Logs for ShadowRN and Associated Mailing Lists

From:	"Randy Nickel (General)" <a-randyn@*********.com>
Subject:	World of Darkness/ShadowRun
Date:	Fri, 29 Mar 1996 10:57:09 -0800

Message no. 1 I had mentioned that before that I have had the Idea of combining these
two worlds and have come up with this.

Vampire/Werewolf disciplines/gifts work different in a Shadow Run based
world. In WoD you add an Attribute to a Skill and then roll against a
target number that is usually the target's Willpower or is resisted by
a Attribute + Skill roll.

In takes a lot of converting but it can be done. I have not converted
every single discipline/gift. I did the conversions as players learned
disciplines/gifts.

Some of your worst nightmares (munchkinism type stuff) is this.
Werewolves can spend Rage for extra actions, Vampires put blood into a
discipline called Celerity for extra actions. It is possible for these
beings to take five actions in a single turn!

Werewolves have the ability to step into the Umbra (read as Astral
Space) then step out again. Nothing short of Astral Barriers could stop
them from entering into a building through Astral Space and then
appearing in the real world.

There is more but you should be getting the point. This is not a game
for the meak. And if you add Mages, well it just gets worse from there.
Someone mentioned that the only drawback to Mages from WoD is that they
must conform to static reality. Well in the Shadow Run world magick is
a reality. Paradox (their limitation) does not truly exist.

So why play in a world like that. Munchinism is not it. As powerful as
players are there is opposition that can give them trouble enough.
Especially if you consider that the MegaCorps may be run by the most
powerful "true mages" or vampires or even nastier things.

Anyone who still wants to go over this in more detail should contact me
personally as I could go on with this all day.

Randy Nickel

From:	Roger Ramirez <chariot@*******.net>
Subject:	Re: World of Darkness/ShadowRun
Date:	Fri, 29 Mar 1996 14:39:03 -0500 (EST)

Message no. 2 At 10:57 AM 3/29/96 -0800, you wrote:
>I had mentioned that before that I have had the Idea of combining these
>two worlds and have come up with this.
>
>Vampire/Werewolf disciplines/gifts work different in a Shadow Run based
>world. In WoD you add an Attribute to a Skill and then roll against a
>target number that is usually the target's Willpower or is resisted by
>a Attribute + Skill roll.
>
>In takes a lot of converting but it can be done. I have not converted
>every single discipline/gift. I did the conversions as players learned
>disciplines/gifts.
>
>Some of your worst nightmares (munchkinism type stuff) is this.
>Werewolves can spend Rage for extra actions, Vampires put blood into a
>discipline called Celerity for extra actions. It is possible for these
>beings to take five actions in a single turn!
>
>Werewolves have the ability to step into the Umbra (read as Astral
>Space) then step out again. Nothing short of Astral Barriers could stop
>them from entering into a building through Astral Space and then
>appearing in the real world.
>
>There is more but you should be getting the point. This is not a game
>for the meak. And if you add Mages, well it just gets worse from there.
>Someone mentioned that the only drawback to Mages from WoD is that they
>must conform to static reality. Well in the Shadow Run world magick is
>a reality. Paradox (their limitation) does not truly exist.
>
>So why play in a world like that. Munchinism is not it. As powerful as
>players are there is opposition that can give them trouble enough.
>Especially if you consider that the MegaCorps may be run by the most
>powerful "true mages" or vampires or even nastier things.
>
>Anyone who still wants to go over this in more detail should contact me
>personally as I could go on with this all day.
>
>Randy Nickel
>
This sounds neat. If GM's feel they are only partly munchkinous or just
want to be really evil to they're players they can set up a Nephandi or some
other evil mage as the main antagonist to an adventure. Haven't thought up
any ideas but if I think of one I'll let everyone know.

Chariot
---
chariot@*******.net
Please visit BearCat Company's ever-expanding (or simply under construction)
home pages!

"BearCat's Home Page" ( http://www.icanect.net/~saeko/,
http://www.icanect.net/~chariot/ )
"Chariot's RPG Page" ( http://www.icanect.net/~chariot/RPG/ )
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"Saeko's Lil' Advices on Making Web Page"
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From:	bqtech1@***.pipeline.com (Andrew W. Ragland)
Subject:	Re: World of Darkness/ShadowRun
Date:	Sat, 30 Mar 1996 08:28:26 -0500

Message no. 3 On Mar 29, 1996 10:57:09, '"Randy Nickel (General)"
<a-randyn@*********.com>' wrote:

>I had mentioned that before that I have had the Idea of combining these
>two worlds and have come up with this.

Has anyone yet mentioned Deird're Brooks' World of Future Darkness article
in WW magazine?

--
Andrew W. Ragland, Product Support Manager, R & M BioMetrics / BioQuant
raglan45@*****.mmc.edu *** bqtech1@***.pipeline.com
GTW @*+(-) s++/+ a c++(++++) G+ y* L e* W !N o+ K w++$ M+ O+$ V+ +PS- +PE-
Y+
PGP @*+ 5@ X+ R+++>$ h---- b+++ r+++
Look then, into thine heart, and write! -- Henry Wadsworth Longfellow,
Voice of the Night, Prelude, Stanza 19

From:	Marizhavashti Kali <xenya@********.com>
Subject:	Re: World of Darkness/ShadowRun
Date:	Sat, 30 Mar 1996 09:09:38 -0800 (PST)

Message no. 4 On Sat, 30 Mar 1996, Andrew W. Ragland wrote:

> Has anyone yet mentioned Deird're Brooks' World of Future Darkness article
> in WW magazine?

No, not really... So, what you propose is we:

Discuss a Cyberpunk 2020/Vampire: The Masquerade crossover on the
Shadowrun list? Hey, I'm all for it. :-) Truth be told, I originally wrote
it to distract my roommates at the time *from* Shadowrun, 'cause I wanted
to play Vampire in the worst way. Then she went and brought her Shadowrun
characters over.

Then the little munchkin wanted to have her Shadowrun Cyberware. Sigh....

Deirdre M. Brooks | xenya@********.com | Marizhavashti Kali
"Whose religion is this?" "It's not a religion, it's a cult."
"Whose cult
is this?" "It's Hubbard's cult, baby." "Who's Hubbard?"
"Hubbard's dead,
baby. Hubbard's dead." -Meme-

From:	Roger Ramirez <chariot@*******.net>
Subject:	Re: World of Darkness/ShadowRun
Date:	Sat, 30 Mar 1996 12:56:25 -0500 (EST)

Message no. 5 At 08:28 AM 3/30/96 -0500, you wrote:
>On Mar 29, 1996 10:57:09, '"Randy Nickel (General)"
><a-randyn@*********.com>' wrote:
>
>>I had mentioned that before that I have had the Idea of combining these
>>two worlds and have come up with this.
>
>Has anyone yet mentioned Deird're Brooks' World of Future Darkness article
>in WW magazine?
>
I don't know who the hell that is but on my web page I have an ariticle that
I have no idea where I found. It describes how to play a M:ta character in SR.

