Logs for ShadowRN and Associated Mailing Lists

From:	Lollo <lollo@*******.co.at>
Subject:	Why new weapons ???
Date:	Sun, 26 May 1996 11:22:38 +0200

Message no. 1 I think shadowrun is a quite cool game but why does everybody wants new
weapons ???? Are there some players which play shadowrun only because they
like shooting and fighting ???? I am gamemaster too and my players try to
avoid fighting cause they know it's dangerous.....( there was a run a few
days ago ( I wasn't gamemaster ) with 6 players......only one survived but
he was invisble and wounded but I've to say that the players learned much on
this run although their characters died. )

I understand players who want new cyberware and equipment.....
but WHY new weapons.....there exist so many weapons in Shadowrun
and I think everyone will find a weapons he/she likes.......
It's not the weapon that kills, it's the player that kills......

I hope everybody understands me right.....not the weapons make the game, the
players make the game......

Please.....tell me your opinions too......

[lollo@*******.co.at]

"With torn and bleeding hearts
we smile and mouth with myriad
subtleties"
Paul Lawrence Dumbar,
WE WEAR THE MASK

From:	"Samuel M. Poland" <polan881@******.edu>
Subject:	RE: Why new weapons ???
Date:	Sun, 26 May 1996 03:03:01 -0700

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I agree that the players make the game. Sometimes I come up with a =
storyline I never thought of untill the players (unknowingly) help me =
develop it. I (sometimes) judge the player character on the type of =
weapon that is chosen to suite the archetype. For example if a mage =
wants to carry around a mini-gun, the player doesn't fully understand =
the mentality of a mage. I like to deal with highly specialized =
characters that also realize their limitations in the gaming =
environment.

I am not into killing PC's for amusement. I am a firm believer in =
building up a character for the pride and satisfaction of the player, =
however I don't tolerate stupid mistakes, and or bravado in the place of =
tactics and strategy.

I've been GMing SR for about 4 years however this is my first attempt at =
an
PBeM type game. I have played games that have little in the way of =
rules but offer much in the aspect of improvisational role-playing i.e. =
Star Wars. I don't intend to play out every round of every combat turn =
with the players. I intend to play out a plot or story to develop each =
character according to the player's wishes and motivation. I also love =
to use aspects from the character's background to flesh out a "Run".

To some this sounds either simplistic or difficult. To all of you, I =
will tell you how I come up with 90% of my runs. I read the Seattle (or =
other) sourcebooks. These sourcebooks, to the beginner, appear as =
almost worthless. To the experienced GM they are a valuable resource =
for plot and intrigue in the SR world!

One last word:
Even if you are a high level mage with improved invisibility I will =
still find a way to defeat your best spells to give you a challenge. I =
will still come up with a security system that will give your intellect =
a challenge. I can always come up with something better than you have =
access to. If you doubt this then join the game. If you prove me wrong =
then I will be a better GM for it, but either way my ONLY goal is to =
have FUN!

Sincerely,
***Sparhawk***

----------
From: Lollo[SMTP:lollo@*******.co.at]
Sent: Sunday, May 26, 1996 2:22 AM
To: shadowrn@********.itribe.net
Subject: Why new weapons ???

I think shadowrun is a quite cool game but why does everybody wants new
weapons ???? Are there some players which play shadowrun only because =
they
like shooting and fighting ???? I am gamemaster too and my players try =
to
avoid fighting cause they know it's dangerous.....( there was a run a =
few
days ago ( I wasn't gamemaster ) with 6 players......only one survived =
but
he was invisble and wounded but I've to say that the players learned =
much on
this run although their characters died. )

I understand players who want new cyberware and equipment.....
but WHY new weapons.....there exist so many weapons in Shadowrun
and I think everyone will find a weapons he/she likes.......
It's not the weapon that kills, it's the player that kills......

I hope everybody understands me right.....not the weapons make the game, =
the
players make the game......

Please.....tell me your opinions too......

[lollo@*******.co.at]

"With torn and bleeding hearts
we smile and mouth with myriad
subtleties"
Paul Lawrence Dumbar,
WE WEAR THE MASK

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From:	"Sascha Pabst" <Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.DE>
Subject:	Re: Why new weapons ???
Date:	Sun, 26 May 1996 18:05:19 +0200

Message no. 3 At 11:22 Uhr 26.05.96, Lollo wrote:
>I think shadowrun is a quite cool game but why does everybody wants new
>weapons ???? Are there some players which play shadowrun only because they
>like shooting and fighting ???? I am gamemaster too and my players try to
>avoid fighting cause they know it's dangerous.....
I think most people here on the list avoid combat when possible. But the
idea of new weapons is -as far as my characters are concerned- to
avoid combat. Use big, deadly guns when subtility is not (longer?)
neccessary. Use small, concealable, maybe even plastic weapons when
you don't want to be detected. Use whatever is neccessary.
If you stick to one given weapon, you end up too unflexible.

>I understand players who want new cyberware and equipment.....
>but WHY new weapons.....there exist so many weapons in Shadowrun
>and I think everyone will find a weapons he/she likes.......
>It's not the weapon that kills, it's the player that kills......
But you wont try to nail a nail with a screwdriver, will you?

Sascha

--
+---___---------+----------------------------------------+--------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst |The one who does not|
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de| learn from history |
| \___ __/ | | is bound to live |
|==== \_/ ======| *Wearing hats is just a way of life* | through it again. |
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+

From:	"Andre' Selmer" <031ANDRE@******.wits.ac.za>
Subject:	Re: Why new weapons ???
Date:	Mon, 27 May 1996 10:22:12 GMT + 2:00

Message no. 4 @ I think shadowrun is a quite cool game but why does everybody wants new
@ weapons ????

