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Message no. 1
From: Ereskanti@***.com Ereskanti@***.com
Subject: Year of the Comet (Poll)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 21:37:51 EST
Okay folks, I've been reading, listening, and watching the various degrees of
feedback that exist all over the place now concerning "Year of the Comet".
I'm fairly curious about people's actual opinions of a "Space Game" in a
Shadowrun Gaming Universe.

As such, if people would please email me *DIRECTLY* with their opinions and
such, I'm going to compile an "unofficial" poll concerning the topic to FASA
Corporation (yes, in case anyone can't notice, I'm irked at the level of
"gaming apathy" that has developed again recently).

Come on folks, let me read (or hear if you *really* want to call me, you can
find my number yourselves) your opinions.

Come on folks, PLEASE!!!! Get some imagination going again here ... WYRMY,
you're back on this, start up *something* interesting....

-K
[Hoosier Hacker House]
[http://members.aol.com/hhackerh/index.html]
ICQ#-51511837
Message no. 2
From: Steven A. Tinner bluewizard@*****.com
Subject: Year of the Comet (Poll)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 22:49:21 -0500
>Okay folks, I've been reading, listening, and watching the various degrees
of
>feedback that exist all over the place now concerning "Year of the Comet".
>I'm fairly curious about people's actual opinions of a "Space Game" in a
>Shadowrun Gaming Universe.

I'm not even remotely interested in "Spacerun" or the new feature "Runners
in Spaaaaacccceeeee!"
However I DO want to see space covered in an official FASA product.
We need to know just what the Zurich Orbital is capable of.
Is it fitted with weapons? Smart-crowbars it can launch at earthly targets?
What kind of hideous glacial IC and Killing Jar systemology is utilized in
the corner of the Matrix?

You know what I'd really like to see?
I really, really, really want to know about Ares near-orbit/space mage
training program.
NO, don't make this available to PC's, but let's see a system for some
seriously kick-butt wizards that have been training in a low-mana habitat in
LEO.
I wanna see more of that guy who killed the bug/horror in that one short
story.

Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://listen.to/tinner
"Half of All Gamers Never Read the Rules, Half of All Gamers Argue About the
Rules, Unfortunately, Its the Same Half."
Message no. 3
From: MC23 mc23@**********.com
Subject: Year of the Comet (Poll)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 00:51:26 -0500
Once upon a time, Ereskanti@***.com wrote;

>Okay folks, I've been reading, listening, and watching the various degrees
>of feedback that exist all over the place now concerning "Year of the
>Comet". I'm fairly curious about people's actual opinions of a "Space
>Game" in a Shadowrun Gaming Universe.

I was under the impression that YotC was not solely focused on
space. That it will be about Haley's Comet and all the events that comets
historically harbinged. After all in Shadowrun, belief shapes the magic,
especially collected belief.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

"I know
I GOTTA BELIEVE !"
-Parappa the Rapper
I am MC23
Message no. 4
From: Ereskanti@***.com Ereskanti@***.com
Subject: Year of the Comet (Poll)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 01:40:41 EST
In a message dated 11/16/1999 12:52:20 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
mc23@**********.com writes:

> Once upon a time, Ereskanti@***.com wrote;
>
> >Okay folks, I've been reading, listening, and watching the various
degrees
> >of feedback that exist all over the place now concerning "Year of the
> >Comet". I'm fairly curious about people's actual opinions of a "Space

> >Game" in a Shadowrun Gaming Universe.
>
> I was under the impression that YotC was not solely focused on
> space. That it will be about Haley's Comet and all the events that comets
> historically harbinged. After all in Shadowrun, belief shapes the magic,
> especially collected belief.

You are correct MC23, that is the overall focus. However, the concept of a
"Run in Space" or "Shadowrun in Space" to be more specific has also
been
tossed around with considerable endurance. I'm merely wanting some feedback
on the idea.

-K
[Hoosier Hacker House]
[http://members.aol.com/hhackerh/index.html]
ICQ#-51511837
Message no. 5
From: Starrngr@***.com Starrngr@***.com
Subject: Year of the Comet (Poll)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 02:03:51 EST
In a message dated 11/15/1999 9:52:20 PM Pacific Standard Time,
mc23@**********.com writes:

> I was under the impression that YotC was not solely focused on
> space. That it will be about Haley's Comet and all the events that comets
> historically harbinged. After all in Shadowrun, belief shapes the magic,
> especially collected belief.

