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Message no. 1
From: Robert Davidson <kenlon@*******.COM>
Subject: Wyrmy's character
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 14:52:24 PST
>My stats.Please send me your stats.Also send Jazz your stats,and tell
>him Wyrmy said you were in the group.


>Wyrmy wrote:
<snip>
<Snip>
>> magic:24
<snip>
>> Pools:magic:thru the roof Combat:4 karma:10 Good karma:1
>> skills:spellcasting/spellcasting/detection spells :25/27/29
<Snip some skills>
<Snip mass of spells at level 6>
<Snip>
>> Has just sorta appeared out of the mists,so to speak.

Have you considered joining Munchkins Anonymous?

Kenlon
"Life without pain is not worth living."

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Message no. 2
From: "tyrell hughes (Wyrmy)" <elfman@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: Wyrmy's character
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 17:54:22 -0600
Robert Davidson wrote:
>
> >My stats.Please send me your stats.Also send Jazz your stats,and tell
> >him Wyrmy said you were in the group.
>
> >Wyrmy wrote:
> <snip>
> <Snip>
> >> magic:24
> <snip>
> >> Pools:magic:thru the roof Combat:4 karma:10 Good karma:1
> >> skills:spellcasting/spellcasting/detection spells :25/27/29
> <Snip some skills>
> <Snip mass of spells at level 6>
> <Snip>
> >> Has just sorta appeared out of the mists,so to speak.
>
> Have you considered joining Munchkins Anonymous?
>

If youve had a this character as long as I've had him,in the situations
I've had him in,You'd have the same abilities as I do.or did any ways.i
say when the essence/ body index costs equal your original magic
rating,you lose all your magic points.Even iniate points.that means no
meta-magic,no nothing.change that magic to zero,and add th edge of
dualnature(because of my newly got Guyver suit)
Message no. 3
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Wyrmy's character
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 01:15:36 -0500
On Fri, 16 Jan 1998 19:20:33 +0000 Frank Pelletier
<jeanpell@****.IVIC.QC.CA> writes:

>No... Guyver suits... Skills at 25... ack... *cough* *gasp* *choke*
>
>Even legendary characters such as Bull (ego stroke! ego stroke!)don't
even


I have yet to figure out why it is that you have such problems with
Bull... Bull's been around awhile, from what I've caught off the list,
here and there, so it's not somebody plopped 600 karma in Steve's lap and
said, "have fun, now." I'm reasonably certain that Tinner makes him earn
what he gets (one way or the other, I suppose;). That the power level of
that particular campaign has escalated to the point of street
legend-status over the course of those events surprises me little.

And if Bull gives you strokes, remind me to explain Canthros to you some
time... :)


>claim to have skills that high... And I've played my main character for
3 years
>now, and his highest skill is an 8... Please, for the love of God,
either play
>with some sense, or stop posting these monsters... It's SHADOWRUN, not
>Rifts. :)


Hell, *Dunkelzahn* didn't have claim to skills that high! And I've seen
stats to back it up:)


>But...
>
>That's an interresting question. We all know we should'nt talk about
>playing styles. I know, I know, you bought the damn game, you play the
>way you want it... And that's great. But where do you draw the line? I
>mean, you can have characters with God-like powers, but posting them?
>Is there a limit where 99% of this list is gonna go "God...DAMN!"? And
if
>so... should we know about it? That's my question... What's the maximum
>power level a SR campaign should have, one where most of the readers
won't
>throw up when they read about it?...


