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Message no. 1
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Wussy Paranormals.
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 09:02:04 +0000
Okay, I hope Predator and Prey fixes this
[small thought....you know, we are all going to know 95% of 3rd
edition before it comes out....New Matrix rules, new vehicle rules,
new critter rules. looks like the real point to 3rd edition (aside
from compiling) is to fix Grounding]

I had my runners (while breaking into the tamanous facility) run into
some guards and hellhounds.

The player started popping off shots. Down 1 hound. down 2 hound.
The hounds were now at close range. I grin, my evil GM Grin, and say
"You are bathed in flames". Whip out PNONA to glance at hound
powers, and PNOE to see the second edition versions of the powers.
"The hellhound nails you for......6L?!?!?!?!?!" down 3 hound. down
4 hound. sigh.


Here are my questions:

1) The Opposed test between Critter Essence and Player
Willpower....for which powers is this used? What happens when the
player wins? (Most of my players have Willpower 6, a few go as low
as 4)

2) Flame Projection does (Essence) L damage? What's the point?

-=SwiftOne=-
Brett Borger
SwiftOne@***.edu
AAP Techie
Message no. 2
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Wussy Paranormals.
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 07:59:06 -0600
Brett Borger wrote:
|
| The player started popping off shots. Down 1 hound. down 2 hound.
| The hounds were now at close range. I grin, my evil GM Grin, and say
| "You are bathed in flames". Whip out PNONA to glance at hound
| powers, and PNOE to see the second edition versions of the powers.
| "The hellhound nails you for......6L?!?!?!?!?!" down 3 hound. down
| 4 hound. sigh.

Those stats are the baseline. The GM is encouraged to adjust those
numbers to meet the needs of his campaign. And don't forget threat
ratings.

| Here are my questions:
|
| 1) The Opposed test between Critter Essence and Player
| Willpower....for which powers is this used? What happens when the
| player wins? (Most of my players have Willpower 6, a few go as low
| as 4)

The essence vs character stat test is used for just about every
power.

FWIW, my house rule for opposed test is to use a base target number
of 4 (instead of the opposing stats). This makes things a little
more iffy and speeds up the game.

If it's a damaging power I run it like weapons combat (the character
has to stage the attack down to zero to avoid damage).

| 2) Flame Projection does (Essence) L damage? What's the point?

Here's something people often forget. 6L flame may not hurt the
characters but it will start a fire. A fire can increase in
intensity very quickly (flame from a burning curtain can engulf a
room in a minute). And the combination of fire, lack of oxygen
(being consumed by the fire) and the fumes (SR 2050 is a synthetic
society) are going to be a major hassle. And if the PCs are lucky
enough to be in an area with a fire suppression system that means
that the fire alarm has just been activated which brings a whole lot
of attention (fire dept., police, security, media, etc.).

And if they're really unlucky the fire suppression system won't be
water based. It'll be one of those gases that replaces all the
available oxygen (very common in computer rooms and labs). They
resist the 6L breath only to find themselves passing out from oxygen
deprivation.

Fire bad.

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
Message no. 3
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Wussy Paranormals.
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 10:25:02 +0000
> Those stats are the baseline. The GM is encouraged to adjust those
> numbers to meet the needs of his campaign. And don't forget threat
> ratings.

I didn't, but the point was the powers were wussy.

> FWIW, my house rule for opposed test is to use a base target number
> of 4 (instead of the opposing stats). This makes things a little
> more iffy and speeds up the game.
...
> If it's a damaging power I run it like weapons combat (the character
> has to stage the attack down to zero to avoid damage).

See below

> Here's something people often forget. 6L flame may not hurt the
> characters but it will start a fire. A fire can increase in
> intensity very quickly (flame from a burning curtain can engulf a
> room in a minute). And the combination of fire, lack of oxygen
> (being consumed by the fire) and the fumes (SR 2050 is a synthetic
> society) are going to be a major hassle. And if the PCs are lucky
> enough to be in an area with a fire suppression system that means
> that the fire alarm has just been activated which brings a whole lot
> of attention (fire dept., police, security, media, etc.).

Umm...In this case, the character was outdoors. I could, in theory,
start a fire on his clothing, (One does have troubles doing stop drop
and roll with a few hellhounds all over you), but this is a large
leap from the conventional rules. Also, this character had Magic
Resistance 4, and even without it, quashed the opposed test.
So....would he be flambe or not? What are some rules to cover this?
Basically I was left with fire breathing doggies that did no damage.
A real bummer.

Fire not bad enough.

