Logs for ShadowRN and Associated Mailing Lists

From:	shadowrn@*********.com (Achille Autran)
Subject:	Yourself as a contact
Date:	Wed Mar 6 13:35:01 2002

Message no. 1 <cheesy tongue-in-cheek mode on>

>Name: Geoff Brown
>I = 4
>Name: Andrew Norman
>I 5
>Name: Sebastian Wiers
>I = 5
>Name: Achille Autran
>I: 5
>Name: Andy D. Pfister
>I:4
>Name: Jonathan
>I: 4
>Name: Max Noel
>I 5
>Name: Mark Smith
>I:5
>Name: Sam Hussung
>I:6
>Name: Sam S.
>I 5
>Name: Derek
>I 5

Average intelligence: 4.909!!!! Awesome! Here is experimental proof that
roleplayers are /indeed/ way above common folks!! w00t!! w00t w00t w00t!!!
I'm so glad I belong to the ELITE of mankind!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Molloy

From:	shadowrn@*********.com (Meph)
Subject:	Yourself as a contact
Date:	Wed Mar 6 19:10:01 2002

Message no. 2 > Average intelligence: 4.909!!!! Awesome! Here is experimental proof that
> roleplayers are /indeed/ way above common folks!! w00t!! w00t w00t w00t!!!
> I'm so glad I belong to the ELITE of mankind!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well whaddya expect...I mean someone has to decipher these
rules...and the morons can't do it! :)

Meph

From:	shadowrn@*******.com (shadowrn@*******.com)
Subject:	Yourself as a contact
Date:	Wed Mar 6 19:35:01 2002

Message no. 3 > Average intelligence: 4.909!!!! Awesome! Here is experimental proof that
> roleplayers are /indeed/ way above common folks!! w00t!! w00t w00t w00t!!!
> I'm so glad I belong to the ELITE of mankind!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Either that or roleplayers have /ego's/ way above common peoples. ;p

From:	shadowrn@*********.com (Jonathan)
Subject:	Yourself as a contact
Date:	Wed Mar 6 19:40:01 2002

Message no. 4 > Either that or roleplayers have /ego's/ way above common peoples. ;p
>

I'd vote for this theory ;)

From:	shadowrn@*********.com (Justin Bell)
Subject:	Yourself as a contact
Date:	Wed Mar 6 19:45:01 2002

Message no. 5 At 12:33 AM 3/7/2002 +0000, flakjacket@***********.com wrote:
> > Average intelligence: 4.909!!!! Awesome! Here is experimental proof that
> > roleplayers are /indeed/ way above common folks!! w00t!! w00t w00t w00t!!!
> > I'm so glad I belong to the ELITE of mankind!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>Either that or roleplayers have /ego's/ way above common peoples. ;p

uh.... duh
--
Justin Bell
justin@******.net

From:	shadowrn@*********.com (Iridios)
Subject:	Yourself as a contact
Date:	Wed Mar 6 20:40:01 2002

Message no. 6 Jonathan wrote:
>
> > Either that or roleplayers have /ego's/ way above common peoples. ;p
> >
>
> I'd vote for this theory ;)

My intelligence is way too high for me to have an ego. :P

--
Iridios
--
From:The Top 100 Things I'd Do
If I Ever Became An Evil Overlord
(http://www.eviloverlord.com/lists/overlord.html)

I will dress in bright and cheery colors, and so throw my
enemies into confusion.

Used Without Permission

From:	shadowrn@*********.com (Eleanor Holmes)
Subject:	Yourself as a contact
Date:	Thu Mar 7 06:50:00 2002

Message no. 7 >Average intelligence: 4.909!!!! Awesome! Here is experimental proof that
>roleplayers are /indeed/ way above common folks!! w00t!! w00t w00t w00t!!!
>I'm so glad I belong to the ELITE of mankind!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The rule of thumb I use is

Int: IQ is at least:
1 70
2 85
3 100
4 120
5 140
6 160
7 180

I know IQ is not necessarily the best measure of intelligence out there,
but this is at least a decent scale.

Lady Jestyr
"If you can't be a good example, then you'll just
have to be a horrible warning." - Catherine Aird
* jestyr@*****.com | URL: http://www.ladyjestyr.com/ *

From:	shadowrn@*********.com (Eleanor Holmes)
Subject:	Yourself as a contact
Date:	Thu Mar 7 07:00:01 2002

Message no. 8 I once wrote myself up as a character, rather than a contact; here 'tis.

Name: Eleanor Holmes
Streetname: Jestyr

Attributes:
Body 3
Quickness 3
Strength 2
Intelligence 6
Willpower 3
Charisma 4

Active Skills:
Etiquette 3
Matrix 5
Government 4
Proj. Weapons 1
Stealth 2
Car 2
Computer 3
Computer B/R 1
Roleplaying 4
Car B/R 1
Graphic Design 2

Knowledge Skills:
English 6
English R/W 6
Italian 2
Italian R/W 2
French 1
French R/W 1
Chemistry 2
Biology 4
Sign Language 1
Physics 1
Pharmacology 3
Linguistics 2
History 2
Bureacracy 4
RPGs of the Late 20th Century 3
Shadowrun 5
RPG Industry Gossip 3
Security System Design 2
Anime & Manga 2
Music Knowledge 2
Mythology 2
Entertainment Industry Gossip 3
Monosyllabic Multilingualism 2
New Age Babble 2
Armchair Psychology 3
Religion 2

Contacts:
Fixer, Drug Dealer, Decker, Club DJ, University Academic, Bartender, Tax
Officer, Lawyer, Council officer, Pharmacologist, Computer tech, Medical
student

Edges:
Friendly Face
High Pain Tolerance 1
College Education
Friends Abroad
Quick Healer
Head for Numbers

Flaws:
Incompetence: Athletics
Incompetence: Geography
Mild Phobia: Large Dogs
Night Blindness
Day Job (-3)
Infirm
Short-sighted

I'm worth about 60 build points. It's very depressing. :)

Lady Jestyr
"If you can't be a good example, then you'll just
have to be a horrible warning." - Catherine Aird
* jestyr@*****.com | URL: http://www.ladyjestyr.com/ *

From:	shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject:	Yourself as a contact
Date:	Thu Mar 7 13:20:01 2002

Message no. 9 According to Eleanor Holmes, on Thu, 07 Mar 2002 the word on the street was...

