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Message no. 1
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Was that a Club? (Re: Armor)
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 10:58:49 EST
In a message dated 97-12-07 06:14:52 EST, gurth@******.NL writes:

> > A baceball bat does stun?????????
>
> It would count as a club in SR, so it does Stun damage.

Under most circumstances, you are very correct.

> > Darn, when i got hit i was sure i was more than stunned!
>
> SR isn't RL; blunt weapons do Stun damage even though they can break bones
> and cause other "real" wounds IRL.

There is the optional rule however allowing a person to go for "physical
wounds" instead of "stun wounds", IIRC Perhaps thsi bat in question is
what
you encountered then? Someone with intent to harm instead of intent to pummel
senseless?

-K
Message no. 2
From: Jeff Willis <thor@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Was that a Club? (Re: Armor)
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 10:06:28 -0600
>> > Darn, when i got hit i was sure i was more than stunned!
>There is the optional rule however allowing a person to go for "physical
>wounds" instead of "stun wounds", IIRC Perhaps thsi bat in question

Doesn't stun overflow to physical however? :)
Message no. 3
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Was that a Club? (Re: Armor)
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 11:15:37 EST
In a message dated 97-12-07 11:04:49 EST, thor@***.NET writes:

> >> > Darn, when i got hit i was sure i was more than stunned!
> >There is the optional rule however allowing a person to go for "physical
> >wounds" instead of "stun wounds", IIRC Perhaps thsi bat in
question
>
> Doesn't stun overflow to physical however? :)
>
Yes, it does actually, but I was referring to the rule that allowed for the
damage to immediately begin as physical. It halves the power, drops the code,
stuff like that...don't have a book near me, otherwise I'd give you a quote.
Anyone else help me out here???

-K
Message no. 4
From: Jeremiah Stevens <jeremiah@********.EDU>
Subject: Re: Was that a Club? (Re: Armor)
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 12:30:54 -0500
On Sun, 7 Dec 1997, Jeff Willis wrote:

> >> > Darn, when i got hit i was sure i was more than stunned!
> >There is the optional rule however allowing a person to go for "physical
> >wounds" instead of "stun wounds", IIRC Perhaps thsi bat in
question
>
> Doesn't stun overflow to physical however? :)
>
Yeah, but only after you're knocked unconscious. It would be quite
possible to break a bone (physical wound) without knocking someone out.
Even giving someone a concussion, which would knock them out, would also
result in a good degree of physical trauma.
Message no. 5
From: "J. G. du Chatinier" <chatin@*******.NL>
Subject: Re: Was that a Club? (Re: Armor)
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 20:35:00 +0100
At 12:30 07/12/1997 -0500, you wrote:
>On Sun, 7 Dec 1997, Jeff Willis wrote:
>
>> >> > Darn, when i got hit i was sure i was more than stunned!
>> >There is the optional rule however allowing a person to go for "physical
>> >wounds" instead of "stun wounds", IIRC Perhaps thsi bat in
question
>>
>> Doesn't stun overflow to physical however? :)
>>
>Yeah, but only after you're knocked unconscious. It would be quite
>possible to break a bone (physical wound) without knocking someone out.
>Even giving someone a concussion, which would knock them out, would also
>result in a good degree of physical trauma.
***
Yes, but you're going into specific hit-locations here. And I thought
Shadowrun was too cinematic for that....

CU'round,

Jod
chatin@*******.nl
Message no. 6
From: Jeremiah Stevens <jeremiah@********.EDU>
Subject: Re: Was that a Club? (Re: Armor)
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 15:16:22 -0500
On Sun, 7 Dec 1997, J. G. du Chatinier wrote:

> At 12:30 07/12/1997 -0500, you wrote:
> >On Sun, 7 Dec 1997, Jeff Willis wrote:
> >
> >> >> > Darn, when i got hit i was sure i was more than stunned!
> >> >There is the optional rule however allowing a person to go for
"physical
> >> >wounds" instead of "stun wounds", IIRC Perhaps thsi bat
in question
> >>
> >> Doesn't stun overflow to physical however? :)
> >>
> >Yeah, but only after you're knocked unconscious. It would be quite
> >possible to break a bone (physical wound) without knocking someone out.
> >Even giving someone a concussion, which would knock them out, would also
> >result in a good degree of physical trauma.
> ***
> Yes, but you're going into specific hit-locations here. And I thought
> Shadowrun was too cinematic for that....

