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Message no. 1
From: Gary Carroll <gary@****.COM>
Subject: Weapon Focus | Armor Focus
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 1995 15:24:57 -0700
Has anyone given thought to creating an
* Armor Focus *

something like a shield.
(lets start small so we're not talking about 1+million nYn)

Just a thought?

There are also talk about shamantic totems giving
astral armor bonuses. (prob. a net book)

Thank
Gary C.
Message no. 2
From: Sebastian Wiers <seb@***.RIPCO.COM>
Subject: Re: Weapon Focus | Armor Focus
Date: Sat, 8 Jul 1995 00:18:45 -0500
>
> Has anyone given thought to creating an
> * Armor Focus *
>
> something like a shield.
> (lets start small so we're not talking about 1+million nYn)
>
Just what would an armor focus benifit? IE, what would it add dice in? In
concept, it does not sound infeasable, but there are many defensive spells
that can serve similar functions, so I'm wondering if you have something
completely new in mind.
Message no. 3
From: "S.F. Eley" <gt6877c@*****.GATECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Weapon Focus | Armor Focus
Date: Sat, 8 Jul 1995 12:35:41 -0400
> Has anyone given thought to creating an
> * Armor Focus *
>
> something like a shield.
> (lets start small so we're not talking about 1+million nYn)

How is this different from, say, dropping an Armor spell over a lock focus
and spell locking it? (Oh, wait, I'll bet you want a focus that's less
vulnerable than a spell lock.. Sorry, I don't believe in invulnerable
mages, they're powerful enough as it is.)

Anyway, my point is that armor effects are already produced by spells.
You don't need to invent a whole new type of focus to make it happen; you
can work within the current rules. Weapon Foci are something special --
there is no "Enchant Weapon" spell, there isn't likely to be one because
it isn't specific enough to funnel into a spell.

Blessings,

_TNX._

--
Stephen F. Eley (-) gt6877c@*****.gatech.edu )-( Student Pagan Community
http://wc62.residence.gatech.edu| "Don't take life too seriously.
My opinions are my opinions. | You will never get out of it
Please don't blame anyone else. | alive." -- (Unknown)
Message no. 4
From: Sebastian Wiers <seb@***.RIPCO.COM>
Subject: Re: Weapon Focus | Armor Focus
Date: Sat, 8 Jul 1995 21:55:31 -0500
>
> > Has anyone given thought to creating an
> > * Armor Focus *
> >
> > something like a shield.
> > (lets start small so we're not talking about 1+million nYn)
>
> How is this different from, say, dropping an Armor spell over a lock focus
> and spell locking it? (Oh, wait, I'll bet you want a focus that's less
> vulnerable than a spell lock.. Sorry, I don't believe in invulnerable
> mages, they're powerful enough as it is.)

For that matter, why do spell locks have to be power level 1? Coulden't you
design one with a higer rating? I don't see any benifit but astral defense,
and it would be harder to mask, but some body must have tried.
Sebastian
Message no. 5
From: "S.F. Eley" <gt6877c@*****.GATECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Weapon Focus | Armor Focus
Date: Sun, 9 Jul 1995 00:59:24 -0400
> For that matter, why do spell locks have to be power level 1? Coulden't you
> design one with a higer rating? I don't see any benifit but astral defense,
> and it would be harder to mask, but some body must have tried.
> Sebastian

My guess: Spell locks are cheap. Magicians want them to STAY cheap, and
don't find it worth the bother to pump their defensive aspects.. If another
magician wants you bad enough to attack a Rating 1 spell lock, chances are
he'll take the nominal extra time and effort to attack a higher one as well.
If it's your lock and your talent, you might as well defend the lock
directly when it's attacked, and make a new one if it gets blown up.
Spending more time and energy on the focus doesn't help once it's fried.

For the same reason, it should be pretty hard to find NPC magicians that
will sell locked spells to shadowrunners. If some schmoe is going to spend
his life walking into magical crossfire, you don't want him carrying around
an astral highway leading straight to your door, unless his credstick is
VERY plump and juicy.. If you really took seriously the idea of Karma,
you just tied your fate to his.


