| From: | Unknown sender |
|---|---|
| Subject: | None |
| Date: | Unknown time and date |
>Stagiing grenade blasts makes them _much_ more nasty as room clearence
>weapons, in fact what with the overdamage rules, a grenade with a little
>bit of over-pressure can chew anyone up to instant small pieces.
Yep, sure can. My group affectionatly calls this the Chunky Salsa Effect :)
>My problem is when a timed grenade lands, and everyone runs away,
>but still gets caught in the burst? Surely the changing position of
>a target should invalidate those successes?
I would say the successes stand. Perhaps with a good throw the thrower put
the victem in a bad spot to get cover.
>What successes do you use to stage up mines?
<snip some options>
I would say make the demolitions role when someone steps on the mine. This
makes it easier to keep track of. (thus something like a "Rating 5 mine
field)
Billy(P. Adept gunslinger): "I'll only fight the dragon if you bring
the Panther Cannon."
Kernal(S. Sam): "Why's that?"
Billy: "The Dragon will eat you first."
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 15:15:16 -0400
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Menard Steve <menars@***.UMONTREAL.CA>
Subject: New spell, comments?
OK, like some people advised me, I'll be posting some of the stuff
I invented, mainly a couple of spells, an Phys. Ad. power and some tech.
**************************************************************
*** The material contain there-in is of my own creation ***
*** If it violates copyrights or anything, please advise ***
*** me and I will retract it as soon as possible ***
**************************************************************
New Spell :
Purpose : Damaging Manipulation
(Elemental) Sheath
------------------
This spell "encases" a specific melee weapon in a sheath of elemental
matter(energy). This increases the effectiveness of the weapon against just=
about any target. Furthermore most elemental effects count against most
elemental's weaknesses without further cost.
This spell increases the power of any melee weapon other than
mono-whips and stun baton by one for every 2 successes generated at spellca=
sting
. Furthermore some elemental effect will increase their damage level agains=
t
some elementals(as noted in individual description). Lastly a character can=
choose to reduce his successes by 2 and cause the secondary elemental effec=
t
(specified in each desciption). If the character does not score at least 2=
successes, his attack becomes a clear miss.
Type : Physical Duration : Sustained target : 4 + weapon's reach
Drain [(F/2)+2]M Range : Touch
Note : Touch is required only as casting, afterward the weapon must
within a range of 2XCaster's Magic.
***************************************************************************=
*
Well, this is the first. I'd like to know what you think of it.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-
--- |\_/| Still The One and Only Wolfbane! --=
-
--- |o o| " Hey! Why ya lookin' at me so weird? Ain't ya 'ver seen a --=
-
--- \ / decker witha horn ?" --- Scy, Troll decker with a Cý =
---
--- 0 Steve Menard menars@***.UMontreal.Ca --=
-
---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 14:23:36 -0700
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Adam Getchell <acgetche@****.UCDAVIS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Dodge
In-Reply-To: <9504040057.AA15120@*******.etu.gmc.ulaval.ca>
I like the variant Dodge rules that DLOH came up with in
_Vampire_ (no, I don't like the rules system there either don't shudder ;-)
Basically, the Dodge target number depended upon how close to
cover one was. Something like 8 if you were in the open, but only 4 if
you were within easy reach of full cover. Of course this system was
based upon (non-open ended) d10's, so perhaps 6 if no cover and 2 if
right next to it. The delineation went something like:
Open/No cover
Partial cover within 2 meters
Partial cover within 1 meter/ full cover within 2 meters
Full cover within 1 meter
Already in full cover
The distance rationale was something like whether one could
simply duck back quickly or have to dive/roll/run to get there.
I would assign number like 6-5-4-3-2 for the above catagories.
Wait, doesn't that penalize the shooter twice? Once for cover
modifiers to hit and again for dodging?
My rationale is, yes, it *is* harder to hit someone only
partially exposed. Howsomever, if one believes the concept of Combat
Pool/Dodge Pool, it is certainly easier to duck something when one has
something to duck behind. And in FOF, one is slightly penalized for
using cover when returning fire anyways (1/2 of the cover modifier) I
would disagree in the case of bore-sighting, but I digress.