Chariot
---
chariot@*******.net
Please visit BearCat Company's ever-expanding (or simply under construction)
home pages!

"BearCat's Home Page" ( http://www.icanect.net/~saeko/,
http://www.icanect.net/~chariot/ )
"Chariot's RPG Page" ( http://www.icanect.net/~chariot/RPG/ )
"Saeko's Home Page" ( http://www.icanect.net/~saeko/Cat/ )
"Saeko's Lil' Advices on Making Web Page"
( http://www.icanect.net/~saeko/Cat/homepage.htm )

From:	Marizhavashti Kali <xenya@********.com>
Subject:	Re: World of Darkness/ShadowRun
Date:	Sat, 30 Mar 1996 10:28:59 -0800 (PST)

Message no. 6 On Sat, 30 Mar 1996, Roger Ramirez wrote:

> >Has anyone yet mentioned Deird're Brooks' World of Future Darkness article
> >in WW magazine?
> >
> I don't know who the hell that is but on my web page I have an ariticle that
> I have no idea where I found. It describes how to play a M:ta character in SR.

No one of consequence.

Deirdre M. Brooks | xenya@********.com | Marizhavashti Kali
"Whose religion is this?" "It's not a religion, it's a cult."
"Whose cult
is this?" "It's Hubbard's cult, baby." "Who's Hubbard?"
"Hubbard's dead,
baby. Hubbard's dead." -Meme-

From:	"Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject:	Re: World of Darkness/ShadowRun
Date:	Sun, 31 Mar 1996 14:03:20 +0100

Message no. 7 Marizhavashti Kali said on 30 Mar 96...

> Discuss a Cyberpunk 2020/Vampire: The Masquerade crossover on the
> Shadowrun list? Hey, I'm all for it. :-)

I and someone else wrote a V:tM/Shadowrun crossover last year, though we
never made it available to "the public" (yet). This was about a week
before I purchased a WW back issue with one of Deirdre's CP2020/WoD
article in it :)

> Truth be told, I originally wrote
> it to distract my roommates at the time *from* Shadowrun, 'cause I wanted
> to play Vampire in the worst way. Then she went and brought her Shadowrun
> characters over.
>
> Then the little munchkin wanted to have her Shadowrun Cyberware. Sigh....

Just a question: Ivy? (I might be totally wrong here, though...)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Yes, somewhere in the world there is this *one* guy that's coming
up with all these .sigs, and cussing everytime he sees someone
else grab one of them. :) --Joe Cotton
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Character Mortuary: http://huizen.dds.nl/~mortuary/mortuary.html <-

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From:	Marizhavashti Kali <xenya@********.com>
Subject:	Re: World of Darkness/ShadowRun
Date:	Sun, 31 Mar 1996 13:06:48 -0800 (PST)

Message no. 8 On Sun, 31 Mar 1996, Gurth wrote:

> I and someone else wrote a V:tM/Shadowrun crossover last year, though we
> never made it available to "the public" (yet). This was about a week
> before I purchased a WW back issue with one of Deirdre's CP2020/WoD
> article in it :)

Ooh, nifty... I'd love to see it.

Hey, I found my weird Vampire: tM/Shadowrun hybrid crossbreed on my hard
drive. It needs cleaning up, but hey...

> Just a question: Ivy? (I might be totally wrong here, though...)

*koff*

Deird'Re M. Brooks | xenya@********.com | Marizhavashti Kali
"Whose religion is this?" "It's not a religion, it's a cult."
"Whose cult
is this?" "It's Hubbard's cult, baby." "Who's Hubbard?"
"Hubbard's dead,
baby. Hubbard's dead." -Meme-

From:	"Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject:	Re: World of Darkness/ShadowRun
Date:	Mon, 1 Apr 1996 11:52:58 +0100

Message no. 9 Marizhavashti Kali said on 31 Mar 96...

> > I and someone else wrote a V:tM/Shadowrun crossover last year, though we
> > never made it available to "the public" (yet). This was about a week
> > before I purchased a WW back issue with one of Deirdre's CP2020/WoD
> > article in it :)
>
> Ooh, nifty... I'd love to see it.

It's on my HD, but it needs some work before I can post it here, unless
nobody minds non-ASCII characters (don't bother answering that, OK? :) In
the next few days it should appear on the list, but it is a bit of a big
file. I might cut it in half or something.

> Hey, I found my weird Vampire: tM/Shadowrun hybrid crossbreed on my hard
> drive. It needs cleaning up, but hey...

Post it here if you don't mind. I'd like to see how it differs from what
we dreamed up.

> > Just a question: Ivy? (I might be totally wrong here, though...)
>
> *koff*

I take it that means I was right? :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Turning true emotion into digital expression.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Character Mortuary: http://huizen.dds.nl/~mortuary/mortuary.html <-

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From:	Marizhavashti Kali <xenya@********.com>
Subject:	Re: World of Darkness/ShadowRun
Date:	Mon, 1 Apr 1996 03:09:46 -0800 (PST)

Message no. 10 On Mon, 1 Apr 1996, Gurth wrote:

> > Ooh, nifty... I'd love to see it.
>
> It's on my HD, but it needs some work before I can post it here, unless
> nobody minds non-ASCII characters (don't bother answering that, OK? :) In
> the next few days it should appear on the list, but it is a bit of a big
> file. I might cut it in half or something.

Hey, I can wait...

> > Hey, I found my weird Vampire: tM/Shadowrun hybrid crossbreed on my hard
> > drive. It needs cleaning up, but hey...
>
> Post it here if you don't mind. I'd like to see how it differs from what
> we dreamed up.

I will do so...but I have to clean the unwanted alterations out of it.

> > *koff*
>
> I take it that means I was right? :)

I think I have mood poisoning... it must be something I hate.

Deird'Re M. Brooks | xenya@********.com | Marizhavashti Kali
"Whose religion is this?" "It's not a religion, it's a cult."
"Whose cult
is this?" "It's Hubbard's cult, baby." "Who's Hubbard?"
"Hubbard's dead,
baby. Hubbard's dead." -Meme-

From:	Jonas Gabrielson <m94jga@*******.tdb.uu.se>
Subject:	Re: World of Darkness/ShadowRun
Date:	Mon, 1 Apr 1996 14:54:47 +0200 (MET DST)

Message no. 11 On Fri, 29 Mar 1996, Randy Nickel (General) wrote:

> I had mentioned that before that I have had the Idea of combining these
> two worlds and have come up with this.
>
> [Snipped a bit on reules and the WoD in general]

I hope I'm not insulting anyone here, but I would rather play a
combination of these games as a WoD/SR crossover, rather than the other
way around. That is, I'd like to keep the rules and concepts from the
Storyteller games, and just transfer them to a Shadowrun setting. Thus,
I'm more interested in patching together the backgrounds of the worlds,
rather than figuring out a way to convert WoD characters to SR rules.
I've been on this project for more than a year now, but rather
sporadically. I have pasted together things to a small degree, but there
is always more to correct...
If you want to, perhaps I could produce a short break-down of my
basic ideas, and we could discuss this thing, eh?

