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Message no. 1
From: NightRain <nightrain@***.BRISNET.ORG.AU>
Subject: Yet More Rigger 2 Questions
Date: Sat, 8 Nov 1997 16:28:00 +1000
Here are some more questions. Hope your reading Jon.

1) What's the story with Rigger's and motor bikes? It says that bikes
can't have Rigger adaptation, but they can have remote control. Why is
this? It seems to be a change of direction, and makes things a bit hard
for riggers.

2) Can normal turrets be rigger controlled, or only remote turrets? Normal
turrets are motorised, but does the rigger have control over the weapon?

Thanks,

NightRain.

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: macey@***.brisnet.org.au
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Message no. 2
From: Jon Szeto <JonSzeto@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Yet More Rigger 2 Questions
Date: Sun, 9 Nov 1997 10:06:20 -0500
In a message dated 97-11-08 04:55:04 EST, NightRain writes:

> 1) What's the story with Rigger's and motor bikes? It says that bikes
> can't have Rigger adaptation, but they can have remote control. Why is
> this? It seems to be a change of direction, and makes things a bit hard
> for riggers.

Uh? Can you point out the specific reference? I looked through the book and
can't find anything that says this.

-- Jon
Message no. 3
From: James Lindsay <jlindsay@******.CA>
Subject: Re: Yet More Rigger 2 Questions
Date: Sun, 9 Nov 1997 17:52:41 GMT
On Sat, 8 Nov 1997 16:28:00 +1000, NightRain wrote:

> Here are some more questions. Hope your reading Jon.
>
> 1) What's the story with Rigger's and motor bikes? It says that bikes
> can't have Rigger adaptation, but they can have remote control. Why is
> this? It seems to be a change of direction, and makes things a bit hard
> for riggers.

And how can a riderless motorcycle maintain its balance, anyways? Are
strong gyroscopes and sophisticated actuators used to balance the bike
when it is standing still or moving v-e-r-y slowly, or does it have
wussy training wheels that pop out (and if it does, where are the
plastic handlebar streamers)?



James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia
"http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero";

Money talks... it usually says "bend over"...
Message no. 4
From: "Logan Graves <Fenris>" <logan1@*****.INTERCOM.NET>
Subject: Re: Yet More Rigger 2 Questions
Date: Sun, 9 Nov 1997 13:35:34 -0500
In our last episode, James Lindsay wrote in responce to:
>
> NightRain's earlier post:
>
>N> Here are some more questions. Hope your reading Jon.
>N>
>N> 1) What's the story with Rigger's and motor bikes? It says that
>N> bikes can't have Rigger adaptation, but they can have remote
>N> control. Why is this? It seems to be a change of direction, and
>N> makes things a bit hard for riggers.

WHERE does it say this? Urban brawl leagues have been using rigged
outriders' harnesses for years. IIRC, there are several (non-BKK)
references to this in "Shadowbeat" & "A Killing Glare." Is this
some
new R2 ruling? 'Cause it's a first if it is.

>
> And how can a riderless motorcycle maintain its balance, anyways? Are
> strong gyroscopes and sophisticated actuators used to balance the bike
> when it is standing still or moving v-e-r-y slowly, or does it have
> wussy training wheels that pop out (and if it does, where are the
> plastic handlebar streamers)?

Not too sure about the riderless case (See "Old Friends" for an example
of what happens when the rider gets torn off a bike, with an AP.)

BUT:
If your bike has an intelligence rating (ie. an autopilot) it can. But
yes, the bike must maintain its cruise (anti-tip-over) speed. Depending
upon its sophistication/rating, the 'dogbrain' can range from make
coures corrections to driving you from point A to B, using GridGuide.
The control battle (your reflexes vs. the bike's autopilot) would
undoubtedly be more severe than when one auto-drives a car.

AND:
I see nothing wrong with a "SpeedRacer-type hydraulic stand" dropping
automatically at stoplights to keep the bike from tipping over.

Let the technology work *for* you, not agin' ya.