The above system seems to work for me. It makes gunfights what
they should be -- death to people in exposed positions, with lots of
firing from behind obstacles and a sort of sprint-and-wait tempo.
Your mileage may vary.
========================================================================
Adam Getchell "Invincibility is in oneself,
acgetche@****.engr.ucdavis.edu vulnerability in the opponent."
http://instruction.ucdavis.edu/html/getchell.html
========================================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 17:26:00 EDT
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: U-Gene <C14101@*******.BITNET>
Subject: Re: "Wimpy" Archtypes
In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 4 Apr 1995 13:40:38 -0400 from
<jormung@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Marc A Renouf:
<< snip much, much satire on the sammie vs. mage vs. phys ad >>
Bravo! <much clapping>
Marc A Renouf:
<< snip - its the good role player that role plays a character good >>
Bravo! <much clapping>
I agree full heartidly. I have been running the same campaign for 3 years
and ALL the players role play their characters well, be it mage, sammie or
whatever.
"What now?"
<< load roar >>
"How about a strategic tactical retreat?!?"
<< much retreating >>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 16:30:24 -0500
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Bob Ooton <topcat@**.CENCOM.NET>
Subject: Re: Mage bias and nobody-likes-me-I'm-a-sammie...
>I've been vaguely following this thread, since I couldn't work out what
>Bob was getting at with his first question - I'd seen no bias.
>
>Bob Ooton wrote:
>
>> The key seems to be people SAYING that Street Samurai can't be roleplayed.
>> (I know you're with me on this Michael...I just want to make another point)
>> While mages are the pinnacle of roleplaying "because they are effectively
>> limitless in power and advancement." Roleplaying = power???
>I can't imagine how you got this impression. I didn't see anyone say
>anything remotely like this. As far as I saw, the closest it came was
>people saying that mages were more deadly than samurai.
As regards "The key seems..." it's because a fair percentage of the audience
here thinks ALL samurai are just like Wolverine, except with guns thrown in.
As ar as "...mages are the pinnacle..." read some of the messages this post
is receiving and you'll get the picture.
>I think what's happened is that the thread has swerved aside; so where
>someone said `mages are better than samurai', the person meant `more
>powerful', but Bob interpreted it as `better for roleplaying'.
No, it's that people stereotype samurai's and expect them to fit that role,
if they don't, then they must be doing something wrong (or they're William
Gibson). While mages are somehow never stereotyped. Those GM's out there
who have mages in the party...look over the chars spell lists for a sec. Do
they look REALLY similar? The only time I see that not to be the case is
when it's a shaman (although usually they do it too..) or elementalists
(because the rules won't let them take a lot of the "prime spells"). Mages
start to look a whole lot alike once you've seen a couple.
-- Bob Ooton <topcat@******.net>
(Looking for support from fellow Mohi...err..samurai, but probably doesn't
need it)
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 16:42:19 -0500
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Bob Ooton <topcat@**.CENCOM.NET>
Subject: Re: "Wimpy" Archtypes
> In addition, I'll make one more comment. Whether one archtype is
>any easier to roleplay than another is another pointless argument. A
>good roleplayer will take the simplest thing and do it very well. A
>lousy roleplayer can take the most interesting thing and do it poorly.
>So it depends on the player and NOT the archtype.
EXACTLY!!! Bravo, Marc!! Kudos to ya!!
-- Bob Ooton <topcat@******.net>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 14:43:51 -0700
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Adam Getchell <acgetche@****.UCDAVIS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Ultrasounds and White Noise
In-Reply-To: <199504040242.MAA01209@******.cc.uow.edu.au>
On Tue, 4 Apr 1995, Damion Milliken wrote:
> > Robert Watkins writes:
> >
> > But it's probably there already in the ultrasound sight... I know I'd like
> > to have stereoscopic vision. (The hardware isn't too specific, BTW Keith...
> > just two sensitive, directional detectors. Look at your ears for an
> > example.)