-Jonas Gabrielson, really a Tzimisce antitribu elder in disguise.

From:	"Randy Nickel (General)" <a-randyn@*********.com>
Subject:	RE: World of Darkness/ShadowRun
Date:	Mon, 1 Apr 1996 14:57:12 -0800

Message no. 12 I hope I'm not insulting anyone here, but I would rather play a
combination of these games as a WoD/SR crossover, rather than the other
way around. That is, I'd like to keep the rules and concepts from the
Storyteller games, and just transfer them to a Shadowrun setting. Thus,
I'm more interested in patching together the backgrounds of the worlds,
rather than figuring out a way to convert WoD characters to SR rules.
I've been on this project for more than a year now, but rather
sporadically. I have pasted together things to a small degree, but
there
is always more to correct...
If you want to, perhaps I could produce a short break-down of my
basic ideas, and we could discuss this thing, eh?

-Jonas Gabrielson, really a Tzimisce antitribu elder in disguise.

I just talked to some friends of mine here and I run ShadowRun on
Sundays and WoD on Saturdays. We all agreed that if we are going to do
this it would be much better to transfer the World of ShadowRun to WoD
rules.

The conversion for going the other way have been too much trouble (ie
everytime someone learns a new gift/discipline we do conversions).

I will put out the History of the CyberFang (according to Randy) at
some point in little groups (say one page at a time) so as to not send
a 12 page file all at once. Actually it would probably be better to
only do it to people that are interested so write me if ya want more
details and I'll make a mail list.

Randy

From:	"Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject:	Re: World of Darkness/ShadowRun
Date:	Tue, 2 Apr 1996 12:05:43 +0100

Message no. 13 Jonas Gabrielson said on 1 Apr 96...

> I hope I'm not insulting anyone here, but I would rather play a
> combination of these games as a WoD/SR crossover, rather than the other
> way around. That is, I'd like to keep the rules and concepts from the
> Storyteller games, and just transfer them to a Shadowrun setting. Thus,
> I'm more interested in patching together the backgrounds of the worlds,
> rather than figuring out a way to convert WoD characters to SR rules.

And also...

> I agree with Gurth here - a WoD/SR crossover should be played with
> Storyteller rules in the Shadowrun setting (as I said earlier). Having a
> group with normal runners intermixing with mages/vampires/werewolves etc.
> is not an option, mostly because the runners still are sleepers (even
> magicians/shamans, IMHO). It would be about as bad as mixing characters
> from different Storyteller games.

This is the opposite of the way we did it. Our reasoning was that you
could use all of SR's rules and stuff with the WoD background if you
converted your character to SR stats (as you can see from the article I
sent to the list). Partly why we did this was because we were more
familiar with SR rules than with the Storyteller system.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Turning true emotion into digital expression.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Character Mortuary: http://huizen.dds.nl/~mortuary/mortuary.html <-

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From:	"Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject:	Re: World of Darkness/Shadowrun
Date:	Tue, 2 Apr 1996 12:05:42 +0100

Message no. 14 Marizhavashti Kali said on 1 Apr 96...

> > It's on my HD, but it needs some work before I can post it here, unless
> > nobody minds non-ASCII characters (don't bother answering that, OK? :) In
> > the next few days it should appear on the list, but it is a bit of a big
> > file. I might cut it in half or something.
>
> Hey, I can wait...

It turned out to be less work than I thought, it only took maybe half a
CD (although some characters might have slipped through -- Word's search
& replace routines couldn't handle Wingdings chars for some reason), so
it should have reached the list by the time you read this...

> > Post it here if you don't mind. I'd like to see how it differs from what
> > we dreamed up.
>
> I will do so...but I have to clean the unwanted alterations out of it.

Hey, I can wait... :)

> > > *koff*
> >
> > I take it that means I was right? :)
>
> I think I have mood poisoning... it must be something I hate.

What, that I'm right? :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Turning true emotion into digital expression.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Character Mortuary: http://huizen.dds.nl/~mortuary/mortuary.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
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Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b+@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

From:	Marizhavashti Kali <xenya@********.com>
Subject:	Re: World of Darkness/Shadowrun
Date:	Tue, 2 Apr 1996 03:58:03 -0800 (PST)

Message no. 15 On Tue, 2 Apr 1996, Gurth wrote:

> > Hey, I can wait...
>
> It turned out to be less work than I thought, it only took maybe half a
> CD (although some characters might have slipped through -- Word's search
> & replace routines couldn't handle Wingdings chars for some reason), so
> it should have reached the list by the time you read this...

Haven't yet seen it, but I still have 60 unread, so...

> > I will do so...but I have to clean the unwanted alterations out of it.
>
> Hey, I can wait... :)

Then again, don't we all?

> > I think I have mood poisoning... it must be something I hate.
>
> What, that I'm right? :)

No, just a suggestion: Never move in with someone you really like.

:-)

Deird'Re M. Brooks | xenya@********.com | Marizhavashti Kali
"Whose religion is this?" "It's not a religion, it's a cult."
"Whose cult
is this?" "It's Hubbard's cult, baby." "Who's Hubbard?"
"Hubbard's dead,
baby. Hubbard's dead." -Meme-

From:	Jonas Gabrielson <m94jga@*******.tdb.uu.se>
Subject:	Re: World of Darkness/ShadowRun
Date:	Tue, 2 Apr 1996 16:08:59 +0200 (MET DST)

Message no. 16 On Tue, 2 Apr 1996, Gurth wrote:

> Jonas Gabrielson said on 1 Apr 96...
>
> > I agree with Gurth here - a WoD/SR crossover should be played with
> > Storyteller rules in the Shadowrun setting (as I said earlier). Having a
> > group with normal runners intermixing with mages/vampires/werewolves etc.
> > is not an option, mostly because the runners still are sleepers (even
> > magicians/shamans, IMHO). It would be about as bad as mixing characters
> > from different Storyteller games.
>
> This is the opposite of the way we did it. Our reasoning was that you
> could use all of SR's rules and stuff with the WoD background if you
> converted your character to SR stats (as you can see from the article I
> sent to the list). Partly why we did this was because we were more
> familiar with SR rules than with the Storyteller system.

Every man to his own, I say. I could quote Aleister Crowley again,
but I won't even though he's right.

This article, however. Where is it? Am I blind, or didn't you send
it? If you have sent it, could you be so kind as to send me a copy on
personal e-mail, since it in that case has disappeared from my mail?

-Jonas Gabrielson, "look! a raspberry yoghurt!"

From:	"Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject:	Re: World of Darkness/ShadowRun
Date:	Wed, 3 Apr 1996 12:58:53 +0100

Message no. 17 Jonas Gabrielson said on 2 Apr 96...

> This article, however. Where is it? Am I blind, or didn't you send
> it? If you have sent it, could you be so kind as to send me a copy on
> personal e-mail, since it in that case has disappeared from my mail?

