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Message no. 1
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: VR2.0 error?
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 1995 12:01:35 +0100
I think I've spotted a small, but important, mistake in VR2. In the Deck
Components Prices Table on page 89, the cool ASIST interface costs (MPCP^2
x (PF x 20)) + (MPCP x 25)

I think it should read "PF + 20" instead of "PF x 20," seeing that in
a
hot deck the same bit is "(PF x 2) + 40"

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Just think that everything you touch can turn to gold.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Character Mortuary: http://huizen.dds.nl/~mortuary/mortuary.html <-

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Message no. 2
From: sedahdro@*****.com (Victor Rodriguez, Jr)
Subject: Re: VR2.0 error?
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 95 19:47 EST
>I think I've spotted a small, but important, mistake in VR2. In the Deck
>Components Prices Table on page 89, the cool ASIST interface costs (MPCP^2
>x (PF x 20)) + (MPCP x 25)
>
>I think it should read "PF + 20" instead of "PF x 20," seeing that
in a
>hot deck the same bit is "(PF x 2) + 40"
I think your right, but why would someone want a cool deck anyway? Any
decker in his right mind would get the hot one, since if you get scared you
could always switch to cool mode. :)
---Sedah Drol
--
ATTN: Due to lack of interest, tomorrow has been canceled.
GC3.1
GO>CS d- s:--- a21 C++++>$ U--- P L-- E? W+>W+++ N o? K? w+>w++++ O--- M-- V
PS+++ PE Y+ PGP- t++ 5+ X++ R++>+++$ tv++ b- DI++ D+ G++ e* h r++ y++
Message no. 3
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: VR2.0 error?
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 11:57:29 +0100
Victor Rodriguez, Jr said on 17 Dec 95...

> I think your right, but why would someone want a cool deck anyway? Any
> decker in his right mind would get the hot one, since if you get scared you
> could always switch to cool mode. :)

How about the money? I created a decker yesterday, and originally went for
400K nuyen starting cash. Before I had even put together the whole deck I
was spending more than that, without _any_ programs. This was an MPCP
7/5/5/6/5 deck with Hardening 4, 1 level Response increase, 1000Mp active
and storage, 300MePS I/O speed, and a hot ASIST interface. 438,455 nuyen
for the whole works :) I then switched to a million and went for an
8/6/6/6/6 deck...
(BTW, I'm writing a Visual Basic program to do all those design cost
calculations.)

Cyberdecks cost massive amounts of money...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Just think that everything you touch can turn to gold.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Character Mortuary: http://huizen.dds.nl/~mortuary/mortuary.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
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Message no. 4
From: sedahdro@*****.com (Victor Rodriguez, Jr)
Subject: Re: VR2.0 error?
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 95 14:03 EST
>Victor Rodriguez, Jr said on 17 Dec 95...
>
>> I think your right, but why would someone want a cool deck anyway? Any
>> decker in his right mind would get the hot one, since if you get scared you
>> could always switch to cool mode. :)
>
>How about the money? I created a decker yesterday, and originally went for
>400K nuyen starting cash. Before I had even put together the whole deck I
>was spending more than that, without _any_ programs. This was an MPCP
>7/5/5/6/5 deck with Hardening 4, 1 level Response increase, 1000Mp active
>and storage, 300MePS I/O speed, and a hot ASIST interface. 438,455 nuyen
>for the whole works :) I then switched to a million and went for an
>8/6/6/6/6 deck...
>(BTW, I'm writing a Visual Basic program to do all those design cost
>calculations.)
>
>Cyberdecks cost massive amounts of money...
Are you planning on running this decker, if so, ask your GM if your decker
can build/write his starting deck/programs as long as you spend lifestyle
(probably mid) for twice the amount of time spent working on them. BTW, its
also alot cheaper if you buy a permanent midlifestyle instead. Of course
you'll have a starting character with an ager around 30.
---Sedah Drol
--
ATTN: Due to lack of interest, tomorrow has been canceled.
GC3.1
GO>CS d- s:--- a21 C++++>$ U--- P L-- E? W+>W+++ N o? K? w+>w++++ O--- M-- V
PS+++ PE Y+ PGP- t++ 5+ X++ R++>+++$ tv++ b- DI++ D+ G++ e* h r++ y++
Message no. 5
From: dmccraw@*****.aix.calpoly.edu
Subject: Re: VR2.0 error?
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 12:26:15 -0800 (PST)
In a previous letter,
>
>>Victor Rodriguez, Jr said on 17 Dec 95...
>>
>>> I think your right, but why would someone want a cool deck anyway? Any
>>> decker in his right mind would get the hot one, since if you get scared you
>>> could always switch to cool mode. :)
>>
>>How about the money? I created a decker yesterday, and originally went for
>>400K nuyen starting cash. Before I had even put together the whole deck I
>>was spending more than that, without _any_ programs. This was an MPCP
>>7/5/5/6/5 deck with Hardening 4, 1 level Response increase, 1000Mp active
>>and storage, 300MePS I/O speed, and a hot ASIST interface. 438,455 nuyen
>>for the whole works :) I then switched to a million and went for an
>>8/6/6/6/6 deck...
>>(BTW, I'm writing a Visual Basic program to do all those design cost
>>calculations.)

