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Message no. 1
From: "Bill P. Flint" <claymore@******.DIGEX.NET>
Subject: Wraiths
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 1994 02:24:07 -0400
I getting very tired about people trying to find a way to kill or destory
Wraiths. So I'm going to give a few suggestions on how to survive an encounter
with a Wraith, but people don't usually meet Wraiths directly.

1) You see a Wraith. Leave. Very quicknly (run).
2) You see a Wraith and you have a handy weapon foci. attack with the weapon
foci and roll alot of successes. A Wraith is a spirit and spirits get zippo
for armor against weapons foci.
3) Same as 2 but with a physical adept with killinh hands. Once again the
wraith has no armor.
4) Multiple attacks by people that can do 2 and/or 3.
5, this is the hard one) Get the wraith to cast a spell with a force higher
than it force. It goes by free spirit rules and when a free spirit cast a spell
higher than if force it instant dyes. No question asked.
6) The most sure fire way is to assualt from all planes:
mages, elementals, spirits from astral.
Street Samurai's, riggers with big guns.
physical adepts with weapons foci or killing hands from physical or
mundane.

By the only why I think a single person can defeat a Wraith is a person with a
weapon foci.

That my suggestions.

--Bi..l.ay.more
Message no. 2
From: wadycki andrew m <wadycki@***.CSO.UIUC.EDU>
Subject: wraiths
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 1994 11:58:16 -0600
I was rereading the Earthdawn "How it came to pass" and noticed that they
said the first horrors to come were wraithlike things that caused
violence and hatred. This is the description of the wraiths from
Paranormal Europe. Also, did anyone ever do the SR adventure Bottled
Demon? The bottle is suppose to be linked to some metaplane or
something, but the way it does things, I think it could be a horror item,
and they mentioned it was stolen from the Tir. Interesting plot points
could be picked up from all this, if you are playing with a ED/SR
campaign merge.
-Andrew
Message no. 3
From: Gurth <gurth@***.NL>
Subject: Re: wraiths
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 1994 21:37:29 +0100
Gurth@***.nl | GEEK CODE (v2.1): GS/AT/! -d+ H s:- !g P?(3) !au
21st century digital boy | !a>? w+(+++) v*(---) C+(++) U P? !L !3 E? N++ K-
I don't know how to live | W+ -po+(po) Y+ t(+) 5 !j R+(++)>+++$ tv+(++) b+@
But I got a lot of toys | D+(++) B? e+ u+@ h! f--(?) !r(--)(*) n---->!n y?


> Paranormal Europe. Also, did anyone ever do the SR adventure Bottled
> Demon? The bottle is suppose to be linked to some metaplane or
> something, but the way it does things, I think it could be a horror item,
> and they mentioned it was stolen from the Tir. Interesting plot points
> could be picked up from all this, if you are playing with a ED/SR
> campaign merge.

I just finished something like that. I bought Bottled Demon (not one of
the best SR adventures, IMHO), and built this ED adventure where the
players get hired to find some sort of statue (yep, the BD one) in an old
kaer for some elven mage. I've just run Bottled Demon now, and got
remarks like "Hey, I know that statue" and "This is from Earthdawn,
right?" from my players...
Message no. 4
From: Brian Johnson <john0375@****.tc.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: wraiths?
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 12:33:31 -0500 (CDT)
are these in PAoE? I've yet to see them...What are they?
Message no. 5
From: dbuehrer@****.org (David Buehrer)
Subject: Re: wraiths?
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 11:51:13 -0600 (MDT)
Brian Johnson wrote:
|
|are these in PAoE? I've yet to see them...What are they?

Yes, they're from PAoE. They're astral beings of very high
intelligence, can manifest, can control targets, a variety
of immunities, and very nasty. I used *one* against my
players (average Karma Pool of approx. 25) and it took 'em
three rounds to take down the wraith. Well, actually there
were only two PCs left standing and in control of their
wits at the end.

BTW, PAoE is well worth the money. New critters and an
updated full list of all the powers.

-David

/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking alliances like
underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~~~~
Message no. 6
From: "Sascha Pabst" <Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.DE>
Subject: Re: wraiths?
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 23:06:43 +0000
On 15 Jul 96 at 12:33, Brian Johnson wrote:
> are these in PAoE? I've yet to see them...What are they?
Since this the player's list (*grin*):
They are nasty. In fact, they can be easily too nasty. I am not too
much in this "throw critters at 'em" stuff - I like (meat) human
villains more...
Oh, they're PNAoE pp. 110 to 111. Think about Tolkien's Nazgul
invented to SR :-)
Sascha
--
+---___---------+----------------------------------------+--------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst |The one who does not|
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de| learn from history |
| \___ __/ | | is bound to live |
|==== \_/ ======| *Wearing hats is just a way of life* | through it again. |
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+
Message no. 7
From: "Paolo Falco the FoxMaster" <Falco@****.it>
Subject: Re: wraiths?
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 09:39:00 +0200
On 15 Jul 96, Brian Johnson wrote:

> are these in PAoE? I've yet to see them...What are they?

I don't have the stats right now, but you would have to have
PAoE anyways since they have this nasty "Influence (LOS)" power
and they grow and grow when they kill people (or when anyone
controlled by them does). They are scary things that can be used
ONE AT A TIME to set up riots just to watch your players in an
unusual situation.

I used one once as PAoE said, who was enjoying controlling
rioters, and my players only later realized the full extent of
the evil they did when the PC with the panther cannon was
suddently controlled by one. he started firing off at the crowd,
while the being laughed and grew bigger!!!

Ah, mind you, they also have this "Fear" power, one of the ones
my PCs hate the most. They simply cannot resist running away!
(Dunno why... ANyone experincing the same in his adventures?)

------------------------------------------------------------------
Paolo Falco | "I closed my shop and you brought only ONE
Ironbound Section | ball?" (from "Clerks" - and My Experience)
------------------------------------------------------------------
Skater's Site And Generally Paradoxal Poetry Page With Lemmings at
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/2717
------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 8
From: "Andre' Selmer" <031ANDRE@******.wits.ac.za>
Subject: Re: wraiths?
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 11:28:49 GMT + 2:00
@ Ah, mind you, they also have this "Fear" power, one of the ones
@ my PCs hate the most. They simply cannot resist running away!
@ (Dunno why... ANyone experincing the same in his adventures?)

Our characters don't need to the nasty to have any sort of fear
power. We just run away from anything that is bigger, nastier and
uglier then us. For my character, vampires present a special problem
(as does anything with fangs), another character had something about
poodles. The sad part is even with things that cause fear we normally
resist the effect, but cannot resist the notion to run, run, run
away. ;)

Yes, after almost a month I'm back!








Andre'

-- We exist because you want us to, because you are
|__|__ afraid to fact the facts. We are what you fear
/\ /\ \ in the deep recesses of your soul, yourselves.
|\ /\ /| | It is there in the shadows of your soul and those
|/ \/ \| | of the street that we exist. Through the use of
\/__\/ might, magic, cunning, blood, sweat and tears we
protect you from your fears, from youselves, from
others and keep your utopia, not ours, intact.
Message no. 9
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: wraiths?
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 11:49:00 +0100
Brian Johnson said on 12:33/15 Jul 96...

> are these in PAoE? I've yet to see them...What are they?

Yes. They're very nasty critters... Apart from the *SPOILER WARNING!
SPOILER WARNING* Horror-constructs in HB (or probably together with those
constructs) they're most likely the worst things you can run into in SR.

The stats:

B Q S C I W E R Attacks
10 12x3 6 4 7/7 10 12A 7 Special
Powers: Confusion (Zone x 2), Fear (Zone x 2), Immunity to Pathogens,
Immunity to Poisons, Influence (Zone x 2), Magical Resistance, Magic
Sense, Manifestation
Weaknesses: None known
Notes: The wraith acts as a free spirit (see p.76, Grimoire II) and so
uses a Spirit Energy Rating. The wraith's Spirit Energy Rating generally
begins at 0, then increases by 1 point for every point (box) of Stun or
Physical damage a victim under its influence does to another lviing being
or inanimate structure. The wraith can have a maximum Spirit Energy equal
to twice its Essence.

Read that Notes bit again, and shiver.