Granted, but thats not K's question. He want a feel for how many people are
interested in the space side of Shadowrun, something that hasn't been
decribed in any great depth yet. Personally, I have more of an interest in
the space side of Halley's return than the magical effects of it (SOA and
Tailchaser notwithstanding, K) but thats just because up until recently, I've
tended more twords deckers and riggers than mages or adepts.

--
Starrngr -- Ranger HQ
HTTP://home.talkcity.com/TheSanitarium/Da_Muck/

"You wear a Hawaiian shirt and bring your music on a RUN? No wonder they
call you Howling Mad..." -- Rabid the Pysad.
Message no. 6
From: dghost@****.com dghost@****.com
Subject: Year of the Comet (Poll)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 02:24:11 -0800
On Tue, 16 Nov 1999 01:40:41 EST Ereskanti@***.com writes:
<SNIP>
> You are correct MC23, that is the overall focus. However, the concept
of a
> "Run in Space" or "Shadowrun in Space" to be more specific has
also
been
> tossed around with considerable endurance. I'm merely wanting some
feedback
> on the idea.

Tossed around by you, FASA, or people in general?

--
D. Ghost
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
-Groucho Marx

___________________________________________________________________
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Message no. 7
From: Lee Decker deckerl@******.com
Subject: Year of the Comet (Poll)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 08:58:56 -0500
>
>
> >Okay folks, I've been reading, listening, and watching the
> various degrees
> of
> >feedback that exist all over the place now concerning "Year
> of the Comet".
> >I'm fairly curious about people's actual opinions of a
> "Space Game" in a
> >Shadowrun Gaming Universe.
>

I'm not that interested in the space area either. I don't mind them touching
on it, and think it will be interesting, but I don't want much focus on it.
Shadowrun and Cyberpunk
in general are children of the streets and cities to me, with occasional
forays into nature to add spice. If I want space, I'll go with Travller,
StarWars or something along those lines. Now if they want to put together an
optional campaign setting (sorta like they did
with Docwagon and the Feds in the Companion) I'm all for that.
Message no. 8
From: Ereskanti@***.com Ereskanti@***.com
Subject: Year of the Comet (Poll)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 11:23:38 EST
In a message dated 11/16/1999 3:14:52 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
dghost@****.com writes:

>
> Tossed around by you, FASA, or people in general?

ME!!! Sorry, this is *UNOFFICIAL*, not a FASA sponsored thing. I'm wanting
to continue my idea gathering and finding/obtaining directional feedback is a
required thing IMO.

-K
[Hoosier Hacker House]
[http://members.aol.com/hhackerh/index.html]
ICQ#-51511837
Message no. 9
From: JonSzeto@***.com JonSzeto@***.com
Subject: Year of the Comet (Poll)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 22:00:55 EST
Ereskanti@***.com wrote,

> Okay folks, I've been reading, listening, and watching the various degrees
of
> feedback that exist all over the place now concerning "Year of the Comet".

> I'm fairly curious about people's actual opinions of a "Space Game" in a
> Shadowrun Gaming Universe.
>
> As such, if people would please email me *DIRECTLY* with their opinions and
> such, I'm going to compile an "unofficial" poll concerning the topic to
FASA
> Corporation (yes, in case anyone can't notice, I'm irked at the level of
> "gaming apathy" that has developed again recently).
>
> Come on folks, let me read (or hear if you *really* want to call me, you
can
> find my number yourselves) your opinions.

I think part of the problem about "gaming apathy" regarding Shadowrun in
space or "space games" is that a lot of gamers have been oversold on the
idea that shadowrunners don't belong in outer space. Part of this
conception stems from the fundamental tenet that using magic in space is
very dangerous, almost fatally so. As magic is an integral part of
Shadowrun, when you take away half the game when you go into space, there's
not a lot of incentive to go there.

Another contributing factor is some of the earlier writing done for
Shadowrun, when writers tried to jackhammer home (with a mass driver) the
idea that space is the megacorps' playground, all in the name of over-
emphasizing the repressive nature of the megacorps. Nigel Findley was
particularly notorious for this, with some of the material he wrote for the
Neo-Anarchists' Guide to Real Life, Corporate Shadowfiles, and other
sourcebooks and novels. Don't get me wrong, Nigel did a lot to breathe life
into the Shadowrun universe. But as far as outer space was concerned, he
practically slammed the airlock shut and threw away the fragging key.