> I'm worth about 60 build points. It's very depressing. :)

I think that in some game systems, it's really difficult to write yourself up
as a starting character because you have to spend more points than you're
realistically worth, while in others, starting characters are far too limited
to represent real people. I have a feeling SR falls into the first category,
though I haven't added up all the stats posted recently :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Dat is de kip voor het ei spannen.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++@ UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--) O
V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t@ 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

From:	shadowrn@*********.com (Mark M. Smith)
Subject:	Yourself as a contact
Date:	Thu Mar 7 20:20:01 2002

Message no. 10 At 3/7/02 03:52 PM, you wrote:
>The rule of thumb I use is
>
>Int: IQ is at least:
>1 70
>2 85
>3 100
>4 120
>5 140
>6 160
>7 180
>
>I know IQ is not necessarily the best measure of intelligence out there,
>but this is at least a decent scale.

Sounds good... about what I would have assumed on my own and definately in
accordance with how I set my own stats.

--
Mark M. Smith
belgand@**************.com

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DI++++ D+++ G++ e>++++$ h(!) r++ y+**
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From:	shadowrn@*********.com (Sebastian Wiers)
Subject:	Yourself as a contact
Date:	Thu Mar 7 20:50:01 2002

Message no. 11 >The rule of thumb I use is
>
>Int: IQ is at least:
>1 70
>2 85
>3 100
>4 120
>5 140
>6 160
>7 180

And you gave yourself a 6? Yowza!
I always figured IQ's for even very smart people were lower than that, like
around 140-150, with 160+ being really rare. I dunno, I'm sure somebody can
describe the bell curve deviations in a second. But I'd expect the scale
there to run up to a "10" representing people who are 1-in-a-million
briliant. 10 is actually possible for unmodified humans in SR, its just
gonna be damn rare. I think the whole scale is also maybe 10 points high-
many people with a 90 IQ are what would pass for "average" on the street,
and an attributte score of 4 doesn't really indacate ability that is much
above average.

>I know IQ is not necessarily the best measure of intelligence out there,
>but this is at least a decent scale.

I think IQ is actually a pretty close to what Shadowrun calls Intellegence,
because Willpower and Charisma cover other areas of ability that require
smarts but not raw IQ. I think "oblivious" would be a pretty common flaw,
however.

-Sebastian

From:	shadowrn@*********.com (Sebastian Wiers)
Subject:	Yourself as a contact
Date:	Thu Mar 7 20:50:03 2002

Message no. 12 >> Average intelligence: 4.909!!!! Awesome! Here is experimental proof that
>> roleplayers are /indeed/ way above common folks!! w00t!! w00t w00t
w00t!!!
>> I'm so glad I belong to the ELITE of mankind!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>Either that or roleplayers have /ego's/ way above common peoples. ;p

Nah, I think its a reasonable average fo this group, or at least for folks
who care to post thier personal apraisal of thier intellegence. Your gonna
have good intellegence there, just like you find high strength amoung the
people lifting weights in a gym. Over 5 would be pretty odd, but this is
after all a group of creative thinkers who use computers and regulalry read
(and remember the contents of) thick books- chances are its more than a bit
above average in terms of what Shadowrun describes as intellegence.

Big ego's would be indicated by abnormally high Charisma ratings (accurate
or not).

-Seb

From:	shadowrn@*********.com (Jane VR)
Subject:	Yourself as a contact
Date:	Fri Mar 8 00:50:02 2002

Message no. 13 >>The rule of thumb I use is
>>
>>Int: IQ is at least:
>>1 70
>>2 85
>>3 100
>>4 120
>>5 140
>>6 160
>>7 180
>>

I think this range goes high too quickly. 120 is significantly smart, 140 is
labelled genius.

I'd start at 80 and go up by 10s.

Jane

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From:	shadowrn@*******.com (shadowrn@*******.com)
Subject:	Yourself as a contact
Date:	Fri Mar 8 01:30:01 2002

Message no. 14 On Fri, 08 Mar 2002 05:49:12 +0000 "Jane VR" <kadjari@*******.com>
writes:
> I think this range goes high too quickly. 120 is significantly
> smart, 140 is
> labelled genius.
>
> I'd start at 80 and go up by 10s.
>
> Jane

I disagree. I think it should start lower (maybe 50) progress quickly to
3 = 100 then progress non-linearly to 11 (I think that is the maximum
non-augmented intelligence score) = 250 or about whatever the highest
recored IQ score is/was.

--
D. Ghost
Profanity is the one language all programmers know best
- Troutman's 6th programming postulate.

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From:	shadowrn@*********.com (Stuart M. Willis)
Subject:	Yourself as a contact
Date:	Fri Mar 8 04:15:01 2002

Message no. 15 I can't think of anything more geeky than converting oneself to role
playing stats... other than doing it on a friday night...

Here we go.

