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Message no. 1
From: The Gregory Family <wvyc@**.NET.AU>
Subject: Variable Staging (Was "Old Age Runners")
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 06:54:10 -0400
At 12:38 7/05/98 +0100, Gurth wrote:
>> Ah, SR1 and autosuccesses and variable staging. Hey, I bet the kiddies
>> haven't ever heard of 3L1 or 5D4 damage codes, eh? Now THAT
>>complicated combat.

[snip]

>It disappointed me when I looked at the damage rules in SRII... I _liked_
>the variable staging, it gave weapons slightly more ways in which to be
>different, and my experience is that it didn't make combat slower than in
>second edition. With either you have to divide the successes by something
>and then stage up or down accordingly, it's just that the number varies
>instead of being a fixed 2.

I liked the old rules better as well, for a bundle of reasons. Matter of
fact, we still use the three-part variable staging rules in our campaign.
Anyone else out there been faithful to the ole first ed. rules? =)

Cheers.
Tauri.
Message no. 2
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Variable Staging (Was "Old Age Runners")
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 13:49:52 +0100
And verily, did The Gregory Family hastily scribble thusly...
|I liked the old rules better as well, for a bundle of reasons. Matter of
|fact, we still use the three-part variable staging rules in our campaign.
|Anyone else out there been faithful to the ole first ed. rules? =)

Yup....
Me for one.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
Message no. 3
From: Fade <runefo@***.UIO.NO>
Subject: Re: Variable Staging (Was "Old Age Runners")
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 16:05:57 +0000
>
> At 12:38 7/05/98 +0100, Gurth wrote:
> >> Ah, SR1 and autosuccesses and variable staging. Hey, I bet the kiddies
> >> haven't ever heard of 3L1 or 5D4 damage codes, eh? Now THAT
> >>complicated combat.

Heh heh heh.. I always like pro assassins using those 3L1 guns.
They threw enough dice at you that they always got .. about 3.. more
successes than the defender. Armor reducing power was a good idea,
though, rather than automatic resistance successes.
(Heretic, I know. I'm not *THAT* old, just 26.).

--
Fade

And the Prince of Lies said:
"To reign is worth ambition, though in Hell:
Better to reign in hell than to serve in heaven."
-John Milton, Paradise Lost
Message no. 4
From: Lander Williams <lander@****.WAVE.CA>
Subject: Re: Variable Staging (Was "Old Age Runners")
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 12:40:03 -0600
>I liked the old rules better as well, for a bundle of reasons. Matter of
>fact, we still use the three-part variable staging rules in our campaign.
>Anyone else out there been faithful to the ole first ed. rules? =)
>

im ashamed to admit ive never even SEEN SR1.. so i dont know what the
old rule were.. if i knew them, i could comment <And possibly even
convert, if i liked them better>
Message no. 5
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Variable Staging (Was "Old Age Runners")
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 20:52:44 +0100
Fade said on 16:05/ 7 May 98...

> Heh heh heh.. I always like pro assassins using those 3L1 guns.
> They threw enough dice at you that they always got .. about 3.. more
> successes than the defender.

Yes, the low Staging actually made such guns semi-useful. In SRII anyone
stupid enough to bring a 4L weapon to a firefight where the target wears
armor deserves to get shot...

> Armor reducing power was a good idea, though, rather than automatic
> resistance successes. (Heretic, I know. I'm not *THAT* old, just 26.).

A combination of the two would work very well, I think -- keep the revised
Power Levels of SRII and the way armor works, but add in the Staging rules
of SR1.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
You're gonna like it, but not a lot.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

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Message no. 6
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Variable Staging (Was "Old Age Runners")
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 15:08:01 EDT
In a message dated 5/7/98 1:53:05 PM US Eastern Standard Time, gurth@******.NL
writes:

> > Armor reducing power was a good idea, though, rather than automatic
> > resistance successes. (Heretic, I know. I'm not *THAT* old, just 26.).
>
> A combination of the two would work very well, I think -- keep the revised
> Power Levels of SRII and the way armor works, but add in the Staging rules
> of SR1.
>
I've been thinking about doing this for a while, or at least trying to
convince Mike to do it. But, I think we'd be doubly nasty and keep the SRII
Power Levels for weapons, but bring back the SRI damage stagings...(g)

-K
Message no. 7
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: Variable Staging (Was "Old Age Runners")
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 15:49:06 -0400
Gurth wrote:
>> Armor reducing power was a good idea, though, rather than automatic
>> resistance successes. (Heretic, I know. I'm not *THAT* old, just 26.).
>
>A combination of the two would work very well, I think -- keep the revised
>Power Levels of SRII and the way armor works, but add in the Staging rules
>of SR1.

This sounds like a net.project - converting all the new goodies over
to SR1 damage codes...

James Ojaste
Message no. 8
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Variable Staging (Was "Old Age Runners")
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 16:07:21 -0500
----------
> From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
> > Armor reducing power was a good idea, though, rather than automatic
> > resistance successes. (Heretic, I know. I'm not *THAT* old, just 26.).
>
> A combination of the two would work very well, I think -- keep the
revised
> Power Levels of SRII and the way armor works, but add in the Staging
rules
> of SR1.

I agree (and I'm not even an old guy <g>). After all, which bullet is
going to be easier to shrug off: the hold out pistol bullet the size of
the last joint of my pinky, or the coke-can sized shell of a Panther
Cannon? Sure, that's partially damage code, but its a lot easier to miss
vital organs with a tiny shell that leaves a small hole than a huge shell
that leaves a hole the size of a basketball.

***************
Rev. Mark Hall, Bardagh
"Death by a sword lasts but a moment, but a bard's scorn lasts
forever"
aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars, PML FAQ Cop
"Discretion is the better part of honor.... and innuendo the
better part of humor."
aka Ellegon, Working at making Cannon canon
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, mortal, for you are crunchy
and good with ketchup."
--------[Geek Code Block]-----------
GED/GSS d- s++:+ a-- C++ W w+ PS+.5 PE- Y+ t+
5+ X+ R*+.5 !tv+ b+.5 DI+ D- G e h !r-- !y+
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Message no. 9
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Variable Staging (Was "Old Age Runners")
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 23:27:37 +0100
And verily, did Ojaste,James [NCR] hastily scribble thusly...
|
|Gurth wrote:
|>> Armor reducing power was a good idea, though, rather than automatic
|>> resistance successes. (Heretic, I know. I'm not *THAT* old, just 26.).
|>
|>A combination of the two would work very well, I think -- keep the revised
|>Power Levels of SRII and the way armor works, but add in the Staging rules
|>of SR1.
|
|This sounds like a net.project - converting all the new goodies over
|to SR1 damage codes...

YES!

Please?
>*wimper*<

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
Message no. 10
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: Variable Staging (Was "Old Age Runners")
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 19:26:10 -0600
At 23:27 07/05/98 +0100, you wrote:

>|This sounds like a net.project - converting all the new goodies over
>|to SR1 damage codes...
>
>YES!
>
>Please?
>>*wimper*<

Might want to wait for SR3 to come out before you do this. I know I'm
waiting for SR3 before trying any of the GURPS conversions I've been
meaning to try.

Course, I won't have TIME to do those conversions until then. <insert busy
busy busy grin>

-Adam
-
http://www.interware.it/users/adamj \ fro@***.ab.ca \ ICQ# 2350330
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ FreeRPG Webring \ TSS Productions
The Shadowrun Supplemental \ SR Archive Co-Maintainer \ RPGA Reviwer
Message no. 11
From: Airwasp <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Variable Staging (Was "Old Age Runners")
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 01:54:23 EDT
In a message dated 5/7/98 7:10:38 PM !!!First Boot!!!, Ereskanti@***.COM
writes:

> > > Armor reducing power was a good idea, though, rather than automatic
> > > resistance successes. (Heretic, I know. I'm not *THAT* old, just 26.).
> >
> > A combination of the two would work very well, I think -- keep the
> revised
> > Power Levels of SRII and the way armor works, but add in the Staging
> rules
> > of SR1.
> >
> I've been thinking about doing this for a while, or at least trying to
> convince Mike to do it. But, I think we'd be doubly nasty and keep the
SRII
> Power Levels for weapons, but bring back the SRI damage stagings...(g)

Keith, chat with some on this topic, as I have never played SR1, nor really
looked in depthly at the SR1-BBB.