Although I have heard of blind people reading and writing mail, I don't
think you're one of them. Yesterday afternoon I sent the article to the
list, as a plain-text attachment to a short message. It hasn't appeared
back in my mailbox yet, over 24 hours later.

This could be due to Majordomo's way of handling mails (I read Rob
Watkins' reply to FL's Rolling Stone post a few minutes ago, while I'll
probably only get to read the original the next time I check my mail), or
it could be because of the size, which I said in another message is 45.7
kb.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Turning true emotion into digital expression.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Character Mortuary: http://huizen.dds.nl/~mortuary/mortuary.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
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Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b+@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
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From:	"Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject:	Re: World of Darkness/Shadowrun
Date:	Wed, 3 Apr 1996 12:58:53 +0100

Message no. 18 Marizhavashti Kali said on 2 Apr 96...

> > It turned out to be less work than I thought, it only took maybe half a
> > CD (although some characters might have slipped through -- Word's search
> > & replace routines couldn't handle Wingdings chars for some reason), so
> > it should have reached the list by the time you read this...
>
> Haven't yet seen it, but I still have 60 unread, so...

I haven't seen it either, which is somewhat strange because I have seen
mails I sent out half a day later. It may have something to do with the
file size [opens various windows until he gets to c:\shadowrun] which is
45.7 kilobytes in plain .txt format. If it still hasn't appeared tomorrow
I'll chop it into three or four pieces and paste it into separate
messages...

> > Hey, I can wait... :)
>
> Then again, don't we all?

For the moment, sure. But when people start telling me again to get a job,
well...

> No, just a suggestion: Never move in with someone you really like.
>
> :-)

No worries there... I'd first have to find someone I really like anyway...
(Any candidates? No? Why doesn't that surprise me? :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Turning true emotion into digital expression.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Character Mortuary: http://huizen.dds.nl/~mortuary/mortuary.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b+@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

From:	Marizhavashti Kali <xenya@********.com>
Subject:	Re: World of Darkness/Shadowrun
Date:	Thu, 4 Apr 1996 03:46:16 -0800 (PST)

Message no. 19 On Wed, 3 Apr 1996, Gurth wrote:

> > Haven't yet seen it, but I still have 60 unread, so...
>
> I haven't seen it either, which is somewhat strange because I have seen
> mails I sent out half a day later. It may have something to do with the
> file size [opens various windows until he gets to c:\shadowrun] which is
> 45.7 kilobytes in plain .txt format. If it still hasn't appeared tomorrow
> I'll chop it into three or four pieces and paste it into separate
> messages...

Cool. :)

> > Then again, don't we all?
>
> For the moment, sure. But when people start telling me again to get a job,
> well...

I know that feeling.

> No worries there... I'd first have to find someone I really like anyway...
> (Any candidates? No? Why doesn't that surprise me? :)

Only if it means I don't have to move in with you. :-)

Deird'Re M. Brooks | xenya@********.com | Marizhavashti Kali
"Whose religion is this?" "It's not a religion, it's a cult."
"Whose cult
is this?" "It's Hubbard's cult, baby." "Who's Hubbard?"
"Hubbard's dead,
baby. Hubbard's dead." -Meme-

From:	"Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject:	Re: World of Darkness/Shadowrun
Date:	Fri, 5 Apr 1996 10:13:24 +0100

Message no. 20 Marizhavashti Kali said on 4 Apr 96...

> > I'll chop it into three or four pieces and paste it into separate
> > messages...
>
> Cool. :)

I just sent that out, so now everything should be going fine... I guess
I'll know tomorrow morning.

> > For the moment, sure. But when people start telling me again to get a job,
> > well...
>
> I know that feeling.

So you're living off a government, too? :)

> > No worries there... I'd first have to find someone I really like anyway...
> > (Any candidates? No? Why doesn't that surprise me? :)
>
> Only if it means I don't have to move in with you. :-)

Not much of a chance anyway -- I'd immediately fall under a social
benefits revision if my living conditions change, and I'd rather avoid
that, thankyouverymuch...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
You need us to run your life.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Character Mortuary: http://huizen.dds.nl/~mortuary/mortuary.html <-

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From:	Tzeentch tzeentch666@*********.net
Subject:	World of Darkness: Shadowrun
Date:	Wed, 23 Feb 2000 18:01:16 -0800

Message no. 21 First off, thanks to everyone for all the feedback for the military
sourcebook, I'm quite excited to be working on it knowing it will at least
get feedback (and lack of feedback kills more net.projects then anything
else).

On another front, myself and Guru have been working on a World of Darkness
conversion (when the net connection holds out!). I was just wondering how
many people would like to see such a conversion become a full fledged
net.book?

We have the core mechanics of Mage down pat (I'm working on the text now
along with some VGTTS stuff) and Vampire looks easy except for some major
game-imbalancing powers like 'Blur of the Milky Eye'.

These conversions are NOT direct conversions per se. Instead we kept as many
concepts and mechanics as we could, ditched a lot of the dross, and have
been making every effort to seamlessly integrate it into a normal Shadowrun
game (i.e. discuss differences betweem "True" WW Vampires and the
HMVV-infected "pretenders")

The actual rules are a bit different for game balance, sanity, and fit with
Shadowrun (i.e. M:TAs concepts of consensual reality had to be altered in
order to keep them from throwing vulgar magick everywhere in SR).

This will run down the base concepts, the actual text is still being
written.

Mage: The Ascension
Conversion Core Concepts
1. Karma = Quintessence. Not a direct conversion obviously, but this idea
has drive both the Vampire and Mage conversion. It fits perfectly, and makes
many things MUCH easier to grasp.
2. Arete and Sphere levels are "Edges". True Mages have tp pick Priority A
for Magic but get 0 Spell Points. Instead they get those 25 points as 'Edge
Points' they can use to buy abilities such as Arete, Strong Avatar, and
their Sphere levels. We ditched some of the lamest M:TA backgrounds like
Dream and Destiny (at least for now).
3. Ability in a Sphere is determined by Sphere Skill. In this I took a que
from GURPS Mage. This skill is linked to Arete for advancement. Each Sphere
Skill is separate. When you raise you Sphere Rating you lose some Sphere
Skill to represent the next step in understanding (and help cut down on
cheese).
4. Rotes are knowledge skills linked to Intelligence that function as
complimentary skills in performing magickal effects dealing with the Rote
itself. These are not reduced when you raise Sphere Ratings.

For example, a starting Mage with 25 points could buy Arete 3 and 5 points
of Sphere Rating points. Let's say he picks Forces 3 and Mind 2 (remember no
Sphere can be higher then your Arete). He then puts, say, 6 points of skill
in each. This would be recorded as Forces-6 (3) and Mind-6 (2). You use the
Rating to determine what you know, the Skill determines what you can DO with
that.

