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Message no. 1
From: shadowrn@*********.com (BD)
Subject: Wacky Tobacky in the new '60s.
Date: Tue Sep 18 22:55:01 2001
Just curious as to what you guys think marijuana's legal status would be
in the 2060s, for the various North American countries. You figure it'd be
legal 100 years later? Controlled? Vanished through some strange sequence
of events?

====-Boondocker

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Message no. 2
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Jonathan)
Subject: Wacky Tobacky in the new '60s.
Date: Tue Sep 18 23:30:07 2001
----- Original Message -----
From: "BD" <l3oondocker@*****.com>
To: "ShadowRN" <shadowrn@*********.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2001 12:21 AM
Subject: Wacky Tobacky in the new '60s.


> Just curious as to what you guys think marijuana's legal status would be
> in the 2060s, for the various North American countries. You figure it'd
be
> legal 100 years later? Controlled? Vanished through some strange
sequence
> of events?
>

Somehow I don't think drugs are that big a factor anymore. Gotta remember
its an age with BTL chips. I imagine the drugs of today would be for those
too poor to get a chip jack and afford BTLs but compared to BTLs I'd say
just about any of it would be legal...
Message no. 3
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: Wacky Tobacky in the new '60s.
Date: Tue Sep 18 23:35:02 2001
In a message dated 9/18/2001 10:55:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
l3oondocker@*****.com writes:

<< Just curious as to what you guys think marijuana's legal status would be
in the 2060s, for the various North American countries. You figure it'd be
legal 100 years later? Controlled? Vanished through some strange sequence
of events?

=====
-Boondocker >>


Vanished?!? VANISHED?!? Good gods man don't speak of such things!!! ::starts
hoarding an emergency stash just in case:: I'd like to think it would be
legal, but unless they figure out a way to tax it I would highly doubt it. On
the other hand however, I don't think the corps would concern themselves too
much with enforcing the law even if it WERE illegal, especially with much
bigger fish to fry such as BTL abuse. Much the same as it is now, marijuana
thankfully tends to be ignored in favor of the actually dangerous and
addictive drugs such as coke and speed, etc... I know in my own little world,
when I'm running SR, it will be either legal or ignored...because SR is a
fantasy world, and erego, whatever you think it should be to enhance the
enjoyment of your players. If your troupe is strongly anti-dooby, then by all
means make it illegal and harshly punished. On the other hand, if a little
cannabis consumption is a regular part of your gaming group's get-togethers,
then let 'em be free with it.

Just my .02¥, which I could have been saving to buy more stash!
Message no. 4
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: Wacky Tobacky in the new '60s.
Date: Tue Sep 18 23:40:04 2001
In a message dated 9/18/2001 11:31:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
jhogan@**********.nf.net writes:

<< Somehow I don't think drugs are that big a factor anymore. Gotta remember
its an age with BTL chips. I imagine the drugs of today would be for those
too poor to get a chip jack and afford BTLs but compared to BTLs I'd say
just about any of it would be legal... >>


Actually if you look in the old Shadowtech sourcebook, at least most of the
drugs are still illegal and in fact it lists the appropriate fines/punishment
for possession, etc... But, I reiterate before. It's your world, and the book
didn't specify drugs so marijuana could possibly by then be
legalized...cannabis gods willing. ; )~

<ZZZZZZZZZZ>
Message no. 5
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Steve Collins)
Subject: Wacky Tobacky in the new '60s.
Date: Wed Sep 19 00:10:01 2001
----- Original Message -----
From: BD <l3oondocker@*****.com>
To: ShadowRN <shadowrn@*********.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 10:51 PM
Subject: Wacky Tobacky in the new '60s.


> Just curious as to what you guys think marijuana's legal status would be
> in the 2060s, for the various North American countries. You figure it'd
be
> legal 100 years later? Controlled? Vanished through some strange
sequence
> of events?
>
> ====> -Boondocker

In all likelyhood it would still be illegal, however I suspect that
particular law would be enforced about as well as the cohabitation and
sodomy laws that most states in the US still have, every now and then you'll
see someone get charged for possession or distribution when someone in the
police force doesn't like them or they can't pin anything else on them but
gettinga conviction would be nearly impossible and the DA's probably
wouldn't even bother to prosecute the case (sort of like that case in Az
recently where the DA actually testafied on behalf of the defendant in a
cohabitation case, he had to prosecute it since a charge was pressed but did
not agree with the law).


