From:	The Deb Decker <RJR96326@****.UTULSA.EDU>
Subject:	Magic Logic
Date:	Sat, 23 Oct 1993 16:11:18 GMT

Sorry Phelan. This Will be my last post regarding the subject to the list.
I bleeped your address acidentally.

>Uh, wrong. Western Sorcery is more or less unique in it's approach to
>magick as a science. All the other magickal tradtions I am even vaugely
>aware of would fall under the shamanic path-more or less.

Who came up with 'Western Sorcery'? I contend that Western Sorcery covers
hermetic magic the way Christianity covers Catholics and all the flavors of
protestants, as well as the Orthodox church. many differeing traditions with
a few ideas in common. Thus, Hume would have had to make choices (do we
measure Initiation or just have Initiates and non-Initiates). That's why it's
not THE approach. It's a composite.

>> BTW, you don't have to be an initiate to center or shield. I can do
>>both.

>How do you know you're not an Initiate?

Simple logic:
>P1 I am not an initiate

Too simple. "I am not an Initiate because I am not an Initiate." I've seen
circles with more complexity.

All you're doing is saying the same thing over again.

>P2 I can Center and Shield
>C One does not have to be an initiate to center & shield.

Which once again shows that ole' Paul wasn't following THE path. Maybe he read
about another hermetic-style sorcery you haven't heard of that postulates that
Centering Skills and Shielding can only be accomplished by Initiates.

So, anyone who listens to Phelan tell you about 'real magic' it's going to
be his understanding of it. Not 'the real thing'. I for one don't believe we
can come close to understanding the Truth of magic, and I also don't think
'real' magic is visible or tangible. Real magic is love, the strength of the
human spirit in adversity. It's the ability Humaniti has to live in filth, be
beaten every day, face the random baking of friends and family, and emerge
triumphant. It's just that the intangibles just don't have the visuals of the
'magic spells'.

>Initiation isn't a ceremony. It is a state of being.

Which would mean you could be an Initiate without a ceremony, which means
you could an Initiate without knowing it.



J Roberson