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Message no. 1
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Robert Ennew)
Subject: whatever happend to prime runners?
Date: Tue Jul 16 02:20:01 2002
I haven't seen many quotes/shadowtalk coming from legendary runners like
hatchetman, fastjack etc. in sourcebooks lately.Whatever happened to them? I
used to enjoy reading there comments in old sourcebooks such as
shadowtech,street sammie?,cybertechnology. I don't read the novels so are
they all dead or retired, I mean how does the 60's grab them & all the
drek/fallout from year of the comet etc. Is fanpro going to attempt to
continue with these legends like bringing out a revamped runners sourcebook
discussing specific individuals say from prime runners ('cept focus on the
more stylish & cool ones like Teachdair)as well as legends (something they
missed out in prime runners IMHO). It would be amusing to find out If
Teachdair has met his match or is still up to his old tricks.



_________________________________________________________________
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Message no. 2
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: whatever happend to prime runners?
Date: Tue Jul 16 05:40:08 2002
According to Robert Ennew, on Tue, 16 Jul 2002 the word on the street was...

> I haven't seen many quotes/shadowtalk coming from legendary runners like
> hatchetman, fastjack etc. in sourcebooks lately.Whatever happened to
> them? I used to enjoy reading there comments in old sourcebooks such as
> shadowtech,street sammie?,cybertechnology. I don't read the novels so are
> they all dead or retired

This is pretty much up to the authors of the SR books, and FanPro's
editors. That's to say, if you write something you use whatever character
names you want for the comments, and some of them get changed during
editing; so if nobody working on a give book uses the old-timers, then you
won't see them appear in it -- it's as simple as that.

The other part of this is that it's very likely you see a lot less of them
is because pretty much the whole "author pool" has changed between the time
of the books you mention and now. People like Tom Dowd, Paul Hume and Nigel
Findley used to write the books way back when, and so used their own
favorite characters in them (IIRC FastJack was Dowd's PC, for example)
whereas nowadays you get characters from the campaigns of the current
authors. The other names are ones they think are cool, names of people they
know, and so on, but I suppose this is how the "old crew" did it as well.

> I mean how does the 60's grab them & all the
> drek/fallout from year of the comet etc. Is fanpro going to attempt to
> continue with these legends like bringing out a revamped runners
> sourcebook discussing specific individuals say from prime runners

Prime Runners isn't exactly a book that FASA wanted to be reminded of, I
think...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Little ever changes, if anything at all
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++@ UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--) O
V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t@ 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 3
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: Whatever happend to prime runners?
Date: Tue Jul 16 10:40:01 2002
Robert Ennew wrote:

> I haven't seen many quotes/shadowtalk coming from legendary runners like
> hatchetman, fastjack etc. in sourcebooks lately.Whatever happened to them? I
> used to enjoy reading there comments in old sourcebooks such as
> shadowtech,street sammie?,cybertechnology.

As Gurth said, different writers use different vharacters, ofter from their own games.

One good piece of news for you though is that in a slight change of writing direction,
rather than just putting in random character comments, writers have been asked to use more
recurring characters and build them up some.

Well at least that's what I've been told by one of the freelancers.
Message no. 4
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Mike and Jill Johnson)
Subject: whatever happend to prime runners?
Date: Tue Jul 16 14:45:01 2002
At 11:38 AM 7/16/02 +0200, you wrote:

>Prime Runners isn't exactly a book that FASA wanted to be reminded of, I
>think...
>
>--
>Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
> Little ever changes, if anything at all
>-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
>-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-


I'd have to say that if they re-did Prime Runners Fasa couldn't care less
at this point. :>

Pugwhan
Message no. 5
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Justin Bell)
Subject: whatever happend to prime runners?
Date: Tue Jul 16 14:50:01 2002
Mike and Jill Johnson wrote:
> At 11:38 AM 7/16/02 +0200, you wrote:
>
>> Prime Runners isn't exactly a book that FASA wanted to be reminded of, I
>> think...
>>
>> --
>> Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
>> Little ever changes, if anything at all
>> -> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
>> -> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-
>
>
>
> I'd have to say that if they re-did Prime Runners Fasa couldn't care
> less at this point. :>