-=SwiftOne=-
Brett Borger
SwiftOne@***.edu
AAP Techie
Message no. 4
From: Drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Wussy Paranormals.
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 10:44:15 +0500
On 7 Oct 97 at 10:25, Brett Borger wrote:

> Umm...In this case, the character was outdoors. I could, in theory,
> start a fire on his clothing, (One does have troubles doing stop
> drop and roll with a few hellhounds all over you), but this is a
> large leap from the conventional rules.

Why? Elemental effect of fire is in the rules. Catching his clothes
and gear on fire is fair game, as well as cooking off explosive
rounds. Fun fun.

> Fire not bad enough.

Its as bad as you make it.

--
drekhead@***.net
++++
Sig file lost.
++++
Message no. 5
From: Matthew James Cheale <M.J.Cheale1@*******.DERBY.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Wussy Paranormals.
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 15:47:59 +0000
Surely the fire breathing is similar to the flame thrower spell.
It's a physical entity really so wouldn't it come under normal fire
rules?
I've got the book I'll peruse it tonight.
"There coming out of the god-damned walls!"
Message no. 6
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Wussy Paranormals.
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 11:13:18 +0000
> Why? Elemental effect of fire is in the rules. Catching his clothes
> and gear on fire is fair game, as well as cooking off explosive
> rounds. Fun fun.

Ah, but do I treat it as Combat type-fire or Manipulation type fire?
But I take your point. My only other complaint is that powers so
often don't work. (But that's cuz my players love high willpower)

-=SwiftOne=-
(Who still thinks L is too low)
Brett Borger
SwiftOne@***.edu
AAP Techie
Message no. 7
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Wussy Paranormals.
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 11:29:45 -0600
Brett Borger wrote:
|
| ...
| Also, this character had Magic
| Resistance 4, and even without it, quashed the opposed test.

Fire resistance shouldn't be applied, IMO. The fiery breath of a hell
hound may have a magic origin, but it's normal fire.

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
Message no. 8
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Wussy Paranormals.
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 13:58:57 +0000
> | Also, this character had Magic
> | Resistance 4, and even without it, quashed the opposed test.
>
> Fire resistance shouldn't be applied, IMO. The fiery breath of a hell
> hound may have a magic origin, but it's normal fire.

Such was my ruling, but I wasn't too sure about it.

-=SwiftOne=-
Brett Borger
SwiftOne@***.edu
AAP Techie
Message no. 9
From: Sebastion Wires <landsquid@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Wussy Paranormals.
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 13:14:38 PDT
>From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
>Subject: Wussy Paranormals.


>1) The Opposed test between Critter Essence and Player
>Willpower....for which powers is this used? What happens when the
>player wins? (Most of my players have Willpower 6, a few go as low
>as 4)
>

Nothing. Its like a resisted spell. Most of the powers expilcitly list
what test is used, with what attributes. With fear, I think, the
targets TN is TWICE the biengs essnce. EAK.

>2) Flame Projection does (Essence) L damage? What's the point?

The point is, it is a ranged attack, and the damage can be staged up.
I'm not sure if the attack dice are essence or reaction- I think
reaction, which is real good for hellhounds. Also, it goes vs 1/2
impact armor (I think- most elemental effects do), can cook off ammo,
destroy fetishes and electronics, etc. Also, it is AREA EFFECT- essence
square meters for most creatures. A 6 meter by 1 meter swath of flame
makes a very good "walked fire" effect.

Mongoose- "Niiice doggy"

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Message no. 10
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Wussy Paranormals.
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 17:52:36 -0700
---Brett Borger wrote:
>
> Here are my questions:
>
> 1) The Opposed test between Critter Essence and Player
> Willpower....for which powers is this used?

Common sense should be used for what attributes a critter rolls for
what powers. Things like Flame Projection I treat as Ranged Combat.
Powers like Influence or Fear pit Essence againt Willpower.

> 2) Flame Projection does (Essence) L damage? What's the point?

Treat it as ranged combat rolling Reaction + Threat Rating to stage it
up (like you would with a Fire Elemental). Gets a bit nastier that
way. I also rule Flame Projection is resited by 1/2 Impact armor. ;o)

Another thing I personally do to make my Critters and Spirits more
unpredictable is roll their initiative dice as open ended 6's. Keeps
the players on their toes as they have an idea how fast a vanilla
Hellhound _should_ go, but every now and then there's that one that
gets a burst of adrenaline. <EGMG>

-== Loki ==-
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
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SRTCG trade lists last updated 9/29/97
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Message no. 11
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Wussy Paranormals.
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 22:17:18 -0400
In a message dated 97-10-07 08:57:44 EDT, bxb121@***.EDU writes:

> Here are my questions:
>
> 1) The Opposed test between Critter Essence and Player
> Willpower....for which powers is this used? What happens when the
> player wins? (Most of my players have Willpower 6, a few go as low
> as 4)

Where on earth does Willpower come into play with a physical power?