Absolutely correct.
> ultrasound detector has sufficient detailed and sophisticated electronics
> and detectors to measure the energy of the two (or three etc depending on
This is trivial because looking at physics, we know that energy
in the (ultra)sound wave is proportionate to the intensity of the sound.
Now, the decibel scale is logarithmic but this means that one can
calculate the energy by sampling. No "sophisticated" devices at all. An
oscilloscope could tell you.
Which is why Robert is correct when he says look at your ears for
an example. There is a base intensity I0 which the human ear can detect,
something like 10E-12 Watts/meter^2. Something with 10 times as much
energy sounds about twice as loud or so, which is how the human ear can
detect a wide range of sound energies from a rock concert to a whisper.
So you see, how loud the sound is tells you its energy, automatically.
> Damion Milliken Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: adm82@***.edu.au
========================================================================
Adam Getchell "Invincibility is in oneself,
acgetche@****.engr.ucdavis.edu vulnerability in the opponent."
http://instruction.ucdavis.edu/html/getchell.html
========================================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 16:47:30 -0500
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Bob Ooton <topcat@**.CENCOM.NET>
Subject: Re: Magic or Tech...
> I don't see why people are argueing which is better, each can
>kill you just as easily as the other or save your hide. I play the street
>sams since every time I make a character we already have our fill of magic
>types and I have more fun playing the cyberpsychos 8*) We try to keep things
>balanced between the characters and if we don't the GM will (especially
>when Quicksilver is feeling truly demented some of the things he throws at
>us, my character still has nightmares 'bout some of that stuff *sigh*).
>Well 'nough babbling for now (sounds of SilverFire pulling a flame retardant
>suit)
If you look at my message which started this, you'll see that my point was
not which is better...it's that very few people see technology as anything
but something which keeps mages from going first in the combat round. And
cyberpsychosis is a great thing, my character has bouts of it with some
frequency (that's a roleplaying thing for mage/munchkins out there). Many
people (not all...just a lot) give mages pretty much free reign over the
rules while making life damn near impossible for samurai (cyberpsychosis,
while a wonderful roleplaying tool is hell on the character...a mages
biggest worry is usually "how much karma do I need for my NEXT level of
initiation?").
The point (time and again) is that it's the player who makes the character,
not the archetype...
-- Bob Ooton <topcat@******.net>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 14:56:31 -0700
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Adam Getchell <acgetche@****.UCDAVIS.EDU>
Subject: Ices Ages and neutrinos (warning: little SR relevance)
In-Reply-To: <199504040522.OAA13485@*******.cs.ntu.edu.au>
On Tue, 4 Apr 1995, Robert Watkins wrote:
> Not atmospheric physics... nuclear physics. The Sun doesn't put out enough
> neutrinos for it to be burning at full power. It is known that this happens
> in cycles corresponding to the Ice Ages. The link is implied, but probably
> strong.
The neutrino thing, eh? Niven and Barnes took a theory of
explaining the neutrino gap. Thing is, I don't tend to believe it
because the overall energy balance of the sun is fairly stable (on a
geologic timescale, anyways) and any differences tend to get time
averaged out. Here's why:
A photon emitted from the proton-proton fusion cycle at the core
takes a million years, more or less, to reach the coronasphere of the
sun. This is due to the plasma density in the sun's core and the
constant absorbsion/re-emission interactions between the hydrogen plasma
and the photons. Irregularities of shorter duration than this time tend
to get smeared out and average, more or less.
Finally, the theory about the neutrinos I'd always heard had to
do with the neutrinos having a little bit of mass. There are three
different kinds of neutrinos, but we can only detect one kind (electron
neutrinos, if I recall correctly). So we count electron neutrinos,
multiply it by three, and then compare it with the neutrino balance
produced by that amount of proton-proton fusions. However, this assumes
a massless neutrino.
A neutrino with mass can transform into other types, the other
types we can't detect. Because we only detect 1/3 of the amount we
should, it is entirely possible that the other 2/3 's are being converted
into tau and mu neutrinos, respectively.
