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Message no. 1
From: maxnoel_fr@*****.fr (Max Noel)
Subject: Vehicles and paracritters...
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 21:58:49 +0200
Hello again, I'm about to run into some paracritters (and nasty ones
at that -- it's in Survival of the Fittest if you're curious) with my
trusty Strato-9, and I need a couple of rule clarifications, so I turn
to ShadowRN Almighty (TM) for answers... ;)

1) What's the Signature of a materialized spirit?
2) Do "sense-based" paracritter powers (such as a Banshee's cry) work
through sensors? For that matter, what critter powers work against
vehicles/drones? I'm mainly thinking of Fear here, does it work? If so,
does it have to be cast at the drone or the rigger's meatbody?
3) The Conceal power raises its target's Signature by (Essence). How
does it affect a target lock? Consider a standard metahuman with a
Signature of 6. If I have my sensors locked on him and a Force 6 Spirit
begins concealing him (thus raising his sig to 12), what happens?

That's all I can think of ATM... But I think more will come. Thanks in
advance...

-- Wild_Cat
maxnoel_fr@*****.fr -- ICQ #85274019
"Look at you hacker... A pathetic creature of meat and bone, panting
and sweating as you run through my corridors... How can you challenge a
perfect, immortal machine?"
Message no. 2
From: davidb@****.imcprint.com (Graht)
Subject: Vehicles and paracritters...
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 14:16:54 -0600
At 09:58 PM 8/27/2003 +0200, Max Noel wrote:
> Hello again, I'm about to run into some paracritters (and nasty
> ones at that -- it's in Survival of the Fittest if you're curious) with
> my trusty Strato-9, and I need a couple of rule clarifications, so I turn
> to ShadowRN Almighty (TM) for answers... ;)
>
>1) What's the Signature of a materialized spirit?

I'm gonna pass on this one.

>2) Do "sense-based" paracritter powers (such as a Banshee's cry) work
>through sensors? For that matter, what critter powers work against
>vehicles/drones? I'm mainly thinking of Fear here, does it work? If so,
>does it have to be cast at the drone or the rigger's meatbody?

I'm basing my ruling on the rules regarding spell casting through sensory
increasing devices, and the invisibility spells.

Since a mage can't cast spells through a vid display, but can cast spells
through optics (binoculars, telescope, etc), then I would rule that
paracritter powers have the same limitations. A person would have to hear
a Banshee's cry directly, IMHO. If they heard the cry through speakers
(picked up by a microphone), or a recording of a Banshee's cry, it wouldn't
work.

As there are two variations of Invisibility, one which *specifically*
affects technology, I would rule that mind-affecting paracritter powers,
such as Fear, do not affect computers/drones unless the power/critter
description says so *specifically*.

>3) The Conceal power raises its target's Signature by (Essence). How does
>it affect a target lock? Consider a standard metahuman with a Signature of
>6. If I have my sensors locked on him and a Force 6 Spirit begins
>concealing him (thus raising his sig to 12), what happens?

I would have the player re-roll to maintain the lock, maybe with a bonus
because the lock was in place before the.... hold on, scratch
that. Concealment basically makes hiding easier. But if you know where
someone is than concealing them further won't change that. In the case of
concealment I would rule that the lock would "hold".

--
To Life,
-Graht
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader II
http://www.graht.com
Message no. 3
From: l-hansen@*****.tele.dk (Lars Wagner Hansen)
Subject: Vehicles and paracritters...
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 23:04:45 +0200
From: "Max Noel" <maxnoel_fr@*****.fr>

> Hello again, I'm about to run into some paracritters (and nasty ones
> at that -- it's in Survival of the Fittest if you're curious) with my
> trusty Strato-9, and I need a couple of rule clarifications, so I turn
> to ShadowRN Almighty (TM) for answers... ;)
>
> 1) What's the Signature of a materialized spirit?

Hmm... I can't seem to find any rules regardig this one, but I think I would
rate it as Signature = Force.

Grath took the other ones quite nicely, so I'll pass on those.

