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Message no. 1
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: World Atlas...was World Map
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 09:08:39 -0700
| | The world map idea is a good one, btw.

Loki and I were discussing this just last night...

| On this I have something to say. FASA's stance is that they want
| GM's to have the freedom to do what they want with the rest of the
| world (at least, that's what I heard). So they aren't going to
| publish a world map. Fine. Except, that they make several
| references to other countries from time to time. The one that comes
| to mind is a reference to a metahuman country somewhere in Siberia.
| My feeling is that if they are going to say something about a country
| they should at least let us know where that country is.

I agree...they make references and then nothing to back them up. Now I can
understand them not wanting to tie down any future plans, but I don't think
we are asking for specifics just borders and some cities that are major
and/or common. Basically we would like to see a world atlas. Take all the
maps already published as well as a few new ones and then roll them all
together into one book sort of like the contacts book from the GM screen,
hell they could bundle it with a new version of the GM's screen for all I
care...I think we could use with a new one. I know that it is tough for
some of us Americans to fully visualize the layout of European countries,
just as I m sure that alot of Europeans who have never been here would have
a tough time visualizing America.

On a similar note...why isn't there some sort of sourcebook for Tokyo or
Chiba City even...they are supposed to be huge in the SR universe, but we
have little or no info on them.

| The lack of a world map is the only thing about Shadowrun that really
| frustrates me.

I agree its tough to not know what they are talking about.

-Caric


Word to the wise... Never anger a dragon, for you are crunchy, and would
be good with brie!!!

-Karl Teranssen av Drakkar
Message no. 2
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: World Atlas...was World Map
Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 10:50:14 +0100
Caric said on 9:08/16 May 97...

> I know that it is tough for some of us Americans to fully visualize the
> layout of European countries, just as I m sure that alot of Europeans
> who have never been here would have a tough time visualizing America.

We get loads of American TV shows and movies, so I think most Europeans
have a reasonable idea of what American cities look like, on a basic
level. The only real problem I think I run into are the weird names you
give to streets over there (numbers, SE, NW, and all that).

I found Sprawl Sites a pretty good sourcebook to get an idea of the
layout of buildings (at least in SR), even though the maps are very plain
and a bit simplified. Also the maps in the back of the Seattle Sourcebook
help in visualizing what Seattle looks like -- they make it so easy to
point to them and say "You're about here, and this is where the corp's
offices are."

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
In another place, in another time, I'd be driving trucks
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 3
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: World Atlas...was World Map
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 10:45:04 -0700
| > I know that it is tough for some of us Americans to fully visualize the
| > layout of European countries, just as I m sure that alot of Europeans
| > who have never been here would have a tough time visualizing America.
|
| We get loads of American TV shows and movies, so I think most Europeans
| have a reasonable idea of what American cities look like, on a basic
| level. The only real problem I think I run into are the weird names you
| give to streets over there (numbers, SE, NW, and all that).

I think that alot of us Americans have problems with street names here too.
:)
I can't stand it when a town has two streets with the same name, one with
East and the other West or some such nonsense.

| I found Sprawl Sites a pretty good sourcebook to get an idea of the
| layout of buildings (at least in SR), even though the maps are very plain
| and a bit simplified. Also the maps in the back of the Seattle Sourcebook
| help in visualizing what Seattle looks like -- they make it so easy to
| point to them and say "You're about here, and this is where the corp's
| offices are."

The general nature of the maps are good I think because they allow for
multi-purpose. I little imagination and that wharehouse is Renraku's
basement. Well you get the idea. ;)
Your remark about the Seattle map in the back of the BBB illustrates my
earlier point perfectly. Just give us all an atlas with 2050ish maps of
the world no major specifics are necessary IMHO.

-Caric


Word to the wise... Never anger a dragon, for you are crunchy, and would
be good with brie!!!

-Karl Teranssen av Drakkar
Message no. 4
From: tom Cone <Brother-1@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: World Atlas...was World Map
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 12:37:17 -1000
We use current maps, with slight modifications, in my group. Figuring
that geography hasn't changed all that much, and the streets are gonna
be almost the same.

Brother-1. Decker for hire.
"Black IC!! You eeediot!! You bloated code!!
You sick little program!! I will DELETE YOU!!!!"
Message no. 5
From: Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: World Atlas...was World Map
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 19:46:20 +0100
In article <199705192237.PAA12919@***********.bryant.webtv.net>, tom
Cone <Brother-1@*****.NET> rambled on endlessly about World Atlas...was
World Map
>We use current maps, with slight modifications, in my group. Figuring
>that geography hasn't changed all that much, and the streets are gonna
>be almost the same.
>

Which brings the whole thread round to something I mentioned several
months ago. Some of us, in foreign countries, don't have access to maps
from places like the US. It has been brought to my attention that
Americans who are members of the AAA can have any maps they want free of
charge. Living in the south of England, I can't get anything like this,
and had to wait for 4 months for a map of Seattle, let alone any other
city. Most of these are only crappy tourist maps.

European cities are, in comparison, relatively easy to get hold of.
I've tried contacting the US Embassy in London, but they have been
singularly unhelpful, and the concept of paying silly amounts of money
to a local bookstore for each map I want, is damned irritating.

