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Message no. 1
From: Michael Orion Jackson <moj0001@****.ACS.UNT.EDU>
Subject: Yet another go-around w/chargen
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 1995 10:10:20 -0500
Sorry to drag this up again, but I've been trying to hash out a new
character gen table/system for SRII. I am disssatified with the present
one in that it: a) assumes that noone would want to different areas at
the same level, b)theoretically allows everyone to have anything from any
sourcebook. I got some of my ideas on how to fix these irritations while
looking at Mechwarrior 2ed, and some I borrowed/synthesized from earlier
posts on this subject.

1. The letter priorities become number priorities.
a -->4
b -->3
c -->2
d -->1
e -->0

2. All beggining characters get 10 points to distribute among the
various areas as they see fit.

3. Metahumanity is available at priority 3 (GM's choice as to
what you end up as (Muhahahaha)), and at priority 4 (You pick).

4. Magical status:
4:full magician
3:human adept/metahuman magician
2:metahuman adept
1:mundane
0:mundane

5. Resources and Magicians: You can trade off one level of
monetary resources to get an additional level of magical resources (i.e.
force points), or vice versa. For example, if you were a mage w/
resources of 1 you could go to resources of 0 for a raise to resources 2
for force point purposes.

6. Techlevel Priority: A new column is added to the table, that
of "techlevel." Techlevel measures the technological sophistication of
that character's starting gear(i.e. what sourcebooks they have access to).

Techlevel Sourcebooks/equipment allowed
~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
4 Alpha-grade cyberware (SSC)
3 Fields of Fire (Available at lvl.2 for mercs)
2 Shadowtech
1 StreetSammurai Catalog
0 Basic rulebook, not inc. appendicies

Note:For the purposes of FoF, a "merc" is a character with a
Military Theory skill or concentration greater than or equal to three.
If all else fails, use discretion. A streetsam and a merc are similar,
it's roleplaying that sets them appart (and the fact that not many street
sams would ever be in a position to learn Military Theory).

Note2:Beggining characters recieve a number of free levels in
Techlevel equal to one-half of their Resource Priority, rounded down.

Note3:As commonsense would dictate, a character gains access to
all books/equiment at and below his techlevel priority.

Note4:When buying equipment within your techlevel range, no
availability checks or surgery costs are neccessary. Cost=listed price
w/out street index mods. The only exceptions to this rule are items with
availibity TNs >8, which the character must roll for and pay street index
for. Surgery costs are still waived, however.

Note5:Beggining characters may try to get equipment one bracket
higher than their techlevel. They must roll availability checks for all
attempted items, all TNs for availability are at +4, and street index is
doubled.

Note6:The second half of the weapon section in SSC (the one with
weapons like the Colt M22a2 and the Vindicator Minigun) is considered to
be on par with FoF for purposes of priority level and availability.
Otherwise, a Colt M22a2 would be easier for players to get than a Colt
M23(FoF assault rifle, basically a stripped down M22a2), which makes
absolutely no sense.


Feel free to critique this, because continued feedback will help refine it.

Peace.
__________________________________________________________________________
|Michael Orion Jackson |"A college student is a mechanism for |
|moj0001@****.acs.unt.edu |converting caffeine into finished |
|>Flaming is immature.< |homework" -unknown, but perceptive author.|
__________________________________________________________________________
Message no. 2
From: Richard Sidwell <sidwell@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Yet another go-around w/chargen
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 1995 12:08:21 -0600
> 3. Metahumanity is available at priority 3 (GM's choice as to
> what you end up as (Muhahahaha)), and at priority 4 (You pick).
>
> 4. Magical status:
> 4:full magician
> 3:human adept/metahuman magician
> 2:metahuman adept

shouldn't the cost for metahuman magicians and adepts be
the same as humans if useing the more metahumans option.
,
Richard Sidwell oxxxx|===============================-
`
Message no. 3
From: The Digital Mage <mn3rge@****.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Yet another go-around w/chargen
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 1995 18:51:16 +0100
On Thu, 15 Jun 1995, Michael Orion Jackson wrote:

> character gen table/system for SRII. I am disssatified with the present
> one in that it: a) assumes that noone would want to different areas at
> the same level,
I'm not quite sure what your gripe is here, if you're saying you don't
like the current system because you can't have two different areas at the
same high level (ie you want both Attributes and Skills at Priority 1 or
A whatever its called) then the whole point is to limit you!!!!