Name: Stuart Willis
Street-name: h'biki or Crazy Stu
Archetype: Wannabe media mogul
Race: Human (Dwarf looking)

Attributes

Body: 3
Quickness: 2
Strength: 4
Intelligence: 6
Willpower: 5
Charisma: 5

Active Skills
Etiquette: 4
Computer (Macintosh): 4(6)
Computer B/R: 2
Electronics: 3
Car: 4
Instruction: 4
Leadership: 5
Negotation (Fasttalk): 3(5)
Filmmaking: 4
Music Composition: 5
Writing Composition: 5
Music Performance (Trumpet/Bass): 3

Language Skills:
English: 6
English R/W: 6

Knowledge Skills:
Cynical Witticisms: 4
Sarcasm: 6
Cultural Theory: 4
Film Theory: 5
Film Gossip (think AICN): 4
Music Theory: 5
Music History: 5
Film History: 4
Art: 1
Philosophy: 1
Politics: 2
Law: 4
Legal Theory: 4
Science General Knowledge: 2
Pool: -2
Weird facts about everything/anything: 4
General Problem Solving: 5
Insults: 2

Edges:
Adrenaline Surge
College Education
Good Reputation
Will To Live (2)

Flaws:
Asthma
Short & Long Sighted (one in each eye = bad depth perception... no shit)
Perpetually late
Arrogance (Severe)
Distinctive Style (Dress sense + creative stylee)
Addiction (Caffeine)

Contacts:
2D6 x Contacts :)

--
---
In Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror,
murder, and bloodshed but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da
Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love -
they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce?
The Cuckoo Clock.
-- Harry Lime, the Third Man

dangermedia assassin: http://www.dangermedia.org
associate director, dump huck industries: http://www.dumphuck.com
jinn: http://www.vistacartel.com/jinn/

www.biki.net

ICQ: 4340513
---

From:	shadowrn@*********.com (Eleanor Holmes)
Subject:	Yourself as a contact
Date:	Fri Mar 8 04:55:00 2002

Message no. 16 At 07:43 PM 7/03/2002 -0600, Sebastian Wiers wrote:
>
>And you gave yourself a 6? Yowza!

Well, I've done an IQ test. *shrug* Not that it necessarily means much.

>I always figured IQ's for even very smart people were lower than that, like
>around 140-150, with 160+ being really rare.

Yep. 170 or 180 counts as 'genius'. You've got to have over 140 to be
eligible for MENSA. Etc.

>gonna be damn rare. I think the whole scale is also maybe 10 points high-
>many people with a 90 IQ are what would pass for "average" on the street,

By definition, 100 IQ is set as the global average.

(Incidentally, there are stories that the average IQ in the US is 99, but I
haven't found solid proof of that.)

Lady Jestyr
"If you can't be a good example, then you'll just
have to be a horrible warning." - Catherine Aird
* jestyr@*****.com | URL: http://www.ladyjestyr.com/ *

From:	shadowrn@*********.com (Lone Eagle)
Subject:	Yourself as a contact
Date:	Fri Mar 8 05:25:01 2002

Message no. 17 >From: Eleanor Holmes <jestyr@*********.com>
>The rule of thumb I use is
>
>Int: IQ is at least:
>1 70
>2 85
>3 100
>4 120
>5 140
>6 160
>7 180

I'd step it out a bit, make it more logarithmic.

Int:
1 30
2 75
3 100
4 120
5 150
6 180
7 Unscaled (ie 200+)

And yes there are people out there who are "unscaled" I know one bloke who
(if the scale went high enough) has an IQ of 240 or there abouts.

It isn't a bad way to work it, IQ represents your potential ability to
learn, yes it's abstract but so's a character's int score.

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From:	shadowrn@*******.com (shadowrn@*******.com)
Subject:	Yourself as a contact
Date:	Fri Mar 8 05:25:03 2002

Message no. 18 On Fri, 08 Mar 2002 19:56:42 +0000 Eleanor Holmes <jestyr@*********.com>
writes:
<SNIP>
> Yep. 170 or 180 counts as 'genius'. You've got to have over 140 to
> be
> eligible for MENSA. Etc.

Actually, I believe their website (http://www.mensa.org) states the
requirement as being in the top 2%.

--
D. Ghost
Profanity is the one language all programmers know best
- Troutman's 6th programming postulate.

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From:	shadowrn@*********.com (Eleanor Holmes)
Subject:	Yourself as a contact
Date:	Fri Mar 8 05:40:01 2002

Message no. 19 >I'd step it out a bit, make it more logarithmic.
>
>Int:
>1 30

Do you realise just /how/ incapable that is? Most trolls would require
full-time carers.

Lady Jestyr
"If you can't be a good example, then you'll just
have to be a horrible warning." - Catherine Aird
* jestyr@*****.com | URL: http://www.ladyjestyr.com/ *

From:	shadowrn@*********.com (Lone Eagle)
Subject:	Yourself as a contact
Date:	Fri Mar 8 05:40:04 2002

Message no. 20 >From: Gurth <Gurth@******.nl>
>I think that in some game systems, it's really difficult to write >yourself
>up
>as a starting character because you have to spend more points than >you're
>realistically worth, while in others, starting characters are far too
> >limited
>to represent real people. I have a feeling SR falls into the first
> >category,
>though I haven't added up all the stats posted recently :)

I'd put it in the second, I come out way over standard build points which
admittedly includes all of those little things that you never think about,
for example I have a fishing skill of 3, I haven't fished for a long while
but I know how, and I'm better than, "Grip line with forefinger, push over
bail arm, draw arm back, cast... wait a little...etc." You may say that
stuff like that doesn't count but why not? its all stuff that makes up who I
am.

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From:	shadowrn@*********.com (Lone Eagle)
Subject:	Yourself as a contact
Date:	Fri Mar 8 06:10:01 2002

Message no. 21 >From: Eleanor Holmes <jestyr@*********.com>
> >Int:
> >1 30
>
>Do you realise just /how/ incapable that is? Most trolls would require
>full-time carers.

