| From: | Tzeentch tzeentch666@*********.net |
|---|---|
| Subject: | Virtual Realities 3.0: UMS |
| Date: | Wed, 26 Jul 2000 15:44:24 -0700 |
> No probs. I don't think I'm 100% right btw, it's just an opinion. Asking
> folks in the industry to predict what will happen in 60 years is like
> asking the guys who worked on UNIVAC what they thought computers would be
> doing in the year 2000. They probably would have said "Heating buildings"
I totally agree. But there are some things that just won't change. And
Shadowrun has a pretty archaic view of technology in general so it certainly
seems pretty logical to apply modern thinking to the problem.
Of course the writers of the books don't necessarily care about such piddly
things as logic and consistency ;) Even me! ;) hehe
I'm looking forward to critizing my own work when TM comes out, I'm just
wierd that way hehhe
> > > > UNIVERSAL MATRIX SPECIFICATIONS
> > I was actually thinking of the various communications protocols. IE UMS
is a
> > combination TCP/IP, UDP, SNA, X.25, NetBIOS, etc etc. It'll never happen
but
> > it happens to match canon statements.
> >
> > It's not necessarily hardware incompatibility, but the difference
between
> > plugging into a token ring and Ethernet network.
> >
> Ah ok. This is actually already done. You'll have a machine that acts as
> a translator converting one to the other. There's no need for a standard
> per se, just a conversion mechanism.
But again that adds overhead and cost down the line. I simply handwave the
problem away with a real extensible standard - UMS. Since in my view of How
Things Work what really drives what you get "off" the Matrix is your sensor
program essentially UMS is just an way to simplify its job. If it encounters
an archaic network ("Wow, these guys STILL use IP!") then it can perform the
necessary translation functions - at a hit to performance. Since in SR your
persona programs reside on the telco servers it puts the onus on them to
make their own jobs easier and reduce complexity by having a single standard
so they are not the ones wasting precious processor cycles doing grunt data
translation.
> > > > STANDARD FOR A NEW DAY
> > > Unnecessary, it's already in place.
> >
> > Not really. Or are you saying any old computer can understand Jini
system
> > calls? Or Java without a JVM?
> >
> Sorry I forgot what we were taking about here, grin. Long day.
Of course just when you think you've got everything figured out nicely in SR
they throw curveballs at you like encrypted data requires more bandwidth to
translate <boggle>
> > > > NERPS
> > Of course in Shadowrun servers seem to be back into the bad old days of
> > clien-server architecture so it may well be logical in the SR universe
to
> > have the servers do it all. Of course I don't buy it, and that would
also
> > make explaining reality filters harder then it already is.
> >
> Conceivably they could. Whether it will happen or not is another story
> entirely. Good ole Bill Gates' dot-net project is built around that
> idea: leased software. He thinks that in the future we'll be going back
> to the dumb-terminal client-server architecture. I'm not so sure myself,
> I don't have much problem with owning Windows but it seems dehumanizing to
> say "You don't own this."
Well technically you already don't own the software you buy. You should read
those EULAs sometime - scary stuff therein!
> > > > VIRTUAL REALITY IS ITS OWN REWARD
> > > Not really possible. Sure it could work but the problem you have is
one
> > > of security.
> >
> > <blink> This is Shadowrun man, have you checked out how the Matrix
works?
> > It's one giant security hole to begin with! Applications running
> > uncontrolled on servers by any old fool who logs on, persona programs
> > loading onto the telcos network, etc.
> >
> Yeah well you've got me there. grin. It's probably good to add that just
> because it's stupid doesn't mean it won't become adopted as a process.
I totally agree there - sometimes if its stupid, doesn't work, and requires
a lot of time to hammer into shape it STILL becomes the standard you have to
work with.
Ex: Military uses Sparcstations to run a client-server database application
called RDA. Other then that the machines don't really do anything. It's
slow, they raped Solaris for security reasons, and don't give users UNIX
training - yet we have to use it.
> > I'm not sure what you're arguing against here. I was a little loose with
the
> > definition of "network" but I never said it broadcasted to the Matrix
as
a
> > whole.
> >
> In a nutshell it wouldn't necessarily be easy to pop devices on the
> network. But then I contradict myself with a counter-example so take what
> you will from that. It's a minor point.
I agree with you that you simply won't be able to hook up your Chimpokomon
Action Decker (with Kung Fu Grip!) and suddenly it "pops" onto the Matrix.