Let me put it this way: Although I think you may be over-reacting (but
only a tad, mind you), it's probably a safe assumption that most
listmembers have a similar opinion as far as such things go. I nearly
choked, myself:) OTOH, remember: Tyrell's like, 14 years old. What were
*your* goals for a character at that age? (I know what mine were;)

--
John Pederson Canthros, the shapeshifter-mage
<<-------------------------------------------------------------->>
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
<<-------------------------------------------------------------->>
lobo1@****.com canthros1@***.com john.e.pederson@***********.edu
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/4864 ICQ UIN 3190186
Message no. 4
From: Frank Pelletier <jeanpell@****.IVIC.QC.CA>
Subject: Re: Wyrmy's character
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 02:13:53 +0000
John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM> once wrote,

(snipped)

> I have yet to figure out why it is that you have such problems with
> Bull... Bull's been around awhile, from what I've caught off the list,
> here and there, so it's not somebody plopped 600 karma in Steve's lap and
> said, "have fun, now." I'm reasonably certain that Tinner makes him earn
> what he gets (one way or the other, I suppose;). That the power level of
> that particular campaign has escalated to the point of street
> legend-status over the course of those events surprises me little.
>
> And if Bull gives you strokes, remind me to explain Canthros to you some
> time... :)

Uhh... Never said Bull was overpowered...I know he's been around of
awhile, and I respect that... And stroking one's ego means rubbing him
the right way, respecting the guy... You know, there are 2 definitions to
the word "stroke"... One is painful..the other is...ya know... more fun
with your girlfriend :)

(snipped)

> >That's an interresting question. We all know we should'nt talk about
> >playing styles. I know, I know, you bought the damn game, you play the
> >way you want it... And that's great. But where do you draw the line? I
> >mean, you can have characters with God-like powers, but posting them?
> >Is there a limit where 99% of this list is gonna go "God...DAMN!"? And
> if
> >so... should we know about it? That's my question... What's the maximum
> >power level a SR campaign should have, one where most of the readers
> won't
> >throw up when they read about it?...
>
>
> Let me put it this way: Although I think you may be over-reacting (but
> only a tad, mind you), it's probably a safe assumption that most
> listmembers have a similar opinion as far as such things go. I nearly
> choked, myself:) OTOH, remember: Tyrell's like, 14 years old. What were
> *your* goals for a character at that age? (I know what mine were;)

Similar, I admit... but not on that level (heck, I barely made it to level
16 in AD&D)... and I didn't bother "grown-ups" or people who had other,
more important things to do with my over-the-top stats either...

Trinity
------------------------------------------------------
Frank Pelletier
Trinity@********.com, jeanpell@****.qc.ca

"Life is a blur"
Message no. 5
From: Zixx <t_berghoff@*********.NETSURF.DE>
Subject: Re: Wyrmy's character
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 17:46:51 +0000
On 16 Jan 98 at 14:52, Robert Davidson wrote:

> >My stats.Please send me your stats.Also send Jazz your stats,and tell
> >him Wyrmy said you were in the group.
>
>
> >Wyrmy wrote:
> <snip>
> <Snip>
> >> magic:24
> <snip>
> >> Pools:magic:thru the roof Combat:4 karma:10 Good karma:1
> >> skills:spellcasting/spellcasting/detection spells :25/27/29
> <Snip some skills>
> <Snip mass of spells at level 6>
> <Snip>
> >> Has just sorta appeared out of the mists,so to speak.
>
> Have you considered joining Munchkins Anonymous?

Damn, he's the CEO!
(Hey Keith, is Binder jealous already? :))

Tobias Berghoff a.k.a Zixx a.k.a. Charon, your friendly werepanther physad.

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK------------
GAT/CS/S/IT d--- s+:- !a>? C++(++++)
UL++(++++) P+ L++ E W+ N+(+++) o? K?(-)
w---() O- M-- V- PS+ PE- Y+>++ PGP-
t+(++) 5+ X++ R* tv b++ DI(+) D++ G>++
e>+++++(*) h! r-- z?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK-------------
Message no. 6
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Wyrmy's character
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 12:14:53 -0500
>That's an interresting question. We all know we should'nt talk about
>playing styles. I know, I know, you bought the damn game, you play the
>way you want it... And that's great. But where do you draw the line? I
>mean, you can have characters with God-like powers, but posting them?
>Is there a limit where 99% of this list is gonna go "God...DAMN!"? And if
>so... should we know about it? That's my question... What's the maximum
>power level a SR campaign should have, one where most of the readers won't
>throw up when they read about it?...