It's OK, having simplisitic maps in the sourcebooks, like the Seattle
book, but they don't help much when an address is given in the text that
is not part of the _very_ small area of Seattle that is covered. Though
there are a fair number of "City Map" sites on the net, they're slow and
cumbersome, and when one has to pay for one's connection, it starts to
bite into the old money somewhat.

I can find absolutely nothing on the dockside areas, even though Seattle
has an extensive web presence. Which means for us poor Brits and
Europeans we're left completely in the dark about most areas where the
game is set.

The same applies to the world map idea that I've been trying to promote
for a while, it's difficult enough to try and second guess what FASA
have decided the world looks like already, but when sourcebooks start to
contradict themselves, the question must be asked, would it not help
FASA as well, to have such an article?

Whether it would be a graphical study on their web site, or part of a
world sourcebook, is something that ultimately only FASA can decide, but
the fans can certainly influence how that decision would go, remembering
of course, that FASA aren't a charity, and ultimately, must make a
profit out of their product.

--
__ \ | \ __
| | _` | __| | / _ \ \ / _ \ __ \ _` | _ \ __|
| | ( | | < ___ \ \ / __/ | | ( | __/ |
____/ \__,_|_| _|\_\ _/ _\ \_/ \___|_| _|\__, |\___|_|
A Dark Shadow in a Dark World |___/
Web page at: http://www.shalako.demon.co.uk
Message no. 6
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: World Atlas...was World Map
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 15:09:19 -0600
Avenger wrote:
|
| Which brings the whole thread round to something I mentioned several
| months ago. Some of us, in foreign countries, don't have access to maps
| from places like the US. It has been brought to my attention that
| Americans who are members of the AAA can have any maps they want free of
| charge. Living in the south of England, I can't get anything like this,
| and had to wait for 4 months for a map of Seattle, let alone any other
| city. Most of these are only crappy tourist maps.

Try http://www.lycos.com/roadmap.html

| European cities are, in comparison, relatively easy to get hold of.
| I've tried contacting the US Embassy in London, but they have been
| singularly unhelpful, and the concept of paying silly amounts of money
| to a local bookstore for each map I want, is damned irritating.

Thankfully in the Denver area there is a great bookstore with a good
map collection and a map store downtown if there's something out of
the ordinary. It costs a little money, but I've got a great map of
Japan now :)

| The same applies to the world map idea that I've been trying to promote
| for a while, it's difficult enough to try and second guess what FASA
| have decided the world looks like already, but when sourcebooks start to
| contradict themselves, the question must be asked, would it not help
| FASA as well, to have such an article?
|
| Whether it would be a graphical study on their web site, or part of a
| world sourcebook, is something that ultimately only FASA can decide, but
| the fans can certainly influence how that decision would go, remembering
| of course, that FASA aren't a charity, and ultimately, must make a
| profit out of their product.

I like the idea of adding it to a new GM screen. Maybe we can petition
FASAMike (nicely).

-David
--
/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking
alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~
Message no. 7
From: tom Cone <Brother-1@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: World Atlas...was World Map
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 11:34:01 -1000
>Silly amounts of money for maps
Have you tried the individual states tourist board ( or whatever ). They
will probably send you a map for free.

Brother-1. Decker for hire.
"Black IC!! You eeediot!! You bloated code!!
You sick little program!! I will DELETE YOU!!!!"
Message no. 8
From: Ray & Tamara <macey@*******.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: World Atlas...was World Map
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 10:13:47 +1000
> | Which brings the whole thread round to something I mentioned several
> | months ago. Some of us, in foreign countries, don't have access to
maps
> | from places like the US. It has been brought to my attention that
> | Americans who are members of the AAA can have any maps they want free
of
> | charge. Living in the south of England, I can't get anything like
this,
> | and had to wait for 4 months for a map of Seattle, let alone any other
> | city. Most of these are only crappy tourist maps.
>
> Try http://www.lycos.com/roadmap.html

I went and had a look, and it's quite useful. I've bookmarked it even.
One problem though, is how do you find the Zip Codes of American cities?
Living in Australia, I don't know them, and don't know how to find them
out.

Ray.

-----------------------------------------------------
| The universe is a big place, and whatever happens,|
| You will not be missed |
-----------------------------------------------------

EMAIL: macey@*******.com.au
Message no. 9
From: Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: World Atlas...was World Map
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 23:52:30 +0100
In article <199705212134.OAA16614@***********.bryant.webtv.net>, tom
Cone <Brother-1@*****.NET> rambled on endlessly about World Atlas...was
World Map
>>Silly amounts of money for maps
>Have you tried the individual states tourist board ( or whatever ). They
>will probably send you a map for free.

Finding the addresses for these places isn't particularly easy, then I
have to pay overseas postage rates :( Whichever passage I try to follow
it ends up costing silly amounts of money.

To be fair, I don't really expect FASA to produce well detailed maps of
cities, if I'm going to run a game in a city, it's really down to me to
get a map of that city, but the world map, would most certainly be
damned helpful. That's something that FASA could produce, if it was
profitable enough for them. A couple of hundred people on a mailing list
probably aren't quite sufficient influence, though this list does seem
to represent a good selection of SR players acros the globe.

