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Message no. 1
From: MILLIKEN DAMION A <u9467882@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: VCRs and essence
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 1994 23:15:06 +1000
How come VCRs cost so damn much in essence? All you are doing is jacking in
to your car, the same way a decker jacks into a deck. Deckers don't need 2
to 5 essence worth of datajacks (although that much can easlity be spent on
cranial cyberdecks or headware memory). In the description it mentions MST
(muscular signal transference) and neuro-enhancers. Why do riggers need
these to cybernetically control a vehicle when deckers only need a datajack
to cybernetically control a deck?

Damion
Message no. 2
From: Bryan Prince <WALAB@******.HH.VANDERBILT.EDU>
Subject: Re: VCRs and essence
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 1994 10:03:30 -0600
Damion Writes:
>>How come VCRs cost so d*** much in essence? In the description it mentions MST
(muscular signal transference) and neuro-enhancers. Why do riggers need
these to cybernetically control a vehicle when deckers only need a datajack
to cybernetically control a deck?<<

I can't think of a reason, except that in the RBB riggers get a control
pool. (But wasn't that in answer to the "hacking pool" used by deckers??)

If the wired reflexes and VCR have the same type of neural junctions, why
dont people with WR get a "Reaction Pool" to add to their combat pools??

It all amounts to the same thing, dosen't it???
Bryan Prince
Message no. 3
From: Ivy Ryan <ivyryan@***.ORG>
Subject: Re: VCRs and essence
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 1994 11:34:41 -0700
Here's what I got from Paul Hume and DLoH on GEnie some years ago.

On Mon, 13 Jun 1994, MILLIKEN DAMION A wrote:

> How come VCRs cost so damn much in essence? All you are doing is jacking in
> to your car, the same way a decker jacks into a deck. Deckers don't need 2
> to 5 essence worth of datajacks (although that much can easlity be spent on
> cranial cyberdecks or headware memory). In the description it mentions MST
> (muscular signal transference) and neuro-enhancers. Why do riggers need
> these to cybernetically control a vehicle when deckers only need a datajack
> to cybernetically control a deck?
>
> Damion
>
There are a lot of different automobile manufacturers in the 6th world,
and they don't all build their interfaces the same way. So the complete
interpreter system has to be built into the driver, because it isn't
built into the vehicles. This lets any driver get into any rigged
vehicle and drive it away.

Personally, I think that a universal interpreter would have been worked
out by now, but the writers obviously don't agree.

Ivy
Message no. 4
From: "C. Paul Douglas" <granite@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: VCRs and essence
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 1994 23:14:06 -0400
i


On Mon, 13 Jun 1994, MILLIKEN DAMION A wrote:

> How come VCRs cost so damn much in essence? All you are doing is jacking in
......these to cybernetically control a vehicle when deckers only need a
datajack > to cybernetically control a deck?
>
> Damion
>
It is due to the sensory feed back that is also part of being jacked into
a vehicle..I suggest reading HARDWIRED a novel by Walter Jon Williams
[tor publishing] This book has some of the best discriptions of what it
is to be a rigger I have read.
----------------------------GRANITE
Message no. 5
From: MILLIKEN DAMION A <u9467882@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: VCRs and essence
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 1994 14:56:17 +1000
Ivy writes:
> Here's what I got from Paul Hume and DLoH on GEnie some years ago.
>
> There are a lot of different automobile manufacturers in the 6th world,
> and they don't all build their interfaces the same way. So the complete
> interpreter system has to be built into the driver, because it isn't
> built into the vehicles. This lets any driver get into any rigged
> vehicle and drive it away.

That sound fuqued!! why waste up to 4.8 essence (not to mention a s&%@ load
of money for the cyberware and surgery), instead of a bit of techno-garbage
to standardise your car! There are many manufacturers of decks out there
too, why don't deckers need a whole load of interface material inbuilt? Also
would it not then be possible to have the interface material in "a box",
jack into the box, then jack to box into the car? That would save a lot of
money and essence.

> Personally, I think that a universal interpreter would have been worked
> out by now, but the writers obviously don't agree.