There is no "maximum power level"
SR can handle whatever the players and GM's feel like playing.
You want Guyver suits, fine.
You want lowlifes with pistols, fine.
SR can do both.

It's all a matter of what the players like, and the GM can handle.
I didn't set out to run a campaign wherein Bull and the other players turned
into "god-PC's" It just turned out that way.
The first run Bull went on, he and his coyote shaman partner got their heads
handed to them by a single ghoul!
The second run involved the shaman getting KO'd by a pizza delivery boy
armed with a flashpak!
As the story has progressed over the last 5 or so years (with the first two
and a half years we were playing every other night) the PC's just naturally
gained power, and now the campaign NEEDS something a little tougher.

Don't get your short in a bunch over "over-powered" characters.
If you don't like them, don't use them, and don't play that way.
But don't take the extremely arrogant tone of telling someone that they're
playing "wrong."

To each his own.

Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com/users/bluewizard
"Sado-Pacifist"
Message no. 7
From: Frank Pelletier <jeanpell@****.IVIC.QC.CA>
Subject: Re: Wyrmy's character
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 12:35:32 +0000
"Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM> once wrote,

(snipped my part)

> There is no "maximum power level"
> SR can handle whatever the players and GM's feel like playing.
> You want Guyver suits, fine.
> You want lowlifes with pistols, fine.
> SR can do both.
>
> It's all a matter of what the players like, and the GM can handle.
> I didn't set out to run a campaign wherein Bull and the other players turned
> into "god-PC's" It just turned out that way.
> The first run Bull went on, he and his coyote shaman partner got their heads
> handed to them by a single ghoul!
> The second run involved the shaman getting KO'd by a pizza delivery boy
> armed with a flashpak!
> As the story has progressed over the last 5 or so years (with the first two
> and a half years we were playing every other night) the PC's just naturally
> gained power, and now the campaign NEEDS something a little tougher.
>
> Don't get your short in a bunch over "over-powered" characters.
> If you don't like them, don't use them, and don't play that way.
> But don't take the extremely arrogant tone of telling someone that they're
> playing "wrong."

That was not my problem to begin with... as I stated, since you bought the
game, you have every right in the world to play it any damn way you want.
That's very cool. That's your game, you do what you want, and more power
to you. Great. Super. Everyone knows that's the way it works.

Now, my problem is with the posting and/or general knowledge of such
campaigns. Should a general purpose mailing list like ShadowRN be exposed
(couldn't find another word, sorry) to very, very high-class characters...
off the scale, so to speak (and, please remember that, as posted, Wyrmy's
character (if, after all, they are true) are more powerful than monsters
like Ronnabwy (sp?), a great dragon in Prime Runners).

Heck, I think I ran with Bull once on IRC. It was cool. I knew he was
powerful, but with careful roleplaying, that didn't matter much. He
didn't run around throwing pickup trucks or hacking into the Black Heart of
MCT just for kicks... he was a runner like every other runner. But I never saw
his stats, nor did he brag about them. Would that have changed by perception
of the game had I known them? Probably... There's a huge margin between
saying "There's no one better than me with a pistol" and "I gots me a 25
Firearms skill"... That's why I prefer infinitly much seeing a "legend"
like Bull living without stats or bragging (for all we know, Bull could be
a lowly moron :) ), then someone posting a huge slab of stats on us (in
the form of some kind of personal ad).

Now, you can all flame me...