> 2) Flame Projection does (Essence) L damage? What's the point?

Try an idea. For every hound after the first, all caught in the flames have
the target number increased by an additional point. Also, paranorms using
powers and are more than two or three at a time in a group, could also
generate a background count and make life hellish (grin) for the party
magicians.

As for the guys "gunning 'em down", low and behold, some rigger watching via
a "collar camera" informs his guys to "sniper the snipers" and the
game
becomes a bit more fair.

-K
Message no. 12
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Wussy Paranormals.
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 22:23:41 -0400
In a message dated 97-10-07 09:58:37 EDT, dbuehrer@****.ORG writes:

> And if they're really unlucky the fire suppression system won't be
> water based. It'll be one of those gases that replaces all the
> available oxygen (very common in computer rooms and labs). They
> resist the 6L breath only to find themselves passing out from oxygen
> deprivation.
>
> Fire bad.
>
> -David
>
Yes I know, tell that to the guys on the PBEM (Aztlan) .. and the Backdraft's
occuring by a malignant, nasty tempered firebeing (a variation on Accident,
with an elemental effect attached).

-K (evil grin)
Message no. 13
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Wussy Paranormals.
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 23:02:09 -0400
In a message dated 97-10-07 10:20:35 EDT, bxb121@***.EDU writes:

>
> Umm...In this case, the character was outdoors. I could, in theory,
> start a fire on his clothing, (One does have troubles doing stop drop
> and roll with a few hellhounds all over you), but this is a large
> leap from the conventional rules. Also, this character had Magic
> Resistance 4, and even without it, quashed the opposed test.
> So....would he be flambe or not? What are some rules to cover this?
> Basically I was left with fire breathing doggies that did no damage.
> A real bummer.

A really neat idea that I used a LONG time ago for a firedrake pet a mage had
was a spell "Malignant Flame"....it was a spell that enhanced the combustion
levels of a given area. Target number of a "6", sustained...net successes
meant additional dice to a given "flame attack". Additionally, for every two
net (Net of the Net) successes, the target number for the resisting of the
flame was increased by a point of Power.

> Fire not bad enough.

How about now?
-K
Message no. 14
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Wussy Paranormals.
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 23:37:06 -0400
In a message dated 97-10-07 13:30:25 EDT, dbuehrer@****.ORG writes:

> Also, this character had Magic
> | Resistance 4, and even without it, quashed the opposed test.
>
> Fire resistance shouldn't be applied, IMO. The fiery breath of a hell
> hound may have a magic origin, but it's normal fire.
>
Actually, after looking at Magic Resistance (assuming this is a Phys Ad with
the power here), it states that the ability does NOT work on a Paranormal
Critter powers. Page 117 of the Awakenings.

What a thought....Neh?
-K
Message no. 15
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Wussy Paranormals.
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 22:23:19 -0700
---Brett Borger wrote:
>
> > Why? Elemental effect of fire is in the rules. Catching his clothes
> > and gear on fire is fair game, as well as cooking off explosive
> > rounds. Fun fun.
>
> Ah, but do I treat it as Combat type-fire or Manipulation type fire?
> But I take your point. My only other complaint is that powers so
> often don't work. (But that's cuz my players love high willpower)

Then use powers that don't go off Willpower.

Flame Projection, Electrical Projection, Accident, ... (These are ones
off the top of my head.)

Also, background count is a fun GM trick to use when you're group is
used to walking over Critters. I had a pack of Hellhounds once that
lived around a "site of power" in the tribal lands. The locale had a
background count of +2. Since the hounds had lived and hunted around
the area for a quite a while, they were use to harnessing this power
on an innate level. I allowed the hounds to modify their T#'s when
using powers by -2. Big suprise on my players faces when they compared
these wild boys to the usual security version of Hellhound.

-== Loki ==-
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
Fearless Leader of the Shadowrun Trading Card Game Mailing List
SRCard FAQ: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/srstuff/tcgfaq1.htm
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr
SRTCG trade lists last updated 9/29/97
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
Message no. 16
From: Tim Cooper <z-i-m@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Wussy Paranormals.
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 01:25:11 EDT
On Tue, 7 Oct 1997 09:02:04 +0000 Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU> writes:

[snip all the other comments]

A few thoughts... most of which have already been posted, so let's just
call this a summary.

