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Message no. 1
From: Chris Power <jcpower@********.IUPUI.EDU>
Subject: With all this new stuff.
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 16:32:30 -0500
As a GM I can't bring myself to say to my fellow players, "You can't use
such and such equipment from such and such book." How can I make some
realistic adventures when my Characters are so close to demi-gods!

Rigger extrodinare,
Hamilton
Message no. 2
From: Cukoo <cukoo@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: With all this new stuff.
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 14:55:23 -0700
>As a GM I can't bring myself to say to my fellow players, "You can't use
>such and such equipment from such and such book." How can I make some
>realistic adventures when my Characters are so close to demi-gods!

Sounds like you should be on ShadowGM, not ShadowRN.
Message no. 3
From: Bryan Linn Schuler <schu1545@****.GMI.EDU>
Subject: Re: With all this new stuff.
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 17:48:23 -0400
>As a GM I can't bring myself to say to my fellow players, "You can't use
>such and such equipment from such and such book." How can I make some
>realistic adventures when my Characters are so close to demi-gods!
>
>Rigger extrodinare,
>Hamilton

Just make the stuff REALLY hard to get.
Message no. 4
From: "S.F. Eley" <gt6877c@*****.GATECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: With all this new stuff.
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 17:56:16 -0400
> As a GM I can't bring myself to say to my fellow players, "You can't use
> such and such equipment from such and such book." How can I make some
> realistic adventures when my Characters are so close to demi-gods!

That's what Street Index and Availability are for. The characters might
be demi-gods, but are their fixers? >8->


Blessings,

_TNX._

--
Stephen F. Eley (-) gt6877c@*****.gatech.edu )-( Invisible Pink Unicorns
http://wc62.residence.gatech.edu|
My opinions are my opinions. | "Engage in random acts of happiness
Please don't blame anyone else. | and senseless beauty."
Message no. 5
From: Mike Loseke <mike@***.SC.COLOSTATE.EDU>
Subject: Re: With all this new stuff.
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 16:01:03 -0600
> As a GM I can't bring myself to say to my fellow players, "You can't use
> such and such equipment from such and such book." How can I make some
> realistic adventures when my Characters are so close to demi-gods!

A trend we fell into a couple years ago, and recently revived, was to impose
two limits during character creation:

1) No tech over 90,000

2) Availability limited to 5 or 6

(3)) You can also limit the books for starting, like no Shadowtech (or bioware)
or Fields of Fire.

Granted, some special circumstances have to be met for riggers and deckers,
but, the overall experience of playing in a low-powered campaign has been
_quite_ enjoyable. There is alot less competition between the cyber-folk as to
who has a better math problem and more time and effort is focused on
role-playing.

These restrictions make it easier to create defeatable bad-guys who can still
have the PCs running around chasing their tales.

I'm playing in two of these right now and have two of the most enjoyable
characters I've ever had. One is a (not so) plain old sammie that I've been
playing for the past 18 months (4 months game time) who has about 240 total
karma and 23 skills! He started with about 8 skills but is an avid learner.
The other character is an elven PhysAd who I just started playing in another
campaign. Both are a blast to play because they have more goals in life than
just reducing essence or buying and modifying vehicles.

--
Mike Loseke * Webmaster & |
System Administrator | Thank you, drive through!
mike@***.sc.colostate.edu | -- Beavis
http://www.sc.colostate.edu |
Message no. 6
From: Gary Carroll <gary@****.COM>
Subject: Re: With all this new stuff.
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 16:29:21 -0700
>As a GM I can't bring myself to say to my fellow players, "You
>can't use such and such equipment from such and such book." How
>can I make some realistic adventures when my Characters are so
>close to demi-gods!
>
>Rigger extrodinare, Hamilton

The easiest way to challenge a party is to make a party.
That's right corp that is going to go up against a set
of runners will have done their homework and found out
as much as they can about their group. So they will
know about almost all of thier Cyber, magic, vehicles,
decks, etc... Now they have the money and they have the
technology to invest into a group of runners/security
guards/ex-LoneStar/etc... and get them some kick but
new technology, or just really good run of the mill stuff
but lots of it. Alot of my gangers have boosted-one/two or
wired-one/two and are usually hooked on Kamakazi (giving them
at least 5+3d6). Corp riggers have butt-kickin vehicles
and even better - butt kickin self-destructs. Little drones
with C-4 will put the scare back in them.
(I understand that you don't usually want to kill them,
but you need to keep them in respect of the power of
mega-corps, dragons, police enforcement, and governments.)
If your players are gods then the real powers are Gods
and normal people are Hero's. The problem is that
making challenging scenerios takes alot of time. And
we all know how long it really takes to make a good
PC let alone a dozen of them.