I was working on a list of cyberdecks you can buy full out. A pre
packaged deals, one by Fuchi and one by this and that and so on.

>>
>>Cyberdecks cost massive amounts of money...
>Are you planning on running this decker, if so, ask your GM if your decker
>can build/write his starting deck/programs as long as you spend lifestyle
>(probably mid) for twice the amount of time spent working on them. BTW, its
>also alot cheaper if you buy a permanent midlifestyle instead. Of course
>you'll have a starting character with an ager around 30.
> ---Sedah Drol
>--

If a decker built his own deck and it took two years. He would already be
out of the SOTA. His deck would be obsolete. I takes a long time to build
a deck and the design at the beginning would be outdated by the time he got
it finished. I don't let any of my deckers build thier own deck from
scratch. They may piece it together and work on parts of it but not the
whole thing.


dustin
--
???? ????
? ? The key to success is knowledge, ? ?
? now where is that lock....? ?
* Dustin J. McCraw dmccraw@****.calpoly.edu *
Message no. 6
From: Jason Messer <bitter@****.ncn.com>
Subject: Re: VR2.0 error?
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 14:55:02 -0800
> If a decker built his own deck and it took two years. He would already be
>out of the SOTA. His deck would be obsolete. I takes a long time to build
>a deck and the design at the beginning would be outdated by the time he got
>it finished. I don't let any of my deckers build thier own deck from
>scratch. They may piece it together and work on parts of it but not the
>whole thing.

Don't works in progress stay SOTA automatically?
It could cause a play balance problem if you disregard time when creating
the decker. I like the idea of charging lifestyle cost for pre-play time
spent programing/chip cooking.Maybe place a limit based on Computer skill
and/or resources priority for the amount of homebaked stuff you allow the
decker to start out with.
========================+=====================+
mov si, seg loc_buff | "double ewe" |
mov ds, si | "double you" |
mov si, offset loc_buff | "double u" |
mov ax, 5F04h | "dot fearNloathing" |
int 21h | "dot com" |
========================+=====================+
Message no. 7
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: VR2.0 error?
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 12:09:36 +0100
Victor Rodriguez, Jr said on 18 Dec 95...

> >Cyberdecks cost massive amounts of money...

> Are you planning on running this decker,

Yes. Brian McCallister advertised a PBEM on this list a few days ago,
that's where this char's going to...

> if so, ask your GM if your decker
> can build/write his starting deck/programs as long as you spend lifestyle
> (probably mid) for twice the amount of time spent working on them. BTW, its
> also alot cheaper if you buy a permanent midlifestyle instead. Of course
> you'll have a starting character with an ager around 30.

I went fo buying the whole load of stuff instead. Writing them would
definittely have been cheaper, but I've seen a decker being built that way
once (under VR1 rules). Took her three years to build the deck and write
the utilities...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Not today -- it's only Tuesday.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Character Mortuary: http://huizen.dds.nl/~mortuary/mortuary.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
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Message no. 8
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: VR2.0 error?
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 12:09:36 +0100
Jason Messer said on 18 Dec 95...

> Don't works in progress stay SOTA automatically?

