From:	"I HAVE SOMETHING TO SAY...IT'S BETTER TO BURNOUT THEN TO FADE
Subject:	Re: Slavery: Applying human concepts to non-human entities.
Date:	Tue, 20 Apr 1993 12:10:16 -0600

>>>>>[I'm glad to see that others are adding their 0.02Ÿ on this subject,
thanks for your interest, Jeff. For a while I thought that Nightstalker was
going to be the only person responding to me and his posts are only there
so he can clear his conscience, and that of Raven.
Opps, sorry Nightstalker I appologize. It was rude, uncalled for and
unnessacary. Thwaps are expected and deserved.
On to my response to your theory, Jeff. The first order of buisness is to
determine if the summoning and subsiquent binding is voluntary. As far as
I have seen there is nothing gained by the elemental during its service.
It is summoned, it must respond. I can't see anything voluntary about that.
Your next point is that the psyche of the elementals my be so different
from us (humans) that the concept of slavery doesn't apply to them. This
my be true as I haven't heard of an elemental giving its point of view on
the issue.(It would be kind of hard to get one to fill out a questionare)
So I can't argue against this nor can it be proven. Next is your point
about immortality. I am quite aware of this fact but it would seem that
we would have less to offer to something that was immortal. What would
they care about our measly flickering lives? And it would seem to be even more
of a waste of their time to bother to come do part-time jobs for us.
You compaired a service of an elemental to asking a friend to hold open
a door for you. The difference is the service would be more like teleporting
someone from a different country to your room and telling them you can go
home when you open that door for me.
Now for free spirits. I already covered the Idea about a free spirits
birth in a post which I sent after I recieved yours. I would just like
to clear up the one point about killing an elemental. An elemental can be
killed by physical damage in astral space and banishment. Only free spirits
with the power hidden life can survive this. And free spirits can be killed
using their true name. And the spirits who become free don't do so because
of luck. As soon an elemental becomes uncontrolled it will go free if the
following conditions are met. (p.76 grimoire II) If it is higher than force
6, or has had a long history of association with man; ie. allies, elementals
bound for a few weeks, and spirits of man.(Or if the GM choses)
At any rate, I guess the only way that we will know the answer for sure
is to write to Ka-Ge and ask the drk lord himself. Otherwise everyone will
keep pointing out little tidbits text as evidence but with no real facts.
Hasta,
BurnouT
PS; if you see any other holes in my arguement please point them out
so that I'll be forced to reaserch more. Thanks again]<<<<<