IQ is a percentage equal to mental age over actual age, it is slightly
skewed at the low end of the scale (because the person will learn to care
for themselves rather than learn (for example) word association.) If I
remember rightly 30 is the split between "idiot" and the higher one (I
cannot remember the category names for the life of me but I think idiot is
right.) so it isn't a bad level for the really low int scores. Think about
it, average character age in shadowrun? maybe 24? (it makes the maths easy
if nothing else.) That makes your int 1 troll equivalent in learning
potential to an 8 year old of average intelligence, now I don't know any
eight year olds who are incapable of keeping themselves clean (unwilling
maybe.) and most of the ones I know would have a "Pokémon" know skill of
at
least 4 plus basic stuff like "get by at school" at 2 or 3.

I may be off the mark but I'd say that Int 1 is VERY low.

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From:	shadowrn@*********.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Subject:	Yourself as a contact
Date:	Fri Mar 8 07:05:04 2002

Message no. 22 On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Lone Eagle wrote:
> It isn't a bad way to work it, IQ represents your potential ability to
> learn, yes it's abstract but so's a character's int score.

Actually, no. IQ represents most accurately the skill to score high on IQ
tests, and little else.

Learning ability is much harder to measure.

One friend of me said just last week that the real test is done by
counting who takes the test and who doesn't. B-)

--
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<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@***.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]

From:	shadowrn@*********.com (Martin Little)
Subject:	Yourself as a contact
Date:	Fri Mar 8 07:15:01 2002

Message no. 23 On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Mikko V. I. Parviainen wrote:

> On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Lone Eagle wrote:
> > It isn't a bad way to work it, IQ represents your potential ability to
> > learn, yes it's abstract but so's a character's int score.
>
> Actually, no. IQ represents most accurately the skill to score high on IQ
> tests, and little else.
>
> Learning ability is much harder to measure.
>
> One friend of me said just last week that the real test is done by
> counting who takes the test and who doesn't. B-)
>
>
A person's belief in the accuracy of an IQ test is directly related to how
high they score on that test :)

From:	shadowrn@*********.com (Sebastian Wiers)
Subject:	Yourself as a contact
Date:	Fri Mar 8 08:20:01 2002

Message no. 24 >>gonna be damn rare. I think the whole scale is also maybe 10 points high-
>>many people with a 90 IQ are what would pass for "average" on the
street,
>
>By definition, 100 IQ is set as the global average.

My point is, somebody with a 90 IQ would be average enough to merit an
intellegence of 3, because they are probably "average" in terms of what
Shadowrun INT=3 represents. You also have the scale set so that a 4 int
represents an IQ of 120-130, which is a pretty small population. I figure
there would be a lot of INT 4 npc's.

"Average" includes a huge range of human stupidity. Ov course, so does
"genieus"...

-Seb

From:	shadowrn@*********.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Subject:	Yourself as a contact
Date:	Fri Mar 8 08:25:01 2002

Message no. 25 On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Martin Little wrote:
> A person's belief in the accuracy of an IQ test is directly related to how
> high they score on that test :)

Or inversely? The more intelligent people realize that the numbers are
likely to be at least part bogus?

This might of course be a function of education, too.

--
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<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]

From:	shadowrn@*********.com (Mark M. Smith)
Subject:	Yourself as a contact
Date:	Fri Mar 8 11:25:01 2002

Message no. 26 At 3/7/02 11:49 PM, you wrote:

>>>The rule of thumb I use is
>>>
>>>Int: IQ is at least:
>>>1 70
>>>2 85
>>>3 100
>>>4 120
>>>5 140
>>>6 160
>>>7 180
>
>I think this range goes high too quickly. 120 is significantly smart, 140
>is labelled genius.
>
>I'd start at 80 and go up by 10s.

To define according to the scale I'm most used to the gifted program in my
school district was for (IQ not being the entirety of course) IQs of 120+
and not without a number of rather unintelligent students. Largely it
consisted of the upper portions of the school regarding intelligence
however and I find that for whatever reason most of my friends were in or
declined to enter the program.

Looking over it again I might decrease the scores in order to better deal
with racial min./max. (100 =3, 200), maybe fudge it a bit and make it a
15 point increase.

--
Mark M. Smith
belgand@**************.com

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From:	shadowrn@*********.com (Mark M. Smith)
Subject:	Yourself as a contact
Date:	Fri Mar 8 11:30:00 2002

Message no. 27 At 3/8/02 01:56 PM, you wrote:
> >I always figured IQ's for even very smart people were lower than that, like
> >around 140-150, with 160+ being really rare.
>
>Yep. 170 or 180 counts as 'genius'. You've got to have over 140 to be
>eligible for MENSA. Etc.

140 for Mensa now? Wow... assuming they go by the test I'm assuming they do
that's a bit lower than I would have assumed. Time to finally get out and
apply.

--
Mark M. Smith
belgand@**************.com

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From:	shadowrn@*********.com (Derek Hyde)
Subject:	Yourself as a contact
Date:	Fri Mar 8 12:55:01 2002

Message no. 28 > The rule of thumb I use is
>
> Int: IQ is at least:
> 1 70
> 2 85
> 3 100
> 4 120
> 5 140
> 6 160
> 7 180
>
> I know IQ is not necessarily the best measure of intelligence out
there,
> but this is at least a decent scale.
Umm....if we're gonna use IQ for intelligence score then move mine
up........about a point

From:	shadowrn@*********.com (Derek Hyde)
Subject:	Yourself as a contact
Date:	Fri Mar 8 13:00:02 2002

Message no. 29 > I always figured IQ's for even very smart people were lower than that,
> like
> around 140-150, with 160+ being really rare. I dunno, I'm sure
somebody
> can
> describe the bell curve deviations in a second. But I'd expect the
scale
> there to run up to a "10" representing people who are 1-in-a-million
> briliant. 10 is actually possible for unmodified humans in SR, its
just
> gonna be damn rare. I think the whole scale is also maybe 10 points
high-
> many people with a 90 IQ are what would pass for "average" on the
street,
> and an attributte score of 4 doesn't really indacate ability that is
much
> above average.