Lars
Message no. 4
From: davidb@****.imcprint.com (Graht)
Subject: Vehicles and paracritters...
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:12:52 -0600
At 11:04 PM 8/28/2003 +0200, Lars Wagner Hansen wrote:
>From: "Max Noel" <maxnoel_fr@*****.fr>
>
> > Hello again, I'm about to run into some paracritters (and nasty ones
> > at that -- it's in Survival of the Fittest if you're curious) with my
> > trusty Strato-9, and I need a couple of rule clarifications, so I turn
> > to ShadowRN Almighty (TM) for answers... ;)
> >
> > 1) What's the Signature of a materialized spirit?
>
>Hmm... I can't seem to find any rules regardig this one, but I think I would
>rate it as Signature = Force.

I don't know about that. IMHO Force is a representation of it's magic/aura.

My first inclination was to recommend using Body, but I vaguely remember
when someone asked what a person's signature was a couple years ago and
there was quite a debate about it and it wasn't that clean cut (or maybe
there was objection over a rule, I honestly can't remember).

And then there's size to account for, but generally speaking large critters
have a high Body...

Anyone else?

--
To Life,
-Graht
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader II
http://www.graht.com
Message no. 5
From: ra002585@**.unicamp.br (Bira)
Subject: Vehicles and paracritters...
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 18:22:32 -0300 (EST)
ra002585@***.unicamp.br
> > 1) What's the Signature of a materialized spirit?
>
> Hmm... I can't seem to find any rules regardig this one, but I think I would
> rate it as Signature = Force.
>
> Grath took the other ones quite nicely, so I'll pass on those.

It probably should be something like 10 - Force, instead... After all,
materialized spirits of a higher Force are probably bigger and more
noticeable than their lesses brothers.

--
Bira
http://www24.brinkster.com/shadowlandbr/index.html ou
http://www.shadowlandbr.hpg.com.br
Message no. 6
From: l-hansen@*****.tele.dk (Lars Wagner Hansen)
Subject: Vehicles and paracritters...
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 23:36:08 +0200
From: "Graht" <davidb@****.imcprint.com>
> At 11:04 PM 8/28/2003 +0200, Lars Wagner Hansen wrote:
> >From: "Max Noel" <maxnoel_fr@*****.fr>
> > >
> > > 1) What's the Signature of a materialized spirit?
> >
> >Hmm... I can't seem to find any rules regardig this one, but I think I
would
> >rate it as Signature = Force.
>
> I don't know about that. IMHO Force is a representation of it's
magic/aura.
>
> My first inclination was to recommend using Body, but I vaguely remember
> when someone asked what a person's signature was a couple years ago and
> there was quite a debate about it and it wasn't that clean cut (or maybe
> there was objection over a rule, I honestly can't remember).

For most spirits Body = Force, or at least based on Force, so you would in
effect end up with something very similar, higher Force/magic/aura => Higher
Body => Higher signature..

> And then there's size to account for, but generally speaking large
critters
> have a high Body...

Sure is, and thats why humans/orks/elves/dwarf =6 and Trolls =5?

It seems like we both god it backwards. High signature = good, low signature
= bad.

There is a list in CC page 104, and from that it states that even dragons
only have a signature of 3.

Based on that page I would rule the following:

Start with a base of 8 and for every full 3 points of force I would subtract
1, until 3 was reached. Then I would fudge it, based on what form the spirit
materialized as.

So when your force 6 city spirit materialies as a Ford Americar, it would
have a signature of a Ford Americar, but when you force 6 heart spirt
materialises as a butler, it would have a signature of 6. A force 6 field
spirit materializing as a field mouse would have a signature of 8 because
I'm generous, and as usual because I'm the GM, and I decide how the spirit
materialises.

> Anyone else?

What's wrong with me? :-)

Lars
Message no. 7
From: shirogr@*****.com (Shiro BsquLadat)
Subject: Vehicles and paracritters...
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:39:52 -0700 (PDT)
> >3) The Conceal power raises its target's Signature
> by (Essence). How does
> >it affect a target lock? Consider a standard
> metahuman with a Signature of
> >6. If I have my sensors locked on him and a Force 6
> Spirit begins
> >concealing him (thus raising his sig to 12), what
> happens?
>
> I would have the player re-roll to maintain the
> lock, maybe with a bonus
> because the lock was in place before the.... hold
> on, scratch
> that. Concealment basically makes hiding easier.
> But if you know where
> someone is than concealing them further won't change
> that. In the case of
> concealment I would rule that the lock would "hold".

I don't agree with that. The concealment would cover
the character so a new test would apply (perhaps with
a bonus for the tracking character) to reestablish
contact. Just as if someone became concealed in front
of a crowd of people.