--
__ \ | \ __
| | _` | __| | / _ \ \ / _ \ __ \ _` | _ \ __|
| | ( | | < ___ \ \ / __/ | | ( | __/ |
____/ \__,_|_| _|\_\ _/ _\ \_/ \___|_| _|\__, |\___|_|
A Dark Shadow in a Dark World |___/
Web page at: http://www.shalako.demon.co.uk
Message no. 10
From: Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: World Atlas...was World Map
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 23:48:40 +0100
In article <199705212109.PAA26500@******>, David Buehrer
<dbuehrer@****.ORG> rambled on endlessly about World Atlas...was World
Map
>| and had to wait for 4 months for a map of Seattle, let alone any other
>| city. Most of these are only crappy tourist maps.
>
>Try http://www.lycos.com/roadmap.html

Thanks Dave, I already have 75 addresses of Net based map generators and
resources, but I pay for my connection by the minute to a telecom
company in the UK. Also, most of the net maps aren't particularly well
detailed, and the ones that are, take a _long_ time to download on this
side of the pond.

>| to a local bookstore for each map I want, is damned irritating.
>
>Thankfully in the Denver area there is a great bookstore with a good
>map collection and a map store downtown if there's something out of
>the ordinary. It costs a little money, but I've got a great map of
>Japan now :)

I envy you. I have a decent map of Japan, but can't get anything on
Tokyo, Osaka, Kyoto etc. :(

>| the fans can certainly influence how that decision would go, remembering
>| of course, that FASA aren't a charity, and ultimately, must make a
>| profit out of their product.
>
>I like the idea of adding it to a new GM screen. Maybe we can petition
>FASAMike (nicely).

Well, seeing as he's subscribed to this list, and the thread has been
going on for a few months (off and on) he may notice :)

I suppose I can be nice occassionally :)

--
__ \ | \ __
| | _` | __| | / _ \ \ / _ \ __ \ _` | _ \ __|
| | ( | | < ___ \ \ / __/ | | ( | __/ |
____/ \__,_|_| _|\_\ _/ _\ \_/ \___|_| _|\__, |\___|_|
A Dark Shadow in a Dark World |___/
Web page at: http://www.shalako.demon.co.uk
Message no. 11
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: World Atlas...was World Map
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 11:34:49 +0100
Avenger said on 23:52/21 May 97...

> >Have you tried the individual states tourist board ( or whatever ). They
> >will probably send you a map for free.
>
> Finding the addresses for these places isn't particularly easy, then I
> have to pay overseas postage rates :( Whichever passage I try to follow
> it ends up costing silly amounts of money.

Or having to wait for ages -- American companies etc. are somewhat
notorious for taking ages to ship things out of the country. Two, three,
or four months can be rule instead of exception if they decide to use
surface mail :(

> To be fair, I don't really expect FASA to produce well detailed maps of
> cities, if I'm going to run a game in a city, it's really down to me to
> get a map of that city, but the world map, would most certainly be
> damned helpful.

IMO all it would have to do is show the borders and names of countries, so
players know what country is where, much like with the city maps.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
If you never write anything down then no one knows exactly what you
said so you can always change it.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 12
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: World Atlas...was World Map
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 07:10:51 -0600
Avenger wrote:
|
| In article <199705212109.PAA26500@******>, David Buehrer
| <dbuehrer@****.ORG> rambled on endlessly about World Atlas...was World
| Map
| >| and had to wait for 4 months for a map of Seattle, let alone any other
| >| city. Most of these are only crappy tourist maps.
| >
| >Try http://www.lycos.com/roadmap.html
|
| Thanks Dave, I already have 75 addresses of Net based map generators and
| resources, but I pay for my connection by the minute to a telecom
| company in the UK. Also, most of the net maps aren't particularly well
| detailed, and the ones that are, take a _long_ time to download on this
| side of the pond.

Try this for free web access. I don't know about other countries,
but here in the US most public libraries are connected to the web.
You can use their terminals as long as you don't monopolize them and
look like you're actually doing research. If your libraries have web
access use them to find the map you want. Then scribble down the
address and go home and use your own account to download and print it
out.

Other than that I'll keep my eyes open. With all of the public
services available in the US there's gotta be a way to get maps for
near free.

-David
--
/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking
alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~
Message no. 13
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: World Atlas...was World Map
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 08:43:51 -0600
David Buehrer wrote:
|
| | Thanks Dave, I already have 75 addresses of Net based map generators and
| | resources, but I pay for my connection by the minute to a telecom
| | company in the UK. Also, most of the net maps aren't particularly well
| | detailed, and the ones that are, take a _long_ time to download on this
| | side of the pond.
|
| Try this for free web access. I don't know about other countries,
| but here in the US most public libraries are connected to the web.
| You can use their terminals as long as you don't monopolize them and
| look like you're actually doing research. If your libraries have web
| access use them to find the map you want. Then scribble down the
| address and go home and use your own account to download and print it
| out.
|
| Other than that I'll keep my eyes open. With all of the public
| services available in the US there's gotta be a way to get maps for
| near free.

<after his brain finally catches up> I just realized, a good library
should have maps somewhere. If not check to see if they have back
issues of magazines like National Geographic. Also, there's a decent
city map in almost every US phone book (yellow pages), and I think
city libraries keep track of current phone books. Anyway, the point
is, check out your local library, and university libraries also.