Well the thing to remember here is that there are quite a few people in
the world that are either so smart that they're just plain stupid (i.e.
looking too deeply into things that they just don't see the obvious
stuff) and in my case there's a lot of us out there that are smart as
hell but just don't like to use it very often, if we put ourselves to
figuring something out we can and will generally not have TOO much
trouble with it however we just hate the typical treatment that "smart"
people get from everyone around them. We'll choose one or two things
and be good at them and just not worry about learning how to do much
else because of the way we're treated by our fellow workers and friends.
Consider this, how long would your friends stay friendly if you were
constantly showing off how smart you are and they're not as
smart.....either they'll become insecure with their inferiority or
they'll just get sick of your attitude even if you're not flaunting your
brains because they'll have their ideas of what THEY think you should be
doing with your intelligence and it'll piss em off cause you just don't
care to see things their way.

From:	shadowrn@*********.com (Meph)
Subject:	Yourself as a contact
Date:	Fri Mar 8 13:00:06 2002

Message no. 30 > I'd put it in the second, I come out way over standard build points which
> admittedly includes all of those little things that you never think about,
> for example I have a fishing skill of 3, I haven't fished for a long while
> but I know how, and I'm better than, "Grip line with forefinger, push over
> bail arm, draw arm back, cast... wait a little...etc." You may say that
> stuff like that doesn't count but why not? its all stuff that makes up who
I
> am.

But see i think in SR that would become more of a knowledge skill
than an active skill. Sure, I played Tuba in band in Jr. High....and while
I remember a lot of the theory behind it...can still sorta read music...I
couldn't ACTUALLY play to save my soul. Take fencing. I used to fence 10 +
hours a week, not to mention muscle excercises to do it better. Anbd I was
pretty damn good. Well, I haven't touched a blade in like three
years....and now while I rememeber EVRYTHING...I can't do it. I know what
I'm doing wrong and when....but I can't do it. I'm learning all over. Got
the theory and not the practice. Also fishing...as your example. Used to
go every sunday with my dad...haven't done it in forever. I couldn't even
make a lure work right without some serious working at it...ya know?

Meph

From:	shadowrn@*********.com (Meph)
Subject:	Yourself as a contact
Date:	Fri Mar 8 13:10:01 2002

Message no. 31 > A person's belief in the accuracy of an IQ test is directly related to how
> high they score on that test :)

Yes, but the validity of the S-B IQ tests is pretty good. Which
means that if you take it once, then your score the next time is not going
to be too far off. (I don't have the actualy numbers here in front of me
and don't feel like breaking out my old psych books). The best IQ tests is
the Wexler. But it runs off of way different numbers. I believe 100 is two
standard deviations over the normal...instead of 140.

Meph

From:	shadowrn@*********.com (Marc Renouf)
Subject:	Yourself as a contact
Date:	Fri Mar 8 13:25:01 2002

Message no. 32 On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, Eleanor Holmes wrote:

> The rule of thumb I use is
>
> Int: IQ is at least:
> 1 70
> 2 85
> 3 100
> 4 120
> 5 140
> 6 160
> 7 180

Holy Crap! By your metric, I already have Cerebral Boosters! :)
But it's been a while since I took a test. I should retest, because I've
certainly gotten old and stupid. I blame college. ;)

Marc Renouf (ShadowRN GridSec - "Bad Cop" Division)

Other ShadowRN-related addresses and links:
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Adam Jury <adamj@*********.com> Assistant List Administrator
DVixen <dvixen@*********.com> Keeper of the FAQs
Gurth <gurth@******.nl> GridSec Enforcer Division
David Buehrer <graht@******.net> GridSec "Nice Guy" Division
ShadowRN FAQ <http://hlair.dumpshock.com/faqindex.php3>;

From:	shadowrn@*********.com (Justin Bell)
Subject:	Yourself as a contact
Date:	Fri Mar 8 17:05:05 2002

Message no. 33 At 10:22 AM 3/8/2002 -0600, Mark M. Smith wrote:
>At 3/8/02 01:56 PM, you wrote:
>> >I always figured IQ's for even very smart people were lower than that, like
>> >around 140-150, with 160+ being really rare.
>>
>>Yep. 170 or 180 counts as 'genius'. You've got to have over 140 to be
>>eligible for MENSA. Etc.
>
>140 for Mensa now? Wow... assuming they go by the test I'm assuming they
>do that's a bit lower than I would have assumed. Time to finally get out
>and apply.

No, Mensa does not use IQ tests as a gauge, because they are all varied.
They use a percentile test, not sure of the specifics, but you must score
in the top 2%
--
Justin Bell
justin@******.net

From:	shadowrn@*********.com (Hahns Shin)
Subject:	Yourself as a contact
Date:	Fri Mar 8 18:30:01 2002

Message no. 34 Hmm, let's give this a shot:
Name: Hahns Shin
Nicknames: The Shininator, the Hahnsinator (I REALLY don't know why...)
Archetype: Medical student (2nd year)
Race/Gender: Human/Male (at least for now) 0 Build Points
Attributes: 40 Build Points
B 2
Q 2
S 2
C 4
I 6 (This is based on intuition and just general knowledge base, rather than
raw IQ scores)
W 4 (If you can't tell, I like even numbers, almost irrationally)

