me that caverns could be considered a seperate
>domain, and worthy of a new spirit?

Sounds good to me.

--
-Canthros
And ye shall know the truth, and lobo1@****.com
the truth shall set you free. canthros1@***.com
--John 8:32, KJV
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 10
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Vampire Mages
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 11:31:52 EDT
On Tue, 27 May 1997 10:05:28 -0400 Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU> writes:
>>I would have to say that the magic rating would stay the same as it
>was
>>when the NPC was "uninfected." It would only change when he
>initiates.
>>I'm curious what kind of shaman would a vampire be?
>
>Oh, assuming he didn't go toxic, any old shaman. I didn't think a
shamanic
>Vampire was such a arare thing...isn't shamanism higher among the
Infected
>than among the norms? (i.e, more magically active, tending toward
shamanism)

No, actually I think it's lower, at least for _Vampires_. Wendigos are
shamans, but I don't know about the other forms of Infected.


--
-Canthros
And ye shall know the truth, and lobo1@****.com
the truth shall set you free. canthros1@***.com
--John 8:32, KJV
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 11
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Vampire Mages
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 11:31:52 EDT
On Tue, 27 May 1997 09:32:44 -0400 Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU> writes:
>To begin with, I am talking NPC's, so lets not enter the3 obvious
munchie
>thread, hmmm?
>
>I have an NPC who was just Infected, and (by my decree) has become a
shaman
>in the process. My problem is linking Magic with Essence.....Does it go
up
>and down as essence fluctuates? Is it seperate now?
>
>This is of even more importance if I ever had a Vamp Phys Ad.


I would assume that the Magic Rating fluctuates with the Essence of the
Infected character. I'm not even entirely sure that a vampire could be an
adept, as the book stated that all vampires were latent magicians,
usually mages (so I can live with shamans:). Now, a _Physical_
Magician... >:)

And what if he's Initiated? :):)

--
-Canthros
And ye shall know the truth, and lobo1@****.com
the truth shall set you free. canthros1@***.com
--John 8:32, KJV
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 12
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Vampire Mages
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 16:32:34 GMT
Brett Borger writes

> To begin with, I am talking NPC's, so lets not enter the3 obvious munchie
> thread, hmmm?
>
> I have an NPC who was just Infected, and (by my decree) has become a shaman
> in the process. My problem is linking Magic with Essence.....Does it go up
> and down as essence fluctuates? Is it seperate now?
>
> This is of even more importance if I ever had a Vamp Phys Ad.
>
I believe magic would fluctuate as it is simply essence rounded down,
nothing states otherwise. You might prefer to leave it fixed off a 6
for simplicity though.

Mark
Message no. 13
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Vampire Mages
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 18:05:25 -0700
---Spike wrote:
>
> |I'm curious what kind of shaman would a vampire be?
>
> What else????
>
> A BAT SHAMAN of course!

I also have a vampire NPC I made as a Moon Druid. Work's out quite
well. ;o)

===

@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>

Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/

If in your adventures you happen across the skull of a dragon, turn
and leave that place quickly. Whatever killed the dragon may still be
around.
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
Message no. 14
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Vampire Mages
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 18:15:40 -0700
---Dust wrote:
>
> And exactly what bonuses and disadvantages would a bat shaman get?
>
> Dust
> :)

Bat was in a list of Totems in an old issue of the White Wolf mag.
It's at home right now. I'll give you the issue and specifics when I
get home tonite.

From what I remember Bat starts as a grade zero initiate, but there's
some decreases to attributes as the totem requires you go through a
ritual death and rebirth. Can't remember other advatages/disadvantages
off-hand. I'll have more for you tonite...

===

@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>

Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/

If in your adventures you happen across the skull of a dragon, turn
and leave that place quickly. Whatever killed the dragon may still be
around.
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
Message no. 15
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Vampire Mages
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 19:00:29 -0700
---Brett Borger wrote:
>
> To begin with, I am talking NPC's, so lets not enter the3 obvious
munchie
> thread, hmmm?
>
> I have an NPC who was just Infected, and (by my decree) has become a
shaman
> in the process. My problem is linking Magic with Essence.....Does
it go up
> and down as essence fluctuates? Is it seperate now?

BBB simply states Magic equals Essence (rounded down) so I'd say it
stays the same, and fluctuates according to how well fed the vamp is.

> This is of even more importance if I ever had a Vamp Phys Ad.

You might want to check some rules I hashed out and revamped (pardon
the pun) on Vampires, especially as PC's. I have them posted on my
page, direct URL to the doc is
http://www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/srstuff/vampire.htm

As for physads: in the doc, under character creation I ended up ruling
that as follows:

"A player may choose a magical art as normal, whether full or adept.
Kindred are found to have an affinity for magic. Magicians and
sorcerers are most common among vampires, though some totems have a
call almost suited to the children of the night. Vampires cannot be
physical adepts. Their bodies already pulse with energies alien to the
forces that provide phys-ads with their magic. By some law of
metaphysics the two just wont mix."

Hope this helps.

