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Message no. 1
From: Wavy Davy ctysmd@***.leeds.ac.uk
Subject: Wheels and Nuyen and the T-200
Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 12:02:59 +0100 (BST)
Right - been reading up on Rigger 2 and got some questions for ya all.
Quelle suprise.


1) Do vehicle markup fators apply to purchasing customisations?
I don't think it should cost 10x more to modfy a drone after its been
built. Cant you just build your own from basic components? With an
Electronics and Elect.(B/R) at 6, say, I would have thought so.

2) Somethings, such as ECM/ECCM, seem way over priced, IMHO. How
could a shadowrunning rigger ever hope to afford decent (say
rating 4) sensor/emc/eccm ratings for more than one or two of his
vehicles at 250,000 a pop for ECM and 100,000 for ECCM. Also TAPS
and ClearSight softs are hugley expensive, along with many other
things. In the kind of SR world we play in, A rigger has enough
problems raising monthly maintenance costs. let alone anything
funky. Anyone got any fixes?

3) Even with SR3 halfpower/reduce Damage level rule, vehicles can
be hurt bad with small firarms, and ar basically fish fodder againts
any kind of AV munition. While I rcognise that AV munitions are
there to help fish eat vehicles, even a heavy tank (armour 18, say)
doesnt stand a chance against someone firing an AVM. Any
house rules
out their to adjust this?

4) Anthroforms : ? Great idea, no details. Are they controlled just
walking like normal, and therefore need know special piloting
skill? Shouldn't they be constucted out of cyberware parts and
options, and treated like runners, with a Body Quickness and
strength. Do they get standard vehcle reduction in power and
damage level as Rigger 2p 35 says

"Vehicles with legs use the standard character combat rules
rather than the vehicle combat rules.."

Does this mean just the manoeuvre score is not used, or does it
mean that they ar treated exactly like a PC?

I am determined to create a drone rigger with a few
'terminators' of various models (101, 200 :) that he uses in
different situations, including a lifelike social one. The
guys himself is paraplegic and blind, and so uses drones as his
interface with the world. Any one got/seen anything like that?

I guess a lot of this stuff has been asked before, but I couldn't find
answers on the FAQ's so I thought I'd open them to the collective
wisdom of ShadowRN'ers. Or collective something anyway....:)


--
Wavy Davy (who shares wins)
...We tend to scoff at the beliefs of the ancients. But we can't scoff at them
personally, to their faces, and this is what annoys me.
Message no. 2
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Wheels and Nuyen and the T-200
Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 20:07:09 +0200
According to Wavy Davy, at 12:02 on 20 May 00, the word on the street
was...

> 1) Do vehicle markup fators apply to purchasing customisations?
> I don't think it should cost 10x more to modfy a drone after its been
> built. Cant you just build your own from basic components? With an
> Electronics and Elect.(B/R) at 6, say, I would have thought so.

I don't believe the markup applies to those. Yes, that does make it in
your best interests to leave the Citymaster at the showroom, instead
buying a RoadMaster and sticking a turret onto it yourself...

> 2) Somethings, such as ECM/ECCM, seem way over priced, IMHO. How
> could a shadowrunning rigger ever hope to afford decent (say
> rating 4) sensor/emc/eccm ratings for more than one or two of his
> vehicles at 250,000 a pop for ECM and 100,000 for ECCM. Also TAPS
> and ClearSight softs are hugley expensive, along with many other
> things. In the kind of SR world we play in, A rigger has enough
> problems raising monthly maintenance costs. let alone anything
> funky. Anyone got any fixes?

Sure. Don't buy it :) These kinds of electronics are rather expensive
(ever looked up the price of something like a modern jet fighter or MBT?)
so they should not be something anyone on the street can afford, IMHO.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
when she told me, "mad and meaningless as ever"
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ UL P L+ E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 3
From: Zebulin Magby zebulingod@*****.com
Subject: Wheels and Nuyen and the T-200
Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 10:31:09 -0700 (PDT)
> 2) Somethings, such as ECM/ECCM, seem way over priced, IMHO. How

> could a shadowrunning rigger ever hope to afford decent (say
> rating 4) sensor/emc/eccm ratings for more than one or two of his

> vehicles at 250,000 a pop for ECM and 100,000 for ECCM. Also
TAPS
> and ClearSight softs are hugley expensive, along with many other
> things. In the kind of SR world we play in, A rigger has enough
> problems raising monthly maintenance costs. let alone anything
> funky. Anyone got any fixes?

Well, can I add something here? Those items aren't exactly the type
of thing you can go down to the corner market and pick up, ya know?
They are very special pieces of equipment used mainly by security and
military forces around the world. That's not the kind of equipment
Joe Shadowrunner has access to.

(And, by the way...have the players make a run for something like
ECCM components. Sure, it would be really risky, but then they would
have earned it!)

