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Message no. 1
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Whats the deal with Prime Runners?
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 15:25:15 -0400
At 01:33 PM 9/3/98 -0400, you wrote:

>A few of the NPCs in "Prime Runners" come out of Shadowrun Novels (i.e.
>Martin DeVries),

Such as in Jak Koke's new novel, due out in the next few months or so.
Like I said before, good looking cover. And it should be an interesting read.

>but most of the characters are rather buff statistically

You really thought so? Huh. I thought that most of them were pretty lame.
Some were impressive, but most I thought could be taken down by beginning
PCs. And these were supposed to be Prime Runners, not newbie-fodder.

>used it several times, but find it falls short more often than not.
>Rhonabwy (The Welsch[sp?] Great Western Dragon) is profiled in it, though.

It's Welsh. No "c" please. Or if you were to go native, it'd be Cymraeg
Draig (Welsh Dragon). And yes, to me, especially to me, that is the book's
*only* saving grace and the only reason why I've ever gone back to reading
it after the first time through.

Of course, seeing as how Rhonabwy is the only great dragon to have stats,
I'm sure there are morons out there that have gone out and killed him.
Just like those folks that push Thor over a cliff and take his hammer in
AD$D. Or for those few that have the first version that had the Cthulhu
stuff and probably killed Cthulhu too...

Erik J.


http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/dungeon/480/index.html
The Reality Check for a Fictional World
Message no. 2
From: Shaun Gilroy <shaung@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: Whats the deal with Prime Runners?
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 15:45:32 -0400
At 03:25 PM 9/3/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Such as in Jak Koke's new novel, due out in the next few months or so.
>Like I said before, good looking cover. And it should be an interesting
read.

Looking forward to it, myself.

>>but most of the characters are rather buff statistically
>
>You really thought so? Huh. I thought that most of them were pretty lame.
> Some were impressive, but most I thought could be taken down by beginning
>PCs. And these were supposed to be Prime Runners, not newbie-fodder.

Depends on how you play them, I guess (Trechedaire was a re-occuring
nightmare to the PCs when I used him way-back when). Depends on the PCs
too, I guess.

How 'bout the potential for mis-use by evil (as well as creative) GM?

On second thought that doesn't sound right either. :/

>>used it several times, but find it falls short more often than not.
>>Rhonabwy (The Welsch[sp?] Great Western Dragon) is profiled in it, though.
>
>It's Welsh. No "c" please. Or if you were to go native, it'd be Cymraeg
>Draig (Welsh Dragon).

Wasn't sure, thanks.

>Of course, seeing as how Rhonabwy is the only great dragon to have stats,
>I'm sure there are morons out there that have gone out and killed him.
>Just like those folks that push Thor over a cliff and take his hammer in
>AD$D. Or for those few that have the first version that had the Cthulhu
>stuff and probably killed Cthulhu too...

True. Stats on Greater Dragons are a bad thing.


noysh the spoonë bard [BABY 909]
shaung@**********.net
>jack of all trades, master of none.
Message no. 3
From: Steve Eley <sfeley@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Whats the deal with Prime Runners?
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 16:15:25 -0400
Erik Jameson wrote:
>
> Of course, seeing as how Rhonabwy is the only great dragon to have stats,
> I'm sure there are morons out there that have gone out and killed him.

Not quite the only. Arleesh, the "other" dragon in _Bottled Demon_, is a
Great Dragon, and has numbers in the NPC section.

(I agree with your point fully, though. And I'm sure there's a Shadowrun
campaign somewhere that has Tiamat for just that purpose...) >8->


Have Fun,
- Steve Eley
sfeley@***.net
Message no. 4
From: Steve Eley <sfeley@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Whats the deal with Prime Runners?
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 16:19:05 -0400
Shaun Gilroy wrote:
>
> Depends on how you play them, I guess (Trechedaire was a re-occuring
> nightmare to the PCs when I used him way-back when). Depends on the PCs
> too, I guess.

I gotta admit I did like Teachdaire. >8-> Though if you were to play him
today you'd have to beef up the stats even further... Thanks to
move-by-wire he's no longer *quite* "the fastest thing on two legs." Just
really, really close. (Since he's an adept, maybe give him a special
high-level-Initiate "Increased Reflexes 4." Or extend his hypnosis to
make people *think* he's faster than he really is...)


Have Fun,
- Steve Eley
sfeley@***.net
Message no. 5
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Whats the deal with Prime Runners?
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 17:13:10 -0400
At 04:15 PM 9/3/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Erik Jameson wrote:
>>
>> Of course, seeing as how Rhonabwy is the only great dragon to have stats,
>> I'm sure there are morons out there that have gone out and killed him.
>
>Not quite the only. Arleesh, the "other" dragon in _Bottled Demon_, is a
>Great Dragon, and has numbers in the NPC section.

This isn't the first time I've forgotten Arleesh. Damn. In SR3 I really
liked the updated listing of greats. Cool stuff.

>(I agree with your point fully, though. And I'm sure there's a Shadowrun
>campaign somewhere that has Tiamat for just that purpose...) >8->

Or Demogorgon or Cthulhu...run *right*, it can be a blast. Best SR
campaign I ever played in featured (at the end anyway) Nyarlothotep and a
Cthulhu-construct. GM was smart enough to not allow combat with
Nyarlothotep (no opportunity presented itself) and the construct was only
eliminated via a good roll augmented by a *pile* of Good Karma that was
burned...run wrong and that same game would have been a munchie-fest in
which we would have gone butchering all the Old Gods and such. So Tiamat
might be cool in SR, but if it's there just to be killed, forget it.