I think there are plenty of gaming opportunities for space in Shadowrun.
It's going to be a very hard sell, but it can be done. Not just merely the
impact things out there have on the shadows down here, but also reasons for
groundside shadowrunners to go "up the well," as well as a shadow scene
thriving in high orbit itself. It's going to require some innovation and
thinking outside of the box (if you'll pardon the cliche), but it's doable.
(More on ideas on shadowrunning in space at another time.)

I do agree that Trinity has a point, though, any treatment of "shadowspace"
is going to have to get the setting "just right." There should be methods
to allow characters to get away with using magic in space that does NOT
make them uber-magicians. And the science fiction involved should probably
be "harder" (more realistic) than what's commonly found in today's fare:
Most development takes place in orbit around earth. Deeper-space colonies
on the moon and at the LaGrange points exist, but they are few and far-
between. And travel to Mars and beyond takes months, maybe even years,
going one-way alone.

FWIW, I don't particularly agree with the notion that space doesn't
contribute to the cyberpunk atmosphere. The "patron saint of cyberpunk"
himself (Gibson, in case you didn't scan) used space a lot; a good part of
Neuromancer and Count Zero takes place in space, and several stories from
his Burning Chrome anthology dealt almost exclusively with outer space.
Other cyberpunk novels where space figures significantly include Voice of
the Whirlwind (by Walter Jon Williams) and the Eclipse trilogy (by John
Shirley). IIRC, Bruce Sterling also wrote some novels (Pebbles in the
Stream, perhaps?) where space played an important part, but I've
unfortunately lost my Sterling novels and don't remember very well.

Unfortunately, there very few films or television shows which capture the
right imagery and mood for cyberpunk or Shadowrun. The Alien series, of
course, is the most obvious candidate. Another dark horse candidate is the
movie Outland (filmed in the early/mid 80s, starring Sean Connery), which
takes place in a penal colony on one of Jupiter's moons. Also, if any of
the Brits here remember, the BBC aired a short-lived series called "Star
Cops" back in the late 80s. Although it's more of a detective-cop genre
than cyberpunk, I particularly liked the realistic hard-science setting
used in that show, in contrast to the somewhat space-opera-ish settings
that seem to color most space-based shows.

IMO.

-- Jon
Message no. 10
From: Ahrain Drigar ahrain_drigar@*******.com
Subject: Year of the Comet (Poll)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 02:22:14 EST
>From: JonSzeto@***.com
>Subject: Re: Year of the Comet (Poll)
>Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 22:00:55 EST
>
<Snip>
>-- Jon
>
>

VERY well "said". I agree 100%. The idea of space in SR does not
necessarily mean that the runners become Luke and Han.

I have been working on a campaign for some time now.....

s

p

o

i

l

e

r



s

p

a

c

e


... part of it is where the runners are becoming more corporate affiliated
over the course of the game (and yes by their choice....mostly), gaining
SIN's and the like. Their employer, an unnamed wannabe mega, will
eventually have the runners do 1) a data steal from an orbital thinktank and
2) do a little plain old sabotage on another station. Right now the only
magical character is a physad "gunman". No spells, no astral perception,
etc. I had planned on working a little on the fact that even though he
isn't a mage he will still be able to "sense", to some small degree, the
...unnaturalness, for lack of a better word, of outer space. Will do a
little to heighten the mood.
So IMHO space does not turn SR into RRUUUUNNNEERRRSSS IINNN
SSPPPAAAACCEEE!!!! And there is deffinately NOT a Captain Link Heartthrob
in my game (that they know of.....) :)

Ahrain


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Message no. 11
From: Bira ubiratan@**.homeshopping.com.br
Subject: Year of the Comet (Poll)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 12:55:03 -0200
On Tue, 16 Nov 1999 08:58:56 -0500
Lee Decker <deckerl@******.com> wrote:
> I'm not that interested in the space area either. I don't mind them touching
> on it, and think it will be interesting, but I don't want much focus on it.
> Shadowrun and Cyberpunk
> in general are children of the streets and cities to me, with occasional
> forays into nature to add spice. If I want space, I'll go with Travller,
> StarWars or something along those lines. Now if they want to put together an
> optional campaign setting (sorta like they did
> with Docwagon and the Feds in the Companion) I'm all for that.

As I said before, you have to give the right feel to space.
Space in a Cyberpunk game definitely won't be space opera :) . Think
Neuromancer with it's Zion Cluster :) .

