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Message no. 1
From: satinner@*********.net (satinner@*********.net)
Subject: Why the complaints? (Was - Resolution, I hope)
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 16:26:21 -0500
> Basically if they had just made action figures I might hate them for being
> ugly, but they would still exist in the sixth world to me. But these new
> figures are designed to use a different system and specifically designed
to
> behave differently than the characters of the characters of the Shadowrun
> Universe behave. This is why I dissent from the majority and say I don't
> feel they are really a part of the same Universe, even if I openly accept
> that they are indeed part of the same license.

Ummm ... I don't get this at all.
ANY SR miniatures system MUST differ from the original RPG for the simple
reason that an RPG is different from a Mini's game.
Have you ever seen DMZ?
That was an SR mini's game produced by FASA during SR's heyday, and guess
what?
It used a different system of rules, but was still very much "real" SR
materiel

(It sucked rocks IMO, and is to this day the only SR product I have ever
gotten rid of.)

I also don't see where you're coming from with the comment about the figures
being "specifically designed to behave differently than the characters of
the characters of the Shadowrun Universe behave."
What are you basing this statement on? How precisely do characters from the
SR universe behave? How are these action figures doing anything different?
I'm not agressing or disagreeing - I just can't figure what you're basing
that statement on from the limited info we have about this game.

Ultimately I think that unless Duels sucks as bad as DMZ did, it will
ultimately be good for the game.
Wizkids is making $. MageKnight makes cash, Heroclix makes fat cash!
Hopefully Duels will do just as well and draw a lot of people into the rpg.
After all more RPG players = more rpg books published each year! Woot!

But I still wish they had just done an SRclix game ... ;-)

Steven A. Tinner
satinner@*********.net
"It's later than you think."
Message no. 2
From: mamos@*****.com (Mike Amos)
Subject: Why the complaints? (Was - Resolution, I hope)
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:25:25 -0700
Fair enough

> ANY SR miniatures system MUST differ from the original RPG
> for the simple
> reason that an RPG is different from a Mini's game.

This is correct, more or less, if it is it's own game, which it doesn't have
to be. For me the new D&D Chainmail comes to mind. I could be mistaken but I
believe chainmail has a seperate rule set from D&D. I am a fan of using
minis in a standard game to facilitate a better game.

> Have you ever seen DMZ?

No

(snip)

> I also don't see where you're coming from with the comment
> about the figures
> being "specifically designed to behave differently than the
> characters of
> the characters of the Shadowrun Universe behave."
> What are you basing this statement on? How precisely do
> characters from the
> SR universe behave? How are these action figures doing
> anything different?

They are duelers. I will admit some Shadowrun characters are duelers, but
the majority will never go toe to toe with another character and exchange
shots for no reason. Most players lobby for a more subtle less bullets more
brains style of play. These characters are the exact opposite. To me it is
kinda like playing all the games on nintendo then playing Super Smash
Brothers. This was a game where they took a whole bunch of Nintendo
characters and made them fight. It paid no attention to their own unique
environments, just put them toe to toe with improbable opponents.
These action figures seem to basically ignore the true nature of
roleplaying. It has been pointed out that they do in fact have nothing to do
with role-playing. This to me is an admission that they are in fact
fundamentally different from a Shadowrun character.

> I'm not agressing or disagreeing - I just can't figure what
> you're basing
> that statement on from the limited info we have about this game.

Admitedly I am making s certain number of assumptions, with the data I have
been given. However I believe my assumptions are fairly widly accepted
regarding the nature of the game. If I am wildly incorrect I will look
forward to being corrected after to figures come out.

> Ultimately I think that unless Duels sucks as bad as DMZ did, it will
> ultimately be good for the game.
> Wizkids is making $. MageKnight makes cash, Heroclix makes fat cash!
> Hopefully Duels will do just as well and draw a lot of people
> into the rpg.
> After all more RPG players = more rpg books published each year! Woot!

This appears to be the desire of Whizkids, other players and believe it or
not, even myself. I just have some different feelings on the decision that
was made from most. No big deal. I hope the go great and Shadowrun becomes
huge as a result.

I hope I have clarified my statements for you
Message no. 3
From: Gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: Why the complaints? (Was - Resolution, I hope)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 10:53:37 +0100
According to satinner@*********.net, on Tue, 18 Feb 2003 the word on the street was...

> Have you ever seen DMZ?
> That was an SR mini's game produced by FASA during SR's heyday, and guess
> what?
> It used a different system of rules, but was still very much "real" SR
> materiel
>
> (It sucked rocks IMO, and is to this day the only SR product I have ever
> gotten rid of.)

DMZ was based on the BattleTroops game, and I agree that it could have been
done a lot better. IMO the system works well in BattleTroops, but for SR far too
many things needed to be changed or added to let the game work properly; I
think FASA would have done better to simply start from scratch with it.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
... just someone who looks like me ...
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 4
From: ShadowRN@********.demon.co.uk (Paul J. Adam)
Subject: Why the complaints? (Was - Resolution, I hope)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 23:12:00 +0000
In article <003501c2d794$62e67fc0$0323fea9@******>,
>Have you ever seen DMZ?
>That was an SR mini's game produced by FASA during SR's heyday, and guess
>what?
>It used a different system of rules, but was still very much "real" SR
>materiel
>
>(It sucked rocks IMO, and is to this day the only SR product I have ever
>gotten rid of.)

DMZ didn't last long in our SR group. Just too damn different from the
RPG game.
>

--
Paul J. Adam
Message no. 5
From: justin@******.net (Justin Bell)
Subject: Why the complaints? (Was - Resolution, I hope)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 19:50:49 -0500
At 11:12 PM 2/19/2003 +0000, Paul J. Adam wrote:
>In article <003501c2d794$62e67fc0$0323fea9@******>,
>>Have you ever seen DMZ?
>>That was an SR mini's game produced by FASA during SR's heyday, and guess
>>what?
>>It used a different system of rules, but was still very much "real" SR
>>materiel
>>
>>(It sucked rocks IMO, and is to this day the only SR product I have ever
>>gotten rid of.)
>
>DMZ didn't last long in our SR group. Just too damn different from the RPG
>game.

though the cover image was damn cool.

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