Yeah, but how the hell could you play a Mafia thug without being able to
knee-cap somebody. :)
Message no. 7
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: Was that a Club? (Re: Armor)
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 13:20:15 -0700
At 20:35 12/7/97 +0100, you wrote:

>Yes, but you're going into specific hit-locations here. And I thought
>Shadowrun was too cinematic for that....

I've actually worked out some hit-location rules that replace the called
shot rules, and some melee aimed attack rules. The use the Killer
Crosshairs supplement by Biohazard games, and I'll be posting them to my
web site as soon as I can get them play-tested a bit...

-Adam J

-
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ AdamJ@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
The Shadowrun Archive Co-Maintainer: http://www.interware.it/shadowrun
Message no. 8
From: Fade <runefo@***.UIO.NO>
Subject: Re: Was that a Club? (Re: Armor)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 01:20:40 +0000
> > Doesn't stun overflow to physical however? :)
> >
> Yes, it does actually, but I was referring to the rule that allowed for the
> damage to immediately begin as physical. It halves the power, drops the code,
> stuff like that...don't have a book near me, otherwise I'd give you a quote.
> Anyone else help me out here???

It is not a standard rule, but it says that with bone lacing you can
go for P/2 physical instead of stun damage with your unarmed attacks.
(Bone lacing, Shadowtech). It is not, however, unreasonable to use
this for other weapons, baseball bats for instance, but certainly not
every weapon.

--
Fade

And the Prince of Lies said:
"To reign is worth ambition, though in Hell:
Better to reign in hell than to serve in heaven."
-John Milton, Paradise Lost
Message no. 9
From: "Simon.M" <Simon.M@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Was that a Club? (Re: Armor)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 00:31:49 -0000
I didn't get knocked out, i didn't get concusion and i certianly didn't get
a broken bone.
But oh my god i couldn't walk on my leg for ages.
Does stun do that to you?
Just a query.

Also, when i fractured my finger in a fight, i was able to use it better
than the un-broken leg.
So would that physical equate to stun as well?

And!
How about a rule that if you make a bod/will test when you reach full stun
you don't fall unconcious?

hay, i do know something about real life!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------
"Happy birthday to you, happy birthday to you, happy birthday dear... you,
happy birthday to you."
-Me, saturday.
Message no. 10
From: William Gallas <wgallas@*****.FR>
Subject: Re: Was that a Club? (Re: Armor)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 09:49:41 +0100
>> >> > Darn, when i got hit i was sure i was more than stunned!
>> >There is the optional rule however allowing a person to go for "physical
>> >wounds" instead of "stun wounds", IIRC Perhaps thsi bat in
question
>>
>> Doesn't stun overflow to physical however? :)
>>
>Yeah, but only after you're knocked unconscious. It would be quite
>possible to break a bone (physical wound) without knocking someone out.
>Even giving someone a concussion, which would knock them out, would also
>result in a good degree of physical trauma.

If you wa&nt to make physical damage before knocking someone unconscious,
you can use this house rule (I just invented it and so didn't test it):
Each weapon does primary damages. That's physical for pistol and stun for
clubs. If these primary damages (after every dice rolls) are superior to
your body (i.e. you take more than 4 boxes when your body is 4 or less),
you take secondary damage. These secondary damages are physical if your
attack is stun and it's stun if your primary damage is physical. This
damage is equal to half the boxes you took as primary damage.
For exemple, Sam fires with his gun at Bob. After the different dice rolls,
he makes a serious wound which is 6 boxes. Because Bob only has a body of
4, he does write 6 physical boxes of primary damage and 3 stun boxes as
secondary damage.
If you want a more deadly system, you can use half the body to the
comparison to damages. Thus, a sammy with body 12 will still suffer
secondary damage from a serious wound.

Cobra.

E-mail adress : wgallas@*****.fr
Quote : "You are who you know"
Message no. 11
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Was that a Club? (Re: Armor)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 11:50:09 +0100
Ereskanti said on 11:15/ 7 Dec 97...

> > Doesn't stun overflow to physical however? :)
> >
> Yes, it does actually

You're unconscious before that happens, though: the primary requirement
for Stun to overflow to Physical is that you take Deadly Stun first...
Using only that rule, you could never injure someone with a weapon doing
Stun damage as long as they're conscious.