If on the other hand you're saying you'd like to have an effectively
weaker charcter with two different areas at teh same low levels, then hey
you don't have to spend all those points, they've even shown that if you
don't want to spend all your Resources they effectively vanish (well get
divided by 10). I really don't see your problem, perhaps an example would
be helpful.

>b)theoretically allows everyone to have anything from any sourcebook.
I get your gripe here, but then the GM can say what players cana and
can't have and ask for in-game reasons why he should have that item (ie
I'd maybe let a Bodyguard character start with Orthoskin so they can take
a bullet easier, but I wouldn't allow it for a Decker!). Other people
have said that they use availibility codes to limit things. Other people
use the street prices so that real hard to get stuff cost a bundle.
Shadowtech itself states that none of teh stuff should be bought at
Charac Gen. I think even Alphs and Beta ware is restricted at Generation.

Mind you having said that, from the quick glance I gave your system I
think your's is probably a good solution too.


The Digital Mage : mn3rge@****.ac.uk
Shadowrun Web Site under construction at
http://www.bath.ac.uk/~mn3rge/Shadowrun.html
Message no. 4
From: Michael Orion Jackson <moj0001@****.ACS.UNT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Yet another go-around w/chargen
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 1995 13:27:32 -0500
On Thu, 15 Jun 1995, The Digital Mage wrote:

> On Thu, 15 Jun 1995, Michael Orion Jackson wrote:
>
> > character gen table/system for SRII. I am disssatified with the present
> > one in that it: a) assumes that noone would want to different areas at
> > the same level,
> I'm not quite sure what your gripe is here, if you're saying you don't
> like the current system because you can't have two different areas at the
> same high level (ie you want both Attributes and Skills at Priority 1 or
> A whatever its called) then the whole point is to limit you!!!!
The system is self-limiting. If you take skills and attributes at level
4 (max), yuo've got 40 skill points and 30 attrib. points, but you've
only got 2 left over for Resources (What, 90kY or something like that).
In other words, you're good, but you're poor. This asssumes 10 points
and that you don't plug any of the remaining two into something stupid
like magic (I'm a SuperMundane!).
> If on the other hand you're saying you'd like to have an effectively
> weaker charcter with two different areas at teh same low levels, then hey
> you don't have to spend all those points, they've even shown that if you
> don't want to spend all your Resources they effectively vanish (well get
> divided by 10). I really don't see your problem, perhaps an example would
> be helpful.
>
What I'm getting at is: players frequently value two or three different
areas equally. The current system forces them to prefer one area over
another that otherwise they find equal. That kinda sucked in my opinion,
so I started thinking up the new system.
> >b)theoretically allows everyone to have anything from any sourcebook.
> I get your gripe here, but then the GM can say what players cana and
> can't have and ask for in-game reasons why he should have that item (ie
> I'd maybe let a Bodyguard character start with Orthoskin so they can take
> a bullet easier, but I wouldn't allow it for a Decker!). Other people
> have said that they use availibility codes to limit things. Other people
> use the street prices so that real hard to get stuff cost a bundle.
> Shadowtech itself states that none of teh stuff should be bought at
> Charac Gen. I think even Alphs and Beta ware is restricted at Generation.
>
I added a new priority area to handle technological sopistication of
starting equipment. This is probably the most original part of my
system, and is also the most ambiguious. For ease of use, I based it on
what sourcebooks you had access to. The problem comes in that the
equipment in some sourcebooks varies widely in its nature. For
example SSC contains both inoffensive survival knives you could
probably score in a flea market to the Colt M22a2 ,arguably the best assault
rifle in the game. The M22a2 is obviously a military weapon. Hell, it falls
under four separate areas of legislation: Rifle, Automatic Weapon, Military
Weapon, and Explosives (grenade launcher). A player of mine tried to convince
me once that if you got caught with it, you'd only be charged with one of the
above.

