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Message no. 1
From: Demosthenes Three demosthenes_3@*****.com
Subject: Wait and see
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 20:23:12 -0700 (PDT)
In a message dated 8/15/99 11:00:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
docwagon101@*****.com writes:

> > Shadowruns based off the rich Shadowrun political/social system
makes
>  for good roleplaying.  But there is no such current sourcebook
>  material. 
>  > -Twist
> 
>  *Doc' boggles. "Lordy, Twist, have you even done more than GLANCE at
>  New Seattle?"*
>  ==

>NS only compiles the information in Seattle and >sections of
Underworld and
>Download, really.  But it does provide more >atmosphere than the
typical place
>book.

Judas H. Priest Twist!
I gotta echo Doc here ... did you even LOOK at NEW Seattle.
That's as in ... NEW ... meaning the material here is NOT the same as
the OLD material?!?!?!?

New Seattle DOES base a good bit of it's info off the Seattle
Sourcebook, and Underworld, but NOT Corp Download. It uses a little bit
of the NAN material too, but it completely UPDATES this stuff.

A lot of junk from 2050 has changed in 10 years.
This gives a LOT of "look at SR life" crap that you seem to be seeking.
Try reading it.

You want to talk about missing something that gave a good look at SR
life though?
How about those great ads from Seattle Sourcebook, and London? Those
were kewl!

Demothenes_3
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Message no. 2
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Wait and see
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 21:02:39 -0700 (PDT)
> > > Shadowruns based off the rich Shadowrun political/social system
makes for good roleplaying.  But there is no such current sourcebook
material. 
> >  > -Twist
> > 
> >  *Doc' boggles. "Lordy, Twist, have you even done more than GLANCE
at New Seattle?"*
> >  ==>
> >NS only compiles the information in Seattle and sections of
Underworld and Download, really.  But it does provide more atmosphere
than the typical place book.
>
> Judas H. Priest Twist!
> I gotta echo Doc here ... did you even LOOK at NEW Seattle. That's as
in ... NEW ... meaning the material here is NOT the same as the OLD
material?!?!?!?
>
> New Seattle DOES base a good bit of it's info off the Seattle
Sourcebook, and Underworld, but NOT Corp Download. It uses a little bit
of the NAN material too, but it completely UPDATES this stuff.
>
> A lot of junk from 2050 has changed in 10 years. This gives a LOT of
"look at SR life" crap that you seem to be seeking. Try reading it.
>
> You want to talk about missing something that gave a good look at SR
life though? How about those great ads from Seattle Sourcebook, and
London? Those were kewl!
> Demothenes_3

Okay, I agree with D3 in principle, if not EXACTLY in details. Probably
because I was thinking of something different. Twist, look at the
sentence above I'm quoting from you. Now as soon as I read that, the
following sprang to mind. Ivan (?) Lindstrom, the current governor of
Seattle, took over when Governor Schultz went missing in the arc. He
wants to stay there. So he wants to know if Schultz is alive or not -
and if she is, he doesn't want her to stay that way.

Can you imagine the runs that could come from just that one little
tidbit? And if that ain't the "rich Shadowrun political/social system"
I don't know what the hell is.

*Doc' would like to thank his parents for their support and...oh,
sorry. Wrong post.*
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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Message no. 3
From: Scott W iscottw@*****.nb.ca
Subject: Wait and see
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 01:21:09 -0300
"And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Demosthenes Three."

<snip>
] You want to talk about missing something that gave a good look at SR
] life though?
] How about those great ads from Seattle Sourcebook, and London? Those
] were kewl!

Oh, man! I'd forgotten about those...oh geez, in London, the picture
of the elf maid and ork butler...that kills me everytime (those
oh-so-real ears...LOL!). And then the scrawny samurai holding the baby
in the UB ad...what's he wearing on his back, an inner tube? He's got
pipes going to his _boots_, of all things!

<wiping tear from eye>

Oh, thank you for bringing those up, I'd forgotten about them. I
sincerely hope we never see them in any new books...

-------------------------------------------
PLEASE WATCH YOUR STEP
NICK UNDER CONSTRUCTION
Message no. 4
From: Paolo Marcucci thatpaolo@****.com
Subject: Wait and see
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 21:34:14 -0700
They were cool :)

> Oh, thank you for bringing those up, I'd forgotten about them. I
> sincerely hope we never see them in any new books...
Message no. 5
From: IronRaven cyberraven@********.net
Subject: Wait and see
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 19:51:47 -0400
At 21.02 08-15-99 -0700, you wrote:
>tidbit? And if that ain't the "rich Shadowrun political/social system"
>I don't know what the hell is.