5. Attacking with Spheres will be given more detail. For example a plain
Forces attack will be a physical effect (lightning, fireball, etc). But give
it some Spirit and it will bypass armor, Entropy will affect machines
greatly (giving Stress Points or forcing a Break Test), etc. Obviously even
then the GM will be in charge of everything since Mage magick is not linear
like Shadowrun hedge magic is.
6. NO Spheres over 5. No "Masters of the Art" or any of that stuff. Good
luck getting high Arete either, it's intentionally hard to advance - the
same will be in effect for Vampire Disciplines.
7. Your max Quintessence storage is equal to Avatar Rating + Prime Sphere
Rating. Your Avatar Rating is equal to your Essence plus any levels of
Strong Avatar.
8. Paradox pretty much works the same way, but the definitions of "static"
and "vulgar" magick are different (to mesh it with the hedge wizards and
dragons flying around).
9. Spirits work like in Shadowrun, we'll try to convert as many Gifts as
possible to Critter Powers.
10. The Umbra has different nomenclature. The Near Umbra is the normal
astral. The Far Umbra is the metaplanes (also the Horizon realms have been
moved there). The Deep Umbra is still space but inhabited by Things Man Was
Not Meant To Know that creep and slither in the endless void. Locked out by
the Gauntlet. Alternately we'll move the Horrors and the Nephandic creatures
to the far metaplanes and note that the "wall" to the metaplanes is very
strong at the moment. The cosmology is the most difficult to reconcile since
the WW version is one big hodgepodge.
11. The Gauntlet is the "membrane" between the astral and physical world.
We're working on this one, but it's important for "stepping sideways" and
the like.
12. Nodes will probably = areas with background count.
13. Effort will be made to explain SR magic in terms of Mage. It actually
makes a lot of sense, anyones who read Mage could probably fit SR in there
somewhere...
14. Magickal effects are rolled with appropriate Sphere Skills vs GM set TN.
If using multiple Spheres (conjunctional) then use the LOWEST Skill of all
the Spheres being used. Effects are calculated pretty much just like in
M:TA. Very freeform.
15. Players can have their characters "Awaken" during a campaign but it will
be both VERY expensive and will result in the character starting over in
some areas. But it can be done.
16. No specific Traditions or Orders!!! The Traditions, Technocracy,
Nephandi, etc still are in the game but they are much more generalized. The
Technocracy is not the Big Badguy in this, they are another path of Mages
dedicated to defending true reality from deviants like the Traditions and
Nephandi.

Vampire: The Masquerade
Conversion Core Concepts
1. The Clans are just overall groupings. No "character classes" in this
conversion but they will probably still be important (if just as templates).
2. The Sabbat was wiped out shortly after the Sixth World kicked off - they
were too obvious for their own good.
3. The Vampires still have Gehenna approaching (Horrors?) but they are not
the super-manipulators controlling mankind they are in WW. Even Celerity
won't stop a Firelance laser from turning you into Vampire stir-fry.
4. As much as possible the Disciplines are taken for their closest
equivalents in adept powers or cyberware. This actually works pretty well
except for the truly wierd (Blur of the Milky Eye).
5. Vampires drain Essence but it's NOT permament. They transform the persons
Quintessence into his blood then drink the blood. Essentially a mystical
distillation process (very important in the Mage crossover!!!!)
6. Vampires get nothing from drinking blood without Quint. And Quint in
blood 'seeps" into surrounding reality once removed from a life pattern.
This also ties in with SR rules for how long you can get a mystic
connection.... This also makes sure Vamps HAVE to hunt, and not just
maintain a Blood Bank as a day job. Even if you freeze it the Quint still
seeps out. Since Quintessence=Karma=Essence it helps in the conversion
process and integration. This also makes the explanation of how spirits get
your Karma easier to understand.
7. Vampire Blood Points are treated as Tass!! Thus this makes Vamps VERY
leery of True Mages who would like nothing more then getting a Vamp and
using it as an organic battery. It also lets Mages and Vamps cooperate (the
Mages using the vamp as a "still" to get cheap Quintessence).
8. True Vampires HATE the upstart virus-infected versions that have brought
so much trouble on the True Vampires.
9. Cain is still a mystery, as are the Antedilluvians. But imagine if Cain
and friends were actually Horror Constructs...now imagine they are unwitting
Horror agents, sent in like a plague... Now imagine the Blood Mages have
connections to the True Vampires... <cue X-Files theme>

Other Notes
1. Nephandi will have NEGATIVE (Qlippothic) Essence/Quintessence. Makes who
developed cybermancy pretty clear eh? ;)
2. Conversions from White Wolf to this system will be given
3. No plans for Wraith or (god forbid) Changeling are planned (mainly
because we don't both have the books).
4. Werewolf will be done but it will be GM Beware! The Gifts of Werewolves
can quickly turn any game on its head.

Any other ideas on the crossover?

Thanks!

Ken
---------------------------
There's a war out there, old friend, a world war. And it's not about who's
got the most bullets, it's about who controls the information. What we see
and hear, how we work, what we think, it's all about the information!
Cosmo, 'Sneakers'

From:	Dominic Robertson nightwinder@*********.com
Subject:	World of Darkness: Shadowrun
Date:	Thu, 24 Feb 2000 23:02:18 +1100

Message no. 22 --------------E9389F35183AE77905196C9E
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Tzeentch wrote:

> First off, thanks to everyone for all the feedback for the military
> sourcebook, I'm quite excited to be working on it knowing it will at least
> get feedback (and lack of feedback kills more net.projects then anything
> else).
>
> On another front, myself and Guru have been working on a World of Darkness
> conversion (when the net connection holds out!). I was just wondering how
> many people would like to see such a conversion become a full fledged
> net.book?
>
> We have the core mechanics of Mage down pat (I'm working on the text now
> along with some VGTTS stuff) and Vampire looks easy except for some major
> game-imbalancing powers like 'Blur of the Milky Eye'.
>
> These conversions are NOT direct conversions per se. Instead we kept as many
> concepts and mechanics as we could, ditched a lot of the dross, and have
> been making every effort to seamlessly integrate it into a normal Shadowrun
> game (i.e. discuss differences betweem "True" WW Vampires and the
> HMVV-infected "pretenders")
>
> The actual rules are a bit different for game balance, sanity, and fit with
> Shadowrun (i.e. M:TAs concepts of consensual reality had to be altered in
> order to keep them from throwing vulgar magick everywhere in SR).
>
> This will run down the base concepts, the actual text is still being
> written.
>
> Mage: The Ascension
> Conversion Core Concepts
> 1. Karma = Quintessence. Not a direct conversion obviously, but this idea
> has drive both the Vampire and Mage conversion. It fits perfectly, and makes
> many things MUCH easier to grasp.
> 2. Arete and Sphere levels are "Edges". True Mages have tp pick Priority A
> for Magic but get 0 Spell Points. Instead they get those 25 points as 'Edge
> Points' they can use to buy abilities such as Arete, Strong Avatar, and
> their Sphere levels. We ditched some of the lamest M:TA backgrounds like
> Dream and Destiny (at least for now).
> 3. Ability in a Sphere is determined by Sphere Skill. In this I took a que
> from GURPS Mage. This skill is linked to Arete for advancement. Each Sphere
> Skill is separate. When you raise you Sphere Rating you lose some Sphere
> Skill to represent the next step in understanding (and help cut down on
> cheese).
> 4. Rotes are knowledge skills linked to Intelligence that function as
> complimentary skills in performing magickal effects dealing with the Rote
> itself. These are not reduced when you raise Sphere Ratings.
> 5. Attacking with Spheres will be given more detail. For example a plain
> Forces attack will be a physical effect (lightning, fireball, etc). But give
> it some Spirit and it will bypass armor, Entropy will affect machines
> greatly (giving Stress Points or forcing a Break Test), etc. Obviously even
> then the GM will be in charge of everything since Mage magick is not linear
> like Shadowrun hedge magic is.
> 6. NO Spheres over 5. No "Masters of the Art" or any of that stuff. Good
> luck getting high Arete either, it's intentionally hard to advance - the
> same will be in effect for Vampire Disciplines.
> 7. Your max Quintessence storage is equal to Avatar Rating + Prime Sphere
> Rating. Your Avatar Rating is equal to your Essence plus any levels of
> Strong Avatar.
> 8. Paradox pretty much works the same way, but the definitions of "static"
> and "vulgar" magick are different (to mesh it with the hedge wizards and
> dragons flying around).
> 9. Spirits work like in Shadowrun, we'll try to convert as many Gifts as
> possible to Critter Powers.
> 10. The Umbra has different nomenclature. The Near Umbra is the normal
> astral. The Far Umbra is the metaplanes (also the Horizon realms have been
> moved there). The Deep Umbra is still space but inhabited by Things Man Was
> Not Meant To Know that creep and slither in the endless void. Locked out by
> the Gauntlet. Alternately we'll move the Horrors and the Nephandic creatures
> to the far metaplanes and note that the "wall" to the metaplanes is very
> strong at the moment. The cosmology is the most difficult to reconcile since
> the WW version is one big hodgepodge.
> 11. The Gauntlet is the "membrane" between the astral and physical world.
> We're working on this one, but it's important for "stepping sideways" and
> the like.
> 12. Nodes will probably = areas with background count.
> 13. Effort will be made to explain SR magic in terms of Mage. It actually
> makes a lot of sense, anyones who read Mage could probably fit SR in there
> somewhere...
> 14. Magickal effects are rolled with appropriate Sphere Skills vs GM set TN.
> If using multiple Spheres (conjunctional) then use the LOWEST Skill of all
> the Spheres being used. Effects are calculated pretty much just like in
> M:TA. Very freeform.
> 15. Players can have their characters "Awaken" during a campaign but it
will
> be both VERY expensive and will result in the character starting over in
> some areas. But it can be done.
> 16. No specific Traditions or Orders!!! The Traditions, Technocracy,
> Nephandi, etc still are in the game but they are much more generalized. The
> Technocracy is not the Big Badguy in this, they are another path of Mages
> dedicated to defending true reality from deviants like the Traditions and
> Nephandi.

Sounds good, but the nifty ol' Deep Umbra doesn't get you the mega background
count must make 80,000 successes to survive kind of trick.

> Vampire: The Masquerade
> Conversion Core Concepts
> 1. The Clans are just overall groupings. No "character classes" in this
> conversion but they will probably still be important (if just as templates).
> 2. The Sabbat was wiped out shortly after the Sixth World kicked off - they
> were too obvious for their own good.
> 3. The Vampires still have Gehenna approaching (Horrors?) but they are not
> the super-manipulators controlling mankind they are in WW. Even Celerity
> won't stop a Firelance laser from turning you into Vampire stir-fry.
> 4. As much as possible the Disciplines are taken for their closest
> equivalents in adept powers or cyberware. This actually works pretty well
> except for the truly wierd (Blur of the Milky Eye).

Blur of the Milky Eye is a Ragabash Gift (Werewolf) and is basically a low-grade
version of Invisibility. You're probably talking about Obfuscate, which would
be treated as a Mask/Invisibility cross. Most Disciplines would probably be
closer in conversion to regular spells mind you. Protean, Dominate, Obfuscate,
Celerity, Fortitude etc. are equivalent to the self-only version of Transform
(forget the name), Influence/Control Mind, Invisibility/Mask, Increased Reflexes
+1/2/3, Armour/Barrier. You get the idea.

> 5. Vampires drain Essence but it's NOT permament. They transform the persons
> Quintessence into his blood then drink the blood. Essentially a mystical
> distillation process (very important in the Mage crossover!!!!)
> 6. Vampires get nothing from drinking blood without Quint. And Quint in
> blood 'seeps" into surrounding reality once removed from a life pattern.
> This also ties in with SR rules for how long you can get a mystic
> connection.... This also makes sure Vamps HAVE to hunt, and not just
> maintain a Blood Bank as a day job. Even if you freeze it the Quint still
> seeps out. Since Quintessence=Karma=Essence it helps in the conversion
> process and integration. This also makes the explanation of how spirits get
> your Karma easier to understand.
> 7. Vampire Blood Points are treated as Tass!! Thus this makes Vamps VERY
> leery of True Mages who would like nothing more then getting a Vamp and
> using it as an organic battery. It also lets Mages and Vamps cooperate (the
> Mages using the vamp as a "still" to get cheap Quintessence).
> 8. True Vampires HATE the upstart virus-infected versions that have brought
> so much trouble on the True Vampires.
> 9. Cain is still a mystery, as are the Antedilluvians. But imagine if Cain
> and friends were actually Horror Constructs...now imagine they are unwitting
> Horror agents, sent in like a plague... Now imagine the Blood Mages have
> connections to the True Vampires... <cue X-Files theme>

What about Lillith then? Maker of Caine and his final enemy, Lady of the Night,
beloved of Lucifer etc. (Hehe, got Revelations of the Dark Mother). And what
are the Inconnu doing (Read vampire Illuminati for you strange, uneducated
folks)

> Other Notes
> 1. Nephandi will have NEGATIVE (Qlippothic) Essence/Quintessence. Makes who
> developed cybermancy pretty clear eh? ;)
> 2. Conversions from White Wolf to this system will be given
> 3. No plans for Wraith or (god forbid) Changeling are planned (mainly
> because we don't both have the books).
> 4. Werewolf will be done but it will be GM Beware! The Gifts of Werewolves
> can quickly turn any game on its head.
>
> Any other ideas on the crossover?

