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Message no. 1
From: Tania Evans Tania-Ann.Evans@****.uni-regensburg.de
Subject: weapon focus bonus in ordinary physical combat?(SR 2)
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 20:02:45 +0100
Hi all,
this has been a bone of contention between me and the player
concerned for some time now, so I'd like your opinion on this:
player's statement: a weapon focus allows the magician to a) use
sorcery as a substitute skill for armed combat on the physical plane
(i.e. in a non-magical, purely physical attack in a normal combat
situation), and b) adds half its rating to the damage code and skill,
as per rules for astral combat.
I said NO and told him to use the thing as an ordinary weapon
without the bonus and to use armed combat like everybody else or
default - because IMHO otherwise this would favor magician characters
too much, giving them two skills (armed combat and sorcery) for the
cost of one, and because I can't believe astral bonuses apply to the
physical world (or do they??? Matrix bonuses don't - so why should
astral ones??)
Grateful for any help,
TANIA
Message no. 2
From: 00DNA mcmanus@******.albany.edu
Subject: weapon focus bonus in ordinary physical combat?(SR 2)
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 14:12:43 -0400
At 08:02 PM 6/23/99 +0100, TANIA wrote:
>Hi all,
>this has been a bone of contention between me and the player
>concerned for some time now, so I'd like your opinion on this:
>player's statement: a weapon focus allows the magician to a) use
>sorcery as a substitute skill for armed combat on the physical plane
>(i.e. in a non-magical, purely physical attack in a normal combat
>situation), and b) adds half its rating to the damage code and skill,
>as per rules for astral combat.
> I said NO and told him to use the thing as an ordinary weapon
>without the bonus and to use armed combat like everybody else or
>default - because IMHO otherwise this would favor magician characters
>too much, giving them two skills (armed combat and sorcery) for the
>cost of one, and because I can't believe astral bonuses apply to the
>physical world (or do they??? Matrix bonuses don't - so why should
>astral ones??)

I'd have to agree with you. The whole sorcery substitute is only when they
are astral. It has nothing to do with armed combat...its that they know
how to shape magical forces to do damage in the astral plane. I'd even
have to check if they can use Sorcery when wielding a Weapon Focus in the
Astral Plane...(?). I don't have a book with me.

--00DNA
"...user connection terminated."
Message no. 3
From: Barbie LeVile barbie@********.de
Subject: weapon focus bonus in ordinary physical combat?(SR 2)
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 20:58:54 +0200
Tania Evans wrote:
>
> Hi all,
> this has been a bone of contention between me and the player
> concerned for some time now, so I'd like your opinion on this:
> player's statement: a weapon focus allows the magician to a) use
> sorcery as a substitute skill for armed combat on the physical plane
> (i.e. in a non-magical, purely physical attack in a normal combat
> situation), and b) adds half its rating to the damage code and skill,
> as per rules for astral combat.
> I said NO and told him to use the thing as an ordinary weapon
> without the bonus and to use armed combat like everybody else or
> default - because IMHO otherwise this would favor magician characters
> too much, giving them two skills (armed combat and sorcery) for the
> cost of one, and because I can't believe astral bonuses apply to the
> physical world (or do they??? Matrix bonuses don't - so why should
> astral ones??)

You are right Tania

A weapom focus is used with the appropriate armed combat skill, and not with
sorcery, you only use sorcery in the astral plane for UNARMED combat, NOT
for armed combat.
and it does NOT add half its rating to the damage code, after all it addes
its rating to the attackt test.

--
Barbie

barbie@********.de
http://www.amigaworld.com/barbie/index.html

SRGC 0.22: SR1 SR2+++ SR3--- h++++ b++ b--- UB++ IE- RN+ SR_D+++ W++ dk
sh++++
ri++++ sa+++ ad+++ m+++(x+++) gm++ m+++ P+++(P*)
Message no. 4
From: Meowmix chrisjohn@**********.com
Subject: weapon focus bonus in ordinary physical combat?(SR 2)
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 16:10:29 -0400
> player's statement: a weapon focus allows the magician to a) use
> sorcery as a substitute skill for armed combat on the physical plane
> (i.e. in a non-magical, purely physical attack in a normal combat
> situation), and b) adds half its rating to the damage code and skill,
> as per rules for astral combat.
> I said NO
>

Ahm, I'm gonna go with you on this one. I just can't envision someone
with no armed combat skill at all being able to duck, dodge, and fight
with the best of 'em cause he can cast spells.

