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Message no. 1
From: Debbie Giesbrecht <Debbie_Giesbrecht@**.CHIRON.COM>
Subject: Vehicle damage
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 1994 14:11:12 PST
Here's some more stuff from someone who's just learning to GM this
crazy game.

It seems way to easy to blow up (destroy) a vehicle. Here's my
example: Let's say you are driving a van and get shot from behind. I
know standard weapons will have a difficult time, but bear with me.
You are using a heavy weapon, you can get through, but its not with
something explosive. The vehicle has the standard damage boxes that a
soft target has. Now, if the weapon has a high enough staging, it can
pierce through the vehicle back and cause a D wound. Vehicle
completely disabled.

I think that if a weapon were firing at a vehicle that has a lot of
cargo space like a van, it has a very good chance at just piercing
that section and messing up what's in the back. It shouldn't disable
the vehicle. I don't think a D wound necessarily should disable the
vehicle. Perhaps some sort of hit location system is what is needed.

I'm going to check my Car Wars game and see if it has any helpful
hints. Got any ideas?

Debbie

Hmmm. Pretty soon I'll be in that "varient Shadowrun" catagory.
Scary. (smile)
Message no. 2
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Damion Milliken)
Subject: Vehicle Damage
Date: Sat May 12 23:35:01 2001
Hi Folks,

While writing up my House Rules, I came across something interesting in
SR3. The section on Attacks Against a Vehicle, p. 149 says the following:

"the weapon's Power is reduced by half (round down)"

The way that this is written implies that we should determine half of the
Power of the attack, round this value down, and then subtract this from the
original Power. ie, it's the same as saying "the weapon's Power is halved
(rounding up)". So if a weapon with a Power of 9 is fired at a vehicle, the
vehicle resists a Power of 5.

Does everyone think that this particular arrangement of words was
intentional, or accidental? ie, do you think that it is meant to be half
Power, rounded down, or rounded up?

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong
Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: dam01@***.edu.au
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12
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M-- V- PS+ PE(-) Y+>++ PGP-@>++ t+ 5 X++>+++ R+(++) !tv(--) b+ DI+++@
D G+ e++>++++$ h(*) r++ y-(--)
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 3
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: Vehicle Damage
Date: Sat May 12 23:40:01 2001
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In a message dated 5/12/01 11:41:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
dam01@***.edu.au writes:


Does everyone think that this particular arrangement of words was
intentional, or accidental? ie, do you think that it is meant to be half
Power, rounded down, or rounded up?

I think you misinterpreted it. The way I read it, it says you halve the power
of the attack, then round down any fractions/decimals.

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica>In a message dated 5/12/01 11:41:07 PM
Eastern Daylight Time,
<BR>dam01@***.edu.au writes:
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>Does everyone think that this particular arrangement of words was
<BR>intentional, or accidental? &nbsp;ie, do you think that it is meant to be
half
<BR>Power, rounded down, or rounded up?<FONT SIZE=3>
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3
FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR>I think you misinterpreted it. The way I read it, it says you halve the power
<BR>of the attack, then round down any fractions/decimals.</FONT></HTML>

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Message no. 4
From: shadowrn@*********.com (John Pederson)
Subject: Vehicle Damage
Date: Sat May 12 23:50:01 2001
Damion Milliken wrote:

> Hi Folks,
>
> While writing up my House Rules, I came across something interesting in
> SR3. The section on Attacks Against a Vehicle, p. 149 says the following:
>
> "the weapon's Power is reduced by half (round down)"
>


<snippage on the (grammatically) correct interpretation of the above statement>


> Does everyone think that this particular arrangement of words was
> intentional, or accidental? ie, do you think that it is meant to be half
> Power, rounded down, or rounded up?


