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Message no. 1
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Iridios)
Subject: Weapon design question.
Date: Mon Jul 9 21:35:01 2001
Greetings,

I'm designing a security drone that uses specific designed LMGs as it's
main weaponry. Looking through R2, R3, SR3, and CC, I cannot find any LMGs
designed or designated as primarily vehicular weapons.
No problem, I say. Open up to the CC weapon design rules (I know, not the
best) and I can't find anything even remotely like a design option for
vehicular weaponry. So I made one up.

Design Option
Vehicular Mount: Allows the weapon to be mounted in a turret or
firm/hardpoint without conversion. Available only for "Long" weapons such as
shotguns, rifles, etc. This design option also requires the use of the
under barrel mount.
DP:10
FCU:-1
Weight: +10% of Frame weight
Concealability: -1

These numbers are tentative. I was wondering if anyone had any critiques,
suggestions, or alterations.

--
Iridios

Pendere Et Illegitimi Non Carborundum
Message no. 2
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Chris Shaffer)
Subject: Weapon design question.
Date: Mon Jul 9 22:15:09 2001
At 08:40 PM 7/9/2001, you wrote:
> Vehicular Mount: Allows the weapon to be mounted in a turret or
>firm/hardpoint without conversion. Available only for "Long" weapons such as
>shotguns, rifles, etc. This design option also requires the use of the
>under barrel mount.

If you don't convert it, it isn't available for use with sensors, thus, why
aren't you just using a pintle or ring mount?


-----
The reason more people object to fur than leather is because
well-dressed women are easier to harass than motorcycle
gangs.
Chris Shaffer chris@*****.net
http://www.uic.edu/~shaffer/
Message no. 3
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Iridios)
Subject: Weapon design question.
Date: Mon Jul 9 22:30:01 2001
Chris Shaffer wrote:
>
> At 08:40 PM 7/9/2001, you wrote:
> > Vehicular Mount: Allows the weapon to be mounted in a turret or
> >firm/hardpoint without conversion. Available only for "Long" weapons
such as
> >shotguns, rifles, etc. This design option also requires the use of the
> >under barrel mount.
>
> If you don't convert it, it isn't available for use with sensors, thus, why
> aren't you just using a pintle or ring mount?

Well, I did say I wanted something to go into a drone. Basically I want a
weapon that's manufactured to be installed in a remote turrent or a remote
fixed mount. I could take any of the listed LMGs and put it onto a pintle
mount, but where would the gunner sit? :)


--
Iridios

Pendere Et Illegitimi Non Carborundum
Message no. 4
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Chris Shaffer)
Subject: Weapon design question.
Date: Mon Jul 9 22:50:00 2001
At 09:35 PM 7/9/2001, you wrote:
>Well, I did say I wanted something to go into a drone. Basically I want a
>weapon that's manufactured to be installed in a remote turrent or a remote
>fixed mount. I could take any of the listed LMGs and put it onto a pintle
>mount, but where would the gunner sit? :)

I'm confused. Why don't you just use the free firearm conversion kit from
R3 p136? Why design something that costs 10 design points (e.g. 10,000Y *
mark-up) when you can have it for free?


-----
Hukd on fanix wrkd fur mee.
Chris Shaffer chris@*****.net
http://www.uic.edu/~shaffer/
Message no. 5
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Iridios)
Subject: Weapon design question.
Date: Mon Jul 9 23:05:01 2001
Chris Shaffer wrote:
>
> At 09:35 PM 7/9/2001, you wrote:
> >Well, I did say I wanted something to go into a drone. Basically I want a
> >weapon that's manufactured to be installed in a remote turrent or a remote
> >fixed mount. I could take any of the listed LMGs and put it onto a pintle
> >mount, but where would the gunner sit? :)
>
> I'm confused. Why don't you just use the free firearm conversion kit from
> R3 p136? Why design something that costs 10 design points (e.g. 10,000Y *
> mark-up) when you can have it for free?

1.) The firearm conversion kit isn't free. That's a misprint, the design
point table was supposed to be copied from R2 and wasn't.

2.) The 10 DP isn't vehicle design DP, it's weapons design DP from cannon
companion, which is only 50¥ additional cost.

3.) Reading my errata for the conversion kit, the vehicle DP cost for an LMG
is 2 points or 200¥ as compared to only 50¥ to design it into the weapon.


--
Iridios

Pendere Et Illegitimi Non Carborundum
Message no. 6
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Chris Shaffer)
Subject: Weapon design question.
Date: Tue Jul 10 00:50:01 2001
At 10:10 PM 7/9/2001, you wrote:
>1.) The firearm conversion kit isn't free. That's a misprint, the design
>point table was supposed to be copied from R2 and wasn't.
>
>2.) The 10 DP isn't vehicle design DP, it's weapons design DP from cannon
>companion, which is only 50¥ additional cost.
>
>3.) Reading my errata for the conversion kit, the vehicle DP cost for an LMG
>is 2 points or 200¥ as compared to only 50¥ to design it into the weapon.

Ah, I see. Sorry. Though I do have to note that, since the R3 errata
hasn't been published, you shouldn't assume that everyone is aware of all
the R3 errata or has the previous sourcebook for reference.

At any rate, given that the mark-up factor for most drones is .25, the cost
is the same either way. For a few larger drones, it would be more
expensive to use the R3 firearms conversion kit. If the conversion kit is
reusable, it would be cheaper to go that route. If not, then perhaps your
method would save a few nuyen. (Is it reusable? Inquiring minds want to
know.)