Skills: Roughly 42 Build Points
Pistols 3 (I live in Gary)
Martial Arts 1
Tae Kwon Do 3
Demolitions 3 (Don't ask)
Throwing Weapons 1
Nonaerodynamic 3 (I'm pretty good with a hatchet or a throwing knife)
Projectile Weapons 1
Bow 3 (I'm not an avid hunter, but I have insistent friends who are. I
enjoyed my time hunting, but it's not for me.)
Computer 4
Computer B/R 4
Electronics 2
Electronics B/R 4 (I'm the only person that I know who carries a soldering
iron and tools in my backpack pretty much everywhere)
Musical Performance 2
Violin 4 (Enough talent that I've earned money for it, and I can play
just about anything, given enough practice)
Singing 4 (Bass, just so you know)
Biotech 3 (Enough to save someone's life, not enough to make a living... I'm
working on it, obviously)
Car 3
Etiquette 3
Interrogation 2
Medical History 4

Knowledge Skills: Roughly 12-15 Build Points
Mathematics 3
Molecular Biology 2
Genetics 4
Medicine 3 (Guess where all my karma is being spent?)
Pharmacology 3 (This is helped by my bro, a pharm student)
Computer Background 3
Music Background 3 (I'm a big fan of music history)
Vocal Music 5 (acappella, choral, musicals, opera, anything with voice)
Musical Theater 4
Classical 5
Literature 3 (I read constantly... my room is full of books from all genres)
Quotes 5
Games 4 (General skill... I play all types of games)
Shadowrun 5 (...but I've played Shadowrun the most)
Trivia found in most trivia games 6 (I'm infamous for my ability at trivia
games... I'm the dude who ruins Jeopardy and Millionaire for everyone, the
one who read an encyclopedia as a kid)
Movies 3
Gadgetry 3

English 6/6 (I consider myself to have a mastery of the English language,
being a multiple Spelling Bee/Spellbowl champion and a whizbang essay writer
according to most of my teachers and peers. I'm also told that I talk like a
dictionary, though this is more of a consequence of education than anything.
My life consists of words and music. And games.)
Korean 2/1
German 2/1 (In both of these languages, I know enough to get to a nearby
bathroom, order food, and avoid direct conversation, but that's about it...
in short, I can go on a successful blind date in Korea or Germany)

Edges/Flaws:
College Education, Technical School Education (this is rather informal,
actually, but I can tear apart and put back together just about anything...
hopefully this will apply when I start taking apart and putting back
together human patients as well), Friendly Face, Speed Reader, Oblivious (I
zero in and concentrate on things, often ignoring outside details), In the
hole Level 2 (I'm accruing interest on my loan debt as we speak), Mild
Allegy, Unknown (This scares me. I'm allergic to something and I DON'T KNOW
WHAT IT IS), Amnesia Level 1 (This is a consequence of Med School)

Contacts: Many, but here are a few notable ones:
Pharm Student, Level 2 (my bro)
Law Student, Level 1 (would be higher, but he lives across the country,
making availability an issue)
Freelance Computer Tech, Level 2
Religious Advisor, Level 3 (My best friend, who is continually on a quest
for enlightenment, though this has been sidetracked by the possibility of
marrage in the near future... he has yet to propose, but I smell it coming)
Computer Game Designer, Level 1 (works at LucasArts)
Military Intelligence, Army, Level 1 (a friend who is in Germany right
now... the stories he tells me...)
University Choral Director, Level 1 (a nice contact for musical matters and
free tickets to concerts and shows)
University President, Level 1 (it's good to know people... sadly, this
didn't help me get into med school, seeing as I'm in a school other than my
undergrad university)
Various Doctors: Street, Legit, or otherwise.
Gang: Medical students (my homeys)

As far as the intelligence question, I'd have to go with two stances: 1)
That IQ tests only test abstract reasoning and certain kinds of clever
pattern matching, which is a good gauge of SOME kinds of intelligence.
People who take IQ tests tend to either have really high IQs or really low
IQs (formal testing to place students into "special education" classes). AND
2) That Roleplayers in general, especially ones with computer savvy, tend to
have a higher intelligence than the general population. Think of it this
way: The average person has an Intelligence of 3. Average people can also
barely wade his/herself around the Internet using a browser, and MAYBE they
can play a couple of games on their computer, but they wouldn't have the
faintest idea of how to use telnet or EMACs or even a simple DOS/UNIX
prompt. Also, Shadowrun, in general, is a difficult game to learn compared
to many other systems.

Hahns Shin, MS II
Budding cybersurgeon
"Fairy tales do not tell children the dragons exist. Children already know
that dragons exist. Fairy tales tell children the dragons can be killed."
-G. K. Chesterton

From:	shadowrn@*******.com (shadowrn@*******.com)
Subject:	Yourself as a contact
Date:	Sat Mar 9 05:40:01 2002

Message no. 35 On Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:18:43 -0500 "Hahns Shin" <Hahns_Shin@*******.com>
writes:
> Hmm, let's give this a shot:
> Name: Hahns Shin
> Nicknames: The Shininator, the Hahnsinator (I REALLY don't know
> why...)
> Archetype: Medical student (2nd year)
> Race/Gender: Human/Male (at least for now) 0 Build Points
<SNIP>

Is the for now referring to race or gender? :)

--
D. Ghost
Profanity is the one language all programmers know best
- Troutman's 6th programming postulate.