-David
--
/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking
alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~
Message no. 14
From: Angel Ramos y David Fayes <hansa@****.NET>
Subject: Re: World Atlas...was World Map
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 09:51:49 -0400
At 07:46 PM 20/05/1997 +0100, Dark Shadow wrote:
>In article <199705192237.PAA12919@***********.bryant.webtv.net>, tom
>Cone <Brother-1@*****.NET> rambled on endlessly about World Atlas...was
>World Map

[snip]
>I can find absolutely nothing on the dockside areas, even though Seattle
>has an extensive web presence. Which means for us poor Brits and
>Europeans we're left completely in the dark about most areas where the
>game is set.

I agree with DS as we Sudamericans are also left completely in the dark.


>Whether it would be a graphical study on their web site, or part of a
>world sourcebook, is something that ultimately only FASA can decide, but
>the fans can certainly influence how that decision would go, remembering
>of course, that FASA aren't a charity, and ultimately, must make a
>profit out of their product.

Maybe it could be posted in the web but in order to download it you must
pay a fee. That way Fasa IS happy and WE ARE ALSO HAPPY.,

How's that

The Elven Mage
Message no. 15
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: World Atlas...was World Map
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 08:49:26 -0600
Ray & Tamara wrote:
|
| > Try http://www.lycos.com/roadmap.html
|
| I went and had a look, and it's quite useful. I've bookmarked it even.
| One problem though, is how do you find the Zip Codes of American cities?
| Living in Australia, I don't know them, and don't know how to find them
| out.

Try it without entering the zipcode, just the name of the city and
the state. It'll put you in a strange spot, but it will work :)

-David
--
/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking
alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~
Message no. 16
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: World Atlas...was World Map
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 20:59:42 +0100
Angel Ramos y David Fayes said on 9:51/22 May 97...

> Maybe it could be posted in the web but in order to download it you must
> pay a fee. That way Fasa IS happy and WE ARE ALSO HAPPY.,

Okay, let's suppose you'd pay to download the map and then I ask you if
you can email me a copy...

Software companies have had to deal with that problem for ages, and if I
could be bothered to think for a minute I can probably come up with at
least a dozen anti-copy protection methods that all failed for very
simple reasons, most of them involving one person buying it (including
codes/passwords, manuals, etc.) and/or a person using a disassembler on
the software.
But then again, there are too many people around nowadays who've been
using computers since _after_ you had to know those sorts of things...
</rant>

To steer this back to SR a bit, as I recall someone on the list also once
said "Why don't FASA bring out software, shareware versions of their
books?" with the idea that you'd only get, for example, the first chapter
and if you wanted the whole thing you'd pay and get a code to unlock the
rest of the program.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
If you never write anything down then no one knows exactly what you
said so you can always change it.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 17
From: woneal@*******.NET
Subject: Re: World Atlas...was World Map
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 01:34:44 -0005
On 17 May 97 at 10:50, Gurth wrote:

> I found Sprawl Sites a pretty good sourcebook to get an idea of the
> layout of buildings (at least in SR), even though the maps are very plain
> and a bit simplified. Also the maps in the back of the Seattle Sourcebook

Too simplified for my taste. I've often wished that FASA would
re-release Sprawl Sites with better maps, including block maps, to make
quick city building easier. Especially if the block maps could be
photocopied, and the copies taped together to build a larger city map.

> help in visualizing what Seattle looks like -- they make it so easy to
> point to them and say "You're about here, and this is where the corp's
> offices are."

The regional maps were nice, but kind of hard to read. Two things I
didn't like was that the lakes and other features weren't very clear in
places, and there was no sort of topopgraphy. Most people don't realize
what the terrain in that area is like. Most of it consists of hills and
mountains, with very few "flat" areas, but the maps don't convey that.
I'm working on getting some USGS (US Geological Survey) maps that have
been digitized and I'm going to try to build some SR maps from those. If
it works out I might giv'em to Fro and Paolo to post.
--

Ashlocke
(woneal@*******.net)

"We shall never be able to remove suspicion and fear
as potential causes of war until communication is
permitted to flow, free and open, across international
boundries." -- Harry S. Truman
Message no. 18
From: Paolo Marcucci <paolo@*********.IT>
Subject: Re: World Atlas...was World Map
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 09:40:21 +0200
At 01:34 23/05/97 -0005, you wrote:
> The regional maps were nice, but kind of hard to read. Two things I
>didn't like was that the lakes and other features weren't very clear in
>places, and there was no sort of topopgraphy. Most people don't realize
>what the terrain in that area is like. Most of it consists of hills and
>mountains, with very few "flat" areas, but the maps don't convey that.
>I'm working on getting some USGS (US Geological Survey) maps that have
>been digitized and I'm going to try to build some SR maps from those. If
>it works out I might giv'em to Fro and Paolo to post.
>Ashlocke

That surely will be nice for local maps (cities, regions). The starting
point of this thread was to get a World map, with country borders correctly
laid down. The closest thing I know about it is the Sixth World project by
Wordman (http://www.flashpt.com/~lward/sixthworld/). I suggest everyone to
stop by this site and then comment about border location accuracy. I think
it's a damn good job, for North America and Asia. Now, if only someone
could provide us with a detailed (borders only) map of Europe, South
America, Middle East and Africa I'm sure we'll be happy for a long time :)

Bye, Paolo
____________________________________________________________
Paolo Marcucci paolo@*********.it
InterWare Service Provider Trieste, Italy
http://www.interware.it/ Tel. +39-40-411400
Message no. 19
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: World Atlas...was World Map
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 11:27:25 +0100
woneal@*******.NET said on 1:34/23 May 97...

