Logs for ShadowRN and Associated Mailing Lists

From:	shadowrn@*********.com (Danyel Woods)
Subject:	Vehicles (was Re: Great Dragon)
Date:	Fri Aug 9 07:15:01 2002

Message no. 1 Given how many of you have mentioned 'Die Hard' under the 'Draon' heading, I
have to wonder who's been channeling the 'Yippe-ki-yay Weekend' now playing
here: the three DH movies in order tonight, Saturday and Sunday. Perhaps
TV3 is running a weekend 'Introduction to Shadowrunning' course? <g>

In any case, the discussion of how vehicles are soft targets struck a chord
in my mind, and a couple of fixes occurred to me. Now, I'm thinking out
loud here, so people who still actually play these days will have to
error-check me, but here goes....

1. For the purposes of damage-resistance, all vehicular Body Ratings are
effectively *doubled*. (An easy quick fix, but possibly unbalancing.) The
problems with vehicle armour I'll leave to someone who isn't fatigue-drunk
right now. <g>

2. Customisation option: Improved Body
Achieved by reinforcing structural members, armouring and/or repositioning
flammables storage, control feeds etc.
Possible improvement: Minimum +1; maximum level 1.5x vehicle's base rating
(round down) or +3, whichever is *less*.
(Cost and such I'll leave up to the tech-heads and rules gurus. :-)

Opinions?

Leaving my weird ideas about damage staging for another day,
-> Danyel

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

From:	shadowrn@*********.com (Lone Eagle)
Subject:	Vehicles (was Re: Great Dragon)
Date:	Fri Aug 9 08:40:00 2002

Message no. 2 >From: "Danyel Woods" <matryoshka_01@*******.com>
>2. Customisation option: Improved Body
>Achieved by reinforcing structural members, armouring and/or repositioning
>flammables storage, control feeds etc.
>Possible improvement: Minimum +1; maximum level 1.5x vehicle's base rating
>(round down) or +3, whichever is *less*.
>(Cost and such I'll leave up to the tech-heads and rules gurus. :-)

Reinforced Body as a vehicle option has been discussed here before and was
included in "The Shop", it was limited to a one shot increase of +1 then
however (although that was Rigger 2).

What I am planning to do (I'm playtesting at the moment) is this:
1) Vehicles stage damage down with each success. (We use a the same "staging
beyond deadly" rule Gurth uses so it should work nicely)
2) Normal ammunition, high explosive missiles, grenades...etc follows the
normal rules.
3) Normal weapons, up to and including Assault cannon firing AV rounds do
not automatically stage down, nor is their power halved, however they do not
reduce the vehicle's armour.
4) Anti-Vehicle weapons, Weapons including the Vermicide Autocannon and
similar vehicle mounted heavy weapons, Specifically AV Missiles such as the
Great Dragon and the Arbelast but not Generic AV Missiles (which follow 3
above) AV Mortar rounds and Mines and other specifically stated Anti-Vehicle
weapons (anything in Rigger 3 which is bigger than an Assault Cannon
although I will have to make a list) do not stage down automatically, nor is
their power effected, in addition they reduce the armour of the target by
50%.

This means that a guy with an SMG is significantly less effective against a
lightly armoured car than for example a land mine despite the fact that the
bullets he's firing are 9mm parabellum but made from brass rather than lead
alloy. He is however significantly more effective than his mate who's firing
the same SMG loaded with standard rounds...
Like I say they need thoroughly playtesting but...
At least they stop a guy with a Remington 950 and hotloaded (+1 Power) AV
rounds taking out a Striker (Armour 18 IIRC), which seems to me to be "A
Good Thing"®

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

From:	shadowrn@*********.com (Damion Milliken)
Subject:	Vehicles (was Re: Great Dragon)
Date:	Sat Aug 10 02:10:01 2002

Message no. 3 Danyel Woods writes:

> 1. For the purposes of damage-resistance, all vehicular Body Ratings are
> effectively *doubled*. (An easy quick fix, but possibly unbalancing.) The
> problems with vehicle armour I'll leave to someone who isn't fatigue-drunk
> right now. <g>

I use a similar modification to vehicle Body Attributes. I triple them. I
haven't found it unbalancing yet. But do remember, that I also modify vehicle
armour, too. I treat it as normal, and do not have "Hardened Armour" in my
games.

> 2. Customisation option: Improved Body
> Achieved by reinforcing structural members, armouring and/or repositioning
> flammables storage, control feeds etc.
> Possible improvement: Minimum +1; maximum level 1.5x vehicle's base rating
> (round down) or +3, whichever is *less*.
> (Cost and such I'll leave up to the tech-heads and rules gurus. :-)
>
> Opinions?

If you're going to double vehicle Body's, then the customisation will
probably work pretty well. I haven't introduced anything like that myself,
but I do think that it's a good idea.

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong
Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: dam01@***.edu.au
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12
GE d- s++:-- a26 C++ US++>+++ P+ L+>++ E- W++ N+ o@ K- w+(--) O-@ M--
V- PS+ PE- Y+ PGP-@>++ t+@ 5@ X+>+++ R++ tv(-) b+ DI+++@ D-@ G+
e++>++++ h--- r+++ y+++
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

From:	shadowrn@*********.com (Damion Milliken)
Subject:	Vehicles (was Re: Great Dragon)
Date:	Sat Aug 10 02:15:01 2002

Message no. 4 Lone Eagle writes:

> What I am planning to do (I'm playtesting at the moment) is this:
> 1) Vehicles stage damage down with each success. (We use a the same "staging
> beyond deadly" rule Gurth uses so it should work nicely)

This is an interesting idea. It's a bit like doubling the vehicle's Body, in
a way, as it means that the vehicle needs half the successes to reduce
damage. Actually, because there are no "odd rols, therefore only one stage
down" issues, it's a little bit better than doubling the Body. I like it, as
think that it has good potential.

> 2) Normal ammunition, high explosive missiles, grenades...etc follows the
> normal rules.

Fair enough.

> 3) Normal weapons, up to and including Assault cannon firing AV rounds do
> not automatically stage down, nor is their power halved, however they do not
> reduce the vehicle's armour.

This is a very good idea.

> 4) Anti-Vehicle weapons, Weapons including the Vermicide Autocannon and
> similar vehicle mounted heavy weapons, Specifically AV Missiles such as the
> Great Dragon and the Arbelast but not Generic AV Missiles (which follow 3
> above) AV Mortar rounds and Mines and other specifically stated Anti-Vehicle
> weapons (anything in Rigger 3 which is bigger than an Assault Cannon
> although I will have to make a list) do not stage down automatically, nor is
> their power effected, in addition they reduce the armour of the target by
> 50%.

Also fair enough.

I think that your rules have very good potential.

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong
Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: dam01@***.edu.au
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12
GE d- s++:-- a26 C++ US++>+++ P+ L+>++ E- W++ N+ o@ K- w+(--) O-@ M--
V- PS+ PE- Y+ PGP-@>++ t+@ 5@ X+>+++ R++ tv(-) b+ DI+++@ D-@ G+
e++>++++ h--- r+++ y+++
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

Mailing List Logs for

Further Reading

Disclaimer