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Message no. 1
From: Aristotle aristotle@********.net
Subject: What is "cyberpunk" to you?
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 07:18:27 -0500
Greetings -n- Salutations,

In preparation for a possible game I started working on a campaign design.
A very god one in my opinion *smirk*. However I realized that in my career
as a GM I have run fantasy, post apocalyptic, gothic punk, and a few other
settings but never cyberpunk.

Now I have read the books and watched the movies and I have some idea of
what I think cyberpunk is, but I thought it might be nice to get the
opinions of others here.

So.. what is cyberpunk for you? What makes Shadowrun, Shadowrun for you?

Signed,
--Aristotle, The Sleeping Op.
Message no. 2
From: Marc Renouf renouf@********.com
Subject: What is "cyberpunk" to you?
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 13:37:13 -0500 (EST)
On Mon, 1 Nov 1999, Aristotle opens the proverbial can-o'-worms by writing:

> So.. what is cyberpunk for you? What makes Shadowrun, Shadowrun
> for you?

For me, cyberpunk is all that is dark and gritty and messed up
about our own world, only magnified, blackwashed, and fermented. It's a
world where the rush of technology has gotten to the point that innovation
becomes further invasive and oppressive. The media is inescapable, the
corporations ply their wares and manipulate the consumer in any way
possible. Information is so freely available that privacy becomes a
desperately sought-after commodity.
They know who you are. They know what you eat. They know what
you buy. They know where you took your last vacation. They know what
color your kitchen is, and they'll offer you a product that will go just
perfectly with your new toaster-oven. Worse yet, they'll sell that
information to anyone who asks, ostensibly to "better serve your consumer
needs." They're like a psychic-friends network gone horribly awry.
It's a world where corporations run everything that's profitable,
leaving rotting hulks of national governments that preserve the bloated
bureaucracy but emasculate the power of the masses. All the frustration,
none of the control. Whom you vote for is pointless, because your quality
of life won't change a whit; the prices of the food you eat is fixed (but
cleverly so as to preserve the veneer of free market competition), the
roads you drive on fall under corporate jurisdiction (Ares Heavy
Construction and Mitsuhama-Komatsu could care less if you hit potholes on
the highways they bought from the government and are charging you a toll
to drive on) and even education has become suspect (who is *really* paying
for little Johnny's textbook sims, and are they conditioning him to be a
future model consumer?).
It's a world where the Awakening of magic and the emergence of
metahumanity have created new levels of racism and classism. It's a
world where the number of people with nothing is immense and the gap
between rich and poor is painfully distinct. The middle class has shrunk
considerably, and people fall into three categories: the rich in upper
management, the drones in production, and those who fall between the
cracks of a society that doesn't give a devil rat's ass about them. It's
a society that is so stratified and obsessed with getting into the "upper
deck" that it drives people to mercilessly exploit everything they might
care about to get ahead. It's a society where faith is lacking, loyalty
is fleeting, honesty is rare, and trust is virtually non-existent. It's a
world where the first question on everyone's mind is, "what does this guy
want from me?"
It's a place where dwindling natural resources have led to
increased, often violent competition. Nations and cultures are
destabilized as a matter of course, because in the turmoil of war and
unrest there's profit to be had. Promises of power and privilege are
whispered into the ears of petty would-be dictators by corporations who
are in it for the almighty nuyen, and will just as soon sell out their
pocket despots as soon as someone more pliant comes along.
It's business as usual. It's working 14-hour days for a shot at
"getting ahead." It's all the convenience of modern household electronics
putting you in instant touch with every type of consumer product
imagineable. Buy! Buy! Buy! Because after all, who you are is
determined by what you have, what car you drive, where you live. But the
things you own end up owning you. It's a place where morals are less
important in the grand scheme of survival.
It's a world where lethal plagues have reduced a population
drastically, but massive forced population displacements have concentrated
people in cities. People are brought closer, yet are forced to build up
walls just retain some shred of sense of self.
It's a place where self image can be bought, sculpted in flesh and
chrome and precision optics. Bodies are made and remade constantly, and
appearance has become substance in and of itself. Body modification and
"performance enhancement" are peddled to a cyber-conscientious populace
conditioned almost from birth with feelings of inadequacy.
It's a society where depression has bred escapism. Any pleasure
can be yours for the right price, and people will go to great lengths to
plug in, turn on, and tune in to somebody else's carefully choreographed
and scripted brainwaves just to let them forget the drudgery of their own
lives. Recreational drug use and simsense addiction are par for the
course, and are socially acceptable forms of "entertainment." You can be
anyone and anything in your head, and motivation in the real world suffers
accordingly.
And then there's you. Where do you fit in? Are you a predator,
or are you just prey that thinks it's being clever? Are you mastering
your own destiny, or are you just another pawn in some shapeless,
formless, ruleless power struggle that you'll never be a player in and
could never fully comprehend? Are you a force for the greater good, or
has your idealism blinded you to what your actions are really
accomplishing. Are you an avenging angel, or have you become death, the
destroyer of worlds? Do you live by a code, or is your code one of
survival above all else? Are you an individual or just another nameless,
faceless number, a cog in the machine devoid of all personality or
independent thought? Do you see the world for what it is, or do you buy
into the whole neon and velvet candy coating provided for the
entertainment of the docile masses?
Are you a hardened urban warrior in the spiritual sense? Are are
you just more meat for the beast?


