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Message no. 1
From: Pete Sims <petesims@********.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Women In Shadowrun re: was Mistaken Underpants
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 01:36:40 +0100
In article <Pine.OSF.3.93.961007090943.29562D-
100000@*******.qut.edu.au>, RAY MACEY <r.macey@*******.qut.edu.au>
writes
[snip]
>I found the same thing with my wife. I eventually talked her into
>playing, and she has now played SR and Earthdawn. She much prefers
>Shadowrun because it's more realsitic than EarthDawn, and allows her to
>fully develop her character with flaws and all.
>
Don't tell me about character flaws, I think nearly every one of my
wifes characters has had some personal flaw and she's usually played it
to the hilt.

Her first one was psychotic (a sociopath probably describes it best)
Her next one was gang related and she had three "troll sized humans" as
brothers, whom she mothered terribly, and all sorts of problems
developed from that, but the character was a compulsive collector, of
guns and motorcycles.
Her third character (the present one) is an elven nutter with a taste
for outragous clothing and hair styles, with metallic shade make up to
match. (What an eyesore) :) :( A constant traffic light to the rest of
the world :)

The characters and RP style have all improved as the game has developed
and she has progressed in her RP abilities, it's quite amusing watching
them develop, but boy do they cause the other players some headaches
(she's also a terminal practical joker, and is always pulling some prank
on the other characters) :)

>I think this may be related to my earlier post on female munchkins. I
>have never found one. Maybe it's because (sorry if I am generalising, I
>don't mean offense to anyone), in general, women are talked into RP'ing
>and don't start from the beginning with D&D and the like. I found (in my
>wife especially) that the reason she loves Role Playing as much as she now
>does, is simply because it allows her to make a real character. She can
>play someone with a personality.

My wife says that the reason she enjoys RP and Shadowrun so much is not
so much the chance to play a personality, although that counts, but it's
the total escapism offered from boring old mundane life. It's one of
the few times when she can let her hair down and "get nuts". I think
her next character is going to based on either Darkwing Duck (let's get
dangerous) or the Fantastic Four (It's clobberin' time).

It does seem that RP is primarily a male oriented thing, but I have
noticed in my travels around the net, that more females are becoming
involved in it, in fact I believe one posts to this group (Lady Jesty?).

Whether this "male thing" is because of the general image given to SciFi
and Fantasy or whether they just follow the "it's childish" view I can't
really say, nearly every female I've known where I live, thoroughly
enjoys playing RPG's and is usually very reluctant to stop playing,
complaining that real life interferes and should be cancelled :)

Maybe I'm just lucky that I live in a part of England that has the
highest unemployment in the UK, and the highest proportion of "nowhere
interesting to go" places. The women here are very receptive to Role
Playing, and usually leap into it enthusiastically.

Just my thoughts.
Pete

--
Pete Sims
Heroes or Fools? That's a determination others will make in hindsight. But by
being here now, we make that determination for ourselves, and it's neither.
Lt.Col.T.C.McQueen
Message no. 2
From: The Jestyr <s421539@*******.gu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Women In Shadowrun re: was Mistaken Underpants
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 10:42:53 +1000 (EST)
> >have never found one. Maybe it's because (sorry if I am generalising, I
> >don't mean offense to anyone), in general, women are talked into RP'ing
> >and don't start from the beginning with D&D and the like.

I did, I did! :) Mind you, I've always had more male friends than female
friends, I love sci-fi and fantasy, anime and many other traditionally
"male" hobbies.

> It does seem that RP is primarily a male oriented thing, but I have
> noticed in my travels around the net, that more females are becoming
> involved in it, in fact I believe one posts to this group (Lady Jestyr?).

Me! Me! Me! :)

I'm a keen gamer (play anything, that's me): Star Wars [briefly], Kult
[even briefly-er], SR, **&*, Tales from the Floating Vagabond... and a
few CCGs as well. And I'd play in more different games if I knew groups
playing them, and/or had the time to.

What's sad, though, is that I'm the only female gamer I know, and the
only female gamer most of my friends know, too. The Gaming Club at our
University has no female members, since I didn't rejoin it this year. The
only other three female gamers I've known ever, only went along because
their boyfriends were in the games, and their participation was limited
to rolling the dice and then gazing adoringly at "their guy"

*shudder* God, I hate bimbos.


