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Message no. 1
From: Geoff Skellams <geoff.skellams@*********.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Virtual Seattle and the RPGA
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 10:58:06 +1000
On Shadowrun Discussion, Erik Jameson[SMTP:erikj@****.COM] wrote:
> At 02:59 PM 8/7/98 +1000, you wrote:
> >> Okay, I've read all the info on the web site.
> >> My next question is, why?
> >>
> > Basically, I suspect that people like the concept of owning a
> >character that they created and being able to play at conventions.
>
> Okay, that I can see. But the limitations on sourcebooks would just
drive
> me up a wall. How long has Awakenings been out? And it's still not
> accepted within VS? And *how* long did it take for Initiation to be
allowed?
>
There are a few things that need to be fixed, so I might have a
word with Uncle Wes when he gets back from Gencon (God it would be nice
to be able to go overseas to Gencon every year and call it a tax
deduction). I see if I can get some answers on those questions.
AFAIK, it took about three years to get initiation. I think that
time was basically so the powers that be could figure out how to do it.
That's just a guess on my part though. Because you don't play with the
same group all the time, it makes the concept of a magical group a lot
harder.
I suspect the reason Awakenings is not included is because it
makes mages that much more powerful and I think Uncle Wes is trying to
keep the powergaming aspect out of the campaign as much as possible.
That was the reason FoF was excldued for so long - the weapons and stuff
like that were a lot nastier than the stuff in the other books and it
was thought it would give the players too much of an advantage.

> >> So why join? Why have anything to do with the RPGA or Virtual
> >Seattle? I
> >> just don't see any benefit to the SR player or GM, but maybe I'm
> >missing
> >> something.
>
> >a hell of a lot easier than running one by yourself. For starters,
the
> >RPGA organises everything for you. You just show up, collect the
> >character and scoring packet and go run your session. They organise
> >prizes and everything else for you. It also means that your games
don't
> >have to have more than about 6 players (I played a single NON-RPGA
GURPS
> >game and it had *13* players. It was total crap).
>
> Okay, this is cool, mostly. After all the teeth-pulling I did with
FASA to
> get prizes for my game and the rest of Comicon, they said they've
shipped
> them out twice now (or were going to) and I still haven't seen my
prizes
> show up. Beginning to piss me off too.
>
That would be annoying, so I can sympathise with you on that
one.

> As for players, I think that's just gotta be up to the GM. I'm
allowing 8
> people in my SR3 game, 9 if Jak Koke decides to play. As GM, I'm
willing
> to allow that and I'm also willing to take control as needed to keep
things
> in check. Of course, the fact that I'm an adult probably helps a bit
there
> too; I could see small geeky teenaged GMs potentially having problems
> controlling a dozen other gamers.
>
I personally don't like running more than five or six. I feel
that beyond that, it's too easy to "lose" people. I try and involve
everybody, especially with the ones who seem to be hanging back and not
doing anything. With an increase to about 8, it becomes so much harder
to do that.
At Australian cons, people enter in teams, rather than as
individuals, and the team plays everything together. Over the past
couple of years, the standard number of players in a team has been set
at five, which is why most games coming out of Australia use that as the
team size.

> >The RPGA are also keep their modules in an archive, so if you are
> >running a convention you can write to them and "buy" modules from
them
>
> Saw that. This is cool. I'd actually really like to see the one that
you
> did. I'd also like to get some feel for the general quality of those
> things. IF they are good enough, I might consider at least doing the
free
> level of membership.
>
I haven't played many RPGA SR games that weren't written by
someone I know. "A Late Night's Shopping" is NOT a typical shadowrun
scenario (as it has been mentioned before). One of my old flatmates has
written a few standard SR games that have been sponsored by the RPGA,
and the ones I have played have all be excellent. Like all con games,
the quality of the games varies according to who wrote them. The way I
look at it, if you want the quality of the games to improve, sometimes
you have to do something about it yourself :)

> >I guess what you get out of an RPGA membership depends on what you
want
> >it for.
>
> Well, you're welcome to play in any game I run, RPGA or not. I
suppose
> that if FASA ran VS, I'd join because that'd increase my chances of
getting
> SR swag for free.
>
I know FASA gets sent a copy of EVERY VS module before it is
run, just so that it gets checked to make sure they agree with it. What
that entails I really don't know. It also has to get past Uncle Wes to
make sure that it doesn't violate the VS rules (strange as some of those
may be).

> So what sort of prizes are common for these things anyway? IF my FASA
> prizes ever actually show up, what do you think might be included?
I'm
> curious to see what I'm probably going to be missing...