Of course then we have to get around to explaining HOW or even WHY objects
have icons to begin with.
> > > I suppose one way you might be able to do this is if there is
unlimitted
> > > IP space you could give any given customer a block so large they'd
never
> > > fill it, then you'd be fine. It wouldn't require any recognition by
the
> > > upstream routers however because the entire block already routes.
> >
<Jackpoints>
> Yup, it does. I've seen it, I didn't like it. But as I said, just
> because it reflects real life more doesn't mean it's more fun in a game.
Grr ;)
> Sometimes you can fake them. A good example was MacOS9, which could
> emulate Windows faster than it would run natively on a PC with similar
> speed. This would be invisible to the average matrix user.
I'm skeptical of that claim. They must have sacrified compatibility for
speed or really be banging the hardware to get as much speed as possible.
And then of course we have a RISC processor emulating CISC instructions and
possibly converting Win OS calls to MacOC etc.
> > Well, in the case of the Matrix there are agreed on standards. We know
this
> > because it says so (ie the brief discussion on UMS in VR1, etc)
> >
> Got me there. grin
To be my own griper here I must note that Shadowrun canon contradicts itself
a lot, and even The Matrix introduces a lot of wierdness (incompatible
writer viewpoints). You Have Been Warned.
> > > > Reality Filters
> > Well, if you set it up to just ignore the data then it probably would.
If
> > you had the filter render everything in 2d or trideo that would cut out
all
> > the overhead from simsense processing etc. Bandwidth is not unlimited in
SR
> > though, so it could be an important point. Also note that in my
technical
> > world view its the PERSONA program loaded onto the grid that converts
the
> > data and sends it to the user for interpretation by the OS. You could
set
> > the persona program (Sensor in this case) to filter out stuff right from
the
> > beginning, you simply would never see it on your end (and cut down on
> > bandwidth). In SR this is represented by various deck modes and
readjusting
> > your persona program ratings.
> >
> That makes sense. It would also mean a persona would borrow some of the
> node's processing cycles to do its thing, which is interesting.
I'll cehck my text and see what I can post of my text on how persona
programs work and why. I personally thought it was pretty good. YMMV.
> > In Shadowrun that would take a few turns (maybe a minute or so max).
Which
> > all things considering is insanely fast if there is anything in your
way.
> >
> That's still pretty long to get a shutdown command off. In unix you can
> shutdown the server less than a second after you type the command. Old
> school sysadmins would pitch a fit if it changed. That's not to say it
> couldn't or wouldn't, grin.
True. Of course it only takes forever in the bad old system. In VR2 you cold
technically try a System Test right off the bat. Which IMHO is a FAR
superior way of handling things.
>
> > And nodes are SR canon, just look at SR2 or VR1.
> >
> Yup. The Matrix stuff tho seems to have been written by folks that
> didn't know anything about how things really worked. But then again
> Gibson did the same. I guess it just depends to what level of detail you
> go to.
And where you want to sacrifice logic for playability. Psychotropic IC is
bogus six ways to Sunday and even contradicts other parts of SR - but from
what I've been told its one of the most popular parts of VR2 and will thus
remain in SR forever. Even I gave in to that heh
> > Exactly. Shadowruns Matrix is pretty laughable from a computer dork
> > perspective but it's the best computer system in a CP game (or other for
> > that matter) that manages to at least have some suspension of disbelief
and
> > remain playable.
> >
> You're absolutely right. The job of the Matrix rules is to provide an
> enjoyable game, not reflect reality.
For the other end of the spectrum we have CP2020's NetRunning system. OMFG
what a worthless hunk of rules ;) I love CP2020 but egads that system has to
go.
> > It does work in SR, practical or not (I'm going with NOT!) but its how
the
> > MAtrix worked in SR before VR2. I'm just trying to explain it somewhat
> > logically <g>
> >
> I'm with you there.
Or more exactly, to provide a way to use those old system maps from the old
adventures with the VR2/TM rules.
> > But bandwidth can be severely throttled or they could be confined to
their
> > own piddly memory spaces and not allowed to play in the big sandbox (ie
they
> > use something like java for all system interface tasks). That somewhat
> > explains the difficulty of logging on at the companies soda machine.
> That's correct. You don't see it done often as a security measure, but
> that doesn't mean it's not done at all.
Bandwidth throttling and security decker tricks are also going to be in the
VR3 netbook. I think I'll post that next.
> All in all it looks fine
Thanks!
Kenneth