Oh no, there'd be rolling over in the grave
Message no. 6
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Bull)
Subject: whatever happend to prime runners?
Date: Tue Jul 16 17:40:01 2002
At 12:55 PM 7/16/02 -0600, you wrote:
>At 11:38 AM 7/16/02 +0200, you wrote:
>
>>Prime Runners isn't exactly a book that FASA wanted to be reminded of, I
>>think...
>>
>>--
>>Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
>> Little ever changes, if anything at all
>>-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
>>-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-
>
>
>I'd have to say that if they re-did Prime Runners Fasa couldn't care less
>at this point. :>

Trust me, FanPro doesn;t want to be reminded either :]

Bull
Message no. 7
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Adam Jury)
Subject: whatever happend to prime runners?
Date: Tue Jul 16 18:10:01 2002
At 04:30 PM 7/16/2002, Bull wrote:

>Trust me, FanPro doesn;t want to be reminded either :]

Dude, the teenaged gang member that had a skill of 15 in Chess was COOL! ;-)

[I had to flip through the book yesterday to see if we could steal any art
out of it . . .]

Adam
Official Shadowrun Page: www.shadowrunrpg.com | adam@************.com
Message no. 8
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Valeu John EMFA)
Subject: whatever happend to prime runners?
Date: Tue Jul 16 18:15:01 2002
>>>Prime Runners isn't exactly a book that FASA wanted to be reminded of, I
>>>think...

>>I'd have to say that if they re-did Prime Runners Fasa couldn't care less
>>at this point. :>

>Trust me, FanPro doesn;t want to be reminded either :]

<Phones in reply from an undisclosed location>

What exactly was so bad about a book of NPCs?

A saw a copy once (once) about (god, how old was I...) 5-7 years ago. I
thumbed it, and it didn't seem THAT bad.

<Disconnecting before trace attempt>

EMFN John Valeu
-AKA- TimeKeeper
Message no. 9
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Bull)
Subject: whatever happend to prime runners?
Date: Tue Jul 16 18:25:01 2002
>
><Phones in reply from an undisclosed location>
>
>What exactly was so bad about a book of NPCs?
>
>A saw a copy once (once) about (god, how old was I...) 5-7 years ago. I
>thumbed it, and it didn't seem THAT bad.
>
><Disconnecting before trace attempt>

It wasn;t bad, but... It wasn't that good either. The character write ups
were mostly very lame, IMNSHO, and for Prime Runners, they were pretty
weak. Sure, they had some skillz compared to a total newbie runner, but
Jeez, even in some of my shorter campaigns I've had more powerful or more
capable characters than those...

Overall, the book was pretty much a waste. It may have been more
interesting if the runners listed were full stats/write ups for NPCs from
the Shadowtalk/Fiction instead of new characters, but even then... Most
GMs with half a brain can come up with stats for NPCs.

Bull
Message no. 10
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Paul)
Subject: whatever happend to prime runners?
Date: Tue Jul 16 19:35:02 2002
> Dude, the teenaged gang member that had a skill of 15 in Chess was COOL!
;-)


Hmmm, Would that count as a comp skill for small unit tactics? ;-)

Annachie
Message no. 11
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Bull)
Subject: whatever happend to prime runners?
Date: Tue Jul 16 19:45:01 2002
At 09:33 AM 7/17/02 +1000, you wrote:
> > Dude, the teenaged gang member that had a skill of 15 in Chess was COOL!
>;-)
>
>
>Hmmm, Would that count as a comp skill for small unit tactics? ;-)

No, but it would for Abstract Small Unit Tactics. Unfortunately, that's a
skill of no real practical use, unless you're facing off against Picasso :]

Bull
Message no. 12
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Valeu John EMFA)
Subject: whatever happend to prime runners?
Date: Tue Jul 16 21:15:01 2002
> >
> ><Phones in reply from an undisclosed location>
> >
> >What exactly was so bad about a book of NPCs?
> >
> >A saw a copy once (once) about (god, how old was I...) 5-7 years ago. I
> >thumbed it, and it didn't seem THAT bad.
> >
> ><Disconnecting before trace attempt>
>
> It wasn;t bad, but... It wasn't that good either. The character write
> ups
> were mostly very lame, IMNSHO, and for Prime Runners, they were pretty
> weak. Sure, they had some skillz compared to a total newbie runner, but
> Jeez, even in some of my shorter campaigns I've had more powerful or more
> capable characters than those...
>
> Overall, the book was pretty much a waste. It may have been more
> interesting if the runners listed were full stats/write ups for NPCs from
> the Shadowtalk/Fiction instead of new characters, but even then... Most
> GMs with half a brain can come up with stats for NPCs.
>
[Valeu John EMFA]

Ohhhhh...... yeah, now that you mention it, it's starting to come
back. I never did recognize
any of the names and I figured that a book called "Prime Runners"
would have a brief write of
all the so-called "Legends of the Shadows" along with some stats. I
was wondering why I never
knew who that part time combat bike lineman/part time shadowrunner
was when I picked it up.