Wellll, out here, we get RPGA gift vouchers, which we can redeem
with a mail order company in Melbourne. They let us buy anything we
like, including SR stuff (which is how I have bought quite a lot of
stuff). In the US, I'm not sure. I have a feeling that the RPGA vouchers
can only be redeemed at a TSR mail order thingy. BUT, I know that the
guy who won the VS tournament overall at Gencon 94 and IIRC he won about
$200 worth of FASA stuff. So I suspect that there is some serious
corporate sponsorship, at least of the bigger conventions. I have no
idea what "Chip" (his real name was Chris, but someone stuffed up, so he
has been "Chip" to us ever since) ended up getting, but I think he was
pretty happy with it.
I can email Chip and find out for you if you like. Or
alternatively, I'll ask Uncle Wes next time I talk to him. I have to ask
him a couple of things anyway.
In terms of the things you can expect, I suspect that you will
see copies of some of the latest FASA stuff. Either that, or you will
see gift vouchers redeemable through the FASA mail order shop. The later
might be easier for everyone - it's easier to ship to those concerned
and it lets the prize-winner pick what they want. If you don't get
anything soon, I'd consider asking them if they would be willing to do
something like that.

cheers
G
--
Geoff Skellams R&D - Tower Software
Email Address: geoff.skellams@*********.com.au
Homepage: http://www.towersoft.com.au/staff/geoff/
ICQ Number: 2815165

"That rates about a 9.5 on my weird-shit-o-meter"
- Will Smith in "Men in Black"
Message no. 2
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Virtual Seattle and the RPGA
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 16:39:39 -0400
At 10:58 AM 8/11/98 +1000, you wrote:

> There are a few things that need to be fixed, so I might have a
>word with Uncle Wes when he gets back from Gencon (God it would be nice
>to be able to go overseas to Gencon every year and call it a tax
>deduction). I see if I can get some answers on those questions.

I would further guess that SR3 isn't going to be introduced speedily
either. Tres annoying.

> I personally don't like running more than five or six. I feel

That is probably an ideal number. But since I'm intending on running SR3,
or at least some sort of SR2/SR3 hybrid, I'm anticipating a larger response
and I wanted to be able to accomodate that. I already have 4 slots filled;
that leaves only four more, plus Jak if he wants.

>that beyond that, it's too easy to "lose" people. I try and involve
>everybody, especially with the ones who seem to be hanging back and not
>doing anything. With an increase to about 8, it becomes so much harder
>to do that.

True, it can be. But as some of you can probably guess, I have little
problem raising my voice and taking charge, regardless of what it takes.
That and I intend on having a fair amount of stuff done ahead of the game.

> At Australian cons, people enter in teams, rather than as
>individuals, and the team plays everything together. Over the past
>couple of years, the standard number of players in a team has been set
>at five, which is why most games coming out of Australia use that as the
>team size.

Now this is pretty cool.

> I haven't played many RPGA SR games that weren't written by
>someone I know. "A Late Night's Shopping" is NOT a typical shadowrun
>scenario (as it has been mentioned before). One of my old flatmates has
>written a few standard SR games that have been sponsored by the RPGA,
>and the ones I have played have all be excellent. Like all con games,
>the quality of the games varies according to who wrote them. The way I
>look at it, if you want the quality of the games to improve, sometimes
>you have to do something about it yourself :)

Would it be at all possible for me to, in any way, get a look at one of
these things? Considering the (IMNSHO) quality of most adventures
available on the Internet, I'm a bit gunshy.

> I can email Chip and find out for you if you like. Or
>alternatively, I'll ask Uncle Wes next time I talk to him. I have to ask
>him a couple of things anyway.

I would like to know what sort of prizes VS could provide. If I was given
a voucher good for TSR stuff I'd probably give it right back to the GM and
say thanks but no thanks.

>and it lets the prize-winner pick what they want. If you don't get
>anything soon, I'd consider asking them if they would be willing to do
>something like that.

I sent another e-mail to Rett proposing such a thing, since it's not
entirely likely they will be able to get prizes out to me in time for
in-person distribution. I'm still holding out hope though.

One way or another, I'll report back to the list next week with what
happened at my SR3 Comicon game this Saturday, prizes and Jak Koke or not.

Thanks Geoff.