The biggest problem I find with my games is that the team
works as a team and my NPC and bad-guys don't, that's why
they always rip through my runs so easily. I started making
getting new equipment a little harder then, after my first
2 attacks didn't even penetrate their armor the bad guys
got smart and started taking out their guns. It's hard to
kill something with bare hands. *use your imagination*
start using all those other spells no-one picks.

Good luck
Gary C.
Message no. 7
From: Chris Power <jcpower@********.IUPUI.EDU>
Subject: Re: With all this new stuff.
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 23:31:20 -0500
Yeah, they all pay really big bucks to get one. I'll proably end up not
letting them do that.


On Wed, 20 Sep 1995, S.F. Eley wrote:

> > As a GM I can't bring myself to say to my fellow players, "You can't use
> > such and such equipment from such and such book." How can I make some
> > realistic adventures when my Characters are so close to demi-gods!
>
> That's what Street Index and Availability are for. The characters might
> be demi-gods, but are their fixers? >8->
>
>
> Blessings,
>
> _TNX._
>
> --
> Stephen F. Eley (-) gt6877c@*****.gatech.edu )-( Invisible Pink Unicorns
> http://wc62.residence.gatech.edu|
> My opinions are my opinions. | "Engage in random acts of happiness
> Please don't blame anyone else. | and senseless beauty."
>
Message no. 8
From: Chris Power <jcpower@********.IUPUI.EDU>
Subject: Re: With all this new stuff.
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 23:34:57 -0500
What's the address for that?!?

The ultimate rigger.
Hamilton

On Wed, 20 Sep 1995, Cukoo wrote:

> >As a GM I can't bring myself to say to my fellow players, "You can't use
> >such and such equipment from such and such book." How can I make some
> >realistic adventures when my Characters are so close to demi-gods!
>
> Sounds like you should be on ShadowGM, not ShadowRN.
>
Message no. 9
From: Chris Power <jcpower@********.IUPUI.EDU>
Subject: Re: With all this new stuff.
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 23:40:58 -0500
Thanks for all the responses guys, I'm new around here. You definately
make a long time shadowrunner feel at home.
Is there any on-line games going on, and how do I get to them?

"And then the dust rose from the ground, and you saw nothing but truck..."
Hamilton
Message no. 10
From: Cukoo <cukoo@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: With all this new stuff.
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 21:54:12 -0700
>> Sounds like you should be on ShadowGM, not ShadowRN.

>What's the address for that?!?

I've got the addresses set up on a nickname in my E-mail program, so I don't
know the address any more, but I'm sure you'll be getting a better reply
shortly.
Message no. 11
From: "S.F. Eley" <gt6877c@*****.GATECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: With all this new stuff.
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 00:55:59 -0400
Chris Power writes:

> >> Sounds like you should be on ShadowGM, not ShadowRN.
>
> >What's the address for that?!?

Send mail to majordomo@****.residence.gatech.edu with "subscribe shadowgm"
as the first line of the message body.

I would suggest subscribing to both lists if you have the mailbox space..
ShadowGM is much more limited (and lower traffic) than ShadowRN. Its
major purpose is so that people can post adventure ideas, or talk about
modules, without feeling obligated to put "SPOILER ALERT!" in front of it
to tempt players into reading their own future.


Blessings,

_TNX._

--
Stephen F. Eley (-) gt6877c@*****.gatech.edu )-( Student Pagan Community
http://wc62.residence.gatech.edu| "Man will occasionally stumble over the
My opinions are my opinions. | truth, but most of the time he will pick
Please don't blame anyone else. | himself up and continue on." - Churchill
Message no. 12
From: Andre' Selmer <031SEA@******.WITS.AC.ZA>
Subject: Re: With all this new stuff.
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 08:16:24 +0200
}>As a GM I can't bring myself to say to my fellow players, "You can't use
}>such and such equipment from such and such book." How can I make some
}>realistic adventures when my Characters are so close to demi-gods!
}>
}>Rigger extrodinare,
}>Hamilton
}
}Just make the stuff REALLY hard to get.