Blessings,

_TNX._

--
Stephen F. Eley (-) gt6877c@*****.gatech.edu )-( Student Pagan Community
http://wc62.residence.gatech.edu|
My opinions are my opinions. | "You sir, are no lady."
Please don't blame anyone else. | - R. Slatkin
Message no. 6
From: cocheese <ZKLJ1@****.EAST-TENN-ST.EDU>
Subject: Re: Weapon Focus | Armor Focus
Date: Sun, 9 Jul 1995 15:07:34 EDT
What about a magical buckler (like D&D, no pun or insult intended)? It could
be used as a weapon (smashing into astral enemies) and can help defend (helping
parry an enemy's weapon focus). The buckler is small enough to use two handed
with a weapon focus but big enough to justify not taking it everywhere you go.

If anything, it's enchanting a small shield which covers your hand and some xtr
a inches around it with a hand grip.

CoCheese
Message no. 7
From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Weapon Focus | Armor Focus
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 14:06:21 +0200
> What about a magical buckler (like D&D, no pun or insult intended)? It could
>be used as a weapon (smashing into astral enemies) and can help defend (helping
> parry an enemy's weapon focus). The buckler is small enough to use two handed
> with a weapon focus but big enough to justify not taking it everywhere you go.

Whats you're saying is that you want a focus that is both a power
focus and a weapon focus. I really dont think that this is a good
idea.

--
GCS d H s+: !g p1 !au a- w+ v-(?) C++++ UA++$S++L++$>++++ L++>+++ E--- N+ h*(+)
W(+)(---) M-- !V(--) -po+(---) Y+ t++ 5++ R+++ tv b++ e+ u++(-) f+ r- n!(-) y?

Moderator of alt.c00ld00z (coolness in general)
Message no. 8
From: Gary Carroll <gary@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Weapon Focus | Armor Focus
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 07:12:27 -0700
>> Gary Writes:
>> Has anyone given thought to creating an
>> * Armor Focus *
>>
>> something like a shield.
>> (lets start small so we're not talking about 1+million nYn)

>Stephen replies:
>How is this different from, say, dropping an Armor spell
>over a lock focus and spell locking it? (Oh, wait,
>I'll bet you want a focus that's less vulnerable than
>a spell lock.. Sorry, I don't believe in invulnerable
>mages, they're powerful enough as it is.)
>
>Anyway, my point is that armor effects are already produced
>by spells. You don't need to invent a whole new type of focus
>to make it happen; you can work within the current rules.
>Weapon Foci are something special -- there is no "Enchant
>Weapon" spell, there isn't likely to be one because it isn't
>specific enough to funnel into a spell.

Well the concept was to give the mage armor in astral space,
unlike the armor spell (which does not give armor in Astral).
Like the weapon allows you to damage a creature in astral, as
would a armor focus allow you protection in astral. (i.e. the
idea was to give protection like shielding) lowering the damage
level of a astral strike (or strike from a dual natured creature
(elementals,spirits,etc...)) the thought also came to mind that
it might lower the target# for combat spells. (i.e. mana dart(6)
cast at char with level 2 armor focus 6 - 2 = 4 target for char
with armor focus is a 4. It sure is alot easier to get 4's than
6's. *the same goes for a force 6 elemental hitting you, lower
the attackers power by 2*

in this case though - since it isn't a full body piece of armor
you might need to make a successful block to get the benefits.

*well let me know what you think - know that you know what I ment*

Thanks
Gary C.
Message no. 9
From: Ian Smith <KildTheCat@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Weapon Focus | Armor Focus
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 10:57:10 -0400
>> What about a magical buckler (like D&D, no pun or insult intended)?

> Whats you're saying is that you want a focus that is both a >power
>focus and a weapon focus. I really dont think that this is a >good
>idea.

