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Message no. 1
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Max Noel)
Subject: Vehicles, drones and the law
Date: Fri Aug 2 08:20:00 2002
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Hello again, folks...

I just realized that Rigger 3 doesn't have any legality codes
anywhere, aside from the weapons (which we already knew were illegal).
There's absolutely nothing in the vehicle design/customization chapters. Is
there an official list somewhere?
I mean, I know the cops probably aren't gonna like my Lone Star
Strato-9 drone and its MMG, or the micro-turrets on all my vehicles. But is
vehicular armor legal? I assume it is because the BMW Blitzen and some
others have some, but is it regular or concealed armor? In other words, is
my GMC Bulldog Security w/ concealed armor more legal than my Hughes
Stallion that's covered with big metal plates? What about Drive-by-Wire
systems? Do I even have the right to own a vehicle with a RBB inside? What
kind of licenses do I need to have all this stuff?

Thanks in advance,

-- Wild_Cat

maxnoel_fr@*****.fr
ICQ UIN: 85274019
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Message no. 2
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: Vehicles, drones and the law
Date: Thu Aug 8 15:00:01 2002
In a message dated Fri, 02 Aug 2002 14:20:50 +0200, maxnoel_fr@*****.fr writes:

>
>
> Hello again, folks...
>
> I just realized that Rigger 3 doesn't have any legality codes
> anywhere, aside from the weapons (which we already knew were illegal).
> There's absolutely nothing in the vehicle design/customization chapters. Is
> there an official list somewhere?
> I mean, I know the cops probably aren't gonna like my Lone Star
> Strato-9 drone and its MMG, or the micro-turrets on all my vehicles. But is
> vehicular armor legal? I assume it is because the BMW Blitzen and some
> others have some, but is it regular or concealed armor? In other words, is
> my GMC Bulldog Security w/ concealed armor more legal than my Hughes
> Stallion that's covered with big metal plates? What about Drive-by-Wire
> systems? Do I even have the right to own a vehicle with a RBB inside? What
> kind of licenses do I need to have all this stuff?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> -- Wild_Cat


I was wondering if there was any response to this I have looked and found none myself does
anyone know where there is a decent legality codes?
Message no. 3
From: shadowrn@*********.com (ButtonMasher)
Subject: Vehicles, drones and the law
Date: Thu Aug 8 17:25:01 2002
----- Original Message -----
From: <Jeffleegreen@***.com>
To: <shadowrn@*********.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 2:02 PM
Subject: Re: Vehicles, drones and the law


> In a message dated Fri, 02 Aug 2002 14:20:50 +0200, maxnoel_fr@*****.fr
writes:
>
> >
> >
> > Hello again, folks...
> >
> > I just realized that Rigger 3 doesn't have any legality codes
> > anywhere, aside from the weapons (which we already knew were illegal).
> > There's absolutely nothing in the vehicle design/customization chapters.
Is
> > there an official list somewhere?
> > I mean, I know the cops probably aren't gonna like my Lone Star
> > Strato-9 drone and its MMG, or the micro-turrets on all my vehicles. But
is
> > vehicular armor legal? I assume it is because the BMW Blitzen and some
> > others have some, but is it regular or concealed armor? In other words,
is
> > my GMC Bulldog Security w/ concealed armor more legal than my Hughes
> > Stallion that's covered with big metal plates? What about Drive-by-Wire
> > systems? Do I even have the right to own a vehicle with a RBB inside?
What
> > kind of licenses do I need to have all this stuff?
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> >
> > -- Wild_Cat
>
>
> I was wondering if there was any response to this I have looked and found
none myself does anyone know where there is a decent legality codes?
>
>

I have yet to find any myself. I wonder if using the highest legality code
of the weapon/sysem on the drone would work, albiet modified slightly.

Any thoughts?

ButtonMasher
Message no. 4
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Max Noel)
Subject: Vehicles, drones and the law
Date: Thu Aug 8 20:15:02 2002
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At 16:29 08/08/2002 -0500, ButtonMasher wrote:
> > I was wondering if there was any response to this I have looked and found
>none myself does anyone know where there is a decent legality codes?
> >
> >
>
>I have yet to find any myself. I wonder if using the highest legality code
>of the weapon/sysem on the drone would work, albiet modified slightly.
>
>Any thoughts?
>
>ButtonMasher

Well the problem is that none of the systems in Rigger 3 (save
weapon systems) have legality codes. The vehicle design/customization
chapters say that some systems are security/military grade and thus should
bump up the street index by 1 or 2 (I don't think they're even specific),
but that's about all. And while it's easy to figure a smart armor system
has a code of "the goddamn thing contains friggin' explosives -- the Star
WILL arrest you", it's a bit blurry for the rest.


-- Wild_Cat

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Message no. 5
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Damion Milliken)
Subject: Vehicles, drones and the law
Date: Thu Aug 8 20:45:02 2002
ButtonMasher writes:

> > > I just realized that Rigger 3 doesn't have any legality codes
> > > anywhere, aside from the weapons (which we already knew were illegal).
> > > There's absolutely nothing in the vehicle design/customization
> > > chapters. Is there an official list somewhere?
> >
> > I was wondering if there was any response to this I have looked and found
> > none myself does anyone know where there is a decent legality codes?
>
> I have yet to find any myself. I wonder if using the highest legality code
> of the weapon/sysem on the drone would work, albiet modified slightly.

As far as I know, there aren't any published codes. It would make sense to
me to apply a Class A/B/C Equipment code to most drones and various
vehicles. Class A equipment is gear of a paralegal nature. Class B of
security-grade or law enforcement nature. And Class C of a military-grade
nature. The penalties are a 2,000 nuyen fine for Class A, a 4,000 nuyen fine
for Class B, and an 8,000 nuyen fine/2 years imprisonment for Class C gear.
Additonally, as most drones or vehicles of these natures have other illegal
gear on them (notably weapons); the penalty for the gear on the drone would
also be added.