> Too simplified for my taste. I've often wished that FASA would
> re-release Sprawl Sites with better maps, including block maps, to make
> quick city building easier. Especially if the block maps could be
> photocopied, and the copies taped together to build a larger city map.

That is a drawback, yeah. One more minor problem is that they're not all
to the same scale, so putting two of them next to each other is difficult.
If you're looking for a game supplement with more detailed building maps,
and most of them to the same scale, try the GM's Companion for
Millennium's End, though it also has lots of stuff that will be useless if
you don't play that game.

> The regional maps were nice, but kind of hard to read. Two things I
> didn't like was that the lakes and other features weren't very clear in
> places, and there was no sort of topopgraphy. Most people don't realize
> what the terrain in that area is like.

Yeah, that's a problem. From the maps it looks like Seattle is largely
flat, but I gather it isn't. And like I've said before, they don't fit
together -- it looks like they were drawn separately instead of as one
large map thatgot cut up into separate sections.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
If you never write anything down then no one knows exactly what you
said so you can always change it.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 20
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: World Atlas...was World Map
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 13:29:25 GMT
Gurth writes
>
> That is a drawback, yeah. One more minor problem is that they're not all
> to the same scale, so putting two of them next to each other is
> difficult.
> If you're looking for a game supplement with more detailed building maps,
> and most of them to the same scale, try the GM's Companion for
> Millennium's End, though it also has lots of stuff that will be useless if
> you don't play that game.
>
Just started, not half so much fun when the GM shows you he has a
book with decent plans labeled 'international Airport' and you are
likely to be on the 'stop the terrorists' side :(. The building plans
i have seen for Milleniums end are supurb.
On a side note its a dangerous game. So far two bullets fired (from
pistols) one guy dead other just saved from a 'one pint a minute'
bloodloss and in serious need of a hospital, thankfully no one has
shot at the PC's yet, we have more sense than stand where groups of
guys with automatic weapons can see us.

> Yeah, that's a problem. From the maps it looks like Seattle is largely
> flat, but I gather it isn't. And like I've said before, they don't fit
> together -- it looks like they were drawn separately instead of as one
> large map thatgot cut up into separate sections.
>
They are close but annoyingly so as they won't match up.
The really annoying thing tend to be that you get some idea where in
the city things are from FASA's descriptions but can never quite pin
things down all too often. Note that careful checking allows you to
locate the UB's old octagon chapterhouse which is on the downtwon
street map :) though not listed on the index, presumably because the
Seattle sourcebook predates the UB in game.

Mark
Message no. 21
From: tom Cone <Brother-1@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: World Atlas...was World Map
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 05:19:36 -1000
>then I have to pay overseas postage...
Most states tourism board has a 1-800 number, if you ask around for a
specific state, I'm sure someone can help you...

Brother-1. Decker for hire.
"Black IC!! You eeediot!! You bloated code!!
You sick little program!! I will DELETE YOU!!!!"
Message no. 22
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: World Atlas...was World Map
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 22:09:47 +0100
tom Cone said on 5:19/23 May 97...

> >then I have to pay overseas postage...
> Most states tourism board has a 1-800 number, if you ask around for a
> specific state, I'm sure someone can help you...

Yeah right, I bet Pete decides to pay for an overseas phone bill instead
of an airmail stamp. Certain numbers may be free, but only if you're
already in the country they're located in...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
If you never write anything down then no one knows exactly what you
said so you can always change it.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 23
From: tom Cone <Brother-1@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: World Atlas...was World Map
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 11:30:24 -1000
>I bet pete decides to pay for an overseas >phone bill instead of an
airmail stamp.
Okay, so how's he access the internet? What's a guy like me, friendly
and in Hawaii, likely to do with just a touch of cajoling? Maybe I'd
give folks a call using some other address as my mailing addy, and so
might others who are of the friendly persuasion.

Brother-1. Decker for hire.
"Black IC!! You eeediot!! You bloated code!!
You sick little program!! I will DELETE YOU!!!!"
Message no. 24
From: Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: World Atlas...was World Map
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 02:22:32 +0100
In article <3.0.1.16.19970522095149.460fcadc@***.true.net>, Angel Ramos
y David Fayes <hansa@****.NET> rambled on endlessly about World
Atlas...was World Map

>>of course, that FASA aren't a charity, and ultimately, must make a
>>profit out of their product.
>
>Maybe it could be posted in the web but in order to download it you must
>pay a fee. That way Fasa IS happy and WE ARE ALSO HAPPY.,
>
>How's that

Neat idea, but slightly impractical unfortunately. Secure financial
transmissions across the internet, aren't overly brilliant at the
moment, still very much in an experimental stage, and highly dependant
on the skills of the web programmer. Also, it invariably requires the
presence of a credit card. The other downside is that once one person
has a copy, you can guarantee that a large number of "friendly" copies
will be dispatched to various areas within 24 hours, in much the same
way that software is transmitted now. Which means FASA lose out again.
Very much the same reason that it would be impractical for them to
release encrypted books on cd-rom, as suggested by someone once, it only
takes one person to buy it, and he/she can give their mates a copy, and
it is slowly propogated around to a large number of people.