1. Like other's have said, resolve the attack like ranged combat, giving
the 'hound Attribute+Threat dice to hit and stage up damage. And only
allow 1/2 impact like all other 'elemental' attacks.

2. Apply secondary effects... clothing, hair, disguises, ammo and etc.
go up in smoke.

3. Remember that Hellhounds are pack hunters... Sure, one hit of 6L (or
more) is nothing to worry about, but what about a half dozen, or even a
dozen, such hits as the pack turns whereever your party is standing into
a mini-firestorm. [either have each additional hound contribute to the
'power', or, for an even more lethal solution... the damage level, or a
combination thereof]

4. (Essence)M anyone? Like the books say, the stats and powers of the
critters are merely an 'observed average', and individual specimens are
known to vary. Hell (no pun intended - well, OK, maybe a little).. maybe
the corp had them bred for an especially hot flame projection.

~Tim
Message no. 17
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Wussy Paranormals.
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 11:55:49 +0100
Brett Borger said on 11:13/ 7 Oct 97...

> Ah, but do I treat it as Combat type-fire or Manipulation type fire?

I'd say manipulation, as the power affects the victim from the outside,
like a DM spell does.

> But I take your point. My only other complaint is that powers so
> often don't work. (But that's cuz my players love high willpower)

That's made worse by the fact that many powers work at one-half the
number of successes rolled. That way even if the critter manages to get
one or two successes it still doesn't do much, if anything at all.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
The stupid is always possible.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 18
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Wussy Paranormals.
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 11:55:49 +0100
Brett Borger said on 9:02/ 7 Oct 97...

> "The hellhound nails you for......6L?!?!?!?!?!" down 3 hound. down
> 4 hound. sigh.

Sigh indeed. Critters are underpowered, if you ask me, in a large part due
to the resistance tests (see below).

> Here are my questions:
>
> 1) The Opposed test between Critter Essence and Player
> Willpower....for which powers is this used? What happens when the
> player wins? (Most of my players have Willpower 6, a few go as low
> as 4)

PAoE indicates which powers require an opposed test. It's hidden in the
power description somewhere, though, so you'll have to fully read the text
of the powers you want to use before throwing them against your players.
This is a bit hard in an on-the-fly adventure, though.

> 2) Flame Projection does (Essence) L damage? What's the point?

Dragons have a much higher Essence, so they'll give you in the order of
12L with a load of successes behind it. That's not so easy to shake off as
the 6L of a hellhound.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
The stupid is always possible.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 19
From: Ray & Tamara <macey@***.BRISNET.ORG.AU>
Subject: Re: Wussy Paranormals.
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 15:56:09 +1000
Drekhead wrote:
> Why? Elemental effect of fire is in the rules. Catching his clothes
> and gear on fire is fair game, as well as cooking off explosive
> rounds. Fun fun.

If you are talking about the rules in the Grimoire, then as they stand you
actually have to do damage to actually set things on fire.

NightRain.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| The universe is a big place, and whatever happens, you will not be missed |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

EMAIL: macey@***.brisnet.org.au
Message no. 20
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Wussy Paranormals.
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 07:39:05 +0000
> > 1) The Opposed test between Critter Essence and Player
> > Willpower....for which powers is this used? What happens when the
> > player wins? (Most of my players have Willpower 6, a few go as low
> > as 4)
>
> Where on earth does Willpower come into play with a physical power?
>
That was my question. And seeing as how responses have been 50/50 as
to whether or not I use it, I don't think the question was all that
unreasonable (the book certainly doesn't make it crystal clear).
Personally, I like Loki's "use Common Sense" angle, which appears to
jive with your answer, but in a friendlier manner. :-)

> > 2) Flame Projection does (Essence) L damage? What's the point?
>
> Try an idea. For every hound after the first, all caught in the flames have
> the target number increased by an additional point. Also, paranorms using
> powers and are more than two or three at a time in a group, could also
> generate a background count and make life hellish (grin) for the party
> magicians.
>
> As for the guys "gunning 'em down", low and behold, some rigger watching
via
> a "collar camera" informs his guys to "sniper the snipers" and
the game
> becomes a bit more fair.

Sadly, the hounds had only two attacks before begin mowed down.
Rolling 6 die + 3 threat , the hounds were quashed by the character
rolling 6 resistance die with 3/2=1 armor. Oh well.