That's what Shadowrun is to me.

Marc Renouf (ShadowRN GridSec - "Bad Cop" Division)

Other ShadowRN-related addresses and links:
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David Buehrer <graht@********.att.net> GridSec "Nice Guy" Division
ShadowRN FAQ <http://shadowrun.html.com/hlair/faqindex.php3>;
Message no. 3
From: Scott W iscottw@*****.nb.ca
Subject: What is "cyberpunk" to you?
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 15:22:31 -0400
"And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Marc Renouf."

<snip "What Shadowrun/Cyberpunk Is" essay>

] That's what Shadowrun is to me.

Boy, am I glad I didn't reply to this one before you...my answer
would have sounded woefully inadequate. I'm saving this one, Marc,
'cause I'm really quite impressed.

-Boondocker
Message no. 4
From: Sebastian Wiers m0ng005e@*********.com
Subject: What is "cyberpunk" to you?
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 17:24:46 -0600
:"And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Marc Renouf."
:
:<snip "What Shadowrun/Cyberpunk Is" essay>


Another nice post I did not get. What gives? I checked, and I do not have
"If post = well written, then delete without download" filter...

Mongoose
Message no. 5
From: Iridios iridios@*****.com
Subject: What is "cyberpunk" to you?
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 19:35:33 -0500
Mongoose wrote:
>
> :"And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Marc Renouf."
> :
> :<snip "What Shadowrun/Cyberpunk Is" essay>
>
> Another nice post I did not get. What gives? I checked, and I do not have
> "If post = well written, then delete without download" filter...

You are not alone. I even went out and purchased an email address
just to avoid having providers such as geocities from mucking up my
mail delivery. C'est la vie.

--
Iridios
"Accept what you cannot avoid,
Avoid what you cannot accept."
Message no. 6
From: Ray and Tamara macey@****.com.au
Subject: What is "cyberpunk" to you?
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 11:52:28 +1000
----- Original Message -----
From: Sebastian Wiers <m0ng005e@*********.com>
To: <shadowrn@*********.org>
Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 1999 9:24 AM
Subject: Re: What is "cyberpunk" to you?


> :"And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Marc Renouf."
> :
> :<snip "What Shadowrun/Cyberpunk Is" essay>
>
>
> Another nice post I did not get. What gives? I checked, and I do not
have
> "If post = well written, then delete without download" filter...

Same here mongoose. I didn't get it.

And I specifically deleted that filter last week ;)

NightRain.

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Message no. 7
From: Aewyn labsyn@*********.com
Subject: What is "cyberpunk" to you?
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 20:55:05 -0500
>> Another nice post I did not get. What gives? I checked, and I do not
>have
>> "If post = well written, then delete without download" filter...
>
>Same here mongoose. I didn't get it.
>
>And I specifically deleted that filter last week ;)

Didn't get it either and the only filter which I use moves all shadowRN
e-mails to a separate directory. Is it the list getting weird again?

Farewell,
Aewyn.
Message no. 8
From: Starrngr@***.com Starrngr@***.com
Subject: What is "cyberpunk" to you?
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 21:22:51 EST
In a message dated 11/1/1999 5:59:26 PM Pacific Standard Time,
labsyn@*********.com writes:

> Didn't get it either and the only filter which I use moves all shadowRN
> e-mails to a separate directory. Is it the list getting weird again?

Still would be a better word choice, IMO

--
Starrngr -- Ranger HQ
HTTP://home.talkcity.com/TheSanitarium/Da_Muck/

"You wear a Hawaiian shirt and bring your music on a RUN? No wonder they
call you Howling Mad..." -- Rabid the Pysad.
Message no. 9
From: Raije murk@****.org.au
Subject: What is "cyberpunk" to you?
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 14:52:09 +1100
> So.. what is cyberpunk for you?