Erik the Impatient


http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/dungeon/480/index.html
The Reality Check for a Fictional World
Message no. 3
From: Geoff Skellams <geoff.skellams@*********.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Virtual Seattle and the RPGA
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 10:20:48 +1000
On Shadowrun Discussion, Erik Jameson[SMTP:erikj@****.COM] wrote:
> At 10:58 AM 8/11/98 +1000, you wrote:
>
> > There are a few things that need to be fixed, so I might have
a
> >word with Uncle Wes when he gets back from Gencon (God it would be
nice
> >to be able to go overseas to Gencon every year and call it a tax
> >deduction). I see if I can get some answers on those questions.
>
> I would further guess that SR3 isn't going to be introduced speedily
> either. Tres annoying.
>
I think the official reason is to wait 6 months so people can
buy the new books, and so that the organisers have time to go through it
and find out if there is anything that is likely to upset the campaign
world.

> >that beyond that, it's too easy to "lose" people. I try and involve
> >everybody, especially with the ones who seem to be hanging back and
not
> >doing anything. With an increase to about 8, it becomes so much
harder
> >to do that.
>
> True, it can be. But as some of you can probably guess, I have little
> problem raising my voice and taking charge, regardless of what it
takes.
> That and I intend on having a fair amount of stuff done ahead of the
game.
>
"Every little bit helps," said the monkey as he pissed in the
ocean :) Somehow I don't doubt you can out shout everyone. But there are
times when it takes more than that - some people just manage to vanish
into the chair and don't WANT to say anything. Can be a real bastard
when that happens, especially if their character has been designed to be
an integral part of the team (which is the ideal situation).

> > At Australian cons, people enter in teams, rather than as
> >individuals, and the team plays everything together. Over the past
> >couple of years, the standard number of players in a team has been
set
> >at five, which is why most games coming out of Australia use that as
the
> >team size.
>
> Now this is pretty cool.
>
It can be. Out here, people can come up with some pretty amazing
team names, and some of us go to great lengths to look like a team. I've
been a member of a few teams, but the main ones were "Die
Unausprechlichen Lauten" (which we translated as "The Unspeakable
Louts") and "Toad Elevating Moment". The Toads have become rather
infamous, mainly because we always try to wear a team t-shirt we get
specially printed, and we all have a different silly hat for each
convention.
On a more serious note, it does help in games where team work is
important - because you are gaming with the same group of people all the
time, you know how they tend to think and react in certain situations.
The Toads tend to do well at the tactical level games (it also helps
that we have a couple of pretty rabid shadowrun players as well).

<<<SNIP description of quality of VS games>>>

> Would it be at all possible for me to, in any way, get a look at one
of
> these things? Considering the (IMNSHO) quality of most adventures
> available on the Internet, I'm a bit gunshy.
>
I'll see what I can do for you. I'm not promising anything
though :)

> >and it lets the prize-winner pick what they want. If you don't get
> >anything soon, I'd consider asking them if they would be willing to
do
> >something like that.
>
> I sent another e-mail to Rett proposing such a thing, since it's not
> entirely likely they will be able to get prizes out to me in time for
> in-person distribution. I'm still holding out hope though.
>
Well, sounds like the people at FASA have had Gencon on the
brain for a while. You might get lucky yet. There's still a few days
between now and Friday :)

> One way or another, I'll report back to the list next week with what
> happened at my SR3 Comicon game this Saturday, prizes and Jak Koke or
not.
>
Sounds good. I for one would like to hear how things go.

> Thanks Geoff.
>
My pleasure. Anytime.

cheer
G
--
Geoff Skellams R&D - Tower Software
Email Address: geoff.skellams@*********.com.au
Homepage: http://www.towersoft.com.au/staff/geoff/
ICQ Number: 2815165

"That rates about a 9.5 on my weird-shit-o-meter"
- Will Smith in "Men in Black"
Message no. 4
From: Randy Nickel <LrdDrgn@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Virtual Seattle and the RPGA
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 00:46:56 EDT
In a message dated 8/11/98 1:46:12 PM Pacific Daylight Time, erikj@****.COM
writes:

> One way or another, I'll report back to the list next week with what
> happened at my SR3 Comicon game this Saturday, prizes and Jak Koke or not.
>
> Thanks Geoff.
>
> Erik the Impatient

I missed the original post on Virtual Seattle. Could someone fill me in on
what that is? I already know what the RPGA is.

Otter
Message no. 5
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Virtual Seattle and the RPGA
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 12:54:32 -0400
At 10:20 AM 8/12/98 +1000, you wrote:

>> I would further guess that SR3 isn't going to be introduced speedily
>> either. Tres annoying.
>>
> I think the official reason is to wait 6 months so people can
>buy the new books, and so that the organisers have time to go through it
>and find out if there is anything that is likely to upset the campaign
>world.

ShadowTK is doing that sort of too, but we'll begin conversion next month
sometime. Of course, with TK, we really need to know how to write a bit of
fiction to cover any changes from SR2 to SR3 more than anything else, like
actually incorporate any rule changes.