> but I was referring to the rule that allowed for the damage to
> immediately begin as physical. It halves the power, drops the code,
> stuff like that...don't have a book near me, otherwise I'd give you a
> quote. Anyone else help me out here???

My books are under my computer, so I'll look the details up for you... FoF
page 83: The Damage code stays as it is, but you have to add a +4 TN
modifier to the attack. If someone wants to do this, I'd probably rule
that if you miss because of the +4 (e.g. you had to roll 8 but rolled 5),
you still hit but cause the normal Stun damage for the weapon.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - 5044116
N.B. Please do not read the lyrics while listening to the recordings.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

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Message no. 12
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Was that a Club? (Re: Armor)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 12:20:54 +0100
Simon.M said on 0:31/ 8 Dec 97...

> I didn't get knocked out, i didn't get concusion and i certianly didn't get
> a broken bone.
> But oh my god i couldn't walk on my leg for ages.
> Does stun do that to you?
> Just a query.

I'd say that's a pretty good example of what SR calls Stun damage. You say
you had difficulty walking, which translates to the TN penalty for taking
Stun damage.

BTW, it would really have been something special if you had gotten a
concussion from being hit in the legs :)

> Also, when i fractured my finger in a fight, i was able to use it better
> than the un-broken leg.
> So would that physical equate to stun as well?

Very simple: you had probably taken Serious Stun damage when you got hit
in your legs but only Light Physical when you broke your finger.

> How about a rule that if you make a bod/will test when you reach full stun
> you don't fall unconcious?

That could be usable as a house rule. If you do, though, I suggest also
using that for physical damage -- normally you go unconscious and start
dying when you reach Deadly physical damage, but this way you could be
conscious and dying.

> hay, i do know something about real life!

More than some of us do ;)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - 5044116
N.B. Please do not read the lyrics while listening to the recordings.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
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Message no. 13
From: "J. G. du Chatinier" <chatin@*******.NL>
Subject: Re: Was that a Club? (Re: Armor)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 16:04:35 +0100
At 15:16 07/12/1997 -0500, you wrote:
>On Sun, 7 Dec 1997, J. G. du Chatinier wrote:
<<KASNIPPA!>>

>
>Yeah, but how the hell could you play a Mafia thug without being able to
>knee-cap somebody. :)
***
Yes, that's true.;) Maybe we should think of a mafia-move.. ;)

Jod
chatin@*******.nl
Message no. 14
From: James Paul Morgan <jpmorgan@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Was that a Club? (Re: Armor)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 10:26:45 -0700
On Mon, 8 Dec 1997, Gurth wrote:

> My books are under my computer, so I'll look the details up for you... FoF
> page 83: The Damage code stays as it is, but you have to add a +4 TN
> modifier to the attack. If someone wants to do this, I'd probably rule
> that if you miss because of the +4 (e.g. you had to roll 8 but rolled 5),
> you still hit but cause the normal Stun damage for the weapon.
>

The problem is that it takes away some of the risk of making that called
shot. There are less places to do heavy physical damage, so you'd have to
be aiming for one of them. (Head, chest, major joint.) If you miss, it's
because you were concentrating too hard on hitting that one spot and the
other person parried you, and perhaps counter-attacked as well.



See ya around the Mulberry bush.

--James

:)
Message no. 15
From: Mon goose <landsquid@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Was that a Club? (Re: Armor)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 14:24:27 PST
>I didn't get knocked out, i didn't get concusion and i certianly didn't
get
>a broken bone.
>But oh my god i couldn't walk on my leg for ages.
>Does stun do that to you?
>Just a query.

Actually, NO sort of damage has any effect on normal walking in SR.
"There should be a RULE against that...."

Hell, Iv'e had WORKOUTS where it was agonizing to climb stairs for a
week afterwords because of lactic acid buildup in my legs. THAT wasn't
physical damage, either.

And not all falls and vehicle colisions should do physical damage.

EEASH. How many kinds of damage do we need- non-physical stun, traumatic
non-physical, non-traumatic physical, and physical trauma?

:)


Mongoose / Technological progress is like an ax in the hands
of a psychotic - Einstein

get sucked into -The Vortex- Chicago's shadowland BBS
http://www.concentric.net/~evamarie/srmain.htm


______________________________________________________
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Message no. 16
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Was that a Club? (Re: Armor)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 18:22:38 -0800
> Actually, NO sort of damage has any effect on normal walking in SR.
> "There should be a RULE against that...."