Steve
Message no. 6
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: Wacky Tobacky in the new '60s.
Date: Wed Sep 19 06:30:01 2001
According to KiltedJamesman@***.com, on Wed, 19 Sep 2001 the word on the street was...

> Vanished?!? VANISHED?!? Good gods man don't speak of such things!!!
> ::starts hoarding an emergency stash just in case:: I'd like to think it
> would be legal, but unless they figure out a way to tax it I would highly
> doubt it.

Taxing marijuana isn't all that hard. All you need to do is make it legal, and when
everyone selling it has a sense of security that they won't be arrested after all,
you introduce a tax. As long as the cost of the stuff, including tax, is low enough
that growing your own seems like an awful hassle, it'll work. (Look at alcohol:
making your own is easy enough, but how many people actually do?)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
If only it were almost easy.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+@ UL P L++ E W-(++) N o? K w+(--) O V?
PS+ PE(-)(+) Y PGP- t@ 5++ X(+) R+++(-)>$ tv+ b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 7
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Zixx)
Subject: Wacky Tobacky in the new '60s.
Date: Wed Sep 19 13:10:02 2001
Gurth wrote:
> According to KiltedJamesman@***.com, on Wed, 19 Sep 2001 the word
> on the street was...
>
> > Vanished?!? VANISHED?!? Good gods man don't speak of such
> > things!!!
> >
> > ::starts hoarding an emergency stash just in case:: I'd like to
> > :: think it
> >
> > would be legal, but unless they figure out a way to tax it I
> > would highly doubt it.
>
> Taxing marijuana isn't all that hard. All you need to do is make it
> legal, and when everyone selling it has a sense of security that
> they won't be arrested after all, you introduce a tax. As long as
> the cost of the stuff, including tax, is low enough that growing
> your own seems like an awful hassle, it'll work. (Look at alcohol:
> making your own is easy enough, but how many people actually do?)

Actually, once you make it legal, tax it. As soon as there is no more
criminal element, prices are going to drop like crazy. You know, mass
production, no more smuggling, less people involved, someone with a
business-plan ;)
Anyway, don't think it will vanish, as BTLs might be a bit to
hardcore to the regular weed-head. I also don't think it will be
legal, as historically, drugs get banned, not legalized. Besides, no
corp would want dope to be legal, as it reduces productivity too
much. I can see tabacco banned, OTOH (heath-reasons, all this little
cig-breaks at work, etc :))

Zixx
Message no. 8
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Bira)
Subject: Wacky Tobacky in the new '60s.
Date: Wed Sep 19 16:30:04 2001
On Tue, 18 Sep 2001 19:51:34 -0700 (PDT)
BD <l3oondocker@*****.com> wrote:

> Just curious as to what you guys think marijuana's legal status would be
> in the 2060s, for the various North American countries. You figure it'd be
> legal 100 years later? Controlled? Vanished through some strange sequence
> of events?

If it happens to have some magical use, or a yet-unknown medical properties, it
will likely be controlled - only licensed magicians and pharmaceutical corps will be able
to own/cultivate it legally.

If not, perhaps no one will bother to legalize it, unless the government or the
corps _really_ need to distract the population: in this case, there will be some extremely
public discussions on the legalization of the drug, followed by extensive add campaigns
put out by tobacco manufacturers speaking of their all-new marijuana cigarretes. These two
are likely to occupy most of the media's attention for a long time, leaving some pretty
grim stuff out of the limelight (which is the reason behind all the "show").