Trinity
-----------------------------------------------------
Frank Pelletier
Trinity@********.com, jeanpell@****.qc.ca

"Life is a blur"
Message no. 8
From: The Storyteller <elfman@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: Wyrmy's character
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 12:00:10 -0600
Steven A. Tinner wrote:
>
> >That's an interresting question. We all know we should'nt talk about
> >playing styles. I know, I know, you bought the damn game, you play the
> >way you want it... And that's great. But where do you draw the line? I
> >mean, you can have characters with God-like powers, but posting them?
> >Is there a limit where 99% of this list is gonna go "God...DAMN!"? And
if
> >so... should we know about it? That's my question... What's the maximum
> >power level a SR campaign should have, one where most of the readers won't
> >throw up when they read about it?...
>
> There is no "maximum power level"
> SR can handle whatever the players and GM's feel like playing.
> You want Guyver suits, fine.
> You want lowlifes with pistols, fine.
> SR can do both.
>
> It's all a matter of what the players like, and the GM can handle.
> I didn't set out to run a campaign wherein Bull and the other players turned
> into "god-PC's" It just turned out that way.
> The first run Bull went on, he and his coyote shaman partner got their heads
> handed to them by a single ghoul!
> The second run involved the shaman getting KO'd by a pizza delivery boy
> armed with a flashpak!
> As the story has progressed over the last 5 or so years (with the first two
> and a half years we were playing every other night) the PC's just naturally
> gained power, and now the campaign NEEDS something a little tougher.
>
> Don't get your short in a bunch over "over-powered" characters.
> If you don't like them, don't use them, and don't play that way.
> But don't take the extremely arrogant tone of telling someone that they're
> playing "wrong."
>
> To each his own.

Thank you very much Tinner.That is my entire point.The Guyver suit is
going to be the arch nemeisis ofd a semi powerful physad in my game.That
Really powerful Eagle shaman?He's going to be the nemeisis of my
street-mage char.Each person in my group will have an arch-nemeisis,and
those baddys will team up on the runners.The Runners will get beaten
many times before finaly destroying the badd-guys.I'll tell you guys
what happens(or at least what I have planned anyways)So now I need to
put a spoiler in here.
s
p
o
i
l
e
r

f
o
r

m
y

g
r
o
u
p

When they beat these baddguys, because they went through so many
trials,some of the more essence-ly challenged (cybered) Characters will
gain Various magical powers(Jazz learns he has the power of telekinesis)
While others will die like Storyteller.He is severely wounded in the
fight with the evil eagle shaman.He defeats the shaman,but ends up
killing himself doing it.As storyteller dies,he asks jazz to find the
mage Manaman,and to tell him Storyteller's dead.manaman Will nkow what
to do from there.
That is what I have planned for My group.
Message no. 9
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Wyrmy's character
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 13:30:57 EST
In a message dated 98-01-17 12:39:47 EST, jeanpell@****.IVIC.QC.CA writes:

> Now, you can all flame me...
>
> Trinity

You know something Trinity, nothing you said in your previous post (about ways
of playing with powerful characters vs. "braggarts") was incorrect. It's just
a shame that your initial choice of words (from a previous posting to that)
created that impression.

What you said about "choices of roleplaying" is probably everything in the
world to the definition of Role-Playing, SR or any game.

I know, Binder's in a similar situation that Bull and Barbie is. Over time,
"power" simply comes to a person/character, as long as self-development is
pursued. Recently Binder deemed it necessary to sacrifice his entire grade
(VERY high by anyone's standards) in an effort to simply ensure everyone
survived. But it fit perfectly with the role-playing of the character and the
development of the game itself. Has Binder quit being played by myself? Hell
no, he's been given a chance to "do it all over again", and he even gets to
remember the mistakes he made previously. So he's gonna try. And he's gonna
keep "living" and keep "trying" until he feels completely "tried
out".

I've never, as a player, ever believed in a character reaching it's limits.
Limits to a particular game scenario or game power level, perhaps and/or yes
even. But never a character.

-K
Message no. 10
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Wyrmy's character
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 13:34:52 EST
In a message dated 98-01-17 12:17:26 EST, bluewizard@*****.COM writes:

> >That's an interresting question. We all know we should'nt talk about
> >playing styles. I know, I know, you bought the damn game, you play the
> >way you want it... And that's great. But where do you draw the line? I
> >mean, you can have characters with God-like powers, but posting them?
> >Is there a limit where 99% of this list is gonna go "God...DAMN!"? And
if
> >so... should we know about it? That's my question... What's the maximum
> >power level a SR campaign should have, one where most of the readers won't
> >throw up when they read about it?...

