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Message no. 1
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Steve Collins)
Subject: Various Questions {this is pretty long}
Date: Tue Jun 26 23:40:00 2001
On 6/26/01 8:47 pm, Rand Ratinac said:

>Me again, with more questions...:)
>
>Okay, guys, this time I need to speak with people who
>know about:
>
>1. the US police force and how they operate as far as
>training and recruitment goes (the NYPD to be
>specific);
>

Well there isn't a US Police Force. That is the key. I don't know of a
single Federal regulation on who can and cannot become a Police Officer.
Also because Police Officers are Civil Service Agents there is frequently
a test that one must take to be considered at all, in many places on
these tests certain classes of people get automatic points added to their
scores (ie ex military, minorities, children of former officers, etc.)
then if there are 10 openings the top 10 scores on the current list are
interviewed (and in many cases get the job if there is nothing else wrong
with them).

I'm sure every state has a few rules about who can and cannot become a
Police Officer with some of them even being universal (likely stuff such
as not having a felony conviction) and then every state has some form of
Police Force (Highway Patrol, SBI (State equivalent of FBI), Highway
Patrol) but these are the only Police forces controled by the State in
any fashon.

Then there are the County Sherriffs Ofices, these typically have
Jursdiction in unincorporated areas (ie they are not part of any city or
town) as well as running the Jail systems in many places. There are other
duties that fall to Sherriffs Departments but they vary from place to
place. In some places (mostly the North East) the Sherriffs serve almost
exclusively as agents of the courts and jailers, in others they are the
primary law enforcment arm in the state (mostly the west).

Finally there are the local city and Town Police Forces. These can run
from 2 or 3 cops and 1 Patrol Car in a small town to organizations with
thousands of officers and hundreds of Patrol Cars (ie. NY, LA, Chicago).
Every single one of these cities and towns has different requirements on
who can become a Police Officer and how to do it. In some small towns you
might have to just be known in the community and apply, in others they
might only accept people who have been through the Police Academy of some
larger city, and in others they may have their own training programs.
Most mid sized cities will only hire Police Officers who were Officers
elsewhere or who have graduated either from a Police Academy or college
with a degree in Criminal Justice. Some however have their own apprentice
style training programs. Finally nearly all large cities run their own
Police Training academies and one must graduate from them or have
experience as a Police Officer elsewhere to recieve a job as a Police
officer with that city.

For NYC specifically They run a Police Academy, I cannot find any
specifics on duration of it But I think it is like 6 months to a year in
duration and is sort of a cross between Basic Training and getting an
Associates Degree in Criminal Justice from a Community College. You can
find the requirements for admission here

http://www.ci.nyc.ny.us/html/nypd/html/chfpers/apd.html

The NYPD home page is here

http://www.ci.nyc.ny.us/html/nypd/home.html

>2. the US college system;
>

Um this is sort of a broad question, what specifically do you want to
know about it? Again the key thing to remember is that there is no *US*
wide college system, nothing is standardized. There are several basic
types of Colleges and I'll try to detail them below and see if that
answers your questions.

First there are 2 broad categories Public Colleges and Private Colleges.
Private Schools are private organizations that are frequently operated of
a for profit basis, they tend to be VERY EXPENSIVE and in many cases do
not really provide any higher quality of education than a coresponding
Public College. Public Colleges are owned by a State, are non profin
organizations and are generally relatively cheap for residents of that
state (but can be just as expensive as Private schools for residents of
other states).

Research Universities:These can be either Public or Private although most
state colleges fall in this category (I am including Agricultural
Colleges in here). They primary focus is performing basic scientific
research and even though they can be rather expensive they actually make
most of their money from Corporate and Governmental Research Grants. They
obviously tend to focus on Scientific and Technical Fields and while
their education may be the best in the world in some areas they tend to
actually give substandard Educations because many of their top professors
do not actually teach classes being too busy with their research to get
into the classroom.