It isn't just up the GM to limit the weaponry etc, it is also the
job of the players to limit themselves for the simple reason. While
might makes right, it also make the NPC's tougher.
Andre'

+-----------------------------------------------------------+
|It has been said that the they who stay in the shadows have|
|no soul, no depth, no moral conviction. But how can one |
|say this when, it is they who have lost themselves in the |
|search utopia. We are the realists, we work from the |
|unseen corners of society, we do what no another has the |
|strength to do, with our cybered bodies and magic extreme |
|we prevent the corruption from spreading and destroying |
|your dreams, not through power, but bullets, sweat, tears |
|and blood. All of this we do for your sake, and few nuyen. |
+-----------------------------------------------------------+

-
|_|_
/ \ \ /~\/~~~~
| | | - \_/ + THUMP...Thump..thump = Boom ?
| | |
\___/
Message no. 13
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: With all this new stuff.
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 11:22:35 +0200
>As a GM I can't bring myself to say to my fellow players, "You can't use
>such and such equipment from such and such book." How can I make some
>realistic adventures when my Characters are so close to demi-gods!

By using availability figures. Let them roll for the pieces of equipment
they want to buy, no matter if it has an Avail of 2/5 minutes, let them
roll. The way I play availability is that the _characters_ make an Etiquette
test to see if the item is there, not the fixer, so it depends much more on
the char than on the person they're talking to.
So when they start running out of APDS, they will try to get new and likely
fail against the TN of 14. Oops, wait for 14 days before you can try again...

--
Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
We're definitely not normal --Hillary, in the movie "Fun"
-> Unofficial Shadowrun Guru & NERPS Project Leader <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE Y PGP-
t(+) 5 X R+++>$ tv+(++) b+@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(--) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 14
From: Andre' Selmer <031SEA@******.WITS.AC.ZA>
Subject: Re: With all this new stuff.
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 12:42:45 +0200
}>As a GM I can't bring myself to say to my fellow players, "You can't use
}>such and such equipment from such and such book." How can I make some
}>realistic adventures when my Characters are so close to demi-gods!
}
}By using availability figures. Let them roll for the pieces of equipment
}they want to buy, no matter if it has an Avail of 2/5 minutes, let them
}roll. The way I play availability is that the _characters_ make an Etiquette
}test to see if the item is there, not the fixer, so it depends much more on
}the char than on the person they're talking to.
}So when they start running out of APDS, they will try to get new and likely
}fail against the TN of 14. Oops, wait for 14 days before you can try again...

Our GM plays a low hardware, high magic senario. With the result
that us as players deliberately limit the amount of hardware we
collect so that we can at a later stage get what we really need. ie
the gm (subconsciously) assigns us a quota, we stay below that
(instinctively) so that what we really need we can get.

Andre'

+-----------------------------------------------------------+
|It has been said that the they who stay in the shadows have|
|no soul, no depth, no moral conviction. But how can one |
|say this when, it is they who have lost themselves in the |
|search utopia. We are the realists, we work from the |
|unseen corners of society, we do what no another has the |
|strength to do, with our cybered bodies and magic extreme |
|we prevent the corruption from spreading and destroying |
|your dreams, not through power, but bullets, sweat, tears |
|and blood. All of this we do for your sake, and few nuyen. |
+-----------------------------------------------------------+

-
|_|_
/ \ \ /~\/~~~~
| | | - \_/ + THUMP...Thump..thump = Boom ?
| | |
\___/
Message no. 15
From: Justin Pinnow <jpinnow@***.IM.MED.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: With all this new stuff.
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 08:17:33 -0400
Gurth wrote:

}By using availability figures. Let them roll for the pieces of equipment
}they want to buy, no matter if it has an Avail of 2/5 minutes, let them
}roll. The way I play availability is that the _characters_ make an Etiquette
}test to see if the item is there, not the fixer, so it depends much more on
}the char than on the person they're talking to.
}So when they start running out of APDS, they will try to get new and likely
}fail against the TN of 14. Oops, wait for 14 days before you can try again...