Maybe, but as long as I count as the "1%", there won't be much of a limit....

> There is no "maximum power level"
> SR can handle whatever the players and GM's feel like playing.
> You want Guyver suits, fine.
> You want lowlifes with pistols, fine.
> SR can do both.

Nicely said Tinner...

> It's all a matter of what the players like, and the GM can handle.
> I didn't set out to run a campaign wherein Bull and the other players
turned
> into "god-PC's" It just turned out that way.

Sounds familiar...

> The first run Bull went on, he and his coyote shaman partner got their
heads
> handed to them by a single ghoul!

I remember Binder's first "run"...street rat in the Atlanta Killgrounds...yep,
that was fun...

> The second run involved the shaman getting KO'd by a pizza delivery boy
> armed with a flashpak!

I wonder if it was the same pizza delivery guy who got eaten by the vamps and
shapers in my earlier games???

> As the story has progressed over the last 5 or so years (with the first two
> and a half years we were playing every other night) the PC's just naturally
> gained power, and now the campaign NEEDS something a little tougher.

Oh yeah, sounds very familiar.

> Don't get your short in a bunch over "over-powered" characters.
> If you don't like them, don't use them, and don't play that way.
> But don't take the extremely arrogant tone of telling someone that they're
> playing "wrong."

"Wrong" is part of the POV arguments anyway...

> To each his own.
> Steven A. Tinner
> bluewizard@*****.com
> http://www.ncweb.com/users/bluewizard
> "Sado-Pacifist"

Oh yeah, righ, this last line belongs here....NOT!!! ;)

-K
Message no. 11
From: s c rose <scrose@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Wyrmy's character
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 09:21:01 -0600
Ereskanti wrote:
> > As the story has progressed over the last 5 or so years (with the first two
> > and a half years we were playing every other night) the PC's just naturally
> > gained power, and now the campaign NEEDS something a little tougher.
>
> Oh yeah, sounds very familiar.
>
> > Don't get your short in a bunch over "over-powered" characters.
> > If you don't like them, don't use them, and don't play that way.
> > But don't take the extremely arrogant tone of telling someone that they're
> > playing "wrong."

A PC in any game over time can get very powerful given enough time and
not ending up flatlined.
This is really true in an open ended system like shadowrun. Earn over
600 Kamra spend years working
with the same character etc. Can and does turn any character into a demi
god or at the very least
living legends. With skills well into the double digets and a good
number of them to boot. This doesn't
even consider what the dice pools look like.
Message no. 12
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Wyrmy's character
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 17:45:42 +0100
At 17-Jan-98 wrote John E Pederson:

>On Fri, 16 Jan 1998 19:20:33 +0000 Frank Pelletier
><jeanpell@****.IVIC.QC.CA> writes:

>>No... Guyver suits... Skills at 25... ack... *cough* *gasp* *choke*
>>
>>Even legendary characters such as Bull (ego stroke! ego stroke!)don't
>even

Hmm, let me look, Barbie has skills above 20.



>And if Bull gives you strokes, remind me to explain Canthros to you some
>time... :)

I have seen Bull stats, in my power game at home he would be moderate.



--

Barbie
---------------------------------------------------------------
Did you know what a rhinoceros is?
All that is left from the unicorn.

http://www.amigaworld.com/barbie
FAQ keeper of SR_D, the german Shadowrun mailing list.
Amiga RC5 Team effort member.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 13
From: Wyrmy <elfman@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: Wyrmy's character
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 11:48:39 -0600
> I have seen Bull stats, in my power game at home he would be moderate.
>

If Bull is moderate, then What Am I?
Message no. 14
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Wyrmy's character
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 19:16:19 +0100
At 18-Jan-98 wrote Wyrmy:



>If Bull is moderate, then What Am I?