--Fenris
_______________________________________________logan1@*****.intercom.net
(>) Sure, it will probably explode. But at least
I won't be *in* it, *on* it, or *near* it.
(>) --Beachcraft Technician relieved to be reassigned to Atlanta
Message no. 5
From: John Penta <johndevil@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Yet More Rigger 2 Questions
Date: Sun, 9 Nov 1997 13:33:16 -0500
On Sun, 9 Nov 1997 17:52:41 GMT James Lindsay <jlindsay@******.CA>
writes:
>On Sat, 8 Nov 1997 16:28:00 +1000, NightRain wrote:
>
>> Here are some more questions. Hope your reading Jon.
>>
>> 1) What's the story with Rigger's and motor bikes? It says that
>bikes
>> can't have Rigger adaptation, but they can have remote control. Why
>is
>> this? It seems to be a change of direction, and makes things a bit
>hard
>> for riggers.
>
>And how can a riderless motorcycle maintain its balance, anyways? Are
>strong gyroscopes and sophisticated actuators used to balance the bike
>when it is standing still or moving v-e-r-y slowly, or does it have
>wussy training wheels that pop out (and if it does, where are the
>plastic handlebar streamers)?
ROFL! seriously....most bikes probably use some sort of gyroscope system.
Message no. 6
From: Knight Rook Shadow Dancer <shadowd@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Yet More Rigger 2 Questions
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 1997 15:25:22 -0700
Logan Graves wrote:
>
> If your bike has an intelligence rating (ie. an autopilot) it can.
[snip]
> The control battle (your reflexes vs. the bike's autopilot) would
> undoubtedly be more severe than when one auto-drives a car.

What about the idea of having some sort of switch to deactivate the
dog-brain when you get into combat? R2 (p.23) states "A vehicle's autonav
system actually impedes the controlling character's ability to perform
combat manueuvers." It seems to me that this is one of the first things
that a rigger would want to be able to get rid of. However it is still nice
to have it there for more leisurly situations.
--
Knight Rook Shadow Dancer *** shadowd@********.com
\______________)======================================================
WITH ORION'S SWORD THE HUNTER AROSE AND CONQUERED THE WORLD WITH FURY AND
GRACE
Message no. 7
From: NightRain <nightrain@***.BRISNET.ORG.AU>
Subject: Re: Yet More Rigger 2 Questions
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 1997 09:11:17 +1000
Fenris wrote:
>WHERE does it say this? Urban brawl leagues have been using rigged
>outriders' harnesses for years. IIRC, there are several (non-BKK)
>references to this in "Shadowbeat" & "A Killing Glare." Is
this some
>new R2 ruling? 'Cause it's a first if it is.

That's why I thought it was weird. I was remembering the stunts that the
riders got away with in Jak Koke's book. But anyway, I just made a mistake
and read the wrong description.NightRain.

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http://elf.brisnet.org.au/~macey/index.html

EMAIL : nightrain@***.brisnet.org.au
: macey@***.brisnet.org.au
ICQ : 2587947
Message no. 8
From: NightRain <nightrain@***.BRISNET.ORG.AU>
Subject: Re: Yet More Rigger 2 Questions
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 1997 09:09:40 +1000
Jon Szeto wrote:
>> 1) What's the story with Rigger's and motor bikes? It says that bikes
>> can't have Rigger adaptation, but they can have remote control. Why is
>> this? It seems to be a change of direction, and makes things a bit
hard
>> for riggers.
>
>Uh? Can you point out the specific reference? I looked through the book
and
>can't find anything that says this.

It's just me being a bone head. There was no space between the rigger
adaptation and the next item 'Dual controls' (or something like that).
Dual controls can't be fitted on a motorbike, and when I glanced at the
page I noticed the sentence and thought it was part of the rigger
adaptation description.