Well, I can't say I agree with you on this one. ;) If you have the characters
make the availability check, why are you making them pay for their contacts?
The whole point of having contacts is knowing people who can get you things
easier than you can get them yourself. If someone is using their own
skills/attributes to see what they can acquire, they aren't gaining anything
from having a fixer! Their charisma does come into effect, however, when it
comes time to negotiate the cost of the stuff with the fixer.... ;)


Justin :)
(jpinnow@*****.edu)
Message no. 16
From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: With all this new stuff.
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 15:27:32 +0200
> }By using availability figures. Let them roll for the pieces of equipment
> }they want to buy, no matter if it has an Avail of 2/5 minutes, let them
> }roll. The way I play availability is that the _characters_ make an Etiquette
> }test to see if the item is there, not the fixer, so it depends much more on
> }the char than on the person they're talking to.
> }So when they start running out of APDS, they will try to get new and likely
> }fail against the TN of 14. Oops, wait for 14 days before you can try again...
>
> Well, I can't say I agree with you on this one. ;) If you have the characters
> make the availability check, why are you making them pay for their contacts?
> The whole point of having contacts is knowing people who can get you things
> easier than you can get them yourself. If someone is using their own
> skills/attributes to see what they can acquire, they aren't gaining anything
> from having a fixer! Their charisma does come into effect, however, when it
> comes time to negotiate the cost of the stuff with the fixer.... ;)

You are right, but I dodnt see your point. No fixer worth his salt will
have an etiquette skill lower than that of the average runners. And that
means that it probably amounts to the same thing whether the runner does
his own rolls or not.

BTW do you guys think that the availability ratings of many items are far
too low? I mean take APCS ammo for example, it has a rating of 14, this
(for a well versesed -etiquette 6- runner that *just has* to get it) is
an achievable TN. Given the fact that a runner waits around for a month
or so between runs given him the chance to try his look a few times,
and even if thats not enough he can wait around for a coupla months more.
He will get the stuff eventually believe me.

Anyway I was thinking of raising the availability of many items,
especially such items as APDS ammo.

--
GCS d s+: p1 a-->? C++++ UA++$S++L+++>++++ L+++ E--- W+ N+ w(--) M-- !V(--)
PS+ PE Y+ PGP-- @*++ 5++ X++ R+++ tv++ b++ G+++ e++ h+(*) r

"In my mind I see the matrix, and in the matrix is held the power. The lock
to the matrix is my will, and in the matrix my will becomes the power."
Message no. 17
From: "Andrew W. Ragland" <RAGLAN45@*****.MMC.EDU>
Subject: Re: With all this new stuff.
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 08:56:30 -0500
>As a GM I can't bring myself to say to my fellow players, "You can't use
>such and such equipment from such and such book." How can I make some
>realistic adventures when my Characters are so close to demi-gods!

When Shadowtech came out, one of my players wanted to get his PhysAd's
sword Dikoted. I made him make a trip to Dusseldorf (the group was in
Munich at the time), and negotiate with the company that had just released
news of the process. He had to pay through the nose for the sword, plus he
had to file field reports every time he used the sword, basically being a
beta tester for the corp. Then there was the train ride....

Never get separated from the group. Never let the GM separate you from the
group. Hee hee.

Andrew W. Ragland |GTW @*+(-) s++/+ a c++(++++)| _ Prayer Division|
Product Support Manager |G+ y* L e* W !N o+ K w++$ M+| /\ /\ Ariadne, |
R & M BioMetrics / BioQuant|O+$ V+ +PS- +PE- Y+ PGP @*+ | |-*-| Strengthen |
raglan45@*****.mmc.edu |5@ X+ R+++>$ h---- b+++ r+++| \/_\/ The Web! |
The Internet is a Process, not a Thing
Message no. 18
From: Mark Steedman <RSMS@******.EEE.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: With all this new stuff.
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 14:52:40 GMT
Justin Pinnow writes

