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Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: davek@***.lonestar.org (David Kettler)
Subject: War Stories (was: So why would anyone become a shadowrunner...)
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 22:11:32 +0000
On Thu, Nov 16, 2006 at 01:19:01PM -0800, Zebulin M wrote:
> On 11/16/06, David Kettler <davek@***.lonestar.org> wrote:
> >
> >
> >I think I'm starting to ramble and get off topic, but I wanted to make one
> >last point: Keep your group in mind. While I personally don't like
> >playing
> >complete sociopaths, a lot of people (particularly those who are more
> >interested in stats than role-playing) do. I once tried playing a pacifist
> >(The will not kill kind. He was willing to shoot you with gel rounds.) in
> >a
> >group of vindictive psychos. Before the first run was over he ended up
> >shooting another PC to stop him from killing a guard who was begging for
> >mercy, secretly calling Lone Star to tell them where the PCs were, and
> >knocking down trees to block the road and prevent the PCs from escaping
> >(the
> >PCs, on the other hand, were all very heavily armed and by burning enough
> >karma managed to escape anyway)...needless to say, that character didn't
> >last long.
> >
> >
> I played the pacifist in a group of people who had varying moral compasses.
> In the end, it worked out, because while I wasn't willing to kill, I managed
> to be the "cooler head" in a lot of situations and the group tried to find
> ways around having to kill someone unless it was absolutely necessary. That
> said, I was only unwilling to kill, myself. I wouldn't allow someone to be
> killed by someone else if I didn't think it was deserved, but perhaps that's
> more of a "I want to keep my hands clean, and let someone else do the dirty
> work"? Still, it was a rather powerful moment when my character did finally
> kill someone. Needless to say, the rest of the group was absolutely stunned.
>

Well, I had made this character in the hopes of doing something similar. But in the case
of the shooting another PC thing (which started it all), the other PC had a character with
the vindictive flaw. There had been a firefight, and after his buddies were killed the
last guard surrendered to us. Well, this particular guard happened to have shot the PC
with the vindictive flaw (not seriously, or anything), and that PC was determined to kill
him. I couldn't let my pacifist character stand by while a guard who had already
surrendered and posed no threat to use was killed (besides, we started the firefight
anyway), so I tried to convince that PC to stop. The argument was short, he told the GM
he was going to kill the guard, I told the GM I was going to stop him, and the GM said
roll initiative. I won.

Needless to say, the other character's vindictive tendencies were then directed at my
character, and things went downhill from there. Ironically enough, the guard I was trying
to save was killed later when my character wasn't around.

In fact, about the only thing I managed to accomplish was raise the body count even
higher, particularly with the whole Lone Star ambush. The PCs survived by killing
everyone who attacked them...

--
Dave Kettler
davek@***.lonestar.org
SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org
Message no. 2
From: zebulingod@*****.com (Zebulin M)
Subject: War Stories (was: So why would anyone become a shadowrunner...)
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 14:25:12 -0800
On 11/16/06, David Kettler <davek@***.lonestar.org> wrote:
>
>
> Well, I had made this character in the hopes of doing something
> similar. But in the case of the shooting another PC thing (which started it
> all), the other PC had a character with the vindictive flaw. There had been
> a firefight, and after his buddies were killed the last guard surrendered to
> us. Well, this particular guard happened to have shot the PC with the
> vindictive flaw (not seriously, or anything), and that PC was determined to
> kill him. I couldn't let my pacifist character stand by while a guard who
> had already surrendered and posed no threat to use was killed (besides, we
> started the firefight anyway), so I tried to convince that PC to stop. The
> argument was short, he told the GM he was going to kill the guard, I told
> the GM I was going to stop him, and the GM said roll initiative. I won.
>
> Needless to say, the other character's vindictive tendencies were then
> directed at my character, and things went downhill from there. Ironically
> enough, the guard I was trying to save was killed later when my character
> wasn't around.
>
> In fact, about the only thing I managed to accomplish was raise the body
> count even higher, particularly with the whole Lone Star ambush. The PCs
> survived by killing everyone who attacked them...
>
>
*nod*

Vindictive can be a pain, but I guess that's why it's a flaw, no?

Generally, our resident munchkin will take those sort of "flaws" because
they fit into his whole, "This will let me kill more without having to
explain myself" character concept.

Zebulin
Message no. 3
From: swiftone@********.org (Brett Ritter)
Subject: War Stories (was: So why would anyone become a shadowrunner...)
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 17:33:47 -0500
On 11/16/06, Zebulin M <zebulingod@*****.com> wrote:
> Generally, our resident munchkin will take those sort of "flaws" because
> they fit into his whole, "This will let me kill more without having to
> explain myself" character concept.

One of the things that disappointed me about SR4 was that they didn't
adopt the newer concept of "flaws don't grant creation points, they
grant the opportunity for extra XP"

The basic idea is you don't get creation points. Take flaws if you
want them. If you RP your flaw at some detriment to your character,
you get an extra XP (Karma) for the session.

When I first heard this idea (for GURPS back in the day), the author
recommended just giving everyone the points they would have gotten for
flaws regardless (in SR 4 terms, make a 435 point character instead of
a 400 point character, but keep the 200 point basic attribute limit).
That should prevent players from complaining. Suddenly, more
realistic characters come about as a result, because people aren't
wedging in flaws because they "need" the points. Instead they take
flaws that match the character and they'd like to play. If they take
a flaw and never play it, no harm done.

It was one of my few disappointments with SR4, but there's nothing
stopping anyone from doing it themselves.
--
Brett Ritter / SwiftOne
swiftone@********.org

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