Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: Bob Tockley <zzdeden@****.ASGARD.NET.AU>
Subject: Re: Watchers and Initiative
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 11:42:00 +1000
POINT 1)
Ok, already - I've had enough. WIll you get it through your heads that
Watchers cannot manifest physically - they can't be shot, they can't be
punched (unless you're astrally active), etc. etc.

POINT 2)
Sheesh, I've just finished my 'extensive trial of new rules' phase of SR3
and have run through more than a dozen adventures with around that many
different gaming groups. Hmmmn. Lesse, most of the rules work out pretty
damned well (gotta love the groans from the munchies; "What happened to
Firearms? Whaddaya mean I gotta buy like five skills?!? This sucks!"),
however I'm not too sure about the initiative system. It simply isn't
linear enough to reflect combat.
To counter this I ended up bastardizing SR2 and SR3 rules to make one
that seems to work a lot better (at least for my purposes) than the two of
them work individually. In essence, everyone states their general
intention at the beginning of the combat turn ("Those gangers are taking
out some very large clubs and laughing as they start towards you.", "I'm
going for cover", "That troll's going down!", etc.) in reverse initiative
order (this'll allow faster characters to declare and thus respond to the
intentions of slower character). Then, after every action the character
makes the player declares the basic intentions for his next action -
allowing others to "see it coming".
The only problem I can see with this system is that it requires a little
extra book-keeping - otherwise it's identical to SR2 initiative. Gimme
some feedback will you.


- ARKHAM
"Trust me - hitting someone is always the answer. The trick is to
figuring out who to hit and how hard to hit 'em...."
Message no. 2
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Watchers and Initiative
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 21:21:34 -0500
On Fri, 28 Aug 1998 11:42:00 +1000 Bob Tockley
<zzdeden@****.ASGARD.NET.AU> writes:
<SNIP>
>POINT 2)
> Sheesh, I've just finished my 'extensive trial of new rules' phase of
SR3
>and have run through more than a dozen adventures with around that many
>different gaming groups. Hmmmn. Lesse, most of the rules work out
pretty
>damned well (gotta love the groans from the munchies; "What happened to
>Firearms? Whaddaya mean I gotta buy like five skills?!? This sucks!"),
>however I'm not too sure about the initiative system. It simply isn't
>linear enough to reflect combat.

Actually, I've been pushing my group to give SR3 a chance and in the last
game, the co-GM GMed and in the first combat scene we rolled for
intiative and the Tin Man --err-- Street Sam went first ... duh ... The
Street Sam said he was going to move out into the open and start
shooting. The GM said "Oh. By the way, we're using the third edition
intiative sytem." Suddenly the Street Sam decided to stay behind cover.
I think here is where it is more realistic. (or to put it more
accurately, it promotes realistic behavior.)

<SNIP Suggestion>
>
>
>- ARKHAM
> "Trust me - hitting someone is always the answer. The trick is to
>figuring out who to hit and how hard to hit 'em...."

D. Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
o/` Trideo killed the Video Star ... o/`

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Message no. 3
From: Bob Tockley <zzdeden@****.ASGARD.NET.AU>
Subject: Re: Watchers and Initiative
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 21:04:57 +1000
>Actually, I've been pushing my group to give SR3 a chance and in the last
>game, the co-GM GMed and in the first combat scene we rolled for
>intiative and the Tin Man --err-- Street Sam went first ... duh ... The
>Street Sam said he was going to move out into the open and start
>shooting. The GM said "Oh. By the way, we're using the third edition
>intiative sytem." Suddenly the Street Sam decided to stay behind cover.
>I think here is where it is more realistic. (or to put it more
>accurately, it promotes realistic behavior.)
>
If you correctly utilize rules like covering/ suppression fire (which last
ten phases - even through to the next combat turn) you won't have to worry
about non-realistic actions from your players. It also increases the
effective rate of fire (or at least ammunition usage) for ranged weapons -
making it more realistic for firearms and suchlike. As with all things, if
you use the relevant rules with a couple of twists you can easily imitate
reality (which I know not all of you want to do).


- ARKHAM
"Trust me - hitting someone is always the answer. The trick is to
figuring out who to hit and how hard to hit 'em...."
Message no. 4
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Watchers and Initiative
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 06:31:04 -0500
On Fri, 28 Aug 1998 21:04:57 +1000 Bob Tockley
<zzdeden@****.ASGARD.NET.AU> writes:
>>Actually, I've been pushing my group to give SR3 a chance and in the
last
>>game, the co-GM GMed and in the first combat scene we rolled for
>>intiative and the Tin Man --err-- Street Sam went first ... duh ... The
>>Street Sam said he was going to move out into the open and start
>>shooting. The GM said "Oh. By the way, we're using the third edition
>>intiative sytem." Suddenly the Street Sam decided to stay behind cover.
>>I think here is where it is more realistic. (or to put it more
>>accurately, it promotes realistic behavior.)

>If you correctly utilize rules like covering/ suppression fire (which
last
>ten phases - even through to the next combat turn) you won't have to
worry
>about non-realistic actions from your players. It also increases the
>effective rate of fire (or at least ammunition usage) for ranged weapons
-
>making it more realistic for firearms and suchlike. As with all things,
if
>you use the relevant rules with a couple of twists you can easily
imitate
>reality (which I know not all of you want to do).
>
>
>- ARKHAM
<SNIP Sig>

How do you use supression fire against someone you don't know is there
until he comes around the corner and startsshooting (By which time, in
SR2, it's too late)? Does everybody in your game carry FA weapons and
lay down suppression fire in all directions at the first sign of trouble?

D. Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
o/` Trideo killed the Video Star ... o/`

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Message no. 5
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Watchers and Initiative
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 15:08:19 +0100
And verily, did Bob Tockley hastily scribble thusly...
|
|POINT 1)
| Ok, already - I've had enough. WIll you get it through your heads that
|Watchers cannot manifest physically - they can't be shot, they can't be
|punched (unless you're astrally active), etc. etc.

Why?
I can't recall anyone saying they could...
(Or have I been skipping the wrong threads?)
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
Message no. 6
From: Bob Tockley <zzdeden@****.ASGARD.NET.AU>
Subject: Re: Watchers and Initiative
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 10:47:28 +1000
>
>How do you use supression fire against someone you don't know is there
>until he comes around the corner and startsshooting (By which time, in
>SR2, it's too late)? Does everybody in your game carry FA weapons and
>lay down suppression fire in all directions at the first sign of trouble?
>

Answer to question 1: You don't. In that situation neither SR2 or SR3
makes a difference.
Answer to question 2: No. But I use a house rule that allows you can
utilize SS and SA weapons for covering/suppression fire - not that it's
particularly impressive or anything - 1 or 2 rounds respectively instead of
the 6, 10, or 15 rounds from BF and FA weapons.


- ARKHAM
"Trust me - hitting someone is always the answer. The trick is to
figuring out who to hit and how hard to hit 'em...."
Message no. 7
From: Bob Tockley <zzdeden@****.ASGARD.NET.AU>
Subject: Re: Watchers and Initiative
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 10:49:48 +1000
>Why?
>I can't recall anyone saying they could...
>(Or have I been skipping the wrong threads?)
>--

Nope, no wrong thread skipping involved. I'm just getting really fed up
with the fact that so many people miss such an obvious fact. The worst
thing is that it's starting to reflect in the sourcebooks. <sighs>
Awakenings was such a let down...


- ARKHAM
"Trust me - hitting someone is always the answer. The trick is to
figuring out who to hit and how hard to hit 'em...."

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Watchers and Initiative, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!