Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: "Christopher R. Crane" <ucrc1@******.EDU>
Subject: Vehicle Street Indexes...
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 18:45:54 -0400
Has anybody every seen street index listings for vehicles. I think
somebody mentioned it earlier, but since I got the fields of fire
sourcebook I have been wondering. Think of the legal crap you have to go
through today for registration of a vehicle. Nothing is ever mentioned in
the sourcebooks. In novels I have encountered that they have "tags" for
the cars. What the hell does that mean?

Any thoughts?


...Chris
Message no. 2
From: Menard Steve <menars@***.UMONTREAL.CA>
Subject: Re: Vehicle Street Indexes...
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 21:55:00 -0400
On Thu, 20 Apr 1995, Christopher R. Crane wrote:

> Has anybody every seen street index listings for vehicles. I think
> somebody mentioned it earlier, but since I got the fields of fire
> sourcebook I have been wondering. Think of the legal crap you have to go
> through today for registration of a vehicle. Nothing is ever mentioned in
> the sourcebooks. In novels I have encountered that they have "tags" for
> the cars. What the hell does that mean?
>
Let's see ... On page 264 (hardback, srII) they say :
" vehicles generally have an availability equal to cost/10,000. The
base time is equal to 1/2 availability(round down). Street index is .75
for Costs less than 10,000, 1 for up 50,000 and 2 for more tha 50,000.
For military/restricted vehicles you might want to double
availability, time and street index.

I have not read anything mentioning vehicle registration yet, so I
came up with my own rules : Civilian vehicles : Nothing. Added free of
charge on any false credstick. Boats/aircrafts : You must pay a
"lifestyle". That is, you character pays a company (a legit one) to be
on its license. The more freedom you get, the higher the fee. For
everything else, don't get caught with it without a VERY good false ID!

If you want more details, e-mail me and I'll send you my text file.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--- |\_/| Still The One and Only Wolfbane! ---
--- |o o| " Hey! Why ya lookin' at me so weird? Ain't ya 'ver seen a ---
--- \ / decker witha horn ?" --- Scy, Troll decker with a CC ---
--- 0 Steve Menard menars@***.UMontreal.Ca ---
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 3
From: Damion Milliken <adm82@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Vehicle Street Indexes...
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 23:29:44 +1000
Christopher R. Crane writes:

> Think of the legal crap you have to go through today for registration of a
> vehicle. Nothing is ever mentioned in the sourcebooks. In novels I have
> encountered that they have "tags" for the cars. What the hell does that
mean?

In the LS sourcebook it mentions that vehicles have bar-codes rather than
license plates. That way LS drones patrolling traffic can simply scan the
vehicle to see who owns it. As for rego and the like, I'd say it'd go with a
lifestyle, providing you had some kind of ID to register the vehicle under
(whether real or fake). From the lifestyle descriptions I'd say that a Middle
or higher lifestyle would include vehicle rego.

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong E-mail: adm82@***.edu.au

(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+@ H s++:-- !g p0 !au a19 w+ v(?) C++ US++>+++ P+ L !3
E? N K- W M@ !V po@ Y+ t+ 5 !j R+(++) G(+)('''') !tv(--@)
b++ D B? e+$ u@ h* f+ !r n----(--)@ !y+
Message no. 4
From: P Ward <P.Ward@**.CF.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Vehicle Street Indexes...
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 13:11:20 BST
I would suggest that there's a bar-code as well as the normal license
otherwise witnesses are not going to be able to ID the vehicle seen
leaving the scene of the crime.

I think in the front of Dividid Assets the vehicle the (dumb) runners
are hiding behind has a Bar-code and a regular license plate.

I include vehicle expenses as part of lifestyle (within reason),
and registration is all part of getting a false SIN.

Phil (Renegade)
Message no. 5
From: Ryan W. Bolduan emeottrw@***.umn.edu
Subject: Vehicle Street Indexes
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 11:49:52 -0600 (CST)
I know I can find this if I dig long and hard enough, but I'm under some
time constraints. What exactly are the street indexes for vehicles listed
in Rigger 2? Thanks in advance.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ryan Bolduan emeottrw@***.mrs.umn.edu
http://cda.mrs.umn.edu/~emeottrw

A person concerned with such important matters as I, need not, and should
not, attend to spelling.
--Napolean
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 6
From: Ojaste,James [NCR] James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA
Subject: Vehicle Street Indexes
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 13:03:01 -0500
Ryan W. Bolduan wrote:
> I know I can find this if I dig long and hard enough, but I'm under some
> time constraints. What exactly are the street indexes for vehicles listed
> in Rigger 2? Thanks in advance.
>
They aren't. They *were* listed in RBB, and maybe in SR2/3 but I
don't remember where.

I think it went something like this:

Cost Index
<= 50,000Y 0.5
<= 100,000Y 1.0
> 100,000Y 2.0

James Ojaste
Message no. 7
From: Ryan W. Bolduan emeottrw@***.umn.edu
Subject: Vehicle Street Indexes
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:35:19 -0600 (CST)
Okay then...seeing how we don't have street indexes anymore, what do you
think about this. I realize of course that the cost index is already
factored in when designing the car, but it makes some sense to me. What
do you guys/gals think?