I think so too. Although if we only required that riggers have a datajack,
then any decker or samuari with a datajack and a vehicle skill could become a
rigger. We would loose the "rigger" archetype. I guess that is why the VCR
costs so much essence, so not everyone with a datajack can go and drive a
rigged car.

Damion
Message no. 6
From: MILLIKEN DAMION A <u9467882@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: VCRs and essence
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 1994 15:07:52 +1000
GRANITE writes:
> It is due to the sensory feed back that is also part of being jacked into
> a vehicle..I suggest reading HARDWIRED a novel by Walter Jon Williams
> [tor publishing] This book has some of the best discriptions of what it
> is to be a rigger I have read.

Yeah, sensory feedback is what deckers in the matrix get, and they don't
need 5 essence worth of cyberware.

Damion

PS I have read Hardwired, tho it was a few years back. But Cowboy had reflex
enhancers (like wired reflexes) and just some mind connection thing (like a
datajack), not a whole hoard of cyberware designed to operatte his vehicles.
Message no. 7
From: Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: VCRs and essence
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 1994 10:07:25 -0400
on tue, June 13, the conv went something like so:

> That sound fuqued!! why waste up to 4.8 essence (not to mention a s&%@ load
> of money for the cyberware and surgery), instead of a bit of techno-garbage
> to standardise your car! There are many manufacturers of decks out there
> too, why don't deckers need a whole load of interface material inbuilt? Also
> would it not then be possible to have the interface material in "a box",
> jack into the box, then jack to box into the car? That would save a lot of
> money and essence.
>
> > Personally, I think that a universal interpreter would have been worked
> > out by now, but the writers obviously don't agree.
>
> I think so too. Although if we only required that riggers have a datajack,
> then any decker or samuari with a datajack and a vehicle skill could become a
> rigger. We would loose the "rigger" archetype. I guess that is why the VCR
> costs so much essence, so not everyone with a datajack can go and drive a
> rigged car.
>
> Damion
>
A vehicle control rig is more than just a link to the car's control
systems. It is a complicated piece of hardware that allows the rigger to
feel the car's systems and control the vehicle by thought and minor
bodily movements alone. A twitch of the letf finger to fire that
minigun, a blink of the eye to trigger that sensor-mounted camera. These
motions are small and quick and allow the rigger to accomplish many tasks
at great speed. Better still, the VCR lets the rigger FEEL the vehicle,
to know when he (it) is hungry for fuel, to know when she (it) has been
wounded by weapons fire. That is a serious modification to the body's
central nervous system, much more invasive than the simple datajack.
Message no. 8
From: Ivy Ryan <ivyryan@***.ORG>
Subject: Re: VCRs and essence
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 1994 13:36:04 -0700
VCR's, Essence, and Vehicle control systems.
On this subject, the Datajack control system already does exist. But it
makes as little sense as the VCR. Any car with an Autopilot already has
a drive by wire system in it. Any vehicle, I should say.

So why does it take all that equipment (2cf) to link a datajack to the
autopilot computer? There is a lot that was not thought out when it
comes to vehicles and cybercontrols for them.

I am seriously thinking of making some changes, but I probably won't.
The rulebook is the lingua franca of the game.

Ivy
Message no. 9
From: Ivy Ryan <ivyryan@***.ORG>
Subject: Re: VCRs and essence
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 1994 15:46:44 -0700
re: Marc A. Renouf's comments on how a VCR actually works.

You're correct. The decker gets the same information, though pertaining
to her "Icon / Body" but the deck is doing all the work.

I think the VCR includes something that works like the MPCP of a headware
deck to interpret everything. Sure, it's expensive, but it does give the
Rigger the Control Pool.

I do think that there could be a device built, however, to do the
interpreting just like a deck does for the Netrunner. But the Rigger
would have to have their "deck" along on each run too. By the rules,
they have it built in.