I'm going to guess on accidental. IME, Shadowrun almost always rounds a
value to the lowest possible value, so I'd guess that's supposed to look
something like floor(Power/2.0). Er... Divide the Power by two, then
round down:)

--
John Pederson
Message no. 5
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: Vehicle Damage
Date: Sun May 13 06:20:07 2001
According to Damion Milliken, on Sun, 13 May 2001 the word on the street was...

> Does everyone think that this particular arrangement of words was
> intentional, or accidental? ie, do you think that it is meant to be half
> Power, rounded down, or rounded up?

I've always interpreted as meaning that the final value should be rounded
down: a Power of 9 would count as Power 4 against vehicles, not 5.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
If there are vegetarian hamburgers, why isn't there beef lettuce?
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+@ UL P L++ E W-(++) N o? K w+(--) O V?
PS+ PE(-)(+) Y PGP- t@ 5++ X(+) R+++(-)>$ tv+ b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 6
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Sebastian Wiers)
Subject: Vehicle Damage
Date: Sun May 13 09:55:01 2001
>Hi Folks,
>
>While writing up my House Rules, I came across something interesting in
>SR3. The section on Attacks Against a Vehicle, p. 149 says the following:
>
> "the weapon's Power is reduced by half (round down)"
>
>The way that this is written implies that we should determine half of the
>Power of the attack, round this value down, and then subtract this from the
>original Power. ie, it's the same as saying "the weapon's Power is halved
>(rounding up)". So if a weapon with a Power of 9 is fired at a vehicle,
the
>vehicle resists a Power of 5.

That could also be (and should be) read as "reduce the power by half, then
round that result down."

Look at p. 132, "Damage Reduction". It includes an example of an Ares
Predator, normaly 9M, being reduced to 4L against vehicles.

-Mongoose
Message no. 7
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Marc Renouf)
Subject: Vehicle Damage
Date: Mon May 14 10:20:01 2001
On Sun, 13 May 2001, Damion Milliken wrote:

> Does everyone think that this particular arrangement of words was
> intentional, or accidental? ie, do you think that it is meant to be half
> Power, rounded down, or rounded up?

Just do like I do - round "bad." Rounding has always been a
problem in Shadowrun, because half the rules round up, some of them round
down, and some of them never specify. So I always round in the way that
screws the person performing the action the most. Target numbers? Round
up. Karma costs? Round up. Benefit you get from half your armor when
shot by APDS? Round down. Easy, quick, reliable, and fair.

Marc Renouf (ShadowRN GridSec - "Bad Cop" Division)

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David Buehrer <graht@******.net> GridSec "Nice Guy" Division
ShadowRN FAQ <http://hlair.dumpshock.com/faqindex.php3>;
Message no. 8
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Keith Duthie)
Subject: Vehicle Damage
Date: Mon May 14 14:55:01 2001
On Mon, 14 May 2001, Marc Renouf wrote:

> Just do like I do - round "bad." Rounding has always been a
> problem in Shadowrun, because half the rules round up, some of them round
> down, and some of them never specify. So I always round in the way that
> screws the person performing the action the most. Target numbers? Round
> up. Karma costs? Round up. Benefit you get from half your armor when
> shot by APDS? Round down. Easy, quick, reliable, and fair.

Actually, I think most karma costs round down. Skills costs do, initiation
costs do. What karma costs round up in 3rd ed?

--
Understanding is a three edged sword. Do you *want* to get the point?
http://www.albatross.co.nz/~psycho/ O- -><-
Standard disclaimer: Opinions expressed in this message are unlikely to
be mine, let alone anybody elses...
Message no. 9
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Marc Renouf)
Subject: Vehicle Damage
Date: Mon May 14 15:20:01 2001
On Tue, 15 May 2001, Keith Duthie wrote:

> > Just do like I do - round "bad."
>
> Actually, I think most karma costs round down. Skills costs do, initiation
> costs do. What karma costs round up in 3rd ed?

