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Message no. 1
From: Xyron-II <markus.meisen@****.UNI-MUENCHEN.DE>
Subject: Vehicle Armor and Explosive Ammo
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 12:24:08 +0100
Hoi, out there!

I don't know if I'm the first one noticing this, but isn't explosive
ammo extremely powerful in damaging vehicular armor? You really can
damage a, let's say Banshee's armor (18) with an assault rifle loaded
with EX ammo (base power 10), because vehicle armor is treated as a
barrier and explosive ammo damages barriers up to double the (modified)
power of the Weapon. So, if I fire two 3-round bursts from the
aforementioned assault rifle into the Banshee, it will lose 6
armor/barrier points! If I repeat this cycle, this Banshee will be soon
flying around "naked" and all that with just an assault rifle and no
missiles, autocannons or such...

Anyone got suggestions on that matter?
Anyone to prove me wrong?

See ya, Xyron-II
Message no. 2
From: HAUPT ULRICH FB08 <sandman@****.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>
Subject: Re: Vehicle Armor and Explosive Ammo
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 12:53:25 MEZ-1MESZ
> I don't know if I'm the first one noticing this, but isn't explosive
> ammo extremely powerful in damaging vehicular armor? You really can
> damage a, let's say Banshee's armor (18) with an assault rifle loaded
> with EX ammo (base power 10), because vehicle armor is treated as a
> barrier and explosive ammo damages barriers up to double the (modified)
> power of the Weapon.

IIRC the barrier rating is double for fire arms destroying the
barrier and not shooting through!

I didn't find the your explosive rules in the BBB but that doesn't
mean anything becouse I'm not that familiar with different ammo
types.
There will be more and better answers from others soon - I'm sure :-)

Sandman
Message no. 3
From: William Gallas <wgallas@*****.FR>
Subject: Re: Vehicle Armor and Explosive Ammo
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 13:49:10 +0100
>Anyone got suggestions on that matter?
>Anyone to prove me wrong?

For damage to barriers, firearms use half their power. Thus, if you use an
explosive ammo, you keep the normal power. This rule is in SR2 in the part
about barriers.

Cobra.

E-mail adress : wgallas@*****.fr
Quote : "You are who you know"
Message no. 4
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Vehicle Armor and Explosive Ammo
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 11:13:49 +0100
William Gallas said on 13:49/27 Nov 97...

> For damage to barriers, firearms use half their power. Thus, if you use an
> explosive ammo, you keep the normal power. This rule is in SR2 in the part
> about barriers.

No, in attacks against barriers the Barrier Rating (BR) is doubled against
firearms when it comes to causing damage to the barrier, and the BR stays
at its normal level for determining if the round goes through.

Against explosive rounds, the BR is halved for damage to the barrier, and
doubled when checking for penetration.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
We must remember that the news itself is only entertainment.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

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Message no. 5
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Vehicle Armor and Explosive Ammo
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 11:13:49 +0100
Xyron-II said on 12:24/27 Nov 97...

> I don't know if I'm the first one noticing this, but isn't explosive
> ammo extremely powerful in damaging vehicular armor? You really can
> damage a, let's say Banshee's armor (18) with an assault rifle loaded
> with EX ammo (base power 10), because vehicle armor is treated as a
> barrier and explosive ammo damages barriers up to double the (modified)
> power of the Weapon.

This is an ambiguous rule that R2 unfortunately didn't clear up. SRII
states that vehicle "armor acts as a Barrier Rating" (page 108), and R2
basically repeats that statement on page 23. However, neither of them says
whether or not to _fully_ treat it as a BR -- i.e. with the full set of
rules for reductions in the BR from SRII page 98.

I suggest looking at the Barrier Rating interpretations that Damion
Milliken and I came up with some time ago; they're in the SR Archive
somewhere, and include a look at vehicle armor.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
We must remember that the news itself is only entertainment.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

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Message no. 6
From: Tobias Berghoff <Zixx@*****.TEUTO.DE>
Subject: Re: Vehicle Armor and Explosive Ammo
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 15:17:00 GMT
on 27.11.97 markus.meisen@****.UNI-MUENCHEN.DE wrote:
mm> Hoi, out there!

Heu? Wat für'n Heu?! ;) (sorry everybody)

mm> I don't know if I'm the first one noticing this, but isn't explosive
mm> ammo extremely powerful in damaging vehicular armor? You really can
mm> damage a, let's say Banshee's armor (18) with an assault rifle loaded
mm> with EX ammo (base power 10), because vehicle armor is treated as a
mm> barrier and explosive ammo damages barriers up to double the (modified)
mm> power of the Weapon. So, if I fire two 3-round bursts from the
mm> aforementioned assault rifle into the Banshee, it will lose 6
mm> armor/barrier points! If I repeat this cycle, this Banshee will be soon
mm> flying around "naked" and all that with just an assault rifle and no
mm> missiles, autocannons or such...

The barrier rating is only used to compare the armour. You don't decrease
it, when fireing through it (unless you use the optional rule from FoF,
that is). Also the special rule from explosive rounds doesn't work here.
That wouldn't make any sense....



Tobias Berghoff a.k.a Zixx a.k.a. Charon, your friendly werepanther physad.

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Message no. 7
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Vehicle Armor and Explosive Ammo
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:45:23 EST
In a message dated 97-11-27 06:54:07 EST, sandman@****.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE
writes:

> > I don't know if I'm the first one noticing this, but isn't explosive
> > ammo extremely powerful in damaging vehicular armor? You really can
> > damage a, let's say Banshee's armor (18) with an assault rifle loaded
> > with EX ammo (base power 10), because vehicle armor is treated as a
> > barrier and explosive ammo damages barriers up to double the (modified)
> > power of the Weapon.

Ah, one of those rules the players in the game here don't use often....

> IIRC the barrier rating is double for fire arms destroying the
> barrier and not shooting through!

I think so too...also remember however that Vehicle Armor doesn't have the
same game mechanics as "Soft" Armors....I would have the benefits of EX-Ammo
against Vehicle Armor...

> I didn't find the your explosive rules in the BBB but that doesn't
> mean anything becouse I'm not that familiar with different ammo
> types.
> There will be more and better answers from others soon - I'm sure :-)
>
> Sandman

More probably yes...better...who knows...

-K

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