Ivy
Message no. 10
From: MILLIKEN DAMION A <u9467882@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: VCRs and essence
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 13:37:18 +1000
Marc writes:

> A vehicle control rig is more than just a link to the car's control
> systems. It is a complicated piece of hardware that allows the rigger to
> feel the car's systems and control the vehicle by thought and minor
> bodily movements alone. A twitch of the letf finger to fire that
> minigun, a blink of the eye to trigger that sensor-mounted camera. These
> motions are small and quick and allow the rigger to accomplish many tasks
> at great speed. Better still, the VCR lets the rigger FEEL the vehicle,
> to know when he (it) is hungry for fuel, to know when she (it) has been
> wounded by weapons fire. That is a serious modification to the body's
> central nervous system, much more invasive than the simple datajack.

I wouldn't think it would be so serious a mod to the central nervous
system. The datajack taps directly into the brain right, therefore it has
complete access to the entire central nervous sytem already. There would be
no need for indivudual sensors or the like all around the riggers body.
Besides, a decker feels all the same things about his persona, and as i said
before, they don't need a <fill in your own word :-)> load of cyberware for
it.

Damion
Message no. 11
From: MILLIKEN DAMION A <u9467882@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: VCRs and essence
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 14:00:01 +1000
Ivy writes:

> VCR's, Essence, and Vehicle control systems.
> On this subject, the Datajack control system already does exist. But it
> makes as little sense as the VCR. Any car with an Autopilot already has
> a drive by wire system in it. Any vehicle, I should say.
>
> So why does it take all that equipment (2cf) to link a datajack to the
> autopilot computer? There is a lot that was not thought out when it
> comes to vehicles and cybercontrols for them.

If its the translational equipment for converting the neurel signals from
the rigger into commands for the car, then why does the rigger need to have
such stuff installed in his body?

> I am seriously thinking of making some changes, but I probably won't.
> The rulebook is the lingua franca of the game.

If ya do, could ya post 'em for others like me who also feel thet they're
screwed?

Damion
Message no. 12
From: MILLIKEN DAMION A <u9467882@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: VCRs and essence
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 14:11:38 +1000
Ivy writes:

> I think the VCR includes something that works like the MPCP of a headware
> deck to interpret everything. Sure, it's expensive, but it does give the
> Rigger the Control Pool.
>
> I do think that there could be a device built, however, to do the
> interpreting just like a deck does for the Netrunner. But the Rigger
> would have to have their "deck" along on each run too. By the rules,
> they have it built in.

isn't that what the rigger mods to the vehicle do. Interpret the neural (Have
I said this before - my link crashed, I cant remember) signals and convert
them to control commands for the vehicle?

Damion
Message no. 13
From: Rob Moulton <szicepik@****.UCDAVIS.EDU>
Subject: Re: VCRs and essence
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 00:27:54 -0700
Damion wrote:

> Besides, a decker feels all the same things about his persona, and as i said
> before, they don't need a <fill in your own word :-)> load of cyberware for
> it.

Actually I don't believe that a decker can "feel" as much as a rigger
can. Sure, they feel the damage of a black IC attack, but a majority of
the business in the net takes place only with sight. I don't believe
that a decker can feel the net like the rushing of their own blood. I
believe that most of it is like putting on a set of goggles with REALLY
good graphics. Of course, I could be wrong. But I've played a decker
and I have never needed to feel the system, nor been told that "the
temperature drops" or anything of the like. It's all been described as
"you see this" and "you see that" and "you see the AI rip into
shreds as
you blast it with your attack D program" (slight exaggeration). What do
you think?
Message no. 14
From: Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: VCRs and essence
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 09:23:34 -0400
On Tue, 14 Jun 1994, Ivy Ryan wrote:

> VCR's, Essence, and Vehicle control systems.
> On this subject, the Datajack control system already does exist. But it
> makes as little sense as the VCR. Any car with an Autopilot already has
> a drive by wire system in it. Any vehicle, I should say.
>
> So why does it take all that equipment (2cf) to link a datajack to the
> autopilot computer? There is a lot that was not thought out when it
> comes to vehicles and cybercontrols for them.
>
> I am seriously thinking of making some changes, but I probably won't.
> The rulebook is the lingua franca of the game.
>
> Ivy
>
To me, that 2CF of used up space goes to stuff like ASIST sensors all
over the vehicle. A rigger can actually FEEL the status of his vehicle,
which would require sensors that no autopilot would posess because it
wouldn't need them.
Message no. 15
From: MILLIKEN DAMION A <u9467882@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: VCRs and essence
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 1994 00:12:01 +1000
Rob writes:

> Actually I don't believe that a decker can "feel" as much as a rigger
> can. Sure, they feel the damage of a black IC attack, but a majority of
> the business in the net takes place only with sight. I don't believe
> that a decker can feel the net like the rushing of their own blood. I
> believe that most of it is like putting on a set of goggles with REALLY
> good graphics. Of course, I could be wrong. But I've played a decker
> and I have never needed to feel the system, nor been told that "the
> temperature drops" or anything of the like. It's all been described as
> "you see this" and "you see that" and "you see the AI rip
into shreds as
> you blast it with your attack D program" (slight exaggeration). What do
> you think?

could be you GM is lacking in the decriptions of the matrix, as far as I
know simsense gives the full range of senses, and it only requires a
datajack, not a VCR type rig. And also, the experience between jacking into
the net (where you are a very small part of it) and a vehicle (where you are
_it_ , you are all there is) would naturally feel quite different. When you
ride the matrix you have a self contained persone, and things feel like
walking down the street (well, sort of) in the sense that everything else
effects you from the outside. When you are jacked into a vehicle, you
control the entirety of the "virtual world", there are no external influences
acting on you, so you feel all there is to feel, as you control it all, the
feel injecting into the cylinders, the brakes applying, the lot. While in
the matrix, you do not feel everything that goes on around you, as you do
not control most of it, and besides, being aware and feeling everything
there is to feel in the matrix would overwhealm a human, you cannot "sense"
the dataflows of the matrix in the same way as the fuel lines of a vehicel
as you have no control over them. (well, in some cases you might, if you were
in a CPU or the like) even so, you are not fully aware of everything going
on, in a vehicle you are.

Damion
Message no. 16
From: MILLIKEN DAMION A <u9467882@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: VCRs and essence
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 1994 00:44:47 +1000
Marc (who doesn't put his name at the bottom of his posts0 writes:

> To me, that 2CF of used up space goes to stuff like ASIST sensors all
> over the vehicle. A rigger can actually FEEL the status of his vehicle,
> which would require sensors that no autopilot would posess because it
> wouldn't need them.

Yeah, I rather feel that way too, but then if all the assist circutry is in
the vehicle, then whats all the cyberjunk in the rigger?

Damion
Message no. 17
From: Claudia Mohr <claudia@*****.PHYS.ND.EDU>
Subject: Re: VCRs and essence
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 09:46:35 EST
Someone wrote:

<<<
Actually I don't believe that a decker can "feel" as much as a rigger
can. Sure, they feel the damage of a black IC attack, but a majority of
the business in the net takes place only with sight. I don't believe
that a decker can feel the net like the rushing of their own blood. >>>

I disagree. In my opinion a decker is able to feel the matrix as much as
reality. When he is out of the Matrix the sensation may quickly fade but as
long he is in the net - THIS IS REALITY. (See also the third part of Charettes
trilogy and his description of Dodger's trips into the matrix). At least as
long as I'm in the matrix I really feel alive.
Nightdancer
Dancing along electronic paths gives you the thrill.
Message no. 18
From: MILLIKEN DAMION A <u9467882@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: VCRs and essence
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 1994 01:41:18 +1000
Nightdancer writes:

> I disagree. In my opinion a decker is able to feel the matrix as much as
> reality. When he is out of the Matrix the sensation may quickly fade but as
> long he is in the net - THIS IS REALITY. (See also the third part of Charettes
> trilogy and his description of Dodger's trips into the matrix). At least as
> long as I'm in the matrix I really feel alive.

i agree, a decker feels all sensations, the lot, all five plus (for those
really bizzare types) senses are effected. Same for a rigger; this is what
simsense does after all.