I can only put this from my persepective (and hence my
characters), disagree with me if you will. In SR there is limited
versitility for the street sam characters. My character in order to
keep the edge and survive does not want to live with outdated
technology. After all, once you loose the edge, your character could
be very easily toasted. In addition, it shows a level of compedence,
if the character has access to the latest, it means that he has the
rescources.

Are there some players which play shadowrun only because they
@ like shooting and fighting ???? I am gamemaster too and my players try to
@ avoid fighting cause they know it's dangerous.....( there was a run a few
@ days ago ( I wasn't gamemaster ) with 6 players......only one survived but
@ he was invisble and wounded but I've to say that the players learned much on
@ this run although their characters died. )

No. Each of us play for a different reason. Some of us play to
leave the mundane world for a time, others to act out a fanatasy that
they cannot in the real world, others as a method of stress relief,
other for the sake of the challenge, ad infinitum. I won't comment on
invisible mages, my character until he lost his 'lucky bandana', had
yet not to spot the invisible mage.

@
@ I hope everybody understands me right.....not the weapons make the game, the
@ players make the game......

I couldn't agree with you more. But weapons are an intergral part
of the system. And in the same way some people sent thousands on a
new PC, only to replace it a few months later with a new one even
though the previous works fine, so some characters constandly strive
to keep the edge by believinng that technlgy gives you the edge.

@ Please.....tell me your opinions too......

I just did in a round about way. ;)
Andre'

-- We exist because you want us to, because you are
|__|__ afraid to fact the facts. We are what you fear
/\ /\ \ in the deep recesses of your soul, yourselves.
|\ /\ /| | It is there in the shadows of your soul and those
|/ \/ \| | of the street that we exist. Through the use of
\/__\/ might, magic, cunning, blood, sweat and tears we
protect you from your fears, from youselves, from
others and keep your utopia, not ours, intact.

From:	"Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject:	Re: Why new weapons ???
Date:	Mon, 27 May 1996 11:14:03 +0100

Message no. 5 Lollo said on 11:22/26 May 96...

> I hope everybody understands me right.....not the weapons make the game, the
> players make the game......

But weapons can make the players' characters, as can anything else the
characters buy. Sure, everybody could go around using an Ares Predator,
but what if your character wants something distinctive? Game stats-wise,
it'll be 90% identical to the Predator, but it will *appear* different
because you want it to be a different weapon.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I only wanted something else to do but hang around...
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Character Mortuary: http://huizen.dds.nl/~mortuary/mortuary.html <-

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From:	Tom Pendergrast <pendergr@***.EDU>
Subject:	Re: Why new weapons ???
Date:	Mon, 27 May 1996 19:47:47 -0700 (PDT)

Message no. 6 > @ I think shadowrun is a quite cool game but why does everybody wants new
> @ weapons ????

They're cool?

> I can only put this from my persepective (and hence my
> characters), disagree with me if you will. In SR there is limited
> versitility for the street sam characters.

Oh drek, not this again! :)

> My character in order to
> keep the edge and survive does not want to live with outdated
> technology. After all, once you lose the edge, your character could
> be very easily toasted. In addition, it shows a level of competence,
> if the character has access to the latest, it means that he has the
> rescources.

A line out of the SRII book comes to mind...
"Firearms are primarily slug throwers. The principle has not changed
much over the years" pg 238

...Anyway, new tech may come out to make existing weapons cooler,
but very rarely does a totally new idea come out. A Savalette Guardian
(my fav HP), with a SL2, and the other gizmos is basically the same thing
as a present day .45 (not speaking from personal experience, just my own
common sense :) the Guardian is so much cooler... people (players) don't
want NEW toys, they want COOLER toys...

> @ Are there some players which play shadowrun only because they
> @ like shooting and fighting ????
<snip>

> No. Each of us play for a different reason. Some of us play to
> leave the mundane world for a time, others to act out a fanatasy that
> they cannot in the real world, others as a method of stress relief,
> other for the sake of the challenge, ad infinitum. I won't comment on
> invisible mages, my character until he lost his 'lucky bandana', had
> yet not to spot the invisible mage.

Actually, there are. When I first started playing SRII two and a
half years ago, my group and I played only for combat. Combat was
great. I loved opening up with my Valiant from my troll... Wired-3, SL
and 'eyes wew king. Since then I have changed greatly. I have gone from
super-combat happy, to heavy powergaming, and finally to 99%
role-playing. This has happened with me whenever I start to play a new
game system. I went through this with AD&D, Battletech, Mechwarrior,
SRII, and Champions... each game I go through different phases. They
aren't so pronounced anymore, as I have matured greatly as a gamer over
the past year and a half... I'm sure everyone does the
powergaming/min-maxing thing at one time or another...

> @
> @ I hope everybody understands me right.....not the weapons make the game, the
> @ players make the game......
>
> I couldn't agree with you more. But weapons are an intergral part
> of the system. And in the same way some people sent thousands on a
> new PC, only to replace it a few months later with a new one even
> though the previous works fine, so some characters constantly strive
> to keep the edge by believing that technology gives you the edge.

What game wouldn't be interesting without weapons? Weapons are
everywhere... not everything has to have to do with weapons, but they are
always there.

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