| From: | Unknown sender |
|---|---|
| Subject: | None |
| Date: | Unknown time and date |
everyone's love for him, I figured I'd pass one the info...
Vincent Price passed away last night in his sleep at the age of 82.
Darkness fall across the land
The midnight hour is close at and
and grizzly ghouls from every tomb
are closing in to seal your doom
And though you fight to stay alive,
your body starts to shiver.
For no mere mortal can resist,
the evil of the Thriller!
MWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
____ Robert A. Hayden <=> hayden@*******.mankato.msus.edu
\ /__ -=-=-=-=- <=> -=-=-=-=-
\/ / Finger for Geek Code Info <=> Veteran of the Bermuda Triangle
\/ Finger for PGP 2.3a Public Key <=> Expeditionary Force -- 1993-1951
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
(GEEK CODE 1.0.1) GSS d- -p+(---) c++(++++) l++ u++ e+/* m++(*)@ s-/++
n-(---) h+(*) f+ g+ w++ t++ r++ y+(*)
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1993 14:02:50 -0700
Reply-To: Nightfox <DJWA@******.UCC.NAU.EDU>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: Nightfox <DJWA@******.UCC.NAU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Sad business
>I know this isn't shadowrun related, but with Halloween here and
>everyone's love for him, I figured I'd pass one the info...
>
>Vincent Price passed away last night in his sleep at the age of 82.
>
>Darkness fall across the land
>The midnight hour is close at and
> and grizzly ghouls from every tomb
> are closing in to seal your doom
>And though you fight to stay alive,
> your body starts to shiver.
>For no mere mortal can resist,
> the evil of the Thriller!
>
>MWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Sniff. I liked Vincent Price. He did lots of nice evil stuff.
Dan.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1993 17:45:15 -0500
Reply-To: Incoming fire has the right-of-way <MHILLIARD@******.BITNET>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: Incoming fire has the right-of-way <MHILLIARD@******.BITNET>
Subject: New thwaps
New for Autumn '54, the Submachinecarp!
from Thwapdyne Industries!
TTTTTTTT HH HH WW WW WW AA PPPPPP PPPPPP II TTTTTTTT YY YY
TT HH HH WW WW WW AAAA PP PP PP PP II TT YY YY
TT HHHHHHHH W WW W AA AA PPPPPP PPPPPP II TT YYYY
TT HH HH WWWWWW AAAAAAAA PP PP II TT YY
TT HH HH WWWW AA AA PP PP II TT YY
TTTTTTTT HH HH WW WW WW AA PPPPPP PPPPPP II TTTTTTTT YY YY
TT HH HH WW WW WW AAAA PP PP PP PP II TT YY YY
TT HHHHHHHH W WW W AA AA PPPPPP PPPPPP II TT YYYY
TT HH HH WWWWWW AAAAAAAA PP PP II TT YY
TT HH HH WWWW AA AA PP PP II TT YY
TTTTTTTT HH HH WW WW WW AA PPPPPP
TT HH HH WW WW WW AAAA PP PP
TT HHHHHHHH W WW W AA AA PPPPPP
TT HH HH WWWWWW AAAAAAAA PP
TT HH HH WWWW AA AA PP
Keeping alive the rapid fire thwap!
Coming soon (just in time for Christmas!)
the new Light Machine Carp!
Assault Carp with underbarrel NERPS launcher!
and....
the dreaded Rotary AutoCarp!!
Be the envy of your friends, and the terror of your enemies! Get one today!
SubmachineCarp, Light Machine Carp, Assault Carp, and Rotary AutoCarp are
all trademarks of Thwapdyne Industries.
Thwapdyne Industries is a subsidary of Ares MacroThwap, Incorperated
=)
Phelan
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1993 16:53:25 -0500
Reply-To: The Reverend <MDB0213@*****.TAMU.EDU>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: The Reverend <MDB0213@*****.TAMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Sad business
]Vincent Price passed away last night in his sleep at the age of 82.
Here, here. A toast, to Vincent Price
*clink*
Solemnly,
The Reverend
---
The Reverend "They called me the Reverend when I entered the church unstained"
Fear the Information Revolution...for it has reached the hands of the strange.
PGP 2.2 Public Key Block available upon request
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1993 16:57:17 -0500
Reply-To: The Reverend <MDB0213@*****.TAMU.EDU>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: The Reverend <MDB0213@*****.TAMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: New players, gender benders, etc.
]but a new guy I am introducing is playing a
]hermetic female elf mage - so HE will be a little confused for a while.
HE? Dumb question, for the list in general: how have "gender benders" (i.e.
people playing members of the opposite sex) worked for y'all? I've seen 3+
done, but have yet to see one done well. (IMHO, guys)
]Oh - the other reason he did this was that one
]of the players was using a character from another game. the character is a
]grade 0 init.
Another question, of a similar nature. How many problems do your campaigns
(I'm not talking about one-shots, necessarily, but rather campaigns) have with
new players coming in from other campaigns? I'm curious as to how the power
level changes when people come in.
---
The Reverend "They called me the Reverend when I entered the church unstained"
Fear the Information Revolution...for it has reached the hands of the strange.
PGP 2.2 Public Key Block available upon request
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1993 19:34:31 EDT
Reply-To: "Michael A. Kauffman" <mak9@******.EDU>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: "Michael A. Kauffman" <mak9@******.EDU>
Subject: Re: Caseless ammo
>V1JUIHRoZSBub3ZlbHMgYmFzZWQgb24gdGhlIGdhbWU6ICB0aGUgYW1tbyB1c2Vk
>IGlzIE5PVCBpbiBhIGJsb2NrIG1vcmUgbGlrZWx5DQplYWNoIHJvdW5kIGlzIGhl
Hayden are you giving this guy lessons on how to send messages. (of course
this probably looks fine to you.)
+---------------------+----------------------+--------------------------+
| Michael A. Kauffman | Lehigh University | 670 Atlantic Str. |
| A.K.A. Amonchare | Chemistry Department | Bethlehem, PA 18015-3538 |
| Guak | 6 E. Packer Ave. | (215) 758-5468 (w) |
| mak9@******.edu | Bethlehem, PA 18015 | (215) 868-5043 (h) |
+---------------------+----------------------+--------------------------+
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 09:42:41 EST
Reply-To: Chris Ryan <chrisr@*******.FIT.QUT.EDU.AU>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: Chris Ryan <chrisr@*******.FIT.QUT.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: New thwaps
Lots of gratuitious thwaps deleted.
> SubmachineCarp, Light Machine Carp, Assault Carp, and Rotary AutoCarp are
> all trademarks of Thwapdyne Industries.
> Thwapdyne Industries is a subsidary of Ares MacroThwap, Incorperated
^^^^^^^^^^^^
Perhaps that should be Incarperated?
:-)
Chris
(Running before he gets incarcerated...)
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1993 18:48:24 -0500
Reply-To: Hobbes Patrol Headquarters <TYGER@****.WINONA.MSUS.EDU>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: Hobbes Patrol Headquarters <TYGER@****.WINONA.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: THIS is freaky...
>I know this isn't shadowrun related, but with Halloween here and
>everyone's love for him, I figured I'd pass one the info...
>Vincent Price passed away last night in his sleep at the age of 82.
This is weird. I got the reaction to this message BEFORE I got the
original!
>MWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
You can say that again...
-Tyger
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
"It's not like talking with people. With people, anything can be said and
nothing matters. Words and words and words. You go to a party... people
sit around and say things. Anything. Just to talk. Put forth views and
debate them. Sometimes you get a new idea. Sometimes something changes"
-Luicifer
From "Virtual Realities"
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 10:04:58 EST
Reply-To: Chris Ryan <chrisr@*******.FIT.QUT.EDU.AU>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: Chris Ryan <chrisr@*******.FIT.QUT.EDU.AU>
Subject: Totem - Dolphin
Hi everyone,
Has anyone created a totem for Dolphin? I'm thinking of using one,
and I'd like suggestions about creating it.
Thanks,
Chris
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1993 20:17:18 -0500
Reply-To: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@*******.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@*******.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: Re: THIS is freaky...
On Tue, 26 Oct 1993, Hobbes Patrol Headquarters wrote:
> This is weird. I got the reaction to this message BEFORE I got the
> original!
Vinnie P's magic is weaved even from the reaches of death.
> >MWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>
> You can say that again...
Yea, but I might hurt myself...
____ Robert A. Hayden <=> hayden@*******.mankato.msus.edu
\ /__ -=-=-=-=- <=> -=-=-=-=-
\/ / Finger for Geek Code Info <=> Veteran of the Bermuda Triangle
\/ Finger for PGP 2.3a Public Key <=> Expeditionary Force -- 1993-1951
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
(GEEK CODE 1.0.1) GSS d- -p+(---) c++(++++) l++ u++ e+/* m++(*)@ s-/++
n-(---) h+(*) f+ g+ w++ t++ r++ y+(*)
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1993 21:36:34 -0400
Reply-To: "GCS/MU d? -P+ c++ l u-(+) e+(++) m(+)(*)@ s/+ n-(---) h f+@ w+
t+ r+ y+(**)" <JMCPHERS@******.BITNET>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: "GCS/MU d? -P+ c++ l u-(+) e+(++) m(+)(*)@ s/+ n-(---) h f+@ w+
t+ r+ y+(**)" <JMCPHERS@******.BITNET>
Subject: Re: New thwaps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=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 11:38:17 EST
Reply-To: Chris Ryan <chrisr@*******.FIT.QUT.EDU.AU>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: Chris Ryan <chrisr@*******.FIT.QUT.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: New thwaps
> uz4gTG90cyBvZiBncmF0dWl0aW91cyB0aHdhcHMgZGVsZXRlZC4NCrs+ICANCrs+
Yeah? Is that what you think? Is that what you want? Well <bleep>...
Er, hmm, minor aberration there, I've taken the medication now...
:-)
Chris
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1993 20:41:18 EST
Reply-To: steven mancini <mancinis@******.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: steven mancini <mancinis@******.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject: Re: New players, gender benders, etc.
In-Reply-To: <9310262224.AA02927@******.cc.purdue.edu>; from "The
Reverend" at
Oct 26, 93 4:57 pm
To quote The Reverend:
]
] HE? Dumb question, for the list in general: how have "gender benders" (i.e.
] people playing members of the opposite sex) worked for y'all? I've seen 3+
] done, but have yet to see one done well. (IMHO, guys)
]
We have had several successful "gender benders" of a sort. They
were not truly "bent". I have had 2+ homosexual players who
have elected to run female characters. They have worked out
well. In fact one character, "Black Widow", is a female elf,
run by a gay male, is a lesbian. She has worked out quite
well.
]
] Another question, of a similar nature. How many problems do your campaigns
] (I'm not talking about one-shots, necessarily, but rather campaigns) have with
] new players coming in from other campaigns? I'm curious as to how the power
] level changes when people come in.
]
Good Question. I and several of my players are recovering munchkins.
For example, I used to play Ronin- a Grade 19 Weretiger Physical
Adept who was given shamanic adept status by Tiger so that he could
become an Avatar to this world in their fight against the Insect
Totems...
I went from that to the rather strict guidelines we as a group
decided to follow. This may also explain why I reject many of the
"Cause I am the GM" rationalities, eg my recent question regarding
a stacked foci- I basically ignored those responses which reduced to
calling the player a munchkin, telling him "cause I said so", etc...
We invite new players to our game *only* after the current players
have met with the potential player and agree to have them. We have
had very few rejections, and most of those were because of personal
reasons.
Anyway, after this initial "interview", the person is guided in the
player construction system and is given a comprehensive list of the
house rules. This way the person knows in advance all the peculiars
of our game. The player is also given a Sponsor, someone experienced
in our game who will act as the new players mentor, regardless of
their gaming experience. This is the new players first line of
defense with regard to questions.
We have had only 3 people reject our system and revert to their
former munchkin status with the GM who most of us left. One left
of his own free will to return to F******r, the Grade 20 Hermetic
Magician who has a set of rings that provide him 8 auto successes
to distribute as he sees fit through any magic test. The other two
could not adjust to the new game and we subsequently stopped inviting
them when they complained about how weak their characters are.
Anyway, what this lecture boils down to is that regardless of our
new players former status (old SR players, Munchkins, newbies, etc)
we have found that taking them by the hand through the character
creation process, providing them a comprehensive list of house rules
rather than learn them as the game progresses, and most of all, a
sponsor (similar to the sponsors in MUDs) from within the game
who can answer their questions as the game progresses, contribute
to a positive adjustment for new players. You can always ask my/our
players- there is at least one of our new players monitoring this
list=> Speak Up Tom!
Hope this helps...
Da Minotaur
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1993 20:43:52 -0500
Reply-To: Hobbes Patrol Headquarters <TYGER@****.WINONA.MSUS.EDU>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: Hobbes Patrol Headquarters <TYGER@****.WINONA.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: Re: New thwaps
(From JMCPHERS%SITVXC.bitnet@*****.nic.SURFnet.nl, in part:)
ZXJhdGVkLi4uKQ0KDQpIZXQtaGVtbW0uLi4uLi4uDQoNClRUVFRUVFRUVFRUVCAg
CUhICSBISCAgIFdXCSAgICBXVyAgIElJICAgIFNTU1MJSEgJIEhIDQogICAgIFRU
CQlISCAgCSBISCAgIFdXCSAgICBXVwkgSUkgICBTUyAgU1MJSEgJIEhIDQogICAg
IFRUCQlISEhISEhISEhISCAgIFdXCSAgICBXVwkgSUkgICAgU1MJSEhISEhISEhI
(Umm, what did that mean?)
-Tyger
(Who dosn't HAVE a PGP thingie, nor to room for it :(
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
"It's not like talking with people. With people, anything can be said and
nothing matters. Words and words and words. You go to a party... people
sit around and say things. Anything. Just to talk. Put forth views and
debate them. Sometimes you get a new idea. Sometimes something changes"
-Luicifer
From "Virtual Realities"
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1993 20:51:39 -0500
Reply-To: Hobbes Patrol Headquarters <TYGER@****.WINONA.MSUS.EDU>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: Hobbes Patrol Headquarters <TYGER@****.WINONA.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: Re: New players, gender benders, etc.
To quote The Reverend:
]
] HE? Dumb question, for the list in general: how have "gender benders" (i.e.
] people playing members of the opposite sex) worked for y'all? I've seen 3+
] done, but have yet to see one done well. (IMHO, guys)
]
> We have had several successful "gender benders" of a sort. They
> were not truly "bent". I have had 2+ homosexual players who
> have elected to run female characters. They have worked out
> well. In fact one character, "Black Widow", is a female elf,
> run by a gay male, is a lesbian. She has worked out quite
> well.
A local player frequently runs female characters (He's a male, as can be
abvious of the pronoun, neh?) But most of them are the same. A female who
seems 'butch' homosexual (IE a man in a girl suit). But oh well.
This is the same guy who, in his game, can have a SWAT team touch down
three seconds into a firefight in the Barrens (when, BTW, we were doing
nothing ELSE illegal...)
Munchkin or bad actor. You be the judge.
-Tyger
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
"It's not like talking with people. With people, anything can be said and
nothing matters. Words and words and words. You go to a party... people
sit around and say things. Anything. Just to talk. Put forth views and
debate them. Sometimes you get a new idea. Sometimes something changes"
-Luicifer
From "Virtual Realities"
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1993 20:48:17 EST
Reply-To: steven mancini <mancinis@******.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: steven mancini <mancinis@******.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Totem - Dolphin
In-Reply-To: <9310270038.AA16019@******.cc.purdue.edu>; from "Chris Ryan"
at
Oct 27, 93 10:04 am
To quote Chris Ryan:
]
] Has anyone created a totem for Dolphin? I'm thinking of using one,
] and I'd like suggestions about creating it.
]
DOLPHIN
Environment: Sea
Advantages: +2 Dice for Sea Spirits
+2 Dice for spells cast in -or- on the Ocean.
Character: Dolphin is inscrutable to most land dwellers. Dolphin shamans
are fond of games, and they like to play around. However, they are not
frivolous, and they know when to take things seriously. They enjoy solving
problems and puzzles, or finding elegant solutions to complex situations.
It is rumored that there are Dolphins capable entering Astral Space, and
any Dolphin Shaman would tell you that it is so.
Disadvantages: Dolphin tends to get caught up in the problems of others,
and is always devoting herself to several causes at once. Dolphin shamans
will often throw themselves whole-heartedly into a problem or cause without
looking fully into it first.
----
There ya go. I retrieved this off a huge list of totems published
some time back on rec.games.frp.cyber
Say hi to Flipper for me...
Da Minotaur
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1993 19:21:20 -0700
Reply-To: Nightfox <DJWA@******.UCC.NAU.EDU>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: Nightfox <DJWA@******.UCC.NAU.EDU>
Subject: Gender Bender
I have seen a very good Gender bender done by a member of this list
Erin B. Parker - of course it wasn't the normal gender bender of a guy
playing a girl - it was a Girl playing a Guy - namely THE NEXUS
Any one who has roleplayed with Erin (Tom, Adam, Brian and myself)
will agree that she does the character very well.
Dan
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1993 21:34:12 GMT
Reply-To: RJR96326@****.UTULSA.EDU
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: The Deb Decker <RJR96326@****.UTULSA.EDU>
Subject: I'm fixing a Hole
What:
Nice idea for expanding laws. Try the following revision and see if
it works:
Shaman wants to increase Force of Lodge. Charge him the difference
in price. Example: If he want to go from a Force 4 lodge to Force 6, find the
price of each and charge him only that amout.
For the "Sentimental Journey" I think a Teddy Bear might be kinda small.
The cumulative value of stuff ought to be egual to the difference in price. Of
course, the GM can rule that a few items are worth more than their pawn value
if, as in the Teddy Bear example, the object is value by the Shaman at more
than the going rate, i.e. "something money can't buy".
J Roberson
dir
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1993 19:40:44 -0700
Reply-To: Nightfox <DJWA@******.UCC.NAU.EDU>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: Nightfox <DJWA@******.UCC.NAU.EDU>
Subject: Re: thwapp
> lots of fraggin junk deleted
AHHHHH!!!!!!
I see, the disintegrating before it hits carp.
Dan
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1993 21:52:49 GMT
Reply-To: RJR96326@****.UTULSA.EDU
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: The Deb Decker <RJR96326@****.UTULSA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire Campaign!
> What should the races of the runners be?
ANything they want. You'll have to review your plot for situations
where being of or not being of a certain race will seriously block an adventure,
and have a way around it. At least have Rent-an NPC available if the party
can't do the job.
> Should they be natives ?
Depends on your campaign. They should have a good reason for being
there. They may be watched by The Powers Above.
> If not, is there a resonable way for them to get in ?
See above. If you want the campaign to start in the Tir, just make
sure that everyone has a reason for starting (and at least temporarily
staying there-no people there in the middle of a run).
> Should it be a one time run, or could such a society support
> steady running?
Again, this is up to you. I imagine anyone who can operate in the
Tir would be very valuable--the jobs are fewer and farther between, but would
pay more than the average Srun. And just because they run doesn't mean they have
to forego a day gig-they can own shops, run courier services, or be private
investigators.
I picture this campaign as a set of respectable, above-average, less
combat-oriented runners. Genteel 'Sneakers', as it were. They get ambitious
jobs, mostly running for or against (sometimes both) the Tir government itself.
They'll have extensive, highly-placed contacts to bail them out of minor
trouble.
J Roberson
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1993 21:58:53 GMT
Reply-To: RJR96326@****.UTULSA.EDU
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: The Deb Decker <RJR96326@****.UTULSA.EDU>
Subject: Re: names
> NERPS: ShadowLore
>It's a nice clean acronym that can be applied to any of the topics we
>might make. Has nice inside joke and a cute slam on GURPS. What mroe
>could you want.
Hardly a slam of any kind on GURPS. Why would you want to slam it, anyway?
:)
J Roberson
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1993 22:55:47 EDT
Reply-To: Dennis Watson <watson@********.SCRI.FSU.EDU>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: Dennis Watson <watson@********.SCRI.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Add in's & Gender swaps
Well, I run a couple of campaigns, so I have addressed the problem of
people bringing old charachters into a new campaign. I've found that
once you get beyond 50-60 karma, it's no good at all. Make a new
one. Lower than that, and one member of the party is a bit more
rounded, or specialized, but it's not too unbalancing. The problem I
have is new charachters in an old campaign. If anyone has any cures
for this, let me know.
I've only ever seen two gender-benders. Both were hetero guys
playing attractive gals. In both cases, the guys played all of those
traits they liked in women. Needless to say, these gals were a tad
strange, as no woman I have met has actually combined a sweet
disposition with a willingness to kill. Maybe I just haven't met
enough women.
<<<warning. I'm not trying to be sexist. If you are a woman who
combines a sweet disposition with a willingness to kill, just
mail me. No flames, please.>>>
I've never tried to play a woman myself, as I can't really think in
terms of being attracted to guys. The attempts I've seen haven't been
that bad though.
Well, I've rambled enough..
--
Lord Dennis E. Watson, B.A.M.F., Master of the Cheese.
"Okay, here's the plan. First we'll try to sneak in. If that fails,
we bluff our way through. If that fails, we shoot anything that
moves, get what we want, and then shoot our way out."
"I didn't say it was a _good_ plan."
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1993 22:58:54 -0500
Reply-To: Incoming fire has the right-of-way <MHILLIARD@******.BITNET>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: Incoming fire has the right-of-way <MHILLIARD@******.BITNET>
Subject: Re: New thwaps
In a previous article, Chris Ryan <chrisr@*******.FIT.QUT.EDU.AU> wrote:
>Message sent: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 09:42:41 -0500 (EST).
>(Running before he gets incarcerated...)
Perhaps you meant inCARPerated?
=)
Phelan
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1993 22:08:43 GMT
Reply-To: RJR96326@****.UTULSA.EDU
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: The Deb Decker <RJR96326@****.UTULSA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Starting a new party
>But THEY DON'T KNOW S**T ABOUT MAGIC, CYBERPUNK MOVEMENT AND STUFF LIKE THAT.
Hard Sell. How good are you at writing?
Seriously, one thing I did when I GM'd was write up 1 or 2 page papers that
sort of acted as a FAQ for whatever campaign I was running. Campaign background,
basic game mechanics, and other things digested for immediate understanding.
If you do that for each one of those topics and hand your players the pages,
it'll help them understand things and prompt questions for you to answer. It
focuses things for you.
As for characters, rather than recommend certain spells, equipment, and skills
that you use, I would tell them which ones are used frequently and help out
the most. For instance Willpower is really important for magic, both for caster
and subject, and that Intelligence and Quickness determine Reaction, and how
important Initiative can be. Cite a few examples.
Point out some special combinations of equipment. For instance, the rangefinder/
smartlink/grenade set-up. ALso point out neat combinations that will be of
limited use.
I would spend your first 'session' getting everyone together and going over
characters an mechanics, perhaps running a few rules sections (decking, combat,
magic) with the assumption that it won't affect the campaign much, and then
actually starting play at a later date.
J Roberson
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1993 22:13:14 -0500
Reply-To: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@*******.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@*******.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Gender Bender
On Tue, 26 Oct 1993, Nightfox wrote:
> I have seen a very good Gender bender done by a member of this list
>
> Erin B. Parker - of course it wasn't the normal gender bender of a guy
> playing a girl - it was a Girl playing a Guy - namely THE NEXUS
ARRRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!
I hate the term 'girl' used to define anyone over the age of about 15 or
so. ARRRGH!
> Any one who has roleplayed with Erin (Tom, Adam, Brian and myself)
> will agree that she does the character very well.
In my expierience, I've never met a man that was able to play a woman
without reducing the charact5er to some kind of effeminant wimp or a
total slut. Too the point where I make it a point of not allowing people
to play the opposite gender.
Facist GM at work? Nah, I just hate stereotypes.