--
Bira -- SysOp da Shadowland.BR
http://www.shadowland.com.br
Redator de Shadowrun da RPG em Revista
http://www.rpgemrevista.f2s.com
Message no. 9
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: Wacky Tobacky in the new '60s.
Date: Wed Sep 19 16:45:01 2001
In a message dated 9/19/2001 6:30:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
Gurth@******.nl writes:

<< (Look at alcohol:
making your own is easy enough, but how many people actually do?) >>

::laughs:: Funny question...especially here in West Virginia. ; )~
Message no. 10
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Kenneth Horner)
Subject: Wacky Tobacky in the new '60s.
Date: Wed Sep 19 20:05:00 2001
>Just curious as to what you guys think marijuana's legal status would be
in the 2060s, for the various North American countries. You figure it'd be
legal 100 years later? Controlled? Vanished through some strange sequence
of events?>

Well, I'm sure WizKids/FanPro/FASA would be very likely to keep it illegal
in any of their publications as I doubt they want to be endorsing illegal
drug use, like most companies. I think that different countries would have
different laws about it, with the UCAS probably still having a ban on it
while
Aztlan and the CAS would both have it under limited or no control. I'd
think
most corps would frown upon narcotic use, in public at least.
Message no. 11
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Simon and Fiona Fuller)
Subject: Wacky Tobacky in the new '60s.
Date: Wed Sep 19 20:10:01 2001
-----Original Message-----
From: shadowrn-admin@*********.com
[mailto:shadowrn-admin@*********.com]On Behalf Of BD
Sent: Wednesday, 19 September 2001 12:52
To: ShadowRN
Subject: Wacky Tobacky in the new '60s.


Just curious as to what you guys think marijuana's legal status would be
in the 2060s, for the various North American countries. You figure it'd be
legal 100 years later? Controlled? Vanished through some strange sequence
of events?

====
Probably illegal but below the radar in the UCAS, illegal in the CAS and Tir
Tairngire, legal in CalFree (just because), Aztlan, and the NAN, where being
back-to-nature and as one with the spirits is more important.
I could see dope being important to some shamans (particularly Sloth
shamans), perhaps in game terms it could raise target numbers for spells but
reduce drain.
Message no. 12
From: shadowrn@*********.com (DemonWytch)
Subject: Wacky Tobacky in the new '60s.
Date: Wed Sep 19 22:25:01 2001
>I can see tabacco banned, OTOH (heath-reasons, all this little
> cig-breaks at work, etc :))

Yeah, *try* and get rid of the tobacco corps. Somehow, I seriously doubt
we'll ever be rid of them.

DemonWytch
*ducks butts flicked at her* ^^
Message no. 13
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: Wacky Tobacky in the new '60s.
Date: Thu Sep 20 06:10:01 2001
According to Zixx, on Wed, 19 Sep 2001 the word on the street was...

> Actually, once you make it legal, tax it. As soon as there is no more
> criminal element, prices are going to drop like crazy. You know, mass
> production, no more smuggling, less people involved, someone with a
> business-plan ;)

But they'll want to keep the prices at the same level as they were when the
stuff was illegal, or probably just a little below that. Still, it should
work pretty easily, I'd think.

> Anyway, don't think it will vanish, as BTLs might be a bit to
> hardcore to the regular weed-head.

Not to mention too expensive. Now I don't know what marijuana costs today
(I'm sure someone here will know :) but it's certainly a LOT less than 100
or 250 US dollars (nuyen) a pop. Hell, for that kind of money BTLs had
better be a huge improvement over cocain, heroin, and all those other
traditional drugs -- especially because, if BTLs are really that
wide-spread, drug prices would probably plummet.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
If only it were almost easy.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+@ UL P L++ E W-(++) N o? K w+(--) O V?
PS+ PE(-)(+) Y PGP- t@ 5++ X(+) R+++(-)>$ tv+ b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 14
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: Wacky Tobacky in the new '60s.
Date: Thu Sep 20 06:10:05 2001
According to KiltedJamesman@***.com, on Wed, 19 Sep 2001 the word on the street was...

> << (Look at alcohol:
> making your own is easy enough, but how many people actually do?) >>
>
> ::laughs:: Funny question...especially here in West Virginia. ; )~

There's always exceptions, but in general I think it holds up: it can be really cheap
to brew/ferment/distill your own alcohol but in most parts of the world it's so much
easier to go to the store and buy a bottle.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
If only it were almost easy.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+@ UL P L++ E W-(++) N o? K w+(--) O V?
PS+ PE(-)(+) Y PGP- t@ 5++ X(+) R+++(-)>$ tv+ b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 15
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Zixx)
Subject: Wacky Tobacky in the new '60s.
Date: Thu Sep 20 10:05:01 2001
DemonWytch wrote:
> >I can see tabacco banned, OTOH (heath-reasons, all this little
> > cig-breaks at work, etc :))
>
> Yeah, *try* and get rid of the tobacco corps. Somehow, I seriously
> doubt we'll ever be rid of them.