> Gurth wrote:
>
> }By using availability figures. Let them roll for the pieces of equipment
>
> Well, I can't say I agree with you on this one. ;) If you have the characters
> make the availability check, why are you making them pay for their contacts?
> The whole point of having contacts is knowing people who can get you things
> easier than you can get them yourself. If someone is using their own
> skills/attributes to see what they can acquire, they aren't gaining anything
> from having a fixer! Their charisma does come into effect, however, when it
> comes time to negotiate the cost of the stuff with the fixer.... ;)
>
i tend to let folks ring up contacts and then roll the contacts
aquisition skill, fixers are only 4, i have seen pc's with more
street ettiquette than that.
This of course works fine till that promised big restup, party rings
no less than 7 fixers, with twice the base time available, 2 Barret's
and 3 boxes of ammo!!!! [ok so 4*2goes*7 fixers = 56 dice but!!,
lucky so ans so's. Note though they have since fired about 8 rounds
from the things total, 14D apds is nice but a real pain to cart a
many feet long sniper rifle about]
By the FASA rules many runs are impossible to complete, as even if
the PC's have the obligatory ettiquette 6 in everything the cost of
ringing the contacts works out so high you pay your contacts several
times the value of the job.

However don't totally forget the ettiquette, it is nice to remember
ocasionally and see PC's talking to an answerphone cause they rolled
lousy ettiquette and cannot get hold of the contact they want.

>
> Justin :)
>

opinions

Mark
Message no. 19
From: Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: With all this new stuff.
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 13:03:36 -0400
On Thu, 21 Sep 1995, Gurth wrote:

> By using availability figures. Let them roll for the pieces of equipment
> they want to buy, no matter if it has an Avail of 2/5 minutes, let them
> roll. The way I play availability is that the _characters_ make an Etiquette
> test to see if the item is there, not the fixer, so it depends much more on
> the char than on the person they're talking to.

I run this in a similar way. If the group is going through a
well-established fixer, gun-runner, technician, whatever, then it's the
contact that makes the rolls. The other alternative is to find the stuff
yourself. Patronize the local black markets, drop a little cred to
someone who could point you in the right direction, and eventually meet
the right people to sell you the stuff. This requires that the *player*
make the rolls. Both ways have their advantages. If for some reason you
can't or don't want to go through your normal channels, or if what you're
trying to find lies outside your fixer's area of expertise, get it
yourself. You may even make a new contact. The drawback is that it takes
some time.

> So when they start running out of APDS, they will try to get new and likely
> fail against the TN of 14. Oops, wait for 14 days before you can try again...

True enough. Some of the really wizzer tech-toys have
astronomical availabilities. Don't forget them, and especially don't
forget street indices. Once they finally find the stuff, make them pay
through the nose for it.

Marc
Message no. 20
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: With all this new stuff.
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 11:10:52 +0200
>> So when they start running out of APDS, they will try to get new and likely
>> fail against the TN of 14. Oops, wait for 14 days before you can try again...
>
> True enough. Some of the really wizzer tech-toys have
>astronomical availabilities. Don't forget them, and especially don't
>forget street indices. Once they finally find the stuff, make them pay
>through the nose for it.

And don't forget that street index isn't all there is to it. If there is
some or another unrest in the 'plex, it'll be harder for your fixer to
acquire that APDS, so (s)he'll ask more for it... Vary the avail TN, the
time needed, and/or the street index as you see fit (not too much though --
don't drop the time from 6 weeks to 2 hours before rolling :)
I remember when my player's samurai wanted a full-auto shotgun, just after
we'd run Elven Fire (avert your eyes if you haven't played this yet)... and
with that unrest going on and the Metroplex Guard out on the streets, it
cost him about double what he'd have paid two weeks later :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
We're definitely not normal --Hillary, in the movie "Fun"
-> Unofficial Shadowrun Guru & NERPS Project Leader <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE Y PGP-
t(+) 5 X R+++>$ tv+(++) b+@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(--) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 21
From: Paul Jonathan Adam <Paul@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: With all this new stuff.
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 17:30:16 GMT
Jani writes:
> BTW do you guys think that the availability ratings of many items are far
> too low? I mean take APCS ammo for example, it has a rating of 14, this
> (for a well versesed -etiquette 6- runner that *just has* to get it) is
> an achievable TN. Given the fact that a runner waits around for a month
> or so between runs given him the chance to try his look a few times,
> and even if thats not enough he can wait around for a coupla months more.
> He will get the stuff eventually believe me.