Armed combat is not just swinging a weapon til someone dies (well, okay,
in AD&D it is) but about dodging, manuevers, and the other little things
that SR details. Thus, the skill is learning all those things, not just learning
how to hit real hard (which I guess the focus would affect).

Meowmix
"When life gives you a blend of chicken, liver, and
spices, make meat flavored kitty treats."
Message no. 5
From: dghost@****.com dghost@****.com
Subject: weapon focus bonus in ordinary physical combat?(SR 2)
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 16:28:55 -0500
On Wed, 23 Jun 1999 14:12:43 -0400 00DNA <mcmanus@******.albany.edu>
writes:
<SNIP>
>I'd have to agree with you. The whole sorcery substitute is only when
they
>are astral. It has nothing to do with armed combat...its that they know
>how to shape magical forces to do damage in the astral plane. I'd even
>have to check if they can use Sorcery when wielding a Weapon Focus in
the
>Astral Plane...(?). I don't have a book with me.

Yes. Tania's players have it backwards. IIRC, the rule warping involved
is that a weapon focus allows you to use your armed combat skill in place
of Sorcery or Willpower as appropriate. (Tania's players might've read
it as allowing you to interchange the skills which is wrong.)

--
D. Ghost
(aka Pixel)
"Vampires have an oral fixation"

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Message no. 6
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: weapon focus bonus in ordinary physical combat?(SR 2)
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 20:04:24 -0700 (PDT)
> Hi all, this has been a bone of contention between me and the player
concerned for some time now, so I'd like your opinion on this: player's
statement: a weapon focus allows the magician to a) use sorcery as a
substitute skill for armed combat on the physical plane (i.e. in a
non-magical, purely physical attack in a normal combat situation), and
b) adds half its rating to the damage code and skill, as per rules for
astral combat.
> I said NO and told him to use the thing as an ordinary weapon
without the bonus and to use armed combat like everybody else or
default - because IMHO otherwise this would favor magician characters
too much, giving them two skills (armed combat and sorcery) for the
cost of one, and because I can't believe astral bonuses apply to the
physical world (or do they??? Matrix bonuses don't - so why should
astral ones??)
> Grateful for any help,
> TANIA

Well, your reading is somewhat extreme, Tania, but I wouldn't be averse
to using it if the player was trying to screw with the system that
badly.

On the physical plane, a weapon focus adds its rating in dice to the
wielder's attack roll (the skill involved - armed combat, edged
weapons, clubs etc. etc. depends on what version of SR you're using).
It does NOT allow the wielder to use the sorcery skill.

On the astral plane, it allows the wielder to do the weapon's NORMAL
damage and to use the appropriate skill (same as above - armed combat
for SR2, edged weapons or clubs or whatever for SR3) in place of
sorcery, as normal astral attacks are made using the sorcery skill. I
think it also adds the focus' rating in dice to the attack as above.

In NO circumstances does the focus enhance the damage of the attack.

IIRC. :)

*"Oh, don't bother me! I'm supposed to be working!"*
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

.sig Sauer
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Message no. 7
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: weapon focus bonus in ordinary physical combat?(SR 2)
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 20:08:24 -0700 (PDT)
<Snippage(TM)>
> You are right Tania
>
> A weapom focus is used with the appropriate armed combat skill, and
not with sorcery, you only use sorcery in the astral plane for UNARMED
combat, NOTfor armed combat.
<Snipples(TM)>
> Barbie

The only thing Barbie forgot to elaborate on is that WITHOUT a weapon
focus, there is NO SUCH THING as armed astral combat. ALL attacks are
made unarmed. A weapon focus is the ONLY weapon that can be used to
make attacks on the astral plane, as it is the ONLY kind of weapon
which has an astral presence.