Lady Jestyr

------------------------------------------------------
A titanic intellect... in a world full of icebergs
------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes s421539@*****.student.gu.edu.au
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1503
------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 3
From: Dvixen Vidi Vici <dvixen@****.spydernet.com>
Subject: Re: Women In Shadowrun re: was Mistaken Underpants
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 23:55:10 -0700 (PDT)
On Mon, 7 Oct 1996, Pete Sims wrote:


> Don't tell me about character flaws, I think nearly every one of my
> wifes characters has had some personal flaw and she's usually played it
> to the hilt.

I'd love for the environmeant to play my character's flaws to the hilt.

> My wife says that the reason she enjoys RP and Shadowrun so much is not
> so much the chance to play a personality, although that counts, but it's
> the total escapism offered from boring old mundane life. It's one of
> the few times when she can let her hair down and "get nuts". I think
> her next character is going to based on either Darkwing Duck (let's get
> dangerous) or the Fantastic Four (It's clobberin' time).

For me it is something to do, because I'm not one to go clubbing or hang
out with the girls, or whatever it is that most people my age do...

> It does seem that RP is primarily a male oriented thing, but I have
> noticed in my travels around the net, that more females are becoming
> involved in it, in fact I believe one posts to this group (Lady Jesty?).

Oh man... I just realised that I have been RPGing for over half of my
life. Well, if I wasn't depressed with my frustration in our SRII game,
I am *definitely* depressed now.

My first group was put together from friends from school, Diana, Stacey,
Leanne, Mike, myself and Jack, our GM. Lessee, that made 4 girls, 2 guys.
That was qutie the rarity back then... My mom played with us for a while,
but she lost interest.

I also used to work in the local Gaming store downtown, I remember
someone coming in laughing his head off. He had been in the comic store
across the road, when this 13 year old kid had come running in, 'There's a
GIRL working in [the game store]!!!' The customers were all quite shocked,
if I remember right, that the owner hired me to begin with.

> Whether this "male thing" is because of the general image given to SciFi
> complaining that real life interferes and should be cancelled :)

When I had begun playing, most of the females I knew were under the
impression that only 14 year old geek children with no social skills
played. Now... I guess they are all older now, huh? ;)


--
AJ Schaafsma Dvixen@****.spydernet.com
This post in no way reflect the opinions of the myriad voices in my head.
Message no. 4
From: Pete Sims <petesims@********.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Women In Shadowrun re: was Mistaken Underpants
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 01:19:11 +0100
In article <Pine.LNX.3.91.961006234258.8607D-100000@****.spydernet.com>,
Dvixen Vidi Vici <dvixen@****.spydernet.com> writes
>On Mon, 7 Oct 1996, Pete Sims wrote:
>> Don't tell me about character flaws, I think nearly every one of my
>> wifes characters has had some personal flaw and she's usually played it
>> to the hilt.
>
>I'd love for the environmeant to play my character's flaws to the hilt.

The environment is primarily a GM thing isn't it, or are we talking
about the facility to be able to play in general. ?

[snip]
>For me it is something to do, because I'm not one to go clubbing or hang
>out with the girls, or whatever it is that most people my age do...
>
Neither are we. The few clubs we've got in my area, are all for 6 year
olds up (at least that's how it seems) they're forever getting raided by
the law and charged with serving underaged. So we and a lot of people I
know don't bother with this. Gaming is the best alternative to standing
around in a deafening atmosphere screaming in someone's ear about what
you want to drink next while stepping over some body, or a puddle of
vomit on the floor, to elbow your way through the heaving sweating
drunken throng surrounding the bar like flies on a corpse. :(

It's so much more pleasant to sit at home with a bunch of friends,
eating pizza and other unhealthy stuff, drinking strange soft drinks
with exotic names, and digging a new cold tinny out of the fridge, and
play a game that is both entertaining and educational. :)

[snip]
>Oh man... I just realised that I have been RPGing for over half of my
>life. Well, if I wasn't depressed with my frustration in our SRII game,
>I am *definitely* depressed now.

I know what what you mean, I'm counting up to 25 years gaming now. :(

>My first group was put together from friends from school, Diana, Stacey,
>Leanne, Mike, myself and Jack, our GM. Lessee, that made 4 girls, 2 guys.
>That was qutie the rarity back then... My mom played with us for a while,
>but she lost interest.