____ Robert A. Hayden <=> hayden@*******.mankato.msus.edu
\ /__ -=-=-=-=- <=> -=-=-=-=-
\/ / Finger for Geek Code Info <=> Veteran of the Bermuda Triangle
\/ Finger for PGP 2.3a Public Key <=> Expeditionary Force -- 1993-1951
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
(GEEK CODE 1.0.1) GSS d- -p+(---) c++(++++) l++ u++ e+/* m++(*)@ s-/++
n-(---) h+(*) f+ g+ w++ t++ r++ y+(*)
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1993 22:21:31 GMT
Reply-To: RJR96326@****.UTULSA.EDU
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: The Deb Decker <RJR96326@****.UTULSA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Python
> And you must spank us. Yes!!! spank us please
But what about your Monkey?
> But I'm not AFRAID!!!! Let me face the danger!!!!
I refer you to the aforementioned monkey.
> And of course "I am the Sorcerer TIM"
Or the Dog Shaman Rin-Tim-Tim
J Roberson
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1993 22:23:48 GMT
Reply-To: RJR96326@****.UTULSA.EDU
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: The Deb Decker <RJR96326@****.UTULSA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Sad business
>Vincent Price passed away last night in his sleep at the age of 82.
Sad Deal. But I'll listen to Price recite Poe's "Raven" before I listen to
Michael Jackson. Besides, Thriller makes me think of another song which UPS
folks are familiar with. . .
J Roberson
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1993 22:29:59 -0500
Reply-To: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@*******.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@*******.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Sad business
On Tue, 26 Oct 1993, The Deb Decker wrote:
> >Vincent Price passed away last night in his sleep at the age of 82.
>
> Sad Deal. But I'll listen to Price recite Poe's "Raven" before I listen to
> Michael Jackson. Besides, Thriller makes me think of another song which UPS
> folks are familiar with. . .
Thriller was the first thing I could come up with .....
____ Robert A. Hayden <=> hayden@*******.mankato.msus.edu
\ /__ -=-=-=-=- <=> -=-=-=-=-
\/ / Finger for Geek Code Info <=> Veteran of the Bermuda Triangle
\/ Finger for PGP 2.3a Public Key <=> Expeditionary Force -- 1993-1951
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
(GEEK CODE 1.0.1) GSS d- -p+(---) c++(++++) l++ u++ e+/* m++(*)@ s-/++
n-(---) h+(*) f+ g+ w++ t++ r++ y+(*)
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1993 22:59:01 GMT
Reply-To: RJR96326@****.UTULSA.EDU
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: The Deb Decker <RJR96326@****.UTULSA.EDU>
Subject: Re: New players, gender benders, etc.
> We have had several successful "gender benders" of a sort. They
> were not truly "bent". I have had 2+ homosexual players who
> have elected to run female characters. They have worked out
> well. In fact one character, "Black Widow", is a female elf,
> run by a gay male, is a lesbian. She has worked out quite
> well.
I must publicly disagree with the implicit assumption that gay men are somehow
bending the gender fence less than straight men who play female characters.
I have to admit that I don't feel I did Jaez justice playing her, but then
again many of the situations we found ourselves in, one's gender was not
important.
One other female character that I played I felt I felt the difference most
when I played a noblewoman on a mission to an Islamic country in GURPS (there's
that word again!) Deryni campaign, because of the culture and the campaign. I
think in combat-oriented camapaigns you sex is irrelevant, and only becomes
important if heavy role-playing happens. Even then, if gender is unimportant
to all the characters involved in a scene, it won't be a problem.
J Roberson
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1993 22:16:16 MDT
Reply-To: Jim Tyler <pherble@*****.COM>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: Jim Tyler <pherble@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Gender Bender
In-Reply-To: <9310270314.AA09513@***.cscns.com>; from "Robert A. Hayden"
at
Oct 26, 93 10:13 pm
> I hate the term 'girl' used to define anyone over the age of about 15 or
> so. ARRRGH!
>
> > Any one who has roleplayed with Erin (Tom, Adam, Brian and myself)
> > will agree that she does the character very well.
>
> In my expierience, I've never met a man that was able to play a woman
> without reducing the charact5er to some kind of effeminant wimp or a
> total slut. Too the point where I make it a point of not allowing people
> to play the opposite gender.
>
> Facist GM at work? Nah, I just hate stereotypes.
I recently played a female rocker archetype at Tacticon here in Colorado.
I agree that many times it is difficult to play a character of the
opposite sex, but I found that this instance was fun and very successful.
Maybe because there wasn't time to think, just play the role and the game.
One thing I find funny, and sometimes a pain in the butt is that if there
is a relationship between one character and another (romantic) that
players sometimes have difficulty role-playing that aspect. In the
aforementioned tourney, I (that is my character) was supposed to have a
crush on the big bad sammy leader, but if I made any reference in play to
it, the other player pointedly ignored it; much to the GM's amusement.
--
Jim Tyler
pherble@*****.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1993 23:20:53 GMT
Reply-To: RJR96326@****.UTULSA.EDU
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: The Deb Decker <RJR96326@****.UTULSA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Add in's & Gender swaps
>have is new charachters in an old campaign. If anyone has any cures
>for this, let me know.
What we started doing for new characters in the old campaign is giving the
newbies karma based on how much the group had earned, to bring them up
to speed.
> I've only ever seen two gender-benders. Both were hetero guys
>playing attractive gals. In both cases, the guys played all of those
>traits they liked in women. Needless to say, these gals were a tad
>strange, as no woman I have met has actually combined a swee
>disposition with a willingness to kill. Maybe I just haven't met
>enough women.
Yes, this is the biggest problem I've seen: As Tyger said, Guys in girl suits.
Rather than spread bullshit on how men and women act, ask yourself: "Is this
character believable". That, after all, is what really matters.
<<<warning. I'm not trying to be sexist. If you are a woman who
combines a sweet disposition with a willingness to kill, just
mail me. No flames, please.>>>
Watch "Bubblegum Crisis" or "Dirty Pair". Or "Street
Fighter" and "Mortal
Kombat". Better Yet, "Thelma & Louise".
>I've never tried to play a woman myself, as I can't really think in
>terms of being attracted to guys. The attempts I've seen haven't been
>that bad though.
Being a woman involves a LOT more than being attracted to men, or women if
you're a lesbian. In fact, a professional runner of either sex will leave
their attraction at home while on a run or meeting Mr. Johnson.
J Roberson
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1993 23:33:43 GMT
Reply-To: RJR96326@****.UTULSA.EDU
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: The Deb Decker <RJR96326@****.UTULSA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Gender Bender
>> I hate the term 'girl' used to define anyone over the age of about 15 or
>> so. ARRRGH!
Well, I don't like being referred to as a man, because I LIKE being a Youthful
Idealist. I don't feel like boy or gil diminishes someone, which I believe is
the reasoning behind the "women, not girls" movement. Adults are so SERIOUS
sometimes. . .
>> > Any one who has roleplayed with Erin (Tom, Adam, Brian and myself)
>> > will agree that she does the character very well.
Yes, she played well all the stereotypical aspects of masculinity that I
despise. I think Erin's a good example: she played one *kind* of guy; there
are as many different kinds of both men and women as there are people.
> In my expierience, I've never met a man that was able to play a woman
> without reducing the charact5er to some kind of effeminant wimp or a
> total slut. Too the point where I make it a point of not allowing people
> to play the opposite gender.
I hope no one thinks Jaez was a slut. She was meant to be a rather social
girl, but didn't sleep with everyone. Now there's a stereotype for you.
Reminds of one of the few scenes we played where her sex was important. From
the Harlequin book. We were at a party, and this technodweeb kept bugging her
for her phone number. My response?
"5-5-5-. . ."
This has to be repeated before the GM decided he got the hint. It was fun.
Yes, romance CAN be hard to play between two players who aren't attracted to
each other *regardless of gender or orientation, and is even more complicated
if either party feels it might blossom into a real attraction from one player
to the other.
J Roberson
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1993 21:31:49 -0700
Reply-To: Nightfox <DJWA@******.UCC.NAU.EDU>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: Nightfox <DJWA@******.UCC.NAU.EDU>
Subject: Gender
Well I personally lament the fact that I do not play gender that well.
I mean - The guys in my group are more often in the spotlight and I
really don't play the women well. I am trying to get a little better at it.
Oh - I have met nice girls that like to Kill - well atleast be really nasty.
My friend Jenn back at my old school was very nice - but she liked to
do saber fencing sometimes because she wanted to hurt something, or somebody.
But she was really sweet - and gave great back rubs too.
Dan.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1993 23:42:41 GMT
Reply-To: RJR96326@****.UTULSA.EDU
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: The Deb Decker <RJR96326@****.UTULSA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Gender
> I mean - The guys in my group are more often in the spotlight and I
I know that feeling. :)
I've also know women who like to be tough. What I've discovered is that the
same traits that I find annoying in mean are equally annoying in women who
exhibit them.
J Roberson
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1993 22:46:26 MDT
Reply-To: Jim Tyler <pherble@*****.COM>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: Jim Tyler <pherble@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Gender
In-Reply-To: <9310270440.AA17708@***.cscns.com>; from "The Deb Decker" at
Oct
26, 93 11:42 pm
>
> > I mean - The guys in my group are more often in the spotlight and I
>
> I know that feeling. :)
>
> I've also know women who like to be tough. What I've discovered is that the
> same traits that I find annoying in mean are equally annoying in women who
> exhibit them.
>
And it is even worse when those women can beat the crap out of you. OWWW!
--
Jim Tyler
CNS/Internet Customer Service
pherble@*****.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1993 21:48:26 -0700
Reply-To: Nightfox <DJWA@******.UCC.NAU.EDU>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: Nightfox <DJWA@******.UCC.NAU.EDU>
Subject: Gender
Please don't get me wrong about Jenn, she was definatley female and definately
feminen. But some times she would just say "I NEED to do epee or saber
tonight" those where the times when I cringed. I was better than her in
either, but when she hit - she had no remorse. She also tended to hit more on
those nights.
The most amusing female though is called Patty. She is the sweetest most
harmless person I know. She looks like she is 12 - 14, she is a substitute
elementary school teacher - which makes for a lot of fun when people mistake her
for one of the kids. She is married to a guy called Paul, who is a rather
strong and dangerous guy - he once punched 90 degrees right (straight out not
forward) into a SOLID brick wall instead of forward into the guys face. He
didn't fell like coming up on murder charges. The wall broke.
The amusing thing is that she will BEAT, and I mean BEAT!!, on him if he
misbehaves or makes an off color comment (like mauve). Of course - she really
can't hurt him - it like you getting beat upon by a 10 year old - it don't
really hurt.
Dan
Of course - I have never met anybody who really LIKES to kill and is nice and
has done it.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1993 23:52:12 -0500
Reply-To: Hobbes Patrol Headquarters <TYGER@****.WINONA.MSUS.EDU>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: Hobbes Patrol Headquarters <TYGER@****.WINONA.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: Gender (more on that thread...)
> I mean - The guys in my group are more often in the spotlight and I
>really don't play the women well. I am trying to get a little better at it.
I'm kinda reminded of a friend of mine. He has a friend who
is black, but he wasn't sure of what exactally was 'politically correct' to
call him. So he approached his friend with the question of what was the
'correct' way to refer to his race. His friend told him "How about 'human'?"
My point is that men and women aren't stereotypes. Granted, movies and TV
state otherwise, but people are people. The best female character / male
player I'd seen was played as a regular human being (Ok, she was elven.)
>Oh - I have met nice girls that like to Kill - well atleast be really nasty.
This may explain the female paintball players I'd seen (and the nicknames!
Hellfire, Rambette, Hellcat...).
Come to think of it, the women are usually nastier than the men! Yeesh!
-Tyger
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
"It's not like talking with people. With people, anything can be said and
nothing matters. Words and words and words. You go to a party... people
sit around and say things. Anything. Just to talk. Put forth views and
debate them. Sometimes you get a new idea. Sometimes something changes"
-Luicifer
From "Virtual Realities"
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 00:00:29 -0500
Reply-To: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@*******.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@*******.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: Gender
Pound for pound, I would place my money on a woman being able to beat the
living shit out of a man.
Of course, I'll place more money on a troll...
____ Robert A. Hayden <=> hayden@*******.mankato.msus.edu
\ /__ -=-=-=-=- <=> -=-=-=-=-
\/ / Finger for Geek Code Info <=> Veteran of the Bermuda Triangle
\/ Finger for PGP 2.3a Public Key <=> Expeditionary Force -- 1993-1951
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
(GEEK CODE 1.0.1) GSS d- -p+(---) c++(++++) l++ u++ e+/* m++(*)@ s-/++
n-(---) h+(*) f+ g+ w++ t++ r++ y+(*)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 00:53:56 -0500
Reply-To: Doctor Doom <JCH8169@*****.TAMU.EDU>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: Doctor Doom <JCH8169@*****.TAMU.EDU>
Subject: To Our Honored Dead...
'Tis a sad, sad day for the thesbian community today. Vincent Price, great
in his own aspect, acclaimed Master of the Macabre, a true Dark Lord, is no
more...
I am consumed by the desire to quote:
"Come, my friends,
'Tis not too late to seek a newer world.
Push off and sitting well in order
Smite the surrounding furrows;
For my purpose holds to sail
Beyond the sunset and the baths
Of all the Western Stars until I die."
-- Alfred, Lord Tennyson, "Ulysses"
"And the Raven, never flitting, still is sitting, STILL is sitting
One the pallid bust of Pallas just above my chamber door;
And his eyes have all the seeming of a demon's that is dreaming,
And the lamp-light o'er him streaming throws his shadow on the floor;
And my soul from out that shadow lies floating on the floor
Shall be lifted--nevermore!"
-- Edgar A. Poe, The Raven, Stanza 18
"There are chords in the hearts of the most reckless which can not be touched
without emotion. Even with the utterly lost, to whom life and death are
equally jests, there are matters of which no jest can be made."
-- Edgar A. Poe, The Masque of the Red Death
I, myself, was rather particular to Herr Price's work, and was always delighted
to see him on various television programmes in his later years. He was a
remarkable man, the last of the Three, meaning Price, Lugosi, and Karloff, to
leave us. Now, the the curtain falls upon yet another era...
Colonel Count von Hohenzollern und von Doom, DMSc, DSc, PhD.
Doom Technologies & Weapon Systems -- Dark Thought Publications
>>> Working on solutions best left in the dark.
<<<
[ Doctor Doom : jch8169@********.tamu.edu ]
^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^
"The boundaries which divide Life from Death are at best shadowy and vague.
Who shall say where the one ends, and the other begins?"
-- Edgar A. Poe, The Premature Burial
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 01:51:43 GMT
Reply-To: RJR96326@****.UTULSA.EDU
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: The Deb Decker <RJR96326@****.UTULSA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Question 2: Diceless SR
>The advantages: As with Amber, this allows the GM and players to have
>the ultimate control over their characters and to actually allow the story
>to unfold the way they want it. Almost like interactive storytelling, with
>the GM and the players, working to make it all come out balanced. (Because
>running out of points in the pool means you fail at everything.)
Role-playing games were interactive games long before CDI and other latter-day
gizmos. I don't think the mechanics are nearly as important as the storytelling.
A lot of the players I've met in the past few years considered themselves
role-players but still number-crunched their characters and opposition. As a
GM, I used to make up rules on the spot if I couldn't find an applicable one
within a couple of minutes. I also fudge die rolls, retroactively place
items if I realize they would have logically been elsewhere in the first place,
and other 'cheating'-as long as it's invisible to my players. They all knew I
did this, but they couldn't tell WHEN. I am an expert in driving the GM Fiat.
>The disadvtantages: For the GM determining when the pool refreshes would
>be critical. Great care would have to be taken. Too often and the scene
>is way too easy. Too slowly and the scene is way too hard. Also knowing
>before the test if the test succeeds is may not work with all players.
>So some more thought must go into how to work this, so that these players
>can still have the sense of not knowing. (Can be done by changing Target
>Numbers around and/or not telling them final Target Numbers).
NEVER tell them the target numbers or mods if you can avoid it.
Sounds like the same trouble you have in a dice system: How tough to make
the scenario; what numbers to use.
>The whole thing that motivates the diceless concept is the idea that the
>story is really already told and that all the characters do is live it. For
>SR, a game where Magic flows through everything and effects everything,
>this concept may work.
Ah, fate vs Free Will. . .a subject I will gladly let pass if other do.
J Roberson
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 01:47:59 CST
Reply-To: "The Great Gonzo `8r) (Ben Granzeau P304)"
<P304%NEMOMUS.BITNET@*******.MISSOURI.EDU>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: "The Great Gonzo `8r) (Ben Granzeau P304)"
<P304%NEMOMUS.BITNET@*******.MISSOURI.EDU>
Subject: Gender Benders and successful players...
In-Reply-To: In reply to your message of TUE 26 OCT 1993 05:57:17 CST
> HE? Dumb question, for the list in general: how have "gender benders"
(i.e.
> people playing members of the opposite sex) worked for y'all? I've seen 3+
> done, but have yet to see one done well. (IMHO, guys)
I have a character named Shade who I have played in around 300+
adventures. She has been through more shit than you could believe.
This is the character that her essence increased. I have had to retire
her to NPC playing because she got so powerful. But she was my first
girl that I had played in SR and was just really a tough sam. It worked
out nicely. Anyway, I thought it was fun. Luckly, never any romantic
entaglements...
Here's an idea for you guys to chew on: How about increase of essence w
ith the expendature of 50 karma? I used a different method but do you
think that would work?
the G-man
`8r)
The Not-So-Great-As-Sir-Launcelot Gonzo `8r) Upperclass Twit and geek.
Barney must die!! Slowly and Painfully. ^----Gonzo Smiley
"Full goofy mode : On!!!" -- Me. (Just humor him. He might go away.)
"I was cured, alright."--Alex, _A Clockwork Orange_
"What do you thinks, sirs?"--Joel, Mystery Science Theatre 3000
"No sir, I didn't like it."--Mr. Horse, R&S-Ask for it by name!!
~!@#$%&*()_+`-=;'\:"|,./?~!@#$%&*()_+`-=;'\:"|,./?~!@#$%&*()_+`-=;'\:"|,./?
All complaints to my puppeteer. I don't always agree with myself...
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 01:55:01 CST
Reply-To: "The Great Gonzo `8r) (Ben Granzeau P304)"
<P304%NEMOMUS.BITNET@*******.MISSOURI.EDU>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: "The Great Gonzo `8r) (Ben Granzeau P304)"
<P304%NEMOMUS.BITNET@*******.MISSOURI.EDU>
Subject: Poe: Vincent vs. Bart
Personally, I think Vincent Price was really cool. I liked when he read
"The Raven" on a tape I have but he can never compare to Bart Simpson.
Imagine:
"Quoteth the raven: Nevermore|" -Price
"Quoteth the raven: 'Eat my shorts|'" -Narrator and Bart
It was funny.
The doougghh-Bart| Gonzo
`8r)
The Not-So-Great-As-Sir-Launcelot Gonzo `8r) Upperclass Twit and geek.
Barney must die!! Slowly and Painfully. ^----Gonzo Smiley
"Full goofy mode : On!!!" -- Me. (Just humor him. He might go away.)
"I was cured, alright."--Alex, _A Clockwork Orange_
"What do you thinks, sirs?"--Joel, Mystery Science Theatre 3000
"No sir, I didn't like it."--Mr. Horse, R&S-Ask for it by name!!
~!@#$%&*()_+`-=;'\:"|,./?~!@#$%&*()_+`-=;'\:"|,./?~!@#$%&*()_+`-=;'\:"|,./?
All complaints to my puppeteer. I don't always agree with myself...
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 02:05:00 GMT
Reply-To: RJR96326@****.UTULSA.EDU
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: The Deb Decker <RJR96326@****.UTULSA.EDU>
Subject: I've got Essene. . .Who could ask for anything more?
Gonzo, what is the reasoning behind your character increasing Essence? I'd
like to know, before others point out that
1)It's against the rules
2)There's no precedent for it
3)I wanna know how you justify it outside of points
J Roberson
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 02:26:49 GMT
Reply-To: RJR96326@****.UTULSA.EDU
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: The Deb Decker <RJR96326@****.UTULSA.EDU>
Subject: Guns Guns Guns
>But I did see something interesting. The efficiency of Cased ammo vs.
>caseless ammo can be large. So naturally I tried to even out the scale.
>I found that at about the SR tech level that a projectile of about
>a 9mm size (cased) could have about the same punch as a 11mm (caseless).
>You really had to work with other gun stats, but it could be done.
Interesting Speculation. If I ever see 3G3 in my store (haven't yet) and
have the money (rare these dayd) I'll have to pick it up.
>Disadvantage is obvious. In the SR time, cased ammo would
>be like saying "It was me! I did it! I'm over here!". I guess you could
>also try and make something like a cased 12mm that would do something
>in the neighborhood of 12M. Comments.
One thing: I don't think the same gun can fire both cased and caseless.
Would't it suck if you found a crate full of 9mmP cased and all of your
pistols and SMGs were slotted for casless?
> 2) Caseless ammo is used because it gets rid of the weight inherent
>in the shells case. This can decrease the weight by as much as a factor of
>2 for large shells. This is why it is used today.
Yet, as I believe Chris Yang pointed out, they're also more reliable since
there's no ejection port for things like mud, dirt, and pez to enter and
gum up the machinery.
J Roberson
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 02:49:59 GMT
Reply-To: RJR96326@****.UTULSA.EDU
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: The Deb Decker <RJR96326@****.UTULSA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Second Nature
I didn't realize this came private till Legion asked me to forward it. I've
thoughtfully added some more comments at the end.
>How nukes operate: you die.
>(just kidding. I consider myself pretty well informed on how nukes work, the
>difference between Atomic and Hydrogen bombs, etc).
>
>Tricky question there, who survives nukes better. What about optical computers,
>which Are a pretty standard feature of most cyberpunk worlds (IMHO). In GURPS
>vehicles an Optical computer is not affected by EMPs. (It'll still roast in
>the firestorm, though).
>
>J Roberson
On the optical; I haven't played GURPS any, but I doubt the computers are
100% optical. I think they'd have to have some electronics controlling the
mechanics (micro, mini, real fucking small). But, they would surely have
some very good EMP shielding to protect the internal components.
The M1 series tanks have some EMP shielding (don't ask for specifics, me
not know). I heard they tested a 1 megaton relative EMP on a tank with
some electronics inside; radios, and some other stuff. Heard it worked
partially. Radios didn't work, but a Timex did. Go figure.
Legion
Imagine a round of lead in the chest... quite an impression
***************
What mechanics are we talking about? I see the computers of the future being
very non-mechanical. Instead of drives, things are on card (like a TurboGrafx)
that plugs right into the computer. A disk drive is the computer part I can
think of that is neccesary and requires mechanic parts. But your point is
valid: it doesn't matter if the computer works if the gun it controls is so
much slag. Kinda like the official Pentagon coffee maker, which can make
coffee after a loss of cabin pressure, a nuclear device in the distance,
extreme hot or cold, crashing on either the land or the sea. . .the damn thing
continues to churn out java long after anyone coffee-drinkers in the immediate
vicinity have died. . .
J Roberson
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 03:24:05 GMT
Reply-To: RJR96326@****.UTULSA.EDU
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: The Deb Decker <RJR96326@****.UTULSA.EDU>
Subject: Errata
here is ONE of my errata files. I'm short on time and figured you guys
would rather have this one rather than wait unknown eons until I can get the
rest saved as text and uploaded.
This one combines about 4 or 5 posts made over te summer. I went through and
re-arranged things by category on this one (one reason I put things off so
long--I want to organize hte others similarly).
I present you with: Errata (sounds kinda sexy, don't it? :)
J Roberson
**********
Questions And Answers with the Dark Lord
A round of Questions and Answers with your host: Doc X
Today our guest is the developmental director of FASA's role-playing game
Shadowrun. None other than Tom Dowd.
[CANNED APPLAUSE]
MATRIX
What is the load rating of Black IC?
1.5 x Rating.
Where are the graphics subroutines located in the Matrix?