In answer to a couple of the original queries:

> > > I mean, I know the cops probably aren't gonna like my Lone Star
> > > Strato-9 drone and its MMG, or the micro-turrets on all my vehicles.
> > > But is vehicular armor legal? I assume it is because the BMW Blitzen
> > > and some others have some, but is it regular or concealed armor? In
> > > other words, is my GMC Bulldog Security w/ concealed armor more legal
> > > than my Hughes Stallion that's covered with big metal plates?

As far as I know, there are no rules to indicate that vehicle armour is
illegal in any way. And the fact that several commonly, commercially
available civilian vehicles have vehicle armour (and concealed vehicle
armour) leads me to believe that it is not illegal in SR. This does not mean
that it won't attract undue attention, of course. Just like ankle length
leather coats aren't illegal. But you can bet that if you walk into a
department store wearing one, there'll be a "security to section 12" call
almost immediately. Vehicle armour, while not illegal, in my view, _is_
suspicious and highly suspect.

> What about Drive-by-Wire systems?

Again, I've no idea. But the fact that all such a system does is improve
handling, I couldn't see the authorities having too much of a problem with
it.

> Do I even have the right to own a vehicle with a RBB inside?

SR3 lists them as legal on p 306.

> What kind of licenses do I need to have all this stuff?

If you assume Class A/B/C equipment, then permits can be determined as per
the normal rules. I would hazard a guess that permits would probably only be
available for Class A gear. Also, don't forget that you techincally need a
permit for a VCR, and decent level remote control deck ECCM. R3 also lists
legalities for various other gear, most of which is either in your remote
control deck, in the drone, or in you. Obviously, any weapons, ammo, or
other stuff in drones would also need permits as appropriate.

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong
Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: dam01@***.edu.au
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Message no. 6
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Lone Eagle)
Subject: Vehicles, drones and the law
Date: Fri Aug 9 04:15:01 2002
>From: "ButtonMasher" <1shadowrun@*****.com>
> > I was wondering if there was any response to this I have looked and
>found
>none myself does anyone know where there is a decent legality codes?
> >
> >
>
>I have yet to find any myself. I wonder if using the highest legality code
>of the weapon/sysem on the drone would work, albiet modified slightly.

There's got to be more to it than that, most of the vehicles don't actually
have weapons, they just have turrets, an unarmed GMC Riverine (patrol) is
still a security grade vehicle.
If the errata call is still out it would probably be worth talking to FanPro
and getting legality included in the next printing.

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Message no. 7
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: Vehicles, drones and the law
Date: Fri Aug 9 05:50:04 2002
According to Jeffleegreen@***.com, on Thu, 08 Aug 2002 the word on the street was...

> > I just realized that Rigger 3 doesn't have any legality codes
> > anywhere, aside from the weapons (which we already knew were illegal).
> > There's absolutely nothing in the vehicle design/customization
> > chapters. Is there an official list somewhere?
>
> I was wondering if there was any response to this I have looked and found
> none myself does anyone know where there is a decent legality codes?

There isn't; vehicles apparently don't have a legality, which must mean they're
always legal. However, items mounted on or in the vehicle may be illegal to varying
degrees... So if you don't want players to get away with using MMG-carrying drones,
slap them with a charge under category H: Heavy Weapon, plus an additional one for
its ammo.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Huh?
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

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Message no. 8
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: Vehicles, drones and the law
Date: Fri Aug 9 08:25:01 2002
> > I just realized that Rigger 3 doesn't have any legality codes
> > anywhere, aside from the weapons (which we already knew were illegal).
> > There's absolutely nothing in the vehicle design/customization chapters.
>Is
> > there an official list somewhere?
> > I mean, I know the cops probably aren't gonna like my Lone Star
> > Strato-9 drone and its MMG, or the micro-turrets on all my vehicles. But
>is
> > vehicular armor legal? I assume it is because the BMW Blitzen and some
> > others have some, but is it regular or concealed armor? In other words,
is
> > my GMC Bulldog Security w/ concealed armor more legal than my Hughes
> > Stallion that's covered with big metal plates? What about Drive-by-Wire
> > systems? Do I even have the right to own a vehicle with a RBB inside?
>What
> I was wondering if there was any response to this I have looked and found
>none myself does anyone know where there is a decent legality codes?
>
>
>
>I have yet to find any myself. I wonder if using the highest legality code
>of the weapon/sysem on the drone would work, albiet modified slightly.
>
>Any thoughts?
>
>ButtonMasher

External armour should be treated as heavy security or milspec for legality.
The same holds true for turrets. They would require at least a security
license to operate. I don't think there is a legality issue with the RBB
since rigged vehicles are legal. Not every rigger is a shadowrunner. I
can't find any reference to this but it seems fair... if you treat any
vehicle or drone modification the same as it's street sam equivalent for
legality it should balance the game out nicely (eg. A pop up micro turret is
the same as a concealed holster).

Coyote
Message no. 9
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: Vehicles, drones and the law
Date: Fri Aug 9 16:30:01 2002
In a message dated Thu, 8 Aug 2002 4:29:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, 1shadowrun@*****.com
writes:
Edited:
> > I was wondering if there was any response to this I have looked and found
> none myself does anyone know where there is a decent legality codes?
> >
> >
>
> I have yet to find any myself. I wonder if using the highest legality code
> of the weapon/sysem on the drone would work, albiet
> modified slightly.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> ButtonMasher

That does make sense to me, maybe raised a little to include the fact that there are
several systems tied together.

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