Damion
Message no. 19
From: Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: VCRs and essence
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 11:41:09 -0400
On Thu, 16 Jun 1994, MILLIKEN DAMION A wrote:

Marc writes:

> > To me, that 2CF of used up space goes to stuff like ASIST sensors all
> > over the vehicle. A rigger can actually FEEL the status of his vehicle,
> > which would require sensors that no autopilot would posess because it
> > wouldn't need them.
>
> Yeah, I rather feel that way too, but then if all the assist circutry is in
> the vehicle, then whats all the cyberjunk in the rigger?
>
> Damion
>
Control Stuff. Neuromuscular interfaces similar to wired reflexes that
allow the rigger to feel an environment, a body that may be vastly
different than his own. How many wheels do >you< have?

Marc
Message no. 20
From: William Reed <wmreed@*******.COLUMBUS.OH.US>
Subject: Re: VCRs and essence
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 14:53:06 -0400
On Wed, 15 Jun 1994, Rob Moulton wrote:

> Actually I don't believe that a decker can "feel" as much as a rigger
> can. Sure, they feel the damage of a black IC attack, but a majority of
> the business in the net takes place only with sight. I don't believe
> that a decker can feel the net like the rushing of their own blood. I
> believe that most of it is like putting on a set of goggles with REALLY
> good graphics. Of course, I could be wrong. But I've played a decker
> and I have never needed to feel the system, nor been told that "the
> temperature drops" or anything of the like. It's all been described as
> "you see this" and "you see that" and "you see the AI rip
into shreds as
> you blast it with your attack D program" (slight exaggeration). What do
> you think?

In the nets I run I can feel what's around me. But a chummer of mine -
rigger named Hot Rod - has also run the matrix and says that when rigging
he IS the car, not just feeling what's around him. It's the real thing
being zapped into his brain, chummer, not just a computer-generated image
in which he's a part. He said he didn't become the matrix, just how it
felt around him.

I don't know... what the hell can you get from driving, I mean, the matrix
is where the world lives, chummer! No way the two OSs compare. Not to me.

beepbeep,
Node Runner
Message no. 21
From: Ivy Ryan <ivyryan@***.ORG>
Subject: Re: VCRs and essence
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 14:54:13 -0700
On Wed, 15 Jun 1994, MILLIKEN DAMION A wrote:

> Ivy writes:
>
> > VCR's, Essence, and Vehicle control systems.
> > On this subject, the Datajack control system already does exist. But it
>
> If its the translational equipment for converting the neurel signals from
>
> > I am seriously thinking of making some changes, but I probably won't.
>
> If ya do, could ya post 'em for others like me who also feel thet they're
> screwed?
> Damion

OK< what I am doing is writing a system for the game I'm doing. I'll
post a version of it when I get it together. <beta test?>

Ivy
Message no. 22
From: Ivy Ryan <ivyryan@***.ORG>
Subject: Re: VCRs and essence
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 15:44:05 -0700
RE: Temperature, and other physical sensations in the Matrix.

Take a look through Imago (FASA 7309), That sort of thing was very
common in there. It's by Sargent, I think.

But, yes, all physical sensations can appear in the matrix, it's up to
the GM to make it so.

Ivy
Message no. 23
From: MILLIKEN DAMION A <u9467882@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: VCRs and essence
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 1994 11:12:26 +1000
Node Runner (beepbeep) writes:

> In the nets I run I can feel what's around me. But a chummer of mine -
> rigger named Hot Rod - has also run the matrix and says that when rigging
> he IS the car, not just feeling what's around him. It's the real thing
> being zapped into his brain, chummer, not just a computer-generated image
> in which he's a part. He said he didn't become the matrix, just how it
> felt around him.
>
> I don't know... what the hell can you get from driving, I mean, the matrix
> is where the world lives, chummer! No way the two OSs compare. Not to me.

I agree, they _feel_ different, but because of the fact that you are jacking
into a completely different environment, not because you have different
hardware for the signal interpretation.