An Etiquette of 6 is pretty damned high, remember. This person is connected:
(s)he has contacts, acquaintances, a web of markers and favours.

Let the player have APDS. Not many PCs have it... because it's distinctive.
Not many fixers sell it. In fact, it can lead right back to you.

Play up the disadvantages of it (rounds don't stop, they go through almost
anything... have a few non-combatants in the house across the street badly
hurt by the player's suppressive fire on those Aztechnology bozos. Guess
what? "Psycho Shadowrunner Guns Down Family!" headlines, and lots of people
out to get you.)

> Anyway I was thinking of raising the availability of many items,
> especially such items as APDS ammo.

Oh, no. Let them have it! Give them cases of the stuff! (Making them pay
through the nose, of course). And make sure they either use it with caution,
or pay the penalty. Even in our powergamed/munchkin (choose your term)
campaign, PCs usually only use APDS as "one clip for armoured vehicles" and
the like. We did have a run where two PCs used *only* APDS, but then they were
using assault rifles on enemies in military armour... it was APDS or AVMs...

--
"When you have shot and killed a man, you have defined your attitude towards
him. You have offered a definite answer to a definite problem. For better
or for worse, you have acted decisively.
In fact, the next move is up to him." <R.A. Lafferty>

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
Message no. 22
From: "Gary L. Kelley" <gkelley@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: With all this new stuff.
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 22:41:21 -0500
>>As a GM I can't bring myself to say to my fellow players, "You can't use
>>such and such equipment from such and such book." How can I make some
>>realistic adventures when my Characters are so close to demi-gods!
>>
>>Rigger extrodinare,
>>Hamilton
>
>Just make the stuff REALLY hard to get.
>
Thats good advice but if they already have it it doesnt work to well. Iv
found one thing that works well in this situation is to seperate the runners
from all there neat and expensive equipment. One way to do this is have a
corp strike team capture them for questioning. So corp that theyve screwed
over a couple of times maybe. Then have them escape the holding cell
w/nothing but there brains and body. If you really want to be nasty have the
corp docs remove some of there cyber ware(they can dothat right?);). Any way
this leads to the use of brains more than on there gear. Any way its worked
a time or to for me.

K.R.K.
(Saba Yu)
Message no. 23
From: "S.F. Eley" <gt6877c@*****.GATECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: With all this new stuff.
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 23:51:38 -0400
K.R.K. writes:

> Thats good advice but if they already have it it doesnt work to well. Iv
> found one thing that works well in this situation is to seperate the runners
> from all there neat and expensive equipment. One way to do this is have a
> corp strike team capture them for questioning. So corp that theyve screwed
> over a couple of times maybe. Then have them escape the holding cell
> w/nothing but there brains and body. If you really want to be nasty have the
> corp docs remove some of there cyber ware(they can dothat right?);). Any way
> this leads to the use of brains more than on there gear. Any way its worked
> a time or to for me.

So the objective is to get the runners away from their Big Fragging Guns?
That's easy! Just make it necessary for them to spend a lot of time in
clubs. Or in the airport. Or across borders. If you page through any of
the FASA adventures, it seems sometimes like the runners' guns are being
taken away from them more often than they get to keep them.. Which makes
sense, IMO. There are very few places you need to be where they will NOT
mind your heavy machine gun.


Blessings,

_TNX._

--
Stephen F. Eley (-) gt6877c@*****.gatech.edu )-( Student Pagan Community
http://wc62.residence.gatech.edu| "Theory and practice are the same in
My opinions are my opinions. | theory, but different in practice."
Please don't blame anyone else. | - Jim Greenlee
Message no. 24
From: "Gary L. Kelley" <gkelley@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: With all this new stuff.
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 01:41:45 -0500
>So the objective is to get the runners away from their Big Fragging Guns?
>That's easy! Just make it necessary for them to spend a lot of time in
>clubs. Or in the airport. Or across borders. If you page through any of
>the FASA adventures, it seems sometimes like the runners' guns are being
>taken away from them more often than they get to keep them.. Which makes
>sense, IMO. There are very few places you need to be where they will NOT
>mind your heavy machine gun.
>
>
>Blessings,
>
>_TNX._
>
>--
>Stephen F. Eley (-) gt6877c@*****.gatech.edu )-( Student Pagan Community
> http://wc62.residence.gatech.edu| "Theory and practice are the same in
> My opinions are my opinions. | theory, but different in practice."
> Please don't blame anyone else. | - Jim Greenlee
>
>
Basically yeah just do whatever it takes to make them role-play(thats what
the game is after all;^) and not just go out wacking people. More fun, less
enemies, ect...
KRK
Message no. 25
From: Cukoo <cukoo@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: With all this new stuff.
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 10:43:11 -0700
>If you really want to be nasty have the
>corp docs remove some of there cyber ware(they can dothat right?);).