Private Examples
MIT
Duke
Syracuse
Carnagie Mellon

Public Examples
UCLA
UC Berkley
Georgia Tech
Ohio State


Liberal Arts Colleges:Again can be either Public or Private although not
many are public, especially not many well known ones, there are also a
significant number that are run by one religous organization or another
(Cathloc Church, Mormon Church, Southern Baptist Convention, etc.). Some
of them still do some basic research, others do not even offer courses in
scientific fields beyond an entry level Biology or Chemestry class. Their
focus tends to be on Business and preparing people for careers in Law,
Medicine, or Teaching Cost and quality runs the gamut from poor and cheap
to as expensive as the most expensive Research University, Public Liberal
Arts Colleges are almost Universially among the cheapest sources of
college degrees with a quality of Education to match. The Schools run by
Religious Organizations tend to be among the more expensive in cost and
educational Quality varies by how doctrinal the school is (Notre Dame and
BYU offer very good educations, Bob Jones and Oral Roberts Universities
tend to be little more than indoctrination centers)


Public Examples
Not a single one I can think of that anyone has ever heard of although
some of the bigger public research Universities also offer pretty good
Liberal Arts Educations.

Private Examples
Harvard
Rutgers
Princeton

Religeous Universities
Notre Dame
Boston College
Brigham Young University
William & Mary
Holy Cross
Bob Jones University


Technical Colleges: These are almost exclusively private, I can't think
of a single publicly owned technical college although I suppose some may
exist. These focus on teaching specific technical skills. Some offer
Degrees, others just offer certifications. Cost depends on the field,
whether it is a degree granting program or certificate granting one, and
the duration of the program and quality of Education is VERY variable as
well (some are actually more of a scam than anything).

Military Colleges: These obviously train students for careers in the
military but also offer degrees in fields other than Military Science in
some cases. There are the 3 Public Military Colleges (West Point,
Annapolis, Air Force Academy) where going to them entails a comittment to
one branch of the service or another, however there are also several
Private military Academies where you can recieve a similar Education
without any Service Requirement.

Community Colleges: These are publicly owned small schools where you can
recieve an associates Degree (2 year degree) in just about any field.
They are cheap and everyone who applies is accepted. They also offer
personal enrichment classes, everything from Karate to Basket Weaving for
small fee's



>3. international finance, esp. governmental,
>international banking and govt. debt management.
>

Um this is hardly my field of expertise although I know a little (note:
VERY LITTTLE) and the area is so vast I wouldn't even know where to
begin, this is the sort of thing that Doctoral Theses are written on.
Could you possibly narrow the question down some? :-)

>These are not going to be simple questions, guys...at
>least, I don't think they are. So if you don't know
>the answer, but can point me in the direction of
>people who might, please do.
>
>I'm demanding, ain't I? :)

No demanding would be threatening to launch Tactical Carpal Weapons at ud
if we did not know the answers. :-)
Message no. 2
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Dan Grabon)
Subject: Various Questions {this is pretty long}
Date: Thu Jun 28 08:00:01 2001
On 6/27/2001 1:50 PM, Steve Collins at einan@*********.net wrote:

>> 2. the US college system;
> Um this is sort of a broad question, what specifically do you want to
> know about it? Again the key thing to remember is that there is no *US*
> wide college system, nothing is standardized. There are several basic
> types of Colleges and I'll try to detail them below and see if that
> answers your questions.

[snips galore]

Hmmm... all good information, but I don't know if I agree with your
categorizations.

Before anything else-- and this is just to clarify for Rand and others--
it's important to note that "college" and "university" do not have the
same
difference in meaning in the US that they do in other countries. Both
colleges and universities can be 4-year (undergraduate) schools offering
bachelor's degrees or higher. The difference is sort of nebulous, but
generally speaking, colleges are smaller, focused on one thing, and
universities are larger, with more diverse programs. In fact a university
can be said to consist of several colleges; a typical university might have
a College of Liberal Arts and a College of Engineering. Universities are
also more likely to have significant graduate school programs.