What if you are sick to death of Seattle? I don't care how big it is, or
how many corps have offices there, or how many tons of stuff leaves from
the harbor and airship docks, Seattle is still one city. One of the
problems with the Star Wars RP is that everything happens on maybe ten or
twelve planets; in SR, they all seem to happen in Seattle, LA, Chicago or DC.
Maybe if they published more city books (just ONE city, not four or five,
not a stuff book where they talk about a certain city as where something
happened, just one city), they might sell them. I personally think they
would sell as many or more copies of Target: Boston or Target: New York
City (although this would have to be the NY/NJ megalopolis) than they would
Target: UCAS.


Kevin Dole, aka CyberRaven, aka IronRaven, aka Steel Tengu
http://members.xoom.com/iron_raven/
"Once again, we have spat int he face of Death and his second cousin,
Dismemberment."
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in
your pholosophy."
Message no. 6
From: Patrick Goodman remo@***.net
Subject: Wait and see
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 22:08:14 -0500
> Maybe if they published more city books (just ONE city, not four or five,
> not a stuff book where they talk about a certain city as where something
> happened, just one city), they might sell them. I personally think they
> would sell as many or more copies of Target: Boston or Target: New York
> City (although this would have to be the NY/NJ megalopolis) than
> they would Target: UCAS.

Dunno about that, though the Boston stuff in Target UCAS has been invaluable
to me, since I run an alternate campaign in Boston (alternate in the sense
that it's not my regular Amarillo campaign, not alternate in the sense that
they're something besides shadowrunners). I'm not certain if I'd've bought
a Target Boston, though, since I never even considered the city until I got
Target UCAS, which I got for information on Chicago.

Personally, I'm happy with the way things are going, and have some high
hopes for what I've seen is to come.

--
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
Message no. 7
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Wait and see
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 20:21:09 -0700 (PDT)
> >tidbit? And if that ain't the "rich Shadowrun political/social
system" I don't know what the hell is.
>
> What if you are sick to death of Seattle? I don't care how big it
is, or how many corps have offices there, or how many tons of stuff
leaves from the harbor and airship docks, Seattle is still one city.
One of the problems with the Star Wars RP is that everything happens on
maybe ten or twelve planets; in SR, they all seem to happen in Seattle,
LA, Chicago or DC. Maybe if they published more city books (just ONE
city, not four or five, not a stuff book where they talk about a
certain city as where something happened, just one city), they might
sell them. I personally think they would sell as many or more copies
of Target: Boston or Target: New York City (although this would have to
be the NY/NJ megalopolis) than they would Target: UCAS.
> Kevin Dole, aka CyberRaven, aka IronRaven, aka Steel
> Tengu

Good question and good suggestion. You're probably right, Kevin. But I
was addressing a different question (Twist had said that nothing in the
way of politics or social circumstances was being provided to
kick-start runs).

As to what you've said, all I can say is this - make the suggestion to
FASA and/or be prepared to wait. They may have something like this in
the works already, but it's just not going to be out for a while. Or
they may not and your suggestion might start them thinking.

And just to be pedantic ( :) ), since MM has come to the helm, SR has
probably been more outwards looking from Seattle than it ever was
before. Early on we had Tir Tairngire, the UCAS and the NAN nations.
Now we've got Cyberpirates and soon we'll have Target: Awakened Lands
amongst other things. New Seattle was to a large extent a return to the
original setting for SR3, to fill in the veterans on the recent changes
(and help us not to have to carry around so many books, to introduce
the newbies to the original (and still the best :) ) SR setting and to
update a sadly out-of-date "place" book.

*Doc' wants a Target: Nudist Colonies book!!!*
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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Message no. 8
From: Penta cpenta@*****.com
Subject: Wait and see
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 08:47:31 -0700
IronRaven wrote:

> I personally think they
> would sell as many or more copies of Target: Boston or Target: New York
> City (although this would have to be the NY/NJ megalopolis) than they would
> Target: UCAS.