He waited a second and said something to the effect that I knew too
much about computers for his own good. "It is fantasy." The Matrix is
not meant to be taken literaly and is not based on reality. It is
cinematic and should be taken as such.
If you can see a node in the Matrix why do you need the LTG#?
Well you don't really, if you want to get their public datanet, but if
you want that top secret R&D node you need the number. The node may run
off of the same icon but You need to walk through a different door which
you get through with (you guessed it) the LTG#.
Can frames perform system operations?
Not yet.
Tom said that they were working on a Grimoire style book on the Matrix.
"Kind
of like a Virtual Realities II?", I ask. "Yeah, sort of", he
replies. Only a few
deckers currently can make such a frame but when the knowledge gets out
(when
the book is released) then PC's will be able to do it. The main problem,
he said was mechanics. Making a system that would not make the decker obselete.
Will there be rules for Running Naked in the forthcoming VR II?
[GIVES A 'DON'T BE SILLY' KIND OF LOOK] I DON'T LIKE THE IDEA OF
RUNNING NAKED AND THERE WILL BE NO SUCH RULES IN ANY FUTURE
PRODUCTS
We've had quite a heated discussion on using two cyberdecks in series
to run the Matrix. Your thoughts?
[GIVES THE SAME LOOK AGAIN] NO. CYBERDECKS DON'T WORK THAT
WAY.
Program Enablers?
THEY DON'T EXIST
MAGIC
Can an Elemental Adept summon a watcher?
No.
If someone enters the Area of Effect for a sustained spell (i.e. Chaotic
World) do they become subject to the effects?
No unless the spell is a Physical Manipulation spell with a physical
effect. Mana spells have their circuit fixed when the spell is first cast.
Do physical adepts make a magic roll when they take a deadly wound?
Yes.
"That is the price they pay for having magic."
If spell locks may be turned off, does this allow them to go through
wards and barriers with no problem?
YES
When assensing, what exactly is the +2 target number applied to?
IT IS APPLIED TO ALL TARGET NUMBERS REGARDLESS......WAIT....I AM
CHANNELING THE SPIRIT OF PAUL HUME....[YOU ONLY GET THE +2 FOR
PHYSICAL ACTIONS. ANY ACTIONS WHICH ARE MYSTICAL IN NATURE,
SUCH AS SPELLCASTING AND ASTRALLY PERCIEVING DO NOT GET THE
PENALTY].....THERE YOU HAVE IT. HE WROTE THE GRIMOIRE. THAT IS THE
OFFICIAL RULING AND I HAVE TO AGREE THAT IT IS LOGICAL
THE WORLD
What is in space/near orbit? Do you plan to develop it?
THAT IS IN LONG TERM DEVELOPMENT
How widespread is cyber in the SR world?
IT IS LIMITED AND HIGHLY DEPENDENT ON ONE'S VOCATION
How is cyberware powered?
WHO CARES. IT WORKS. DON'T WORRY ABOUT THE DETAILS
COMBAT
5) If you succeccfully stun a mage with the taser from NAGRL, can the mage
still cast a spell?
NO
RIGGING
6) In vehicle combat, if you get 3 successes, can you attack 3 times and
move once Or attack once and move once?
NOT REALLY. THEY ARE TWO DIFFERENT TESTS AND THE DICE RESULTS
ARE APPLIED DIFFERENTLY TO GET THE INDIVIDUAL RESULTS. FOR A
FURTHER CLARIFICATION LOOK AT THE RULES CINCERNING VEHICLE
COMBAT IN SRII NEAR THE END OF THE SECTION
7) With a good rigger that has a massive control pool that gets 7
successes on his test, does he attack 7 times?
HE ATTACKS AS MANY TIMES AS HE HAS ACTIONS. WHEN, IN THE BOOKS
IT SAYS ATTACKS IT IS IMPLIED THAT IT MEANS ACTIONS
8) In the RBB, one of the accessories (the one with that replaces the
steering wheel with a trackball) increases your reaction. Does this work
for riggers also? Doce this also increase their Control Pool?
NO AND NO
9) In the RBB there a couple of accessories that increase the reaction of
the user of the vehicle. Does this add to their control pool?
IN REFERENCE TO THIS AND ANY OTHERE DISCREPENCIES BETWEEN THE
SRII AND RBB GO WITH THE RULES IN THE SRII. THEY ARE TWEAKED AND
ADJUSTED AND TAKE PRECEDENCE
Thank you for your time. Anything you'd like to add?
CORPORATE SECURITY HANDBOOK IN THREE WEEKS
And thank you the viewer for tuning in. Now back to your regularly
scheduled program.....
************************************************************* ***************
* Witty Remark * Dylan Northrup <norhtup@*****.cas.usf.edu> * This space *
* Here * (Yeah I know they spelled my name wrong) * for rent *
************************************************************* ***************
"No on can tell us we're wrong/searching our hearts for so long"
-- Pat Benatar 'Love is a Battlefield'
*************************************************************
Okay. As promised, I talked with Tom (Dowd, to those of you who don't know)
today. He was kinda in a hurry, so I didn't get to ask him everything. Here's
most of it, however...
Oz sourcebook: YES! It's currently being written. No details.
African sourcebook: yes, they are looking at one, but long term only (i.e.2-3
years)
Aztlan sourcebook: being worked on. Not till early '95, however. According to
Tom, it has enough to fill a whole book by itself, so a South/Central
/Latin America sourcebook will be done separately.
LA SOURCEBOOK! "I'm not dead!" according to Tom, they put it away for a while
so that it didn't look like it was cashing in on the riots. He said it will be
released, and that the new book will "dovetail" San Fran, parts of California,
and Los Angeles.
Shadowrun Game: he said the NES game has SOLD OUT! They are working on one for the Sega
Genesis, which WILL BE DIFFERENT! I.e. different storyline.
He sounded really excited about the games.
Shadowrun MOVIE! When I told him that you guys were working on a movie
"loosely based on Shadowrun", He (note the capitalization:) LAUGHED!
He told me that they held all the rights. He also said that a movie
was "being negotiated." He couldn't/wouldn't give me any ideas as to
time frame, just that it was in negotiation. Hmmm....
FORTHCOMING PRODUCTS: (this is in order as to when it's due out)
Sprawl Maps: a series of color maps for use with DMZ or miniatures
Corporate Sourcebook: a book on the economic theory of corporations.
it will have a listing of the top 8 corps,
a listing of the interests that all the different corps have
(i.e. how they can influence each other)
and "loose" rules for creating a corp.
Tir Nan Og: Irish sourcebook
Celtic Double-cross: module, set in ireland. Will come out at the
same time as Tir Nan Og.
Germany Sourcebook: December. He said that they had enough to say, so
it is its own entire sourcebook.
Then an adventure (no hints as to what it is)
Mercernary Guidebook: "not a hell of a lot of gear in this" book. I
think it may be more along the lines of how mercenaries act, their
lives, etc. Not cyberware and the like (but I wouldn't put it out of
the question)
In planning: (if not writing)
Lone Star sourcebook
Denver
Shaman Sourcebook
NPC book (book of NPCs to use)
Also, I told him that a couple of the list members followed his directions. He
thought that was pretty funny, and confirmed that he knew what he was talking
about. I said "they wound up at a base or academy". His reply "right, the
Air
Force academy". He thought it was great that you guys actually did it!
AND NOW FOR THE QUESTIONS:
Minotaur sent me a HUGE list, and I'm glad he did! (thanx! BTW: what's the 800
number you had? Send it to me privately, please)
Here's the questions we covered
MAGIC
Can a person who has a Quickening walk through any Ward without any
problems? <YES> <NO>
How about an active spell lock? <YES> <NO>
NO! The spells go into conflict. According to my GM, this changes a LOT of
things. I assume the spell lock question was the same as the quickening ques.
Either way, they fight.
Do you folks allow mages who have lost cyberware to install cyberware
upto that 'lost' point for 'free' or does it cost them another magic
point? <FREE> <COST MORE MAGIC>
I didn't ask, but check Shadowtech. You have a "hole" that you can put more
cyber into.
Is anyone else bothered by the fact that the Availibility Rating
for Foci is a constant? Somehow I imagine that the availibility
for these magic devices should be dependent upon their rating.
Should it be changed? <YES> <NO>
"Sure! If you want to, feel free to modify it! Go for it!"
Do you folks believe you could design a sustained Combat Spell? <YES> <NO>
NO!
Could you develop a spell to basically negate the hypersense spells
under the Detection Catagory? <YES> <NO>
Yes, it IS possible. The category? "the same as the hypersense spell itself".
Does an illusion that is seen through disappear or can it still
be a visual impairment. <DISAPPEARS> <REMAINS>
He almost said "this ain't D&D". It remains, but is an obstruction.
If not can an illusion protect a person(s) from a combat spell?
(An illusion of a solid black wall that disables the 'line of sight'
requirement- even though the mage knows the image to be false, it
may still block their vision). <Y> <N>
"if the mage believes the image to be real, then he cannot target through it.
If, however, he knows that the image is false, then he can" nail the mage
through it. If he knows the "black wall" is false, the mage on the other side
is toast. (however, if you are casting a spell, cast a physical area-of-effect
spell, centered on the wall.--my personal opinion-Rev)
How do you folks resolve mages who have increased reactions spells
locked who subsequently de-activate them *after* initiative is rolled?
At this point he took in a deep breath, and sighed. He said that it's not
supposed to happen, but gave me a rough idea of how to do it. One of the
initiative dice should be a different color, to give you your unaugmented
initiative". He also noted that you could not move sooner than 10 combat
phases. I'm not quite sure what he meant. Future callers can ask him that.
CYBERWARE
Can 2 people with datajacks "link" to create a techno-telepathy? <Y>
<N>
No. The transmission rate is too fast. It IS possible with a deck, though
(hitcher jacks)
AI's free in the matrix? (do they exist, etc)
They don't, you can bet the corps are keeping them in tightly.
When are cyberpsychosis rules due?
He said that it will probably be a year or so, that he is writing the
sourcebook. (apparently more than just CP rules, but no details). He said
he'd have to write a novel about it before he wrote the sourcebook. He said
that if you have a negative essense, "life sucks". He also doesn't want to
turn it into Cyberpunk, where CP is an excuse. "I don't want it to be like
cyberpunk, where someone goes 'I'll shotgun the crowd. I can do it since I'm
cyberpsycho'". He wants to do it well, and he's still working out how to do
that.
Since Bonelacing affect Unarmed attacks, and Cyberspurs qualify as Unarmed,
would you then deduce that Bonelacing affects Spurs? <YES> <NO>
No. I asked "but wouldn't it let you hit harder?" Tom said that it absorbs
damage, so it won't.
GENERAL
How long (time) do you folks charge your player to raise a skill?
According to Tom, it doesn't matter. It only gets in the way. Don't worry
about it.
Are Were-beasts outlawed by man (ie the same way there is a bounty out
for vampires?) <YES> <NO>
No. They are much rarer.
Targeting people with a car:
You do it optically. A person doesn't give off nearly the heat, etc that a
vehicle does. He said the sig would easily be a 10-12. Also, he says that the
vehicle-mounted weapons DO have smartgun links (it's assumed, when they are put
into the vehicle), but that it doesn't give you any benefits (rats!).
That's it for now. Certain parts of this DO matter, so you may want to ask
your GM. Most notably, the wards and the spells. This conceivably could
change security. If anyone wants a clarification, I'll get one from my GM,
and post here. If anyone HERE knows, please post it. I don't want to have to
type anymore. BCNU,
Reverend
-----------------------------SHADOWRUN II ERRATA-----------------------------
This errata list is taken directly from the Summer 2054 issue of KA-GE.
"Hey, better this than a third edition..."
--The Folks at FASA
Here are the current known errata for Shadowrun, Second Edition, including
the hard and softcover printings. HC indicates errata to the hardcover
edition only, and SC refers to changes to the softcover edition only.
p. 32 AUTOMATIC SUCCESS AND FAILURE [HC]
Ignore the notation about the Rule of Six giving an automatic success.
That statement is wrong.
p. 32 THE RULE OF SIX [HC]
Add the rule of six does not apply to Initiative (see p. 79).
p. 50 THE COMBAT MAGE
The Combat Mage's Body should be 2 (3), and his Dice Pools should read:
Combat: 7 (9) and Magic 6 (8). Also his heal Moderate Wounds: 3 spell
should simply be Heal: 3.
p. 51 THE DECKER
The Decker's Reaction should read 5 (7)* and her initiative should read
5 (7) + 1D6 (2D6)*. The asterisk still refers to Matrix-only initiative.
Also, her Cyberdeck should have Response Increase 1.
p. 54 THE ELVEN DECKER
The Elven Decker's changes are the same as the Decker, p. 51
p. 56 THE FORMER WAGE MAGE
The Heal Severe Wounds: 3 spell under the Fighter profile should read
simply Heal: 3.
p. 57 THE GANG MEMBER
The Gang Member has a Projectile Weapons skill of 3.
p. 59 THE RIGGER
The Rigger's Essence should read 1.35.
p. 60 THE SHAMAN
The Shaman's Magic Attribute should read simply 6. The Shaman's
Reaction is listed as "Reaction Time." It should read "Reaction."
p. 62 THE STREET SAMURAI
The Street Samurai's Quickness should read 4 (5), his Strength 6 (7),
his Essence .1, his Combat Pool 7, and he should have only one level of
Muscle Replacement.
p. 68 THE SKILL WEB
In the third paragraph, delete the last sentence referring to including
the starting and ending circle count.
p. 69 THE SKILL WEB [HC/GM Screen]
Add a dot (o) between the Firearms, Gunnery, Projectile, and Throwing
skills and their respective (B/R) skills. Those four should resemble
Armed Combat, like so:
-----Skill Name--o--(B/R)
Also, shift the dot associated with Conjuring in toward the skill, so
that the web-section looks like this:
o-----Magical Theory-----
|
|--o--Conjuring
|
o-----Sorcery
p. 79 INITIATIVE TIES
In the first sentence, change the term "Combat Phase" to "Combat
Turn."
p. 80 DELAYING ACTIONS
In the second column, third Paragraph, the third sentence should finish
out "...the delay is broken and the Action does not occur.".
p. 89 RANGED COMBAT MODIFIERS TABLE [HC/GM Screen]
Change the "Recoil, Heavy Weapon" modifier to "+2 per cumulative round
fired that Combat Phase."
p. 89 RECOIL [HC]
In the first paragraph, replace the second half of the paragraph
starting with "Full-autofire..." with the following "Full-autofire
weapons
take a cumulative +1 modifier for each round fired that Combat Phase. That
is, a character choosing to fire a seven-round full-autofire burst
receives a +7 modifier. If that same character chooses instead to fire two
full-autofire bursts, he would have a +5 modifier for the first burst,
and a +10 modifier for the second burst."
The final paragraph (top of the second column) should read "Double the
uncompensated recoil modifier for medium and heavy machine guns (heavy
weapons and shotguns. If a medium machine gun is firing 10 rounds, and
has six points of recoil compensation, its final recoil modifier would be
+8 (10-6=4; 4 doubled is 8)."
p. 92 FULL-AUTO MODE [HC]
Replace the sentence beginning "Each round fire..." with the following:
Each round fired imposes a +1 recoil modifier for the entire group."
Also replace the last sentence on the page (it overruns to p. 93) with:
"The Power Rating of the weapon increases by 1 point for every round fired
in that full-auto burst."
p. 93 FULL-AUTO MODE [HC]
The example has some errors. Replace the fifth to seventh paragraphs
with the following: "The first punk gets a three-round burst, which
increases the Damage Code of the weapon to 10D. The three-round burst
qualifies for 3 points of recoil, which the weapon compensates for. Punk
1: Damage Code 10D, Target Number 3.
"Punk 2 gets a three-round burst too, with that same healthy Damage
Code of 10D. Now, however, six rounds have been fired so the total recoil
modifier is 6. The weapon compensates for 3, leaving 3 for a +3 modifier.
This is the second target this Combat Phase, which adds another +2
modifier. Punk 2: Damage Code 10D, Target Number 8.
"Punk 3 gets the four-round burst (lucky her) that has a Damage Code of
11D. The recoil modifier is now +7 (10-3). Being the third target also
means a +4 modifier added to the attack because of multiple targets. Punk
3: Damage Code 11D, Target Number 14.
p. 96 STRENGTH MINIMUM RATING [HC]
Change the final sentence of the section to read: "A crossbow's Minimum
Strength Rating is used to determine its range."
p. 98 GRENADE BLAST DIAGRAM [HC]
The "5S" notation in the right-hand diagram should read "4S," and
the
total blast consequently "20S."
p. 98 BARRIERS (GENERAL) [HC]
Add to the end of the page: "Always use the base Power Rating of the
round, unmodified for burst or full-auto fire, for comparison against the
Barrier Rating."
p. 102 FRIENDS IN THE MELEE [HC]
The "see page" reference for Multiple Opponents should read "this
page"
instead of p. 90.
p. 108 VEHICLES, WEAPONS, AND MAGIC [HC]
Third paragraph, change the second sentence to: "That is, if the base
Power of the weapon, unmodified by burst or full-auto fire, does not
exceed the rating of the vehicle armor, it will not penetrate."
Due to the printing error, the first line of the fourth paragraph in
the softback edition only should read "The Power and Damage Codes for
grenades and other explosives are affected...."
p. 130 SPELL TARGETING
The fifth sentence should end with "...Except by using enhanced vision
or astral perception, as appropriate."
p. 131 SPELL SUCCESS TEST [HC]
[HC] The final paragraph of the example should read: "Rolling the dice,
Jason gets a total of 10 dice (4+6) against a Target Number of 6 (5+1).
The results are 1, 3, 4, 5, 5, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6. Five of the dice score six,
so there are five successes."
P. 137 FOCUS BONDING TABLE
The second type of focus should be listed as a "Spell Category Focus."
p. 144 SPIRIT TABLE [HC]
[HC] Under Nature Spirits it should be the "Hearth" spirit, not
"Heath"
spirit. There are no candy spirits in Shadowrun.
p. 151 SPELL DIRECTORY
[HC] Change the "Type" of the spells Mana Bolt, Mana Missile, and
Manaball to "Mana," rather than "Physical" as listed.
[HC/SC] Under the Ram spell, delete the line "The target's Barrier
Rating is halved as indicated."
p. 153 MIND PROBE [HC]
Change the Drain Code to [(F+2) +2]D.
p. 155 TREAT [HC]
Change the first sentence of the third paragraph to "Successes from the
Spell Success Test can be used to actually heal boxes of damage, or reduce
the base time, as found on the following chart." Also [HC/SC], in the
second paragraph, change the first sentence to read "The Target Number for
these spells is 10 or 8, minus the target's Essence."
p. 158 SPARK [HC]
Change the Duration of the spell to "Instant."
p. 159 TABLE OF SPELLS [HC]
Change the Type of Mana Missile to "M", the Drain Code of Mind Probe to
[(F/2) +2]D, and the Duration of Spark to "Instant."
P. 168 PASSIVE ALERT [HC]
The second sentence should read "Add 50% to the ratings of all IC."
p. 168 THE OPPOSITION [HC]
Use the Decker Archetype instead of the Corporate Decker as noted,
unless the SRII Gamemaster Screen is owned, then use the Coporate Decker.
p. 202 LEGWORK
In the second column, second sentence, add the following at the end of
the sentence "(see published Shadowrun adventures.)."
p. 205 CORPORATE SECURITY GUARD [HC]
Give the Contact a Willpower of 2.
p. 207 THE FIXER [HC]
Add the skill "Equipment Acquisition: 4" skill.
p. 211 THE STREET COP [HC]
Give the Contact a Willpower of 3.
P. 228-229 Nature Spirits
Delete the word "Attack" from the descriptions of desert and field
spirits. Add the Guard power to desert, forest, and lake spirits. Also add
the Engulf power to lake, river, sea, and swamp spirits.
p. 262 CYBERDECK SYSTEMS ADDITIONS
Change the cost of Hitcher Jacks to "MPCP x 100=Y=," Response Increase
Level 1 to "(MPCP x MPCP) x 100=Y=," Level 2 to "(MPCP x MPCP) x
400=Y=,"
and Level 3 to "(MPCP x MPCP) x 900=Y=."
p. 265 RIGGER GEAR
Change the cost of Vehicle Control Gear to a flat 2,800=Y=.
p. 280 SOURCEBOOK UPDATES/STREET SAMURAI TABLE
Add the Riot Shield, Large to the table with "---" Concealability,
"2"
Ballistic, "---" Impact, "3" Weight, "10/14 days"
Availability, "3,200=Y="
Cost, and "2" Street Index.
p. 283 SOURCEBOOK UPDATES/MINIMUM SECURITY CODE
The last sentence should end with "...with a Security Rating of less
than Green-3."
p. 283 SOURCEBOOK UPDATES/RIGGER BLACK BOOK
In the entry for Vehicle Armor Ratings, add this sentence "Also, divide
the armor point costs by 3, and multiply the maximum allowed by 3."
Under Rigger Control Gear, change the sentence to read "Remote and
Vehicle Control Gear is required for Rigger operation." Also change the
Parts Cost for Rigger (Vehicle) Control Gear to 2,800=Y=.
In the second column, change the sentence to read "The Vehicle Control
Rig prices in SRII supersede those given in the Rigger Black Book where
it is called Rigger Control Gear."
p. 283 UPDATING ADVENTURES
The third sentence should refer to Threat Ratings, not Dodge Pools.
------------------------------GRIMOIRE II ERRATA------------------------------
"If everything was perfect,
it would be a boring world"
--The Folks at FASA
The following is the known errata for the Grimoire, Second Edition.
p. 92 WARDS
Replace the third paragraph of this section with the following:
"Warding requires the magician to make a Sorcery Test against the
desired Force Rating of the ward. The astral rating of the ward is equal
to that Force Rating and it remains active for a number of days equal to
the number of successes. The magician may choose not to use all his
successes, making it easier to resist Drain for setting wards."
MAGICAL SUPPLIES
Availability Cost
SI
Fetish Focus 3/6 hrs Rating x 3,000 1
Ally Conjuring Materials (Force)/36 hrs 1,000 per unit 1
Ward Casting Materials (Force)/36 hrs 1,000 per unit 1
Watcher Casting Materials (Force)/36 hrs 1,000 per unit 1
ENCHANTING MATERIALS COSTS
Material Raw Form Refined Form Radical Form
Herbals 50 100 200
Crystals 100 200 400
Semi-Precious Gems 200 400 800
Precious Gems 500 1,000 2,000
Iron 50 100 200
Copper 100 200 400
Silver 300 600 1,200
Gold 10,000 20,000 40,000
Mercury 600 1,200 2,400
Tin 30 60 120
Lead 30 60 120
!!Orichalcum: 88,000 per unit
SPELL FORMULAS
Drain Level Price Drain Level Price
!L 50 x Force !M 100 x Force
!S 500 x Force !D 1,000 x Force
--Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> Northeastern's Stainless Steel Rat
PGP Public Key Block available upon request Ask about rat-pgp.el
||||| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |||||
Meddle not in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your
cyberdeck. --Jeff Wilder (wilder@****.mik.uky.edu)
**************************************************************************
Last night I spoke with the well known Dr. Doom, who informed me that he had
precipitated conversation and well articulated discourse with the Dark Lord
(i.e. spoke with him). He spoke at some length with Tom about Vision
Magnifiers and Smartguns.
!1) They are either ON or OFF. A mag-3 either is off, or provides you with the
full magnification.
!2) Yes, (yet again!), you CAN use Mags and Smartgun links, at least if both of
them are in the cybereye.
!3) HOWEVER... if the mag causes the range modifier to fall off the chart, then
you will take a +2!
Example: I have a Mag-3, and am aiming at something at
extreme range. Extreme=>Long=>Medium=>Short, no problems.
Example 2: I am now aiming at something at Medium Range. Medium=>Short=>off
chart, and I now take a +2.
!4) This CAN be gotten around, however... you can buy a Mag that will go in
between, at a cost of +50%.