The bonuses of the Changing Breeds you could do as a straight conversion,
however the Gifts would be a little tricky in some cases, although most would be
fairly easy. If you want me to help with any of the werewolf stuff, contact me
at nightwinder.geo@*****.com

> Thanks!
>
> Ken
> ---------------------------
> There's a war out there, old friend, a world war. And it's not about who's
> got the most bullets, it's about who controls the information. What we see
> and hear, how we work, what we think, it's all about the information!
> Cosmo, 'Sneakers'

--------------E9389F35183AE77905196C9E
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
Tzeentch wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>First off, thanks to everyone for all the feedback
for the military
 sourcebook, I'm quite excited to be working on it knowing it will at
least
 get feedback (and lack of feedback kills more net.projects then anything
 else).
On another front, myself and Guru have been working on a World of Darkness
 conversion (when the net connection holds out!). I was just wondering
how
 many people would like to see such a conversion become a full fledged
 net.book?
We have the core mechanics of Mage down pat (I'm working on the text
now
 along with some VGTTS stuff) and Vampire looks easy except for some
major
 game-imbalancing powers like 'Blur of the Milky Eye'.
These conversions are NOT direct conversions per se. Instead we kept
as many
 concepts and mechanics as we could, ditched a lot of the dross, and
have
 been making every effort to seamlessly integrate it into a normal Shadowrun
 game (i.e. discuss differences betweem "True" WW Vampires and the
 HMVV-infected "pretenders")
The actual rules are a bit different for game balance, sanity, and fit
with
 Shadowrun (i.e. M:TAs concepts of consensual reality had to be altered
in
 order to keep them from throwing vulgar magick everywhere in SR).
This will run down the base concepts, the actual text is still being
 written.
Mage: The Ascension
 Conversion Core Concepts
 1. Karma = Quintessence. Not a direct conversion obviously, but this
idea
 has drive both the Vampire and Mage conversion. It fits perfectly,
and makes
 many things MUCH easier to grasp.
 2. Arete and Sphere levels are "Edges". True Mages have tp pick
Priority
A
 for Magic but get 0 Spell Points. Instead they get those 25 points
as 'Edge
 Points' they can use to buy abilities such as Arete, Strong Avatar,
and
 their Sphere levels. We ditched some of the lamest M:TA backgrounds
like
 Dream and Destiny (at least for now).
 3. Ability in a Sphere is determined by Sphere Skill. In this I took
a que
 from GURPS Mage. This skill is linked to Arete for advancement. Each
Sphere
 Skill is separate. When you raise you Sphere Rating you lose some Sphere
 Skill to represent the next step in understanding (and help cut down
on
 cheese).
 4. Rotes are knowledge skills linked to Intelligence that function
as
 complimentary skills in performing magickal effects dealing with the
Rote
 itself. These are not reduced when you raise Sphere Ratings.
 5. Attacking with Spheres will be given more detail. For example a
plain
 Forces attack will be a physical effect (lightning, fireball, etc).
But give
 it some Spirit and it will bypass armor, Entropy will affect machines
 greatly (giving Stress Points or forcing a Break Test), etc. Obviously
even
 then the GM will be in charge of everything since Mage magick is not
linear
 like Shadowrun hedge magic is.
 6. NO Spheres over 5. No "Masters of the Art" or any of that stuff.
Good
 luck getting high Arete either, it's intentionally hard to advance
- the
 same will be in effect for Vampire Disciplines.
 7. Your max Quintessence storage is equal to Avatar Rating + Prime
Sphere
 Rating. Your Avatar Rating is equal to your Essence plus any levels
of
 Strong Avatar.
 8. Paradox pretty much works the same way, but the definitions of
"static"
 and "vulgar" magick are different (to mesh it with the hedge wizards
and
 dragons flying around).
 9. Spirits work like in Shadowrun, we'll try to convert as many Gifts
as
 possible to Critter Powers.
 10. The Umbra has different nomenclature. The Near Umbra is the normal
 astral. The Far Umbra is the metaplanes (also the Horizon realms have
been
 moved there). The Deep Umbra is still space but inhabited by Things
Man Was
 Not Meant To Know that creep and slither in the endless void. Locked
out by
 the Gauntlet. Alternately we'll move the Horrors and the Nephandic
creatures
 to the far metaplanes and note that the "wall" to the metaplanes is
very
 strong at the moment. The cosmology is the most difficult to reconcile
since
 the WW version is one big hodgepodge.
 11. The Gauntlet is the "membrane" between the astral and physical
world.
 We're working on this one, but it's important for "stepping sideways"
and
 the like.
 12. Nodes will probably = areas with background count.
 13. Effort will be made to explain SR magic in terms of Mage. It actually
 makes a lot of sense, anyones who read Mage could probably fit SR in
there
 somewhere...
 14. Magickal effects are rolled with appropriate Sphere Skills vs GM
set TN.
 If using multiple Spheres (conjunctional) then use the LOWEST Skill
of all
 the Spheres being used. Effects are calculated pretty much just like
in
 M:TA. Very freeform.
 15. Players can have their characters "Awaken" during a campaign but
it will
 be both VERY expensive and will result in the character starting over
in
 some areas. But it can be done.
 16. No specific Traditions or Orders!!! The Traditions, Technocracy,
 Nephandi, etc still are in the game but they are much more generalized.
The
 Technocracy is not the Big Badguy in this, they are another path of
Mages
 dedicated to defending true reality from deviants like the Traditions
and
 Nephandi.</blockquote>
Sounds good, but the nifty ol' Deep Umbra doesn't get you the mega background
count must make 80,000 successes to survive kind of trick.
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>Vampire: The Masquerade
 Conversion Core Concepts
 1. The Clans are just overall groupings. No "character classes" in
this
 conversion but they will probably still be important (if just as templates).
 2. The Sabbat was wiped out shortly after the Sixth World kicked off
- they
 were too obvious for their own good.
 3. The Vampires still have Gehenna approaching (Horrors?) but they
are not
 the super-manipulators controlling mankind they are in WW. Even Celerity
 won't stop a Firelance laser from turning you into Vampire stir-fry.
 4. As much as possible the Disciplines are taken for their closest
 equivalents in adept powers or cyberware. This actually works pretty
well
 except for the truly wierd (Blur of the Milky Eye).</blockquote>
Blur of the Milky Eye is a Ragabash Gift (Werewolf) and is basically a
low-grade version of Invisibility.  You're probably talking about
Obfuscate, which would be treated as a Mask/Invisibility cross.  Most
Disciplines would probably be closer in conversion to regular spells mind
you.  Protean, Dominate, Obfuscate, Celerity, Fortitude etc. are equivalent
to the self-only version of Transform (forget the name), Influence/Control
Mind, Invisibility/Mask, Increased Reflexes +1/2/3, Armour/Barrier. 
You get the idea.
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>5. Vampires drain Essence but it's NOT permament.
They transform the persons
 Quintessence into his blood then drink the blood. Essentially a mystical
 distillation process (very important in the Mage crossover!!!!)
 6. Vampires get nothing from drinking blood without Quint. And Quint
in
 blood 'seeps" into surrounding reality once removed from a life pattern.
 This also ties in with SR rules for how long you can get a mystic
 connection.... This also makes sure Vamps HAVE to hunt, and not just
 maintain a Blood Bank as a day job. Even if you freeze it the Quint
still
 seeps out. Since Quintessence=Karma=Essence it helps in the conversion
 process and integration. This also makes the explanation of how spirits
get
 your Karma easier to understand.
 7. Vampire Blood Points are treated as Tass!! Thus this makes Vamps
VERY
 leery of True Mages who would like nothing more then getting a Vamp
and
 using it as an organic battery. It also lets Mages and Vamps cooperate
(the
 Mages using the vamp as a "still" to get cheap Quintessence).
 8. True Vampires HATE the upstart virus-infected versions that have
brought
 so much trouble on the True Vampires.
 9. Cain is still a mystery, as are the Antedilluvians. But imagine
if Cain
 and friends were actually Horror Constructs...now imagine they are
unwitting
 Horror agents, sent in like a plague... Now imagine the Blood Mages
have
 connections to the True Vampires... <cue X-Files
theme></blockquote>
What about Lillith then?  Maker of Caine and his final enemy, Lady
of the Night, beloved of Lucifer etc. (Hehe, got Revelations of the Dark
Mother).  And what are the Inconnu doing (Read vampire Illuminati
for you strange, uneducated folks)
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>Other Notes
 1. Nephandi will have NEGATIVE (Qlippothic) Essence/Quintessence. Makes
who
 developed cybermancy pretty clear eh? ;)
 2. Conversions from White Wolf to this system will be given
 3. No plans for Wraith or (god forbid) Changeling are planned (mainly
 because we don't both have the books).
 4. Werewolf will be done but it will be GM Beware! The Gifts of Werewolves
 can quickly turn any game on its head.
Any other ideas on the crossover?</blockquote>
The bonuses of the Changing Breeds you could do as a straight conversion,
however the Gifts would be a little tricky in some cases, although most
would be fairly easy.  If you want me to help with any of the werewolf
stuff, contact me at <a
href="mailto:nightwinder.geo@*****.com">nightwinder.geo@*****.com</a>
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>Thanks!
Ken
 ---------------------------
 There's a war out there, old friend, a world war.  And it's not
about who's
 got the most bullets, it's about who controls the information. 
What we see
 and hear, how we  work, what we think, it's all about the 
information!
      Cosmo, 'Sneakers'</blockquote>