NightRain.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
|The universe is a big place, and whatever happens, you will not be missed|
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://elf.brisnet.org.au/~macey/index.html

EMAIL : nightrain@***.brisnet.org.au
: macey@***.brisnet.org.au
ICQ : 2587947
Message no. 9
From: Mon goose <landsquid@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Yet More Rigger 2 Questions
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 1997 11:14:45 PST
>> Here are some more questions. Hope your reading Jon.
>>
>> 1) What's the story with Rigger's and motor bikes? It says that
bikes
>> can't have Rigger adaptation, but they can have remote control. Why
is
>> this? It seems to be a change of direction, and makes things a bit
hard
>> for riggers.
>

Ok, Jon, and all you rest, because you asked, the confusion is that
Immeditely after "rigger adaptation" comes "secondary controls", with
the last sentance on P.126 being "this modification is not available for
motorcycles".
Due to a formating (not writing) error, "secondary controls" are
not given thier own header, and kinda smear into the rigger adaptation
section. In fact, a motorcyle sensably can't have secondary controls,
but that is a whole other modification from rigger adptation.

BTW, a drone *could* have secondary controls? Hows that?

>And how can a riderless motorcycle maintain its balance, anyways? Are
strong gyroscopes and sophisticated actuators used to balance the bike
when it is standing still or moving v-e-r-y slowly, or does it have
wussy training wheels that pop out (and if it does, where are the
>plastic handlebar streamers)?

I'm a bit confused as to how to modify any vehicle for remote contol-
do I need to buy "remote pilot advanced programing"- the index says
"remote control interface" should be on p 126, and thats theonly
"remote" I see. Do all remote vehicles require some level of autonomous
control? What if you ONLY want to be "in" the drone?

re- the above comment, I assume you mean remote controlled (or rigged
and auto-piloted) bikes? The reason I checked is that only the
"datajack port" requires any mass, so a concievable remote bike drone
would have no extra mass dedicated to balance.

How about mounting the engine longitudinally, having a counterspun
driveshaft (a common arangement), and using a slip-clutch to control
thier gyroscopic effect- it something todays riders have to take into
acount when changing gears and RPM on such bikes, and it could sound way
cool to have the bike rev and brake its engine at a stoplight to keep
its balance! For parking, a selenoid actuated center stand would be
used.

I fail to see why remote gear requires no mass for adding to a vehicle
not designed for it- I'd think, unless the vehicle was "drive by wire"
already, at least some muscle input from the driver would be important.
Or do all 2057 cars have ABS, power everything, fuel injection, and a
bag of chips? Not unlikey....

Mongoose / Technological progress is like an ax in the hands
of a psychotic - Einstein

get sucked into -The Vortex- Chicago's shadowland BBS
http://www.concentric.net/~evamarie/srmain.htm


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Message no. 10
From: Mon goose <landsquid@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Yet More Rigger 2 Questions
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 1997 11:22:27 PST
>What about the idea of having some sort of switch to deactivate the
>dog-brain when you get into combat? R2 (p.23) states "A vehicle's
autonav
>system actually impedes the controlling character's ability to perform
>combat manueuvers."

All the combat Vehicle Action tables have a modifier for "vehicle
autonav active" , and it notes on p 45 that turning autonav off or on is
a simple action.

Mongoose / Technological progress is like an ax in the hands
of a psychotic - Einstein

get sucked into -The Vortex- Chicago's shadowland BBS
http://www.concentric.net/~evamarie/srmain.htm


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Message no. 11
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Yet More Rigger 2 Questions
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 1997 22:25:08 +0100
Mon goose said on 11:14/10 Nov 97...

> I'm a bit confused as to how to modify any vehicle for remote contol-
> do I need to buy "remote pilot advanced programing"- the index says
> "remote control interface" should be on p 126, and thats theonly
> "remote" I see. Do all remote vehicles require some level of autonomous
> control? What if you ONLY want to be "in" the drone?

The heading "Remote Control Interface is on page 125, with two lines of
text under it; the remainder of it is on page 126, _above_ "Remote Pilot
Advanced Programming". This is another one of the small but irritating
editing errors, like the headers that seem to be part of the previous
paragraph.

However, the prize must go to the seating modifications on pages 142 and
143 -- this is extremely unclear, until you suddenly realize that the
stats under ejection seat actually apply only to ejection seats, and the
stats for all other seats follow a few paragraphs down, on the next
page... Why aren't the ejection seat stats in the block with the other
bucket and bench seats?

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
So what if we're making a scene now?
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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