-----Good hunting!-----Rev-----The Reverend
**************************************************************************
Okay Boys and Girls, 'Runners of all ages!!!!!! Here is the last in the
installments of "What I learned from Tom from some expensive long-distance
phone call" Q and A sessions. From now on I have a cheap and easy way to
get in touch with the Dark Lord on High (NO MORE LONG-DISTANCE!!!). I will
continue to accept submissions for the inevitable next installment
of "I have a question with your guest Tom Dowd".
So here are the questions and answers as asked by me and answered by Tom.
There will be an addendum because I was not able to ask all of the
questions that I had at the time.
MAGIC
> In GrimII there is two MANA spells with elemental effects: Manablast &
> Stunblast! Is this a major GrimII bug or do I miss something?
These spells are wrong. Reverse engineer them without the elemental
effects to get the drain for the new spells.
> For PhysAds, exactly how many sense improvements do you have to take to get,
> oh, Vision Magnification 3?
3 Levels.
> I believe the Transformation spells (Critter) Form,
> Shapechange & Transform should have a target number of Body(R), Body &
> Body(R), respectively. After all, they ARE physical spells. Besides, I think
> it seems more logical.
The Willpower roll shows the persons acceptance of the spell. Body rolls
are for damage to the body. Transformation spells do not damage the body,
but merely change it.
[Stuff about vision Magnifications having the same effects for all
weapons, ala staging the ranges down]
TECH
> Sorry doesnt make sense, unless you have to specify the weapon type you
> want to
> use the Magnification for.... afterall the ranges for a light pistol is
> considerable different than those of a sporting rifle, yet according to the
> text, they work fine for each... yet a level III somehow compensates for
> the different ranges of a weapon, BUT NOT for different ranges period...
The Vision Magnifications work the way they do and are defined that way
because it was the easiest and simplest way that they had thought of at
the time. It may not be realistic but if you want to make up house rules,
go ahead. If you want to deal with the complications, it's your game.
WORLD
> What will DOC WAGON do with one client, when this person
> is full of illegal cyberware(no permits), as Wired Ref. ,Smartlink,
> Cyberweapons.....
> Will they call the cops or not.
> And when they call the cops who will then use DOC WAGON service.
This sort of thing falls under the heading of Doctor/Patient privelage.
DW will not notify the authorities.
> What is the place of the Church in the modern world of 2054?
Very minor. They have areas that they control but their sphere of
influence is limited.
RULES
> How LONG can someone be surprised according to SR II ?
Until the next action.
> Q7. When firing weapons mounted on drones can you use the optical
> targeting option, and if so at what range (I would imagine a drone would
> have some sort of visual magnification system[s] )?
You may use optical targeting with drones.
> 1) Two weapons:
> What are the effects, additional attacks, do you get to roll
> two separate attacks, or is it one attack modified somehow. Etc.
> Details, Etc.
"Good question." There are no definite rules for using two weapons in
melee. This falls under the heading of, If You Want A House Rule Make One.
For two weapons in ranged combat, the following effects occur:
You get 2 seperate attacks. There is a TN of +2 for each attack. Recoil
modifiers for each attack apply to both. Any smartlink modifiers or laser
sight modifiers are not taken into account.
CYBERLIMBS
> Q1. Is the starting strength rating of a cyberlimb equal to (1)The
> character's current strength attribute, (2)The racial average of whatever
> race the character is or, (3)The human racial average of 3?
(1) The character's starting strength.
> Q2. Do trolls have to pay extra for cyberlimbs with a +1 reach?
No. Happy Birthday.
> Q3. If a character with a cyberlimb increases his strength attribute with
> karma does the cyberlimb's strength also increase, does it decrease when
> that strength decreasing drug from Shadowtech is used against the character?
If you pay the karma, you get the increase. The drug does decrease
yourstrength. The overriding reason for both answers is that you are not
only dealing with the limb but all of the supporting physiological
processes. When they are increased, you can get more leverage and hence
more strength. When they are decreased, you get less leverage and hence
less strength.
> Q4. Do you have to get a whole new cyberlimb if you want to increase it's
> strength or do you just get a street doc to modify the one you already have?
No, you spend the karma and it happens.
> Q5. Is it possible to get accessories like smartlink or gas vent systems for
> cyberguns?
Yes. They are normal guns. The only difference is they have more
electronics.
> Q6. Is it possible to use spells that change the physical dimensions of a
> being on beings with cyberwear?
You may shapechange beings with cyberware.
OTHER
> Q8. Someone has recently told me that FASA has sold some kind of rights for
> Shadowrun to Disney please verify or deny if you are in the position to do
> so. What the hell would Disney want to do with Shadowrun?
Well, the story goes like this. Tim Diseny has bought a significant
portion of FASA's sister company: Virtual Worlds Entertainment. They are
not FASA and he is not Disney Inc.
List of Fucked Splls and the women who love them
Manipulation Spells
> 1) All control manipulations in both Shadowrun II and Grimoire II have a
> target of Willpower [Resisted]. Is this a rule that was not written in the
> Grimoire or is this using the Mana Spells are resisted by Willpower rule?
(Unwritten rule) >>>(Mana Spell Rule)<<< (target number should
be 4/6)
> 2) Several manipulation spells in the Grimoire have a target number of
> Object Resistance Table (Spells are Animate, Lock, and Seal). Shouldn't the
> target number for these spells be 4?
>>>(They are Correct)<<< (Target number should be 4)
> 3) The bind spell has target of Quickness [Resisted]. Is that correct or
> should the target number be 4?
>>>(It is correct)<<< (Target number should be 4)
> 4) (Critter) Form, Shapechange and Transform all have a target of
> Willpower. As shouldn't the target be either 4 as manipulation spells, or
> Body as Physical Spells?
>>>(Willpower is correct)<<< (target is 4) (target is Body)
> 5) Under the manipulation spell creation rules it says that "the target
> of a manipulation spell that forces a change in shape, form, or behavior must
> resist the spell." Does this mean that the voluntary subjects of (Critter)
> Form and Shapechange have to resist the spell? If so what characteristic
> do they use to resist?
>>>(No)<<< (Yes) (Willpower) (Body)
"That line should read 'the unwilling target of a manipulation spell...'"
Combat Spells
> 1) Is FASA aware that the Manablast and Stunblast spells presented in the
> Grimoire are illegal? They both are mana spells with elemental effects.
Now they do. See the previous answer on this topic.
> 2) Why are the Manaball spell from SRII and the Mana Cloud spell in the
> Grimiore exactly the same?
They are meant to show that two spells can have the same game affects
but have different explanations in 'reality' They do the same thing but
they do it in different ways.
> 3) Shouldn't the Drain for Hellblast be [(F/2)+5]D not [(F/2)+6]D?
Yes, it should be [(F/2)+5]D.
Health Spells
> 1) Shouldn't the Decrease Reaction spells be one Drain Level higher than
> the other Decrease Reaction spells, just like the Increase Reaction spells?
Yes.
> 2) Why is there no Increase Reaction +4 spell, but there is a Decrease
> Reaction -4 spell and a Increase Cybered Reaction +4 spell.
Technically there should be
>Okay, the question I have is, with the two riot shields, they provide some
>balistic cover... thats just fine, but traditionally shields ahve been used for
>mainly melee purposes, and well, that feature has been removed all together.
>so I am looking for some advice/input on how to adjust the mechanics of Melee
>to account for shields... any ideas?
For the small shield, give it a 2 Impact rating. For the Large shield,
give it a 4 Impact rating.
> I have a problem with the killing hands skill. The rulebook says that spirit
> have invulnerabillity against normal weapons. That means they have an
> armour-class equal to twice their force. It is also mentioned that this
doesn't count
> against killing hands. Does that mean, they have NO armour against a
> physical adept using killing hands?!
Yes it does.
> Do PhysAds use Willpower or Sorcery skill instead of Unarmed Combat?
They use whichever is higher.
> Question for all you magic types out there: If a mage is projecting
> and another mage casts sleep or stun on his physical body, what happens?
> Does his astral form get sucked back to his body? what if the body has
> been moved since he went astral? The second question is about foci. If
> the astral part of the foci goes with the mage when projecting, can it be
> dropped or taken away?
Nothing happens. They mages physical body lays there in astral space
unconscious. As for the foci, no it cannot be stolen.
> 1. Are quickened/spelllocked spells active in astral space
> For example: Intelligence +4, Charisma +4, Willpower +4...
> ( Spells that could really beef up a projecting mage )
Yes they are active. Can you say "Yippe!"? I knew you could!
> 2. Are quickened/Spellocked spells active when shapechanged, and if so
> how is initiative resolved? (Several Critters have extra initiative dice)
> For example: shapechanging into a tiger and having increase
> reflexes +3d6 quickened.
Quickened spells affecting the Mental abilities are still in effect.
Physical spells are not. You figure iniative using the new ratings.
> 1.What skills (Active, Language, Knowledge, B/R) can the encephalon's
> task pool be used for?
Any knowledge or B/R skill.
> 2.Are gas vents and silencers mutually exclusive (Since gas vents can
> never be removed, can you ever use a gun with them and not make a lot of
> noise)?
Yes, they are. (That's what it means.)
> 3. Ask him whether or not you can ground through Quickenings, and get a
> damn good rationalization that works within the magic theory.
You can ground through ANY spell that has an effect on the real world, be
it mana or physical.
> 4. Tell him to ask Paul Hume about all this "how do Combat AoE spells
> ground though" stuff.
They ground through the hole in astral space created by the spell or
dual-natured being, or whatever. They then work on all the beings in the
area that the mage could see from his position in real space. If the
casting mage is projecting, you figure LOS from the place in real space
corresponding to the place in Astral where he is.
> 5. Ask him what the proper damage code for the Ares Viper Slivergun is
> supposed to be.
As listed. 9S. Ouch.
> 6. Ask him if it's okay that I change one of his rules now and again :)
Absoulutely not. There is a secret division of FASA that deals with this
problem exclusively. This division is where they originally got the idea
for Bioware. :)
> 7. Ask him what the ShadowTech Adrenal Pump is compatible with, in terms of
> magic and cyberware.
Everything. So get those Boosted Reflexes and that Increased Cyber +4
locked on you today and do your imitation of the Flash today!!
> 8. Ask him why Boosted Reflexes aren't bioware.
Beacuse the rules for Bioiware had not been developed at the time. For a
real explanation, because they chemical treatments used on your nerves are
so toxic that they destroy your essence.
That is the end of this install ment of "Tom Talks". Look for session #2
soon on a terminal near you.
Doc X
****************************************************************************
* Witty Remark * Dylan Northrup <norhtup@*****.cas.usf.edu> * This space *
* Here * (Yeah I know they spelled my name wrong) * for rent *
****************************************************************************
"You can feel it/Rhythm is a dancer" --Snap 'Rhythm is a Dancer'
****************************************************************************
Contacts
As we all know, CONTACTS can make or break a character sometimes, and
INFORMATION is power, just like magic...
Anyway, my question/observation is this...
I have been looking for "official" places to ask questions and stuff about
shadowrun, and this is what i've found so far...if anyone has any others
please let me know...
fasatom@***.com tom dowd
73020.752@**********.com paul hume (has written/contributed to many
SR sourcebooks...i saw that he
was replying to OODLES of
questions
from people on Compuserve, and a
lot of them about magic and
grounding...)
FASA.SUPPORT@**********.com
not sure about this one, just saw it in a compuserve forum, may not work
i cannot say if these addresses are correct or still current...as i said
above, paul hume was answering a lot of questions about the game...
| rcoster@*****.net Currently in Baltimore, MD |
| Richard C. Osterhout but hope to be home in |
| professional nerd Orlando, FL soon!!! |
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 13:08:40 GMT
Reply-To: Role Playing Manager <moria@*****.EERIE.FR>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: Role Playing Manager <moria@*****.EERIE.FR>
Subject: Samourai Code
Hoi chummers,
Last evening, I was talking with a friend of a film that was broadcasted
on TV, "YAKUZA", and it reminded me of two sentences I've read somewhere in
Shadowrun: "It's not because you have a SMG Ingram that you're a street samurai"
and "Street samurais obey an honor code". So, we've thought of a really good
idea.
Why not define a common honor code for real Street Samurais?
- If it's not already done -
Here's two ideas I've had on this subject:
- When a Samurai fights against an other Samurai, they shall use
equivalent weapons ( Blade vs Blade, and not Gun vs Blade )
- A Samurai shall never use magic to improve is skills in a fight.
[ Sorry Munchkins ! :) ]
Give your impressions.
Bye
Ben - Nightwolf
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 14:15:42 GMT
Reply-To: Role Playing Manager <moria@*****.EERIE.FR>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: Role Playing Manager <moria@*****.EERIE.FR>
Subject: Re: Samourai Code (fwd)
I've received this mail. I think it must go to SHADOWRN
Ben - NightWolf
-------------------------- CUT HERE ----------------------------------
>From cs93jjb@******.ac.uk Wed Oct 27 14:04:39 1993
From: John Joseph Barry <cs93jjb@******.ac.uk>
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 93 13:04:25 GMT
To: moria
Subject: Re: Samourai Code
Content-Length: 257
i'm all for this idea, i've banned the increased attribute spells period. makes power
playing all too easy. but with respect to the sam V sam idea, what happens in a firefight?
besides, remember the ancient proverb (sort of) about the quick and the dead...
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 14:20:33 GMT
Reply-To: Role Playing Manager <moria@*****.EERIE.FR>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
Comments: <Parser> W: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and
ignored.
From: Role Playing Manager <moria@*****.EERIE.FR>
Subject: Samourai's Code
John Joseph Barry wrote:
> i'm all for this idea, i've banned the increased attribute spells period. makes power
playing all too easy. but with respect to the sam V sam idea, what happens in a firefight?
besides, remember the ancient proverb (sort of) about the quick and the dead...
For a firefight, I think it must be the same system. No Panzer against
a light pistol. 8)
I'm joking ! We can try this code's rule:
- Samu vs Samu -> equivalent weapons
Pistol vs Pistol, SMG vs SMG
or
Light waepon vs light weapon, Heavy weapon vs heavy weapon
Ben - NightWolf
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 09:40:12 -0400
Reply-To: Thom Watson <thom@******.DIGEX.NET>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: Thom Watson <thom@******.DIGEX.NET>
Subject: Re: Gender Benders and successful players...
In-Reply-To: <199310270656.AA29032@******.digex.net> from "The Great Gonzo
`8r)" at Oct 27, 93 01:47:59 am
Once upon a time, The Great Gonzo said
[about playing a female character]
= out nicely. Anyway, I thought it was fun. Luckly, never any romantic
= entaglements...
OK. I really don't want to start a flame war, but this comment sets me
on edge. Why "luckily"? We're talking about a game here; a game of
role-playing and acting. A romantic entanglement between a male
character and a female character (or between female and female, or
male and male) is just that, a relationship between characters; it
implies nothing about the players, except possibly that they're
exceptional or mediocre actors, depending on how they handle
it. Forgive me if I've misread you, but there seems to be some
implicit homophobia in your comment.
Gay men and lesbians who game most often are expected to roleplay
characters with romantic entanglements with characters of the opposite
gender, and rarely have a problem with doing it well or believably, or
call it "unlucky." In fact, in RPGA-sanctioned games, the merest hint
of a gay orientation is dreadfully taboo, while opposite-gender
characters have crushes and explicit romantic desires written into
their descriptions; a terrible double-standard that T$R rapidly
embraces. So if I want to play in an RPGA tournament, I have to play a
straight character. Oddly, I've won about three out of four
tournaments I've played in anyway. I don't like it one bit, but it
doesn't make me incapable of making people believe I am the role I'm
given. (T$R says it doesn't allow any "sex" or "perversion" in its
RPGA-sanctioned games... I've played characters whose descriptions
indicated they wanted to bear another character's children, or who
were priests of a love god who were supposed to seduce other
characters *in RPGA games* and this was not considered sex. I've seen
a number of games re-written by the RPGA to edit out the mention that
another character was gay or lesbian, even though there was no
specific attraction or actions mentioned! Obviously just referring to
a character as gay is either sexual or perverse, while encouraging
straight characters to have babies with each other somehow avoids sex.
Gee, they must have some interesting spells for that, but not a lot of
fun, in those fantasy worlds. :/ )
Oh, and Robert, you said you'd never met a male who could play a woman
without reducing her to an effeminate wimp or a slut. Well, say hello.
My GM allows only me to play opposite-gender characters, because he
says he honestly can't tell them from real, 3-dimensional
women. Modesty aside, I also play the best non-human characters,
because I play them as psychologically alien, not as humans with
pointy ears. After all, if even the people closest to me for years
thought I was a straight man (not a role I put my best efforts into),
it's not much of a stretch to play another role as alien to me as that
one is.
And Deb Decker, IMO, gay men *do* play more believable female
characters, *in general* and *in my personal experience* (YMMV). I
don't suggest it's anything genetic or inherent, but perhaps just a
willingness to look past what many straight men want women to be and
see them as they really are. There are exceptions, of course.
--
Thom Watson thom@******.digex.net
"What sane person could live in this world and not be crazy?"
--Ursula K. LeGuin
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 09:47:15 -0400
Reply-To: Todd Montgomery <tmont@****.WVU.EDU>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: Todd Montgomery <tmont@****.WVU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Question 2: Diceless SR
In-Reply-To: <9310270649.AA25963@****.wvu.edu> from "The Deb Decker" at
Oct 27,
93 01:51:43 am
>From J:
> Role-playing games were interactive games long before CDI and other latter-day
> gizmos. I don't think the mechanics are nearly as important as the
storytelling.
> A lot of the players I've met in the past few years considered themselves
> role-players but still number-crunched their characters and opposition. As a
> GM, I used to make up rules on the spot if I couldn't find an applicable one
> within a couple of minutes. I also fudge die rolls, retroactively place
> items if I realize they would have logically been elsewhere in the first
place,
> and other 'cheating'-as long as it's invisible to my players. They all knew I
> did this, but they couldn't tell WHEN. I am an expert in driving the GM Fiat.
What I mean is more along the lines of the "Interactive Storytelling" common
in the White Wolf Storyteller line. Or some games which are nothing but
story, no dice. Every GM, if they are any good, can manipulate the PCs so
that they don't know they are being manipulated and make the story come
out their way. But what I was saying is allowing the GM to do this along
with the players in a fashion where everything has a price.
> NEVER tell them the target numbers or mods if you can avoid it.
> Sounds like the same trouble you have in a dice system: How tough to make
> the scenario; what numbers to use.
Very true. But with this diceless concept it becomes much more important
to make sure that the points are enough.
> Ah, fate vs Free Will. . .a subject I will gladly let pass if other do.
Gladly. After two semesters of advanced philosophy I am no closer to that
answer than I was before.
-- Quiktek
-- Todd Montgomery
tmont@****.wvu.edu
tmont@***.wvu.edu
un032507@*******.wvnet.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 15:53:25 PRT
Reply-To: Fahnuir <FAHNUIR@******.BITNET>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: Fahnuir <FAHNUIR@******.BITNET>
Subject: Gender Bender
I've played a female twice. Once it was in Shadowrun. I had a human female str
eet-mage that was 1.5 meters tall and had 150kg of weight ( She was really fat,
but she was not ugly. She had a problem with her metabolism that made her get
that fat. She was constantly having diet (Well... She should. Everytime the oth
er players were not looking she just went to Bee Burgers and places like that.)
. She was a really nice pearson, everybody liked her. It was one of the charact
ers that i enjoyed most( It was a realy complicated situation when she had to p
lay the role of 'bait' for the Jack the Riper guy in Dreamchipper( she was the
only woman in the group).
The other time was when i picked a female to be a Burster in RIFTS. She was al
so very fat ( i rolled the maximum in the weight!! ). She was another meatball.
When she made Flick Flacks she simply rolled on the ground).
All of you should try to play a female character at least once in your life.
In my group there is almost always a guy who plays a female character and
sometimes there are characters who have love affairs with each other.
If you have the problem of beeing seen as a homosexual, that's your problem.
IN my group we're all 'normal' ( i'm not saying that gays are not normal!! ), a
nd we usualy have a lot of fun playing female characters.
Fahnuir
P.S.- I sent to the list a spell named Blast Shout and i'd like some comments
on it. I've only received one mail about the subject. Thank you.
In your room, i fell you and i just can't get enough...
Judas
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 11:25:24 EDT
Reply-To: ratinox@***.NEU.EDU
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Organization: 3WA, Boston Office. Or Nu Meta Chi. Take your pick.
Subject: Re: Gender
In-Reply-To: "Robert A. Hayden"'s message of Wed,
27 Oct 1993 00:00:29 -0500 (CDT)
<Pine.3.87.9310270029.A21741-0100000@*******.mankato.msus.edu>
>>>>> "hayden" == Robert A Hayden
<hayden@*******.mankato.msus.edu> writes:
hayden> Pound for pound, I would place my money on a woman being able to
hayden> beat the living shit out of a man.
Heh. It's always the one you least expect :-).
hayden> Of course, I'll place more money on a troll...
A female, troll Street Samurai... eewwww! :-)
--
Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> Northeastern's Stainless Steel Rat
ask about rat-pgp.el v1.63 PGP Public Key Block available upon request
||| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |||
Odds don't matter when Humans want something bad enough. --UHED series 507
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 16:29:02 MDT
Reply-To: Legion am I <legion@**************.ARMY.MIL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: Legion am I <legion@**************.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: Hasta la vista... fer now
Good denizens of Shadowland; I'll be off the list until I can
reconstitute myselves in the great state of Colorado.
If anybody cares, I can be reached at:
mloseke@***.cs.du.edu
for the interim.
Legion
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1993 01:01:50 +0930
Reply-To: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Samourai Code (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199310271323.AA08872@********.cs.ntu.edu.au> from "Role Playing
Manager" at Oct 27, 93 02:15:42 pm
>
>I've received this mail. I think it must go to SHADOWRN
>
> Ben - NightWolf
>
>-------------------------- CUT HERE ----------------------------------
>>From cs93jjb@******.ac.uk Wed Oct 27 14:04:39 1993
>From: John Joseph Barry <cs93jjb@******.ac.uk>
>Date: Wed, 27 Oct 93 13:04:25 GMT
>To: moria
>Subject: Re: Samourai Code
>Content-Length: 257
>
>i'm all for this idea, i've banned the increased attribute spells period. makes
power playing all too easy. but with respect to the sam V sam idea, what
happens in a firefight? besides, remember the ancient proverb (sort of) about
the quick and the dead..>.
>
I've kept the increased attribute spells (they can often give those mages
enough of an edge to be useful) (mages in my groups never seem to get a go,
with the muscle all thinking WR 3 is the way to go), but I've made them
personal only, and got rid of the increase reflexes.
Besides, if no-one's toting spell-locks, how can the astral mages fry them?? :)
As for the samurai code: A _true_ street sam follows the code of the warrior
(romantic version, made politically correct :) This mainly means being a
protector, not a ravisher. You're out there to protect your friends, family,
social group etc. This can take the form of being an idealist, or the cynical
street veteran who only does the job to keep the nuyen flowing.
On the other hand, even _true_ street sams are pros. They may turn down
assasination jobs, where the target can't fight back. They may try to disable
guards rather than killing them. But I doubt they'll fail to take into account
all the possible advantages, if that's whats needed to fulfill the mission.
Also, it's always been my policy that the further away you kill the enemy, the
less likely they are to hurt you before they die.
"Besides, all that hand-to-hand stuff gets blood on your clothes, and messes
up the shine on your shoes" -- Robby Jackson, in one of Tom Clancy's books
(Patriot Games??)
--
Robert Watkins
bob@******.cs.ntu.edu.au
************ It wouldn't be luck if you could get out of life alive. ***********
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 11:56:44 GMT
Reply-To: RJR96326@****.UTULSA.EDU
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: The Deb Decker <RJR96326@****.UTULSA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Samourai Code
> Why not define a common honor code for real Street Samurais?
Nice Idea. However, not all of what we call street samurai would have a
code. To me, the street sam is a thug who made it big, though variations
(such as the Yak hitman) would certainly have a code. In all cases, though,
I don't see a samurai letting his code get in the way of a job.