  
  </html>

--------------E9389F35183AE77905196C9E--

From:	Guru gburus@***.univ.szczecin.pl
Subject:	World of Darkness: Shadowrun
Date:	Fri, 25 Feb 2000 09:02:15 +0100 (MET)

Message no. 23 On Thu, 24 Feb 2000, it was written:

> Greetings,
> I would be highly interested in assisting in this project - if
> you will have me. Still trying to upgrade my SR books to 3rd Ed (Hastings
> is back-ordered on that one. <sighs>), but I have access to almost all of
> the World of Darkness systems - including Wraith and Changeling, but
> excluding Hunter (Sucks according to me - no offense intended for those who
> like it.).
>
> As a side-note, I am working on a conversion of WhiteWolf's
> Aberrant RPG into SR terms. Making the Novas very rare, but occurring as
> one of the technological evolutions of metahumanity. Seems like fun to me
> and my little (only 2 others) group.
>
> Yours in Truth,
> - Michael R. Papas
You're welcome. And to all those enraged ;) by me posting this on list, I
must say my mailer doesn't recognize e-addresses like that @****.com ;)
So, if you are still interested,mail me or Tzeentch and please, this tiem
with correct e-address. Any to anyone interested with participating in
this project, you're welcome too. The more the better.

Thanks for your cooperation. Wait for warbots and hail OUR
BENEVOLENT AND MAGNIFICIENT COMPUTER.

--
Best regards
Guru

This site is about Shadowrun RPG
http://www.stuco.uni-oldenburg.de/~james

From:	Daniel S Clark ;951;icsg1; dsc7420@**.rit.edu
Subject:	World of Darkness: Shadowrun
Date:	Fri, 25 Feb 2000 13:51:20 -0500 (EST)

Message no. 24 > 8. Paradox pretty much works the same way, but the definitions of "static"
> and "vulgar" magick are different (to mesh it with the hedge wizards and
> dragons flying around).

I had thought about integrating mages into my Shadowrun game at one point.
My idea was that since vulgar magic violates the 'rules' of the world, and
the 'rule' of magic is that you take drain, the mages would either suffer
drain or paradox, their choice.

--Fanguad

From:	Daniel S Clark ;951;icsg1; dsc7420@**.rit.edu
Subject:	World of Darkness: Shadowrun
Date:	Fri, 25 Feb 2000 15:44:32 -0500 (EST)

Message no. 25 > excluding Hunter (Sucks according to me - no offense intended for those who
> like it.).

Well, ever since I heard of it's existence (or rather the existence of
supermunch humans who can go toe-to-toe with a Werewolf and win), I've
been a fan.

(Big fan of WW mechanics, not a big fan of average power level)

--Fanguad

From:	Patrick Goodman remo@***.net
Subject:	World of Darkness: Shadowrun
Date:	Fri, 25 Feb 2000 18:37:13 -0600

Message no. 26 From: Daniel S Clark
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2000 12:51 PM

> > 8. Paradox pretty much works the same way, but the definitions of
> > "static" and "vulgar" magick are different (to mesh it with
the
> > hedge wizards and dragons flying around).
>
> I had thought about integrating mages into my Shadowrun game at one point.
> My idea was that since vulgar magic violates the 'rules' of the world, and
> the 'rule' of magic is that you take drain, the mages would either suffer
> drain or paradox, their choice.

It's not quite what you're trying to do, but it might lend you a hand on how
to integrate things story-wise: Have you looked at the article "World of
Shadow" on Steve Kenson's site? It's at
http://members.aol.com/talonmail/articles.html and can be found about 2/3 of
the way down the page.

--
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.

From:	Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject:	World of Darkness: Shadowrun
Date:	Sat, 26 Feb 2000 11:59:35 +0100

Message no. 27 According to Daniel S Clark ;951;icsg1;, at 13:51 on 25 Feb 00, the word
on the street was...

> > 8. Paradox pretty much works the same way, but the definitions of
"static"
> > and "vulgar" magick are different (to mesh it with the hedge wizards
and
> > dragons flying around).
>
> I had thought about integrating mages into my Shadowrun game at one point.
> My idea was that since vulgar magic violates the 'rules' of the world, and
> the 'rule' of magic is that you take drain, the mages would either suffer
> drain or paradox, their choice.

IMHO, the "rules" for what cause paradox would be much more relaxed. After
all, everyone _knows_ there are people around who can create fireballs out
of thin air without breaking a sweat, so that kind of vulgar magick
wouldn't cause too many problems (I'd say you wouldn't even suffer Drain),
but doing things that "everyone knows" are impossible with SR-style magic
(like teleportation, speeding up time, creating a computer from nothing,
etc.) would cause paradox as normal.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Because there are no stories about romance, no fairy-tale endings. Before
you run out and change the world, ask yourself, what do you really want?
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ UL P L+ E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

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