Mike
Message no. 12
From: Lander Williams <lander@****.WAVE.CA>
Subject: Re: Variable Staging (Was "Old Age Runners")
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 01:32:57 -0600
>|This sounds like a net.project - converting all the new goodies over
>|to SR1 damage codes...
>
>YES!
>
>Please?


here is another 'Please' for those of us that like the sound of variable
staging but dont have access to SR1 <g>
Message no. 13
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Variable Staging (Was "Old Age Runners")
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 11:51:02 +0100
Ereskanti said on 15:08/ 7 May 98...

> > A combination of the two would work very well, I think -- keep the revised
> > Power Levels of SRII and the way armor works, but add in the Staging rules
> > of SR1.
> >
> I've been thinking about doing this for a while, or at least trying to
> convince Mike to do it. But, I think we'd be doubly nasty and keep the SRII
> Power Levels for weapons, but bring back the SRI damage stagings...(g)

Now I know I sometimes read half a post before replying to it and thereby
go off in a completely different direction, but didn't you just say the
exact same thing I did? (Except for trying to convince Mike -- I just
wrote it up in a PW book :)

I think I'll suggest this to my group tonight, as we're starting with new
characters it may be a good point to re-introduce variable staging...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
Just passing time.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

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Message no. 14
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Variable Staging (Was "Old Age Runners")
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 11:51:03 +0100
Ojaste,James [NCR] said on 15:49/ 7 May 98...

> >A combination of the two would work very well, I think -- keep the revised
> >Power Levels of SRII and the way armor works, but add in the Staging rules
> >of SR1.
>
> This sounds like a net.project - converting all the new goodies over
> to SR1 damage codes...

Already been done a few years ago by yours truly. Check out Paranoid
Animals of North America on my page. No, I didn't go to the trouble of
converting each and every piece of equipment individually, but have given
general rules -- for example, all assault rifles in SR1 had a Staging of
3, so why list every one of them with an 8M3 damage code?

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
Just passing time.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 15
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Variable Staging (Was "Old Age Runners")
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 13:54:57 +0100
And verily, did Lander Williams hastily scribble thusly...
|
|>|This sounds like a net.project - converting all the new goodies over
|>|to SR1 damage codes...
|>
|>YES!
|>
|>Please?
|
|
|here is another 'Please' for those of us that like the sound of variable
|staging but dont have access to SR1 <g>
|

I *have* got SR1, but everything after SR2 came out has SR2 codes.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
Message no. 16
From: Tauri Gregory <wvyc@**.NET.AU>
Subject: Re: Variable Staging (Was "Old Age Runners")
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 09:14:29 -0400
At 13:54 8/05/98 +0100, you wrote:
>And verily, did Lander Williams hastily scribble thusly...
[snip]
>|here is another 'Please' for those of us that like the sound of variable
>|staging but dont have access to SR1 <g>
>|
>
>I *have* got SR1, but everything after SR2 came out has SR2 codes.

Our campaign, while heavily modified with house rules, is closer to SR1
than SR2. I just converted all the damage codes published in FoF....use
that table as a reference on the rare occasions when I run a FASA-published
module. A little more work for me, but our group much prefers the SR1
system.