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From:	shadowrn@*********.com (Sebastian Wiers)
Subject:	Yourself as a contact
Date:	Sat Mar 9 11:35:01 2002

Message no. 36 >Hmm, let's give this a shot:
<snip in excess of 100 lines>

Hans- are all your contacts that detailed? ;-)

-Seb

From:	shadowrn@*********.com (Scott Hiller)
Subject:	Yourself as a Contact
Date:	Sat Mar 9 14:30:01 2002

Message no. 37 Here's what I have. It also is based on the fact a lot
of people here think I have pointed ears:
RACE: Elf
ATTRIBUTES (27):
Body 3
Quickness 4
Strength 4
Charisma 6
Intelligence 5
Willpower 5
Essence 4.31
(Magic) 4
Reaction 4
Initiative 4+1d6

SKILLS (30)
Name Rating
Aura Reading 2
Business Etiquette (Corporate) 2 (4)
Computer 3
Conjuring 3
Electronics 3
Etiquette (Elven) 2
Interrogation 2
Negotiation 1
Projectile Weapons 5
Sorcery 4
Stealth 2

KNOWLEDGE SKILLS
Name Rating
Animé Sim Chips 1
Computers Background 1
Drawing 4
Elvish Art 3
Elvish Music 1
Jewish Traditions 2
Know Neighborhood (Lincoln Park) 3
Magic Background 1
Safehouse Locations in CZ (Lincoln Park) 3
Simsense Games 3
Tolkein Sim Chips 1
Trideo Game Art 2

CYBERWARE
Type Rating
Datajack
Memory 150Mp
ASIST Converter (Datajack Accessory)
*Headware SONY� Chipman music Playback unit w/Router
* Headware Pocket Secretary w/Router
Cyberarm (obvious)
*Fingertip compartment with pen.
Cybereyes (natural-looking) with Low-Light, Image Link
(w/Router), Retinal Clock, Camera (w/ Router)
Subdermal Speakers
*Protective Eye Covers
*Optical Vision Magnification Lvl 3

ARMOR/GEAR
Type Rating
Ordinary Clothing 0/0
Secure Clothing 3/0
Secure Jacket 5/3
Secure Ultra-Vest 3/2
Secure Longcoat 4/2

SPELLS (25 Spell Points)
Name Force Drain
Slaughter Insect Form 2 +1D
Spiritblast 2 -1(DL+1)
Trid Entertainment 2 +1(M)
Analyze Truth 2 (L)
Enhance Aim 2 (M)
Compel Truth 2 +1(M)
Magic Fingers 2 +2(M)
Stunball 2 -1(DL+1)
Powerball 2 +1(DL+1)
Stealth 2 +1(M)
Improved Invisibility 2 +1(M)
Silence 2 +1(S)
Create Food 1 +1(S)

WEAPONS
Name Concealability STR Min Ammo Short Medium Long
Extreme Damage Modifiers
Standard Bow 2 3 Arrows 0-3 4-30 31-90 91-180 5M

EQUIPMENT & GEAR
Personal Computer 113Mp
Sorcery Library 2
Conjuring Library 2
Enchanting Library 2
White Noise Generator 3
Type II Maglocks Lvl6
Bug Scanner Lvl3
Dataline Scanner Lvl6
Data Encryption System 6
Sequencer Lvl3
Voice Identifier Lvl2
Camera Low-Light, UV, Expert Systems, Primitive AI
Software
Trid Screen and Playback Unit
41 Trideo Chips
134 Music Chips
Low Lifestyle 2 months
100 Arrows
Combat Fetish
Detection Fetish
Healing Fetish
Illusion Fetish
Manipulation Fetish
Enchanting Kit
Novatech Sandman Simsense Deck (polyPOV ACT)
12 ACT Simsense Recordings

__________________________________________________
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From:	shadowrn@*********.com (Hahns Shin)
Subject:	Yourself as a contact
Date:	Sat Mar 9 16:25:01 2002

Message no. 38 > > Archetype: Medical student (2nd year)
> > Race/Gender: Human/Male (at least for now) 0 Build Points
> <SNIP>
>
> Is the for now referring to race or gender? :)
>
Heh. Bravo! I'd like to think the statement only applied to my race, but who
knows what twisted future Fate may bring upon us on her whim? This will
teach me to not abbreviate race/gender/age categories into only one line.

Hahns Shin, MS II
Budding cybersurgeon
"Fairy tales do not tell children the dragons exist. Children already know
that dragons exist. Fairy tales tell children the dragons can be killed."
-G. K. Chesterton

From:	shadowrn@*********.com (Hahns Shin)
Subject:	Yourself as a contact
Date:	Sat Mar 9 16:30:01 2002

Message no. 39 > >Hmm, let's give this a shot:
> <snip in excess of 100 lines>
>
> Hans- are all your contacts that detailed? ;-)
>
> -Seb
Hehe. I guess I got carried away, but it's funny you should mention that.
Indeed, there are quite a few contacts in my game world that are detailed
like player-characters because they actually WERE player-characters in past
campaigns. Some are retired shadowrunners, some are rejected character
ideas, some are even dead shadowrunners in a different campaign timeline in
the future. Turner the Suit, Tor the Intelligent Troll Teaching Assistant
(don't ask), Austin the Cowboy Decker (who is currently a true Ghost in the
Machine), Phil "Bob" Smith the Cyberninja... lots of recurring characters
who were once PCs.

Of course, there are also many contacts in my campaign that get lip service,
as you can see from my personal contact list (Friend of a Friend rolls, I
guess).

Villains who become contacts are generally just as detailed as the PCs.
Other contacts tend to be fleshed out quite well by my players (Sherry is an
ex-girlfriend of the character who also happens to be a Secretary contact
for a former Fuchi subsidiary, now independent. She has stats, and an
amazing amount of combat skills from her former association with the
particular player).

Hahns Shin, MS II
Budding cybersurgeon
"Fairy tales do not tell children the dragons exist. Children already know
that dragons exist. Fairy tales tell children the dragons can be killed."
-G. K. Chesterton

From:	shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject:	Yourself as a contact
Date:	Sun Mar 10 04:30:01 2002

Message no. 40 According to Mikko V. I. Parviainen, on Fri, 08 Mar 2002 the word on the street was...

> Actually, no. IQ represents most accurately the skill to score high on IQ
> tests, and little else.

*grin*

> Learning ability is much harder to measure.

Though the test _was_ developed to figure out the subject's ability to learn (so that
it could be seen who needed extra attention -- the US basically inverted its purpose,
though).