Because Spirit Energy in effect equals Essence (and adds to it), what
happens when you attack a wraith is this:

* with a ranged weapon: it gets 24 points of armor when "empty," 72 when
fully charged
* with magic: it has a Body an Willpower of 22 when empty, 46 when fully
charged

Then it Confuses you out to a range of 24/72 meters with 12/36 dice,
after which you'll receive its Fear power out to the same range and with
the same number of dice, unless of course it wants to Influence you into
killing your friends or other people or things that happen to be nearby,
so it can get a bit more Spirit Energy to make itself even tougher...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Desolate and without purpose.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Character Mortuary: http://huizen.dds.nl/~mortuary/mortuary.html <-

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Message no. 10
From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.com>
Subject: Re: wraiths?
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 08:33:35 -0500
Seems to me that wraiths are probably "spike" horrors.

Double-Domed Mike
Message no. 11
From: dbuehrer@****.org (David Buehrer)
Subject: Re: wraiths?
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 07:00:21 -0600 (MDT)
Gurth wrote:
|
|Brian Johnson said on 12:33/15 Jul 96...
|
|> are these in PAoE? I've yet to see them...What are they?
|
|Yes. They're very nasty critters... Apart from the *SPOILER WARNING!
|SPOILER WARNING* Horror-constructs in HB (or probably together with those
|constructs) they're most likely the worst things you can run into in SR.
|
|The stats:
|
|B Q S C I W E R Attacks
|10 12x3 6 4 7/7 10 12A 7 Special
|Powers: Confusion (Zone x 2), Fear (Zone x 2), Immunity to Pathogens,
|Immunity to Poisons, Influence (Zone x 2), Magical Resistance, Magic
|Sense, Manifestation
|Weaknesses: None known
|Notes: The wraith acts as a free spirit (see p.76, Grimoire II) and so
|uses a Spirit Energy Rating. The wraith's Spirit Energy Rating generally
|begins at 0, then increases by 1 point for every point (box) of Stun or
|Physical damage a victim under its influence does to another lviing being
|or inanimate structure. The wraith can have a maximum Spirit Energy equal
|to twice its Essence.
|
|Read that Notes bit again, and shiver.
|
|Because Spirit Energy in effect equals Essence (and adds to it), what
|happens when you attack a wraith is this:
|
|* with a ranged weapon: it gets 24 points of armor when "empty," 72 when
| fully charged
|* with magic: it has a Body an Willpower of 22 when empty, 46 when fully
| charged
|
|Then it Confuses you out to a range of 24/72 meters with 12/36 dice,
|after which you'll receive its Fear power out to the same range and with
|the same number of dice, unless of course it wants to Influence you into
|killing your friends or other people or things that happen to be nearby,
|so it can get a bit more Spirit Energy to make itself even tougher...

And check out the intelligence stat. When I ran one of
these I used the Magic Sense to full effect and had it go
after the characters with active spell locks and foci
first. This tactic will very quickly eliminate the PhysAd,
who usually has the best chance of harming the Wraith. And
when it started influencing the magic types to attack the
rest of the party... :) The only reason the characters
survived is because I built an "out" into the encounter to
serve as part of the plot later on.

-David

/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking alliances like
underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~~~~
Message no. 12
From: "Mark Steedman" <M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: wraiths?
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 16:28:50 GMT
Gurth writes

> Brian Johnson said on 12:33/15 Jul 96...
>
> > are these in PAoE? I've yet to see them...What are they?
>
> Yes. They're very nasty critters... Apart from the *SPOILER WARNING!











> SPOILER WARNING* Horror-constructs in HB (or probably together with those
> constructs) they're most likely the worst things you can run into in SR.
>
The flesh form bugs out of DE are nasty as well.

nastiness rating (rough)
Bugs
Horror constucts (i happilly sent PC's for 1 hit flying lessons at
the Bridge part 1 ouch, those crawlers)
basic wraith.
ticked off Dragon (designed by FASA)
powered up Wraith
Ticked off Dragon (after application of Grimoire) / annoyed Ehran!

> The stats:
>
> B Q S C I W E R Attacks
> 10 12x3 6 4 7/7 10 12A 7 Special
> Powers: Confusion (Zone x 2), Fear (Zone x 2), Immunity to Pathogens,
> Immunity to Poisons, Influence (Zone x 2), Magical Resistance, Magic
> Sense, Manifestation
> Weaknesses: None known
> Notes: The wraith acts as a free spirit (see p.76, Grimoire II) and so
> uses a Spirit Energy Rating. The wraith's Spirit Energy Rating generally
> begins at 0, then increases by 1 point for every point (box) of Stun or
> Physical damage a victim under its influence does to another lviing being
> or inanimate structure. The wraith can have a maximum Spirit Energy equal
> to twice its Essence.
>
> Read that Notes bit again, and shiver.
>
> Because Spirit Energy in effect equals Essence (and adds to it), what
> happens when you attack a wraith is this:
>
> * with a ranged weapon: it gets 24 points of armor when "empty," 72 when
> fully charged
never mind the body dice.
There are a couple of things that work.
Big weapon foci with a lot of dice behind them and force 6+ damaging
manipulations. By the book it has zero armour vs those, (i say by the
book cause some GM's notice look at the PC's weapon foci and fix the
promblem :) [evil i know])

> * with magic: it has a Body an Willpower of 22 when empty, 46 when fully
> charged
>
oh it'll cause some temporary backgound count just for good measure :)

> Then it Confuses you out to a range of 24/72 meters with 12/36 dice,
> after which you'll receive its Fear power out to the same range and with
> the same number of dice, unless of course it wants to Influence you into
> killing your friends or other people or things that happen to be nearby,
> so it can get a bit more Spirit Energy to make itself even tougher...
>
oh and your target numbers to resist are something friendly like its
essence or willpower.

wraiths as far as i know are not actual horrors. They are another
precurser that bears more resmblence to horrors that the bugs do.
The history in the main ED rulebook lists the Astral threats in order
'Wraiths, bugs, horrors'.

Mark
Message no. 13
From: Droopy <droopy@**.net>
Subject: Re: wraiths?
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 12:25:21 -0400
At 12:33 PM 7/15/96 -0500, Brian Johnson wrote:
>
>are these in PAoE? I've yet to see them...What are they?
>
Yes they are in PAoE. They are either precursors to or the first of the
horrors to grace our world. To emphasize the importance -H- yells that they
must be destroyed, etc.


--Droopy
Message no. 14
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: wraiths?
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 13:46:43 +0100
Mike Elkins said on 8:33/16 Jul 96...

> Seems to me that wraiths are probably "spike" horrors.

Not quite. The history chapter of the ED book talks baout invae, wraiths,
and Horrors as separate entities. The wraiths came first, then the insect
spirits, and then the Horrors. In SR the first two seem to have switched
places, though.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Excuse me ma'am for being so rude
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Character Mortuary: http://huizen.dds.nl/~mortuary/mortuary.html <-

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Message no. 15
From: Ubiquitous <weberm@*******.net>
Subject: Re: wraiths?
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 09:36:34 -0400 (EDT)
At 01:46 PM 7/17/96 +0100, Gurth wrote:
>Mike Elkins said on 8:33/16 Jul 96...

>> Seems to me that wraiths are probably "spike" horrors.
>
>Not quite. The history chapter of the ED book talks baout invae, wraiths,
>and Horrors as separate entities. The wraiths came first, then the insect
>spirits, and then the Horrors. In SR the first two seem to have switched
>places, though.

Where are Wraiths mentioned in EarthDawn?

--
"You cannot escape. Everyday a part of you turns to shit."
Message no. 16
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: wraiths?
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 11:35:40 +0100
Ubiquitous said on 9:36/17 Jul 96...

> Where are Wraiths mentioned in EarthDawn?

Page 22, under The First Horrors: "In the city of Majallan, (...) dark
wraithlike spirits stalk the streets, driving men to violence against each
other." A few sentences later it talks about "twisted, insect-like
creatures (...) nesting in isolated urban and rural areas."

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I've often tried to hold the sea, the sun, the fields, the tide.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Character Mortuary: http://huizen.dds.nl/~mortuary/mortuary.html <-

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Message no. 17
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Wraiths
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 11:26:45 +0100
We all know the wraith (PAoE p. 110) is a tough bugger, but for something
I'm working on, I need one that's a little less powerful. Since it's a
spirit, it seems to me that it has a Force, yet PAoE fails to mention
this. As it's not in the Critters book or Predator And Prey, I'm turning
to the list for this. The stats below seem okay to me, but how do they
strike everyone else?