For programs you're writing, I'd say they do. For hardware, well... An
acquaintance of mine has been building a PC for some time now (buying
stuff when he has enough money to spare) and he said it's already starting
to resemble the "System Requirements" listed with new software, even
though it's not even finished yet...
Of course, incorporating SOTA into deck design before the game even begins
is asking for lots of tedious calculations and a technology curve you
can't even hope to stay up with, IMHO...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Not today -- it's only Tuesday.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Character Mortuary: http://huizen.dds.nl/~mortuary/mortuary.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X+ R+++>$ tv+(++) b+@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(--) y?
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Message no. 9
From: grahamdrew grahamdrew@*********.com
Subject: VR 2.0 Error?
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 14:20:52 -0500
I was leafing through VR 2.0 and I happ4ened upon the "Condition Montor
Table) on page 124. It says that you fill in 1 box for light, 2 for
mod, 3 for serious, and 6 for a deadly. I thought that sounded odd so I
checked a standard condition monitor and that's 1/3/6/10.

I tried to verify it with the condition monitor on the cyberdeck record
worksheet, but it's the same as a standard condition monitor for
everything else. Am I just missing something or is thins blatantly
wrong?
--
Sanity is in the left pinky of the beholder
Message no. 10
From: Mongoose m0ng005e@*********.com
Subject: VR 2.0 Error?
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 15:51:54 -0600
:I was leafing through VR 2.0 and I happ4ened upon the "Condition Montor
:Table) on page 124. It says that you fill in 1 box for light, 2 for
:mod, 3 for serious, and 6 for a deadly. I thought that sounded odd so I
:checked a standard condition monitor and that's 1/3/6/10.
:
:I tried to verify it with the condition monitor on the cyberdeck record
:worksheet, but it's the same as a standard condition monitor for
:everything else. Am I just missing something or is thins blatantly
:wrong?
:--
:Sanity is in the left pinky of the beholder
:


It is an error. Cyberdeck and cybercombat damage uses the same
Condition monitor as normal, and L/M/S/D damage fills in 1,3,6, or 10
boxes.

Mongoose
Message no. 11
From: Lady Jestyr jestyr@*******.com.au
Subject: VR 2.0 Error?
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 11:35:12 +1000
>I was leafing through VR 2.0 and I happ4ened upon the "Condition Montor
>Table) on page 124. It says that you fill in 1 box for light, 2 for
>mod, 3 for serious, and 6 for a deadly. I thought that sounded odd so I
>checked a standard condition monitor and that's 1/3/6/10.
>
>I tried to verify it with the condition monitor on the cyberdeck record
>worksheet, but it's the same as a standard condition monitor for
>everything else. Am I just missing something or is thins blatantly
>wrong?

Nope, I'm pretty sure that's the way it works in the Matrix - 1/2/3/6.
However, you also get TWO Complex Actions in every action phase, so it does
even out.


Lady Jestyr

Quantum physics is God's way of saying "Ha! Solve THAT!"
jestyr@*******.com.au | URL: http://www.geocities.com/~jestyr
Message no. 12
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: VR 2.0 Error?
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 11:25:31 +0100
According to grahamdrew, at 14:20 on 13 Mar 99, the word on
the street was...

> I was leafing through VR 2.0 and I happ4ened upon the "Condition Montor
> Table) on page 124. It says that you fill in 1 box for light, 2 for
> mod, 3 for serious, and 6 for a deadly. I thought that sounded odd so I
> checked a standard condition monitor and that's 1/3/6/10.

I've always regarded that 1/2/3/6 thing as a typo; there is no mention
anywhere (except in the bit you're referring to) that decking would use
different wound levels. I'm pretty sure that if it did, it would have been
mentioned explicitly in the text near the table on page 124.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Hoera, we leven nog!
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 13
From: grahamdrew grahamdrew@*********.com
Subject: VR 2.0 Error?
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 11:44:25 -0500
Lady Jestyr wrote:
>
> >I was leafing through VR 2.0 and I happ4ened upon the "Condition Montor
> >Table) on page 124. It says that you fill in 1 box for light, 2 for
> >mod, 3 for serious, and 6 for a deadly. I thought that sounded odd so I
> >checked a standard condition monitor and that's 1/3/6/10.
> >
> >I tried to verify it with the condition monitor on the cyberdeck record
> >worksheet, but it's the same as a standard condition monitor for
> >everything else. Am I just missing something or is thins blatantly
> >wrong?
>
> Nope, I'm pretty sure that's the way it works in the Matrix - 1/2/3/6.
> However, you also get TWO Complex Actions in every action phase, so it does
> even out.

