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Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: Paolo Marcucci <paolo@*********.IT>
Subject: X-mas and AI
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 11:31:35 +0100
Ok, two questions:

1) The X-mas thingy... have someone of you seen "Jingle all the way",
With our beloved samurai Arnie? It will be the feature "Christmas run"
for my group ::::)) <- usual Horror Smiley (TM) (add an evil GM grin
somewhere in the previous sentence)

2) Artificial Intelligence's citizenship. Gibson's novels have the
notion of citizenship for powerful AIs. Do the Shadowrun world (if there
will be AIs in this, of course :) will have this status? An AI could
contact the runners to collect evidences and clues about it's "aliving"
in order to get a citizenship status, making so able to run for the next
elections :)

Absorbe and digest. Eventually reply.
--
_________________________________________________________________
Paolo Marcucci paolo@*********.it
Message no. 2
From: Sight Unseen <toabo@****.UTEXAS.EDU>
Subject: Re: X-mas and AI
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 14:29:27 -0500
>2) Artificial Intelligence's citizenship. Gibson's novels have the
>notion of citizenship for powerful AIs. Do the Shadowrun world (if there
>will be AIs in this, of course :) will have this status? An AI could
>contact the runners to collect evidences and clues about it's "aliving"
>in order to get a citizenship status, making so able to run for the next
>elections :)

But since an AI doesn't have a fixed physical location per se,
where is it a citizen of?
Besides, would voters really throw their support behind an entity
with no physical presence?

Peace and Long Life,

Scott
Message no. 3
From: Timothy P Cooper <tpcooper@***.CSUPOMONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: X-mas and AI
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 10:12:49 -0800
Thats the nth time that I've heard references to "Gibson". Can anybody give me
some titles and his full name, so as to better
facilitate my next literary binge?

~Tim

E-Mail: tpcooper@***.csupomona.edu
Message no. 4
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: X-mas and AI
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 12:27:49 +0100
Sight Unseen said on 14:29/19 Nov 96...

> But since an AI doesn't have a fixed physical location per se,
> where is it a citizen of?

What are you trying to say? I'm in the Netherlands right now, but I can
quite easily hop across the border to Belgium => I don't have a fixed
location, still I'm a Dutch citizen...

> Besides, would voters really throw their support behind an entity
> with no physical presence?

That I doubt, at least when the AIs first get granted citizenship... A
few decades to a few centuries later, who knows...?

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
That's when it all gets blown away.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 5
From: The Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: X-mas and AI
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 09:05:05 +1100
> But since an AI doesn't have a fixed physical location per se,
> where is it a citizen of?

A citizen of Corp X.
Remember, so many people in the 6th world don't say "I'm from <insert
country>", they say they're from <insert Corp>. National citizenship means
a lot less in SR than it does now...


Lady Jestyr

--------------------------------------------------
A titanic intellect... in a world full of icebergs
--------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.oz.au
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1503
--------------------------------------------------
Message no. 6
From: IEngelmann@***.COM
Subject: Re: X-mas and AI
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 17:11:32 -0500
Scott wrote:

>>2) Artificial Intelligence's citizenship. Gibson's novels have the
>>notion of citizenship for powerful AIs. Do the Shadowrun world (if there
>>will be AIs in this, of course :) will have this status? An AI could
>>contact the runners to collect evidences and clues about it's "aliving"
>>in order to get a citizenship status, making so able to run for the next
>>elections :)
>
> But since an AI doesn't have a fixed physical location per se,
>where is it a citizen of?

Maybe of the Matrix?!?

> Besides, would voters really throw their support behind an entity
>with no physical presence?

Yeah, why not? If there's enough evidence that it exists.
It's sort of the same with money. Actually it doesn't exist, but everybody
believes in it and lives for it. :)

Ilja
Message no. 7
From: The Crucible <crucible@******.MUR.CSU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: X-mas and AI
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 09:43:25 +1100
> 2) Artificial Intelligence's citizenship. Gibson's novels have the
> notion of citizenship for powerful AIs. Do the Shadowrun world (if there
> will be AIs in this, of course :) will have this status? An AI could
> contact the runners to collect evidences and clues about it's "aliving"
> in order to get a citizenship status, making so able to run for the next
> elections :)
>

The AIs did have citizenship but they also had limited powers due to
specified parts of their coding stopping their learning on some things...
this -was- overcome by Case in Neuromancer... but that doesnt mean that
all AIs were free... just the two that joined at the end of the novel
(Although the AI did get in contact with Case and say there were others
on Alpha Centuri).

Maybe you could turn that novel into a run.... but as for
elections etc... I think the "Turning Authorities" would have something
to say about that.....
I think that limited citizenship applied... ie Not able to go for an
election because an AI could be programmed with hardcode to stop it or to
control it in some way... (Much like the end of Robocop where the guy had
programmed him not to kill a member of the company (Forgot the name) and
although he "learned" things he still had that problem that he couldnt
overcome his basic programming).

(btw All from memory so appologies if I stuffed up somewhere ;)

Crucible

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Message no. 8
From: The Crucible <crucible@******.MUR.CSU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: X-mas and AI
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 09:53:45 +1100
On Tue, 19 Nov 1996, Sight Unseen wrote:

> >2) Artificial Intelligence's citizenship. Gibson's novels have the
> >notion of citizenship for powerful AIs. Do the Shadowrun world (if there
> >will be AIs in this, of course :) will have this status? An AI could
> >contact the runners to collect evidences and clues about it's "aliving"
> >in order to get a citizenship status, making so able to run for the next
> >elections :)
>
> But since an AI doesn't have a fixed physical location per se,
> where is it a citizen of?
> Besides, would voters really throw their support behind an entity
> with no physical presence?
>

According to Gibson it was Sweden I think (Neuromancer) and as for voters
going for it... well.... I dont really think so... but then again Johnny
got to be Prime Minister so anythings possible...

Crucible

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|email: |
| crucible@******.mur.csu.edu.au (Use this one first)|
| crucible@******.net |
| 94043950@********.mur.csu.edu.au (Student account) |
|homepage: http://itclub.mur.csu.edu.au/~crucible/ |
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Message no. 9
From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: X-mas and AI -Reply
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 10:31:18 -0500
>Maybe you could turn that novel into a run.... but as for elections etc... I think
>the "Turning Authorities" would have something to say about that.....

Make that Turing Authorities, named after the Turing test, which is one proposed
test for when we have achieved a full AI: have people communicate via written
messages with something in a "black box", either a real person or a computer.
If
an observer can't figure out whether the thing he's talking to is a person or a
computer, the computer is an AI.

Double-Domed Mike

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Thwap!