Normal everyday car: Street Index of 1
It makes no sense to me that those Eurocar Westwinds are so damn expensive
(even when going through a fixer rather than your usual Eurocar dealer).

Security Vehicles/Variants: 1.5-2
Don't really know how to define those against the next category though.

Military Vehicles/Variants: 2.5+

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ryan Bolduan emeottrw@***.mrs.umn.edu
http://cda.mrs.umn.edu/~emeottrw

A person concerned with such important matters as I, need not, and should
not, attend to spelling.
--Napolean
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Wed, 10 Feb 1999, Ojaste,James [NCR] wrote:

> Ryan W. Bolduan wrote:
> > I know I can find this if I dig long and hard enough, but I'm under some
> > time constraints. What exactly are the street indexes for vehicles listed
> > in Rigger 2? Thanks in advance.
> >
> They aren't. They *were* listed in RBB, and maybe in SR2/3 but I
> don't remember where.
>
> I think it went something like this:
>
> Cost Index
> <= 50,000Y 0.5
> <= 100,000Y 1.0
> > 100,000Y 2.0
>
> James Ojaste
>
>
>
>
Message no. 8
From: Ojaste,James [NCR] James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA
Subject: Vehicle Street Indexes
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:57:29 -0500
Ryan W. Bolduan wrote:
> Okay then...seeing how we don't have street indexes anymore, what do you
> think about this. I realize of course that the cost index is already
> factored in when designing the car, but it makes some sense to me. What
> do you guys/gals think?
>
I'll have to read it first... ;-)

> Normal everyday car: Street Index of 1
> It makes no sense to me that those Eurocar Westwinds are so damn expensive
> (even when going through a fixer rather than your usual Eurocar dealer).
>
The EW isn't exactly a normal everyday car - it costs 200kY! That's
as much as a Lamborghini today! If you drive one around, you *will*
be noticed - I see street index as meaning not the price of criminally
obtaining one, but the price of obtaining one that somebody isn't
going to go looking for.

If you just want it legally, sure, pop by the dealership (but have
a *good* fake SIN handy). If you want to steal one (or have one
stolen for you) - not *too* difficult, but you'd better dump it
quick or the Star will be on your tail.

> Security Vehicles/Variants: 1.5-2
> Don't really know how to define those against the next category though.
>
Security is security. IE only firms that have been granted a security
license will be able to buy them legally. They generally don't have
anything heavier than an LMG (shudder), and are meant more for urban
warfare than anything else (ie security-class jet fighters are pushing
it).

It should be damn hard to get these illegally. On corp turf, the corp
should know what it has and where. On city streets, the Star is going
to come down but *hard* on somebody cruising around in an unlicensed
Citymaster.

> Military Vehicles/Variants: 2.5+
>
Only militaries will be able to buy these legally. I could see a
military supplier "losing" a crate of guns with little fuss, but
your average tank isn't just going to "fall off the back" without
*somebody* raising a ruckus... :-)

James Ojaste
Message no. 9
From: Ryan W. Bolduan emeottrw@***.umn.edu
Subject: Vehicle Street Indexes
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:17:26 -0600 (CST)
On Wed, 10 Feb 1999, Ojaste,James [NCR] wrote:
> > Normal everyday car: Street Index of 1
> > It makes no sense to me that those Eurocar Westwinds are so damn expensive
> > (even when going through a fixer rather than your usual Eurocar dealer).
> >
> The EW isn't exactly a normal everyday car - it costs 200kY! That's
> as much as a Lamborghini today! If you drive one around, you *will*
> be noticed - I see street index as meaning not the price of criminally
> obtaining one, but the price of obtaining one that somebody isn't
> going to go looking for.
>
> If you just want it legally, sure, pop by the dealership (but have
> a *good* fake SIN handy). If you want to steal one (or have one
> stolen for you) - not *too* difficult, but you'd better dump it
> quick or the Star will be on your tail.
>
> > Security Vehicles/Variants: 1.5-2
> > Don't really know how to define those against the next category though.
> >
> Security is security. IE only firms that have been granted a security
> license will be able to buy them legally. They generally don't have
> anything heavier than an LMG (shudder), and are meant more for urban
> warfare than anything else (ie security-class jet fighters are pushing
> it).
>
> It should be damn hard to get these illegally. On corp turf, the corp
> should know what it has and where. On city streets, the Star is going
> to come down but *hard* on somebody cruising around in an unlicensed
> Citymaster.
>
> > Military Vehicles/Variants: 2.5+
> >
> Only militaries will be able to buy these legally. I could see a
> military supplier "losing" a crate of guns with little fuss, but
> your average tank isn't just going to "fall off the back" without
> *somebody* raising a ruckus... :-)
>
> James Ojaste
>

This is all fine and dandy, but it still doesn't really explain how we
should start handling street indexes for vehicles. The old price guide
just doesn't cut it for me anymore. I agree with most of your reasoning
of how to go about buying a vehicle, but doesn't explain what to do once
they find one. To me, its easier to buy a vehicle that doesn't have
anything on it, and then modify it up the wazoo.

