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Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: Terry Amburgey <xanth@****.UKY.EDU>
Subject: wargamers
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 09:45:22 -0400
Gurth wrote:

>>Everything the gm does is for your benefit. 'Win/lose' is a cognitive frame
>>possessed only by munchkins and those unfortunate individuals who once
>>played war games. The only known cure is to become a gamemaster. Terry
>
>I'm not trying to begin another round of "discussions" like we had a few
>weeks ago on the topic of "GM-vs.-players games," but are you suggesting
>that, if you have ever played a win/lose (i.e. non-RP) game in your life,
>you cannot be a good GM? Furthermore, that all GMs and all wargamers are
>munchkins?

Not at all. However, in a much earlier thread it was hypothesized that
people who are new to roleplaying games and whose prior gaming experience is
in wargames are 'more likely' to see the game as a win/lose. I don't see a
win/lose approach as equivalent to being a munchkin [and I separated the two
in my post].

In my experience, new rpg players that come from wargaming are also more
likely to see character development as min/max problem covering
attributes/skills/equipment. It's the rough equivalent of a 2 player wargame
where each player has the same 'point total' to spend creating their forces.
I don't necessarily think this is a problem, just a personal observation.
All in all I would prefer experienced players/gms who have played a lot of
wargames than inexperienced players/gms that have not. Terry
Terry L. Amburgey Office: 606-257-7726
Associate Professor Home: 606-224-0636
College of Business & Economics Fax: 606-257-3577
University of Kentucky
Lexington, KY 40506
Message no. 2
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: wargamers
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 10:58:14 +0200
>In my experience, new rpg players that come from wargaming are also more
>likely to see character development as min/max problem covering
>attributes/skills/equipment.

Of course they do. Every damn game ever invented is about winning or losing,
so if you want to avoid those thoughts rename "roleplaying games" to
"roleplaying entertainment" or something similar, as long as you leave out
the word "game" and the automatic associations with winning it induces.

>All in all I would prefer experienced players/gms who have played a lot of
>wargames than inexperienced players/gms that have not. Terry

Then let me ask you this: how would you like people to become experienced
roleplayers, if it isn't by playing with already-experienced players?

--
Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I want you to notice when I'm not around
-> Unofficial Shadowrun Guru & NERPS Project Leader <-
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Message no. 3
From: John IV <John.Moeller@*.CC.UTAH.EDU>
Subject: Re: wargamers
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 14:36:08 -0600
On Fri, 15 Sep 1995, Gurth wrote:

> >All in all I would prefer experienced players/gms who have played a lot of
> >wargames than inexperienced players/gms that have not. Terry
>
> Then let me ask you this: how would you like people to become experienced
> roleplayers, if it isn't by playing with already-experienced players?

Aaaaaah, the great paradox. You only want to play with experienced
gamers, but they don't become experienced until they play with you.

Hi, all. Had a little trouble with mail filtering and fell off the list
somehow. I'm back, though.

John IV <John.Moeller@*.cc.utah.edu>
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"Sometimes after an electrical storm I see in 5 dimensions. Why are the
sixty of you looking at me like that?"

--Cornfed, from _Duckman_

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