--
Dark Avenger - A Dark Shadow in a Dark World
--------------------------------------------------------
| Web page at: http://www.shalako.demon.co.uk containing |
| the Alternative UK Sourcebook & Newcomers Guide to Stk.|
| (Microsoft Site Builder/Web Developer - Level 2.) |
| I'm not a Geek - I'm a Bill Gates extra-terrestrial |
--------------------------------------------------------
Reality is an illusion caused by a lack of e-mail
Message no. 25
From: Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: World Atlas...was World Map
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 02:26:10 +0100
In article <199705221443.IAA00622@******>, David Buehrer
<dbuehrer@****.ORG> rambled on endlessly about World Atlas...was World
Map

><after his brain finally catches up>

<grin> Ah, someone else who has that problem :)

>I just realized, a good library
>should have maps somewhere.

Yes, the local library does have maps, geological, and geographical,
city maps only of the UK cities, and only a few of them.

>If not check to see if they have back
>issues of magazines like National Geographic.

Tried that, the local newsagent is lucky to get a copy of this magazine
once every six months, let alone on release. The library has never
heard of the magazine, and as it's an American publication wouldn't get
it anyway. <duh>

>Also, there's a decent
>city map in almost every US phone book (yellow pages),

I live in the UK, US yellow pages are not a requirement for this country
:)

>and I think
>city libraries keep track of current phone books. Anyway, the point
>is, check out your local library,

Did that, total dead end, though it might be useful for other people on
the list.

>and university libraries also.

Don't have a decent one within reasonable travelling distance, The two
Universities within a days travel of where I live, are only Universities
in title, and jokes in reality.

--
__ \ | \ __
| | _` | __| | / _ \ \ / _ \ __ \ _` | _ \ __|
| | ( | | < ___ \ \ / __/ | | ( | __/ |
____/ \__,_|_| _|\_\ _/ _\ \_/ \___|_| _|\__, |\___|_|
A Dark Shadow in a Dark World |___/
Web page at: http://www.shalako.demon.co.uk
Message no. 26
From: Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: World Atlas...was World Map
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 02:17:43 +0100
In article <199705221310.HAA27612@******>, David Buehrer
<dbuehrer@****.ORG> rambled on endlessly about World Atlas...was World
Map
>Avenger wrote:
>| company in the UK. Also, most of the net maps aren't particularly well
>| detailed, and the ones that are, take a _long_ time to download on this
>| side of the pond.
>
>Try this for free web access. I don't know about other countries,
>but here in the US most public libraries are connected to the web.

Unfortunately in my area you pay for the use of the terminals. It's 5
uk pounds where I live, per hour. That's around about 15 dollars. :(

>Other than that I'll keep my eyes open. With all of the public
>services available in the US there's gotta be a way to get maps for
>near free.

Not to this country. A friend in the States has been hunting down maps
for me but he's still got to pay postage to this country, and as he
found out, some branches of the US post office don't know where the
United Kingdom is, and return the package as undelivered. <grin>


--
Dark Avenger - A Dark Shadow in a Dark World
--------------------------------------------------------
| Web page at: http://www.shalako.demon.co.uk containing |
| the Alternative UK Sourcebook & Newcomers Guide to Stk.|
| (Microsoft Site Builder/Web Developer - Level 2.) |
| I'm not a Geek - I'm a Bill Gates extra-terrestrial |
--------------------------------------------------------
Reality is an illusion caused by a lack of e-mail
Message no. 27
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: World Atlas...was World Map
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 11:14:04 +0100
tom Cone said on 11:30/23 May 97...

> >I bet pete decides to pay for an overseas >phone bill instead of an
> > airmail stamp.
> Okay, so how's he access the internet?

Probably by letting his modem dial into a local number owned by his
provider...

> What's a guy like me, friendly and in Hawaii, likely to do with just a
> touch of cajoling? Maybe I'd give folks a call using some other address
> as my mailing addy, and so might others who are of the friendly
> persuasion.

I think you've lost me here... Are you referring to using the internet to
phone someone?

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
If you never write anything down then no one knows exactly what you
said so you can always change it.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
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GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
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Message no. 28
From: tom Cone <Brother-1@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: World Atlas...was World Map
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 23:43:07 -1000
>Are you referring to using the internet to call >someone?
Well, yeah, I guess. If your gonna send e-mail around anyway, you could
contact someone this way that might help out. Most anyone on the list,
I'd imagine, would be willing to grab maps of their state/country, as
long as their free, for the benefit of others, and how much does it cost
to send a map from Hawaii to Sweden? (about 1/2 way round the world.)?

Brother-1. Decker for hire.
"Black IC!! You eeediot!! You bloated code!!
You sick little program!! I will DELETE YOU!!!!"
Message no. 29
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: World Atlas...was World Map
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 12:36:23 +0100
|>and I think
|>city libraries keep track of current phone books. Anyway, the point
|>is, check out your local library,
|
|Did that, total dead end, though it might be useful for other people on
|the list.

You must have a pretty naff local library...
The library in oldham has shelves of atlases....
(It even has tourist books, which probably contain maps of various foreign
cities.... Did you try looking under tourism?)

|>and university libraries also.
|
|Don't have a decent one within reasonable travelling distance, The two
|Universities within a days travel of where I live, are only Universities
|in title, and jokes in reality.