J Roberson
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 12:26:15 -0400
Reply-To: ANGLISS@****.PSU.EDU
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: ANGLISS@****.PSU.EDU
Subject: Question on thermite and white phosphorus
Ok, I have a need for real world statistics on temperature for white phospor.
and thermite, and what they can to to various metals like steel(thinking along
the lines of melting, cutting through, etc.) Can anyone help me out here?
Brian
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 12:11:18 -0500
Reply-To: Incoming fire has the right-of-way <MHILLIARD@******.BITNET>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: Incoming fire has the right-of-way <MHILLIARD@******.BITNET>
Subject: Gender Benders (?) and Samurai honor
I enjoy running female characters. Or aliens. Anything significantly
different from what I actually am. That's my idea opf roleplaying. If I can,
I model a female character after a real woman I know. Helps to avoid
stereotypes. I've also run games where 'gender benders' were done well.
But I've seen it done poorly as well. It's a real challenge, and not
one every roleplayer is up to.
*****
I always thought that 'Samurai' was an inappropriate term for a
shadowrunner. Part of the orignal samurai's code was absolute obedience to
one's feudal overlord. The SR equivelent would be Company Men, and other
corp security types. 'Ronin' (masterless warrior) is a better term for a
shadowrunner.
Still, the idea of shadowrunners having a code of honor. I've
always played it that way. For some, of course, the nuyen will always be
the bottom line. But they aren't the ones urban legends are made of.
Phelan
BTW, what's with the listserv? I'm getting all the messages out of order
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 12:26:18 -0500
Reply-To: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@*******.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@*******.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Question on thermite and white phosphorus
On Wed, 27 Oct 1993 ANGLISS@****.PSU.EDU wrote:
> Ok, I have a need for real world statistics on temperature for white phospor.
> and thermite, and what they can to to various metals like steel(thinking along
> the lines of melting, cutting through, etc.) Can anyone help me out here?
2500 degrees F sticks in my mind for thermite, but I'm probably wrong.
____ Robert A. Hayden <=> hayden@*******.mankato.msus.edu
\ /__ -=-=-=-=- <=> -=-=-=-=-
\/ / Finger for Geek Code Info <=> Veteran of the Bermuda Triangle
\/ Finger for PGP 2.3a Public Key <=> Expeditionary Force -- 1993-1951
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
(GEEK CODE 1.0.1) GSS d- -p+(---) c++(++++) l++ u++ e+/* m++(*)@ s-/++
n-(---) h+(*) f+ g+ w++ t++ r++ y+(*)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 12:48:30 GMT
Reply-To: RJR96326@****.UTULSA.EDU
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: The Deb Decker <RJR96326@****.UTULSA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Question: Aging
>ld merc (which seems almost impossible since the humans average life span
>is only 55 years.
Unlikely, but not impossible.
J Roberson
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 12:51:02 GMT
Reply-To: RJR96326@****.UTULSA.EDU
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: The Deb Decker <RJR96326@****.UTULSA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Next Part: You know what!... I'm sorry
Nay, someone has far too little time but just happens to be in a room with
no windows and nothing but COMPUTERS! COMPUTERS! COMPUTERS! 5 hours a
week and spends another 20 in a room full of laser printers, a scanner,
Vax terminals, Macs, DOS, Windows. . .geebidageebidageebida
J Roberson
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 12:48:36 -0500
Reply-To: Doctor Doom <JCH8169@*****.TAMU.EDU>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: Doctor Doom <JCH8169@*****.TAMU.EDU>
Subject: Diceless SR and fudging Dice Rolls...
>From Herr Roberson:
>within a couple of minutes. I also fudge die rolls, retroactively place
>items if I realize they would have logically been elsewhere in the first place,
>and other 'cheating'-as long as it's invisible to my players. They all knew I
>did this, but they couldn't tell WHEN. I am an expert in driving the GM Fiat.
In the few instances I have "fudged" dice rolls is in cases to avoid simple Bad
Fortune from terminating a Player Character. Certainly I believe in risk and
vulnerability, and I am more than willing to permit a character to expire due
to rampant stupidity...but being dealt a decidedly bad hand by Fate, despite
behaving and considering the situation rationally and intelligently, is not
sufficient reason to expunge a character, to my mind.
Colonel Count von Hohenzollern und von Doom, DMSc, DSc, PhD.
Doom Technologies & Weapon Systems -- Dark Thought Publications
>>> Working on solutions best left in the dark.
<<<
[ Doctor Doom : jch8169@********.tamu.edu ]
^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^
"Attack, attack, and when in doubt, ATTACK!" -- Frederick the Great of Prussia
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 12:44:29 -0500
Reply-To: "Dark Thought Publications." <JEK5313@*****.TAMU.EDU>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: "Dark Thought Publications." <JEK5313@*****.TAMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: You know what!... I'm not happy.
J Roberson:
]A number of us have posted ideas for titles to the list, incorporating each
]other's previous ideas. For instance, there was NERPS, there was NERPS:NAGSUL,
]and variations thereupon that have since been rejected. Just because we don't
]mention your title ideas specifically doesn't mean we're ignoring you.
]Eat some ice and take a chill pill.
No, that wasn't proposed to be NERPS:NASGUL. It was NEVER that. It was just
NASGUL. No NERPS involved, though NERPS might be the solution for NASGUL.
Nevermind, that's just getting too silly.
--Flare <NULLSIG COURTESY OF DOOM>
Dark Thought Publications & Doom Technologies, Inc.
>>> Working on solutions best left in the dark.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 12:58:29 -0500
Reply-To: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@*******.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@*******.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: Half Graduation
This is a quick and pointless announcement:
As of the end of this quarter, which is like the first week of December,
I will have achieved the required coursework to get my Associates of
Science degree.
Oooo-Rah.
This has been a public service announcement. Now back to the real world.
____ Robert A. Hayden <=> hayden@*******.mankato.msus.edu
\ /__ -=-=-=-=- <=> -=-=-=-=-
\/ / Finger for Geek Code Info <=> Veteran of the Bermuda Triangle
\/ Finger for PGP 2.3a Public Key <=> Expeditionary Force -- 1993-1951
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
(GEEK CODE 1.0.1) GSS d- -p+(---) c++(++++) l++ u++ e+/* m++(*)@ s-/++
n-(---) h+(*) f+ g+ w++ t++ r++ y+(*)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 13:08:31 GMT
Reply-To: RJR96326@****.UTULSA.EDU
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: The Deb Decker <RJR96326@****.UTULSA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Gender Benders and successful players...
>OK. I really don't want to start a flame war, but this comment sets me
>on edge. Why "luckily"? We're talking about a game here; a game of
I agree; a game of role-playing. Although the character could have
regarded herself as lucky for not falling for someone; romantic entanglements
just are good to have as a Shadowrunner.
>t. Forgive me if I've misread you, but there seems to be some
>implicit homophobia in your comment.
I think you grossly misread the statement. I didn't see anything homophobic
at all. Unless you assume that someone is homophobic because they are
uncomftorable playing an orientation that isn't there's, which you gripe
about below.
>Gay men and lesbians who game most often are expected to roleplay
>characters with romantic entanglements with characters of the opposite
>gender
I'm sorry to hear it. But then, I've never played or run an RPGA game. If
someone wanted to play a homosexual in my campaign, 'skay by me.
>Oh, and Robert, you said you'd never met a male who could play a woman
>without reducing her to an effeminate wimp or a slut. Well, say hello.
I can see the cyberego gently being stroked by an arm linked mysteriously
to you account. :)
>My GM allows only me to play opposite-gender characters, because he
>says he honestly can't tell them from real, 3-dimensional
I'm glad your GM finds your role-playing commendable. But I cannot
abide anyone who limits the choice of play; why doesn't he try to help
other interested players figure out how to better their "performance"?
THAT's a fascist GM.
>Modesty aside
You aleady did that.
>I also play the best non-human characters,
\ /
Here's your medal. -->o
>thought I was a straight man (not a role I put my best efforts into),
>it's not much of a stretch to play another role as alien to me as that
>one is.
Equating homosexuality with another race. *SHEESH* Now there's a stereotype
for you.
>And Deb Decker, IMO, gay men *do* play more believable female
>characters, *in general* and *in my personal experience* (YMMV). I
Great. In my experience, the last post indicated that straight men could
not play women well at all and that is bullshit.
>don't suggest it's anything genetic or inherent, but perhaps just a
>willingness to look past what many straight men want women to be and
>see them as they really are. There are exceptions, of course.
And I believe I am one of them, though I can't say Jaez is a great example
because she IS such a stereotypical Valeey Girl (which is most definitely
NOT what I seek in romantic company). Actually, some of my best friends have
been women, with no romance to the relationship at all. I think that counts
for something along the lines of seeing women as people and not meat.
J Roberson
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 14:12:59 EDT
Reply-To: ratinox@***.NEU.EDU
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Organization: 3WA, Boston Office. Or Nu Meta Chi. Take your pick.
Subject: More Diceless Shadowrun
I think I've got an easier-to-deal-with "diceless" system for Shadowrun,
which is pretty much the one I came up with for Storyteller games, with a
few tweaks. I put diceless in quotes as it's not really, totally diceless,
but it can remove a *lot* of the dice rolling.
Compare rating vs. target number (T#s should not be revealed if at all
possible); Include any pool dice in the rating. If the rating is less than
the T#, you fail. At this point you can opt to roll some dice, and resolve
the test normally. (If the GM decides to have no dice rolling at all, you
spend 1 point of Karma for 1 success, no more). If the rating is higher
than the T#, you succeed; each point that the rating exceeds the T# counts
as one extra success. You can spend Karma normally to increase success at
this point.
Example:
Sam the Samurai is in a gunfight with Kid Kwik the Physical Adept. Sam's
Firearms is 7, concentrated in SMG for 8, and he allocates 4 dice from
his combat pool for the attack, for a total rating of 12. Sam's T# to hit
Kid Kwik is 4 (Sam can guess, but he doesn't know exactly what it is),
but he has plenty of dice allocated and hits Kid Kwik (12 is greater than
4). Sam also scores 8 extra successes in his attack.
Kid Kwik applies his armor jacket (5/3) against Sam's heavy pistol (9M).
He has a Body of 5 and allocates 5 dice from his combat pool to resist
damage. 9 minus 5 is 4, so his resistance test T# is 4; his 10 dice is
greater than the T# by 6, canceling 6 of Sam's successes. Not enough as
Sam's attack is staged up to a serious wound.
--
Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> Northeastern's Stainless Steel Rat
ask about rat-pgp.el v1.63 PGP Public Key Block available upon request
||| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |||
Listen and understand. That Terminator is out there. It can't be bargained
with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear.
And it absolutely will not stop, ever... until you are dead.
--Kyle Reese, from the movie `Terminator'
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 13:29:40 CDT
Reply-To: Joe McNulty <mcnultyj@****.JMB.COM>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: Joe McNulty <mcnultyj@****.JMB.COM>
Subject: Misc Stuff
Ok, got a few questions for you guys out there. Last night I was GMin' my
'normal' group, and in the process of the night we came upon a few things
we never really dealt with before, and I made several off the cuff rulings
that seemed rather gray, and a few were later contested with 'rule quoting'
This was of course done after the session. We don't like to bog down the
game if my rulings at least sound remotely logical...
Anyway, the players are in the Amazon jungle after a plane wreck and are
trekkin' through the forest. So most of the encounters are Critters <
<don't ya just love that word...>, so there has been quite a lot of melee
combat.
The first thing to come up was Full defense melee option. I said in full
defense you cannot do damage to the opponent, even if you exceed the
opponents successes with you un/armed combat test. The book is rather gray
on this point. Depending how you read it, it could go either way. My group
agreed on the point, but I thought I'd see how you guys play it.
The next was with a barrier spell. A shaman wanted to cast Mana barrier
around himself and another mage who was promptly suffering lots of damage
from some not-so-friendly-and-hungry Vampire Bats. I ruled that he had
to withold dice from his test to reduce the radius of the barrier so as
only to place the dome around himself and the mage. Later on, the other
mage quotes the spell from the book as saying the mage can shape the barrier
however they want. But of course, in order to do it in the above example
he would have had to create a fairly complex geometric shape, so I still
told him no. Would anyone else have done different?
Thanks a bunch,
Joe
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 14:43:25 -0400
Reply-To: Mark Imbriaco <mai@**.ODU.EDU>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: Mark Imbriaco <mai@**.ODU.EDU>
Subject: Winter Catalog?
Can someone tell me what the 'Ares Winter Catalog' is? I thought I had
all of the sourcebooks, but I simply can't find this one anywhere??
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 14:45:18 EDT
Reply-To: ratinox@***.NEU.EDU
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Organization: 3WA, Boston Office. Or Nu Meta Chi. Take your pick.
Subject: Re: Misc Stuff
In-Reply-To: Joe McNulty's message of Wed,
27 Oct 93 13:29:40 CDT <SHADOWRN%93102719282761@***.SURFNET.NL>
>>>>> "JM" == Joe McNulty <mcnultyj@****.jmb.com> writes:
JM> The first thing to come up was Full defense melee option. I said in
JM> full defense you cannot do damage to the opponent, even if you exceed
JM> the opponents successes with you un/armed combat test. The book is
JM> rather gray on this point. Depending how you read it, it could go
JM> either way. My group agreed on the point, but I thought I'd see how you
JM> guys play it.
You are correct. Full defense is just that, *full* defense; you are not
attacking, so you can't do any damage.
JM> The next was with a barrier spell. A shaman wanted to cast Mana
JM> barrier around himself and another mage who was promptly suffering lots
JM> of damage from some not-so-friendly-and-hungry Vampire Bats. I ruled
JM> that he had to withold dice from his test to reduce the radius of the
JM> barrier so as only to place the dome around himself and the mage.
JM> Later on, the other mage quotes the spell from the book as saying the
JM> mage can shape the barrier however they want. But of course, in order
JM> to do it in the above example he would have had to create a fairly
JM> complex geometric shape, so I still told him no. Would anyone else have
JM> done different?
Any shape is no problem; he could make is spherical, a 2-D wall,
zig-zagging, or whatever. It is *size* we are dealing with. I think you are
correct in your witholding of dice to reduce the size of the Barrier.
--
Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> Northeastern's Stainless Steel Rat
ask about rat-pgp.el v1.63 PGP Public Key Block available upon request
||| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |||
There are no problems. If there were problems, they would be your fault. If
there was, hypothetically, a problem, and it was not your fault, it would
be impossible for us to fix. That's not a supported configuration.
--Andrew Molitor (in a post on alt.fan.pern)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 13:54:15 CDT
Reply-To: Joe McNulty <mcnultyj@****.JMB.COM>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: Joe McNulty <mcnultyj@****.JMB.COM>
Subject: Re: Misc Stuff
In-Reply-To: from "Stainless Steel Rat" at Oct 27, 93 2:45 pm
> Any shape is no problem; he could make is spherical, a 2-D wall,
> zig-zagging, or whatever. It is *size* we are dealing with. I think you are
> correct in your witholding of dice to reduce the size of the Barrier.
>
Oh, i forgot on thing, the mage claimed they could have made a dome around
them to their ankle, and then have a horizontal barrier going out from there.
That just seemed a little far-fetched.
Thanks,
Joe
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 12:00:45 -0700
Reply-To: HAHN@***.EDU
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: Stefan Hahn <HAHN@***.EDU>
Subject: errata
My 4 ha'penniies worth:
Samurai Honor Code: Are we talking Bushido, "the Way of the Warrior," here?
I gotta tellya, the samurai I've seen in SR have been money-grubbing
mercs who'll do anything to get the job done and make a dishonest buck,
including ripping off their Mr. Johnsons. Picture this:
*Scene of Bloodwing and Spectre (our cybered-to-the-gills combat monster)
having a standoff on a hospital roof, 1 a.m.*
Spectre: "Shall we do it the old-fashioned way, then? Mano-a-mano?"
Bloodwing: "Very well. Let's do it."
*both characters take off their Incredibly Heavy Weapons TM and draw katanas.*
Spectre: "We thought you were dead."
Bloodwing: (wry smile) "It seems you were mistaken."
Spectre: "Perhaps. But not for long."
*the two circle each other like great cats, waiting for an opening.*
Spectre: "Before I kill you, there's something you should know..."
Bloodwing: "Yes?"
Spectre: "You always were a moron."
*Whips out his concealed Ares Squirt and plasters Bloodwing with Hyper right in
the face, while two of my city spirits (I was hiding behind some air
conditioning machinery on the roof) latch onto him. He didn't last long.*
Gender Benders: Some of my friends hate it when guys play gals or vice-versa,
but I don't have a problem with it, IF YOU CAN DO IT CONVINCINGLY. I can't
stand the stereotypical Butch Bitch w/ Big Blaster. Booorrring. If, on the
other hand, you can get more in touch with your female side, (or male, if
you're not) There's no reason you can't play a convincing Member Of the
Opposite SEx (M.O.O.S.E.), Alien, Small Furry Creature From Alpha Centauri...
\\\You just have to learn to look at things from a new point of view\\\
Old Characters in New Campaigns: As long as they aren't munchkinous, a lot of
high-powered characters can fit in with the average campaign. I'd say, however,
that the old character should be within 25% of the accumulated karma of the
average party member. Dropping in your 50-Karma Monster with a group of 10-K
arma newbies is only going to make the other players hate your guts and plot to
kill you for your stuff.
****************************************************************/***\**********
HAHN@***.EDU***************************************************//***\\*********
***********************************************************(\*( |***| )*/)*****
**********************************************************( ^\ \***/ /^ )****
***********************************************************\ \*/ /*****
************************************************************(_ _/*\_ _)******
**************************************************************[ (*O*) ]********
***************************************************************\|***|/*********
****************************************************************\***/**********
WITH ORION'S SWORD THE HUNTER AROSE AND CONQUERED THE WORLD WITH FURY AND GRACE
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 19:58:34 PRT
Reply-To: Fahnuir <FAHNUIR@******.BITNET>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: Fahnuir <FAHNUIR@******.BITNET>
Subject: *.art
I went to FTP teetot.acusd.edu and there i found files like aircraft.art
What kind of file is this?
Is it something like a GIF?
If it is, what program do i need to use the file?
Thanks for your answers
Fahnuir
In your room, i fell you and i just can't get enough...
Judas
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 20:23:19 PRT
Reply-To: Mark Imbriaco <mai@**.ODU.EDU>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
Comments: To: ShadowRun List <shadowrn@***.surfnet.nl>
Comments: Resent-From: Fahnuir <FAHNUIR@******>
Comments: Originally-From: Mark Imbriaco <mai@**.ODU.EDU>
From: Fahnuir <FAHNUIR@******.BITNET>
Subject: Winter Catalog?
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Can someone tell me what the 'Ares Winter Catalog' is? I thought I had
>all of the sourcebooks, but I simply can't find this one anywhere??
I want it too!!!!!!!!
Fahnuir
In your room, i feel you and i just can't get enough...
Judas
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 12:33:16 -0700
Reply-To: Nightfox <DJWA@******.UCC.NAU.EDU>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: Nightfox <DJWA@******.UCC.NAU.EDU>
Subject: AGE
Actually, I believe about 55 is the normal world wide expected life span at this
moment. Does that mean that people don't live past 55? No it means that there
is high infant mortality and also a high death rate in less developed over
populated areas - like the barrens.
Remember the average life expectancy of a ganger is less than 24 folks.
Dan
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 14:40:51 EST
Reply-To: steven mancini <mancinis@******.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: steven mancini <mancinis@******.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject: Samurai Code
I think we are overlooking a valuable source for developing
this 'code' - Bushido!
Unfortunately, I am no asian scholar and could not provide a
comprehensive list. Perhaps someone else out there knows
of an online source of the bushido code- preferably in
English :)
Da Minotaur
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 15:33:35 -0500
Reply-To: "Elves are better at night 8)" <MKNABUSCH@******.BITNET>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: "Elves are better at night 8)" <MKNABUSCH@******.BITNET>
Subject: Gender
I got my first attempt at playing a female
char. in (gah!) AD_D. Next came Robotech and Rifts.
Now I'm doing it in SRun. It gets easier as A) You
get older B) You get used to it. Currently I am
playing three characters (Not all at once).
Harlequin (elven sam/decker)
She-is-Hard-to-Catch (Female raccoon shaman)
and Sabre (Female elven sam).
If you ask the guys in my group, they'd tell you it adds
a new twist to the story. One other member of the group
plays a female and he is a riot to watch.
Anyway, Sabre is Harlie's half sister. She's really a
decent elf except when the racial and gender slurs come her
way.
Hard-to-Catch is different. She's Harlie's girlfriend. Whats
worse is she acts like a ditz. But its only an act. She figures
that people will underestimate her that way, and it gives her an
edge. The look on the riggers face when he fail a BS roll to
con the Border Guard and T.C. stepped up and handed the guard a
similar line (she has low ett. but high Char. and rolls well)
and he took it. The Rigger nearly choked he was so upset. How
could this ditz to such things?
It makes for some of the best role-playing around.
Harlequin
aka Michael Knabusch
(P.S. Only T.C.'s closest friends know she isn't a ditz.
Which makes it that musch more fun when she shows her smarts
to the ones who don't know.)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 15:50:27 -0400
Reply-To: Mark Imbriaco <mai@**.ODU.EDU>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: Mark Imbriaco <mai@**.ODU.EDU>
Subject: Re: *.art
In-Reply-To: <9310271904.AA22712@*************.cs.odu.edu>
On Wed, 27 Oct 1993, Fahnuir wrote:
> I went to FTP teetot.acusd.edu and there i found files like aircraft.art
> What kind of file is this?
> Is it something like a GIF?
> If it is, what program do i need to use the file?
>
>
> Thanks for your answers
> Fahnuir
>
>
>
> In your room, i fell you and i just can't get enough...
> Judas
They are 'articles' not 'art' :) It is like an article on basic principles
behind aircraft and such..
Mantis
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 16:05:58 -0400
Reply-To: Mark Imbriaco <mai@**.ODU.EDU>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: Mark Imbriaco <mai@**.ODU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Winter Catalog?
In-Reply-To: <01H4M2FDXSS28WX1DH@********.cortland.edu>
On Wed, 27 Oct 1993, DV82REL8 wrote:
> >Can someone tell me what the 'Ares Winter Catalog' is? I thought I had
> >all of the sourcebooks, but I simply can't find this one anywhere??
>
>
> I belive that this is like the street Samurai catalog (pt.2) in a sense the
> sequel to the SS catalog.
>
But there is NO difference between SSC1 and SSC2 other than updated damage
codes, right?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 16:09:34 EDT
Reply-To: ratinox@***.NEU.EDU
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Organization: 3WA, Boston Office. Or Nu Meta Chi. Take your pick.
Subject: Re: Samurai Code
In-Reply-To: steven mancini's message of Wed,
27 Oct 93 14:40:51 EST <9310271940.AA23142@******.cc.purdue.edu>
>>>>> "sm" == steven mancini
<mancinis@******.cc.purdue.edu> writes:
sm> I think we are overlooking a valuable source for developing
sm> this 'code' - Bushido!
You bring Bushido into it, and you find a stumbling block: Samurai have
sworn fealty to their lord and master. A Street Samurai is technically
'ronin,' a former Samurai who no longer has a master (for a variety of
reasons), or just a common fighter-type. Amazing how one Gibsonian slip
(using the term Samurai when he should have used ronin) has had such an
effect.
Basically, Bushido works something like this.
You swear fealty to your lord and master. You will then follow all orders
given by your leige *to the letter*. Failure to do so is a stain upon your
honor, punnishable by death. Note: the suffix '-sama', meaning 'lord',
originates at this point. Not to be confused with '-san', meaning 'revered
one' or 'honored one', '-sama' means everything that '-san' does, plus it
reinforces the oath of fealty.
Any slights against your honor must be immediately repaid, often by
execution of the offender. Failure to do so is a stain upon your honor.
You will honor your ancestors and protect your family. Failure to do so is
a stain upon your honor.