Cheers.
Tauri.
Message no. 17
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Variable Staging (Was "Old Age Runners")
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 09:45:54 EDT
In a message dated 5/8/98 4:58:14 AM US Eastern Standard Time, gurth@******.NL
writes:

> Now I know I sometimes read half a post before replying to it and thereby
> go off in a completely different direction, but didn't you just say the
> exact same thing I did? (Except for trying to convince Mike -- I just
> wrote it up in a PW book :)
>
Why yes Gurth, I did...I just thought it needed more backing up :P

-K (who won't admit to being blind just yet :)
Message no. 18
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: Variable Staging (Was "Old Age Runners")
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 11:40:51 -0400
Tauri Gregory wrote:
>>|here is another 'Please' for those of us that like the sound of variable
>>|staging but dont have access to SR1 <g>
>>
>>I *have* got SR1, but everything after SR2 came out has SR2 codes.
>
>Our campaign, while heavily modified with house rules, is closer to SR1
>than SR2. I just converted all the damage codes published in FoF....use
>that table as a reference on the rare occasions when I run a FASA-published
>module. A little more work for me, but our group much prefers the SR1
>system.

Share the wealth! Please post these somewhere - the list, the web,
it doesn't really matter, but it seems like lots of people would
like to see them...

James Ojaste
Message no. 19
From: Alexia Silverstein <alexia_silverstein@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Variable Staging (Was "Old Age Runners")
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 11:45:12 -0700
<snip> Might want to wait for SR3 to come out <snip>
So when approximately will SR3 come out?!?

http://www.sova.net/trish/shadowrun
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @*****.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Message no. 20
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Variable Staging (Was "Old Age Runners")
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 12:48:16 -0600
Alexia Silverstein wrote:
/
/ So when approximately will SR3 come out?!?

They're planning on putting it on the shelves in September. They
want to have a pre-release at GenCon.

-David
--
As your consultant, I'll tell you how to improve your business
processes. I'll show you how a well-designed process can compensate
for your sloth, apathy, and all-around incompetence. But most
important: let's have fun <grin>.
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
Message no. 21
From: Tauri Gregory <wvyc@**.NET.AU>
Subject: Re: Variable Staging (Was "Old Age Runners")
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 19:56:04 -0400
RE: Variable Staging: At 11:40 8/05/98 -0400, you wrote:
>>>|here is another 'Please' for those of us that like the sound of variable
>>>|staging but dont have access to SR1 <g>
>>>
>>>I *have* got SR1, but everything after SR2 came out has SR2 codes.
>>
>>Our campaign, while heavily modified with house rules, is closer to SR1
>>than SR2. I just converted all the damage codes published in FoF....use
>>that table as a reference on the rare occasions when I run a FASA-published
>>module. A little more work for me, but our group much prefers the SR1
>>system.
>
>Share the wealth! Please post these somewhere - the list, the web,
>it doesn't really matter, but it seems like lots of people would
>like to see them...

Hmm. My post was more a suggestion on how to use SR1 damage codes with SR2
products than an offer to post the table *I* actually use. First, I
wouldn't want to step on FASA's toes. Secondly, as Gurth pointed out,
there is a net.book which covered some of the conversions. You could just
go from there.

Gurth also noted (correctly) that there are minor variations only between
weapons within a class. Here's a quick reference (typical members of a
class):

Pistol, Heavy 4M2
Pistol, Light 3M2
Pistol, Hold-out 3L1

Katana (Str)M3
Club (Str+1)M2 STUN
Monofilament Whip 6S4 (!)

Assault Rifle 5M3
Sniper Rifle 6S2
Shotgun 4M3
Sub-MG 5M3
LMG 5S3
MMG 8S4
HMG 12S4
Assault Cannon 10D4


If anyone still wants more information, feel free to drop me a line at
<tauri@**.net.au>. Probably better than clogging up the list.

Cheers.
Tauri.

PS. I also reworked the ammunition rules if anyone is interested. As
someone pointed out already in this thread, they caused a few problems in SR1.
Message no. 22
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Variable Staging (Was "Old Age Runners")
Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 12:45:29 +0100
Alexia Silverstein said on 11:45/ 8 May 98...

> <snip> Might want to wait for SR3 to come out <snip>
> So when approximately will SR3 come out?!?

This year's GenCon is what's been said up until now. General release will
be in September, IIRC.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
Just passing time.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
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Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
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