Suggestion: Apply the negative modifier toward Initiative toward
movement as well.

Option A: Straight off the Running multiple. This means you could still
hobble along when wounded, you just won't be running anywhere. (Note:
Sucks to be a Dwarf or Troll under this rule. Perhaps allow a minimum
multiplier of x1 until unconscious?)

Option B: Striaght off the Quickness attribute. This means you can
still run and walk, just do neither very well. This also means the
uncybered will come very close to paralytic quickly, while the
heavily-cybered barely suffer at all.

Somewhere between the two is a rational balance.


-Mb
Message no. 17
From: "Simon.M" <Simon.M@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Was that a Club? (Re: Armor)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 21:04:23 -0000
>BTW, it would really have been something special if you had >gotten a
>concussion from being hit in the legs :)

Hay, i also hit the pavement!

>> Also, when i fractured my finger in a fight, i was able to use it better
>> than the un-broken leg.
>> So would that physical equate to stun as well?

>Very simple: you had probably taken Serious Stun damage >when you got hit
>in your legs but only Light Physical when you broke your finger.

The more i think about all this, the more i think a hit table would suit the
realism i see in shadowrun. Someone mentioned something about this? When are
you gonna see about writing it?

>> How about a rule that if you make a bod/will test when you >>reach full
stun
>> you don't fall unconcious?

>That could be usable as a house rule. If you do, though, I >suggest also
>using that for physical damage -- normally you go unconscious >and start
>dying when you reach Deadly physical damage, but this way >you could be
>conscious and dying.

I already do this, in a fashion. When you reach deadly, if your someone who
i concider 'average'(ie, normal humans/elves[trolls, dwarves and orks get a
bit of a repreve here]), you go down. If your about as tough as a sam you
get to be concious though your dieing. You can crawl, moan and basicly
attract attention from the nearest mage. It's not all bad!

>> hay, i do know something about real life!

>More than some of us do ;)

Not that much, beleive me.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------
"Ouch."
THAWP
"Ouch."
Dumk(hitting pavement).
"This is a bad day."
-Me, guess when.
Message no. 18
From: "Simon.M" <Simon.M@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Was that a Club? (Re: Armor)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 22:43:28 -0000
>Hell, Iv'e had WORKOUTS where it was agonizing to climb stairs for a
>week afterwords because of lactic acid buildup in my legs. THAT wasn't
>physical damage, either.

Thats one of the things you get with too much effort. Stun damage. In... i
think it's Super Tuesday, when you have to run up a flight of stairs you can
take stun damage from exaustion. Grovey!

>EEASH. How many kinds of damage do we need- non-physical stun, traumatic
>non-physical, non-traumatic physical, and physical trauma?

Hmmmmmm...
Maybe *evil grin*.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------
"Pass them off at the head!!... Ummmm.. No, thats wrong."
-Can't remember.
Message no. 19
From: Geoff <geoffwa@***********.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Was that a Club? (Re: Armor)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 17:58:10 +1000
<snip>

>>> >> > Darn, when i got hit i was sure i was more than stunned!
>>> >There is the optional rule however allowing a person to go for
"physical
>>> >wounds" instead of "stun wounds", IIRC Perhaps thsi bat
in question
>>>
<snip>


The general gist of damages seems to follow these guidellines:

Light Wound: Severed/broken finger, broken nose, flesh wound, small burn,
deep cut.

Moderate Wound: Broken arm, damaged/destroyed eye, partially severed
hand/foot, broken sternum.

Serious Wound: Damaged organs, severed limb, severe burns.

Although you recover from stun damage quicky you still probably get bruises
and other physical side effects. Most ordinary people avoid anything over
deadly stun damage (body 2, willpower 2).

Geoff

'What happens if you're on a train traveling at the speed of light and you
run forward?'
"Most people will rather die than think." - Wolfgang Langewiesche
geoffwa@***********.com.au
Message no. 20
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Was that a Club? (Re: Armor)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 11:37:44 +0100
Mon goose said on 14:24/ 8 Dec 97...

> Actually, NO sort of damage has any effect on normal walking in SR.
> "There should be a RULE against that...."
>
> Hell, Iv'e had WORKOUTS where it was agonizing to climb stairs for a
> week afterwords because of lactic acid buildup in my legs. THAT wasn't
> physical damage, either.

