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Message no. 1
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: Whats the deal with these shapeshifters in the SR ruleb
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 10:26:27 +0100
Peter Rogers said on 30 Oct 95...

> I'm thinking, no.
> The A+2 and A+1 indications ARE the enhanced physical attributes. Think about
> it. A juggernaut has a body almost equivolent to those stats, and look at the
> size of that. A human's body weight is approx. 50kg per point of body. That
> would be a damn fat tiger, Gurth.

I don't think those stats are including the enhanced attributes... EA (as
I will abbreviate it :) adds the critter's Essence to its attributes, and
AFAIK the average Essence of a shapeshifter is 8. The nadding +1 or +2
makes not much sense; even if it would, it woul mean a tiger
shapeshifter's natural Body would be 2, while a normal tiger's is 8...

The body weight thing is one thing that FASA keeps fucking up, IMHO. The
50 kg per point of Body is a rule from an older book (can't recall which
one), while Cybertech gives different weights for each race -- still by
saying "X kg per Body point." Body has nothing to do with your weight, if
it would evey street samurai ever written up would weigh around 250 kg at
least (or 120 kg if using Cybertech and he's human). Another example: the
megalodon (PAONA). It's 16 meters long and has a Body of 15. No indication
of its weight, but if that fish would weigh only 750 kg I'd be very
surprised...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Vrolijk lachend naar de kloten gaan
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-

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Message no. 2
From: "St. Jean, Ricky" <stjeanr@*******.CANADOREC.ON.CA>
Subject: Re: Whats the deal with these shapeshifters in the SR ruleb
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 95 16:06:00 PST
I don't think those stats are including the enhanced attributes... EA (as
I will abbreviate it :) adds the critter's Essence to its attributes, and
AFAIK the average Essence of a shapeshifter is 8. (etc snip)

Where does it say that a shapeshifter adds its essence to its stats?. That
is a vampire not a shapeshifter.
Message no. 3
From: DarkAngelI@******.com
Subject: Re: Whats the deal with these shapeshifters in the SR ruleb
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 07:47:41 -0800
"Enhanced Attributes" is where it adds the creature's essence to its
attributes. But as was discussed before, I don't believe that you add a
shapeshifter's essence AFTER the A+2 and A+1 modifiers. I sat down and
calculated it and if what was said earlier is true, a shapeshifter's animal
form would be approx. 22.3 kilos per point of body. That doesn't sound quite
right considering most four legged animals are about 40-70 % more dense than
humans.
Oh, incidentally, I wrote previously that people weighed about 50 kilograms
per body point. It was then said that this was not true. Unfortunately, we
were BOTH right. It states in Grimoire 1 that for a levitate spell, a peron
weighs about 50 kilos per point. I would actually go with the 20 kilos, but
that was where I got it.
Message no. 4
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: Whats the deal with these shapeshifters in the SR ruleb
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 10:53:32 +0100
DarkAngelI@******.com said on 1 Nov 95...

> "Enhanced Attributes" is where it adds the creature's essence to its
> attributes.

Exactly.

> But as was discussed before, I don't believe that you add a
> shapeshifter's essence AFTER the A+2 and A+1 modifiers.

I believe you do...

> I sat down and
> calculated it and if what was said earlier is true, a shapeshifter's animal
> form would be approx. 22.3 kilos per point of body. That doesn't sound quite
> right considering most four legged animals are about 40-70 % more dense than
> humans.

Stop comparing Body to body weight (see below) and maybe you'll see why I
think it _does_ add to the A+2 attributes... A shapeshifter in animal form
appears as a large, well-built member of its species. IMHO this accounts
for the extra Physical Attributes (the +2 or +1). EA is _magic_-based, so
it doesn't need to add anything to body weight even if extra (real) Body
would. The inherent magical nature of a shapeshifter provides it with
much-increased attributes over what is naturally possible...

> Oh, incidentally, I wrote previously that people weighed about 50 kilograms
> per body point. It was then said that this was not true. Unfortunately, we
> were BOTH right. It states in Grimoire 1 that for a levitate spell, a peron
> weighs about 50 kilos per point. I would actually go with the 20 kilos, but
> that was where I got it.

I know it says 50 kg x Body, it's in SR2 not the Grimoire BTW, but it just
makes no sense whatsoever. Instead, if I were you I'd use common sense and
not base body weight on Body -- if you do, you'll find that all fighting
machines weigh WAY too much, and that every couch potato would also have a
Body of 5 or 6...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Vrolijk lachend naar de kloten gaan
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-

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Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X+ R+++>$ tv+(++) b+@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(--) y?
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