Hmm, the char Wyrmy you posted?

Good question. If you play him real smart he would last sometime, if not...
<shrug> could been instant death in the first combat action.

--

Barbie
---------------------------------------------------------------
Did you know what a rhinoceros is?
All that is left from the unicorn.

http://www.amigaworld.com/barbie
FAQ keeper of SR_D, the german Shadowrun mailing list.
Amiga RC5 Team effort member.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 15
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Wyrmy's character
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 09:02:05 -0500
>Now, my problem is with the posting and/or general knowledge of such
>campaigns. Should a general purpose mailing list like ShadowRN be exposed
>(couldn't find another word, sorry) to very, very high-class characters...
>off the scale, so to speak (and, please remember that, as posted, Wyrmy's
>character (if, after all, they are true) are more powerful than monsters
>like Ronnabwy (sp?), a great dragon in Prime Runners).

It's real simple.
You said it yourself - this is a "General Purpose mailing list" (although I
don't think that's in any FAQ - AFAIK, the list is for ALL things SR
related)
As long as Wyrmy is on-topic, and sticks to something SR related, then he
can post stats for Horrors, Immortal Elves, whatever.
Why should the fact that his character has stats higher than PUBLISHED great
dragons change that?
Personally, I could use a caracter like that to slap my players around with.
(And I really don't think his character was THAT strong.)

One of the biggest complaints with a published FASA book was about Prime
Runners.
Most people thought that the NPC's in there were too WEAK.
I have to agree, I had to upgrade a number of them myself before I used
them.
If Wyrmy wants to post monster-PC's, more power to him.
I don't see why it's even an issue?

>Now, you can all flame me...

I'm not much for flames, merely stating a point.
Agree or disagree, your choice, won't affect me, or my posts in the least.
;-)

Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com/users/bluewizard
"Sado-Pacifist"
Message no. 16
From: Wyrmy <elfman@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: Wyrmy's character
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 02:32:50 -0600
> (And I really don't think his character was THAT strong.)

The only things that were strong was my Magical stats.And the universe I
play in,You have high magic,so you can toss stronger juju, or you end up
a flameing pile of ashes.Oh and I need to Add a bower bolt at force 15
,and a force 14 nitro(see my webpage)to my spell list.:^)
--
new school/Old school magic: Powerbolt and an air elemental. New school
magic: Take a right at the Metaplane of Infinite Stromboli, past the
Metaplane of Helga, to the Big Flashing Neon Pandas. Tell the watcher
"Mel" sent you.
Message no. 17
From: Zixx <t_berghoff@*********.NETSURF.DE>
Subject: Re: Wyrmy's character
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 16:24:31 +0000
On 18 Jan 98 at 9:21, s c rose wrote:

> Ereskanti wrote:
> > > As the story has progressed over the last 5 or so years (with the first
two
> > > and a half years we were playing every other night) the PC's just
naturally
> > > gained power, and now the campaign NEEDS something a little tougher.
> >
> > Oh yeah, sounds very familiar.
> >
> > > Don't get your short in a bunch over "over-powered" characters.
> > > If you don't like them, don't use them, and don't play that way.
> > > But don't take the extremely arrogant tone of telling someone that they're
> > > playing "wrong."
>
> A PC in any game over time can get very powerful given enough time and
> not ending up flatlined.
> This is really true in an open ended system like shadowrun. Earn over
> 600 Kamra spend years working
> with the same character etc. Can and does turn any character into a demi
> god or at the very least
> living legends. With skills well into the double digets and a good
> number of them to boot. This doesn't
> even consider what the dice pools look like.

There are ways around this. Believe me.
First: *Don't* allow the Attribute*1,5 rule. Max is max and that's it (Just
imagine a person with strenght 9! He would look like Hulk on steroids (And
I mean the comic-version!)
Second: Ever though about how much training you'd need to keep a skill at,
say 10 (without any magical- or cyber-boosts?)? In my game we say that once
you go over skill 9, you spend all your time training. Of course, a physad
can have skill 8 plus another 8 from magic and have unarmed combat at 16,
but he'd have so spend at least 6 hours per day training. If he doesn't, he
loses one level.
Another method could be to say that once you've reached a certain level,
you have to spend karma equal to the skill-level per month to keep it at
that level.