B Q S C I W E R
F+4 (F+6) F F-2 F+1 F+4 (Fx2)A F+1

Its maximum Spirit Energy would be 4 times its Force.

Alternatively, assuming Essence always equals Force for a spirit, the
following stats might be more accurate:

B Q S C I W E R
F-2 F F-6 F-8 F-5 F-2 F F-5
(With a maximum Spirit Energy equal to twice its Force.)

However, these seem a bit odd in that nearly all stats are adjusted
downward, which is very uncommon for spirits.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
If it's no use pretending, then I don't want to know.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
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Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 18
From: Rick j Federle griffinhq@****.com
Subject: Wraiths
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:08:37 -0500
>We all know the wraith (PAoE p. 110) is a tough bugger, but for
something
>I'm working on, I need one that's a little less powerful. Since it's a
>spirit, it seems to me that it has a Force, yet PAoE fails to mention
>this. As it's not in the Critters book or Predator And Prey, I'm turning

>to the list for this. The stats below seem okay to me, but how do they
>strike everyone else?

Actually, A Wraith isn't a spirit. It's better clasified as a Horror
construct.

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Message no. 19
From: David Buehrer dbuehrer@******.carl.org
Subject: Wraiths
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 07:26:16 -0700 (MST)
For the mere cost of a Thaum, Gurth wrote:
/
/ We all know the wraith (PAoE p. 110) is a tough bugger, but for something
/ I'm working on, I need one that's a little less powerful. Since it's a
/ spirit, it seems to me that it has a Force, yet PAoE fails to mention
/ this. As it's not in the Critters book or Predator And Prey, I'm turning
/ to the list for this. The stats below seem okay to me, but how do they
/ strike everyone else?

You're making it to complicated :)

It says somewhere that the stats and powers for critters are for the
average critter of that type and that the GM is free to modify the
stats and powers for individual critters.

Instead of working out the force and adjusting that and working out the
math again, I would suggest adjusting the stats and/or powers until it
looks right.

All IMHO.

-David B.
--
"Earn what you have been given."
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
Message no. 20
From: Tony Rabiola rabiola@**.netcom.com
Subject: Wraiths
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 11:30:35 -0600
We all know the wraith (PAoE p. 110) is a tough bugger, but for
something
I'm working on, I need one that's a little less powerful. Since it's a
spirit, it seems to me that it has a Force, yet PAoE fails to mention
this. As it's not in the Critters book or Predator And Prey, I'm
turning
to the list for this. The stats below seem okay to me, but how do they
strike everyone else?

B Q S C I W E R
F+4 (F+6) F F-2 F+1 F+4 (Fx2)A F+1

Its maximum Spirit Energy would be 4 times its Force.

I prefer these, the stronger ones, Gurth; after all, they should
strike some fear when they rear their ugly heads....

Tony Rabiola
rabiola@**.netcom.com
Fourth and Sixth World Adept
(still working on the Fifth)
Proud owner BABY #972
Message no. 21
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Wraiths
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 19:22:51 +0100
According to David Buehrer, at 7:26 on 11 Feb 99, the word on
the street was...

> You're making it to complicated :)
>
> It says somewhere that the stats and powers for critters are for the
> average critter of that type and that the GM is free to modify the
> stats and powers for individual critters.

I know, but I have this habit of using a system if there is one, and if
there isn't, to try and make one that fits :) Naturally I could just
adjust the stats as needed, but I'd prefer to have a way to make all
wraiths "compatible."

Also, if a wraith is a spirit then it can be banished -- and for that you
need to know its Force.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
If it's no use pretending, then I don't want to know.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

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Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 22
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Wraiths
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 19:22:51 +0100
According to Rick j Federle, at 9:08 on 11 Feb 99, the word on
the street was...

> Actually, A Wraith isn't a spirit. It's better clasified as a Horror
> construct.

And where do you get that information? According to PAoE it's a spirit, so
for SR I guess that classification will have to do.

Furthermore, although I don't own all Earthdawn books, I do know that in
the ED main rulebook (in the history of the world chapter) it says that
first to come are the insect spirits, then wraiths, and finally the
Horrors. I've always taken that to mean that wraiths are not Horrors.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
If it's no use pretending, then I don't want to know.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
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Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 23
From: Rick j Federle griffinhq@****.com
Subject: Wraiths
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 15:52:42 -0500
On Thu, 11 Feb 1999 19:22:51 +0100 "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl> writes:
>According to Rick j Federle, at 9:08 on 11 Feb 99, the word on
>the street was...
>
>> Actually, A Wraith isn't a spirit. It's better clasified as
>a Horror
>> construct.
>
>And where do you get that information? According to PAoE it's a
>spirit, so
>for SR I guess that classification will have to do.
>
If that's what it says, then that's what it is. Although, I've always
classified the Horrors themselves as spirit-like, but not spirits.

>Furthermore, although I don't own all Earthdawn books, I do know that
>in
>the ED main rulebook (in the history of the world chapter) it says
>that
>first to come are the insect spirits, then wraiths, and finally the
>Horrors. I've always taken that to mean that wraiths are not Horrors.
>
They're not, they're Horror CONSTRUCTS. Big difference as far as I
remember.
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Message no. 24
From: Mongoose m0ng005e@*********.com
Subject: Wraiths
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:42:24 -0600
:
:
:We all know the wraith (PAoE p. 110) is a tough bugger, but for
:something
:I'm working on, I need one that's a little less powerful. Since it's a
:spirit, it seems to me that it has a Force, yet PAoE fails to mention
:this. As it's not in the Critters book or Predator And Prey, I'm
:turning
:to the list for this. The stats below seem okay to me, but how do they
:strike everyone else?
:
:B Q S C I W E R
:F+4 (F+6) F F-2 F+1 F+4 (Fx2)A F+1

Essence is ALWAYS force, for spirits. I'm not sure if you'd need to
adjust its ablities.


:Its maximum Spirit Energy would be 4 times its Force.

Is that the norm? I'd expect these to have a force of 7-12 anyhow,
and the abilty to double that with its temporary essence drain (or however
it works).

Isn't the Wraith in the SR3 gamescreen book? Even if it
isn't, several similar (and equally dangerous!) spirit beings (that is the
term used, I believe) do appear there, and should be adequate guidance.
As for just what a wraith is- it is (as far as is known) a being
native to astral space. That more or less makes it an unidentified spirit
type, in SR terms. In ED, it might be considered a major unnamed type
horror (IE, of a type, without individual name). Some of the new SR3 GM
screen book spirits are also in that catogory (I could see them wiping out
entire vilages rather easily).
Horror constructs are not normally native to astral space, although
horrors have been known to
manipulate and alter spirits into horror constructs. Interestingly, one
Named horror (Artificier) is believed to be just such a construct (a
warped earth elemental, which perhaps in SR could be a toxic mountain
spirit), so perhaps the line is not so hard.
Message no. 25
From: Dodge d7582@*****.com
Subject: Wraiths
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 22:16:42 -0800
<snip>
> >Furthermore, although I don't own all Earthdawn books, I do know that
> >in
> >the ED main rulebook (in the history of the world chapter) it says
> >that
> >first to come are the insect spirits, then wraiths, and finally the
> >Horrors. I've always taken that to mean that wraiths are not Horrors.
> >
> They're not, they're Horror CONSTRUCTS. Big difference as far as I
> remember.

I've never even SEEN an Earth Dawn book. I would really like to know
about what a Horror and/or a Horror Construct is, and other ED things
that may have popped up into the moddern SR world. I remember someone I
know mentioning something about rock people? Sort of like big rock trolls
that died when the magic went away. Will I ever see one of those in an SR
campaign?
Message no. 26
From: Dann dann1@*****.com
Subject: Wraiths
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 22:28:48 -0500
>
>I've never even SEEN an Earth Dawn book. I would really like to know
>about what a Horror and/or a Horror Construct is, and other ED things
>that may have popped up into the moddern SR world. I remember someone I
>know mentioning something about rock people? Sort of like big rock trolls
>that died when the magic went away. Will I ever see one of those in an SR
>campaign?
>
>
Logically, if they died out in ED, which they did IIRC, then you wouldn't
see them in an SR campaign, unless your GM changed the rules....which is
bound to happen from time to time, i.e. people "goblinizing" into elves

Kyoto the Angel
AIM: AngelKyoto
ICQ: 29713335
Message no. 27
From: Ereskanti@***.com Ereskanti@***.com
Subject: Wraiths
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 23:15:45 EST
In a message dated 2/11/1999 1:24:00 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
gurth@******.nl writes:

>
> Also, if a wraith is a spirit then it can be banished -- and for that you
> need to know its Force.