<rant>
A HUGE hint for the next person to do NY/NJ. The Shore (or at least Monmouth County)
is UNLIKELY to sink into the ground economically and be bought by the corps. For
those who have no CLUE, there are 3 big military bases in this state (I'd say 4+, but
Lakehurst and Picatinny ain't much really.). All near the Shore. Now, the gummint's
lost ALL of their bases west of Kansas and south of Fredricksburg (I think) VA. So
they gained some space in Canada..hah. Those bases would EXPAND. It'd not become
corptown or arcoland by any means: the corps (especially Ares) would have a PRESENCE,
but not to that extent. Just from LIVING in this area all my life, I can tell: We
lose jobs at Bellcore/Lucent, it hurts. We lose one of the bases, we're FINISHED. Ft.
Monmouth alone employs something like 20% of Monmouth County. And I can't see any of
em SHRINKING. (10:1 Ft. Dix goes back as a training center, for example.)
THAT is a strong reason why you should visit where you speak of....*grr*
</rant>

John
Message no. 9
From: IronRaven cyberraven@********.net
Subject: Wait and see
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 10:00:40 -0400
At 20.21 08-16-99 -0700, you wrote:
>As to what you've said, all I can say is this - make the suggestion to
>FASA and/or be prepared to wait. They may have something like this in

I have.
I think that an idea for FASA (and it was suggested) is to a poll on hteir
web site and at the next GenCon (this was last fal, so sound off if you saw
anything like this) for the places that people would like to see most, then
start advertising for freelancers fromt hose places.

>*Doc' wants a Target: Nudist Colonies book!!!*

I'm not going to touch that with a 4 meter stun baton.


Kevin Dole, aka CyberRaven, aka IronRaven, aka Steel Tengu
http://members.xoom.com/iron_raven/
"Once again, we have spat int he face of Death and his second cousin,
Dismemberment."
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in
your pholosophy."
Message no. 10
From: Matt Teixeira MTeixeira@*******.com
Subject: Wait and see
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 10:27:21 -0400
IronRaven wrote:

> I personally think they
> would sell as many or more copies of Target: Boston or Target: New York
> City (although this would have to be the NY/NJ megalopolis) than they
would
> Target: UCAS.

Seattle and New Seattle were great books. As a new Shadowrun GM, I started
my games in Seattle. That was logical. I would like to see FASA release the
above listed books as well. Target:UCAS I am still awaiting, NAGNA I have.
It was good for getting a feel for each city listed, but I would love the
maps and locations (in the same manner as Seattle Sourcebook). While GM's
can create their own cities (I realize), we don't have our full 8 hour day
five-days-a-week to do it. It could easily take months to fully flesh out a
city for use, especially if not familiar with the city.

It may be a while before FASA gives us any new Target:cityname books. Has
anyone considered a project of doing this as netbooks? Getting Shadowrun
players in each city to attempt to build a TARGET: style netbook for their
city?

I would be more than happy to help with Target: Boston (boy, what would they
do with Fenway Park in the year 2061?). I actually live in Syracuse but
don't think that would be a hot item (TARGET:Syracuse). I have some webspace
to make them available to the general Shadowrun community. Is there any
interest?

Matthew M. Teixeira
mteixei1@*****.rr.com
Message no. 11
From: Manx timburke@*******.com.au
Subject: Wait and see
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 01:39:29 +1000
At 10:27 17/08/99 -0400 Matt Teixeira wrote
>It may be a while before FASA gives us any new Target:cityname books. Has
>anyone considered a project of doing this as netbooks? Getting Shadowrun
>players in each city to attempt to build a TARGET: style netbook for their
>city?
>
>Matthew M. Teixeira

My imported Canadian GM has put together the city of
Toronto, UCAS and we've been running there for 18
months. He has enough stuff written to give everyone
a feel for Toronto, even if you haven't been there.
It's written like a sourcebook so it's easy to follow.

If you feel like a change of pace from Seattle check
out his website, which has all his Toronto stuff on it.

http://www.geocities.com//TimesSquare/Corridor/8130

Obviously hit the link to the Shadowrun site.
____________________________________
Manx // timburke@*******.com.au // #950
"It's always funny until someone gets hurt
and then it's just hilarious." - Faith No More
____________________________________
Message no. 12
From: Arcady arcady@***.net
Subject: Wait and see
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 11:44:38 +700
>> I personally think they
>> would sell as many or more copies of Target: Boston or Target: New York
>> City (although this would have to be the NY/NJ megalopolis) than they would

>> Target: UCAS.

I don't. But that's me. I prefer large scope books that leave the details to
me but give me enough to be 'inspired'.