Weapon focuses ARE power focuses, no? I mean isn't a weapon focus just a
power focus that ALSO adds its dice to your armed combat rating?
Message no. 10
From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Weapon Focus | Armor Focus
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 17:06:09 +0200
> Well the concept was to give the mage armor in astral space,
> unlike the armor spell (which does not give armor in Astral).

So all you need to do is make a restricted version of
mana-barrier and cast it on a lock/anchoring/quickening.

--
GCS d H s+: !g p1 !au a- w+ v-(?) C++++ UA++$S++L++$>++++ L++>+++ E--- N+ h*(+)
W(+)(---) M-- !V(--) -po+(---) Y+ t++ 5++ R+++ tv b++ e+ u++(-) f+ r- n!(-) y?

Moderator of alt.c00ld00z (coolness in general)
Message no. 11
From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Weapon Focus | Armor Focus
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 17:08:44 +0200
> >> What about a magical buckler (like D&D, no pun or insult intended)?
>
> > Whats you're saying is that you want a focus that is both a >power
> >focus and a weapon focus. I really dont think that this is a >good
> >idea.
>
> Weapon focuses ARE power focuses, no? I mean isn't a weapon focus just a
> power focus that ALSO adds its dice to your armed combat rating?

Not in SRII it isnt. A weapon focus raises your skill, gives you a higher
damage code in the astral and lets you attack targets with immunities.
Whereas a power focus *simply* raises your magic rating and gives you more
pool dice.

--
GCS d H s+: !g p1 !au a- w+ v-(?) C++++ UA++$S++L++$>++++ L++>+++ E--- N+ h*(+)
W(+)(---) M-- !V(--) -po+(---) Y+ t++ 5++ R+++ tv b++ e+ u++(-) f+ r- n!(-) y?

Moderator of alt.c00ld00z (coolness in general)
Message no. 12
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Weapon Focus | Armor Focus
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 01:04:09 +0930
Ian Smith wrote:
>
> >> What about a magical buckler (like D&D, no pun or insult intended)?
>
> > Whats you're saying is that you want a focus that is both a >power
> >focus and a weapon focus. I really dont think that this is a >good
> >idea.
>
> Weapon focuses ARE power focuses, no? I mean isn't a weapon focus just a
> power focus that ALSO adds its dice to your armed combat rating?

That's the way it worked in First Edition. In Second Edition, however, a
weapon focus only adds it's dice to your Combat Pool (I think... it might
be to the skll.) However... there's the wonderful thing known as "stacked
enchantments", which allow one to create a focus that is BOTH a power focus
and a weapon focus.

--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
*** Finger me for my geek code ***
Message no. 13
From: Gary Carroll <gary@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Weapon Focus | Armor Focus
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 08:40:54 -0700
>> Gary wrote:
>> Well the concept was to give the mage armor in astral
>> space, unlike the armor spell (which does not give
>> armor in Astral).
>
>Jani replied:
> So all you need to do is make a restricted version of
>mana-barrier and cast it on a lock/anchoring/quickening.

Sustained/quickened/locked spells do not follow you in
astral space. *the only exception I have seen is the barrier
spell with has a presence in astral, but it does not follow you
astral being - it stays with your meat body.*
* it is even debatable that the barrier spell has any effect
in astral*
So the idea for the armor focus is that the projecting mage can
have some sort of protection.
Message no. 14
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Weapon Focus | Armor Focus
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 01:58:38 +0930
Gary Carroll wrote:
>
> >Jani replied:
> > So all you need to do is make a restricted version of
> >mana-barrier and cast it on a lock/anchoring/quickening.
>
> Sustained/quickened/locked spells do not follow you in
> astral space. *the only exception I have seen is the barrier
> spell with has a presence in astral, but it does not follow you
> astral being - it stays with your meat body.*

So create a form of spell-lock which allows the spell to focus on your
Astral body, instead... :)

> * it is even debatable that the barrier spell has any effect
> in astral*

No it's not... read up on the Barrier rules for Astral space.