No, actually for that you need to know it's True Name....
-K (sorry, couldn't resist ;-)
Message no. 28
From: Sven De Herdt Sven.DeHerdt@***********.be
Subject: Wraiths
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 11:26:10 +0100
Actually the Horrors didn't die out they were pushed back to their own
planes.

There are quite a few novels and some adventures that relate to the
return and the presence of Horrors.

So to all players out there: watch out!

Sven ;-)
GM.

> Subject: Re: Wraiths
>
>
> >
> >I've never even SEEN an Earth Dawn book. I would really like to know
> >about what a Horror and/or a Horror Construct is, and other ED things
> >that may have popped up into the moddern SR world. I remember someone
> I
> >know mentioning something about rock people? Sort of like big rock
> trolls
> >that died when the magic went away. Will I ever see one of those in
> an SR
> >campaign?
> >
> >
> Logically, if they died out in ED, which they did IIRC, then you
> wouldn't
> see them in an SR campaign, unless your GM changed the rules....which
> is
> bound to happen from time to time, i.e. people "goblinizing" into
> elves
>
> Kyoto the Angel
> AIM: AngelKyoto
> ICQ: 29713335
>
>
Message no. 29
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Wraiths
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 13:34:08 +0100
According to Rick j Federle, at 15:52 on 11 Feb 99, the word on
the street was...

> >Furthermore, although I don't own all Earthdawn books, I do know that in
> >the ED main rulebook (in the history of the world chapter) it says that
> >first to come are the insect spirits, then wraiths, and finally the
> >Horrors. I've always taken that to mean that wraiths are not Horrors.
> >
> They're not, they're Horror CONSTRUCTS. Big difference as far as I
> remember.

But for that to happen, there would have to be Horrors to make those
constructs. Unless you're theorizing that constructs can be "sent across"
much earlier than the Horrors themselves can break through into astral
space and the physical plane.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
If it's no use pretending, then I don't want to know.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
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Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 30
From: Hunter griffinhq@****.com
Subject: Wraiths
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 10:14:40 -0800
On Sat, 13 Feb 1999 13:34:08 +0100 "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl> writes:
>According to Rick j Federle, at 15:52 on 11 Feb 99, the word on
>the street was...
>
>But for that to happen, there would have to be Horrors to make those
>constructs. Unless you're theorizing that constructs can be "sent
>across"
>much earlier than the Horrors themselves can break through into astral
>space and the physical plane.
>
Honestly, I have no idea.
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Message no. 31
From: Blackadder blkadder@****.net
Subject: Wraiths
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 10:28:13 -0500
|On Sat, 13 Feb 1999 13:34:08 +0100 "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl> writes:
|>According to Rick j Federle, at 15:52 on 11 Feb 99, the word on
|>the street was...
|>
|>But for that to happen, there would have to be Horrors to make those
|>constructs. Unless you're theorizing that constructs can be "sent
|>across"
|>much earlier than the Horrors themselves can break through into
astral
|>space and the physical plane.
|>



-----BlackAdder Adds-----
Or they never could have left in the first place, instead going
dormant until the Mana Level was high enough to reawaken them. Sort of
like the Frankenstein monster being frozen at the North Pole at the
end of the novel, only to be thawed out for the sequel movie;-]

BlackAdder !!!
Message no. 32
From: Schizi@***.com Schizi@***.com
Subject: Wraiths
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 18:37:54 EST
In a message dated 2/13/99 7:29:41 AM Pacific Standard Time, blkadder@****.net
writes:

> Or they never could have left in the first place, instead going
> dormant until the Mana Level was high enough to reawaken them. Sort of
> like the Frankenstein monster being frozen at the North Pole at the
> end of the novel, only to be thawed out for the sequel movie;-]
Just something to add, Wriaths were mentioned in ED as being a precursor to
the Horrors. They appeared before the Horrors, like the Invae (Insect Avatars)
and some country that had a year of still births.
In the context that they and the Invae were both just precursors, they may
have no more link to the horrors than the way they feed of negative emotions.
IMO of course
Message no. 33
From: EdgeWalker EdgeWalker@*****.net
Subject: Wraiths
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 00:44:51 -0000
> According to Rick j Federle, at 15:52 on 11 Feb 99, the word on
> the street was...
>
> > >Furthermore, although I don't own all Earthdawn books, I do
> know that in
> > >the ED main rulebook (in the history of the world chapter) it
> says that
> > >first to come are the insect spirits, then wraiths, and finally the
> > >Horrors. I've always taken that to mean that wraiths are not Horrors.
> > >
> > They're not, they're Horror CONSTRUCTS. Big difference as far as I
> > remember.
>
> But for that to happen, there would have to be Horrors to make those
> constructs. Unless you're theorizing that constructs can be "sent across"
> much earlier than the Horrors themselves can break through into astral
> space and the physical plane.

This depends on whether you allow events from shadowrun books to occur in
the game. At the end of the Dragon Heart Saga a few of the constructs that
Ryan and the others were fighting did escape to our side of the chasm.
Message no. 34
From: Sven De Herdt Sven.DeHerdt@***********.be
Subject: Wraiths
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 04:08:23 +0100
Edgewalker wrote:
[>] > But for that to happen, there would have to be Horrors
to make those
[>] > constructs. Unless you're theorizing that constructs
can be "sent across"
[>] > much earlier than the Horrors themselves can break
through into astral
[>] > space and the physical plane.
[>]
[>] This depends on whether you allow events from shadowrun
books to occur in
[>] the game. At the end of the Dragon Heart Saga a few of
the constructs that
[>] Ryan and the others were fighting did escape to our side
of the chasm.

What is the difference between the actual Horrors and Horrors
Constructs, fi. in the Novel "Worlds without ends" it seemed like this
was a Horror wandering on the physical plane or am I wrong about this
one!?

Sven ;-)
>
Message no. 35
From: Blackadder blkadder@****.net
Subject: Wraiths
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 22:17:52 -0500
| Edgewalker wrote:
| [>] > But for that to happen, there would have to be Horrors
|to make those
| [>] > constructs. Unless you're theorizing that constructs
|can be "sent across"
| [>] > much earlier than the Horrors themselves can break
|through into astral
| [>] > space and the physical plane.
| [>]
| [>] This depends on whether you allow events from shadowrun
|books to occur in
| [>] the game. At the end of the Dragon Heart Saga a few of
|the constructs that
| [>] Ryan and the others were fighting did escape to our side
|of the chasm.
|
| What is the difference between the actual Horrors and Horrors
|Constructs, fi. in the Novel "Worlds without ends" it seemed like
this
|was a Horror wandering on the physical plane or am I wrong about this
|one!?
|
| Sven ;-)

-----BlackAdder Adds-----

Horror Constructs are created by Horrors and while horrifically
[pardon the pun] powerful, are dwarfed by the sheer reality warping
power of a true Horror [think of it as the difference between Deep
Ones in Cthulu Mythos, fish/man hybrid servators of Cthulu, and Cthulu
itself, which is maybe a mile tall, and psychically assaults
everything within a 100 mile radius, JUST by waking from it's undersea
city.
Metahumanity has a chance to fight against a Horror Construct,
but against a real Horror [with all kinds of neat ability like Karma
Warping, to cancel out a person's chances of succeeding at anything]
they don't stand a chance.....yet, IMO. Maybe in a few thousand or so.
Then again, maybe not, and metahumanity will have to hide again like
it's ancestors did.

The BlackAdder !!!
Message no. 36
From: Blackadder blkadder@****.net
Subject: Wraiths
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 22:21:30 -0500
-----Original Message-----
From: Sven De Herdt <Sven.DeHerdt@***********.be>
in the Novel "Worlds without ends" it seemed like this
|was a Horror wandering on the physical plane or am I wrong about this
|one!?
|
| Sven ;-)

S
P
O
I
L
E
R
S
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

In the book Worlds Without End, the 'guy' that showed up was an
actual Horror, BUT it was only ONE [abeit a powerful and cunning one],
and was facing an elven sorceress over ten thousand years old. And it
LET itself be 'killed', so it's life energies could be used to
accelerate the arrival of it's brothers.