Bira - SysOp da Shadowland.BR
http://members.xoom.com/slbr
http://www.terravista.pt/Nazare/2729
ICQ# 4055455
Message no. 12
From: Bira ubiratan@**.homeshopping.com.br
Subject: Year of the Comet (Poll)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 14:25:58 -0200
On Wed, 17 Nov 1999 02:22:14 EST
"Ahrain Drigar" <ahrain_drigar@*******.com> wrote:

>
> ... part of it is where the runners are becoming more corporate affiliated
> over the course of the game (and yes by their choice....mostly), gaining
> SIN's and the like. Their employer, an unnamed wannabe mega, will
> eventually have the runners do 1) a data steal from an orbital thinktank and
> 2) do a little plain old sabotage on another station. Right now the only
> magical character is a physad "gunman". No spells, no astral perception,
> etc. I had planned on working a little on the fact that even though he
> isn't a mage he will still be able to "sense", to some small degree, the
> ...unnaturalness, for lack of a better word, of outer space. Will do a
> little to heighten the mood.
> So IMHO space does not turn SR into RRUUUUNNNEERRRSSS IINNN
> SSPPPAAAACCEEE!!!! And there is deffinately NOT a Captain Link Heartthrob
> in my game (that they know of.....) :)
>
> Ahrain
>

As for getting to space, no sweat... Borrow more from William
Gibson and say you just have to take a JAL taxi and switch to a shuttle
once you get to their orbital hub :) . You can also replace JAL by your
corporate airline of choice, but they tend to ask more questions (unless
you make up a corp that deals only in orbital transport and makes a
point of avoiding thorough background checks :) ).


Bira - SysOp da Shadowland.BR
http://members.xoom.com/slbr
http://www.terravista.pt/Nazare/2729
ICQ# 4055455
Message no. 13
From: Ereskanti@***.com Ereskanti@***.com
Subject: Year of the Comet (Poll)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 14:15:12 EST
In a message dated 11/17/1999 11:42:40 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
ubiratan@**.homeshopping.com.br writes:

> As for getting to space, no sweat... Borrow more from William
> Gibson and say you just have to take a JAL taxi and switch to a shuttle
> once you get to their orbital hub :) . You can also replace JAL by your
> corporate airline of choice, but they tend to ask more questions (unless
> you make up a corp that deals only in orbital transport and makes a
> point of avoiding thorough background checks :) ).
>
Bira, I trimmed the reply remark because Ahrain had inserted "spoiler spaces"
to keep other members of his game group from reading some of the ideas. You
should have kept them as well. We all make mistakes, but we have to know
they're a mistake before we can learn from them. Okay?

-K
[Hoosier Hacker House]
[http://members.aol.com/hhackerh/index.html]
ICQ#-51511837
Message no. 14
From: Bruce iti03678@****.co.za
Subject: Year of the Comet (Poll)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 09:03:59 +0200
-----Original Message-----
From: Bira <ubiratan@**.homeshopping.com.br>
To: shadowrn@*********.org <shadowrn@*********.org>
Date: 17 November 1999 06:44
Subject: Re: Year of the Comet (Poll)


>
>On Wed, 17 Nov 1999 02:22:14 EST
>"Ahrain Drigar" <ahrain_drigar@*******.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> ... part of it is where the runners are becoming more corporate
affiliated
>> over the course of the game (and yes by their choice....mostly),
gaining
>> SIN's and the like. Their employer, an unnamed wannabe mega, will
>> eventually have the runners do 1) a data steal from an orbital
thinktank and
>> 2) do a little plain old sabotage on another station. Right now
the only
>> magical character is a physad "gunman". No spells, no astral
perception,
>> etc. I had planned on working a little on the fact that even
though he
>> isn't a mage he will still be able to "sense", to some small
degree, the
>> ...unnaturalness, for lack of a better word, of outer space. Will
do a
>> little to heighten the mood.
>> So IMHO space does not turn SR into RRUUUUNNNEERRRSSS IINNN
>> SSPPPAAAACCEEE!!!! And there is deffinately NOT a Captain Link
Heartthrob
>> in my game (that they know of.....) :)
>>
>> Ahrain
>>
>
> As for getting to space, no sweat... Borrow more from William
>Gibson and say you just have to take a JAL taxi and switch to a
shuttle
>once you get to their orbital hub :) . You can also replace JAL by
your
>corporate airline of choice, but they tend to ask more questions
(unless
>you make up a corp that deals only in orbital transport and makes a
>point of avoiding thorough background checks :) ).
>
>
>Bira - SysOp da Shadowland.BR

The problem with this is the lack of destinations in SR space. We dont
have a Freeside, that ultimate holiday destination in the stars.:) All
the habitats in SR space are super strictly controlled by their owners
and do not like visitors.

