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Message no. 1
From: Jonathan Wright <jwrigh01@********.ca>
Subject: Re: Wards etc
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 17:46:26 -0500 (EST)
On Tue, 30 Jan 1996, The Digital Mage wrote:

>
> BY the way does anyone else find it illogical that the higher ward force
> rating you attempt the lower force you'll probably get? I know that it
> could be said that if you attempt something too tricky it could be
> difficult to do -but that wouldn't explain why you'd end up creatinga
> lower force ward, either you'd try to make it high force and succeed, or
> you'd fail.
>
> Opinions?
>
Try this analogy:

If I ask you to build a brick wall that will stop a tank, and you failed
that wall would probrably still stop a gunshot. Just because it doesn't
stop a tank doesn't mean the wall collapses the moment you stop building it.

Jon Wright
Message no. 2
From: Robert Watkins <robertdw@*******.com.au>
Subject: Re: Wards etc
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 13:35:23 +1100 (EST)
>Can anyone point out a refgerence which says that sustained spells and
>etc can't pass through wards and other magical barriers? As far as I can
>see, they only prevent, or make harder, the CASTING of spells across the
>barrier.

A ward or mana barrier is an astral barrier as well. Any astral entity,
including spells, foci, etc, trying to cross the barrier must beat the
barrier down. This same ruling explains why it's difficult to walk
through walls.


--
* *
/_\ "A friend is someone who likes the same TV programs you do" /_\
{~._.~} "Eternal nothingness is fine if you happen {~._.~}
( Y ) to be dressed for it." -- Woody Allen ( Y )
()~*~() Robert Watkins robertdw@*******.com.au ()~*~()
(_)-(_) (_)-(_)
Message no. 3
From: "Mark Steedman" <M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Wards etc
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 11:21:43 GMT
> From: The Digital Mage <mn3rge@****.AC.UK>

> Can anyone point out a refgerence which says that sustained spells and
> etc can't pass through wards and other magical barriers? As far as I can
> see, they only prevent, or make harder, the CASTING of spells across the
> barrier.
>
Wards are sorted out someehat in awakenings. Though the foci and
wards rules as published suck big time. As far as i know sustianed
spells have similar problems. Astral percption treats the ward as an
astral wall, can we say ouch! go look up the ramming things rules.

> BY the way does anyone else find it illogical that the higher ward force
> rating you attempt the lower force you'll probably get? I know that it
> could be said that if you attempt something too tricky it could be
> difficult to do -but that wouldn't explain why you'd end up creatinga
> lower force ward, either you'd try to make it high force and succeed, or
> you'd fail.
>
My opinion is the rules are fragged. They need rewriting so the force
you get is what you aimed for, target number is force and duration is
successes, or something like that. A full list rules write on this
would be useful.

> Opinions?
>
>
Mark
Message no. 4
From: t_little@**********.utas.edu.au (Timothy Little)
Subject: Re: Wards etc
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 22:35:11 +1100
>BY the way does anyone else find it illogical that the higher ward force
>rating you attempt the lower force you'll probably get? I know that it
>could be said that if you attempt something too tricky it could be
>difficult to do -but that wouldn't explain why you'd end up creatinga
>lower force ward, either you'd try to make it high force and succeed, or
>you'd fail.

The way I read it (on p. 92 of Grimoire 2nd ed), number of successes
determines how many days it lasts, not what its Force is. The Force you get
to choose.

--
Tim Little
Message no. 5
From: The Digital Mage <mn3rge@****.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Wards etc
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 14:03:46 +0000 (GMT)
On Tue, 30 Jan 1996, Jonathan Wright wrote:

> On Tue, 30 Jan 1996, The Digital Mage wrote:
> > BY the way does anyone else find it illogical that the higher ward force
> > rating you attempt the lower force you'll probably get? I know that it
> > could be said that if you attempt something too tricky it could be
> > difficult to do -but that wouldn't explain why you'd end up creatinga
> > lower force ward, either you'd try to make it high force and succeed, or
> > you'd fail.
> >
> Try this analogy:
>
> If I ask you to build a brick wall that will stop a tank, and you failed
> that wall would probrably still stop a gunshot. Just because it doesn't
> stop a tank doesn't mean the wall collapses the moment you stop building it.
>
Personally I don't like using analogies as the choice of analogy can
illustrate different points of view.

Following your analogy though, if I tried to make a wall that's only
likely to stop a bullet, it will more likely be able to stop a bullet
than my attempt at trying to make a wall taht would stop a tank. (ie the
lower the force you try, the higher the force will actually be -I assume
the final force can't exceed the attempted force, though I don't believe
Grim2 actually spells that out :).


The Digital Mage : mn3rge@****.ac.uk
"Life is a choice, Death....an obligation."-Me
Shadowrun WWW site at http://www.bath.ac.uk/~mn3rge/Shadowrun
Message no. 6
From: The Digital Mage <mn3rge@****.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Wards etc
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 14:04:42 +0000 (GMT)
On Wed, 31 Jan 1996, Timothy Little wrote:

> >BY the way does anyone else find it illogical that the higher ward force
> >rating you attempt the lower force you'll probably get? I know that it
> >could be said that if you attempt something too tricky it could be
> >difficult to do -but that wouldn't explain why you'd end up creatinga
> >lower force ward, either you'd try to make it high force and succeed, or
> >you'd fail.
>
> The way I read it (on p. 92 of Grimoire 2nd ed), number of successes
> determines how many days it lasts, not what its Force is. The Force you get
> to choose.