Umm, what? That can't be right at all.. you sure you don't mean two
simple actions, or am I even more screwed than I though?
>
> Lady Jestyr
>
> Quantum physics is God's way of saying "Ha! Solve THAT!"
> jestyr@*******.com.au | URL: http://www.geocities.com/~jestyr

--
Sanity is in the left pinky of the beholder
Message no. 14
From: Mongoose m0ng005e@*********.com
Subject: VR 2.0 Error?
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 00:55:41 -0600
:>I tried to verify it with the condition monitor on the cyberdeck record
:>worksheet, but it's the same as a standard condition monitor for
:>everything else. Am I just missing something or is thins blatantly
:>wrong?
:
:Nope, I'm pretty sure that's the way it works in the Matrix - 1/2/3/6.

Sr3 does not mention any diffrence in cybercombat damage. It just
says that attacks do L/M/S/D. It does explicitely say cyberdecks use the
normal damage track (p.226) , and it mentions staging and dmage levels, so
the only logical conclusion is that the damage inflected at those levels
is the same as normal.
(I'm not ignoring Vr2, BTW- I just figured its best to check the most
recent and basic rulebook)

:However, you also get TWO Complex Actions in every action phase, so it
does
:even out.


You do? I've never noticed THAT anwhere... are you sure? Got a page
refrence? That seems awfully poweful, given some of the sytems
opperations a Complex action allows.
Perhaps you meant that cybercombat (attacking, positioning, or
parrying) is a Simple action in Sr3 / vr2, where it was (in sr2 / vr1) a
complex action to make a matrix attack?

BTW, one of the cool things in the new SRC is a complete list of all
free, simple, and complex actions, be the magical, combat, matrix,
vehicular, or whatever.


:Lady Jestyr


Mongoose
Message no. 15
From: sprites in the machine sprite@***.com
Subject: VR 2.0 Error?
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 20:17:56 -0600
The original question:
>>I was leafing through VR 2.0 and I happ4ened upon the "Condition Montor
>>Table) on page 124. It says that you fill in 1 box for light, 2 for
>>mod, 3 for serious, and 6 for a deadly. I thought that sounded odd so I
>>checked a standard condition monitor and that's 1/3/6/10.
>>
>>I tried to verify it with the condition monitor on the cyberdeck record
>>worksheet, but it's the same as a standard condition monitor for
>>everything else. Am I just missing something or is thins blatantly
>>wrong?


Lady Jestyr replied:
>Nope, I'm pretty sure that's the way it works in the Matrix - 1/2/3/6.
>However, you also get TWO Complex Actions in every action phase, so it does
>even out.


Actually, the damage condition monitor in VR2 is wrong, use the normal one.
It's in the VR2 Errata, which we'll release someday. ;>

LJ, I'm not sure where you're getting that two Complex Action thing from,
but I'm sure its incorrect.

Rob Boyle
Message no. 16
From: Lady Jestyr jestyr@*******.com.au
Subject: VR 2.0 Error?
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 07:02:49 +1000
>LJ, I'm not sure where you're getting that two Complex Action thing from,
>but I'm sure its incorrect.

Whoops... how embarrassing. :-) *blinks mildly* Now, I wonder how that idea
got stuck in my head...?

Anyway, pardon me, folks... must have been having a blonde day again. :-)

(On a completely non-related note, how do you lot, who save all the list
mail, cope?! I've only got list mail saved since last August and Eudora
still gets grumpy when I ask it to open the ShadowRN folder...)

Lady Jestyr

Quantum physics is God's way of saying "Ha! Solve THAT!"
jestyr@*******.com.au | URL: http://www.geocities.com/~jestyr
Message no. 17
From: Adam J adamj@*********.html.com
Subject: VR 2.0 Error?
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 14:24:37 -0700
At 07:02 3/15/99 +1000, Lady Jestyr wrote:

>Anyway, pardon me, folks... must have been having a blonde day again. :-)

And over, and over, and over.. :-)

>(On a completely non-related note, how do you lot, who save all the list
>mail, cope?! I've only got list mail saved since last August and Eudora
>still gets grumpy when I ask it to open the ShadowRN folder...)