Zebulin

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Message no. 4
From: Wavy Davy ctysmd@***.leeds.ac.uk
Subject: Wheels and Nuyen and the T-200
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 15:25:17 +0100 (BST)
On Sun, 21 May 2000, Zebulin Magby wrote:

> Well, can I add something here? Those items aren't exactly the type
> of thing you can go down to the corner market and pick up, ya know?
> They are very special pieces of equipment used mainly by security and
> military forces around the world. That's not the kind of equipment
> Joe Shadowrunner has access to.

But whats the point of having all the cool toys and gizmos if they're
above a runner's level? I think runners vehicle's often fall into a
category different to others. They're military in part, but need to
be street legal, at least from the outside, so they will rely more on
speed and gadgetry and stealth in a way military vehicle do not.

Take the 'Milenium Falcon' concept - a stock frieghter no different
from any other of the same model on the outside, but inside, modified
to the hilt with military sensors and advanced hyperdrive and
sub-light engines - Picture the same idea in a Ford Americar, and that
is what I'm after. Boba Fett's Slave I is another good example. He
specifically designed it to look like an easy target, yet the
concealed weaponry was heavy duty and it was anything but an easy
target.

I know we're talking about spaceships, but the concept works in SR, I
think.

Also, military costs, IRL, don't reflect how expensive the components
are, as I understand. I'm sure Patrick or someone with military
background would know more, but as I understand it, militaries are
ripped off. IIRC, a few years a go there was a story about the US
Navy paying $10 for each nut and bolt, on average?

What I think I'm trying to say is that the cost of say, and ECM suite
is not reflective of its cost to manufacture and design as much as the
specialist nature of the market.

Soooo.... If a runner were to build their own gear, they are not
gonna have to pay a ridiculous markup, just the cost of components.
And what do you need to build and ECM system? My rough guess with
only A-level physics to back me up would be:-

- A number of powerful transmitters to interfere with several
fequencies at once. Rating 10 power amps?
- A scanner to analyse the patterns being used. Rating 10 Scanner?
- A decryption device. Rigger decryption module?
- A system to control and modulate the waves to get maximum
interference. Maybe a program run on a dedicated computer?

And you could buld all these components yourself :)

Sure, the rigger would need to link all these together, write a
suitable program (or maybe his decker team mate could help out)
and install in all. I knew that Electronics skill would come in
useful for more than just opening Maglocks :) Maybe it would take
up more room. Maybe less. And I'm not talking about massively high
ratings, like 7 or more just mid one, say 4-6.

I'm not saying runners should start with this kind of gear, but should
be able to achieve it with effort. And whose to say shadow designed
gear wouldn't ever be better tha military gear. I have a PC with
Electronics-6 (Electronic Warfare)-9 (Contol systems)-8 and B/r to
match. Why shouldn't he be able to design and build a decent sensor
system?

Thinking about it, SR lacks any system for folks to design gadgets and
gizmos such as radios, maglocks, passkeys, computers, etc. Anyone got
any kind of system of doing these kind of things, or think of any
rules regarding creative use of Electronics and Computer skills. I've
got a few ideas, and I might try and come up with a system, if anyones
interested (apart from me of course :)


Wavy Davy (who shares wins)
...Children need encouragement. So if a kid gets an answer right, tell him it
was a lucky guess. That way, he develops a good, lucky feeling.
Message no. 5
From: Scot Hayworth scoth@*********.com
Subject: Wheels and Nuyen and the T-200
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 08:56:49 -0600
(snip)
Thinking about it, SR lacks any system for folks to design gadgets and
gizmos such as radios, maglocks, passkeys, computers, etc. Anyone got
any kind of system of doing these kind of things, or think of any
rules regarding creative use of Electronics and Computer skills. I've
got a few ideas, and I might try and come up with a system, if anyones
interested (apart from me of course :)
Wavy Davy (who shares wins)

I agree that SR lacks Published Item/technology Development rules...it would
be nice to see. however, I would suspect that in the year 2060...R & D is
left up to the boys that can afford R & D. B/R skills (if I remember
correctly) do require schematics or blueprints in order to build equipment.
please correct me if I'm wrong.

Scot
Message no. 6
From: Wavy Davy ctysmd@***.leeds.ac.uk
Subject: Wheels and Nuyen and the T-200
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 17:24:45 +0100 (BST)
On Mon, 22 May 2000, Scot Hayworth wrote:

> I agree that SR lacks Published Item/technology Development rules...it would
> be nice to see. however, I would suspect that in the year 2060...R & D is
> left up to the boys that can afford R & D. B/R skills (if I remember
> correctly) do require schematics or blueprints in order to build equipment.
> please correct me if I'm wrong.

As I understand it, they do, but surely you could use Electronics
and/or Electronics Background to draw up the schematics?

--
Wavy Davy (who shares wins)
...I hope they never find out that lightning has a lot of vitamins in it,
because do you hide from it or not?

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