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Dat is de kip voor het ei spannen.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

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Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

From:	shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject:	Yourself as a Contact
Date:	Sun Mar 10 04:30:05 2002

Message no. 41 According to Scott Hiller, on Sat, 09 Mar 2002 the word on the street was...

> Here's what I have. It also is based on the fact a lot
> of people here think I have pointed ears:
> RACE: Elf

Shouldn't that be "RACE: Human (Elf Poser)" in that case? :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Dat is de kip voor het ei spannen.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

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Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

From:	shadowrn@*********.com (Lone Eagle)
Subject:	Yourself as a contact
Date:	Mon Mar 11 05:20:01 2002

Message no. 42 >From: "Meph" <meph@*********.net>
> But see i think in SR that would become more of a knowledge skill
>than an active skill.

No, I may be a bit rusty but I can still do it, I know I can still do my
important knots because I've used them for other things since, It couldn't
be made into a know skill because if I took my rod and tackle bag out
tomorrow by the end of the day I'd be back to form.
Using a know skill to perform active tasks doesn't quite work that way, I'd
have to default to my willpower (patience) and use my fishing know skill as
a complementary skill, meaning only half my successes would count.
If you picked up a foil tomorrow you'd still be able to whoop my ass, (your
specialisation being notably higher than my broad skill (I fenced for about
six months but whaled away with a three foot bastard sword for much longer
but you put in about ten times my hours.))
Just because you don't use a skill for a while doesn't mean it immidiately
becomes a background know skill, your brain and more importantly your body
still know how to do it.
And anyway, know skills above the standard still cost so I'm still well
above the standard starting build points.
I would have said that every system falls into category B (I think it was B)
because if you gave people enough space for skills to cover all of their
abilities most people would still not have as many "background" skills as
they should. (it took me days to list everything I could do and I've
probably still missed some,) if I'd been given the number of build points it
took to build me then the character I built would have been godlike in game
mechanics because I wouldn't have thought about things like fishing.

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From:	shadowrn@*********.com (Lone Eagle)
Subject:	Yourself as a Contact
Date:	Mon Mar 11 06:05:00 2002

Message no. 43 >From: Gurth <Gurth@******.nl>
> > Here's what I have. It also is based on the fact a lot
> > of people here think I have pointed ears:
> > RACE: Elf
>
>Shouldn't that be "RACE: Human (Elf Poser)" in that case? :)

Maybe now but after UGE who knows?

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From:	shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject:	Yourself as a Contact
Date:	Mon Mar 11 13:40:01 2002

Message no. 44 According to Lone Eagle, on Mon, 11 Mar 2002 the word on the street was...

> >Shouldn't that be "RACE: Human (Elf Poser)" in that case? :)
>
> Maybe now but after UGE who knows?

The best you can hope for, in that case, is that Scott's children, ones
born 9+ years from now anyway, will be elves.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Dat is de kip voor het ei spannen.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++@ UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--) O
V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t@ 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

From:	shadowrn@*********.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Subject:	Yourself as a Contact
Date:	Tue Mar 12 03:50:00 2002

Message no. 45 On Mon, 11 Mar 2002, Gurth wrote:
> According to Lone Eagle, on Mon, 11 Mar 2002 the word on the street was...
> > >Shouldn't that be "RACE: Human (Elf Poser)" in that case? :)
> > Maybe now but after UGE who knows?
> The best you can hope for, in that case, is that Scott's children, ones
> born 9+ years from now anyway, will be elves.

Perhaps he's a spike baby?

--
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@***.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]

From:	shadowrn@*********.com (Lone Eagle)
Subject:	Yourself as a Contact
Date:	Tue Mar 12 04:00:01 2002

Message no. 46 >From: Gurth <Gurth@******.nl>
> > Maybe now but after UGE who knows?
>
>The best you can hope for, in that case, is that Scott's children, ones
>born 9+ years from now anyway, will be elves.

But we're writing ourselves up as if we were (for want of a better word) us
in 2063, ie our current selves projected 61 years into the future. From
Scott's posted self's point of view UGE happened ages ago.

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From:	shadowrn@*********.com (Derek Hyde)
Subject:	Yourself as a Contact
Date:	Tue Mar 12 16:40:05 2002

Message no. 47 > But we're writing ourselves up as if we were (for want of a better
word)
> us
> in 2063, ie our current selves projected 61 years into the future.
From
> Scott's posted self's point of view UGE happened ages ago.

Umm....mebbe you were doing that.....I'm fairly sure that the rest of us
are just writing up US as we are right now...

From:	shadowrn@*********.com (Malcolm)
Subject:	Yourself as a Contact
Date:	Tue Mar 12 18:30:00 2002

Message no. 48 > > But we're writing ourselves up as if we were (for want of a better
> word)
> > us
> > in 2063, ie our current selves projected 61 years into the future.
> From
> > Scott's posted self's point of view UGE happened ages ago.
>
> Umm....mebbe you were doing that.....I'm fairly sure that the rest of us
> are just writing up US as we are right now...
>
>
That was the Idea, someone, can't think who asked about 'mundane' contacts
ie accountants etc. so i though we could post ourselves as the skills would
be pretty static over 60 years in this kind of job

From:	shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject:	Yourself as a Contact
Date:	Wed Mar 13 05:30:04 2002

Message no. 49 According to Derek Hyde, on Tue, 12 Mar 2002 the word on the street was...

> > But we're writing ourselves up as if we were (for want of a better
> > word) us in 2063, ie our current selves projected 61 years into the
> > future.
>
> Umm....mebbe you were doing that.....I'm fairly sure that the rest of us
> are just writing up US as we are right now...

I get the distinct impression that some of us (like you and me) are
discussing from that POV, while others look at this thread from the "You in
the 2060s" standpoint. It doesn't make things any clearer, I know that...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Dat is de kip voor het ei spannen.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++@ UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--) O
V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t@ 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
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