-----
"Space isn't remote at all. It's only an hour's drive away
if your car could go straight upwards." --Fred Hoyle
Chris Shaffer chris@*****.net
http://www.uic.edu/~shaffer/
Message no. 7
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Damion Milliken)
Subject: Weapon design question.
Date: Tue Jul 10 05:05:01 2001
Iridios writes:

> No problem, I say. Open up to the CC weapon design rules (I know, not the
> best) and I can't find anything even remotely like a design option for
> vehicular weaponry. So I made one up.

I don't really see all that much of a problem just taking a normal LMG and
applying the vehicle conversion kit mods from R3. A manufacturer would
probably want the largest market possible for their weapon, so they would be
unlikely to produce a "vehicle only" model. OTOH, if the weapon was
purchased directly from the manufacturer, then it could probably come with
the vehicle conversion kit mods already made at no additional charge - to
convert it for regular use would probably require the same sort of procedure
as converting a regular weapon for vehicular use.

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong
Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: dam01@***.edu.au
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Message no. 8
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Iridios)
Subject: Weapon design question.
Date: Tue Jul 10 06:35:01 2001
Chris Shaffer wrote:

>
> Ah, I see. Sorry. Though I do have to note that, since the R3 errata
> hasn't been published, you shouldn't assume that everyone is aware of all
> the R3 errata or has the previous sourcebook for reference.

But Jon Szeto did post a link to part of the errata in an earlier post about
R3 questions.

http://forums.dumpshock.com//Forum18/HTML/000024.html#3

It's where I got this particular errata from.

>
> At any rate, given that the mark-up factor for most drones is .25, the cost
> is the same either way. For a few larger drones, it would be more
> expensive to use the R3 firearms conversion kit.

You are right. And when modifying a smaller drone to carry a weapon, an FCK
is the right tool for the job. However, as I said before I needed a weapon
designed to go into a security drone, and it is going to be a large drone.
Also, it makes sense that there are some weapons that were designed and
built for vehicular installation. So there needs to be some way of
accounting for that when designing weapons.


> If the conversion kit is
> reusable, it would be cheaper to go that route. If not, then perhaps your
> method would save a few nuyen. (Is it reusable? Inquiring minds want to
> know.)

I don't think they're easily reusable. At best, based on the errata, a kit
would be transferable within its group (pistols to pistols, LMGs to rifles,
etc.). And I think that, at least in my games, the kit is designed to mate
with the mount it came out of (small remote turret to small remote turret).


--
Iridios

Pendere Et Illegitimi Non Carborundum
Message no. 9
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Iridios)
Subject: Weapon design question.
Date: Tue Jul 10 07:25:01 2001
Damion Milliken wrote:
>
> Iridios writes:
>
> > No problem, I say. Open up to the CC weapon design rules (I know, not the
> > best) and I can't find anything even remotely like a design option for
> > vehicular weaponry. So I made one up.
>
> I don't really see all that much of a problem just taking a normal LMG and
> applying the vehicle conversion kit mods from R3. A manufacturer would
> probably want the largest market possible for their weapon, so they would be
> unlikely to produce a "vehicle only" model. OTOH, if the weapon was
> purchased directly from the manufacturer, then it could probably come with
> the vehicle conversion kit mods already made at no additional charge - to
> convert it for regular use would probably require the same sort of procedure
> as converting a regular weapon for vehicular use.

So you're saying, call it a vehicular weapon and if someone wants to rip it
out and use it they need to buy a conversion kit?

--
Iridios

Pendere Et Illegitimi Non Carborundum
Message no. 10
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Damion Milliken)
Subject: Weapon design question.
Date: Tue Jul 10 11:15:01 2001
Iridios writes:

> So you're saying, call it a vehicular weapon and if someone wants to rip it
> out and use it they need to buy a conversion kit?

Yeah, that's it :-). Seems simpler to me.

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong
Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: dam01@***.edu.au
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V- PS+ PE- Y+ PGP-@>++ t+ 5 X+>+++ R++ !tv(--) b+ DI+++@ D G+
e++>++++$ h- r++>+++ y->+++
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Message no. 11
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: Weapon design question.
Date: Tue Jul 10 15:00:01 2001
On Mon, 09 Jul 2001 21:40:40 -0400 Iridios <iridios@********.net> writes:
> Greetings,
>
> I'm designing a security drone that uses specific designed LMGs as
> it's
> main weaponry. Looking through R2, R3, SR3, and CC, I cannot find
> any LMGs
> designed or designated as primarily vehicular weapons.
> No problem, I say. Open up to the CC weapon design rules (I know,
> not the
> best) and I can't find anything even remotely like a design option
> for
> vehicular weaponry. So I made one up.

I don't really see the point. I can't see why you wouldn't just use a
vehicle conversion kit ... Now, a mod to let a vehicle or human use a
firearm to it's fullest interchangably would be nifty. :)

> Design Option
> Vehicular Mount: Allows the weapon to be mounted in a turret or
> firm/hardpoint without conversion. Available only for "Long" weapons
> such as
> shotguns, rifles, etc.
> This design option also requires the use of the
> under barrel mount.

Why only Long weapons? Why can't I have a vehicular pistol to mount in
small drones? Also, IMO, this shouldn't use a mount. It's like replacing
the gun's frame with a vehicle friendly one. Also, you may want to
require a certain ammo feed, but I wouldn't. :)

> DP:10
> FCU:-1
> Weight: +10% of Frame weight
> Concealability: -1

I would wipe the concealability and FCU modifiers. All the difference
would be, IMO again, inside the vehicle. Also, I might require the
triggerless firing modifier. As for cost and weight, I haven't the
foggiest if they're hunkydory or not. :)

> These numbers are tentative. I was wondering if anyone had any
> critiques,
> suggestions, or alterations.

Uh. Yeah. :)

--
D. Ghost
Profanity is the one language all programmers know best
- Troutman's 6th programming postulate.
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