You will protect those who are weaker than yourself. Failure to do so is a
stain upon your honor.
[See a pattern forming here? :-]
A suitable form of self-punnishment is in order to cleanse stains from your
honor. In some cases, such as failure to obey your leige, the sepuku ritual
is in order. Failure to perform the cleansing is an even graver stain upon
your honor, one that often transfers to your family and ancestors. Not a
good thing, given that Shinto is a form of ancestor worship.
If you want to see how convoluted this can get, watch Shogun (the long
version). The Pilot's relationship with Mariko is a stain on Mariko's
honor, and that of her husband. Mariko's husband is forbidden to kill the
Pilot, which compounds the situation and his personal dishonor. Another
example, the Pilot's pheasant which he ordered nobody to touch. After a
week the stench of it rotting is enough to cause one of the peasants to
volunteer to remove it; he is then executed for disobeying the Pilot's
orders.
Having some kind of personal code is one thing. Living up to the standards
of Bushido is quite another. Very few Samurai truely fully lived Bushido.
Some good places to start, as far as references go, are _Go Rin No Sho_
(_The Book of Five Rings_) and _The Art of War_. Comparing these two texts
you will find that strategy is often dishonorable. Or, as my gaming group
is fond of saying, "honor gets you killed." You might also want to skim
through a book on Zen Buddhism, and Shinto practices.
--
Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> Northeastern's Stainless Steel Rat
ask about rat-pgp.el v1.63 PGP Public Key Block available upon request
||| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |||
Good, bad... I'm the guy with the gun.
--Ashe, from the movie `Army of Darkness'
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 15:47:27 EDT
Reply-To: "Michael A. Kauffman" <mak9@******.EDU>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: "Michael A. Kauffman" <mak9@******.EDU>
Subject: Re: *.art
> I went to FTP teetot.acusd.edu and there i found files like aircraft.art
> What kind of file is this?
> Thanks for your answers
> Fahnuir
They are text files left over from our(KAGE-CAR's) attempt at redesigning RBB
last spring. I believe the .art stands for article.
Mike
+---------------------+----------------------+--------------------------+
| Michael A. Kauffman | Lehigh University | 670 Atlantic Str. |
| A.K.A. Amonchare | Chemistry Department | Bethlehem, PA 18015-3538 |
| Guak | 6 E. Packer Ave. | (215) 758-5468 (w) |
| mak9@******.edu | Bethlehem, PA 18015 | (215) 868-5043 (h) |
+---------------------+----------------------+--------------------------+
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 16:44:05 -0500
Reply-To: The Reverend <MDB0213@*****.TAMU.EDU>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: The Reverend <MDB0213@*****.TAMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Winter (not the company, the book)
]But there is NO difference between SSC1 and SSC2 other than updated damage
]codes, right?
Actually, if I were you, I'd buy the 1st edition version. While you can change
SSC1 to SSC2 (the update's in the back of SR2), it's harder to change SSC2 to
SSC1. (The pages have huge THIS ITEM BANNED IN SR2 written on the page, and so
you can't see anything useful) If you are ever going to play SR1, you're
screwed with certain items. Plus, you should be able to find 1 for less.
---
The Reverend "They called me the Reverend when I entered the church unstained"
Fear the Information Revolution...for it has reached the hands of the strange.
PGP 2.2 Public Key Block available upon request
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 15:06:18 -0700
Reply-To: Nightfox <DJWA@******.UCC.NAU.EDU>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: Nightfox <DJWA@******.UCC.NAU.EDU>
Subject: Winter Catalog
The Ares Winter Catalog is the Street Samurai Catalog
I believe it was FastJack who down loaded the thing to Shadowland.
As to the difference between SSCI and SSCII - there is hardly any.
The difference occurs in the two games - and the weapons were all change to
reflect this.
Also - there should be a NEW street Samurai Catalog coming out
namely the Ares Winter 2054 catalog
the old one was winter 2051
HEY, go figure. I suspect it will have a little more info
on Vehicles, Cyber, Bio, Guns guns and more guns
And hopefully a flame thrower.
Probably some more armor rules. Maybe even The Barret-112 heh heh heh
It will probably also have a little more on Monofilament weapons
like the mono-swiss-army-knife.
Dan
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1993 07:44:54 +0930
Reply-To: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Samurai code
If you want a "warrior's code" for your campaign, don't bother looking at
Bushido, don't bother look at the Chivalric code. Look at movies and books.
After all, this is the same place your characters would have gone to get their
inspiration. Don't worry about "historical accuraccy", just go out and play the
romantic style knight.
--
Robert Watkins
bob@******.cs.ntu.edu.au
************ It wouldn't be luck if you could get out of life alive. ***********
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 18:23:43 -0400
Reply-To: DV82REL8 <GRAFF85@********.CORTLAND.EDU>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: DV82REL8 <GRAFF85@********.CORTLAND.EDU>
Subject: SSC1 vs SSC2
>On Wed, 27 Oct 1993, DV82REL8 wrote:
>
>> >Can someone tell me what the 'Ares Winter Catalog' is? I thought I had
>> >all of the sourcebooks, but I simply can't find this one anywhere??
>>
>>
>> I belive that this is like the street Samurai catalog (pt.2) in a sense the
>> sequel to the SS catalog.
>>
[ON Wed, 27 October 1993 you replyed]
>
>But there is NO difference between SSC1 and SSC2 other than updated damage
>codes, right?
Ahh but you are not seeing what I mean: SSC1 & SSC2 are both in 2051 while
Ares Winter Catalog is for 2054.
CWIM?
-Head Case
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 15:18:44 -0700
Reply-To: Nightfox <DJWA@******.UCC.NAU.EDU>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: Nightfox <DJWA@******.UCC.NAU.EDU>
Subject: Street Samurai
What is a Street Samurai?
It isn't the weapons
any one can use an ingram
it isn't the cyber
riggers, mercs and deckers have cyber
it isn't the skills
mercs, and company men have a lot of the same skills
A street Samurai needs all of these to be a Sam. A street sam is a TOUGH
street person with an edge in skill and cyberware. Being a Street Sam is also
an attitude, they know the street and they tend to be one of the most deadly
things on it. Any lucky gutter punk can get some cyber and possibly find an
ingram. But does he have the raw never to be the toughest out there? to fling
lead in a full blown fire-fight? does he have the skill to use the weapon? or
any other weapon that comes his way? Does he have that cold hard outlook that
makes him effective street muscle? If not he is just a wanna-be a dangerous
wanna-be but just one none the less. A sam turns fhimself over to the cyber to
get the edge and keeps the edge to stay alive.
Read the discription in the book - Sam's are the hunters of the street - the
most dangerous people on it. ANd even if they aren't - they think they are and
are very dangerous.
Loyalty, Righteous and honor are all just personality of different people.
You don't have to that to be a Sam.
Dan
Just look at the amout of cyber and the essence of a Sam - thats what makes a
Sam partly.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 18:37:50 -0500
Reply-To: Incoming fire has the right-of-way <MHILLIARD@******.BITNET>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: Incoming fire has the right-of-way <MHILLIARD@******.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Winter Catalog?
It's the 2nd ed Street Sam Catalog
Phelan
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 17:46:47 CDT
Reply-To: Master Hawk <fannicm%WKUVX1.bitnet@******.LOUISVILLE.EDU>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: Master Hawk <fannicm%WKUVX1.bitnet@******.LOUISVILLE.EDU>
Subject: Winter Catalog
From what I have heard about the Winter Catalog it is the 2053 SSC.
It is supposed to have a few new toys for sale, rent, theft, etc.
TTYL
-=-=-=-=-
_ _ _ _ ,
' ) ) ) _/_ ' ) / /
/ / / __. _ / _ __ /--/ __. , , , /_
/ ' (_(_/|_/_)_<__</_/ ( / (_(_/|_(_(_/_/ <_
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 18:54:00 -0400
Reply-To: Mark Imbriaco <mai@**.ODU.EDU>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: Mark Imbriaco <mai@**.ODU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Winter Catalog
In-Reply-To: <9310272246.AB24729@*************.cs.odu.edu>
On Wed, 27 Oct 1993, Master Hawk wrote:
> From what I have heard about the Winter Catalog it is the 2053 SSC.
> It is supposed to have a few new toys for sale, rent, theft, etc.
>
> TTYL
> -=-=-=-=-
> _ _ _ _ ,
> ' ) ) ) _/_ ' ) / /
> / / / __. _ / _ __ /--/ __. , , , /_
> / ' (_(_/|_/_)_<__</_/ ( / (_(_/|_(_(_/_/ <_
But how come it has been in the front of all of the sourcebooks that have
come out recently, if no one has seen it.. what gives? :-)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 18:56:54 -0400
Reply-To: Mark Imbriaco <mai@**.ODU.EDU>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: Mark Imbriaco <mai@**.ODU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Winter (not the company, the book)
In-Reply-To: <9310272142.AA24237@*************.cs.odu.edu>
On Wed, 27 Oct 1993, The Reverend wrote:
> ]But there is NO difference between SSC1 and SSC2 other than updated damage
> ]codes, right?
>
> Actually, if I were you, I'd buy the 1st edition version. While you can change
> SSC1 to SSC2 (the update's in the back of SR2), it's harder to change SSC2 to
> SSC1. (The pages have huge THIS ITEM BANNED IN SR2 written on the page, and so
> you can't see anything useful) If you are ever going to play SR1, you're
> screwed with certain items. Plus, you should be able to find 1 for less.
I already have the SSC1, and had no intentions of getting 2, since SR2 has the
nice little unified equipment/damage charts. :) I was just curious what
exactly the 'Ares Winter Catalog 2054 (Annotated)' was.. is this just
another name for SSC2?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 16:06:13 -0700
Reply-To: Nightfox <DJWA@******.UCC.NAU.EDU>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: Nightfox <DJWA@******.UCC.NAU.EDU>
Subject: Were you not listening
were you not listening?
The Street Samurai catalog is the Down load of the ARES WINTER CATALOG
2051 by Fastjack (I believe). Look in the begining of the SSC and it will say
ARES WINTER CATALOG and it has TWO sections one on civilian stuff and one on
Security. It also has an add-on cyber-ware section.
There is a NEW SSC coming out this winter called ARES WINTER CATALOG 2054
and it shall contain new things.
Dan
Did I not state all this less than 45 minutes ago?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 19:18:21 -0400
Reply-To: Mark Imbriaco <mai@**.ODU.EDU>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: Mark Imbriaco <mai@**.ODU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Were you not listening
In-Reply-To: <9310272309.AA24938@*************.cs.odu.edu>
On Wed, 27 Oct 1993, Nightfox wrote:
> were you not listening?
>
> The Street Samurai catalog is the Down load of the ARES WINTER CATALOG
> 2051 by Fastjack (I believe). Look in the begining of the SSC and it will say
> ARES WINTER CATALOG and it has TWO sections one on civilian stuff and one on
> Security. It also has an add-on cyber-ware section.
>
> There is a NEW SSC coming out this winter called ARES WINTER CATALOG 2054
> and it shall contain new things.
>
> Dan
> Did I not state all this less than 45 minutes ago?
Yeah, you did, but I had already asked before that. :) Thanks for the
info, though.. Just wish I could figure out why FASA has been claiming that
it was already out in the front of the books..
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 20:03:29 -0400
Reply-To: Thom Watson <thom@******.DIGEX.NET>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: Thom Watson <thom@******.DIGEX.NET>
Subject: Re: Gender Benders and successful players...
Once upon a time, The Deb Decker said
= >OK. I really don't want to start a flame war, but this comment sets me
= >on edge. Why "luckily"? We're talking about a game here; a game of
=
= I agree; a game of role-playing. Although the character could have
= regarded herself as lucky for not falling for someone; romantic entanglements
= just are good to have as a Shadowrunner.
I assume you mean "aren't good." That's certainly a reasonable reading
of the original sentence on it's own, one I admittedly missed. I
think, though, the context in which it was placed lends it a little
less innocence; I could be wrong, certainly.
= I think you grossly misread the statement. I didn't see anything homophobic
= at all. Unless you assume that someone is homophobic because they are
= uncomftorable playing an orientation that isn't there's, which you gripe
= about below.
Actually, I'm not uncomfortable playing an orientation which isn't
mine, and I don't think I implied that. In fact, I do so quite
frequently, and often by choice. I even said that I would not
consider it "unlucky" to have a character with a romantic entanglement
with a gender to which I, a player, am not oriented. I am, however,
angry that in certain circumstances I am forced to play an orientation
that isn't mine, if I wish to play at all.
= >Oh, and Robert, you said you'd never met a male who could play a woman
= >without reducing her to an effeminate wimp or a slut. Well, say hello.
=
= I can see the cyberego gently being stroked by an arm linked mysteriously
= to you account. :)
:) Heh. I spent an awful lot of years downplaying my strengths and
being a doormat. Just because I know what some of those strengths are
now, and am proud of them, doesn't mean that I'm not equally aware of
some of my weaknesses. They just weren't germane to this conversation.
= I'm glad your GM finds your role-playing commendable. But I cannot
= abide anyone who limits the choice of play; why doesn't he try to help
= other interested players figure out how to better their "performance"?
= THAT's a fascist GM.
This is one of the hazards of electronic communication. I can't
possibly convey in a few words the nuances and details and history of
my gaming group. I disagree with the assessment that my GM is fascist;
that assessment, though, is understandable based on the little
information I've given you about him, me or our group. Basically,
we've all agreed that some strictures like this are worthwhile to keep
out bad stereotypes that we as a group feel detract from our enjoyment
of the game.
I also question your assessment that you "cannot abide anyone who
limits the choice of play." Really, now, it's not that farfetched that
someone might want to play a character that for some reason makes some
or all of the other players extremely uncomfortable or superfluous. Is it
unreasonable to suggest that some guidelines for a mutually enjoyable
gaming experience does not constitute fascism? Examples range from the
oft encountered to the grotesquely overstated :) Would you allow a
magically active, vampire adept in your Shadowrun campaign, if
everyone else played a normal character? Would you accept a gamer's
portrayal of a black superhero as an eye-rolling, watermelon-eating,
step and fetch it? We just draw our lines in different places, I suspect.
In fact, though, we are going to be playtesting some material in which
all the characters will be female, so we will be dealing with our
individual performances and handling of stereotypes to some
degree. However, this is not something we would likely do in our
regular campaign.
= >thought I was a straight man (not a role I put my best efforts into),
= >it's not much of a stretch to play another role as alien to me as that
= >one is.
=
= Equating homosexuality with another race. *SHEESH* Now there's a stereotype
= for you.
Actually, I equated the *playing* of *hetero*sexuality, for me, with
the *playing* of another race. And what I was really talking about was
the comparable difficulty of understanding and protraying believably
mindsets different from my--male, human and homosexual--norm. And
since when is the equation of homosexuality with nonhuman races a
stereotype? Honestly, it's one with which I'm quite unfamiliar.
= >And Deb Decker, IMO, gay men *do* play more believable female
= >characters, *in general* and *in my personal experience* (YMMV). I
=
= Great. In my experience, the last post indicated that straight men could
= not play women well at all and that is bullshit.
All generalizations are bullshit.
:)
You're right, though, an implication that *no* straight man can play a
woman well is bullshit. I'm certainly right with you in agreement on
this one. As I said, there are exceptions. But in my experience, which
may not at all be representative of gamers as a whole, the straight
men overwhelmingly have tended to play on the worst stereotypes of
women. Even more surprising, this happened among men from whom I would
*not* have expected such acting out; in their daily lives they seem to
be respectful and understanding of women in a multitude of roles, not
only as sluts or weaklings. *shrug* Humans are unfathomable.
= >don't suggest it's anything genetic or inherent, but perhaps just a
= >willingness to look past what many straight men want women to be and
= >see them as they really are. There are exceptions, of course.
=
= And I believe I am one of them, though I can't say Jaez is a great example
= because she IS such a stereotypical Valeey Girl (which is most definitely
= NOT what I seek in romantic company). Actually, some of my best friends have
= been women, with no romance to the relationship at all. I think that counts
= for something along the lines of seeing women as people and not meat.
Well, then maybe you deserve one of those medals you so graciously
awarded me. :)
Seriously, I did say that not all straight men are like this. I
haven't implied anything about your or any individual man's particular
treatment of or thoughts about women. Some of *my* best friends have
been straight men, but I wouldn't want my husband to marry one. :)
=====
And to the gentleman who sent me e-mail telling me to "find a
woman"... if I needed such advice, it seems unlikely you'd be able to
help. Find a brain, ok?
--
Thom Watson thom@******.digex.net
"What sane person could live in this world and not be crazy?"
--Ursula K. LeGuin
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1993 00:09:14 GMT
Reply-To: Hordur Johannsson <hordjo@*******.IS>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: Hordur Johannsson <hordjo@*******.IS>
Subject: Kage93
I was wondering if anyone could send me the Kage93, i tryed to
get it from teetot.acusd.edu, but the archive was broken, or that was
the error i got when i tryed to unpack kage93.lzh
email: hordjo@****.ismennt.is
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 19:34:11 CST
Reply-To: "The Great Gonzo `8r) (Ben Granzeau P304)"
<P304%NEMOMUS.BITNET@*******.MISSOURI.EDU>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: "The Great Gonzo `8r) (Ben Granzeau P304)"
<P304%NEMOMUS.BITNET@*******.MISSOURI.EDU>
Subject: What would you do?
Um, if someone got busted by the police in SR, how would you attempt to
bust them out?
The Great Gonzo
`8r)
The Not-So-Great-As-Sir-Launcelot Gonzo `8r) Upperclass Twit and geek.
Barney must die!! Slowly and Painfully. ^----Gonzo Smiley
"Full goofy mode : On!!!" -- Me. (Just humor him. He might go away.)
"I was cured, alright."--Alex, _A Clockwork Orange_
"What do you thinks, sirs?"--Joel, Mystery Science Theatre 3000
"No sir, I didn't like it."--Mr. Horse, R&S-Ask for it by name!!
~!@#$%&*()_+`-=;'\:"|,./?~!@#$%&*()_+`-=;'\:"|,./?~!@#$%&*()_+`-=;'\:"|,./?
All complaints to my puppeteer. I don't always agree with myself...
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 20:55:03 EDT
Reply-To: Richard Pieri <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: Richard Pieri <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
In-Reply-To: "GCS/MU d? -P+ c++ l u-(+) e+(++) m(+)(*)@ s/+ n-(---) h f+@ w+
t+ r+ y+(**)"
's message of Wed, 27 Oct 1993 20:51:58 -0400 (EDT)
<01H4MCRW0PYQ99GOS1@****.STEVENS-TECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: More Diceless Shadowrun
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu>
Sender: ratinox
Organization: 3WA, Boston Office. Or Nu Meta Chi. Take your pick.
X-Attribution: rat
X-Get-A-Clue: Have two, they're small.
X-Signature-Virus-Protection: Version 1.51
>>>>> On Wed, 27 Oct 1993 20:51:58 -0400 (EDT), "GCS/MU d? -P+ c++ l
u-(+)
>>>>> e+(++) m(+)(*)@ s/+ n-(---) h f+@ w+ t+ r+ y+(**)"
>>>>> <JMCPHERS@****.STEVENS-TECH.EDU> said:
JMCPHERS> uz4gRXhhbXBsZToNCrs+ICANCrs+ICAgU2FtIHRoZSBTYW11cmFpIGlzIGluIGEg
Thanks for the feedback. I think....
--
Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> Northeastern's Stainless Steel Rat
ask about rat-pgp.el v1.63 PGP Public Key Block available upon request
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The only way to deal with temptation is to yield to it. --Oscar Wilde
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 20:51:58 -0400
Reply-To: "GCS/MU d? -P+ c++ l u-(+) e+(++) m(+)(*)@ s/+ n-(---) h f+@ w+
t+ r+ y+(**)" <JMCPHERS@******.BITNET>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: "GCS/MU d? -P+ c++ l u-(+) e+(++) m(+)(*)@ s/+ n-(---) h f+@ w+
t+ r+ y+(**)" <JMCPHERS@******.BITNET>
Subject: Re: More Diceless Shadowrun
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=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 20:58:42 -0400
Reply-To: "GCS/MU d? -P+ c++ l u-(+) e+(++) m(+)(*)@ s/+ n-(---) h f+@ w+
t+ r+ y+(**)" <JMCPHERS@******.BITNET>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: "GCS/MU d? -P+ c++ l u-(+) e+(++) m(+)(*)@ s/+ n-(---) h f+@ w+
t+ r+ y+(**)" <JMCPHERS@******.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Misc Stuff
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Cg0K
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 21:01:51 -0400
Reply-To: "GCS/MU d? -P+ c++ l u-(+) e+(++) m(+)(*)@ s/+ n-(---) h f+@ w+
t+ r+ y+(**)" <JMCPHERS@******.BITNET>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: "GCS/MU d? -P+ c++ l u-(+) e+(++) m(+)(*)@ s/+ n-(---) h f+@ w+
t+ r+ y+(**)" <JMCPHERS@******.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Misc Stuff
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=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 20:35:06 GMT
Reply-To: RJR96326@****.UTULSA.EDU
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: The Deb Decker <RJR96326@****.UTULSA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Were you not listening
>Yeah, you did, but I had already asked before that. :) Thanks for the
>info, though.. Just wish I could figure out why FASA has been claiming that
>it was already out in the front of the books..
FASA printed a page that lists all there new books that come out in roughly
the same time period. For instance, Tir Nan Og and Corp Shadowfiles were
listed on cover pages a couple of weeks before they were actually released.
AWC54 is coming soon; it's probably faced another hold-up at the printers, as
so many gamebooks do.
BTW, it's only autumn now, so just wait a couple o' months. :)
J Roberson
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 20:41:04 -0500
Reply-To: Christina Johnson <johnson1@**.UWP.EDU>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: Christina Johnson <johnson1@**.UWP.EDU>
Subject: genders
Mmm... I know, this is Shadowrun.
But: I was DMing a campain, and a friend of mine was playing a female with
a charisma of 18. Now, *I* was offended by the way he was playing her, as
were most of the people in the room. She ended up with Breasts of 18, or
something like that, as she had a personality of 3. Anyway, to get even
with him, I pointed out to his older brother (who was playing the game for the
first time in his life) that Bryan was playing the most attractive female
David's little halfling, Fritz, had ever seen. David turned out to be an
excellent role-player, and made Bryan blush more than once. He got the
short end of the sexist thing, when he'd been making everyone else in
the room feel uncomfortable all night. Bryan never played Claurisa again.
Still, all his characters since rarely do anything but shop. I don't
role-play with Bryan much anymore. :-/
Christina M. Johnson, University of WI, Parkside, Kenosha johnson1@**.uwp.edu
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"So this is the Sword of Immortality, huh? What's it doing in a crypt?"
-John S. Novak III
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 20:59:56 GMT
Reply-To: RJR96326@****.UTULSA.EDU
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: The Deb Decker <RJR96326@****.UTULSA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Gender Benders and successful players...
>Really, now, it's not that farfetched that
>someone might want to play a character that for some reason makes some
>or all of the other players extremely uncomfortable or superfluous. Is it
>unreasonable to suggest that some guidelines for a mutually enjoyable
>gaming experience does not constitute fascism? Examples range from the
>oft encountered to the grotesquely overstated :) Would you allow a
>magically active, vampire adept in your Shadowrun campaign, if
>everyone else played a normal character? Would you accept a gamer's
>portrayal of a black superhero as an eye-rolling, watermelon-eating,
>step and fetch it? We just draw our lines in different places, I suspect.
Vampires are illegal as player characters.
No, I wouldn't mind a magical vampire adept in a campaign, provided the
proper balancing act was done by the GM and player. While it is true that
such characters can be easily abused, they can also be role-played well.
For instance, in the upcoming GURPS Ravenloft game I'm in, I play a Vampyre
prince-no powers, just bloodlust. and a lot of psych disadvantages about
becoming a true vampire. Another PC is a werewolf; another is rather like the
classic Frankenstein monster. But they are all balanced, and the campaign is
set up that the 'combat advantages' are outweighed by the role-playing
disadvantages.