Yeah, right.

I've got an intimate aquantance with the American legal
system and the Shadowrun legal system. You'd get popped with all three
and probably at max sentence. Judges don't like military weapons.

So on further thought I slotted the entire second part of SSC (not the
cyberware, just the M22a2, Vindicator, SAM section) up to the same
priority level as Fields of Fire.

I admit that there are a lot of gray areas here. Use your GMly
discretion to decide how sophisticated/hard to get a piece of equipment
is and put it in the appropriate place.
(disgusting and improbable anatomical suggestions ignored)
> Mind you having said that, from the quick glance I gave your system I
> think your's is probably a good solution too.
Thanks.
>
>
> The Digital Mage : mn3rge@****.ac.uk
> Shadowrun Web Site under construction at
> http://www.bath.ac.uk/~mn3rge/Shadowrun.html
>

Peace or Pieces.
__________________________________________________________________________
|Michael Orion Jackson |"A college student is a mechanism for |
|moj0001@****.acs.unt.edu |converting caffeine into finished |
|>Flaming is immature.< |homework" -unknown, but perceptive author |
__________________________________________________________________________
Message no. 5
From: cocheese <ZKLJ1@****.EAST-TENN-ST.EDU>
Subject: Re: Yet another go-around w/chargen
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 1995 15:38:58 EDT
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> 3. Metahumanity is available at priority 3 (GM's choice as to
> what you end up as (Muhahahaha)), and at priority 4 (You pick).
> 4. Magical status:
> 4:full magician
> 3:human adept/metahuman magician
> 2:metahuman adept
> shouldn't the cost for metahuman magicians and adepts be
> the same as humans if useing the more metahumans option.
I agree, the metahuman cost is TOO MUCH if you're going to be a mundane meta-h.
For magicians, no problem but the benefits of being a mundane metahuman are in
no comparable way justifiable to the costs of becoming a metahuman.

CoCheese
Message no. 6
From: Michael Orion Jackson <moj0001@****.ACS.UNT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Yet another go-around w/chargen
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 1995 07:49:24 -0500
On Thu, 15 Jun 1995, cocheese wrote:

> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> > > 3. Metahumanity is available at priority 3 (GM's choice as to
> > > what you end up as (Muhahahaha)), and at priority 4 (You pick).
> > > 4. Magical status:
> > > 4:full magician
> > > 3:human adept/metahuman magician
> > > 2:metahuman adept
> > shouldn't the cost for metahuman magicians and adepts be
> > the same as humans if useing the more metahumans option.
> I agree, the metahuman cost is TOO MUCH if you're going to be a mundane meta-h.
> For magicians, no problem but the benefits of being a mundane metahuman are in
> no comparable way justifiable to the costs of becoming a metahuman.
>
> CoCheese
>
Hmm. I'm not completely clear on what you two are saying. Well, at
least one of you pointed out that w/ the MoreMetas option, magical costs
for metas go up.. That is valid, and in the rulebook, but I like lots of
metas and magic in my games, so as a GM, I invoked that most almighty
curse of:"Fuck Fasa, I'm going with what I goddamn fucking well like.
Fasa can go screw themselves blue." In other words, I like my version
better than Fasa's, so that's what I run my games under. For other
people, pick whichever system you prefer. It depends on how much
magic/metahumanity you want in the party.


Gremlins II quote: "Some use a little... I use a LOT! *glug, glug, glug*"
__________________________________________________________________________
|Michael Orion Jackson |"A college student is a mechanism for |
|moj0001@****.acs.unt.edu |converting caffeine into finished |
|>Flaming is immature.< |homework" -unknown, but perceptive author |
__________________________________________________________________________
Message no. 7
From: The Digital Mage <mn3rge@****.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Yet another go-around w/chargen
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 1995 13:55:09 +0100
On Thu, 15 Jun 1995, Michael Orion Jackson wrote:

> The system is self-limiting. If you take skills and attributes at level
> 4 (max), yuo've got 40 skill points and 30 attrib. points, but you've
> only got 2 left over for Resources (What, 90kY or something like that).
> In other words, you're good, but you're poor. This asssumes 10 points
> and that you don't plug any of the remaining two into something stupid
> like magic (I'm a SuperMundane!).
Eh? I was referring to what your gripe with the *existing* system is, in
which you rank the areas by priority. Therefore a character couldn't have
40 Skill points and 30 Attributes points. The whole point of the current
generation system is so that starting character all start off equal and
balanced. Ie you could have really good skills, pretty good attributes,
average money, but be human with no magic. Or you could be a full blown
mage, have pretty good skills, be a metahuman (using More Metas rule),
but have below average attributes and practically no nuyen.

If your characters are wanting everything then theres no point sticking
with a character gen system just use GM discretion.

The Digital Mage : mn3rge@****.ac.uk
Shadowrun Web Site under construction at
http://www.bath.ac.uk/~mn3rge/Shadowrun.html
Message no. 8
From: Michael Orion Jackson <moj0001@****.ACS.UNT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Yet another go-around w/chargen
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 1995 08:53:56 -0500
On Fri, 16 Jun 1995, The Digital Mage wrote:

> On Thu, 15 Jun 1995, Michael Orion Jackson wrote:
>
> > The system is self-limiting. If you take skills and attributes at level
> > 4 (max), yuo've got 40 skill points and 30 attrib. points, but you've
> > only got 2 left over for Resources (What, 90kY or something like that).
> > In other words, you're good, but you're poor. This asssumes 10 points
> > and that you don't plug any of the remaining two into something stupid
> > like magic (I'm a SuperMundane!).
> Eh? I was referring to what your gripe with the *existing* system is, in
> which you rank the areas by priority. Therefore a character couldn't have
> 40 Skill points and 30 Attributes points. The whole point of the current
> generation system is so that starting character all start off equal and
> balanced. Ie you could have really good skills, pretty good attributes,
> average money, but be human with no magic. Or you could be a full blown
> mage, have pretty good skills, be a metahuman (using More Metas rule),
> but have below average attributes and practically no nuyen.
>
> If your characters are wanting everything then theres no point sticking
> with a character gen system just use GM discretion.
>
> The Digital Mage : mn3rge@****.ac.uk
> Shadowrun Web Site under construction at
> http://www.bath.ac.uk/~mn3rge/Shadowrun.html
>
Again, the system I cooked up would create characters that are balanced.
10 points is 10 points, no matter how you spend it. You could max out
skills and attributes, but you resources wouldn't be too hot. If I
remember correctly, res2kY. So, you'd have light or no cyberware,
probably no vehicle, and fairly standard weaponry. In other words, you'd
be an awful lot like the Merc archetype in SR Basic. ON the other hand,
lets say you plug 4 into Magic, 0 into race, 3 into skills, 2 into
attributes, and 1 into resources. You then shift your money down to res0
for magic equal t res2. Basically, you have a human street
mage/shaman:magically-endowed, not too experienced or strong, and poor.
It is up to you to decide wheter or not the above two examples are equal.
I tend to think so, because magic is a powerful advantage.

My basic gripe is that with the basic table, you end up wasting priority
levels on useless crap like race or magic (assuming you make a human,
fighter-type character (by far the most common character in my experience)).
By that I mean that you put you A, B, and C priorities into resources,
skills and attributes in some order. C ends up stuck into race or magic.
As C priority gets you zilch in these areas, I say why force players to
devote part of that "creational energy" to some completely useless area.
And, because the system forces you into descending order, it ignores the
fact that, frequently, players value two areas equally. I personally
like res4, skills3, attrib3 when I play a merc (my favorite archetype).

I hope this clears up any confusion. Especially on whether or not this
system creates balanced characters, which I think it does.

__________________________________________________________________________
|Michael Orion Jackson |"A college student is a mechanism for |
|moj0001@****.acs.unt.edu |converting caffeine into finished |
|>Flaming is immature.< |homework" -unknown, but perceptive author |
__________________________________________________________________________

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