Damion
Message no. 24
From: MILLIKEN DAMION A <u9467882@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: VCRs and essence
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 1994 11:24:37 +1000
Ivy writes:

> OK< what I am doing is writing a system for the game I'm doing. I'll
> post a version of it when I get it together. <beta test?>

good O, i'll be waiting :-)

Damion
Message no. 25
From: MILLIKEN DAMION A <u9467882@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: VCRs and essence
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 1994 11:30:12 +1000
Ivy writes:

> RE: Temperature, and other physical sensations in the Matrix.
>
> Take a look through Imago (FASA 7309), That sort of thing was very
> common in there. It's by Sargent, I think.
>
> But, yes, all physical sensations can appear in the matrix, it's up to
> the GM to make it so.

yeah, deckers and riggers get all the same sensations, only they feel
different as one is jacked into a car, and one into the matrix. I still cant
see the need for 3 or 4 essense worth of VCR though.

Damion
Message no. 26
From: William Reed <wmreed@*******.COLUMBUS.OH.US>
Subject: Re: VCRs and essence
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 22:19:00 -0400
On Thu, 16 Jun 1994, MILLIKEN DAMION A wrote:

> I agree, they _feel_ different, but because of the fact that you are jacking
> into a completely different environment, not because you have different
> hardware for the signal interpretation.

Hai! That's just it! The totally different environment requires the
different hardware. You are adapting physical surrounds to neural
stimuls, not just creatin the image of physical surroundings.

At least that's how my chummer explained it to me. :-)

C ya
Node Runner
Message no. 27
From: MILLIKEN DAMION A <u9467882@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: VCRs and essence
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 1994 00:19:29 +1000
Node runners (beepbeep) writes;

> > I agree, they _feel_ different, but because of the fact that you are jacking
> > into a completely different environment, not because you have different
> > hardware for the signal interpretation.
>
> Hai! That's just it! The totally different environment requires the
> different hardware. You are adapting physical surrounds to neural
> stimuls, not just creatin the image of physical surroundings.

The way I see ASIST/simsense technology is that it plugs directly into the
brain, and therefore can simulate _any_ sensation that the body can
normally (or not normally in some cases) feel. Therefore there would be no
need for anything different between the hardware required for rigging and the
hardware required for decking. The thing you're jacked into (either the matrix
or the vehicle) send you the appropriate signals, and the datajack pushes
the right neural buttons in your brain. In the case of the vehicle, all the
rigging gear installed in the vehicle translates, and in the case of the
matrix, its the deck. The only problem I can see is the vast cost difference
between a deck and rigging a vehicle. This would seem to favour the theory
that the rigger literally carries his ASIST/simsense translational gear
around with him, in his body, which i feel would not neccessarily be
desireable, due to the prohibitive essense cost. Any sane person would not
want to get 5 essense worth of cyberware installed when they can get away
with 0.2. But then I spose Shadowrunners are not sane people heh? Riggers
would need to be an extrordinary dedicated bunch to sacrifice over 4
unneccessary essense for the "greater good", when they could save on surgery
and monetary costs by not doing it. The other way of looking at it is that
ASIST/simsense technology is not expensive, as evidenced by the
proliferation of cheap, middle cost, and expensive simsense units. All these
perform the same function to the user as the ASIST/simsense technology in
decks, but at a fraction of the cost. A rigger could make use of such a
device, as the riggers gear does not need to handle massive matrix interface
and data flow, not to mention cybercombat, which would require some heavy
processing chips. Therefore the rigging gear for a vehicle would only be
slightly more expensive than a simsense unit, which it is. I favour the
second view myself.

Damion
Message no. 28
From: William Reed <wmreed@*******.COLUMBUS.OH.US>
Subject: Re: VCRs and essence
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 1994 22:46:23 -0400
Could be, chummer. I don't care. I just run the nets trying to stay
ahead of the coyotes! :-)

Node Runner
Message no. 29
From: Jonathan P Martin <devotelyapathetic@****.COM>
Subject: VCR's and Essence
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 17:27:15 -0500
My question boils down to why does a VCR cost so much essence? If all
the input to the vehicle (or deck, or whatever) goes thru your datajack
then why would you send it from your brain, to your muscles, back towards
your brain, then to the datajack and on it's merry way to the vehicle?
It'd be alot quicker to cut out the body interaction part of it.