===

@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>

Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/

If in your adventures you happen across the skull of a dragon, turn
and leave that place quickly. Whatever killed the dragon may still be
around.
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
Message no. 16
From: Ray & Tamara <macey@*******.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Vampire Mages
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 10:41:11 +1000
> To begin with, I am talking NPC's, so lets not enter the3 obvious munchie
> thread, hmmm?
>
> I have an NPC who was just Infected, and (by my decree) has become a
shaman
> in the process. My problem is linking Magic with Essence.....Does it go
up
> and down as essence fluctuates? Is it seperate now?
>

I would say that his magic would start off at whatever rating it would be
if he was still a human/ork/troll whatever when he became a shaman. ie if
he had full essence, then he would have a magic of 6, if he had an essence
of 4.2, then he would have a magic of 4. You may also decide, that as he
loses cyberware etc when he becomes a vamp, then his magic starts off at 6.
Anyway, the only way for him to increase his magic further is to be
initiated, but he can lose magic as his essence goes down. This is not
permanent, and comes back, as soon as he gets more essence.

Ray.

-----------------------------------------------------
| The universe is a big place, and whatever happens,|
| You will not be missed |
-----------------------------------------------------

EMAIL: macey@*******.com.au
Message no. 17
From: "Pulla, Stefanie" <PULLAS@********.MHS.COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: Re: Vampire Mages
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 04:16:13 EDT
Brett wrote:
> To begin with, I am talking NPC's, so lets not enter the3 obvious munchie
> thread, hmmm?

We've actually got a PC, who's infected by an artificial vampire virus.
He isn't very happy about it, and we still try to get the antidote.

> I have an NPC who was just Infected, and (by my decree) has become a
shaman
> in the process. My problem is linking Magic with Essence.....Does it go
up
> and down as essence fluctuates? Is it seperate now?

> This is of even more importance if I ever had a Vamp Phys Ad.

The magic rating is the max. So your vampire mage/Phys Ad has got full
control of it's powers, even if he's quite "dead" (blood deficiency).
That is because the essence lost isn't permanent.
You just have to drink for recharging. :-)

But I say, if the vampire is held at a low essence level for
a very long time (say in a dungeon), then he should be weak in
magic, too. So his magic rating is dropped.
Then he has feeded, he'll be ok again, quite instantly. ;->>

Stefanie aka Banshee

GCv3.1 GAT/G! d++(---) h+++ au+ C+$>++++ U---
W+ N+ w+ o-- M- !PS !PE Y-- PGP- t+ 5++ X+ R+++
tv- b++(+++)@ D+ e+++ x?
Message no. 18
From: Glenn Munro <eazy@*****.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Vampire Mages
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 19:31:57 +1000
At 06:21 PM 27/05/97 -0500, you wrote:

>> To begin with, I am talking NPC's, so lets not enter the3 obvious munchie
>> thread, hmmm?
>
>We've actually got a PC, who's infected by an artificial vampire virus.
>He isn't very happy about it, and we still try to get the antidote.

You can avoid the munchie and artificial by using the "vampire" that exists
today reallife.

There is a virus that explains many of the myths behind vampires (can't
remember the name offhand). The virus affects the ability to carry oxygen
in the bloodstream. This leads to pale white skin. By drinking blood they
can apparantly increase the amount of oxygen the can carry in the blood.
Having extremely pale skin means they burn very easily and rapidly in the
sun giving them an aversion to sunlight. garlic increases the reaction that
breaks down the oxygen in the bloodstream and so is a big no no for these
people. If a person was only just getting by with their blood oxygen levels
eating some garlic could actually kill them.

If you want some more info I can borrow the book I was reading about this
in from a friend of mine. The info is rather general but at least u would
be able to do your own research easier.

Glenn Munro
aka Quickfix
Message no. 19
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Vampire Mages
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 11:54:09 +0100
Spike said on 14:49/27 May 97...

> |I would have to say that the magic rating would stay the same as it was
> |when the NPC was "uninfected." It would only change when he initiates.
> |I'm curious what kind of shaman would a vampire be?
>
> What else????
>
> A BAT SHAMAN of course!

*lightbulb flashing overhead* Awakenings has paranormal animals totems.
Vampires are listed in the "Paraspecies" section of the Critters
Statistics Table in SRII. Add 2 and 2 together, and you get... THE VAMPIRE
TOTEM!

:)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
And everytime it rains...
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 20
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Vampire Mages
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 11:54:09 +0100
Dust said on 10:04/27 May 97...

> And exactly what bonuses and disadvantages would a bat shaman get?

From Aaron Wigleys totem list, +1 die for any spell cast at night, +1 die
to conjure any spirit at night, and suffers from the same day/night
problems as Owl, except that being in a cave negates the daytime penalty.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
And everytime it rains...
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 21
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Vampire Mages
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 12:34:03 +0100
|>From what I remember Bat starts as a grade zero initiate, but there's
|some decreases to attributes as the totem requires you go through a
|ritual death and rebirth.

That's perfect for a vampire....