OPkay, it hasn't been updated properly for a little while now, but here is
the addy for my website aaaaaallll aboot Cyberpunk.
http://gateway.to/cyberpunk/

Personally, I'm one of those sad freaks who have been completely sucked into
it.

_____________________sabrepunk@**********.net_
Raije
sabrepunk@**********.net
UIN-2799894
~Simple Guide to Cyberpunk~
http://gateway.to/cyberpunk/
"Shit Happens, So Carry Toilet Paper"
Message no. 10
From: Mark A Shieh SHODAN+@***.EDU
Subject: What is "cyberpunk" to you?
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 13:39:49 -0500 (EST)
Aristotle <aristotle@********.net> writes:
> Now I have read the books and watched the movies and I have
> some idea of
> what I think cyberpunk is, but I thought it might be nice to get the
> opinions of others here.
>
> So.. what is cyberpunk for you? What makes Shadowrun,
> Shadowrun for you?

I'm glad you make these two separate questions. :) I really
hate it when Shadowrun is confused for cyberpunk.

Sorry about the late contribution, but I had to write a kernel
last night. :/ Marc nails it pretty well in his post, but I'd like
to add a few points to the discussion.

I haven't seen anything I really want to classify as a
cyberpunk (cp) movie. Blade Runner comes the closest, but Hollywood
has a tendency to take the flash in cp and make a fluffy action movie.
My favorite cp feel movie, for reference, is Strange Days.

To answer the question, cp is my favorite literary genre.
Proto-cp sci-fi has been around for quite a while, but Gibson's
Neuromancer is the book that popularized the genre, making it a good
starting point as any. Take the state of the USA in the early 80s,
give or take a few years depending on the novel, and prophesize a dark
near-future world based upon the things threatening our prosperity and
freedom. As a result, cp is a dead genre. You can't write good cp
any more because you're not living in the world that was the roots of
cp. The biggest thing to remember about cp is that it's not the
technology and the fashion that make it what it is, though they do
help identify it. This is why books such as The Difference Engine
still get classified as cp. No cyber, no punk, but the same themes.
Unfortunately, not a particularly great book. Gibson can create
images, but my favorite books are more than that. As a side note, I'm
not exactly what cp means outside of this country, but my suspicion is
that it's derivative (with no bad connotations here), like Shadowrun.

Getting around to the good question... The Shadowrun world is
one of many things that came about from cp. It comes across a natural
evolution of the genre into issues of the 90s, and a broadening of the
genre. In the 90s, the USA doesn't seem quite so threatened, so the
mood has lightened a bit. This is the biggest improvement I've seen.
Marc describes a well-run Shadowrun campaign, and there's an
underlying theme of hope. If you're good enough, if you're lucky
enough, you might get somewhere. This was sorely lacking in a lot of
cp. In cp, the theme comes across more like the following: If you're
really good and really lucky, you'll get to go out in a blaze of
glory instead of fading away. It gets old.

My suggestion is this. If you want to find stuff with a
Shadowrun feel, find someone who wrote cp (or at least read a whole
bunch of it), and find something they wrote in the 90s. The fastest
way to do this is to find a list of Cyberpunk books on the web
(http://gateway.to/cyberpunk had one, I think). Everything written
after about 1990 or so is definitively not cp. It may have heavy cp
elements, but will not feel right to be cp. This is what you're
looking for, for the most part. It's likely to have cp elements with
the right mixture to feel like Shadowrun, because they are drawn from
the same material.
Walter Jon Williams wrote Metropolitan and City on Fire. Neal
Stephenson has not written cp, but Snow Crash and Diamond Age feel
similar to SR. Greg Bear's Slant and Bruce Sterling's Holy Fire are
two books I read at the same time and don't remember which was which,
but both felt similar to SR.

If you want to create something with a Shadowrun feel, you
have a lot of leeway. On the surface, Shadowrun is a ridiculously
cross-genre mess, just like Rifts or GURPS. It can be run however you
want it, and the game world will make it fit somehow. If you want to
run SR the way I feel it should be run, you should run it as a cp game
with touches of your favorite things. I had an interest in the
Triads, and in eastern magic, so they played heavier roles in my
campaign. I wanted a cinematic vs. realistic feel to my combat
without ruining what lethality persists, so I tried to make the combat
more cinematic.
As with all GMing, take what you know. If there's an
interesting subject you know better than the rest of your players, try
to work it in. SR will accomodate it.

Mark

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