Tobias Berghoff a.k.a Zixx a.k.a. Charon, your friendly werepanther physad.

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK------------
GAT/CS/S/IT d--- s+:- !a>? C++(++++)
UL++(++++) P+ L++ E W+ N+(+++) o? K?(-)
w---() O- M-- V- PS+ PE- Y+>++ PGP-
t+(++) 5+ X++ R* tv b++ DI(+) D++ G>++
e>+++++(*) h! r-- z?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK-------------
Message no. 18
From: William Gallas <wgallas@*****.FR>
Subject: Re: Wyrmy's character
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 16:35:49 +0100
>There are ways around this. Believe me.
>First: *Don't* allow the Attribute*1,5 rule. Max is max and that's it (Just
>imagine a person with strenght 9! He would look like Hulk on steroids (And
>I mean the comic-version!)

This doesn't count cyber enhancements. Strength 6 plus muscle augmentation
4 gives a strength of 10.

>Second: Ever though about how much training you'd need to keep a skill at,
>say 10 (without any magical- or cyber-boosts?)? In my game we say that once
>you go over skill 9, you spend all your time training. Of course, a physad
>can have skill 8 plus another 8 from magic and have unarmed combat at 16,
>but he'd have so spend at least 6 hours per day training. If he doesn't, he
>loses one level.
>Another method could be to say that once you've reached a certain level,
>you have to spend karma equal to the skill-level per month to keep it at
>that level.

I don't like this. If you think your players get too many karma, give 'em
less.
Skills cost a lot of karma to not give so much (there isn't a big
difference between firearms 8 and firearms 9 if you ask me).


Cobra.

E-mail adress : wgallas@*****.fr
Quote : "Never trust an elf"
Message no. 19
From: Frank Pelletier <jeanpell@****.IVIC.QC.CA>
Subject: Re: Wyrmy's character
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 23:00:26 +0000
Barbie <barbie@**********.COM> once wrote,

> At 17-Jan-98 wrote John E Pederson:
>
> >On Fri, 16 Jan 1998 19:20:33 +0000 Frank Pelletier
> ><jeanpell@****.IVIC.QC.CA> writes:
>
> >>No... Guyver suits... Skills at 25... ack... *cough* *gasp* *choke*
> >>
> >>Even legendary characters such as Bull (ego stroke! ego stroke!)don't
> >even
>
> Hmm, let me look, Barbie has skills above 20.
>
>
>
> >And if Bull gives you strokes, remind me to explain Canthros to you some
> >time... :)
>
> I have seen Bull stats, in my power game at home he would be moderate.

Yeah..but Barbie..you're special...:)

(Did anyone forget to give her her medication?)

Trinity
------------------------------------------------------
Frank Pelletier
Trinity@********.com, jeanpell@****.qc.ca

"Life is a blur"
Message no. 20
From: Zixx <t_berghoff@*********.NETSURF.DE>
Subject: Re: Wyrmy's character
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 21:57:33 +0000
On 19 Jan 98 at 16:35, William Gallas wrote:

> >There are ways around this. Believe me.
> >First: *Don't* allow the Attribute*1,5 rule. Max is max and that's it (Just
> >imagine a person with strenght 9! He would look like Hulk on steroids (And
> >I mean the comic-version!)
>
> This doesn't count cyber enhancements. Strength 6 plus muscle augmentation
> 4 gives a strength of 10.

I was talking about natural strength. Though even cyber and bio add to the
muscle mass, making a strangth 10 char look more than redicolous.