> --
> Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
> Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
> are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
> Finger me for my geek code
>
========================================================================
Adam Getchell "Invincibility is in oneself,
acgetche@****.engr.ucdavis.edu vulnerability in the opponent."
http://instruction.ucdavis.edu/html/getchell.html
========================================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 16:57:45 -0500
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Bob Ooton <topcat@**.CENCOM.NET>
Subject: Re: Magic or Tech...
>I totally agree with Craig. I am a GM and I would transform my mage players
>into cold meat if they dare go into a corp with quickened or locked stuff.
>Megacorporation don't like these kind of intrusion...
Of course megacorporations don't like that stuff, but I wouldn't
let/couldn't see most runners ever getting into the Arcology or the Pyramid
and living more than a few seconds. Now getting into a warehouse?
Different story.
Also, quickened and locked stuff is certainly a delicious looking target to
an opposing mage, but it also keeps him from doing what he should be doing
(i.e. kill the guy who has the locks before they matter). Mages (normally)
won't have more than one (if they're lucky 2) actions and having to spend
one killing a lock is kinda suicidal. Best way to deal with locks? A
simple barrier spell. The kinda thing any kid mage could cast. It'll break
those things like kindling. And THOSE could be anywhere. (Hears mages
boo'ing and hissing when they have to face what they are usually throwing at
the opposition)
Finally, someone who knows how to balance a game <G>
-- Bob Ooton <topcat@******.net>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 17:01:18 -0500
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Bob Ooton <topcat@**.CENCOM.NET>
Subject: Re: Magic/Tech
> Mine for starters, and it hasn't been too great a problem, speed is not
> top in our game. Speed comes after stealth big deal if you have 3 actions
> if you don't know I'm coming :)
<samurai>"Did you see that sniper bullet coming from about a mile east of
us?"
<shaman>"Nope, but I did see our mage glowing away on the astral while he
was casting invisibliity"
<samurai>"Well, I cleaned up the last one..."
Just a little illustration of how those wondrous spells can look on the
astral plane. Watcher spirits (so commonly used by PC's, yet strangely
never around for the opposition) make damn fine forward observers <G>
-- Bob Ooton <topcat@******.net>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 17:08:29 -0500
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Bob Ooton <topcat@**.CENCOM.NET>
Subject: Re: Mage bias
U-Gene writes...
>As for the kung-fu Phys-ad stereotype, all I have to say is the decker of the
>party can beat him in hand-to-hand combat. Billy (the Phys A) is modeled as
>an old west gunfighter. He doesn't need that cyberware balogna. Armed with
>Ruger-Warhawks, he is probalbly the deadliest shot in the party. (I belive
>someone mentioned Phys-ads weren't as tough as sammies.
Tough? Compare Billy to Kernal. My guess is that, while Billy could well
be a better shot (i.e. higher firearms skill), a)he can't take a bullet as
well... b)doesn't have NEAR the combat pool that Kernal has... c)doesn't
have as wide a variety of skills... d)is slower... e)doesn't see as well at
night... f)anything else that will be evident once you look at the char sheets.
But you know what? I have to congratulate whoever plays Billy for being his
own character. Kudos to ya, whoever ya are!
>And someone asked how many GM's let the mages walk around with +3d6 Inc. Refl
>lock (sorry I can't quote, I lost my mail). Well I am one of them. Though,
>when the party is attacked by a strike team, the +3d6 lock is the first thing
>to go. :)
Yep, that was me asking that one. Read one of my rambles about how to solve
the lock problem cheaply and efficiently (as any megacorp would do it).
-- Bob Ooton <topcat@******.net>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 17:14:54 -0500
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Bob Ooton <topcat@**.CENCOM.NET>
Subject: Re: Magic or Tech...
>How come this argument is all combat oriented, both Mage and Sammy can be real
>interesting from a role-playing POV.
I didn't WANT it to be combat oriented. I was merely trying to explain that
people make life a whole lot easier on mages than they do on samurai.
There's a hefty bias out there and I just wanted to expose it <G>.