The BlackAdder!!!
Message no. 37
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Wraiths
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 11:47:58 +0100
According to Sven De Herdt, at 4:08 on 14 Feb 99, the word on
the street was...

> What is the difference between the actual Horrors and Horrors
> Constructs, fi. in the Novel "Worlds without ends" it seemed like this
> was a Horror wandering on the physical plane or am I wrong about this
> one!?

A Horror is one of the big, nasty monsters from Earthdawn which will come
into the world when the mana level reaches a certain threshold, while a
Horror construct is a creature made from scratch (or altered from an
existing creature) by a Horror.

In WWE, Ysrtgrathe (sp? does anyone else get the impression Caroline
Spector just hit random keys as well? :) is a Horror -- see the Earthdawn
sourcebook "Horrors" and one of the full-page b/w plates in the ED main
rulebook, the one titled "Aina reaches for immortality" somewhere in the
back of the book.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
If it's no use pretending, then I don't want to know.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
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Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 38
From: chimerae@***.ie chimerae@***.ie
Subject: Wraiths
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 11:06:55 +0000
and thus did Gurth speak on 14 Feb 99 at 11:47:

> In WWE, Ysrtgrathe (sp? does anyone else get the impression Caroline
> Spector just hit random keys as well? :)

No not really, I tried and it's very hard to get that name by random
keystrokes. But they did come up with a suitable unwritable name in
the good old Chtulu... Cthulu... (or whatever) tradition.
Maybe they got the horror name from mages who tried to pronounce
their true name (which must be far worse than that).

"Oh, by the name true of thee foul spirit of the netherworld I
command thee to return to thy world. Hear me, oh Ysgryr... no,
Ysgriate... no, Ysgreto..., dammit. Sorry 'bout that, just give me a
sec.... "


*sigh* What happened to the good old demon names with lots of "oth"
sounds and a suitable "The Mutilator" at the end?

Martin
------
"I am dyslexic of Borg, your ass will be laminated" (unknown)
Message no. 39
From: Schizi@***.com Schizi@***.com
Subject: Wraiths
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 09:25:36 EST
In a message dated 2/14/99 2:48:27 AM Pacific Standard Time, gurth@******.nl
writes:

> In WWE, Ysrtgrathe (sp? does anyone else get the impression Caroline
> Spector just hit random keys as well? :) is a Horror -- see the Earthdawn
> sourcebook "Horrors" and one of the full-page b/w plates in the ED main
> rulebook, the one titled "Aina reaches for immortality" somewhere in the
> back of the book.

Ysrgarthe was around before Spector wrote the book I believe. Besides with
Verjigorm nad the rest out there it is a pretty normal name :-)
Also, Aina was an IE before the act in the picture.

"I don't remember our contacts name, Vergil I think, Vergil Gorm or something
like that"
Message no. 40
From: Lady Jestyr jestyr@*******.com.au
Subject: Wraiths
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 00:32:43 +1000
At 09:25 14/02/99 -0500, Schizi@***.com wrote:

> Also, Aina was an IE before the act in the picture.

I hate to bring the everlasting IE thread back up again - but how precisely
do you know this?

Lady Jestyr

"A true beanie should have a propellor on the top." -- Terry Pratchett
- jestyr@*******.com.au URL: http://www.geocities.com/~jestyr -
Message no. 41
From: Blackadder blkadder@****.net
Subject: Wraiths
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 10:01:00 -0500
|> Also, Aina was an IE before the act in the picture.
|
|I hate to bring the everlasting IE thread back up again - but how
precisely
|do you know this?
|
|Lady Jestyr


----BlackAdder Adds-----

It says so in the book Worlds Without End [it doesn't come right
out and say, Oh, she's an immortal elf, but when you live for over
several thousands years, survived the Black Plague, been intered in
The Tower Of London during Elizabeth's time, and continually 'inherit'
all your stuff from your previous identities, and is an elf, I'd be
more inclined to believe it.]
It also makes reference to her having been around during the last
cycle of magic during the Earthdawn era, when she first met the
Horror, Mr. Y ;-] Fasa's supposed to be coming out, one way or the
other, the other two books in the Worlds Without End trilogy that take
place 10,000 ago, Scars & Little Treasures, when she first met
Harlequin and Mr. Y, and had the tragic birth of her corrupted son.

The BlackAdder!!!
Message no. 42
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Wraiths
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 19:31:46 +0100
According to Blackadder, at 10:01 on 14 Feb 99, the word on
the street was...

> It says so in the book Worlds Without End [it doesn't come right
> out and say, Oh, she's an immortal elf, but when you live for over
> several thousands years, survived the Black Plague, been intered in
> The Tower Of London during Elizabeth's time, and continually 'inherit'
> all your stuff from your previous identities, and is an elf, I'd be
> more inclined to believe it.]
> It also makes reference to her having been around during the last
> cycle of magic during the Earthdawn era, when she first met the
> Horror, Mr. Y ;-] Fasa's supposed to be coming out, one way or the
> other, the other two books in the Worlds Without End trilogy that take
> place 10,000 ago, Scars & Little Treasures, when she first met
> Harlequin and Mr. Y, and had the tragic birth of her corrupted son.

That much was kinda obvious, IMnsHO... The question Lady J and I ask is
how does Schizi@***.com know that Aina was immortal _before_ the events
depicted in the picture in the ED rulebook take place. It always seemed to
me that she met Ysrjhsrlkdnjtksejn (BTW, Martin, the "sr" at the beginning
after the Y _were_ produced by randomly punching the keyboard with about 8
fingers :) and he told her how to become immortal -- with the result seen
in that picture. Whether it happened 5000 years ago, 10000, or how ever
many doesn't really matter, IMHO.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
If it's no use pretending, then I don't want to know.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

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Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 43
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Wraiths
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 19:31:45 +0100
According to Schizi@***.com, at 9:25 on 14 Feb 99, the word on
the street was...

> Ysrgarthe was around before Spector wrote the book I believe.

The picture, or the name?

> Also, Aina was an IE before the act in the picture.

Where did you get that from? And, if it's true, why is that picture called
what it is?

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
If it's no use pretending, then I don't want to know.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 44
From: Patrick Goodman remo@***.net
Subject: Wraiths
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 12:45:18 -0600
From: Lady Jestyr
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 1999 8:33 AM

>> Also, Aina was an IE before the act in the picture.
>
>I hate to bring the everlasting IE thread back up again - but how
>precisely do you know this?

Maybe the copy of Earthdawn I acquired is different, or maybe I just didn't
look hard enough. Could someone tell me where this picture *is*? Thanks.

--
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
Message no. 45
From: Blackadder blkadder@****.net
Subject: Wraiths
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 15:26:37 -0500
-----Original Message-----
From: Gurth <gurth@******.nl>

That much was kinda obvious, IMnsHO... The question Lady J and I ask
is
how does Schizi@***.com know that Aina was immortal _before_ the
events
depicted in the picture in the ED rulebook take place. It always
seemed to
me that she met Ysrjhsrlkdnjtksejn (BTW, Martin, the "sr" at the
beginning
after the Y _were_ produced by randomly punching the keyboard with
about 8
fingers :) and he told her how to become immortal -- with the result
seen
in that picture. Whether it happened 5000 years ago, 10000, or how
ever
many doesn't really matter, IMHO.

-----BlackAdder Asks-----

Hey, hope no offense was taken by my reply. I guess I just don't
understand what the question being asked in the first place is. Are
you asking how she became immortal [I'm assuming the smae way the
other long lived elves got that way, and it's not an isolated case],
or how she or the Horror got their names?
Message no. 46
From: Lady Jestyr jestyr@*******.com.au
Subject: Wraiths
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 07:28:37 +1000
> Hey, hope no offense was taken by my reply. I guess I just don't
>understand what the question being asked in the first place is. Are
>you asking how she became immortal [I'm assuming the smae way the
>other long lived elves got that way, and it's not an isolated case],
>or how she or the Horror got their names?

I personally wasn't asking either of those questions - you said that Aina
was already immortal BEFORE Ysrgrathe offered immortality to her, and I
wanted to know what your source for that was.