- -
Bruce <phantasm@****.co.za>

Give me reasons why the sun has to shine
why they murdered the noisy mime
tell me the answers to the puzzles of Poe
and sing me to sleep on the rivers of woe
Message no. 15
From: Brent Smith Lucius@****.com
Subject: Year of the Comet (Poll)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 14:44:38 -0600
>I think there are plenty of gaming opportunities for space in Shadowrun.
>It's going to be a very hard sell, but it can be done. Not just merely the
>impact things out there have on the shadows down here, but also reasons for
>groundside shadowrunners to go "up the well," as well as a shadow scene
>thriving in high orbit itself. It's going to require some innovation and
>thinking outside of the box (if you'll pardon the cliche), but it's doable.
>(More on ideas on shadowrunning in space at another time.)
>
>I do agree that Trinity has a point, though, any treatment of "shadowspace"
>is going to have to get the setting "just right." There should be methods
>to allow characters to get away with using magic in space that does NOT
>make them uber-magicians. And the science fiction involved should probably
>be "harder" (more realistic) than what's commonly found in today's fare:
>Most development takes place in orbit around earth. Deeper-space colonies
>on the moon and at the LaGrange points exist, but they are few and far-
>between. And travel to Mars and beyond takes months, maybe even years,
>going one-way alone.
>
There are open areas in MITS. I won't elaborate right now on specifics I
don't have the info in front of me, but I know there are. That would allow
magic in space.
As for runs, There will always be the corp that would rather "risk" a
runner than a highly trained asset. Even if this means payments higher than
usual, and a little training for the runners. Its still cheaper to splorch
an unsuccessfull runner group than a 3 year trained group. Corps are always
wanting spying done, codes stolen, and other companys assets, personell, and
research stollen, retrieved or removed. Even more so in space where IMHO a
war of attrition would be the most effective. Assets are hard to replace in
space.
Thats even before the group that gets inventive, and does enough work to
go into pirating. Plus you have the Ares moonbase, and who knows what other
bases are there. You have Heilos...somewhere (talk about a really rough
job). You have all of Mars, and if you look into the right boks you may get
some idea
as to what may or may not be there. Space is a creative GM's foil and a
great tool. It offers a lot of promise for a future look at SR. It just
takes a GM and a party willing to lay it on the line in a real hard way, to
make a great story.
Message no. 16
From: Bira ubiratan@**.homeshopping.com.br
Subject: Year of the Comet (Poll)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 17:45:26 -0200
On Thu, 18 Nov 1999 09:03:59 +0200
"Bruce" <iti03678@****.co.za> wrote:

> > As for getting to space, no sweat... Borrow more from William
> >Gibson and say you just have to take a JAL taxi and switch to a
> shuttle
> >once you get to their orbital hub :) . You can also replace JAL by
> your
> >corporate airline of choice, but they tend to ask more questions
> (unless
> >you make up a corp that deals only in orbital transport and makes a
> >point of avoiding thorough background checks :) ).
> >
> >
> >Bira - SysOp da Shadowland.BR
>
> The problem with this is the lack of destinations in SR space. We dont
> have a Freeside, that ultimate holiday destination in the stars.:) All
> the habitats in SR space are super strictly controlled by their owners
> and do not like visitors.
>

Again, that can be changed :) . I've already ran an adventure
where the players had to take a trip to Amazonia to rescue a container
filled with hydroponic farming gear (including frozen seeds and DNA)
that had been dropped there and make sure that it got to the Zion
Cluster (they never really got to know that, tough, since they didn't go
into space). They did, however, have to maintain a very cautious talk
with a Boitatá that literraly got hold of their employer (which was a
shaman version of Maelcum :) ).
Another interesting option can be to throw the runners in the
historical process that eventually leads to habitats similar to Zion or
Freeside. Who knows, maybe they end up doing runs for Tessier-Ashpool in
their struggle towards the stars :) .


Bira - SysOp da Shadowland.BR
http://members.xoom.com/slbr
http://www.terravista.pt/Nazare/2729
ICQ# 4055455

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