><rant>
>A HUGE hint for the next person to do NY/NJ. The Shore (or at least Monmouth
County)
>is UNLIKELY to sink into the ground economically and be bought by the corps.
For

60 years ia long time.

>those who have no CLUE, there are 3 big military bases in this state (I'd say
4+, but
>Lakehurst and Picatinny ain't much really.). All near the Shore. Now, the gummint's

>lost ALL of their bases west of Kansas and south of Fredricksburg (I think)
VA. So
>they gained some space in Canada..hah. Those bases would EXPAND. It'd not become

>corptown or arcoland by any means: the corps (especially Ares) would have a
PRESENCE,
>but not to that extent. Just from LIVING in this area all my life, I can tell:
We
>lose jobs at Bellcore/Lucent, it hurts. We lose one of the bases, we're FINISHED.
Ft.
>Monmouth alone employs something like 20% of Monmouth County. And I can't see
any of
>em SHRINKING. (10:1 Ft. Dix goes back as a training center, for example.)
>THAT is a strong reason why you should visit where you speak of....*grr*
></rant>

I'll use San Francisco as a counter point.

In 1939 it was a conservative town with ethnic chinese and black populations
living in segregated neighborhoods. The drive to lock up Americans of Japanese
heritage in WWII was spear headed by San Francisco businesses and politicians.

Today it is a liberal racially integrated location. Every race on earth is here
and I think we have an interracial marriage rate of between 13 to 20% of all
marriages. Most of the radical left wing movements of 20th century USA got their
start here and continue to thrive here.

Just 10 years ago we had 5 to 6 more military bases in the region than we do
today. Government plans change. Is there a reason for those bases to be there?
Well, considering the hot spots today are largely in the pacific I'd say so.
But the government has other plans.

The economy has also skyrocketed since 1939. We have several whole industries
with their core here in this region that didn't even exist in 1939.
In those 60 years we built the largest naval shipyard in history and then tore
it down. 60 years is a long time.

In 60 years from now, who's to say what it will be like. Certain things remain
constant and certain parts of a culture remain. But much can change.

In the UCAS, they have several more borders than the USA did. And most of them
are hostile. The CAS is their most friendly neighbor with the possible exception
of Quebec (who I don't recall the details on...). Then there's all their overseas
interests as well. I imagine these have been cut back dramatically. But some
of them likely remain.

It's a nation that has to spread it's forces thin. If lacking a 100% draft they'd
have no other choice but to have troops spread out on every front. I'd be less
worried about the CAS who left on peaceful even if tense terms than I would
the Souix or Aztlan or the Tir and Salish (in Seattle).

The east coast is their safest border. The enemy can't just walk there... They
just need to have a naval presence in the Atlantic and the coast guard patrolling
the coast. Of course they'd be good with more, but when compared to their land
borders it's not much of a threat zone.
Arcady WebRPG Magistrate http://townhall.webrpg.com <0){{{{><
elfwood.lysator.liu.se/lothlorien/artists/brianfw/brianfw.html
/.)\ Projects: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Portal/1865/
\(@/ Homepage: http://www.jps.net/arcady/
Message no. 13
From: Arcady arcady@***.net
Subject: Wait and see
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 15:20:27 +700
>>As to what you've said, all I can say is this - make the suggestion to
>>FASA and/or be prepared to wait. They may have something like this in
>
> I think that an idea for FASA (and it was suggested) is to a poll on hteir

>start advertising for freelancers fromt hose places.

How about web-sold books on disk/download...

FASA could at no cost to itself accept freelance written books that pass it's
quality standards or fit it's world vision and sell them on their site as PDF
downloads. Author gets a percentage of sales as payment. Hero Games does something
similar.

It would allow the world to get fleshed out in those areas FASA deems not profitable
to publish.
Like a 'Fashions of 2060" book or something. :)

Arcady WebRPG Magistrate http://townhall.webrpg.com <0){{{{><
elfwood.lysator.liu.se/lothlorien/artists/brianfw/brianfw.html
/.)\ Projects: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Portal/1865/
\(@/ Homepage: http://www.jps.net/arcady/
Message no. 14
From: Bull bull@*******.net
Subject: Wait and see
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 20:17:51 -0400 (EDT)
At 10:27 AM 8/17/99 -0400, Matt Teixeira wrote these timeless words:
>IronRaven wrote:
>
>It may be a while before FASA gives us any new Target:cityname books. Has
>anyone considered a project of doing this as netbooks? Getting Shadowrun
>players in each city to attempt to build a TARGET: style netbook for their
>city?
>
Actually, this was probably the project that killed off the NERPS project
group <rueful chuckle>

This is really a HARD thing to write up properly and with the amount of
detail you are talking about. Trust me, I have a huge ass "Cleveland
Sourcebook" sitting mostly finished on my hard drive somewhere...