>I don;t wanna know who can kicks the other's ass, I wanna know who can do the
>mission, preferably with the least possible amount of violence. My PC's just
>killed two police officers in cold blood in the FRFZ, and then shot it out with
>SWAT, they're hurting, loe on ammo (there building/vehicles got destroyed), and
>they still have six days to go before they can deliver there target. If
they don't
>start thinking with their brains rather than pulling the wagons in a circle and
>waiting for the indians to ride round them (They're in the sioux sector,
and two
>PC's are indian, so no funny comments) They're going to be killed, police
>don't take cop-killers prisoner.
Good deal...too many people forget about that. But it also seems that
people forget that cops can be mages too. So next time your freindly
neighborhood spellslinger decides to confuse a group of cops so they can
slide on by, have an officer explain to him the error of his ways.
>It's not who can kick ass the best, it's the fun, and I enjoy my character's
>not getting waseted in a fire-fight.
Agreed! No-one likes to die, but if they do something stupid (shooting up
the place and casting spells while another mage can see you are two of these
examples) you're gonna end up paying for it, or at least you damn well should.
-- Bob Ooton <topcat@******.net>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 18:17:12 -0400
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: "<Great Czar>" <GreatCzar@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Magic or Tech...
Bob Ooton wrote:
>Karma may come
>easy, but try paying off a street doc bill for beta-grade 'ware.
Money is cheap, but karma is dear.
> I would
>be willing to bet that nearly everyone here has mages quickened or >locked
to
>(reaction) +4D6.
You would bet wrong:) In our games, spell locks and quickened spells are a
sure way to lose karma the hard way. One point at a time. I'm even biased in
the favor of mages, but that doesn't stop me from giving them hell when I GM.
I feel that mages should be powerful but that they should go through many year
s of hell to get there.
Great Czar
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 17:30:25 -0400
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Vincent Pellerin <Vincent.Pellerin@***.GMC.ULAVAL.CA>
Subject: Re: My questions V
>Jani Fikouras wrote
>>
> Yep, your right I was thinking more on drain :) Well I'd say the mage just
>falls unconsious and gets dumped out of the astral... But why would anyone
>choose to do stun.
>
Well, my mage as a pretty warped sense of honor and try not to kill
anybody unless he as no choice. I played him two years when is only combat
spell was stunbolt and i did go in astral combat doing stun against other
mages.
_________________________________________________________________________
| _____ "You are yong only once....... |
| \ \ / ......... but you can be immature all yourlife !" |
| \ __/ / -heard somewhere, i don'tremember |
| \ / |
| \_/ Vincent.Pellerin@***.gmc.ulaval.ca |
|________________________________________________________________________|
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 02:11:12 +0300
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: FireFly <mskarina@*****.MSCC.HUJI.AC.IL>
Subject: Re: Mage bias
In-Reply-To: <SHADOWRN%95040415372860@***.SURFNET.NL>
U-Gene wrote:
> I'll agree with you on this Bob. Street Sams can be a PILE of fun to role-
> play. A character in the campaign I'm running (They finished Harlequin and on
> their way to HB) named Kernal is an ex-marine who participated in some of the
> Euro-wars. Although this sounds like it could be a Wolverine varient, he
> isn't. He tries to come up with good plans and play them out (Hannibal from
> the A-team). Bob (the other sammie) is the far end of the scale. He does the
> craziest burned out sammie things believable. (He attacked a powereful
> initiate mage vampire with a pipe wrench. I could go on but it would be
> pointless. They add some of the best role-playing to the group.
>
That really sounds like fun!
I think the way you play the characters is more important than their
archetype, or how powerful they are.
Sure, the extent of your power (all those dice thingies), wether cybered,
magical or whatever can be crucial for your survival against the baddies,
but consider this: why survive at all?
What makes the RPG worth playing, is both the Role (=character) and the
Playing (=good story line); the Game (=combat) adds the spice element,
but IMHO it's not the most important thing about it. Otherwise, you might
as well be playing football...