Two folders -- ShadowRN, which at most holds about a couple days worth of
messges, and OldRNStuff, a folder for, well, older stuff that I'm saving. I
only need to dig in OldRNStuf every few days or so, so it's not tooo bad.

-Adam
--
< adamj@*********.html.com / http://shadowrun.html.com/tss >
< ICQ# 2350330 / ShadowFAQ: http://shadowrun.html.com/shadowfaq >
< ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader / Shadowrun Creative Resources >
< FreeRPG & Shadowrun Webring Co-Admin / The Shadowrun Supplemental >
< "She pretty much walks around perpetually pissed at Mick." >
< - Kevin Kelly, on professional wrestler Mick Foleys wife Colleen >
Message no. 18
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: VR 2.0 Error?
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 12:02:29 +0100
According to Lady Jestyr, at 7:02 on 15 Mar 99, the word on
the street was...

> (On a completely non-related note, how do you lot, who save all the list
> mail, cope?! I've only got list mail saved since last August and Eudora
> still gets grumpy when I ask it to open the ShadowRN folder...)

Only saving the posts you want to keep helps a lot. (Although I've already
saved about 60 posts since the list move...)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Hoera, we leven nog!
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 19
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: VR 2.0 Error?
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 12:02:29 +0100
According to sprites in the machine, at 20:17 on 13 Mar 99, the word on
the street was...

> LJ, I'm not sure where you're getting that two Complex Action thing from,
> but I'm sure its incorrect.

I think what Lady J means is that you can attack twice in an action in the
Matrix -- VR 2.0, page 121 lists the Simple Actions, and one of those is
"Attack" (with an offensive utility) while another is "Improvise
Attack"
(with a program created on the fly). SR3 page 224 also lists "Attack" as a
Simple Action.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Hoera, we leven nog!
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 20
From: Bai Shen baishen@**********.com
Subject: VR 2.0 Error?
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 21:06:34 -0400
> Nope, I'm pretty sure that's the way it works in the Matrix - 1/2/3/6.
> However, you also get TWO Complex Actions in every action phase, so it does
> even out.

Okay, maybe I missed this somewhere, but how do you get two complex
actions??
--
Bai Shen
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
http://www.series2000.com/users/baishen
UIN 3543257 (Don't ask to join if you aren't going to send me anything.)
Message no. 21
From: Bai Shen baishen@**********.com
Subject: VR 2.0 Error?
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 21:21:35 -0400
> (On a completely non-related note, how do you lot, who save all the list
> mail, cope?! I've only got list mail saved since last August and Eudora
> still gets grumpy when I ask it to open the ShadowRN folder...)

Umm, I only save messages containing cool stuff(ie background, rules,
stats, etc).
--
Bai Shen
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
http://www.series2000.com/users/baishen
UIN 3543257 (Don't ask to join if you aren't going to send me anything.)
Message no. 22
From: Marc Renouf renouf@********.com
Subject: VR 2.0 Error?
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 09:22:07 -0400 (EDT)
On Wed, 21 Apr 1999, Bai Shen wrote:

> > Nope, I'm pretty sure that's the way it works in the Matrix - 1/2/3/6.
> > However, you also get TWO Complex Actions in every action phase, so it does
> > even out.
>
> Okay, maybe I missed this somewhere, but how do you get two complex
> actions??

Hmmm, I'm not sure if you're reading mail in digest mode or not,
but the message you are replying to here is nearly a month old and has
been refuted. Either way, I'll give you a recap:
Basically, the consensus was that the 1/2/3/6 was in error, and
should be 1/3/6/10 as per normal. The reason that the original respondent
asserted that you get two complex actions was an honest misinterpretation
of the cybercombat rules. As published, you get two "attacks" in your
initiative phase. By equating cybercombat with melee combat, the
original post assumed that this meant two complex actions per turn, which
was in error (though an easy mistake to make given the general
error-filled nature of VR2.0).
Hence, the general consensus was that executing an attack program
is actually a *simple* action, analogous to firing a semiautomatic weapon
once. This is borne out when looking at the list of what operations
require certain levels of action (sorry, don't have the book in front of
me so I can't give you a page number).
Hope this clears up the confusion.

Marc Renouf
Research Engineer
ERIM International

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