>K.R.K.
>(Saba Yu)
>
A CRC (Cybersystem Restraint Cuff) would probably be sufficient without
removing it, jeez. Anyway, I think you can find the rules for them in the
NAGRL and Harlequin. They're often used by airlines to disable offensive
cyberware during flights.
Message no. 26
From: Paul Jonathan Adam <Paul@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: With all this new stuff.
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 08:42:44 GMT
In message <199509230351.XAA12358@*****.gatech.edu> SHADOWRN@*****.nic.surfnet.nl
writes:
> So the objective is to get the runners away from their Big Fragging Guns?
> That's easy! Just make it necessary for them to spend a lot of time in
> clubs. Or in the airport. Or across borders. If you page through any of
> the FASA adventures, it seems sometimes like the runners' guns are being
> taken away from them more often than they get to keep them.. Which makes
> sense, IMO. There are very few places you need to be where they will NOT
> mind your heavy machine gun.

One interesting trend in our game is that our powergamed (!) characters
tend to have Reactions of around 10+4d6 to 15+3d6, but very high Firearms
and armed or unarmed skill (typically 9-10).

Partly this is because we (house rule) fix a Combat Turn at 3 seconds,
therefore each combat phase is 0.1 second, so the maximum initiative
possible is 30. Partly it's because you can take pistols into places
that will remove anything heavier... so you need to be *good* with
those pistols.

It does mean that they tend to be absolute death when they get to use
LMGs, assault rifles and so on. Which, of course, they almost never do:
a mercenary mission into Aztlan ('Moon Shadows' from Adventures Unlimited)
was the last time they had a free choice of weapons...

Besides... watch a John Woo movie. Isn't it just so much more *fun* to take
on twenty SMG-toting psychos armed only with an Ares Predator in each hand?
:)

Also, strength augmentation (cyber, bio or magical) plus thrown weapons
are nice. Especially if you use nonmetallic shuriken. They need skill and
smarts to use well, but they make a great (and almost undetectable) ace
in the hole.

--
"When you have shot and killed a man, you have defined your attitude towards
him. You have offered a definite answer to a definite problem. For better
or for worse, you have acted decisively.
In fact, the next move is up to him." <R.A. Lafferty>

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
Message no. 27
From: Sascha Pabst <Sascha.Pabst@****.INFORMATIK.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>
Subject: Re: With all this new stuff.
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 19:20:05 +0100
TNX wrote:
> [snip] There are very few places you need to be where they will NOT
> mind your heavy machine gun.
Hm... there is a difference between "mind someone having a HMG" and "take
the HMG from suspicious looking person"...
Sascha
Message no. 28
From: Paul Jonathan Adam <Paul@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: With all this new stuff.
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 00:52:01 GMT
In message <m0sxebu-000DIyC@******.Informatik.Uni-Oldenburg.DE>
SHADOWRN@*****.nic.surfnet.nl writes:
> TNX wrote:
> > [snip] There are very few places you need to be where they will NOT
> > mind your heavy machine gun.
> Hm... there is a difference between "mind someone having a HMG" and
"take
> the HMG from suspicious looking person"...
> Sascha

Yeah, but who's going to serve you? How do you "act inconspicuous"? And
what happens when someone comes looking for you? "That guy? Nah, I don't
remember anyone looking like that, we get guys in full military gear with
gyromount HMGs coming in for burgers every day..."

--
"When you have shot and killed a man, you have defined your attitude towards
him. You have offered a definite answer to a definite problem. For better
or for worse, you have acted decisively.
In fact, the next move is up to him." <R.A. Lafferty>

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk

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