How about applying the initiative modifier for wounds to Quickness as
well? Don't re-calculate Reaction, though, else you effectively increase
the initiative penalty by 50%.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - 5044116
N.B. Please do not read the lyrics while listening to the recordings.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
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Message no. 21
From: James Lindsay <jlindsay@******.CA>
Subject: Re: Was that a Club? (Re: Armor)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 05:14:37 GMT
On Mon, 8 Dec 1997 11:50:09 +0100, Gurth wrote:

> Ereskanti said on 11:15/ 7 Dec 97...
>
> > > Doesn't stun overflow to physical however? :)
> > >
> > Yes, it does actually
>
> You're unconscious before that happens, though: the primary requirement
> for Stun to overflow to Physical is that you take Deadly Stun first...
> Using only that rule, you could never injure someone with a weapon doing
> Stun damage as long as they're conscious.
>
> > but I was referring to the rule that allowed for the damage to
> > immediately begin as physical. It halves the power, drops the code,
> > stuff like that...don't have a book near me, otherwise I'd give you a
> > quote. Anyone else help me out here???
>
> My books are under my computer, so I'll look the details up for you... FoF
> page 83: The Damage code stays as it is, but you have to add a +4 TN
> modifier to the attack. If someone wants to do this, I'd probably rule
> that if you miss because of the +4 (e.g. you had to roll 8 but rolled 5),
> you still hit but cause the normal Stun damage for the weapon.

I never liked that "+4" modifier. It made such tasks (doing stun with
lethal weapons and vice versa) just too difficult. A normal person in
melee already has a 50% chance of hitting per skill level (ie: target
number = 4). Increasing the target number to 8 reduces the chance of
scoring a hit to about 14%. That's a bit too much of a shift when you want
to break bones with a baseball bat. It does sound valid when you are
trying to knock someone out with a knife or axe, however.

I'm going to try to convince my ref to reduce this modifier to "+1" or
"+2", but only for Stun weapons intent on causing Physical damage.



James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia
"http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero";

Money talks... it usually says "bend over"...
Message no. 22
From: James Lindsay <jlindsay@******.CA>
Subject: Re: Was that a Club? (Re: Armor)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 05:14:39 GMT
On Mon, 8 Dec 1997 00:31:49 -0000, Simon.M wrote:

> I didn't get knocked out, i didn't get concusion and i certianly didn't get
> a broken bone.
> But oh my god i couldn't walk on my leg for ages.
> Does stun do that to you?
> Just a query.

Sounds more like Physical damage if you ask me. If your definition of
"ages" means a minimum of a few days, Stun damage heals much faster than
that.

> Also, when i fractured my finger in a fight, i was able to use it better
> than the un-broken leg.
> So would that physical equate to stun as well?

The problem with Shadowrun combat is that they assume injury penalties will
affect a character *whatever* he tries to do. Obviously, a fractured thumb
will give you at least +1 (most likely +3) on anything you attempt to do
with your hands, although it won't be much of a problem when running,
jumping, or kicking.

> And!
> How about a rule that if you make a bod/will test when you reach full stun
> you don't fall unconcious?

Hmmm... I like it. Of course, there would be even less incentive to use
Stun weapons, since they don't "guarantee" a knockout like the original
rules did :)

> hay, i do know something about real life!

They say there's nothing more dangerous than someone with "a small bit of
knowledge" (except for maybe a green lieutenant with a map and a compass).



James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia
"http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero";

Money talks... it usually says "bend over"...
Message no. 23
From: "Simon.M" <Simon.M@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Was that a Club? (Re: Armor)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 13:51:19 -0000
>> I didn't get knocked out, i didn't get concusion and i certianly didn't
get
>> a broken bone.
>> But oh my god i couldn't walk on my leg for ages.
>> Does stun do that to you?
>> Just a query.
>
>Sounds more like Physical damage if you ask me. If your definition of
>"ages" means a minimum of a few days, Stun damage heals much faster than
>that.


Ages mant about two days of hobbeling round like i had a peg leg and a few
more days yelling bloody murder whenever someone hit it by 'accident'. The
bruse lasted for ages.
But, the point of this was, not really to ask if it was stun or not, but to
ask wheather or not a baceball bat would do stun or physical. I am
personally more inclined to say physical.