Ahhhh, the old polytechnics with new flashy university names.....
(Like Leicester Poly was renamed Demontfort University.... La-de-da....)
:)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 30
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: World Atlas...was World Map
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 12:42:08 +0100
|
|In article <199705221310.HAA27612@******>, David Buehrer
|<dbuehrer@****.ORG> rambled on endlessly about World Atlas...was World
|Map
|>Avenger wrote:
|>| company in the UK. Also, most of the net maps aren't particularly well
|>| detailed, and the ones that are, take a _long_ time to download on this
|>| side of the pond.
|>
|>Try this for free web access. I don't know about other countries,
|>but here in the US most public libraries are connected to the web.
|
|Unfortunately in my area you pay for the use of the terminals. It's 5
|uk pounds where I live, per hour. That's around about 15 dollars. :(

Since when did 5 pounds = 15 dollars?
In the old days, you used to get 2 dollars to the pound, but now the dollar
is closer to the pound than ever, I think....

5 pounds is probably more like $7....

Also, try to look for cybercafe's....
The one in manchester is 2.50 for a half hour, so there might be one near
you that's cheaper than the library....

And I've just had another thought... *ping*

I *THINK* there's such a thing as an e-mail gopher service...
(If you can find out how to use gopher).

I think you can e-mail a request to this thing, and IT finds the stuff and
maybe e-mails if to you.....

There should be something out there like that....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 31
From: Kim Christiansen <kimc@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: World Atlas...was World Map
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 11:15:20 +0100
Mercy MErcy me, I guess we in the US take all this for granted. I have
unlimited access to the net so waiting for a couple of hours for a download
is no problem.I'll try and help...

Zip codes in tge US are available from our local Telco's... do a yahoo
search for telephone and US or by state, washington,etc...
www.uswest.com is the major player in the western US, also try pactel for
california zips, or try the US Postal Service on-line, again yahoo will give
you the www address you need.

Also, for Maps, books etc, try www.amazon.com. I don't work there or
anything, it's just fun to check out.
You should be able to buy an atlas from them or the all mighty Thomas Guide,
drivers, salespeople and anyone who wants to navigate in the US has one of
these puppies for their home region. They aren't cheap, but they are
definitely worth the price.

Hope that helps.

kim

----------
> From: Ray & Tamara <macey@*******.COM.AU>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: World Atlas...was World Map
> Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 10:13:47 +1000
>
> > | Which brings the whole thread round to something I mentioned several
> > | months ago. Some of us, in foreign countries, don't have access to
> maps
> > | from places like the US. It has been brought to my attention that
> > | Americans who are members of the AAA can have any maps they want free
> of
> > | charge. Living in the south of England, I can't get anything like
> this,
> > | and had to wait for 4 months for a map of Seattle, let alone any other
> > | city. Most of these are only crappy tourist maps.
> >
> > Try http://www.lycos.com/roadmap.html
>
> I went and had a look, and it's quite useful. I've bookmarked it even.
> One problem though, is how do you find the Zip Codes of American cities?
> Living in Australia, I don't know them, and don't know how to find them
> out.
>
> Ray.
>
> -----------------------------------------------------
> | The universe is a big place, and whatever happens,|
> | You will not be missed |
> -----------------------------------------------------
>
> EMAIL: macey@*******.com.au
Message no. 32
From: Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: World Atlas...was World Map
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 15:51:49 +0100
In article <199705240913.LAA15348@**********.xs4all.nl>, Gurth
<gurth@******.NL> rambled on endlessly about World Atlas...was World Map
>tom Cone said on 11:30/23 May 97...
>
>> >I bet pete decides to pay for an overseas >phone bill instead of an
>> > airmail stamp.
>> Okay, so how's he access the internet?
>
>Probably by letting his modem dial into a local number owned by his
>provider...

Correct. I actually dial a number in London, which, though charged at
local rates, is not a local connection. Weekends is the only time that
costs are cheap enough to warrant browsing, otherwise 2-500 pound phone
bills are to be expected.

>> as my mailing addy, and so might others who are of the friendly
>> persuasion.
>
>I think you've lost me here... Are you referring to using the internet to
>phone someone?

I think he's trying to say that if one was to ask very very nicely, that
he would do the checking, and provide addresses of local tourist
industries ffor foreigners to contact - by phone/mail, to request maps
of the area. A nice thought, but still not one that cuts costs a great
deal.


--
Dark Avenger - A Dark Shadow in a Dark World
--------------------------------------------------------
| Web page at: http://www.shalako.demon.co.uk containing |
| the Alternative UK Sourcebook & Newcomers Guide to Stk.|
| (Microsoft Site Builder/Web Developer - Level 2.) |
| I'm not a Geek - I'm a Bill Gates extra-terrestrial |
--------------------------------------------------------
Reality is an illusion caused by a lack of e-mail
Message no. 33
From: Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: World Atlas...was World Map
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 15:46:51 +0100
In article <27636.199705241142@*****.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>, Spike
<u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK> rambled on endlessly about World
Atlas...was World Map
>d about 15 dollars. :(
>
>Since when did 5 pounds = 15 dollars?
>In the old days, you used to get 2 dollars to the pound, but now the dollar
>is closer to the pound than ever, I think....

The last exchange rate I had near me was 2.47 dollars to the pound,
checking today it's 1.63, so yers $8 is closer :) However, I was going
on an exchange rate that was prior to Barmy Blair.

>Also, try to look for cybercafe's....
>The one in manchester is 2.50 for a half hour, so there might be one near
>you that's cheaper than the library....