> "Every little bit helps," said the monkey as he pissed in the
>ocean :) Somehow I don't doubt you can out shout everyone. But there are
>times when it takes more than that - some people just manage to vanish
>into the chair and don't WANT to say anything. Can be a real bastard
>when that happens, especially if their character has been designed to be
>an integral part of the team (which is the ideal situation).

Oh, it's less about shouting than it is making it perfectly clear, through
eye contact, posture, tone of voice and word selection, that I am in
command and in control.

And I've tried not to make any single PC "integral" by design. And since
I'm not planning on writing down any rigid adventure, that gives me a
tremendous amount of flexibility based on PC selection and the players'
themselves. I just have to make sure I know, in my head, certain key
things and events backwards and forwards.

> It can be. Out here, people can come up with some pretty amazing
>team names, and some of us go to great lengths to look like a team. I've
>been a member of a few teams, but the main ones were "Die
>Unausprechlichen Lauten" (which we translated as "The Unspeakable
>Louts") and "Toad Elevating Moment". The Toads have become rather
>infamous, mainly because we always try to wear a team t-shirt we get
>specially printed, and we all have a different silly hat for each
>convention.

Now this just rocks. I don't get the impression this occurs very often at
all. I will say, however, that the four slots filled in my game are all
players that game together normally, so I've got at least half a team
already. Considering one of them is Mike Paff (who I gather some of you
met, and got to the second round of the tourny), I'm expecting good things.

Thanks again Geoff.

BTW, for the person that recently asked, Virtual Seattle is the Shadowrun
wing of the RPGA.

Erik the Impatient


http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/dungeon/480/index.html
The Reality Check for a Fictional World
Message no. 6
From: Geoff Skellams <geoff.skellams@*********.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Virtual Seattle and the RPGA
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 09:55:39 +1000
On Shadowrun Discussion, Erik Jameson[SMTP:erikj@****.COM] wrote:
> > It can be. Out here, people can come up with some pretty
amazing
> >team names, and some of us go to great lengths to look like a team.
I've
> >been a member of a few teams, but the main ones were "Die
> >Unausprechlichen Lauten" (which we translated as "The Unspeakable
> >Louts") and "Toad Elevating Moment". The Toads have become rather
> >infamous, mainly because we always try to wear a team t-shirt we get
> >specially printed, and we all have a different silly hat for each
> >convention.
>
> Now this just rocks. I don't get the impression this occurs very
often at
> all. I will say, however, that the four slots filled in my game are
all
> players that game together normally, so I've got at least half a team
> already. Considering one of them is Mike Paff (who I gather some of
you
> met, and got to the second round of the tourny), I'm expecting good
things.
>
Well, it's the norm out here. Because of that, people tend to
frown and complain a lot about going to Gencon - they're too afraid to
game with people they don't know. It is possible to enter as an
individual, but it is usually frowned upon, mainly because you get stuck
with playing with just anyone and it also causes nightmares for the
schedulers, who are geared towards slotting teams into events.

> Thanks again Geoff.
>
Again, Nyet Problemski.

> BTW, for the person that recently asked, Virtual Seattle is the
Shadowrun
> wing of the RPGA.

This is not strictly accurate. Virtual Seattle is the name of an
ongoing campaign of Shadowrun games at conventions. There are a quirky
set of rules about character generation (some of which are ok, some of
which are rather silly). You get to create your own character and keep
bringing that character to different conventions and different games. In
between, you get to advance it, just like you would in a home campaign.
The RPGA have an archive of games that I have mentioned before.
There is nothing stopping you from writing and running a "classic"
Shadowrun adventure, where the writer supplies the characters that are
tailored to the adventure. The RPGA has an experience points scheme,
where you advance separately in Classic and Campaign games. Campaign
covers not only VS, but also the AD&D Living City (which sucks the big
one IMHO), AD&D Living Jungle (a tribal thing on an isolated plateau -
something I am warming to), AD&D Living Death (using the Victorian age
Horror version of the Ravenloft setting - something else I am going to
be looking into), Earthdawn's Threads of Legend Campaign and the
boringly named Star Wars Bring-Your-Own-Character campaigns.

cheers
G
--
Geoff Skellams R&D - Tower Software
Email Address: geoff.skellams@*********.com.au
Homepage: http://www.towersoft.com.au/staff/geoff/
ICQ Number: 2815165

"That rates about a 9.5 on my weird-shit-o-meter"
- Will Smith in "Men in Black"

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Virtual Seattle and the RPGA, you may also be interested in:

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