-=SwiftOne=-
Brett Borger
SwiftOne@***.edu
AAP Techie
Message no. 21
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Wussy Paranormals.
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 07:40:26 +0000
> > Also, this character had Magic
> > | Resistance 4, and even without it, quashed the opposed test.
> >
> > Fire resistance shouldn't be applied, IMO. The fiery breath of a hell
> > hound may have a magic origin, but it's normal fire.
> >
> Actually, after looking at Magic Resistance (assuming this is a Phys Ad with
> the power here), it states that the ability does NOT work on a Paranormal
> Critter powers. Page 117 of the Awakenings.

Actually, it was the edge which, as with so many of the unbalanced
edges, works the same way, so.....thanks.

-=SwiftOne=-
Brett Borger
SwiftOne@***.edu
AAP Techie
Message no. 22
From: Drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Wussy Paranormals.
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 09:53:42 +0500
On 8 Oct 97 at 15:56, Ray & Tamara wrote:

> Drekhead wrote:
> > Why? Elemental effect of fire is in the rules. Catching his clothes
> > and gear on fire is fair game, as well as cooking off explosive
> > rounds. Fun fun.
>
> If you are talking about the rules in the Grimoire, then as they
> stand you actually have to do damage to actually set things on fire.

Are you sure about that? I don't have my book with me, but I thought
elemental effects happened regardless of the spell result, especially
with DM's.

--

drekhead@***.net
++++
Sig file lost.
++++
Message no. 23
From: Tim Cooper <z-i-m@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Wussy Paranormals.
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 18:40:26 EDT
On Tue, 7 Oct 1997 22:23:19 -0700 Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM> writes:

>Also, background count is a fun GM trick to use when you're group is
>used to walking over Critters. I had a pack of Hellhounds once that
>lived around a "site of power" in the tribal lands. The locale had a
>background count of +2. Since the hounds had lived and hunted around
>the area for a quite a while, they were use to harnessing this power
>on an innate level. I allowed the hounds to modify their T#'s when
>using powers by -2. Big suprise on my players faces when they compared
>these wild boys to the usual security version of Hellhound.

Interesting idea... a bit like taking on a toxic spirit in it's own
domain right?
I like it. :)

~Tim
Message no. 24
From: Ray & Tamara <macey@***.BRISNET.ORG.AU>
Subject: Re: Wussy Paranormals.
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 15:23:31 +1000
Drekhead wrote:
> > If you are talking about the rules in the Grimoire, then as they
> > stand you actually have to do damage to actually set things on fire.
>
> Are you sure about that? I don't have my book with me, but I thought
> elemental effects happened regardless of the spell result, especially
> with DM's.

If I read it correctly, the table on p.113 of the Grimoire says that you need
to actually do a moderate wound with a DM spell to get secondary elemental
effects. I also assume that the same applies to Combat spells with elemental
effects, though it does not actually say this.
NightRain.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| The universe is a big place, and whatever happens, you will not be missed |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

EMAIL: macey@***.brisnet.org.au
Message no. 25
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Wussy Paranormals.
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 17:24:10 -0700
---Ray & Tamara wrote:
>
> Drekhead wrote:
> > > If you are talking about the rules in the Grimoire, then as they
> > > stand you actually have to do damage to actually set things on
fire.
> >
> > Are you sure about that? I don't have my book with me, but I
thought
> > elemental effects happened regardless of the spell result,
especially
> > with DM's.
>
> If I read it correctly, the table on p.113 of the Grimoire says that
you need
> to actually do a moderate wound with a DM spell to get secondary
elemental
> effects. I also assume that the same applies to Combat spells with
elemental
> effects, though it does not actually say this.

I don't have the book with me. However, I believe it says something
like combat spells are less likely to produce secondary elemental
effects and thus add a +2 to the ORT when rolling for secondary damage.

-== Loki ==-
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SRTCG trade lists last updated 10/8/97

_____________________________________________________________________
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Message no. 26
From: Ray & Tamara <macey@***.BRISNET.ORG.AU>
Subject: Re: Wussy Paranormals.
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 21:51:54 +1000
Loki wrote:
> > If I read it correctly, the table on p.113 of the Grimoire says that
> you need
> > to actually do a moderate wound with a DM spell to get secondary
> elemental
> > effects. I also assume that the same applies to Combat spells with
> elemental
> > effects, though it does not actually say this.
>
> I don't have the book with me. However, I believe it says something
> like combat spells are less likely to produce secondary elemental
> effects and thus add a +2 to the ORT when rolling for secondary damage.

I was just being pedantic. You are completely correct. The point is to
reduce the effect of combat spells by adding an extra modifier when you roll
on the little table, but it doesn't actually say you have to roll on the
table for combat spells. If this was taken as it was written, you would not
actually need to do any damage to make it 'burn' or whatever.

NightRain.

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EMAIL: macey@***.brisnet.org.au

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