> >Second: Ever though about how much training you'd need to keep a skill at,
> >say 10 (without any magical- or cyber-boosts?)? In my game we say that once
> >you go over skill 9, you spend all your time training. Of course, a physad
> >can have skill 8 plus another 8 from magic and have unarmed combat at 16,
> >but he'd have so spend at least 6 hours per day training. If he doesn't, he
> >loses one level.
> >Another method could be to say that once you've reached a certain level,
> >you have to spend karma equal to the skill-level per month to keep it at
> >that level.
>
> I don't like this. If you think your players get too many karma, give 'em
> less.

If they lay good, they deserve it. I just won't let them make skill-levels
that are more unrealistic than SR's damage-system!

> Skills cost a lot of karma to not give so much (there isn't a big
> difference between firearms 8 and firearms 9 if you ask me).

Oh well, two dice, if you add combat pool. Besides, I made it 8, because
that would really prevent people from getting skills at 20+...


Tobias Berghoff a.k.a Zixx a.k.a. Charon, your friendly werepanther physad.

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK------------
GAT/CS/S/IT d--- s+:- !a>? C++(++++)
UL++(++++) P+ L++ E W+ N+(+++) o? K?(-)
w---() O- M-- V- PS+ PE- Y+>++ PGP-
t+(++) 5+ X++ R* tv b++ DI(+) D++ G>++
e>+++++(*) h! r-- z?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK-------------
Message no. 21
From: William Gallas <wgallas@*****.FR>
Subject: Re: Wyrmy's character
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 10:01:34 +0100
>Oh well, two dice, if you add combat pool. Besides, I made it 8, because
>that would really prevent people from getting skills at 20+...

I agree on this one. Anyway, in my game, characters have skills of maximum
8. If they did want want to rise it above, I would allow them. :)


Cobra.

E-mail adress : wgallas@*****.fr
Quote : "Never trust an elf"
Message no. 22
From: Andy Gardner <A.Gardner@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Wyrmy's character
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 21:25:15 +0000
On Tue, 20 Jan 1998 10:01:34 +0100 William Gallas wrote

> >Oh well, two dice, if you add combat pool. Besides, I made it 8, because
> >that would really prevent people from getting skills at 20+...
>
> I agree on this one. Anyway, in my game, characters have skills of maximum
> 8. If they did want want to rise it above, I would allow them. :)

IMO the SRComp rules for time taken to advance in skills prevent this
problem anyway. Just think, taking a specialisation to 20 costs 20
Karma = 140 days base time. Base time reduced by test of old skill
(19 dice) v TN 22. If no successes increase base time by 50% to 210
days. And these days are spent almost entirely in training.
Admittedly still too short for realism but also too long for most SR
campaign purposes, especially with the time taken to get to level 19
in the first place.

Having said that I personally only enforce the time taken rule if the
skill is going above 4. I consider 4 to be a reasonable standard and
if training times are enforced too much the characters don't advance
much which can leave players frustrated.


Fox on the Net
ICQ UIN - 5239612
Message no. 23
From: Zixx <t_berghoff@*********.NETSURF.DE>
Subject: Re: Wyrmy's character
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 22:33:14 +0000
On 20 Jan 98 at 10:01, William Gallas wrote:

> >Oh well, two dice, if you add combat pool. Besides, I made it 8, because
> >that would really prevent people from getting skills at 20+...
>
> I agree on this one. Anyway, in my game, characters have skills of maximum
> 8. If they did want want to rise it above, I would allow them. :)

I didn't want to make a definate "You can't!". So I just made it "Sure you
can. It's bogus, but hey, you can..."...



Tobias Berghoff a.k.a Zixx a.k.a. Charon, your friendly werepanther physad.

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK------------
GAT/CS/S/IT d--- s+:- !a>? C++(++++)
UL++(++++) P+ L++ E W+ N+(+++) o? K?(-)
w---() O- M-- V- PS+ PE- Y+>++ PGP-
t+(++) 5+ X++ R* tv b++ DI(+) D++ G>++
e>+++++(*) h! r-- z?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK-------------

Further Reading

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Thwap!