Erik J.


http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/dungeon/480/index.html
The Reality Check for a Fictional World
Message no. 6
From: "D. Ghost" <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Whats the deal with Prime Runners?
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 19:05:41 -0500
On Thu, 3 Sep 1998 16:19:05 -0400 Steve Eley <sfeley@***.NET> writes:
>Shaun Gilroy wrote:
>> Depends on how you play them, I guess (Trechedaire was a re-occuring
>> nightmare to the PCs when I used him way-back when). Depends on the
PCs
>> too, I guess.

>I gotta admit I did like Teachdaire. >8-> Though if you were to play
him
>today you'd have to beef up the stats even further... Thanks to
>move-by-wire he's no longer *quite* "the fastest thing on two legs."
Just
>really, really close. (Since he's an adept, maybe give him a special
>high-level-Initiate "Increased Reflexes 4." Or extend his hypnosis to
>make people *think* he's faster than he really is...)
>
>
>Have Fun,
> - Steve Eley
<SNIP Sig>

Or give him high level Improved Physical Attribute (Quickness) to go with
the Increased Reflexes 3 ability ... As far as I can tell, there is no
limit on the level you can buy that power at ... So theoretically, you
could have an elf adept (Teachdare is an elf right? I haven't read
anything with him in it ...) with a Quickness of 7 plus Improved Physical
Attribute (Quickness) +13 (though the char would need a 13 magic
attribute) [Side Note: I picked +13 because the resulting stat would be
more than double the normal racial maximum for an elf and also results in
a nice round total (20)]

D. Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
o/` Trideo killed the Video Star ... o/`

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Message no. 7
From: Randy Nickel <LrdDrgn@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Whats the deal with Prime Runners?
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 21:55:27 EDT
In a message dated 9/3/98 12:27:41 PM Pacific Daylight Time, erikj@****.COM
writes:

> Of course, seeing as how Rhonabwy is the only great dragon to have stats,
> I'm sure there are morons out there that have gone out and killed him.
> Just like those folks that push Thor over a cliff and take his hammer in
> AD$D. Or for those few that have the first version that had the Cthulhu
> stuff and probably killed Cthulhu too...
>

There are a few other Great Dragons that they gave stats too. There is one in
Bottled Demon, Prime Runners, and I think Cyber Pirates. A total of three I
think. Correct me if I am wrong.

And yes, I have had characters attempt to kill them because they had these
books and thought they could do them in.

Had I given them (the Great Dragons in those books) just what was in the books
then they would have been killed, but I believe that if a player can have
anchored spells so to can a Great Dragon. Not to mention
other.....surprises....that the players did not expect. :)

Otter
Message no. 8
From: David Foster <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
Subject: Re: Whats the deal with Prime Runners?
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 08:53:29 -0400
On Thu, 3 Sep 1998, Erik Jameson wrote:

->>(I agree with your point fully, though. And I'm sure there's a Shadowrun
->>campaign somewhere that has Tiamat for just that purpose...) >8->
->
->Or Demogorgon or Cthulhu...run *right*, it can be a blast. Best SR
->campaign I ever played in featured (at the end anyway) Nyarlothotep and a
->Cthulhu-construct. GM was smart enough to not allow combat with
->Nyarlothotep (no opportunity presented itself) and the construct was only
->eliminated via a good roll augmented by a *pile* of Good Karma that was
->burned...run wrong and that same game would have been a munchie-fest in
->which we would have gone butchering all the Old Gods and such. So Tiamat
->might be cool in SR, but if it's there just to be killed, forget it.

Yeah, wonder how patterson would attempt to quantify Tiamat:
What is "Polychromatic hydra-dragon" in Latin?

Fixer --------------} The easy I do before breakfast,
the difficult I do all day long,
the impossible only during the week,
and miracles performed on an as-needed basis....

Now tell me, what was your problem?
Message no. 9
From: Steve Eley <sfeley@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Whats the deal with Prime Runners?
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 10:30:12 -0400
D. Ghost wrote:
> [Re: Teachdaire in Prime Runners]
> Or give him high level Improved Physical Attribute (Quickness) to go with
> the Increased Reflexes 3 ability ... As far as I can tell, there is no
> limit on the level you can buy that power at ... So theoretically, you
> could have an elf adept (Teachdare is an elf right? I haven't read
> anything with him in it ...) with a Quickness of 7 plus Improved Physical
> Attribute (Quickness) +13 (though the char would need a 13 magic
> attribute) [Side Note: I picked +13 because the resulting stat would be
> more than double the normal racial maximum for an elf and also results in
> a nice round total (20)]

IIRC Teachdaire does have ridiculously high Quickness -- not THAT high,
but somewhere in the double digits. He's got a weird cyberware/bioware
mix as well as being an adept; his legs were cybered to run faster too.
Plus his dual smartlinks and custom sniper rifle. All this, AND he's a
Grade 8 Initiate, AND he's got a unique magic item with the power to cloud
men's minds... I'd say he's the exception to the "Prime Runner wimps"
criticism if anyone is. >8->


Have Fun,
- Steve Eley
sfeley@***.net

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