====

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Message no. 8
From: SteveG@***********.co.za (Steve Garrard)
Subject: Vehicles and paracritters...
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 11:23:36 +0200
Shiro BsquLadat wrote:
> > [snip]
> >
> > I would have the player re-roll to maintain the
> > lock, maybe with a bonus
> > because the lock was in place before the.... hold
> > on, scratch
> > that. Concealment basically makes hiding easier.
> > But if you know where
> > someone is than concealing them further won't change
> > that. In the case of
> > concealment I would rule that the lock would "hold".
>
> I don't agree with that. The concealment would cover
> the character so a new test would apply (perhaps with
> a bonus for the tracking character) to reestablish
> contact. Just as if someone became concealed in front
> of a crowd of people.

This is a bit of a gray area IMO. It falls under the "hide-in-plain-sight"
rule that crops up in other systems like D&D quite frequently. The basic
premise is that if I'm looking straight at you and know where you are, and
assuming there isn't a large crowd around or massive dark shadows for you to
disappear into, no matter how well you may conceal yourself after the fact,
while others may find it difficult to spot you, I still know where you are.

In the case of a sensor lock, the system presumably uses image recognition
or heat signatures to acquire the lock in the first place (the system must
"know" to some degree what object in its field of view it's locked onto), so
if you conceal yourself visibly under the circumstances above, the system
should maintain the lock, since it ALSO knows where you are.

That'll be 2 cents please :)


Slayer

"Beware my wrath, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup."
- Unknown Dragon


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Message no. 9
From: loneeagle@********.co.uk (Lone Eagle)
Subject: Vehicles and paracritters...
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 16:14:46 +0100
At 08:58 PM 27/8/2003, Wild_Cat wrote:
>1) What's the Signature of a materialized spirit?

On the fly: 11-Force
9-Force for Fire Elementals, Toxics etc
13-Force for Air Elementals and Nature spirits in proper
circumstances.

>2) Do "sense-based" paracritter powers (such as a Banshee's cry) work
>through sensors? For that matter, what critter powers work against
>vehicles/drones? I'm mainly thinking of Fear here, does it work? If so,
>does it have to be cast at the drone or the rigger's meatbody?

Again on the fly:
If the rigger is piloting the drone in question in Captain's Chair mode
then the power will have no effect on the drone pilot system or the rigger
(it's easier that way). If the rigger is "in the machine" he feels the
brunt of the impact, resist the power as if the rigger were the target,
however, the power will not effect at all if its "force' is less than half
the object resistance of the drone and the quality of the sensors will
effect the power, add a number of dice equal to the sensors' rating to the
resistance test. A simple microphone may not have sound quality but it
conveys the visceral torment of a banshee's cry far better than a digital
system which filters, processes, enhances and whatever else the sound.


--
Lone Eagle
"Hold up lads, I got an idea."

www.wyrmtalk.co.uk - Please be patient, this site is under construction

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Message no. 10
From: shirogr@*****.com (Shiro BsquLadat)
Subject: Vehicles and paracritters...
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 16:07:08 -0700 (PDT)
--- Steve Garrard <SteveG@***********.co.za> wrote:
> The basic
> premise is that if I'm looking straight at you and
> know where you are, and
> assuming there isn't a large crowd around or massive
> dark shadows for you to
> disappear into, no matter how well you may conceal
> yourself after the fact,
> while others may find it difficult to spot you, I
> still know where you are.

Yes but with the aplication of Concealment you would
lose me momentarily from your sight as I was blending
in with the background so you would have to look for
me again. And I wouldn't stay in the same spot, I
would move so that you would have to find my new
position by looking again.

> In the case of a sensor lock, the system presumably
> uses image recognition
> or heat signatures to acquire the lock in the first
> place (the system must
> "know" to some degree what object in its field of
> view it's locked onto), so
> if you conceal yourself visibly under the
> circumstances above, the system
> should maintain the lock, since it ALSO knows where
> you are.

Yes but the system checks regularly for you doing
sweeps. So if you would disappear for a moment the
next time the sensors would know that something was
there but it is not in the same position now. That
would call for another lock. And concealment makes you
blend in with the background so the image-recognition
software wouldn't do much. The infa-red would receive
scrambled signals due to thermal dampening by the
spirit power.

====

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