It's one thing to play a character type poorly; quite another to play an
offensive stereotype. Also, I believe that most gaming groups are made up of
friends, and that peer pressure will keep someone from playing a truly offensive
character. Call it Free-Market Gaming.
>In fact, though, we are going to be playtesting some material in which
>all the characters will be female, so we will be dealing with our
>individual performances and handling of stereotypes to some
>degree.
Good.
>However, this is not something we would likely do in our
>regular campaign.
I still think it's unfair that other players be barred from playing
females in your regular game.
>since when is the equation of homosexuality with nonhuman races a
>stereotype? Honestly, it's one with which I'm quite unfamiliar.
This is NOT a stereotype endorsed by me. I recalled Tasteless Jokes middle
school gamers made when they saw the R Talsorian blurb about "if your
players can't handle the grim future of cyberpunk, tell them to go play the
game with the happy elves" and someone made a comment about the gay and happy
fairy folk. Apologies for a crude and obscure reference.
As I was thinking about it, I realized that in most adventure games, the
little things that crop up that do mark the sexes as different are left out
as extra baggage. In Shadowrun: Mr Johnson doesn't care about your sex or race
as long as you get the job done. Contacts--depends on how you play it, but
assume your contacts won't penalize you for what you are (unless, I guess, you
were an Ork sammie with Nachtmachen and Humanis contacts). In a firefight-
bullets don't check your pants before killing you. And in the Matrix and Astral
Space, you can be whatever you want.
I think some men may overplay their female characters in an attempt to remind
everyone that they were different. I know that's how I felt sometimes playing
Jaez, because most situations, her gender didn't matter--which is the way it
should be. Thinking back to the GURPS game I mentioned, I felt like that
character was not as overplayed because I didn't have to force everyone to
remember her sex. . .there were enough role-playing encounters that made it
important to compensate.
Me, personally I like those people who are both or neither in Le Guin's books.
=====
>And to the gentleman who sent me e-mail telling me to "find a
>woman"... if I needed such advice, it seems unlikely you'd be able to
>help. Find a brain, ok?
Reminds of a story a middle-aged gay Orthodox Jew recently told me: There was
this wonderful old woman who would come up week after week at Synagogue and
describe her niece, or granddaughter or other young female relative in an
attempt at matchmaking. He declined again and again until she finally asked
him what kind of girl he was looking for and he said "actually, if you had
a nice young nephew. . ."
J Roberson
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 21:09:04 GMT
Reply-To: RJR96326@****.UTULSA.EDU
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: The Deb Decker <RJR96326@****.UTULSA.EDU>
Subject: Re: genders
>David turned out to be an
>excellent role-player, and made Bryan blush more than once. He got the
>short end of the sexist thing, when he'd been making everyone else in
>the room feel uncomfortable all night. Bryan never played Claurisa again.
Good.
>Still, all his characters since rarely do anything but shop. I don't
>role-play with Bryan much anymore. :-/
Kinda gets back to what I said about 'Free-Market Gaming"
(BTW, nice sig Christina)
J Roberson
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 22:31:35 -0400
Reply-To: Chris Siebenmann <cks@********.UTCS.TORONTO.EDU>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: Chris Siebenmann <cks@********.UTCS.TORONTO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Gender Benders
Almost anyone who's ever GM'd has had to play characters of the
opposite sex; it comes with the territory. I've seen people do it well
and I've seen people do it badly and I've seen people hit just about
every level inbetween; I think it's something one can't make general
statements about.
My (non-GM) characters seem to have run abut 40% female over the long
term. Like my male and alien characters they've had a wide variety of
attitudes; I don't generally like to play stereotyped characters,
because I find it boring. Some of them have had to be female to make
the particular character concept work, some have just sat up and said
'I'm female', and one simply had more 'female' skills than 'male' ones
(that was an Aslan in MegaTraveller).
There's a bunch of things I have to sit down and think 'how does this
affect this character?' when I build a new character; their sex just
one of them.
- cks
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 22:35:16 -0400
Reply-To: Chris Siebenmann <cks@********.UTCS.TORONTO.EDU>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: Chris Siebenmann <cks@********.UTCS.TORONTO.EDU>
Subject: The Street Samurai code of honour:
"Stay bought."
and
"Keep your word."
Your honour is your reputation; no honour, no rep, no one's going
to hire you or even tell you anything that you might wind up selling
to someone else. Loyalty, when you're being paid for it, counts.
Why 'samurai' instead of 'ronin'? Because 'samurai' is more romantic
and more people know roughly what it means. No doubt in 2050 the
Japanese of the megacorps sneer at people calling themselves street
sams; uncultured ignorant westerners and all that.
- cks
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 23:10:00 -0400
Reply-To: "GCS/MU d? -P+ c++ l u-(+) e+(++) m(+)(*)@ s/+ n-(---) h f+@ w+
t+ r+ y+(**)" <JMCPHERS@******.BITNET>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: "GCS/MU d? -P+ c++ l u-(+) e+(++) m(+)(*)@ s/+ n-(---) h f+@ w+
t+ r+ y+(**)" <JMCPHERS@******.BITNET>
Subject: Re: New thwaps
:} On Tue, 26 Oct 1993, GCS/MU d? -P+ c++ l u-(+) e+(++) m(+)(*)@ s/+ n-(---) h
f+@ w+ t+ r+ y+(**) wrote:
:}
:} > Hayden--
:} >
:} > Sorry. Not entirely my fault. I'm trying out a new editor that's
:} > supposed to do nifty things for me, but it's apparently also succeeding
:} > in garbling the messages. I only hope you can read this, as I'm
:} > not letting it word wrap, but instead doing it manually, hoping that
:} > solves the problem.
:}
:} Ok, what is happening is that your new editor is adding 8th-bit control
:} character and your mailer is thinking that it is a binary and encoding it
:} into MIME BASE64 format. Oops.
This is a test. This is a test of the emergency mailing system. This is only
a test. If this were a real emergency, this would still be in base64 format.
Translation: I think I fixed the problem, but I had to send one out to the
list to make sure. If you CAN read this, DON'T tell me.
--Short Fuse
//\\
<< >>
\\//
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1993 13:34:52 EST
Reply-To: Chris Ryan <chrisr@*******.FIT.QUT.EDU.AU>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: Chris Ryan <chrisr@*******.FIT.QUT.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: New thwaps
> Translation: I think I fixed the problem, but I had to send one out to the
> list to make sure. If you CAN read this, DON'T tell me.
ROFL. "I'm sorry, I COULDN'T read the above, so I just *had* to tell you."
Chris
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 09:46:29 +1000
Reply-To: Luke Kendall <luke@********.CANON.OZ.AU>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: Luke Kendall <luke@********.CANON.OZ.AU>
Subject: Re: Healing spell
>>>>> "RPM" == Role Playing Manager <moria@*****.eerie.fr>
>>>>> "rat" == Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
RPM> How many consecutive times is a mage able to cast an healing
RPM> spell on one person?
rat> There are two potential answers:
rat>
rat> 1) Once.
rat>
rat> 2) As many times as she likes, with a cumulative +2 to her T#s for each
rat> successive casting, just like using Skills.
Not according to the SR I rules:
p94 (Health Spells):
"Each retry at healing the same subject increases the Target Number
for the Force Success Test by +2, whether the spell was interrupted
or the Force Success Test simply scored no successes."
Which I think any reasonable person would interpret to mean that this
modifier only applies in the nominated circumstances.
Of course, you only shift the Wound Category down one level by healing,
and it takes a long time relative to a combat turn.
luke
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1993 00:45:28 CDT
Reply-To: "Chad S. Mawson" <csm2747@************.EDU>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: "Chad S. Mawson" <csm2747@************.EDU>
Subject: Men playing Women or vice versa
I thought I'd throw my two cents in since I've read lots of good
accounts so far. I was a relative newcomer to a group, and after
talking to most of the guys I found this guy Jeff - nicknamed "Bone"
this guy could get dates easily, dressed real slick, the whole
schmear... We started playing and his character turns out to be a
woman. I was a tad surprised, but as we got on with the game I found
that none of our characters gender's had diddly to do with the game. In
role-playing, his manner was great. He played his character very well,
and SUBTLETY (or whatever) very smooth and kept gender on the back
burner. If a player can play the opposite sex _without_ playing like
it's the opposite sex unless it's called for, I believe that works the
best.
csm2747@******.nebrwesleyan.edu
+-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
| Chad Mawson *-* Nebraska Weseleyan University <> Lincoln, Nebraska *-* |
+-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1993 00:51:26 CDT
Reply-To: George Campbell <daishi@*******.EECS.NWU.EDU>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: George Campbell <daishi@*******.EECS.NWU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Misc Stuff
> >>>>> "JM" == Joe McNulty <mcnultyj@****.jmb.com>
writes:
>
> JM> The first thing to come up was Full defense melee option. I said in
> JM> full defense you cannot do damage to the opponent, even if you exceed
> JM> the opponents successes with you un/armed combat test. The book is
> JM> rather gray on this point. Depending how you read it, it could go
> JM> either way. My group agreed on the point, but I thought I'd see how you
> JM> guys play it.
>
> You are correct. Full defense is just that, *full* defense; you are not
> attacking, so you can't do any damage.
>
Though I can't say what's in the rules since I'm only vaguely familiar with
them, but from personal experience taking jujitsu you are hurt more by
defending then by attacking. So it's possible to do damage in full defense -
just not likely.
--
_/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/ _/ _/_/_/ | Daishi@***.edu
_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ | Drubar@******** Realms
_/ _/ _/_/_/ _/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/ | Midnight@*********
_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ | Midnight@************
_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/ _/ _/_/_/ | Midnight@****** Realms
"You've got to risk losing, you've got to risk everything..."
- Searching for Bobby Fisher
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1993 08:38:41 PRT
Reply-To: Nightfox <DJWA@******.UCC.NAU.EDU>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
Comments: To: shadowrn@*****.nic.surfnet.nl
Comments: Resent-From: Fahnuir <FAHNUIR%PTEARN.BITNET@*******.CNUSC.FR>
Comments: Originally-From: Nightfox <DJWA@******.UCC.NAU.EDU>
From: Fahnuir <FAHNUIR%PTEARN.BITNET@*******.CNUSC.FR>
Subject: AGE
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Actually, I believe about 55 is the normal world wide expected life span at thi
>moment. Does that mean that people don't live past 55? No it means that ther
>e is high infant mortality and also a high death rate in less developed over
>populated areas - like the barrens.
>
>Remember the average life expectancy of a ganger is less than 24 folks.
Who said that the life expectancy of a ganger is less thean 24?
Fahnuir
In your room, i feel you and i just can't get enough...
Judas
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1993 02:54:42 CDT
Reply-To: George Campbell <daishi@*******.EECS.NWU.EDU>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: George Campbell <daishi@*******.EECS.NWU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Misc Stuff
In-Reply-To: <9310280554.AA21965@****.eecs.nwu.edu>; from "George
Campbell" at
Oct 28, 93 12:51 am
> Though I can't say what's in the rules since I'm only vaguely familiar with
> them, but from personal experience taking jujitsu you are hurt more by
> defending then by attacking. So it's possible to do damage in full defense -
> just not likely.
I didn't phrase this very well - I meantosay that the defender does as much
damage in a hand to hand attack if not more. (My forearms killed me for the
first month from doing repeated Taisubaki (SP!?!) sets, luckily we've moved
onto rolls now. :-)
--
_/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/ _/ _/_/_/ | Daishi@***.edu
_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ | Drubar@******** Realms
_/ _/ _/_/_/ _/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/ | Midnight@*********
_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ | Midnight@************
_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/ _/ _/_/_/ | Midnight@****** Realms
"You've got to risk losing, you've got to risk everything..."
- Searching for Bobby Fisher
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1993 08:43:52 PRT
Reply-To: HAHN@***.EDU
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
Comments: To: Shadowrn%hearn.bitnet@******.cuny.edu
Comments: Resent-From: Fahnuir <FAHNUIR%PTEARN.BITNET@*******.CNUSC.FR>
Comments: Originally-From: Stefan Hahn <HAHN@***.EDU>
From: Fahnuir <FAHNUIR%PTEARN.BITNET@*******.CNUSC.FR>
Subject: errata
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>My 4 ha'penniies worth:
>Samurai Honor Code: Are we talking Bushido, "the Way of the Warrior," here?
> I gotta tellya, the samurai I've seen in SR have been money-grubbing
>mercs who'll do anything to get the job done and make a dishonest buck,
>including ripping off their Mr. Johnsons. Picture this:
>*Scene of Bloodwing and Spectre (our cybered-to-the-gills combat monster)
>having a standoff on a hospital roof, 1 a.m.*
>Spectre: "Shall we do it the old-fashioned way, then? Mano-a-mano?"
>Bloodwing: "Very well. Let's do it."
>*both characters take off their Incredibly Heavy Weapons TM and draw katanas.*
>Spectre: "We thought you were dead."
>Bloodwing: (wry smile) "It seems you were mistaken."
>Spectre: "Perhaps. But not for long."
>*the two circle each other like great cats, waiting for an opening.*
>Spectre: "Before I kill you, there's something you should know..."
>Bloodwing: "Yes?"
>Spectre: "You always were a moron."
>*Whips out his concealed Ares Squirt and plasters Bloodwing with Hyper right i
>n the face, while two of my city spirits (I was hiding behind some air
>conditioning machinery on the roof) latch onto him. He didn't last long.*
>
>Gender Benders: Some of my friends hate it when guys play gals or vice-versa,
>but I don't have a problem with it, IF YOU CAN DO IT CONVINCINGLY. I can't
>stand the stereotypical Butch Bitch w/ Big Blaster. Booorrring. If, on the
>other hand, you can get more in touch with your female side, (or male, if
>you're not) There's no reason you can't play a convincing Member Of the
>Opposite SEx (M.O.O.S.E.), Alien, Small Furry Creature From Alpha Centauri...
>\\\You just have to learn to look at things from a new point of view\\\
I believe that no Shaman can have more than one spirit under his control at
the same time (See page 65 on The Grimoire 2nd Edition - Multiple Spirits in on
e domain.).
I'd like to ask one thing now. Does anyone has any idea of how Maria Mercuria
l music sounds like? Is it like Maddona's music?(Well, i hope not!) Is it some
thing like Nirvana?(I don't think Nirvana wouldn't sound that good in the voice
of a woman.) Is it like Pet Shop Boys?(Naaaa...) Is it like Guns n' Roses (G
od wouldn't be so unfair to 2053 people as HE was to us.). Is it like Billy Ido
ll's last album?(That album of Cyberpunk only has the name...) Is it like Metta
lica? Depeche Mode? The Cure? KLF? New Kids on the Block?(*gasp*) Napalm Death?
DRI? 2 Unlimited? Doors? Beattles? Paula Abdul? Enya? Digital Orgasm? Pearl Jam
? (Well... it certainly has to be te kind of music that the 'average Joe' likes
.)
What i asked for Mercurial serves as well for Something Brothers, The Elementa
ls and Concrete Dreams.
Send me a mail about this (even flames are wellcome)
Fahnuir
In your room, i feel you and i just can't get enough...
Judas
P.S.- I'm not joking! I'd really like to know how it sounds like!
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1993 03:38:14 CDT
Reply-To: George Campbell <daishi@*******.EECS.NWU.EDU>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: George Campbell <daishi@*******.EECS.NWU.EDU>
Subject: My twist on this gender thang....
Well this seems like such a popular topic that I couldn't help but pip in.
My favorite character was Midnight Storm, a herbalist in the Warhammer fantasy
role-playing system. She had jet-black hair except for a white-streak right
down the middle and an atletic frame. Sex roles never really came into play
during the campaign, but I did not play her in a masculine manner. Whether or
not that makes it a femanine manner is open to debate :-). The point is I had
fun playing her and she's still my favorite character to date.....
--
_/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/ _/ _/_/_/ | Daishi@***.edu
_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ | Drubar@******** Realms
_/ _/ _/_/_/ _/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/ | Midnight@*********
_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ | Midnight@************
_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/ _/ _/_/_/ | Midnight@****** Realms
"You've got to risk losing, you've got to risk everything..."
- Searching for Bobby Fisher
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1993 12:31:01 MEZ
Reply-To: death@***.INFORMATIK.TH-DARMSTADT.DE
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: Markus Kalb <death@***.INFORMATIK.TH-DARMSTADT.DE>
Subject: re Starting a new party
hi chummer
one advice, let your players use the Archetypes of the SR rule books
for the first two to three sessions. Then they will see if they like
to play a mage, rigger, ...... . If they do make characters now
they won't like to play them when they know the system better.
bye markus
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1993 11:54:54 GMT
Reply-To: P.C.Steele@*********.AC.UK
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: The Powerhouse <P.C.Steele@*********.AC.UK>
Subject: Mercurial and age
> Who said that the life expectancy of a ganger is less thean 24?
Nobody, I think, but it makes sense if you think about it. The streets of
2054 are dangerous places, run by the gangs. Now the funny thing about gangs is
that they are very youth orientated, based from the idea of kids rebelling (ie
the rich kid gangs), kids being bored, kids having no money, etc, etc.
I would imagine that once kids reached their early 20's they would probably
find that they don't fit in that well with the gangs anymore and so are more
likely to find alternative ways of spending their days. Wether that means find
a job, turn runner, turn squatter, turn to one of the big crime syndicates,
whatever. Those that don't leave will find themselves targets for some 'snot
nosed youth' with a flechetti one dark and dreary night in some quiet alley.
Of course, there will always be exceptions.
Maria Mercurial: I always think she sounds something like Whitney Houston.
After watching Bodyguard where she was dressed in that silver costume I thought,
wow, someone else thinks so as well :)
Phill.
--
Phillip Steele - Email address P.C.Steele@***.ac.uk | An Uzi a day keeps the
Department Of Electrical & Electronic Engineering | politicians at bay O O
University Of Newcastle Upon Tyne, England | |
Land of the mad Geordies | The Powerhouse \_/
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1993 13:24:42 MEZ
Reply-To: death@***.INFORMATIK.TH-DARMSTADT.DE
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: Markus Kalb <death@***.INFORMATIK.TH-DARMSTADT.DE>
Subject: re Starting a new party
hi chummer
for the first adventure you did better not play a fasa adventure,
because of all the rule learning no one could realy enjoy the adventure.
thry something simple with some more fight's. example:
the pc are hiered by a small corp. for bodyguard service. to make the job
they have to escort on of the corporation managers to an aera out of the usa
(afrika would be best). the corporation could have some problems with
some local mil. groups. and the players are hiered for the job not only
to protect the manager but also to convince the locals to not make any problems.
shortly before the pc arrive in afrika some of the local groups attack the
corporation building (30 floors) and badly damaged it. The manager then ordered
some of the players to assist in the reperation procces for the building.
thry everything to split up the group. some sams and a mage have to stay with
the manager, while the decker tries to fix the damaged computer system.
some pc with biotech and mages with heal spells are ordered to
help the wounded. other pc with tech skills have to repair the elevators
(but not all are damaged). .........
then when the party is split of, have some of the locals attack the building
again. let the locals have a very powerful jammer, this will bring more
confusion under the pc.
if the pc are good and clever they will use the computer to display floor
maps, to block the elevators, or call for local help.
just some idears wich i have in the moment. (please mail me some if you have
one).thry to add some one idears. (maybe i post something later, Monday)
after this little shout outs you coulod play the fasa DNO/DNA adventure,
or the mercurial or you could even start to play harlequin . but play
non of the following UB, Queen eu?????, ??????.
bye markus
The Great Nighthawk The Shadow In The Seattle Night
Khan of Clan Wolf,
Commander of the Timber Wolf Death Hand(Commanding Trinary Beta Galaxy)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1993 12:34:16 GMT
Reply-To: P.C.Steele@*********.AC.UK
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: The Powerhouse <P.C.Steele@*********.AC.UK>
Subject: Mail on full auto
Whoah, what's 'appenin ?
It's midday here, you guys should still be in bed, yet I've just had about 25
messages in 5 mins. What are they putting in the coffee over there ?
Phill.
--
Phillip Steele - Email address P.C.Steele@***.ac.uk | An Uzi a day keeps the
Department Of Electrical & Electronic Engineering | politicians at bay O O
University Of Newcastle Upon Tyne, England | |
Land of the mad Geordies | The Powerhouse \_/
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1993 12:39:17 GMT
Reply-To: P.C.Steele@*********.AC.UK
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: The Powerhouse <P.C.Steele@*********.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: What would you do?
In-Reply-To: <199310280037.AA07661@*******.ncl.ac.uk>; from "The Great Gonzo
`8r)" at Oct 27, 93 7:34 pm
>
>
> Um, if someone got busted by the police in SR, how would you attempt to
> bust them out?
> The Great Gonzo
Bribe the police, or hit the van they are in when being transported to jail.
Another way is have a mage with lotsa powerful elementals go in astrally and
get the elementals to beat up the guards etc.. Watch out for the magical
security though.
Phill.
--
Phillip Steele - Email address P.C.Steele@***.ac.uk | An Uzi a day keeps the
Department Of Electrical & Electronic Engineering | politicians at bay O O
University Of Newcastle Upon Tyne, England | |
Land of the mad Geordies | The Powerhouse \_/
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1993 12:51:22 GMT
Reply-To: P.C.Steele@*********.AC.UK
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: The Powerhouse <P.C.Steele@*********.AC.UK>
> test.
> This is a test while I try to track now a loop bug
> Rob Hayden.
_____
/ \ __
/ _ \ / \
/ (0) / / \
\ ~ / / \
\_____/ __ __ \ /
/ / \ / \ \ /
/ \ / \ / \ / _______!!
/ \/ \/ \/ ( )( )( )@
/ __________/\_______/\____/\_______~~ ~~ ~~
--
Phillip Steele - Email address P.C.Steele@***.ac.uk | An Uzi a day keeps the
Department Of Electrical & Electronic Engineering | politicians at bay O O
University Of Newcastle Upon Tyne, England | |
Land of the mad Geordies | The Powerhouse \_/
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1993 13:51:39 +0100
Reply-To: Ioannis Fikouras <j07c@***.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: Ioannis Fikouras <j07c@***.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Magic Questions
Yo chummers!
First of all thanks for your views on the Tir Campaign.
So here come some more questions.
Is a peson using astral perception in anu way detectable
physicly or magically ? I mean does he has this look on his face
or maybe he keeps stumbling or something, does he give off
a special aura in asrral space.
The rules state that a person using astral peception has a
+2 to all target numbers concerning physical actions but they
dont explain why. Maybe the +2 TN is just because they cant see
that good what with all the astral images mixing up with the
physical world.
So lets hear some ideas chummers!
--
Strong am I with the Force... but not that strong!
Twilight is upon me and soon night must fall.
That is the way of things ... the way of the Force.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1993 12:57:28 GMT
Reply-To: P.C.Steele@*********.AC.UK
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: The Powerhouse <P.C.Steele@*********.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Magic Questions
In-Reply-To: <199310281254.AA12028@*******.ncl.ac.uk>; from "Ioannis
Fikouras"
at Oct 28, 93 1:51 pm
> Is a peson using astral perception in anu way detectable
> physicly or magically ? I mean does he has this look on his face
> or maybe he keeps stumbling or something, does he give off
> a special aura in asrral space.
The person is fully detectable magically, all the magician has to do is look in
astral space and they will find the astrally percieving person grinning back
at them. While perceiving you are also vulnerable to astral attack.
Physically I'd say the person looks distracted, maybe a slightly glazed look
will come over their eyes as they try to focus on two planes at once.
Phill.
--
Phillip Steele - Email address P.C.Steele@***.ac.uk | An Uzi a day keeps the
Department Of Electrical & Electronic Engineering | politicians at bay O O
University Of Newcastle Upon Tyne, England | |
Land of the mad Geordies | The Powerhouse \_/
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1993 09:02:06 -0400
Reply-To: DV82REL8 <GRAFF85@********.CORTLAND.EDU>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: DV82REL8 <GRAFF85@********.CORTLAND.EDU>
Subject: Caseless and Confused
Death writes:
>WHY did you send a coded mail to a public list ???