--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
*** Finger me for my geek code ***
Message no. 15
From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Weapon Focus | Armor Focus
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 19:12:10 +0200
> >Jani replied:
> > So all you need to do is make a restricted version of
> >mana-barrier and cast it on a lock/anchoring/quickening.
>
> Sustained/quickened/locked spells do not follow you in
> astral space. *the only exception I have seen is the barrier
> spell with has a presence in astral, but it does not follow you
> astral being - it stays with your meat body.*
> * it is even debatable that the barrier spell has any effect
> in astral*
> So the idea for the armor focus is that the projecting mage can
> have some sort of protection.

Oh yeah, forgot about that but it still works as long as you dont
project. You forget that you can "enter the astral" via perception.
As for barriers having a presense in the astral, well they do.
They are used pretty extensively in the CSH.

--
GCS d H s+: !g p1 !au a- w+ v-(?) C++++ UA++$S++L++$>++++ L++>+++ E--- N+ h*(+)
W(+)(---) M-- !V(--) -po+(---) Y+ t++ 5++ R+++ tv b++ e+ u++(-) f+ r- n!(-) y?

Moderator of alt.c00ld00z (coolness in general)
Message no. 16
From: Sebastian Wiers <seb@***.RIPCO.COM>
Subject: Re: Weapon Focus | Armor Focus
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 15:33:38 -0500
>
> > >Jani replied:
> > > So all you need to do is make a restricted version of
> > >mana-barrier and cast it on a lock/anchoring/quickening.

You know, barriers have never been really popular in our campaign. they are
hard to cast and quite draining. Even worse, they are like a wall around you
- whatever form of attack they protect you agianst, you pretty much can't
use, since it blocks outgoing as well as incoming attacks. Is that right?
Message no. 17
From: Sebastian Wiers <seb@***.RIPCO.COM>
Subject: Re: Weapon Focus | Armor Focus
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 15:42:05 -0500
>
> Sustained/quickened/locked spells do not follow you in
> astral space. *the only exception I have seen is the barrier
> spell with has a presence in astral, but it does not follow you
> astral being - it stays with your meat body.*
> * it is even debatable that the barrier spell has any effect
> in astral*
> So the idea for the armor focus is that the projecting mage can
> have some sort of protection.
>
From your original posts, I assume you mean protection in astral combat.
Due to the nature of SR combat, a weapon focus is excelent defense. If you
mant armour that lowers the power of sauccesful incoming attacts, you do need
some kind of barrier, and I don't think that enchanted clothing would be out
of the question. Maybe just a special spell, anchored, would do. Really,
I've seen some GM's make up stranger Magical relics, with no mechanic, just,
ok, you found it, analyzed it, heres what you figure it can do. Many ED
thread items increase spell defense.
Message no. 18
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Weapon Focus | Armor Focus
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 11:40:32 +0200
>Weapon focuses ARE power focuses, no?

No :)

>I mean isn't a weapon focus just a
>power focus that ALSO adds its dice to your armed combat rating?

It weapon focus is a _focus_, a power focus is also a _focus_, but they're
not of the same type. If a weapon focus would also be a power focus, it
would add to your Magic Rating and your Magic Pool as well as to your Armed
Combat skill. Since it doesn't, I don't think we can call a weapon focus a
power focus...


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
WANNEER HOUDT DIE KLOTE HITTE NOU EENS OP?!?!
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B? e+ u+@ h! f--(?) !r(--)(*) n---->!n y? Unofficial Shadowrun Guru :)
Message no. 19
From: Luke Kendall <luke@********.CANON.OZ.AU>
Subject: Re: Weapon Focus | Armor Focus
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 21:01:49 +1000
Gary Carroll <gary@****.com> wrote:

> Has anyone given thought to creating an
> * Armor Focus *
>
> something like a shield.
> (lets start small so we're not talking about 1+million nYn)

and later:

> Well the concept was to give the mage armor in astral space,
> unlike the armor spell (which does not give armor in Astral).

I'm at home, so I can quote you FASA's position in Grimoire I, p66:

`Research to develop magical armor effective in Astral Space is
underway at several universities and corporate R&D centers, but
so far, without success. As of this writing, no spell or focus
can provide armor on the etheric plane.'