Lady Jestyr

"A true beanie should have a propellor on the top." -- Terry Pratchett
- jestyr@*******.com.au URL: http://www.geocities.com/~jestyr -
Message no. 47
From: Lady Jestyr jestyr@*******.com.au
Subject: Wraiths
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 07:26:03 +1000
At 10:01 14/02/99 -0500, Blackadder wrote:
>
>|> Also, Aina was an IE before the act in the picture.
>|
>|I hate to bring the everlasting IE thread back up again - but how
>precisely
>|do you know this?
>
> It says so in the book Worlds Without End [it doesn't come right
>out and say, Oh, she's an immortal elf, but when you live for over
>several thousands years, survived the Black Plague, been intered in
>The Tower Of London during Elizabeth's time, and continually 'inherit'
>all your stuff from your previous identities, and is an elf, I'd be
>more inclined to believe it.]

I'm not debating the fact that Aina's immortal, I'm debating the fact that
she was immortal BEFORE the act in the picture. You still haven't provided
a source for that.

Lady Jestyr

"A true beanie should have a propellor on the top." -- Terry Pratchett
- jestyr@*******.com.au URL: http://www.geocities.com/~jestyr -
Message no. 48
From: Blackadder blkadder@****.net
Subject: Wraiths
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 16:41:07 -0500
-----Original Message-----
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.com.au>
To: shadowrn@*********.org <shadowrn@*********.org>
Date: Sunday, February 14, 1999 4:38 PM
Subject: Re: Wraiths


|At 10:01 14/02/99 -0500, Blackadder wrote:
|>
|>|> Also, Aina was an IE before the act in the picture.
|>|
|>|I hate to bring the everlasting IE thread back up again - but how
|>precisely
|>|do you know this?
|>
|> It says so in the book Worlds Without End [it doesn't come
right
|>out and say, Oh, she's an immortal elf, but when you live for over
|>several thousands years, survived the Black Plague, been intered in
|>The Tower Of London during Elizabeth's time, and continually
'inherit'
|>all your stuff from your previous identities, and is an elf, I'd be
|>more inclined to believe it.]
|
|I'm not debating the fact that Aina's immortal, I'm debating the fact
that
|she was immortal BEFORE the act in the picture. You still haven't
provided
|a source for that.
|
|Lady Jestyr

-----BlackAdder Adds-----

Like I said before, I didn't understand what was being asked. I
think it'll be covered in the authoress' other two books set in
Eartdawn, if FASA ever puts them out in some fashion.
Message no. 49
From: Schizi@***.com Schizi@***.com
Subject: Wraiths
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 17:08:34 EST
In a message dated 2/14/99 6:49:10 AM Pacific Standard Time,
jestyr@*******.com.au writes:

> > Also, Aina was an IE before the act in the picture.
>
> I hate to bring the everlasting IE thread back up again - but how precisely
> do you know this?
>
Chant_Obscur@*******.fr (I think that was the one, sorry if I am wrong)
The Scars and little treasures were printed in France. In them Ysrgarthe
convinces Aina that she gains immortality from him, until it is revealed that
she was an IE all along and he was just taking credit for it.
Second hand info, but it fits.
Message no. 50
From: AlSeyMer AdSM@******.be
Subject: Wraiths
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 23:45:48 +0100
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1


At 23:08 14/02/99, from Schizi@***.com:
>In a message dated 2/14/99 6:49:10 AM Pacific Standard Time,
>jestyr@*******.com.au writes:
>
>> > Also, Aina was an IE before the act in the picture.
>>
>> I hate to bring the everlasting IE thread back up again - but how
precisely
>> do you know this?
>>
>Chant_Obscur@*******.fr (I think that was the one, sorry if I am
wrong)
>The Scars and little treasures were printed in France. In them
Ysrgarthe
>convinces Aina that she gains immortality from him, until it is
revealed that
>she was an IE all along and he was just taking credit for it.
> Second hand info, but it fits.

I hate to thread on a mined field...

Having read those books, I can confirm. IIRC, it was said or implied
that the IEs were/are "created" by the/some/a dragon(s). However, I
don't remember if they predate the "half-dragons" like Mercury.


AlSeyMer

- - - -
Goin' back to lurk mode for a few monthes, maybe in Gurth's shelter...
;-)

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Message no. 51
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Wraiths
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 12:18:59 +0100
According to Blackadder, at 15:26 on 14 Feb 99, the word on
the street was...

> Hey, hope no offense was taken by my reply. I guess I just don't
> understand what the question being asked in the first place is. Are
> you asking how she became immortal [I'm assuming the smae way the
> other long lived elves got that way, and it's not an isolated case],
> or how she or the Horror got their names?

How she became immortal. I'll try to explain this once again, hopefully so
you'll understand now:

1) There is a picture in the Earthdawn rulebook titled "Aina reaches for
immortality" which shows a woman and a scary monster.

2) The Horror Ysrtgrathe described in the Earthdawn Horrors sourcebook
bears a striking resemblance to the one shown in the above-mentioned
picture.

3) In the SR novel Worlds Without End, there is an immortal elf called
Aina, who has been troubled by the Horror Ysrtgrathe for ages.

4) My conclusion is that this Horror has made that elf immortal.

All well and fine, and probably what most other people concluded as well.
However:

5) Along comes someone on this list who claims that Aina was immortal all
along and the Horror didn't have anything to do with it.

6) I ask that person to share with us where that information comes from.

7) You don't understand the question and give an answer to one that wasn't
even asked :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
If it's no use pretending, then I don't want to know.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 52
From: Tamino tamino@**********.wow.aust.com
Subject: Wraiths
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 00:14:02 +1000
At 05:08 14/02/99 EST, you wrote:
>In a message dated 2/14/99 6:49:10 AM Pacific Standard Time,
>jestyr@*******.com.au writes:
>
>> > Also, Aina was an IE before the act in the picture.
>>
>> I hate to bring the everlasting IE thread back up again - but how
precisely
>> do you know this?
>>
>Chant_Obscur@*******.fr (I think that was the one, sorry if I am wrong)
>The Scars and little treasures were printed in France. In them Ysrgarthe
>convinces Aina that she gains immortality from him, until it is revealed that
>she was an IE all along and he was just taking credit for it.
> Second hand info, but it fits.

I feel that I should point out that official SR cannon has been and to our
knowledge will _only_ be printed by FASA itself, not the licencee's in
Europe...
Although Scars and Little Treasures may have been printed in French, they
won't
count as official cannon until they're printed by FASA in english...




-Tamino ...All too easy

"ISTI STELLA MIRANT" - Bayeux Tapestry
tamino@**********.wow.aust.com
Message no. 53
From: Airwasp@***.com Airwasp@***.com
Subject: Wraiths
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:48:13 EST
In a message dated 2/14/1999 1:32:21 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
gurth@******.nl writes:

> > It also makes reference to her having been around during the last
> > cycle of magic during the Earthdawn era, when she first met the
> > Horror, Mr. Y ;-] Fasa's supposed to be coming out, one way or the
> > other, the other two books in the Worlds Without End trilogy that take
> > place 10,000 ago, Scars & Little Treasures, when she first met
> > Harlequin and Mr. Y, and had the tragic birth of her corrupted son.
>
> That much was kinda obvious, IMnsHO... The question Lady J and I ask is
> how does Schizi@***.com know that Aina was immortal _before_ the events
> depicted in the picture in the ED rulebook take place. It always seemed to
> me that she met Ysrjhsrlkdnjtksejn (BTW, Martin, the "sr" at the beginning

> after the Y _were_ produced by randomly punching the keyboard with about 8
> fingers :) and he told her how to become immortal -- with the result seen
> in that picture. Whether it happened 5000 years ago, 10000, or how ever
> many doesn't really matter, IMHO.

IMO, the picture shows Aina paying a price to Ysagrathe for knowledge that we
would grant to her, at least this is the thought that comes to me regarding
the picture. Whether she was a IE before or after is not important, it only
matters that she is.

-Herc
Message no. 54
From: Ereskanti@***.com Ereskanti@***.com
Subject: Wraiths
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 18:28:52 EST
In a message dated 2/14/1999 4:36:51 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
jestyr@*******.com.au writes:

>
> I'm not debating the fact that Aina's immortal, I'm debating the fact that
> she was immortal BEFORE the act in the picture. You still haven't provided
> a source for that.

Ah yes, the stupid question of how immortality is attained. Here's a hint...

Go Cybermantic...

-K
Message no. 55
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon@*******.com
Subject: Wraiths
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 16:36:50 PST
>Chant_Obscur@*******.fr (I think that was the one, sorry if I am wrong)
>The Scars and little treasures were printed in France. In them
Ysrgarthe
>convinces Aina that she gains immortality from him, until it is
revealed that
>she was an IE all along and he was just taking credit for it.
> Second hand info, but it fits.