Head Case Replies:
Welllll, I think there is a small bug w/ the international translation
of the files. When I send two messages it seems that the encoder (7-8bit)
miss took the file for a binary and garbled the drek out of the little fragger.
Any Ways, the message dealt mostly w/ caseless ammo and its differences w/
cased ammo.
-Head Case
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1993 09:13:42 -0400
Reply-To: DV82REL8 <GRAFF85@********.CORTLAND.EDU>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: DV82REL8 <GRAFF85@********.CORTLAND.EDU>
Subject: SRSheets.ps/SREquip.ps
Does anyone have a working copy of these? Every time I try to d/l them either
my ascii buffer over flows (Reason: I am running vms and can't find good
decompressor for .Z files.) or I try do decompresss it in dos and it looks
like it is chewed up totally!
If anyone has these files and can get to a DOS based machine. Please zip them
using pkzip (or lharc either one) and use UUENCODE (either the unix version on
a unix machine or dos version) and please mail it to me:
GRAFF85@********.CORTLAND.EDU
Thank you all chum-pals alike!
C.Y.A.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1993 13:49:05 GMT
Reply-To: P.C.Steele@*********.AC.UK
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: The Powerhouse <P.C.Steele@*********.AC.UK>
Subject: Space ... The Final Frontier
I was skimming through the question and answer file someone posted the other
day when I noticed the comment from the DLoH that "what's out there" is in long
term planning. Well, why wait, I'm sure all the collective brains on this list
can come up with some ideas, hell if we make a good compilation maybe FASA
will credit 'those great guys/and gals on the internet'.
What I'm proposing is an indepth look at what is floating in the skies above
us and I raise the possibility of a moon base. Now I admit I'm no expert on
space travel or the American space program but, ahh, what the hell.
LEO's and HEO's: Low Earth Orbitals / High Earth Orbitals
The most famous of these being the Zurich-Orbital. Corp shadowfiles hints
at lots more though.
LEO: These include numerous research facilities by most of the big Megacorps
and almost certainly a fair number of goverment research stations. LEO's are
the most popular with corps and govts as they are the cheapest to reach while
offering the advantages of zero-g.
Common applications include crystal growth, it is likely that 'all' yep 'all'
major chips used in mainframes will have to to grown in zero-g. I think that's
fairly justifable as at the moment one of the biggest problems chip
manufacturers have with making chips is crystal deformities of the pure silicon.
The subject is big but believe me, it for the sheer denisty of components in the
future you're going to need flawless crystals.
Other applications would possibly cover genetic engineering where again the
crystal idea could be used (don't quote me on this though).
Now comes the interesting stuff. A LEO would make a great place to go on
holiday, floating hotels, maybe Disney has it's own zero-g fun land high in
the sky.
Mainly though in LEO because of the advantages of zero-g and the incredible
security that orbital labs offer I think you're looking mainly at big reasearch
centres.
Potential development areas: Exactly who's up there ? What are they doing ?
Will magic become a possibility in the future ? What's the position of
international goverments in LEO's.
Now we come to HEO's, notice I haven't included geostationaries, now there may
well be some but I got to thinking the geostationary position will be in much
demand from communications sattellites and probably wouldn't be a good idea.
Now HEO's are not mentioned in any FASA product but what would you get up there.
HEO's require significantly more cost to get to, so their personnel would
probably stay up there for longer. To get round this problem most of the
orbitals spin, thus simulating graivty. Now these stations can still use
zero-g for research etc as the axis around which the station spins will be
at zero-g while the outter edges will be approaching earth gravity.
Applications: How about a corp space fleet ? Could be used for the moon
base (see later). I would picture Ares to be pioneering such a move.
You could also have a space station that simply constructs other space stations,
think what more you can do with regards to civil engineering in zero-g.
Huge constructions could be moved around and put into position with relatively
little trouble. Most heavy industry applications would however be very
specialised, after all, if it can be made on Earth, then it can probably be
made cheaper as you don't have to ship all the heavy staff back via rocket /
shuttle, whatever.
What else, well if you have a permanent colony why not start developing computer
systems, software, IC, all this could be done in space under the strictest
security imaginable. Especially if the main computers were off line. Loads
more possiblities, specialised clinics, govt spy networks, in fact anything
that required top security could be placed in HEO.
TRAVEL: How do you get to the orbitals ?
To get to a megacorp research station you usually get on board a megacorp
ballasitic with strap on tanks. Because of the huge cost of these not all
Megacorps have access to as many as they would like. As it stands Ares has
by far the biggest fleet and it regularly subcontracts it's ballistics to
other corporations. The problem with this is security, as it's not the mega-
corps own ballistic they can't fully guarntee secuirty. For this reason only
low cost assets are transported to the orbitals using contracted ballistics.
Ares also operates the current shuttle lifts which are essential if you want
to get any heavy equipment into space. Again they do sub-contract but with
the same security risks. As regards sattellites most megacorps own at least
one rocket launch site though not many own shuttle capability. At the moment
only Ares is known to have such ability, if the others have it then they're
keeping mum.
How does Joe public get up there ?
Well if he's a corp employee and going to a corp reasearch establishment, no
problem. If you wanted to go to one of the public orbitals then you have to
buy tickets in advance via an Earth office, or virtually through the matrix.
You could then end up boarding either the corp's (the one that own's the
orbital you are going to) own craft, or a chartered one. In this situation
security isn't quite such a problem though there will still be stringent
weapons checks. The public orbitals would probably be low earth and be
recreational or high tech clinics.
The Moon Base:
Haven't put much thought into this. But how about the following.
Early 2020's America starts construction of a small moon habitat that will
allow 6 astronauts to stay there in preparation for the first Mars landing.
Early 2030's after a couple of succesful Mars expeditions the UCAS govt.
decides to expand the small colony into a research centre. Corps take
interest as do other friendly govts, notably Germany, Britain and Japan.
The 2030's sees the buidling of a small but truely international research
colony. The first of the intergalactic laws are passed covering things such
as murder, theft etc...
Early 2040's, the great mineral rush. Uranium, tungsten and titanium are all
disovered in large enough quantities to warrant mining. The first of the
corp only enclaves spring up. Large legal battles over mining rights. Not
resolved until 2049.
2054: At least 12 sperate self contained colonies now exist. The orginal
is still truely international with a small but powerful elected council.
Megacorps and govts squabble over mining rights still but are now more
worried about making money.
Ok, there it is. As I said the Moon Base needs a lot of work but that's what
you lot are for. :)
Phill.
--
Phillip Steele - Email address P.C.Steele@***.ac.uk | An Uzi a day keeps the
Department Of Electrical & Electronic Engineering | politicians at bay O O
University Of Newcastle Upon Tyne, England | |
Land of the mad Geordies | The Powerhouse \_/
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1993 16:14:59 GMT
Reply-To: Role Playing Manager <moria@*****.EERIE.FR>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: Role Playing Manager <moria@*****.EERIE.FR>
Subject: Maria Mercurial...
Hi Fahnuir
Once time ago, I've asked myself the same question and I've found
only one answer:
We've learnt in the Plot of Maria Mercurial's shadow that her
datajack is connected to her brain at her pleasure center ( or something
different, I don't remember), and it's not common. So, her music is
already special for the future. Moreover, I think that nobody now is
able to create cyberpunk style music ( I've never met somebody with a
datajack around a corner ), so I think that there's no references of
cyberpunk style music. ( As we are not able to make real time animation
in synthetic images like the matrix )
It's all in your imagination chummer.
Ben - NightWolf
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1993 10:45:38 -0500
Reply-To: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@*******.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@*******.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Space ... The Final Frontier
Take a good look at GURPS Terradyne. Greate ideas in there.
____ Robert A. Hayden <=> hayden@*******.mankato.msus.edu
\ /__ -=-=-=-=- <=> -=-=-=-=-
\/ / Finger for Geek Code Info <=> Veteran of the Bermuda Triangle
\/ Finger for PGP 2.3a Public Key <=> Expeditionary Force -- 1993-1951
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
(GEEK CODE 1.0.1) GSS d- -p+(---) c++(++++) l++ u++ e+/* m++(*)@ s-/++
n-(---) h+(*) f+ g+ w++ t++ r++ y+(*)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1993 15:40:00 GMT
Reply-To: What ? <MCM@***.BRIGHTON.AC.UK>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: What ? <MCM@***.BRIGHTON.AC.UK>
Subject: Perceiving
I've always had this picture of the perceiving mage's eyes rolling back,
showing only the white of the eyes and their face muscle's going slack.
This was due to the concentration being else where. This was used to
stop the mage in our group perceiving everyone we meet. Mind you, he
had become a bit paranoid about bugs *grin*. As a point, if the mage
starts perceiving all the time, have perception rolls made. People
are a bit edgy about mages and could take steps to "stop" him :)
-WHAT
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1993 17:32:03 GMT
Reply-To: Role Playing Manager <moria@*****.EERIE.FR>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: Role Playing Manager <moria@*****.EERIE.FR>
Subject: Street Ronin's Code
Hoi everybody,
Since the day I proposed the idea of a Street Samourai code,
some people like it and some people don't. While reading some sent
mails, somebody spoke of 'Ronin'. So I thought " Why not create the
archetype of a street Ronin? It can be a street samourai, with an
honor code, only applied between Ronins. So no story like "Look my
blade" and the guy pull out a predator II.
So the problem is resolved for those who don't want an code
for Samurai, and those interested by the first idea can continue.
Ben - NightWolf
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1993 13:09:27 -0400
Reply-To: DV82REL8 <GRAFF85@********.CORTLAND.EDU>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: DV82REL8 <GRAFF85@********.CORTLAND.EDU>
Subject: Got SRSheets.ps/SREquip.ps.
Thanx for all your halp out there
you fellow Shadow Runners!!
You all got a large Drek Load o' Nuyen in favors coming!!
-Dave
-Head Case
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1993 13:38:40 EDT
Reply-To: Dennis Watson <watson@*******.SCRI.FSU.EDU>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: Dennis Watson <watson@*******.SCRI.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Healing spell
In-Reply-To: <199310280340.AA17469@********.scri.fsu.edu>; from "Luke
Kendall"
at Oct 27, 93 9:46 am
A debate on how many times a person can be magically healed.
> >>>>> "RPM" == Role Playing Manager
<moria@*****.eerie.fr>
> >>>>> "rat" == Stainless Steel Rat
<ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
>
> RPM> How many consecutive times is a mage able to cast an healing
> RPM> spell on one person?
>
> rat> There are two potential answers:
>
> rat> 1) Once.
>
> rat> 2) As many times as she likes, with a cumulative +2 to her T#s for each
> rat> successive casting, just like using Skills.
>
> Not according to the SR I rules:
>
> p94 (Health Spells):
>
> "Each retry at healing the same subject increases the Target Number
> for the Force Success Test by +2, whether the spell was interrupted
> or the Force Success Test simply scored no successes."
>
This was of course the case in SR I. In SR II, the nature of these
spells has changed somewhat. You no longer heal wound catagories, but
instead each success heals one box of damage. And you only get one
attempt. If you fail, you can try again. If you get even one success,
thats it. Not unless the victim is wounded again can you heal them,
and then only to where they were when they took the new wound. One
healing, or treat, attempt per wound.
This is of course party line. If you don't like it, change it. I
myself find that it's balanced and makes the person toting the medkit
feel better about dragging the thing around :-)
--
Lord Dennis E. Watson, B.A.M.F., Master of the Cheese.
"Okay, here's the plan. First we'll try to sneak in. If that fails,
we bluff our way through. If that fails, we shoot anything that
moves, get what we want, and then shoot our way out."
"I didn't say it was a _good_ plan."
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1993 13:36:22 CDT
Reply-To: Joe McNulty <mcnultyj@****.JMB.COM>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: Joe McNulty <mcnultyj@****.JMB.COM>
Subject: Maria Mercurial
I always imagined Maria's music to be some sort of blend of New Age Jazz
and Industrial! Ok, so its as likely as the Soviet Union embracing capitalism...
Speaking of music, on my way to lunch today I stopped by Tower Records and
picked up the new Concrete Blonde, and at the counter they hand me another
CD with 6 other Conrete Blonde songs on it (such a deal, Irving!), only 1
being from the album!
So I pick up my lunch and am very interested in hearing this bonus pack, so
there I am walking with KFC in one hand, CD's in the other, and I remember that
a friend at the office has a portable CD player! So I rush back only to find
out that its broken... sob... I'll just have to wait till I get home...
Of course, I could just go out and buy one RIGHT now, and pay Downtown Chicago
prices.. yeah right...
<Joe's visit the United Audio...>
Joe: How much is that CD player?
Salesperson: Sorry sir, if you have to ask, you can't afford it.
Joe: Ok, ok, I'll take it!
Salesperson: That'll be $932.49 plus tax. Its our low end model, so there is
no warranty, and it has a tendency to skip when the earth rotates.
Joe: Uh... Visa?
Salesperson: Only if its a Gold Card.
Joe "Not-So-Public" McNulty
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1993 14:05:09 GMT
Reply-To: RJR96326@****.UTULSA.EDU
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: The Deb Decker <RJR96326@****.UTULSA.EDU>
Subject: Re: errata
Stefan:
I think the music sounds however you want it to sound, given whatever
clues you can pick up, especially regarding names. Concrete Dreams, for
instance, is probably a version of Concrete Blonde. As for Meria. . .Her
nsame makes me think of Maria Carey. Is Meria married to A Sony Exec? :)
J Roberson
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1993 14:07:33 GMT
Reply-To: RJR96326@****.UTULSA.EDU
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: The Deb Decker <RJR96326@****.UTULSA.EDU>
Subject: Re: re Starting a new party
>one advice, let your players use the Archetypes of the SR rule books
>for the first two to three sessions. Then they will see if they like
If you do that, at least re-write the Former Wage Mage. She is entirely
too feeble. Jason Carter did a good rewrite some time ago, but I don't
know if he still has a copy.
J Roberson
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1993 14:15:12 GMT
Reply-To: RJR96326@****.UTULSA.EDU
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: The Deb Decker <RJR96326@****.UTULSA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Magic Questions
> Is a peson using astral perception in anu way detectable
> physicly or magically ? I mean does he has this look on his face
> or maybe he keeps stumbling or something, does he give off
> a special aura in asrral space.
A person who is astrally projecting (PWAP)'s body is asleep; it lies on
the ground like the proverbial sack of potatoes. For someone just assensing,
They have the +2 mod you noted below. You could either have a Perception
test to notice if someone was assensing or roll if the assensing mage
blows one of his tasks because of the modifier.
Also, both states of being are discernable astrally.
> The rules state that a person using astral peception has a
> +2 to all target numbers concerning physical actions but they
> dont explain why. Maybe the +2 TN is just because they cant see
> that good what with all the astral images mixing up with the
> physical world.
You see both. Have you ever seen two video images mixed together on TV,
either accidentally or for effect? Same thing. Or, for an audio analogy, try
listening to two songs at the same time.
J Roberson
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1993 15:06:08 -0400
Reply-To: "Stephen R. Wilcoxon" <wilcoxon@****.EDU>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: "Stephen R. Wilcoxon" <wilcoxon@****.EDU>
Subject: Re: SRSheets.ps/SREquip.ps
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu,
28 Oct 93 09:13:42 EDT." <9310281319.aa05717@***.cis.udel.edu>
> Does anyone have a working copy of these? Every time I try to d/l them eithe
r
> my ascii buffer over flows (Reason: I am running vms and can't find good
> decompressor for .Z files.) or I try do decompresss it in dos and it looks
> like it is chewed up totally!
>
> If anyone has these files and can get to a DOS based machine. Please zip the
m
> using pkzip (or lharc either one) and use UUENCODE (either the unix version o
n
> a unix machine or dos version) and please mail it to me:
I've got them both sitting right here on my account (in zipped format). It
makes a 220k zip-file and so will have to be split after it's uuencoded.
The easiest thing to do is to use the split option of uuexe520 (or 521) for
DOS - if you don't have it, you can get it from ftp.ucsc.edu in
/PC/vgaplanets-3.0... Let me know if you haven't gotten a copy of the ps
files yet from someone else and I'll jump over to campus and shoot them
over to you...
Twilight
The Crystal Wind is the Storm, and the Storm is Data, and the Data is Life.
-- The Player's Litany
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1993 14:27:38 -0500
Reply-To: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@*******.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@*******.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: Re: SRSheets.ps/SREquip.ps
Why don't you contact Jerry Stratton at teetot and see if you can put
them on his FTP site along witht he NAGEE and other stuff.
____ Robert A. Hayden <=> hayden@*******.mankato.msus.edu
\ /__ -=-=-=-=- <=> -=-=-=-=-
\/ / Finger for Geek Code Info <=> Veteran of the Bermuda Triangle
\/ Finger for PGP 2.3a Public Key <=> Expeditionary Force -- 1993-1951
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
(GEEK CODE 1.0.1) GSS d- -p+(---) c++(++++) l++ u++ e+/* m++(*)@ s-/++
n-(---) h+(*) f+ g+ w++ t++ r++ y+(*)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1993 16:13:33 -0400
Reply-To: Mark Imbriaco <mai@**.ODU.EDU>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: Mark Imbriaco <mai@**.ODU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Magic Questions
In-Reply-To: <9310281915.AA04733@*************.cs.odu.edu>
On Thu, 28 Oct 1993, The Deb Decker wrote:
> > Is a peson using astral perception in anu way detectable
> > physicly or magically ? I mean does he has this look on his face
> > or maybe he keeps stumbling or something, does he give off
> > a special aura in asrral space.
>
> A person who is astrally projecting (PWAP)'s body is asleep; it lies on
> the ground like the proverbial sack of potatoes. For someone just assensing,
> They have the +2 mod you noted below. You could either have a Perception
> test to notice if someone was assensing or roll if the assensing mage
> blows one of his tasks because of the modifier.
>
> Also, both states of being are discernable astrally.
>
> > The rules state that a person using astral peception has a
> > +2 to all target numbers concerning physical actions but they
> > dont explain why. Maybe the +2 TN is just because they cant see
> > that good what with all the astral images mixing up with the
> > physical world.
>
> You see both. Have you ever seen two video images mixed together on TV,
> either accidentally or for effect? Same thing. Or, for an audio analogy, try
> listening to two songs at the same time.
>
Yeah, but he asked about Astral PERCEPTION, no Projection.. :)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1993 16:58:58 -0400
Reply-To: "GCS/MU d? -P+ c++ l u-(+) e+(++) m(+)(*)@ s/+ n-(---) h f+@ w+
t+ r+ y+(**)" <JMCPHERS@******.BITNET>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: "GCS/MU d? -P+ c++ l u-(+) e+(++) m(+)(*)@ s/+ n-(---) h f+@ w+
t+ r+ y+(**)" <JMCPHERS@******.BITNET>
Subject: Re: New thwaps
:} > Translation: I think I fixed the problem, but I had to send one out to the
:} > list to make sure. If you CAN read this, DON'T tell me.
:}
:} ROFL. "I'm sorry, I COULDN'T read the above, so I just *had* to tell you."
:}
:} Chris
Aaargh. THWIP. THWIP. THWIPPITY THWIP.
(sound of getting pummeled by a HOT wet carp.)
--Short Fuse
//\\ Jim McPherson
<< >> JMCPHERS@****.stevens-tech.edu
\\// Randomizing randomness for a better random day.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1993 16:46:47 -0600
Reply-To: MAXIM@****.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: "Ahern T. Stephan" <MAXIM@****.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: Shadowrun: Fantasy or Cybepunk
I have seen items refering to Shadowrun as a Fantasy RPG. I disagree with
this misnomer. I consider Shadowrun to be of the Cyberpunk genre. Granted it
does incorporate some mechanics often associated to fantasy rpg's, but
that does not make it fantasy. Am I the only one that thinks this way?
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1993 17:34:54 -0400
Reply-To: "Stephen R. Wilcoxon" <wilcoxon@****.EDU>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: "Stephen R. Wilcoxon" <wilcoxon@****.EDU>
Subject: Re: SRSheets.ps/SREquip.ps
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu,
28 Oct 93 15:06:08 EDT." <9310281537.aa19604@*****.udel.edu>
> I would like to have that material too, but i must say that i really coul
dn
> 't understand almost anything about that that thing of oversomething and asci
i
> and even less about unix stuff. I have zip, unzip and unzip2 but i don't know
i
> f that would be enough to make use of the file with the character sheets.
> I have a 486DX but i'm only starting now to learn about computer stuff *sham
e*
> . Could you explain me what i need to do to have those zip files? You'l have
to
> explain it as if i was a baby.
Well, first thing to try is to contact the guy that originally wanted them
(as someone else sent them to him already) and see if he has them readily
available (I have to find a PC in the lab to FTP the files from my account
and uuencode them on the PC and re-upload them)... If he doesn't have them
easily accessible, let me know...
As far as what to do:
1) do you know how to ftp? if so get uuexe520.zip (or is it .exe?) from
ftp.ucsc.edu in PC/vgaplanets-3.0. If not, it shouldn't be a problem to
find someone locally to explain it.
2) I'll send the uuencoded file parts to you, then you download them to
your PC, then run uudecode -? (I can't remember what the switch is to tell
it the file is in pieces) and voila - you now have the zip file...
Twilight
The Crystal Wind is the Storm, and the Storm is Data, and the Data is Life.
-- The Player's Litany
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1993 18:34:34 -0400
Reply-To: Mark Imbriaco <mai@**.ODU.EDU>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: Mark Imbriaco <mai@**.ODU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun: Fantasy or Cybepunk
In-Reply-To: <9310282149.AA06084@*****.cs.odu.edu>
On Thu, 28 Oct 1993, Ahern T. Stephan wrote:
> I have seen items refering to Shadowrun as a Fantasy RPG. I disagree with
> this misnomer. I consider Shadowrun to be of the Cyberpunk genre. Granted it
> does incorporate some mechanics often associated to fantasy rpg's, but
> that does not make it fantasy. Am I the only one that thinks this way?
NO! Most assuredly, you are not the only one who thinks this way..
ShadowRun is most definitely first, and foremost, a CyberPunk game.
True, it does have a bit of magic and metatypes mixed in, but it
is still a Cyberpunk game..
Mark
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1993 17:46:56 -0500
Reply-To: BLAZE@****.WINONA.MSUS.EDU
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: Jake Blaze Ward <BLAZE@****.WINONA.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: Re: re Shadowrun: Fantasy or Cyberpunk
Ok...I guess I worded it wrong. What I meant was that, for me, Shadowrun's
magic system is a very big part. It IS a Cyberpunk game mainly, but without
the magic, that is all that it is. I love the way they work magic, and taking
that away (exiting the atmosphere and such) would take alot out of the game.
This is what I meant. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
"Dammit! There's another Demi-Lich in the Donation Room again! And NO! I will
not fix it this time!"
Lazy Dragon, former assassin of Perilous Realms.
Jake Blaze Ward.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1993 19:03:34 -0400
Reply-To: DV82REL8 <GRAFF85@********.CORTLAND.EDU>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@*****.BITNET>
From: DV82REL8 <GRAFF85@********.CORTLAND.EDU>
Subject: Person asking about ps files...
I am the guy who started this "cyber brawl." I have both of the files
uuencoded and ready to unzip. You can get uuencode/uudecode (com file version
which is very small) on anonymous FTP from nic.switch.ch in the directory
/software/msdos/starter/.
Mail me when you get these files (they are dos based in case you missed what
directory they were in). I will send you them in the mail (I just hope that
you can handle like a 200kb file). If your account cannot handle it I will
break it into smaller chunks and mail it to you, then all you will have to do
is cut and paste the chunks. The decoding part is simple. Then just unzip it
w/ pkunzip v2.04g (i think). The files are ascii so becareful to d/l them
ascii so that you can decompress them w/o killing them.
-Dave
-a.k.a. Head Case
graff85@********.cortland.edu