The Cybercafe in Manchester might be 2.50 an hour, but the Isle of Wight
doesn't know what a Cybercafe is. So, paying 25.00 to get across the
pond, plus another 20-30 in petrol to get to Manchester, plus other
essential expences like food.. :)

I live on the wrong side of the most expensive piece of water in Europe,
not a lot of fun when it comes to travelling across to the mainland.
Even travelling by foot and using public transport to reach an arae
containing a half reasonable cafe, is more expensive than reason allows.

>And I've just had another thought... *ping*
>
>I *THINK* there's such a thing as an e-mail gopher service...
>(If you can find out how to use gopher).

Why would I want to use Gopher. An archaic and dying service, that has
no relevance to the software on my machine. :)

>I think you can e-mail a request to this thing, and IT finds the stuff and
>maybe e-mails if to you.....
>
>There should be something out there like that....

There might be, I'll look into it, but then I still end up paying BT
telecom rates, weekends aren't too bad, but I don't have a lot of time
on weekends to dig around :(.

--
Dark Avenger - A Dark Shadow in a Dark World
--------------------------------------------------------
| Web page at: http://www.shalako.demon.co.uk containing |
| the Alternative UK Sourcebook & Newcomers Guide to Stk.|
| (Microsoft Site Builder/Web Developer - Level 2.) |
| I'm not a Geek - I'm a Bill Gates extra-terrestrial |
--------------------------------------------------------
Reality is an illusion caused by a lack of e-mail
Message no. 34
From: Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: World Atlas...was World Map
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 15:49:21 +0100
In article <27580.199705241136@*****.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>, Spike
<u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK> rambled on endlessly about World
Atlas...was World Map
>|Did that, total dead end, though it might be useful for other people on
>|the list.
>
>You must have a pretty naff local library...

Naff doesn't even begin to describe it. The reference section, which in
most libraries consists of a vast number of books, here, contains old
people, and newspapers.

>The library in oldham has shelves of atlases....
>(It even has tourist books, which probably contain maps of various foreign
>cities.... Did you try looking under tourism?)

With all due respect, I'm not a complete idiot. Yes I did look under
tourism, and a half dozen other headings.

>|>and university libraries also.
>|
>|Don't have a decent one within reasonable travelling distance, The two
>|Universities within a days travel of where I live, are only Universities
>|in title, and jokes in reality.
>
>Ahhhh, the old polytechnics with new flashy university names.....
>(Like Leicester Poly was renamed Demontfort University.... La-de-da....)

Yep, that about sums it up.

--
Dark Avenger - A Dark Shadow in a Dark World
--------------------------------------------------------
| Web page at: http://www.shalako.demon.co.uk containing |
| the Alternative UK Sourcebook & Newcomers Guide to Stk.|
| (Microsoft Site Builder/Web Developer - Level 2.) |
| I'm not a Geek - I'm a Bill Gates extra-terrestrial |
--------------------------------------------------------
Reality is an illusion caused by a lack of e-mail
Message no. 35
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: World Atlas...was World Map
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 08:37:20 +0100
|>I think you can e-mail a request to this thing, and IT finds the stuff and
|>maybe e-mails if to you.....
|>
|>There should be something out there like that....
|
|There might be, I'll look into it, but then I still end up paying BT
|telecom rates, weekends aren't too bad, but I don't have a lot of time
|on weekends to dig around :(.

I'll do a bit of digging for you after the exams....
It'd save a lot on download time if this thing could do all the search and
retieval while you're off-line.....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 36
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: World Atlas...was World Map
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 12:00:14 -0600
Avenger wrote:
|
| >Other than that I'll keep my eyes open. With all of the public
| >services available in the US there's gotta be a way to get maps for
| >near free.
|
| Not to this country. A friend in the States has been hunting down maps
| for me but he's still got to pay postage to this country, and as he
| found out, some branches of the US post office don't know where the
| United Kingdom is, and return the package as undelivered. <grin>

Okay, internet wise US tourism sites suck. If you want to go
through the internet (email or WWW) check out the Tattered Cover.

http://www.tatteredcover.com/tc/

mailto:books@*************.com

They will find books/etc based on the title and parts of titles.
Sometimes they can track something down based on a description of a
story. They're very friendly (mostly :) and love to help people.

Sorry, that's the best option I could come up with. Maybe the
members in Europe and other countries could work together to find
sources in their area.

-David
--
/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking
alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~
Message no. 37
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: World Atlas...was World Map
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 08:10:42 -0600
Avenger wrote:
|
| ><after his brain finally catches up>
|
| <grin> Ah, someone else who has that problem :)

More often then I would like :)

As to your lack of good libraries, libraries in the US have an
interlibrary loan program. Check to see if your local libraries can
loan/borrow publications from other libraries in your country.

-David
--
/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking
alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~
Message no. 38
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: World Atlas...was World Map
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 15:13:09 +0100
|
|Avenger wrote:
||
|| ><after his brain finally catches up>
||
|| <grin> Ah, someone else who has that problem :)
|
|More often then I would like :)
|
|As to your lack of good libraries, libraries in the US have an
|interlibrary loan program. Check to see if your local libraries can
|loan/borrow publications from other libraries in your country.

The answer is, yes.
That scheme exists over here as well.....
You just place an order, pay a small fee, and a few days/weeks later, you
get a letter saying the book you want is now in.
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
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