I understand the background of rigging is that it uses your body as a
kind of 'status gauge' of the vehicle, if your low on gas you feel
hungry, etc. This makes it easier to 'read' as your used to interpreting
signals from your body. But why bother? All that sensory input doesn't
actually have to go to the muscles, all you have to do is have the brain
think it's coming from the muscles. Ditto on the going in the other
direction, all your body has to do is try and flex your legs like you
were running to speed up, your actually legs don't need to be involved.

*IF* it's said the actual legs need to be involved then why don't
enhancements to the body (Reflex recorder, etc.) help when rigging?

There just doesn't seem to be any basis for it being as invasive as say
wired system. BTW any comments of "Game Balance" don't really answer the
question. I want a reason that makes sense in the internal game world's
reality, not the rule system.

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Message no. 30
From: Justin Elliott <justin.elliott@********.OTAGO.AC.NZ>
Subject: Re: VCR's and Essence
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 12:01:02 +1300
>My question boils down to why does a VCR cost so much essence? If all
>the input to the vehicle (or deck, or whatever) goes thru your datajack
>then why would you send it from your brain, to your muscles, back towards
>your brain, then to the datajack and on it's merry way to the vehicle?
>It'd be alot quicker to cut out the body interaction part of it.
>

Ok, may be it doesn't. Could the invasive part of a VCR be supressors. Let
try and explain. A rigger can still act in the "real world" when he is
jacked in (although, be it in a very destracted manner). For this reason
the VCR can't just block and re-route messages from the brain.

So instead the body is implanted with supressors so that when the rigger
accelerates his vehicle the supressors kick in so that the riggers legs
don't start pumping away at top speed. I dear say there would be some way
the VCR could tell what impulses were intended for the vehicle and send
them to the body with a flag that would activate the supressors. I would
also guess that messages for the car would be recognised and effectivly
duplicated, with one set being diverted to the vehicle, and the other
flagged if necesary and "sent" to the body, hence cutting down some of the
responce time (the higher the VCR the better it is at doing this).

Justin.

(p.s. the above is all just off the top of my head with out refering to any
of the books (I'm at work) so please keep flaming to a minimum. I don't
think my work machine has any hardening! )
Message no. 31
From: Jonathan P Martin <devotelyapathetic@****.COM>
Subject: Re: VCR's and Essence
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 18:43:25 -0500
On Thu, 5 Nov 1998 12:01:02 +1300 Justin Elliott
<justin.elliott@********.OTAGO.AC.NZ> writes:
<Snip my own Question>

>Ok, may be it doesn't. Could the invasive part of a VCR be
>supressors. Let
>try and explain. A rigger can still act in the "real world" when he is
>jacked in (although, be it in a very destracted manner). For this
>reason
>the VCR can't just block and re-route messages from the brain.

<Snip generally good ideas about selective suppresors of impulses.>

Not bad, but to do something like this the selective block wouldn't need
to go below the 3rd or so vertabre. If you can replace your chest for
1.5 I still don't see 5 for a VCR-3.

>(p.s. the above is all just off the top of my head with out refering
>to any
>of the books (I'm at work) so please keep flaming to a minimum. I
>don't
>think my work machine has any hardening! )

Again, good start, doesn't answer all of my question.

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Message no. 32
From: Michael vanHulst <Schizi@***.COM>
Subject: Re: VCR's and Essence
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 20:17:26 EST
In a message dated 11/4/98 2:31:00 PM Pacific Standard Time,
devotelyapathetic@****.COM writes:

>
> My question boils down to why does a VCR cost so much essence? If all
> the input to the vehicle (or deck, or whatever) goes thru your datajack
> then why would you send it from your brain, to your muscles, back towards
> your brain, then to the datajack and on it's merry way to the vehicle?
> It'd be alot quicker to cut out the body interaction part of it.
Though I agree, let me try a little explaining of my own;
Compare a VCR to a cyber-deck, both need to send certain signals and
suppress the signals to the body. The DJ basically allows the flow of data
back and forth. The cyberdeck translates for the decker, but for the VCR maybe
they put all the mechanics in the riggers body. (of course they cannot
interface without the vehicle being set up with the rigger box, so.....)
A rigger has all the sensors of the vehicle (or what have you) plus having
to control all the many functions of the vehicle itself. This may mean more
systems such as a dedicated encephalon or such. The neural nature of such
hardware would mean the higher essence loss.
Maybe a lower cost for breadboarding outside of the body?
Message no. 33
From: Josh Munn <barnack@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: VCR's and Essence
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 01:48:38 EST
>My question boils down to why does a VCR cost so much essence? If >all
the input to the vehicle (or deck, or whatever) goes thru your >datajack
then why would you send it from your brain, to your >muscles, back
towards your brain, then to the datajack and on it's >merry way to the
vehicle? It'd be alot quicker to cut out the body >interaction part of
it.
>
>I understand the background of rigging is that it uses your body as >a
kind of 'status gauge' of the vehicle, if your low on gas you feel
>hungry, etc. This makes it easier to 'read' as your used to
>interpreting signals from your body. But why bother? All that
>sensory input doesn't actually have to go to the muscles, all you >have
to do is have the brain think it's coming from the muscles. >Ditto on
the going in the other direction, all your body has to do >is try and
flex your legs like you were running to speed up, your >actually legs
don't need to be involved.
>
>*IF* it's said the actual legs need to be involved then why don't
>enhancements to the body (Reflex recorder, etc.) help when rigging?
>
>There just doesn't seem to be any basis for it being as invasive as
>say wired system. BTW any comments of "Game Balance" don't really
>answer the question. I want a reason that makes sense in the >internal
game world's reality, not the rule system.
>
Try to think of it this way. How much essence does it take to get a
fully functional cranial cyberdeck? Answer: a lot. All the comuputing
power to convert the sensors of the car into senses for your body plus
transmitting your neural controlls. this is a lot of cyberware to put
in ones head.


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Minds are like parachutes - they only function when open.



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Message no. 34
From: Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: VCR's and Essence
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 19:23:19 EST
In a message dated 11/4/98 5:30:57 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
devotelyapathetic@****.COM writes:

> My question boils down to why does a VCR cost so much essence? If all
> the input to the vehicle (or deck, or whatever) goes thru your datajack
> then why would you send it from your brain, to your muscles, back towards
> your brain, then to the datajack and on it's merry way to the vehicle?
> It'd be alot quicker to cut out the body interaction part of it.
>
> I understand the background of rigging is that it uses your body as a
> kind of 'status gauge' of the vehicle, if your low on gas you feel
> hungry, etc. This makes it easier to 'read' as your used to interpreting
> signals from your body. But why bother? All that sensory input doesn't
> actually have to go to the muscles, all you have to do is have the brain
> think it's coming from the muscles. Ditto on the going in the other
> direction, all your body has to do is try and flex your legs like you
> were running to speed up, your actually legs don't need to be involved.
>
> *IF* it's said the actual legs need to be involved then why don't
> enhancements to the body (Reflex recorder, etc.) help when rigging?
>
> There just doesn't seem to be any basis for it being as invasive as say
> wired system. BTW any comments of "Game Balance" don't really answer the
> question. I want a reason that makes sense in the internal game world's
> reality, not the rule system.
>
Okay, this is my stabbing away at this thing then.

Vehicle Control Rigs are not interfaced in the same way as Matrixware is, it
is inserted into the "reactive" region of the mind (normally behind the left
or right ear somewhere). This indicates far greater need for far more
dedicated simsensual interfacing for the conversion of vehicular information
and capabilities for control into this part of the brain.

As for body enhancements not helping when rigging, I would say this, when you
are rigging with a VCR there is no need to use any part of the body at all.
My belief is that the body movements are just that, movements, they are not
assisting in any way or form with the actual piloting of the vehicle. If
anything it is probably put in this way to assuage some of the fears of those
of us who are somewhat technophobic.

Personally I like something said on Voyager this past week ... (Tom Paris)
"I'm getting tired of tapping on a keyboard, I want the feel of moving levers
and knobs and the like."

-Herc

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about VCRs and essence, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!