Its both.
The Digital Mage : mn3rge@****.ac.uk
"Life is a choice, Death....an obligation."-Me
Shadowrun WWW site at http://www.bath.ac.uk/~mn3rge/Shadowrun
Message no. 7
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: Wards etc
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 11:44:10 +0100
Mark Steedman said on 31 Jan 96...

> > BY the way does anyone else find it illogical that the higher ward force
> > rating you attempt the lower force you'll probably get? I know that it
> > could be said that if you attempt something too tricky it could be
> > difficult to do -but that wouldn't explain why you'd end up creatinga
> > lower force ward, either you'd try to make it high force and succeed, or
> > you'd fail.
> >
> My opinion is the rules are fragged. They need rewriting so the force
> you get is what you aimed for, target number is force and duration is
> successes, or something like that. A full list rules write on this
> would be useful.

I just decided to take a look in my Grimthingy , and look what I noticed
on page 92: the line "Every 2 successes rolled give the ward 1 Rating
Point as an astral barrier." is crossed out, and so is the word "also" in
the next sentence. This is from the errata for the Grimoire II, and that
way, you always get a ward of the desired Force but the time it will last
varies with how well you roll your Sorcery test...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Sometimes it feels like )@&*()@&%#68%3*(48@&%
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Character Mortuary: http://huizen.dds.nl/~mortuary/mortuary.html <-

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Message no. 8
From: "Mark Steedman" <M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Wards etc
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 11:03:24 GMT
> From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
>
> I just decided to take a look in my Grimthingy , and look what I noticed
> on page 92: the line "Every 2 successes rolled give the ward 1 Rating
> Point as an astral barrier." is crossed out, and so is the word "also"
in
> the next sentence. This is from the errata for the Grimoire II, and that
> way, you always get a ward of the desired Force but the time it will last
> varies with how well you roll your Sorcery test...
>
Ah!!
You wouldn't happen to have that errata in a fromat you could mail
would you. I don't seen to have picked that one up in my web
searching.

Mark
Message no. 9
From: "A Halliwell" <u5a77@**.keele.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Wards etc
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 19:11:15 +0000 (GMT)
|Ah!!
|You wouldn't happen to have that errata in a fromat you could mail
|would you. I don't seen to have picked that one up in my web
|searching.

If I remember rightly, the shadowrun II and Grimything II errata's were
published in a British RPG magazine called Role-Playing Independent.
I have the copy at home (unfortunately, I don't return there from Uni very
often. Next time I *do* go back I'll try to remember to photocopy it.
--
______________________________________________________________________________
| |What to do if you find yourself stuck in a crackin |
|u5a77@**.keele.ac.uk |the ground beneath a giant bolder, which you can't |
| |move, with no hope of rescue. |
|Andrew Halliwell |Consider how lucky you are that life has been good |
|Principal in:- |to you so far... |
|Comp Sci & Visual Arts | -The BOOK, Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy. |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 10
From: t_little@**********.utas.edu.au (Timothy Little)
Subject: Re: Wards etc
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 08:53:01 +1100
[... Force rating of wards. ...]

>> The way I read it (on p. 92 of Grimoire 2nd ed), number of successes
>> determines how many days it lasts, not what its Force is. The Force you get
>> to choose.
>
>Its both.

"Warding requires the magician to make a Sorcery Test against the
desired Force Rating of the ward. The astral rating of the ward is equal to
that Force Rating and it remains active for a number of days equal to the
number of successes."


That is quite clear. But there are a very large number of unresolved
questions, especially with Awakenings extending the types of ward available.
For example:

What happens when a ward meets a ward? eg. you Ward the cockpit of a plane
to prevent spirits attacking the crew. The plane lands, and taxies into a
Warded hangar. What happens? What if the hangar had an Alarm ward? What
if the plane had a Masking ward (making things seem mundane), would the
alarm ward pick it up? Does an alarm ward detect detection spells if the
spell area includes part of the ward? Can an initiate synchronise his aura
to pass through an attuned ward with masked foci? Do the different types of
ward require different ritual materials? Can a masking ward be applied to a
person?

--
Tim Little
Message no. 11
From: t_little@**********.utas.edu.au (Timothy Little)
Subject: Re: Wards etc
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 17:24:34 +1100
>
>I just decided to take a look in my Grimthingy , and look what I noticed
>on page 92: the line "Every 2 successes rolled give the ward 1 Rating
>Point as an astral barrier." is crossed out, and so is the word "also"
in
>the next sentence. This is from the errata for the Grimoire II, and that
>way, you always get a ward of the desired Force but the time it will last
>varies with how well you roll your Sorcery test...

My Grimoire is a 1993 2nd printing, and I didn't even get that rule in print
at all. That explains a lot. I sort of thought you lot were all mad (but
expected it must be something like this).


--
Tim Little
Message no. 12
From: The Digital Mage <mn3rge@****.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Wards etc
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 13:19:08 +0000 (GMT)
On Thu, 1 Feb 1996, A Halliwell wrote:

> If I remember rightly, the shadowrun II and Grimything II errata's were
> published in a British RPG magazine called Role-Playing Independent.
> I have the copy at home (unfortunately, I don't return there from Uni very
> often. Next time I *do* go back I'll try to remember to photocopy it.
Ah yes <memory starts to come back> I believe I have that issue, and come
to think of it they were also in Ka.Ge I believe -but like you none of
that stuff is with me at Uni :(

Lucky I'm going home for the weekend then :)

The Digital Mage : mn3rge@****.ac.uk
"Life is a choice, Death....an obligation."-Me
Shadowrun WWW site at http://www.bath.ac.uk/~mn3rge/Shadowrun

Further Reading

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