Well, now we do hae stats for SOME of the old school. Most of the
Matrix legends are in Target: Matrix.
Hatchetman can be reverse engineered from Man & Machine. But what
about Wedge? And who's the
drek-hot mage of the street? (I was brought up that FJ was THE
decker and Wedge was THE street sammy)

EMFN John Valeu
-AKA- TimeKeeper
Message no. 13
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Damion Milliken)
Subject: whatever happend to prime runners?
Date: Tue Jul 16 22:30:04 2002
Bull writes:

> Overall, the book was pretty much a waste. It may have been more
> interesting if the runners listed were full stats/write ups for NPCs from
> the Shadowtalk/Fiction instead of new characters, but even then... Most
> GMs with half a brain can come up with stats for NPCs.

It would have been better if it had included _more_ plot hooks about the
characters described in the books. As it is, a GM can read Prime Runners and
probably come up with 0-3 runs per character detailed in there, which makes
the book potentially useful for burned out GMs. PoaD, OTOH, had so many plot
hooks that it was great.

Oh, and about FASA/FanPro not liking Prime Runners. Remember, "nobody
expects the Spanish Inqusition". ;-)

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong
Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: dam01@***.edu.au
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Message no. 14
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Mike and Jill Johnson)
Subject: whatever happend to prime runners?
Date: Tue Jul 16 22:35:01 2002
At 05:13 PM 7/16/02 -0800, you wrote:



> Well, now we do hae stats for SOME of the old school. Most of the
>Matrix legends are in Target: Matrix.
> Hatchetman can be reverse engineered from Man & Machine. But what
>about Wedge? And who's the
> drek-hot mage of the street? (I was brought up that FJ was THE
>decker and Wedge was THE street sammy)


I've always figured Sally Tsung and Dr Raven as 2 of the big mages.

Pugwhan
Message no. 15
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Valeu John EMFA)
Subject: whatever happend to prime runners?
Date: Tue Jul 16 23:35:01 2002
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike and Jill Johnson [SMTP:shadowrn@****.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 10:45 PM
> To: shadowrn@*********.com
> Subject: RE: whatever happend to prime runners?
>
> At 05:13 PM 7/16/02 -0800, you wrote:
>
>
>
> > Well, now we do hae stats for SOME of the old school. Most of
> the
> >Matrix legends are in Target: Matrix.
> > Hatchetman can be reverse engineered from Man & Machine. But
> what
> >about Wedge? And who's the
> > drek-hot mage of the street? (I was brought up that FJ was THE
> >decker and Wedge was THE street sammy)
>
>
> I've always figured Sally Tsung and Dr Raven as 2 of the big mages.
>
> Pugwhan
>
Message no. 16
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Valeu John EMFA)
Subject: whatever happend to prime runners?
Date: Tue Jul 16 23:40:01 2002
> > Well, now we do hae stats for SOME of the old school. Most of
> the
> >Matrix legends are in Target: Matrix.
> > Hatchetman can be reverse engineered from Man & Machine. But
> what
> >about Wedge? And who's the
> > drek-hot mage of the street? (I was brought up that FJ was THE
> >decker and Wedge was THE street sammy)
>
>
> I've always figured Sally Tsung and Dr Raven as 2 of the big mages.
>
> Pugwhan
>
[Valeu John EMFA]
(Sorry about that last non-post, sensitive mouse.)

Well, Sally was never really mentioned past 1st ed and Dr. Richard
Raven is only mentioned in the (non-source) books.
When I first started I knew nothing about these people (although I
have since broadened my horizons).

Would it be too much trouble to have an actual Shadow Legends
sourcebook? Wait, we already covered that....
Nevermind.

EMFN John Valeu
-AKA- TimeKeeper
Message no. 17
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Bull)
Subject: whatever happend to prime runners?
Date: Wed Jul 17 02:50:01 2002
At 07:39 PM 7/16/02 -0800, you wrote:

> Would it be too much trouble to have an actual Shadow Legends
>sourcebook? Wait, we already covered that....
> Nevermind.