FASA want astral space to be a dangerous place to be.
As well, it's sort of meant to be a place where the usual
masks, deceptions, and protections don't work. Where you
rely on you inner self, not on gadgets and stuff.

Why do you want to create magical armour, anyway? Surely
you don't think that mages are too weak, and need boosting
up in power!!?

luke
Message no. 20
From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Weapon Focus | Armor Focus
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 15:24:39 +0200
> > > >Jani replied:
> > > > So all you need to do is make a restricted version of
> > > >mana-barrier and cast it on a lock/anchoring/quickening.
>
> You know, barriers have never been really popular in our campaign. they are
> hard to cast and quite draining. Even worse, they are like a wall around you
> - whatever form of attack they protect you agianst, you pretty much can't
> use, since it blocks outgoing as well as incoming attacks. Is that right?

Definitely not, barriers only block incoming attacks.

--
GCS d H s+: !g p1 !au a- w+ v-(?) C++++ UA++$S++L++$>++++ L++>+++ E--- N+ h*(+)
W(+)(---) M-- !V(--) -po+(---) Y+ t++ 5++ R+++ tv b++ e+ u++(-) f+ r- n!(-) y?

Moderator of alt.c00ld00z (coolness in general)
Message no. 21
From: Gary Carroll <gary@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Weapon Focus | Armor Focus
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 07:50:38 -0700
>Gary Carroll <gary@****.com> wrote:
>> * Armor Focus *
>> something like a shield.
>> (lets start small so we're not talking about 1+million nYn)
>> Well the concept was to give the mage armor in astral space,
>> unlike the armor spell (which does not give armor in Astral).
>
>Luke replies:
>I'm at home, so I can quote you FASA's position in Grimoire I, p66:
>`Research to develop magical armor effective in Astral Space is
> underway at several universities and corporate R&D centers, but
> so far, without success. As of this writing, no spell or focus
> can provide armor on the etheric plane.'

I was aware of that - I was attempting to take one step less
of armor and use say a shield. Something you would have to
use a skill for to block said attacks.

>FASA want astral space to be a dangerous place to be.
>As well, it's sort of meant to be a place where the usual
>masks, deceptions, and protections don't work. Where you
>rely on you inner self, not on gadgets and stuff.
>Why do you want to create magical armour, anyway? Surely
>you don't think that mages are too weak, and need boosting
>up in power!!?

No I want to get general Ideas on astral protection for
Keeping characters from dying everytime they go astral.
*Bug City Campaign*

(let me know your comments)
Thanks
Gary C.
Message no. 22
From: Luke Kendall <luke@********.CANON.OZ.AU>
Subject: Re: Weapon Focus | Armor Focus
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 14:22:27 +1000
Gary Carroll wrote:
>> * Armor Focus *
>> something like a shield.

luke:
>Why do you want to create magical armour, anyway? Surely
>you don't think that mages are too weak, and need boosting
>up in power!!?

> No I want to get general Ideas on astral protection for
> Keeping characters from dying everytime they go astral.
> *Bug City Campaign*

The advantages of outnumbering your foes applies just as well
in astral space as in melee combat on the physical plane. So
never go astral alone - other mages at least, but spirits and
elementals too.

I think astral armour would have upset game balance in the long
run. It's better to come up with an alternative solution.

luke
Message no. 23
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Weapon Focus | Armor Focus
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 21:45:04 +0930
Luke Kendall wrote:
> > No I want to get general Ideas on astral protection for
> > Keeping characters from dying everytime they go astral.
> > *Bug City Campaign*
>
> The advantages of outnumbering your foes applies just as well
> in astral space as in melee combat on the physical plane. So
> never go astral alone - other mages at least, but spirits and
> elementals too.

In BUG CITY?? Yeah right... the more mages (and spirits) you gather, the
more likely the bugs are to wake up. And I can guarentee that there are
more bugs than there are of you...

--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
*** Finger me for my geek code ***

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