What if we were to start by making a table that categorizes vehicles and
assigns a range of street indexes to them. For example:

Small Cars: Jackrabbits, Runabouts: .75 (easy to steal)
Midsize Sedans: Americars: 1
Sport Cars: Westwind, Dynamit: 2-3
Luxury Cars: Most limos: 3-4
Standard Roto-Craft: 1-2 (I have to believe that there are enough Huges
Stallions out there.)
etc...

Any suggestions?
Message no. 10
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Vehicle Street Indexes
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 11:26:45 +0100
According to Ryan W. Bolduan, at 12:35 on 10 Feb 99, the word on
the street was...

> Okay then...seeing how we don't have street indexes anymore

Have you looked at the vehicle stats in SR3? There is a Street Index in
there as well as cost and Availability ratings. Availability TN and time
is easy for non-drones: cost divided by 20,000 and rounded up. Street
Index is more difficult, but it appears to be based on the cost of the
vehicle as well. Let's see:

to 22,500: .75
to 122,000: 1
to 174,000: 2
to 349,000: 3
to 589,000: 4
817,000 and more: NA

This list was compiled by looking at the prices in SR3 only. Streamlined,
the SI appears to be based on something like this sequence:

0-25,000: .75
25,001-150,000: 1
150,001-250,000: 2
250,001-500,000: 3
500,001-750,000: 4
750,001+: NA

Of course I'll likely be wrong with the exact numbers, but until FASA
tells us the values they used, it's a reasonable guideline.

> what do you think about this. I realize of course that the cost index
> is already factored in when designing the car, but it makes some sense
> to me. What do you guys/gals think?

The street index reflects the higher price of goods on the _street_ rather
than when buying the item in a store (or from a dealership, in this case);
as such, no manufacturer would factor it into the price, simply because
they _can't_ -- unless they're the ones selling the cars on the street,
but that's rather unlikely.

> Normal everyday car: Street Index of 1
> It makes no sense to me that those Eurocar Westwinds are so damn expensive
> (even when going through a fixer rather than your usual Eurocar dealer).

Ever looked at the price for a Porsche 911? That's roughly what a Westwind
is, IMHO.


<GridSec>
BTW, could you quote the original message _before_ your reply, and snip
the irrelevant parts of that original post? Thanks.
</GridSec>

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
If it's no use pretending, then I don't want to know.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 11
From: Mongoose m0ng005e@*********.com
Subject: Vehicle Street Indexes
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:21:27 -0600
Ever looked at the price for a Porsche 911? That's roughly what a Westwind
is, IMHO.


++++++++++++++++

BTB, a Eurocar has a street price HIGHER than list. (Street index of
2 or 3, I think, since SI depends on list price for vehicles). That makes
no sense- a stolen Porsche, or one purchased on the gray market, is
CHEAPER than one bought at a dealer. Sure, it will lack certain niceties
(like maybe a title, emissions hardware, or matching VIN's on all the
parts...), and that could cause expensive legal problems or require
expensive "preventions"- but there is a REASON the gray market for import
auto's exists toady, and its not just those extra 5% horsepower the
non-American version gets.
What's my point? Street indexes for vehicles seem silly- many factors
go into a vehicles cost that do not affect smaller, portable items that
can move more fluidly in the market and whose value is less affected by
external factors. The GM should feel free to adjust the price to reflect
supply and demand, as well as other factors, but there's no reason all
vehicles over a certain price would sell for more "on the street" than in
a showroom.

Mongoose
Message no. 12
From: David Buehrer dbuehrer@******.carl.org
Subject: Vehicle Street Indexes
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 07:54:33 -0700 (MST)
For the mere cost of a Thaum, Mongoose wrote:
/
/ BTB, a Eurocar has a street price HIGHER than list. (Street index of
/ 2 or 3, I think, since SI depends on list price for vehicles). That makes
/ no sense- a stolen Porsche, or one purchased on the gray market, is
/ CHEAPER than one bought at a dealer. Sure, it will lack certain niceties
/ (like maybe a title, emissions hardware, or matching VIN's on all the
/ parts...), and that could cause expensive legal problems or require
/ expensive "preventions"- but there is a REASON the gray market for import
/ auto's exists toady, and its not just those extra 5% horsepower the
/ non-American version gets.
/ What's my point? Street indexes for vehicles seem silly- many factors
/ go into a vehicles cost that do not affect smaller, portable items that
/ can move more fluidly in the market and whose value is less affected by
/ external factors. The GM should feel free to adjust the price to reflect
/ supply and demand, as well as other factors, but there's no reason all
/ vehicles over a certain price would sell for more "on the street" than in
/ a showroom.

You just said it yourself, the street index reflects supply and
demand. It would seem that there are a fair number of SINless people
who want those cars. Since they're allready a limited resource the
number available (that can be successfully stolen, remember they're
usuall owned by corps that live in corporate AAA sectors) is small.
High demand, low supply, high price.

-David B.
--
"Earn what you have been given."
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Vehicle Street Indexes, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!