<laugh>

TBH, Yes it would.

think about this... What is "High Level" for your game? What would you
consider a Prime Runner or even a "Legend"?

I know many, many SR players that 100 Karma is a high level game. I
consider 100 Karma to be where a character starts developing some, and
500-600 is where a character retires (I retired Bull the Ork Decker at a
bit over 600 Karma, and wanted to retire him sooner but the GM had a bunch
of dangling plots to wrap up). There are a few players out there that play
with 1000+ karma characters...

The problem with setting stuff in stone is that everyone has a variable
power level for their game. Legend status is a goal, a bar player can
kinda reach for. Set that bar too high (Say i make Fastjack and give him
2000 Karma), and players will get frustrated and feel perpetually low
level, especially if tehy're in a Lower power game. Set the bar too low
(Fastjack is a 200 karma decker), and mid to high level players start
considering the "power players" to be jokes.

It's much better to give some guidelines for the characters, some
background, but leave the stats and stuff up to the GM, to tailor to his game.

That said, i know I'd love to see some kind of a "Legends" book that at
least talked about a lot of these characters.

Oh, and as a note... Novels are officially considered Canon for Story
purposes, but Non-Canon for rules purposes, at least back during the FASA
reign. Since there are currently no novels, and if tehre are novels they
may be done seperately by WizKids instead of FanPro, I have no idea what
Rob's stance will be on them.

But, considering the number of people who have read the novels and have
favorite characters from them, they would need to be included as much as
some of the "regular" Shadowposters...

Bull
Message no. 18
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: whatever happend to prime runners?
Date: Wed Jul 17 05:50:05 2002
According to Mike and Jill Johnson, on Tue, 16 Jul 2002 the word on the street was...

> >Prime Runners isn't exactly a book that FASA wanted to be reminded of, I
> >think...
>
> I'd have to say that if they re-did Prime Runners Fasa couldn't care less
> at this point. :>

Note I said "wanted," not "wants"... And since pretty much the same
people work on
SR books now as did two years ago, I assume the same feelings about this particular
book prevail.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Little ever changes, if anything at all
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++@ UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--) O
V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t@ 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 19
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: whatever happend to prime runners?
Date: Wed Jul 17 05:50:24 2002
According to Valeu John EMFA, on Wed, 17 Jul 2002 the word on the street was...

> What exactly was so bad about a book of NPCs?
>
> A saw a copy once (once) about (god, how old was I...) 5-7 years ago. I
> thumbed it, and it didn't seem THAT bad.

Like Bull said, it wasn't _really_ bad, but it could have been so much better.
Someone on the list once described the characters as (IIRC) "having been made
with five A priorities." If you look at their attributes and skills, that
seems about right.

I'm sure there are a few cool characters in there (though I'm not sure if Juan
Jesus Diaz is one, Adam :) but there are far too many dull as well as
over-the-top ones to make the book worthwhile, IMHO.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Little ever changes, if anything at all
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++@ UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--) O
V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t@ 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 20
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: whatever happend to prime runners?
Date: Wed Jul 17 05:50:31 2002
According to Paul, on Wed, 17 Jul 2002 the word on the street was...

> > Dude, the teenaged gang member that had a skill of 15 in Chess was
> > COOL!
>
> Hmmm, Would that count as a comp skill for small unit tactics? ;-)

GM: "You're in this dark alley, with two angry-looking gangers in front of
you, and another one off to your left. They're all carrying knives, clubs,
lengths of chain, and so on, and are advancing on you. What do you do?"
PC with Chess skill: "Bill, you go diagonally forward and to the left by
six meters. Mary, jump forward two meters and then one to the right. I'll
stay here and try to avoid anyone trying to close in on me!"

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Little ever changes, if anything at all
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++@ UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--) O
V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t@ 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 21
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: whatever happend to prime runners?
Date: Wed Jul 17 05:50:49 2002
According to Bull, on Wed, 17 Jul 2002 the word on the street was...

> Set that bar too high (Say i make Fastjack and give him
> 2000 Karma), and players will get frustrated and feel perpetually low
> level, especially if tehy're in a Lower power game. Set the bar too low
> (Fastjack is a 200 karma decker), and mid to high level players start
> considering the "power players" to be jokes.