I actually got introduced to gaming by the most psychotic and
munchkinsied GM it's ever been my displeasure to know, and for some
reason I still know him. For 25 years I've been arguing with him that
"Yes he should let characters live beyond three game sessions -
especially when all they've done is buy a beer. {:-/

>I also used to work in the local Gaming store downtown, I remember
>someone coming in laughing his head off. He had been in the comic store
>across the road, when this 13 year old kid had come running in, 'There's a
>GIRL working in [the game store]!!!' The customers were all quite shocked,
>if I remember right, that the owner hired me to begin with.

LOL, there are *no* women working in gaming stores here (OK, we've only
got two on the entire Island, but... strangely enough, allowing for how
many females I know that play, none of them go into one of these stores.
The one is crowded with kids fighting over the latest TSR Warhammer box
set, and the other one is full of college undergrads pretending to be
really cool dudes and hanging out in the most ridiculous attire I've
ever seen. There seems to be something about English Universities and
Colleges that brings out the "anorak" in people :(

>> Whether this "male thing" is because of the general image given to
SciFi
>> complaining that real life interferes and should be cancelled :)
>
>When I had begun playing, most of the females I knew were under the
>impression that only 14 year old geek children with no social skills
>played. Now... I guess they are all older now, huh? ;)

Hehehe, but let's face it, when you take into account the percentage of
people that play "games" in general, they're not wrong. :(

Yeah, older. Another pet theory I have regarding "age" and gaming is...
>>>start rant<<<
Have you noticed that the majority of people that play the more
intelligent RPGs (like Shadowrun - he says desperately trying to
compliment people before inadvertantly insulting them) are really just
kids who have "matured". I'm 36, my oldest player is 52, my youngest
25, to look at the group I've got, in general appearance ther is little
between them, they're all casual people, with a bright look on life, and
a sense of humour, now in comparison to that, are a couple of people I
know who "don't indulge in such silliness", the one, 32, looks about
56, and feels it. The other example, is a man who is 10 years my
junior, and is silver haired, haggard and has started developing a
stoop, as though a great weight sits on his shoulders. I keep expecting
him to pull out his pension book.

I don't know about others on this list (I can't see images on e-mail -
yet). But, RPG people, seem to have a more enthusiastic approach to
communication, and life in general, and with this enthusiasm comes a
certain youthfulness, both in appearance, and attitude. I;m a great
people watcher, and have an entertaining time trying to guess a persons
personality, job and lifestyle by watching how they act in public (I'm
not *always* right, but I'm getting there) And, to look at people, it's
instantly noticeable that those who have accepted their "maturity" and
are doing things in an *adult* fashion, invariably look older than they
actually are, whereas the people who indulge their little whimsies and
play games, muck around, have a laugh at the oppressive society we live
in, and indulge their sense of humour, with very little care to
appearing "adult", invariably look younger than their actual age.

Obviously something I've always believed in may possibly be true. If
you are active, in both mind and body, and have an active and fertile
imagination, the rest of "normal" mankind, will age before you do. :)

>>>end rant<<<

Just my thoughts. Anyone else got a take on this. ??

Pete
--
Pete Sims
Heroes or Fools? That's a determination others will make in hindsight. But by
being here now, we make that determination for ourselves, and it's neither.
Lt.Col.T.C.McQueen
Message no. 5
From: Dvixen Vidi Vici <dvixen@****.SPYDERNET.COM>
Subject: Re: Women In Shadowrun re: was Mistaken Underpants
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 23:09:48 -0700
On Wed, 9 Oct 1996, Pete Sims wrote:

> >I'd love for the environmeant to play my character's flaws to the hilt.
>
> The environment is primarily a GM thing isn't it, or are we talking
> about the facility to be able to play in general. ?

Primarily a GM thing. I have sent a rant (and I warned the group that it
was a rant) to our group, since the GM tabled discussion on his game.
Via email of course, I have a temper to match that of my character's, and
email gives me a chance to cool a bit. And rant without being
interrupted. I hate that, and the GM, it seems, always interrupts. I
have permission to use the cat-sprayer when he does. And I have had to
use it on the rest of the group.

As for playing in general, I wouldn't mind another group for a while,



> LOL, there are *no* women working in gaming stores here (OK, we've only
> got two on the entire Island, but... strangely enough, allowing for how
> many females I know that play, none of them go into one of these stores.

Our city saw a shift in female gamers after I started working there, much to
the delight of the store owners. (More customers)

(I'm off for sleep, I have a staff meeting at 7am, thanks to everyone who
had to sit throught my rants. comments and suggestions are*hugely*
appreciated)

-Dvixen

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