>> Also, when i fractured my finger in a fight, i was able to use it better
>> than the un-broken leg.
>> So would that physical equate to stun as well?
>
>The problem with Shadowrun combat is that they assume injury penalties will
>affect a character *whatever* he tries to do. Obviously, a fractured thumb
>will give you at least +1 (most likely +3) on anything you attempt to do
>with your hands, although it won't be much of a problem when running,
>jumping, or kicking.

Well, i was out and playing socker the day after. Of course, i didn't go in
goals. Hurt like hell when i was being jared around, but it didn't really
stop me from playing at all. I am now thinking of a hit location table not
just for spescific damage, but also for spescific area damage. Hmmmmmm...

>> And!
>> How about a rule that if you make a bod/will test when you reach full
stun
>> you don't fall unconcious?
>
>Hmmm... I like it. Of course, there would be even less incentive to use
>Stun weapons, since they don't "guarantee" a knockout like the original
>rules did :)

Ahhhhh, but doesn't that sound interesting. An added edge of danger for the
do good runner(ie, the previously thought unconsious guard shoots jim the
runner in the back as soon as it's turned. But I'd give Jim a perception
test to get out of it. Of course, after another hit, regardless of severity,
they would go down.).

>> hay, i do know something about real life!
>
>They say there's nothing more dangerous than someone with "a small bit of
>knowledge".

In that case, Jaws, Rockie, Terminstors, Supermen, and all other bad and
good guys look out. Cos' i have VERY, VERY little knowledge.

Grrrrrrrrr!!!!

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"Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."
-Vince Lombardi.
Message no. 24
From: James Lindsay <jlindsay@******.CA>
Subject: Re: Was that a Club? (Re: Armor)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 21:11:28 GMT
On Wed, 10 Dec 1997 13:51:19 -0000, Simon.M wrote:

> >> I didn't get knocked out, i didn't get concusion and i certianly didn't
> get
> >> a broken bone.
> >> But oh my god i couldn't walk on my leg for ages.
> >> Does stun do that to you?
> >> Just a query.
> >
> >Sounds more like Physical damage if you ask me. If your definition of
> >"ages" means a minimum of a few days, Stun damage heals much faster
than
> >that.
>
> Ages mant about two days of hobbeling round like i had a peg leg and a few
> more days yelling bloody murder whenever someone hit it by 'accident'. The
> bruse lasted for ages.
> But, the point of this was, not really to ask if it was stun or not, but to
> ask wheather or not a baceball bat would do stun or physical. I am
> personally more inclined to say physical.

How 'bout this (and this hasn't been playtested since I just thought of
it):

*All* weapons do physical damage. Weapons that would do stun damage under
the Shadowrun rules have their damage level reduced by one level (reduce
the power of Light damage weapons by two to allow them to do _some_
damage).

To compensate, all weapons originally classed as stun weapons have a chance
of causing instantaneous unconsciousness with each and every impact. If
the weapon causes at least a light wound, roll (?) to see if the victim is
rendered unconscious. Physical adepts might be able to do the same thing
even if the weapon used fails to cause any damage.

As an optional rule, weapons that cause physical damage have a chance to
cause instantaneous unconsciousness as well, although the chance would be
far less likely.




James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia
"http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero";

Money talks... it usually says "bend over"...
Message no. 25
From: NightRain <nightrain@***.BRISNET.ORG.AU>
Subject: Re: Was that a Club? (Re: Armor)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 13:51:05 +1000
>How 'bout this (and this hasn't been playtested since I just thought of
>it):
>
>*All* weapons do physical damage. Weapons that would do stun damage under
>the Shadowrun rules have their damage level reduced by one level (reduce
>the power of Light damage weapons by two to allow them to do _some_
>damage).
>
>To compensate, all weapons originally classed as stun weapons have a
chance
>of causing instantaneous unconsciousness with each and every impact. If
>the weapon causes at least a light wound, roll (?) to see if the victim is
>rendered unconscious. Physical adepts might be able to do the same thing
>even if the weapon used fails to cause any damage.
>
>As an optional rule, weapons that cause physical damage have a chance to
>cause instantaneous unconsciousness as well, although the chance would be
>far less likely.


I've got a house rule that says you must make a willpower test versus the
number of squares of damage taken, plus any pre-existing wound modifiers.
If they fail, they fall un-conscious. This is for either stun or physical
damage. I guess if you were to use the rules you just suggested, you would
up the TN by a certain amount against the existing stun weapons.

NightRain.

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