*"I said, don't fraggin' BOTHER me!!" Doc' grumbles to himself belligerently...*
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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Message no. 8
From: dghost@****.com dghost@****.com
Subject: weapon focus bonus in ordinary physical combat?(SR 2)
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 23:22:24 -0500
On Wed, 23 Jun 1999 20:04:24 -0700 (PDT) Rand
Ratinac?<docwagon101@*****.com> writes:
<SNIP>
>In NO circumstances does the focus enhance the damage of the attack.

Hunh. I did not notice this change in SR3... In SR2, the focus adds its
rating to damage in astral combat (or was it only against spirits?)

--
D. Ghost
(aka Pixel)
"Vampires have an oral fixation"

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Message no. 9
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: weapon focus bonus in ordinary physical combat?(SR 2)
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 12:13:37 +0200
According to Tania Evans, at 20:02 on 23 Jun 99, the word on
the street was...

> this has been a bone of contention between me and the player
> concerned for some time now, so I'd like your opinion on this:
> player's statement: a weapon focus allows the magician to a) use
> sorcery as a substitute skill for armed combat on the physical plane
> (i.e. in a non-magical, purely physical attack in a normal combat
> situation)

No. Only in astral combat do you get the choice between using the
appropriate combat skill and Sorcery.

> and b) adds half its rating to the damage code and skill,
> as per rules for astral combat.

In all editions of SR, a weapon focus adds its Force rating to the number
of skill dice used. Thus, a character with Armed Combat 1 and a weapon
focus (6) rolls 7 dice to attack. However, it does not add to the focus'
damage in any edition. This is in SRII on page 138 and in SR3 on page 191,
in both in the first paragraph under the header Weapon Foci.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Now all of them have gone or changed
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Message no. 10
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: weapon focus bonus in ordinary physical combat?(SR 2)
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 19:57:20 -0700 (PDT)
<Snippola(TM)>
> In all editions of SR, a weapon focus adds its Force rating to the
number of skill dice used. Thus, a character with Armed Combat 1 and a
weapon focus (6) rolls 7 dice to attack.
<Snipples(TM)>
> Gurth@******.nl

Which reminds me of a question I forgot to ask.

What do you do with a mage who DOESN'T have armed combat, but is using
a weapon focus? Give him the target number he'd have if he DID have the
skill, but only let him use the focus dice (no combat pool dice etc.)?
Or make him default and use the appropriate target number modifier and
the focus dice?

The official ruling would probably be to default, but that could
SERIOUSLY disadvantage the mage opposed to not defaulting. Not that
that's really an issue, but still, I'm curious. I dunno about you, but
if I was a mage with a weapons focus 6, no armed combat skill and
strength 1, I'd want to use the weapon WITHOUT defaulting.

Then again, if I had any brains, I'd spend my first spare point of
karma on learning the appropriate armed combat skill at level 1.

*Doc' enchants his monowhip so he'll stop slicing off bits and pieces
of himself when he uses it.*
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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Message no. 11
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: weapon focus bonus in ordinary physical combat?(SR 2)
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 10:34:21 +0200
According to Rand Ratinac, at 19:57 on 24 Jun 99, the word on
the street was...

> What do you do with a mage who DOESN'T have armed combat, but is using
> a weapon focus? Give him the target number he'd have if he DID have the
> skill, but only let him use the focus dice (no combat pool dice etc.)?

The way the text is worded in SRII and SR3, it looks to me like the weapon
focus' dice count as _skill_ dice -- which means that, even if you have no
skill of your own, you still get the focus' Force in dice without
defaulting penalties. That also means you can roll more Combat Pool dice
for the attack.

> Or make him default and use the appropriate target number modifier and
> the focus dice?

You could use the Partial Defaulting rules from the SRII Companion -- i.e.
halve the TN penalty and use the average of the character's skill rating
and the weapon focus' Force.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
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-> ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
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Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 12
From: Ahuizotl cuellare@***.telmex.net.mx
Subject: weapon focus bonus in ordinary physical combat?(SR 2)
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 14:38:09 -0500
Tania Evans escribió:
>
> Hi all,
> this has been a bone of contention between me and the player
....
> Grateful for any help,
> TANIA

IMHO the answer is NO and NO. Is a terrible game breaker.

Ahuizotl

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