--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 22
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Vampire Mages
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 11:34:58 GMT
> From: "Spike" <u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk>
> Subject: Re: Vampire Mages
> To: M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk
> Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 16:44:11 +0100 (BST)

> |I believe magic would fluctuate as it is simply essence rounded down,
> |nothing states otherwise. You might prefer to leave it fixed off a 6
> |for simplicity though.
>
> I think the magic fluctuating is a good idea, leading to some interesting
> encounters after he's had a good feed and is stronger than ever....
>
> Force 10 spells anyone????
> --
did you mean only to send this to me?

I agree as i posted to the list by the way.

Yes force 10 spells are nasty, but grade 4 initiate is a much less
troublesome way to achieve that safely or say a rating 4 power focus.

Mark
Message no. 23
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Vampire Mages
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 13:12:30 +0100
|did you mean only to send this to me?

I think it's another attack of the killer reply-to field.
(I automatically just hit reply when sending to the list without checking. I
take it for granted that the list is where it's going... I'll bounce your
reply to the list.....)

|I agree as i posted to the list by the way.
|
|Yes force 10 spells are nasty, but grade 4 initiate is a much less
|troublesome way to achieve that safely or say a rating 4 power focus.

But for a Vampire, it makes for an interesting situation. Get him before he
feeds, and he's easier.....
Besides, there's nothing stopping him from initiating as well, is there?
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 24
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Vampire Mages
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 14:12:16 GMT
Spike writes

> I think it's another attack of the killer reply-to field.
> (I automatically just hit reply when sending to the list without checking. I
> take it for granted that the list is where it's going... I'll bounce your
> reply to the list.....)
>
yes, why i reset the field my mailer replies to to ont that i find
works all the time. This solution varies with email programme of
course. As i se email for things more important to the rest of this
world than the list though i am not changing my setup to suit the
list at the risk of errors in outgoing mail to other destinations.

> |I agree as i posted to the list by the way.
> |
> |Yes force 10 spells are nasty, but grade 4 initiate is a much less
> |troublesome way to achieve that safely or say a rating 4 power focus.
>
> But for a Vampire, it makes for an interesting situation. Get him before he
> feeds, and he's easier.....
Yes. If you can set it up right it gives the PC's an incentive not to
spend too long getting things set up.

> Besides, there's nothing stopping him from initiating as well, is there?
> --
Nothing at all, he he he.
Added advantage is that you can then mask the effects of your
vampirisim (the black mark on your arua that the literature notes but
the critter descriptions don't) add a quickened alleviate allergy
sunlight spell and you are laughing! Mask the lot and who is ever to
know what you are.

Mark
Message no. 25
From: Tuvyah@***.COM
Subject: Re: Vampire Mages
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 15:44:09 -0400
My two cents-

I'd say the vampire magician doesn't lose abilities when his essence drops,
but he does lose force. He has all the spells he used to have, but he casts
them at his current magic rating, which varies with his essence. It ain't in
the book, but I think it is the most logical (and interesting, in game terms)
way to go. ("We must find him now, while he is weak with hunger!")

As for physads -- vampires are already so powerful, and the essence and body
contact is so integral to a physad, I'd almost be ready (as a GM) to rule
that vampires don't become physads, even if they were before the
transformation. The body they knew is gone, transformed by the HMVV. They may
still be magical, of course....

Smilin' Ted
"...who knows why he's smilin'."
Message no. 26
From: David Buehrer dbuehrer@******.carl.org
Subject: Vampire mages
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 07:24:22 -0700 (MST)
Michael Fitzpatrick wrote:
/
/ Also along those lines, what if a mage becomes a vampire. Seeing as the
/ Magic rating is ties to Essence, would the mages magic be perminatly
/ gone, or could it return over time?

I would suggest doing the following.

List the mage's Magic as: Magic 6(E) (this assumes the mage's Magic was
at 6 to start with). Their base Magic rating stays the same and is
refered to to determine whether the mage can cast spells. Their active
Magic rating is equal to their Essance, which is used to determine such
things as whether or not a spell causes stun or physical drain, their
available magic pool, etc.

Physads refer to their base Magic rating to determine the number of
power points available for PA powers. I can't recal off hand if PAs
apply thier Magic to spell pool or spell defense, and whatnot. If so
then they would use their active Magic rating (equal to Essence).

If a vampire mage initiates then their level of initiation is added to
their base Magic, and points added in this manner are applied to
Initiate abilities. But their active Magic rating is still equal to
their Essence and is unaffected by their initiative level. If a
vampire mage is a level 6 Initiate and their Essence is at 3, then his
Magic would be 12(3). If he casts any spells with a force greater than
3 he takes physical damage from Drain. And his magic pool and whatnot
are calculated using the active rating of 3.

IMHO the downside of being a vampire should outweigh the benefits, and
if you let a vampire mage add his initiate level to his "active" Magic,
then it becomes imbalanced and the character revels in being a
vampire. I prefer the reaction, "Regeneration, awesome! Variable
Magic, eh, I can take or leave it. I don't get to add my Initiate
level to my Magic?! Um, okay, this bites. I mean, the regeneration is
cool and all, but I spent a lot of karma to become an initiate. I'm
gonna start calling my contacts and try to find a cure."

-David B.
--
"Earn what you have been given."
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