Hey, FastJack only has a Computer skill of 8 and runs with an MPCP-6
deck... (SR1, p. 113)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Little ever changes, if anything at all
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++@ UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--) O
V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t@ 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 22
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Bull)
Subject: whatever happend to prime runners?
Date: Wed Jul 17 06:40:01 2002
At 11:46 AM 7/17/02 +0200, you wrote:
>According to Bull, on Wed, 17 Jul 2002 the word on the street was...
>
> > Set that bar too high (Say i make Fastjack and give him
> > 2000 Karma), and players will get frustrated and feel perpetually low
> > level, especially if tehy're in a Lower power game. Set the bar too low
> > (Fastjack is a 200 karma decker), and mid to high level players start
> > considering the "power players" to be jokes.
>
>Hey, FastJack only has a Computer skill of 8 and runs with an MPCP-6
>deck... (SR1, p. 113)
<laugh>

I'd say he's come a LONG way since then... Assuming "regular" runs and
karma earnage (100 Karma/year seems about right for our games), he's got
another 1200 Karma to play with now :]

<grin>

Bull
Message no. 23
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Paul)
Subject: whatever happend to prime runners?
Date: Wed Jul 17 08:30:01 2002
> > Dude, the teenaged gang member that had a skill of 15 in Chess was
> > COOL!
>
> Hmmm, Would that count as a comp skill for small unit tactics? ;-)

GM: "You're in this dark alley, with two angry-looking gangers in front of
you, and another one off to your left. They're all carrying knives, clubs,
lengths of chain, and so on, and are advancing on you. What do you do?"
PC with Chess skill: "Bill, you go diagonally forward and to the left by
six meters. Mary, jump forward two meters and then one to the right. I'll
stay here and try to avoid anyone trying to close in on me!"

<Snip the fight sceen>
PC with Chess skill: I place my gun to the gangers temple and say Check
Mate :-)
Message no. 24
From: shadowrn@*********.com (ButtonMasher)
Subject: whatever happend to prime runners?
Date: Wed Jul 17 08:30:04 2002
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gurth" <Gurth@******.nl>
To: <shadowrn@*********.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 4:30 AM
Subject: Re: whatever happend to prime runners?


According to Valeu John EMFA, on Wed, 17 Jul 2002 the word on the street
was...

> What exactly was so bad about a book of NPCs?
>
> A saw a copy once (once) about (god, how old was I...) 5-7 years ago. I
> thumbed it, and it didn't seem THAT bad.

Like Bull said, it wasn't _really_ bad, but it could have been so much
better.
Someone on the list once described the characters as (IIRC) "having been
made
with five A priorities." If you look at their attributes and skills, that
seems about right.

So THAT is why the stats didn't seem to jive when we looked over them.

I'm sure there are a few cool characters in there (though I'm not sure if
Juan
Jesus Diaz is one, Adam :) but there are far too many dull as well as
over-the-top ones to make the book worthwhile, IMHO.

I agree totally. The book was a waste of paper, it had no redeeming value in
any game I have run.

Buttons
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Little ever changes, if anything at all
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++@ UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--) O
V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t@ 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 25
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Da Twink Daddy)
Subject: whatever happend to prime runners?
Date: Wed Jul 17 13:45:03 2002
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gurth" <Gurth@******.nl>

> Hey, FastJack only has a Computer skill of 8 and runs with an MPCP-6
> deck... (SR1, p. 113)

In what, 2048? 2050? By now he has a computer skill of 10 (Decking 12) and
runs with a stolen MPCP-14. :)

Da Twink Daddy
datwinkdaddy@*******.com
ICQ# 514984
Message no. 26
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: whatever happend to prime runners?
Date: Wed Jul 17 14:10:05 2002
According to ButtonMasher, on Wed, 17 Jul 2002 the word on the street was...

> > Someone on the list once described the characters as (IIRC) "having been
> > made with five A priorities."
>
> So THAT is why the stats didn't seem to jive when we looked over them.

Well, as there's no NPC creation system, in SR basically any NPC can be
anything you want, and so will hardly ever fit the chargen rules intended
for PCs.

> I agree totally. The book was a waste of paper, it had no redeeming value
> in any game I have run.