I feel that I should point out that official SR cannon has been and to
our knowledge will _only_ be printed by FASA itself, not the licencee's
in Europe... Although Scars and Little Treasures may have been printed
in French, they won't count as official cannon until they're printed by
FASA in english...

-Tamino ...All too easy

Now that's just being pedantic, Tamino.

And it's canon. :)

Seriously, though, although you can debate the legitimacy of those two
books, WWE is an official book - and that means that Caroline Spector's
history of Aina is the 'official' history of Aina - otherwise WWE
couldn't be canon, could it? Oooo...logic...I think.

Anyway, all that I'm saying is that unless you're the most hidebound
idiot, you'll have to treat what happens in Scars and Little Treasures
as 'fact' - so Aina was an immortal before Ysrgrathe (is that how it's
spelt? I'm going from memory here - read WWE a couple of years ago)
conned her - she just didn't know it.

Is it important, anyway, in the context of Shadowrun? Well...I hardly
think so. UNLESS you decide that the Horrors are still around in your
campaign and that they're going to be offering your players immortality
in exchange for...something...

Now that's a scary thought.

*Doc' hides under the covers. "MOMMEE!!! Don't let the evil Rick use
that on me!!!"*

Doc'

.sig Sauer

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Message no. 56
From: Schizi@***.com Schizi@***.com
Subject: Wraiths
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 19:55:22 EST
In a message dated 2/15/99 6:17:31 AM Pacific Standard Time,
tamino@**********.wow.aust.com writes:

> I feel that I should point out that official SR cannon has been and to our
> knowledge will _only_ be printed by FASA itself, not the licencee's in
> Europe...
> Although Scars and Little Treasures may have been printed in French, they
> won't
> count as official cannon until they're printed by FASA in english...

Well Scars and Little Treasures got caught in the death of ED, so in that way
they will never be cannon unless they go up on the site. Of course there is no
canon source that says Aina was given immortality by Ysrgarthe either, nay?
Message no. 57
From: Mongoose m0ng005e@*********.com
Subject: Wraiths
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 19:44:30 -0600
:Ah yes, the stupid question of how immortality is attained. Here's a
hint...
:
:Go Cybermantic...
:

People have said this before. I assume the basis is the supposed
Azanian use to extend certain peoples lives?
To me that sounds like an "emergency" extension, kinda like you'd get
on taxes- and about as useful for avoidance.
Cybermancy does not in any way grant "immunity to age", that I can
tell. On the contrary, it often causes cancer and other aging related,
unpreventable illness. Worse, it creates new survival threatening
problems (drug dependence, "better off dead", etc). Plus there is the
simple fact that Immortal is forever. I may be a pessimist, but I would
not lay odds on a cyberzombie being able to get the care s/he needs to
survive forever.
Even if those don't get you, the Chronic Disassociation Syndrome rolls
you must occasionally make are a problem. In the span of "forever", you
will fail enough of those CDS rolls that sooner or latter, it will get
you- especially since each failure makes subsequent treatment harder.
All this ignores what may be the most important factor for
immortality- the will to live. Its a lifestyle thing, and I don't think a
cyberzombie would be stable enough to stay alive for a century, let alone
millennia.

Mongoose
Message no. 58
From: Ereskanti@***.com Ereskanti@***.com
Subject: Wraiths
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:18:51 EST
In a message dated 2/15/1999 8:39:06 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
m0ng005e@*********.com writes:

> All this ignores what may be the most important factor for
> immortality- the will to live. Its a lifestyle thing, and I don't think a
> cyberzombie would be stable enough to stay alive for a century, let alone
> millennia.

Ah, but here's something that to me is the entire crux of the
argument/discussion. You are using this in the context of the "cyberzombie"
concept. I'm not necessarily going that far. What if the same kind of magic
were used upon a living, positive essence individual? Look at the mechanics
as they are established, they may suprise you.

-K
Message no. 59
From: Steadfast laughingman@*******.de
Subject: Wraiths
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 03:44:36 +0100
And so it came to happen that Ereskanti@***.com wrote in reply to
jestyr@*******.com.au:

> In a message dated 2/14/1999 4:36:51 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
> writes:
>
> >
> > I'm not debating the fact that Aina's immortal, I'm debating the fact that
> > she was immortal BEFORE the act in the picture. You still haven't provided
> > a source for that.
>
> Ah yes, the stupid question of how immortality is attained. Here's a hint...
>
> Go Cybermantic...

<Shadowrun tip>
A far cheaper way is to actually take some hostages, kill them very bloddy
and then get shot up on that place. As we all know in that other world (the
4th I'll seem to remember) the pattern of a place for example is influenced
from extremes happening on that place (either good or evil, although it
allways depends on the PoV). If you make enough carnage your name pattern
does intermix or leaves a small poriton of it in the pattern of the place
and thus you gain immortality. Please donate all of your worldly riches to
charity UP FRONT. So you better be carefull to let everyone know WHO is the
bloody murdere inside that building, otherwise all is for naught.
</Shadowrun tip>

--
__________________________________________
---> Steadfast
Selfproclaimed protector of Gerber
BABY's
Mmwahahahahaar...
"I have 'grosse bumm' in my Pocket!
Yes, a real 'GROSSE BUUMM'!"
German translation for Savalette Guardian.
__________________________________________
Message no. 60
From: Steadfast laughingman@*******.de
Subject: Wraiths
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 03:44:43 +0100
And so it came to happen that Ereskanti@***.comwrote in reply to
m0ng005e@*********.com:
>
> In a message dated 2/15/1999 8:39:06 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
>writes:
>
> > All this ignores what may be the most important factor for
> > immortality- the will to live. Its a lifestyle thing, and I don't think a
> > cyberzombie would be stable enough to stay alive for a century, let alone
> > millennia.
>
> Ah, but here's something that to me is the entire crux of the
> argument/discussion. You are using this in the context of the
"cyberzombie"
> concept. I'm not necessarily going that far. What if the same kind of magic
> were used upon a living, positive essence individual? Look at the mechanics
> as they are established, they may suprise you.
>
> -K

Hm, dosn't the concept of becoming a cyberzombie ultimatly needs one
ingredence? It is needed that you are killed by means of zero or negative
essence.
--
__________________________________________
---> Steadfast
Selfproclaimed protector of Gerber
BABY's
Mmwahahahahaar...
"I have 'grosse bumm' in my Pocket!
Yes, a real 'GROSSE BUUMM'!"
German translation for Savalette Guardian.
__________________________________________
Message no. 61
From: Steadfast laughingman@*******.de
Subject: Wraiths
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 03:45:05 +0100
And so it came to happen that chimerae@***.ie wrote in reply to Gurth:
>
> > In WWE, Ysrtgrathe (sp? does anyone else get the impression Caroline
> > Spector just hit random keys as well? :)
>
> No not really, I tried and it's very hard to get that name by random
> keystrokes. But they did come up with a suitable unwritable name in
> the good old Chtulu... Cthulu... (or whatever) tradition.
> Maybe they got the horror name from mages who tried to pronounce
> their true name (which must be far worse than that).

Actually my Theory is as follows:

Ysrtgrathe --> the graY srt (shadowrun time)
Y
srt
gra
the
After having figured the ultimate truth of this I am a bit stranded, what
did the author trie to express with that??? May, if that horror comes to us
then the time for Shadowruns is ahm, gray? Is that good?
;o)

<snip>
--
__________________________________________
---> Steadfast
Selfproclaimed protector of Gerber
BABY's
Mmwahahahahaar...
"I have 'grosse bumm' in my Pocket!
Yes, a real 'GROSSE BUUMM'!"
German translation for Savalette Guardian.
__________________________________________
Message no. 62
From: Ereskanti@***.com Ereskanti@***.com
Subject: Wraiths
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 21:04:43 EST
In a message dated 2/18/1999 11:01:30 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
laughingman@*******.de writes:

>
> Hm, dosn't the concept of becoming a cyberzombie ultimatly needs one
> ingredence? It is needed that you are killed by means of zero or negative
> essence.
> --
Actually, no, it doesn't. It *might* involve killing someone or something
(sentient probably) that is *close* to the person however.

-K
Message no. 63
From: eryk@*********.net (Adam)
Subject: Wraiths
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 13:34:15 +0100
Why wraiths aren't described in "Critters".