No, that's just my point. I can never remember which things round
which way, so I just say "round bad." If a player comes to me whining and
says "but the book says round Karma costs down, waaaaaah!" I just say
"tough shit."
It's easy to remember, fits with a dark, gritty world, and keep me
from having to dig out books to figure out which stuff rounds what way.
My players love it because it's a) fair, and b) easy.

Marc
Message no. 10
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Graht)
Subject: Vehicle Damage
Date: Mon May 14 16:05:03 2001
At 03:23 PM 5/14/2001 -0400, Marc Renouf wrote:


>On Tue, 15 May 2001, Keith Duthie wrote:
>
> > > Just do like I do - round "bad."
> >
> > Actually, I think most karma costs round down. Skills costs do, initiation
> > costs do. What karma costs round up in 3rd ed?
>
> No, that's just my point. I can never remember which things round
>which way, so I just say "round bad." If a player comes to me whining and
>says "but the book says round Karma costs down, waaaaaah!" I just say
>"tough shit."
> It's easy to remember, fits with a dark, gritty world, and keep me
>from having to dig out books to figure out which stuff rounds what way.
>My players love it because it's a) fair, and b) easy.

I use a similar "round down" house rule for pretty much the same
reason. It's easy and fair (in that it favors/disfavors everyone).



To Life,
-Graht
ShadowRN Gridsec, Nice Guy Division
--
Message no. 11
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Lady Jestyr)
Subject: Vehicle Damage
Date: Mon May 14 17:40:01 2001
At 02:07 PM 14/05/01 -0600, Graht wrote:

>> > > Just do like I do - round "bad."
>> >
>> > Actually, I think most karma costs round down. Skills costs do,
initiation
>> > costs do. What karma costs round up in 3rd ed?
>>
>> No, that's just my point. I can never remember which things round
>>which way, so I just say "round bad." If a player comes to me whining
and
>>says "but the book says round Karma costs down, waaaaaah!" I just say
>>"tough shit."
>> It's easy to remember, fits with a dark, gritty world, and keep me
>>from having to dig out books to figure out which stuff rounds what way.
>>My players love it because it's a) fair, and b) easy.
>
>I use a similar "round down" house rule for pretty much the same
>reason. It's easy and fair (in that it favors/disfavors everyone).

For what it's worth, Grimoire 2 had a line in it saying something along the
lines of "Like everything else where it's not explicitly stated in
Shadowrun, round fractions down". I can't remember it verbatim, but that
was the gist of it. From memory, it was in the Initiation section, or the
Ally spirits section, talking about Karma costs. Unfortunately I can't
track it down, since I don't own a copy of Grim2.

Now, I know that's SR2-era and hence outdated; however, it does show that
historically Shadowrun has always intended you to round fractions down, FWIW.

Lady Jestyr
~ Hell hath no fury like a geek with a whippersnipper ~

* jestyr@*****.com | URL: http://staff.dumpshock.com/jestyr *
Message no. 12
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Rand Ratinac)
Subject: Vehicle Damage
Date: Mon May 14 21:55:04 2001
> Just do like I do - round "bad." Rounding has
always been a problem in Shadowrun, because half the
rules round up, some of them round down, and some of
them never specify. So I always round in the way that
screws the person performing the action the most.
Target numbers? Round up. Karma costs? Round up.
Benefit you get from half your armor when shot by
APDS? Round down. Easy, quick, reliable, and fair.
> Marc Renouf (ShadowRN GridSec - "Bad Cop" Division)

Except that karma costs are now officially and
explicitly rounded down, as of SR3.

Oh, and Marc - you consider being shot an action? It
sure seems that way - according to your "screw the
performing the action" philosophy, the guy shooting
someone with APDS should be screwed when it comes to
hurting the target, but in the example you gave, it's
the guy being hit who's screwed. Of course, if you
always do it that way, it's still equitable. :)

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

.sig Sauer

Can you SMELL what THE DOC' is COOKIN'!!!

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