But "research universities" vs. "liberal arts colleges" is sort of an
odd
distinction, or at least an unbalanced one. Most universities, by their
very nature, offer undergraduates liberal arts and science/engineering
programs while handling research and graduate work. Smaller colleges, on
the other hand, are more likely to specialize in either the sciences or the
humanities. They just don't have the room or resources to handle both.
Furthermore, I think most schools have to balance between undergraduate
education and (money-earning) research, whether it is in the sciences or
humanities. Probably every professor has to deal with the "publish or
perish" dilemma; i.e., if you don't do research, publish articles, and make
yourself (and your school) well-known, you won't be at the school for long.
At our school, it was not uncommon for students' favorite professors to get
passed by when it came to tenure, because while they spent plenty of time in
the classroom (thereby making students happy), they weren't doing as much
research (thereby making the school/department unhappy).

Oh, and by the way, Rutgers is actually the state university of New Jersey,
not a private school. :)

-moose
Message no. 3
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Chris Shaffer)
Subject: Various Questions {this is pretty long}
Date: Thu Jun 28 09:35:00 2001
At 07:02 AM 6/28/2001, you wrote:
>Furthermore, I think most schools have to balance between undergraduate
>education and (money-earning) research, whether it is in the sciences or
>humanities. Probably every professor has to deal with the "publish or
>perish" dilemma; i.e., if you don't do research, publish articles, and make
>yourself (and your school) well-known, you won't be at the school for long.

I have to disagree. Research can bring in some money, and it certainly
increases the prestige of a school, and it it also important for
tenure. However, undergraduate students are the ones who bring in the real
money - the teeming undergraduates pay far more in tuition and fees than
the graduate students do (and many graduate students are more heavily
subsidized by their departments than undergraduates, who tend to get their
financial aid from the state and federal governments). Without a large
undergraduate program, a graduate school will generally not survive (which
is the case for many graduate library programs, like the one I attended).


-----
"She fell in with a bad crowd: the kind of people that have
oscilloscopes and aren't afraid to use them on defenseless
computer peripherals." --Micah Desjardins and Angela Gunn
http://www.seattleweekly.com/features/0039/tech-gunn.shtml
Chris Shaffer chris@*****.net
http://www.uic.edu/~shaffer/
Message no. 4
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Aaron L. Bodoh-Creed)
Subject: Various Questions {this is pretty long}
Date: Thu Jun 28 13:50:02 2001
On Thu, 28 Jun 2001, Chris Shaffer wrote:

> At 07:02 AM 6/28/2001, you wrote:
> >Furthermore, I think most schools have to balance between undergraduate
> >education and (money-earning) research, whether it is in the sciences or
> >humanities. Probably every professor has to deal with the "publish or
> >perish" dilemma; i.e., if you don't do research, publish articles, and make
> >yourself (and your school) well-known, you won't be at the school for long.
>
> I have to disagree. Research can bring in some money, and it certainly
> increases the prestige of a school, and it it also important for
> tenure. However, undergraduate students are the ones who bring in the real
> money - the teeming undergraduates pay far more in tuition and fees than
> the graduate students do (and many graduate students are more heavily
> subsidized by their departments than undergraduates, who tend to get their
> financial aid from the state and federal governments). Without a large
> undergraduate program, a graduate school will generally not survive (which
> is the case for many graduate library programs, like the one I attended).
>
>
In my experience, graduate students (PhD) usually do not have to pay any
tuition and often are subsidized 10-15K per year. This is almost always
the case in "science" fields and usually the case in the liberal
arts. Law and MBA students pay their own way. At the University of
Maryland at least, grant money supports the Physics dept and another
"half" dept. The tuition money from the Physics undergrads goes to fund
other areas of the University. I have been given the impression that many
departments support themselves with government or private grants like
this.

-Aaron

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