They appear in various materials but aren't described there.
What gives.

Could someone please give me their statistics and description.

Greets
- Adam
Message no. 64
From: nightgyr@*********.com.au (GreyWolf)
Subject: Wraiths
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 00:28:30 +1100
> Why wraiths aren't described in "Critters".
>
> They appear in various materials but aren't described there.
> What gives.
>
> Could someone please give me their statistics and description.
>
> Greets
> - Adam

Hi Adam,

See the critter section under "spectre" and "ghost". Wriath' are
usually
trated as spectres of unusual power IIRC.

GreyWolf
Message no. 65
From: zebulingod@*****.com (Zebulin Magby)
Subject: Wraiths
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 06:45:16 -0800
"GreyWolf" <nightgyr@*********.com.au> wrote:

> > Why wraiths aren't described in "Critters".
> >
> > They appear in various materials but aren't described there.
> > What gives.
> >
> > Could someone please give me their statistics and description.
> >
> > Greets
> > - Adam
>
> Hi Adam,
>
> See the critter section under "spectre" and "ghost". Wriath' are
usually
> trated as spectres of unusual power IIRC.
>
> GreyWolf
>

I don't know, unusual power doesn't begin to describe them! *egmg* They are
listed in PAoE in a complete form, but as I'm moving now, I do not have the
book to look them up. They are, however, great to use as a force leveler
when the resident minigun-toting munchkin with a Willpower of 2 decides to
turn the gun on his fellow runners.

"Wait, you want me to resist what kind of damage? *croak*"

Zebulin
Message no. 66
From: davidb@****.imcprint.com (Graht)
Subject: Wraiths
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 07:52:14 -0700
At 01:34 PM 3/27/2003 +0100, Adam wrote:
>Why wraiths aren't described in "Critters".
>
>They appear in various materials but aren't described there.
>What gives.
>
>Could someone please give me their statistics and description.

They're on Steve Kenson's web site.

http://members.aol.com/talonmail/wraiths.html

--
To Life,
-Graht
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader II
http://www.graht.com
Message no. 67
From: bull@*********.com (Bull)
Subject: Wraiths
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 10:00:42 -0500
At 07:52 AM 3/27/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>At 01:34 PM 3/27/2003 +0100, Adam wrote:
>>Why wraiths aren't described in "Critters".
>>
>>They appear in various materials but aren't described there.
>>What gives.
>>
>>Could someone please give me their statistics and description.
>
>They're on Steve Kenson's web site.

They were also candidates to appear in Boo Scary when that came out, but
since that books on indefinite hold... <sigh>

Bull
Message no. 68
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: Wraiths
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 19:28:01 +0100
According to GreyWolf, on Thursday 27 March 2003 14:28 the word on the
street was...

> See the critter section under "spectre" and "ghost". Wriath' are
usually
> trated as spectres of unusual power IIRC.

*g* Yeah, right... :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Als Michael Jackson een auto was, had hij heel Halfords leeggekocht"
-- Ruud de Wild
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 69
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: Wraiths
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 19:28:53 +0100
According to Adam, on Thursday 27 March 2003 13:34 the word on the street
was...

> Could someone please give me their statistics and description.

Like Graht said, check Steve Kenson's page for an SR3 version. I _think_
this is slightly less nasty than the SRII version, but it's been a while
since I looked.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Als Michael Jackson een auto was, had hij heel Halfords leeggekocht"
-- Ruud de Wild
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 70
From: anders@**********.com (Anders Swenson)
Subject: Wraiths
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 10:30:59 -0800
On Thu, 27 Mar 2003 19:28:01 +0100
Gurth <gurth@******.nl> wrote:
> According to GreyWolf, on Thursday 27 March 2003 14:28 the word on the
> street was...
>
> > See the critter section under "spectre" and "ghost". Wriath'
are usually
> > trated as spectres of unusual power IIRC.
>
> *g* Yeah, right... :)
>
An SOUS? [grin]
--Anders
Message no. 71
From: davidb@****.imcprint.com (Graht)
Subject: Wraiths
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 11:52:41 -0700
At 07:28 PM 3/27/2003 +0100, Gurth wrote:
>According to Adam, on Thursday 27 March 2003 13:34 the word on the street
>was...
>
> > Could someone please give me their statistics and description.
>
>Like Graht said, check Steve Kenson's page for an SR3 version. I _think_
>this is slightly less nasty than the SRII version, but it's been a while
>since I looked.

IIRC, the SR3 version is nastier. I don't think the SRII version drained
Karma...

--
To Life,
-Graht
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader II
http://www.graht.com
Message no. 72
From: eryk@*********.net (Adam)
Subject: Wraiths
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 00:34:25 +0100
> > > See the critter section under "spectre" and "ghost".
Wriath' are
usually
> > > trated as spectres of unusual power IIRC.
> >
> > *g* Yeah, right... :)
> >
> An SOUS? [grin]
> --Anders

(???)
I don't get it...

A.
Message no. 73
From: eryk@*********.net (Adam)
Subject: Wraiths
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 00:37:32 +0100
> >Why wraiths aren't described in "Critters".
> >
> >They appear in various materials but aren't described there.
> >What gives.
> >
> >Could someone please give me their statistics and description.
>
> They're on Steve Kenson's web site.
>
> http://members.aol.com/talonmail/wraiths.html

Thanks!
That's all I was looking for.
Other articles are good too.

Know of any others web sites from SR-creators?

PZDR
--Adam
Message no. 74
From: davidb@****.imcprint.com (Graht)
Subject: Wraiths
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 16:53:54 -0700
At 12:37 AM 3/28/2003 +0100, Adam wrote:
> > >Why wraiths aren't described in "Critters".
> > >
> > >They appear in various materials but aren't described there.
> > >What gives.
> > >
> > >Could someone please give me their statistics and description.
> >
> > They're on Steve Kenson's web site.
> >
> > http://members.aol.com/talonmail/wraiths.html
>
>Thanks!
>That's all I was looking for.
>Other articles are good too.
>
>Know of any others web sites from SR-creators?

http://www.jakkoke.com/

--
To Life,
-Graht
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader II
http://www.graht.com
Message no. 75
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: Wraiths
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 10:47:08 +0100
According to Graht, on Thursday 27 March 2003 19:52 the word on the street
was...

> IIRC, the SR3 version is nastier. I don't think the SRII version
> drained Karma...

In that case, you're probably right :) The SRII version "just" gained in
Spirit Energy every time someone under its control inflicted damage on
someone else...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Als Michael Jackson een auto was, had hij heel Halfords leeggekocht"
-- Ruud de Wild
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 76
From: davidb@****.imcprint.com (Graht)
Subject: Wraiths
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 07:54:08 -0700
At 10:47 AM 3/28/2003 +0100, Gurth wrote:
>According to Graht, on Thursday 27 March 2003 19:52 the word on the street
>was...
>
> > IIRC, the SR3 version is nastier. I don't think the SRII version
> > drained Karma...
>
>In that case, you're probably right :) The SRII version "just" gained in
>Spirit Energy every time someone under its control inflicted damage on
>someone else...

Actually, Steve's SRIII version does the same, just with different
flavor. The SRIII Wraith gains spirit energy by draining it's victims of
karma pool. The SRII Wraith didn't affect the victim's karma pool.

From Steve Kenson's site:

>Wraiths use their powers of Compulsion, Fear, and Influence to inspire
>violence among other intelligent beings. Once it has caused a being to
>commit an act of violence that results in at least one box of damage to
>another intelligent being, the Wraith may begin to drain Karma from its
>victim. The victim permanently loses 1 point of Karma Pool for each minute
>under the Wraith's influence. This Karma is added to the Wraith's total
>and may be used to increase its Spirit Energy.

It's a nasty, nasty critter <egmg>.

--
To Life,
-Graht
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader II
http://www.graht.com
Message no. 77
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: Wraiths
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 13:11:15 +0100
According to Graht, on Friday 28 March 2003 15:54 the word on the street
was...

> Actually, Steve's SRIII version does the same, just with different
> flavor. The SRIII Wraith gains spirit energy by draining it's victims
> of karma pool. The SRII Wraith didn't affect the victim's karma pool.
>
> From Steve Kenson's site:
[snip]

That's even worse than before. I love it :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Als Michael Jackson een auto was, had hij heel Halfords leeggekocht"
-- Ruud de Wild
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

Further Reading

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