Imagine this: Someone at Ares calculates the annual loss due to
cigaretts to n million dollars (which ought to be an impressive n, if
we assume that Ares provides medical care for its
proper^H^H^H^H^H^Hemployees). So, who is going to win this? Thought
so :))

Zixx
Message no. 16
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Bira)
Subject: Wacky Tobacky in the new '60s.
Date: Thu Sep 20 10:15:01 2001
On Thu, 20 Sep 2001 16:06:38 +0200
Zixx <zixx@****.org> wrote:

> Imagine this: Someone at Ares calculates the annual loss due to
> cigaretts to n million dollars (which ought to be an impressive n, if
> we assume that Ares provides medical care for its
> proper^H^H^H^H^H^Hemployees). So, who is going to win this? Thought
> so :))

In this case, Ares just buys out Philip Morris and gets tremendous revenue from
the sale of cigarrettes. In fact it's likely that they've done this already :).

--
Bira -- SysOp da Shadowland.BR
http://www.shadowland.com.br
Redator de Shadowrun da RPG em Revista
http://www.rpgemrevista.f2s.com
Message no. 17
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Zixx)
Subject: Wacky Tobacky in the new '60s.
Date: Thu Sep 20 10:25:01 2001
Gurth wrote:
> According to Zixx, on Wed, 19 Sep 2001 the word on the street
> was...
>
> > Actually, once you make it legal, tax it. As soon as there is no
> > more criminal element, prices are going to drop like crazy. You
> > know, mass production, no more smuggling, less people involved,
> > someone with a business-plan ;)
>
> But they'll want to keep the prices at the same level as they were
> when the stuff was illegal, or probably just a little below that.
> Still, it should work pretty easily, I'd think.

I don't know, most dope-heads I know get their supplys from friends.
There's a lot of socializing around dealing THC. So you'd have to get
a couple of rather lethargic people to change their habits. Not easy
;)
Besides, the dealers won't just give up on their income, so they will
reduce prices just as much. Take a look at the margins from
manufacturing to street-dealers. It's going to be dirt cheap. Which
is not what the government would want.

> > Anyway, don't think it will vanish, as BTLs might be a bit to
> > hardcore to the regular weed-head.
>
> Not to mention too expensive. Now I don't know what marijuana costs
> today (I'm sure someone here will know :) but it's certainly a LOT
> less than 100 or 250 US dollars (nuyen) a pop.

Over here it's about 10DM/gram, about 5USD.
(Disclaimer: No, I don't smoke it, I don't even drink alcohol.)

> Hell, for that kind
> of money BTLs had better be a huge improvement over cocain, heroin,
> and all those other traditional drugs -- especially because, if
> BTLs are really that wide-spread, drug prices would probably
> plummet.

My guess is that BTLs last a lot longer. I'm by no means an expert,
but from what I know, you get the most serious high via crack. The
problem with crack is that it only lasts a very short time (some
minutes, IIRC). Now BTLs could give you that for maybe eight hours.
Sure, your brain is not going to like that, but hell, it's a drug.
Besides, I can get specifically the effect you want. Slight
hallucinations with serious euphoria? <click-click-click> Done!
You want to see everything blue during the trip? No problem?
All women should be nude? That'll cost extra...:)

Zixx
Message no. 18
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: Wacky Tobacky in the new '60s.
Date: Fri Sep 21 06:15:01 2001
According to Bira, on Thu, 20 Sep 2001 the word on the street was...

> In this case, Ares just buys out Philip Morris and gets
> tremendous revenue from the sale of cigarrettes. In fact it's likely that
> they've done this already :).

In fact, I can see the megacorps doing just that by putting some research
into taking the harmful chemicals out of tobacco, and then putting in
something at least as addictive, but which won't cause the smoking
employees to become less productive by being sick, getting cancer,
coughing, etc.

You don't need to care about people to make them better :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
If only it were almost easy.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+@ UL P L++ E W-(++) N o? K w+(--) O V?
PS+ PE(-)(+) Y PGP- t@ 5++ X(+) R+++(-)>$ tv+ b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

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