Same here; at least Sprawl Sites sees some use when I need maps, and for
players to look at a list of possible contacts when making a character.
Prime Runners just stands on my shelf because it's much easier to come up
with NPCs myself that fit the adventure I want to run, instead of adapting
the adventure to a pre-designed NPC. I really only got the book because it
was one of the few I needed it to complete my collection...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Little ever changes, if anything at all
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++@ UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--) O
V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t@ 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 27
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Damion Milliken)
Subject: whatever happend to prime runners?
Date: Wed Jul 17 20:55:01 2002
Gurth writes:

> Hey, FastJack only has a Computer skill of 8 and runs with an MPCP-6
> deck... (SR1, p. 113)

It was actually possible to (more or less) create stats for such characters
as FastJack, Ghost, Sally Tsung, and a bunch of others. There were enough
stats listed for them in the examples of 1st Edition books (SR1,
Grimythingy, etc), and adding the descriptions of gear from the novels and
stories, you could create the characters. Most of them were rather average,
in my recollection.

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong
Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: dam01@***.edu.au
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Message no. 28
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: whatever happend to prime runners?
Date: Thu Jul 18 06:55:15 2002
According to Damion Milliken, on Thu, 18 Jul 2002 the word on the street was...

> It was actually possible to (more or less) create stats for such
> characters as FastJack, Ghost, Sally Tsung, and a bunch of others. There
> were enough stats listed for them in the examples of 1st Edition books
> (SR1, Grimythingy, etc), and adding the descriptions of gear from the
> novels and stories, you could create the characters. Most of them were
> rather average, in my recollection.

Now you've got me interested in doing that... So I'll now probably spend half
an hour or so leafing through those books to get the relevant stats out */me
dives headlong into an SR1 hardcover...*

Dodger
Electronics: 4
Negotiation: 4
Sperethiel: 2

FastJack
Reaction: 5

Computer: 8
Electronics B/R: 7
Physical Sciences: 6

Deck:
MPCP: 6
Bod: 5
Evasion: 7
Sensor: 5
Hardening: 2
Response Increase: 1
Utilities:
Analyze: 6
Attack: 6

Ghost
Firearms: 7

Sally Tsung
Body: 4

All this is from examples in the SR1 main rulebook; the first-edition Grimoire
and Virtual Realities (1.0) had plenty of people in examples, but nobody
famous enough to list here...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Little ever changes, if anything at all
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++@ UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--) O
V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t@ 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 29
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Justin Bell)
Subject: whatever happend to prime runners?
Date: Thu Jul 18 10:45:01 2002
Gurth wrote:

> Sally Tsung
> Body: 4

but oh what a body...
Message no. 30
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Valeu John EMFA)
Subject: whatever happend to prime runners?
Date: Thu Jul 18 18:50:01 2002
> > It was actually possible to (more or less) create stats for such
> > characters as FastJack, Ghost, Sally Tsung, and a bunch of others. There
> > were enough stats listed for them in the examples of 1st Edition books
> > (SR1, Grimythingy, etc), and adding the descriptions of gear from the
> > novels and stories, you could create the characters. Most of them were
> > rather average, in my recollection.
>
> Now you've got me interested in doing that... So I'll now probably spend
> half
> an hour or so leafing through those books to get the relevant stats out
> */me
> dives headlong into an SR1 hardcover...*
>
> [Valeu John EMFA]
> [Snip the examples]
>
> Actually, Brainscan had the Updated version of Dodger... (surprised no one
> caught that.)
> So if we can look at Dodger's old stat(s) and compare them to his 2061-2
> stats, we could
> make a fairly good guess on everyone else's stats.
>
> EMFN John Valeu
> -AKA- TimeKeeper
Message no. 31
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: whatever happend to prime runners?
Date: Fri Jul 19 05:10:04 2002
According to Valeu John EMFA, on Fri, 19 Jul 2002 the word on the street was...

> Actually, Brainscan had the Updated version of Dodger... (surprised no
> one caught that.)

Now you mention it, yeah, I (and seemingly everyone else) forgot about that.

> So if we can look at Dodger's old stat(s) and compare them to his
> 2061-2 stats

In SR1 he had:
Electronics: 4
Negotiation: 4
Sperethiel: 2

But in Brainscan, this becomes:
Electronics: 5
Negotiation: not at all
Sperethiel: 6

> we could make a fairly good guess on everyone else's stats.

I doubt it... the Brainscan stats, due to the lack of Negotiation skill, point
to a lack of in-depth research on the part of whoever wrote them up ;)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Little ever changes, if anything at all
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++@ UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--) O
V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t@ 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

Further Reading

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