I don;t know if the logs are still around from NERPS, but if so, and if
someone knows where they are, check them out :]

Bull
--
Bull -- The Best Ork Decker You Never Met
bull@*******.net ===== bull22@***********.com
http://shadowrun.html.com/users/bull
ICQ: 35931890
====================================================== =
= Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any Fours? = =
======================================================
"Animals have 2 jobs: To taste good and to fit well."
-- Greg Proops, "Vs."
Message no. 15
From: IronRaven cyberraven@********.net
Subject: Wait and see
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 20:34:05 -0400
At 15.20 08-17-99 +700, you wrote:
>FASA could at no cost to itself accept freelance written books that pass it's
>quality standards or fit it's world vision and sell them on their site as PDF

I like it, but I see the weenie in accounting and legal saying nasty
things about it.
You also potentially run into continuity problems.

>It would allow the world to get fleshed out in those areas FASA deems not
profitable
>to publish.

Hmm.....



Kevin Dole, aka CyberRaven, aka IronRaven, aka Steel Tengu
http://members.xoom.com/iron_raven/
"Once again, we have spat int he face of Death and his second cousin,
Dismemberment."
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in
your pholosophy."
Message no. 16
From: Geoffrey Haacke knight_errant30@*******.com
Subject: Wait and see
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 10:24:15 CST
>From: IronRaven <cyberraven@********.net>
>
> I like it, but I see the weenie in accounting and legal saying nasty
>things about it.
> You also potentially run into continuity problems.

Not if the editors were on the ball tho. This idea has merit!

>
> Hmm.....

Hmmm indeed.



Geoff Haacke
"If you not part of the solution then you are part of the precipitate."
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups."


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Message no. 17
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Wait and see
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 20:08:17 +0200
According to Bull, at 20:17 on 17 Aug 99, the word on
the street was...

> Actually, this was probably the project that killed off the NERPS project
> group <rueful chuckle>

Probably, yeah. After the failure of NERPS: The Neo-Anarchist's Guide to
the World (NAGTTW), almost everyone seemed to lose interest in the other
NERPS projects :(

> I don;t know if the logs are still around from NERPS, but if so, and if
> someone knows where they are, check them out :]

To the best of my knowledge, the logs are around, but not available for
viewing from the Internet. Mark has them somewhere, and told me he'd put
them on-line when he had the time to do it, but so far, I haven't heard
from him that they are available.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
De plaag is terug...!
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 18
From: Matthew M. Teixeira mteixei1@*****.rr.com
Subject: Wait and see
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 15:50:41 -0700
For my game I plan to create a TARGET:Boston. I am awaiting the TARGET:UCAS
book (on it's way at this moment) to begin and then I will expand upon it
where necessary. I will place it on my website when done and let everyone
know where to find it.

Anyone interested in helping, please email me off the list at
mteixei1@*****.rr.com.

Thanks.

The Motley One


> -----Original Message-----
> From: shadowrn-admin@*********.org
> [mailto:shadowrn-admin@*********.org]On Behalf Of Gurth
> Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 1999 11:08 AM
> To: shadowrn@*********.org
> Subject: Re: Wait and see
>
>
> According to Bull, at 20:17 on 17 Aug 99, the word on
> the street was...
>
> > Actually, this was probably the project that killed off the
> NERPS project
> > group <rueful chuckle>
>
> Probably, yeah. After the failure of NERPS: The Neo-Anarchist's Guide to
> the World (NAGTTW), almost everyone seemed to lose interest in the other
> NERPS projects :(
>
> > I don;t know if the logs are still around from NERPS, but if so, and if
> > someone knows where they are, check them out :]
>
> To the best of my knowledge, the logs are around, but not available for
> viewing from the Internet. Mark has them somewhere, and told me he'd put
> them on-line when he had the time to do it, but so far, I haven't heard
> from him that they are available.
>
> --
> Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
> De plaag is terug...!
> -> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
> ->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
> -> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-
>
> GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
> PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
> Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
>
>

Further Reading

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