This digression (relevant to one of the paralel threads, btw), leads me
to my point:
The question of what your character does for a living, pales before the
question of HOW he does that. And I'm not talking about firing the gun
vs. the power missile. What really counts is the way the character's
character is built and projected during the game.
The archetype does NOT mean you have to play it stereotypically. Why ever
should a sammie be stupid or a mage smart?
Just for the sake of argument, you can have a genius neuclear physicist (or
cyberwear expert?), heading the research staff of a major corporation, decide
one day that he's fed up with it all, quit his job (getting some high brass
really pissed at him) and pursue the much less stressful career of street
samurai, just to relax a bit (as many true geniuses, he used himself as a
guinea pig in a couple of research projects, so now he's lightly but
originally cybered).
Your mage (fill in the archetype) can be an incredibly gifted
idiot-savant, capable of learning new spells in an ultra short time, and
possessing photographic memory (A walking spell book...), but otherwise
uncapable of leading normal life or surviving the tough realities of the
SR universe (he/she should have someone to take care of him. The sammie,
perhaps?)
Whow! That sounds like a grand idea for a story, isn't it?
My own (PBEM) character is not as exotic - FireFly is an elven mage runnig
away from home and stumbling into her first run. She sometimes acts a bit
bitchy (isn't she Robert? *grin*), but she's really not as tough as she
wants ppl to believe.
I don't think I'm playing her as well as I should (a basic rule book
could also be of some help...) But hey! Give the newbie (me) a break...
Well, that was me, torchuring you with my ideas :)
FireFly
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 18:49:24 -0500
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Bob Ooton <topcat@**.CENCOM.NET>
Subject: Re: Mages vs Sams
>< stuff about Sams being of limited inteligence>
>
>> So now Samurai can't have intelligence above 3? Or is that language skills
>> above 3? (falls through another hole and ends up back in the US) Re-read
>> them thoughts too...
>
>Actually our street sams have high intelligence as they tend to put
>attributes as top priority in generation and use it for perception
>and social/knowledge areas etc...
Thank you for agreeing with me :^)
>> (has never seen an 18D powerbolt or anything like that, but has owned a
>> Panther Assault Cannon)
>
>But all Sams, Mages and Phys-ads can carry an assualt cannon - so what?
They weigh a little bit, chief. And not too many mages are going to buy up
that gunnery skill over their sorcery. The "Gandolf Schwartzenegger" bit
would be interesting if it were anything less than totally munchinous, but
if there's a decent explanation as to why the mage would want gunnery skills
and want to carry an assault cannon, then it's fair game.
>Agreed, I think Sams have more variety as they have less constraints
>on what to spend karma and generation points on instead of
>(a mage I need sorcery 6, conjuring 5, magical theory 5, firearms 3
>now what have I got left to play with?)
Thank you for explaining my last point <G>
>Actually precious few of our characters fit the archtypes.
> Our group includes:
> An elven decker/rigger
> A Physad
> A Sam (with very little Cyberware)
> A Shaman (with technical skills, such as
> electronics (and B/R), vehicle B/R etc...)
> A Former Company man
> A jack of all trades - Firearms B/R, engineering
> some decking, rigging, negotiations etc...)
We just don't use the archetypes. You make what you want to be. Archetypes
are good for quick npc's and suchlike.
I call my "samurai" a samurai because that's what he's closest to by his
history.
>The Physad is the only one who really fits any stereotypes
>and I see the 'who is best in a combat situation' as really
>artificial, use creativity to make unique interesting characters
>(as most of you probably do) with personality
YES!!! More kudos!! (breaks out a new box)
-- Bob Ooton <topcat@******.net>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 18:49:31 -0500
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Bob Ooton <topcat@**.CENCOM.NET>
Subject: Re: Magic or Tech...
>> Exactly. But beta level smartlinks and such save room so you can nab the
>> other stuff you've been wanting to add. (Wired reflexes aren't the only
>> thing out there. TopCat doesn't even have them...he uses a synaptic
>> accelerator.)
>
> I am glad we agree :) but you dont seriously beleive that 2.5K X 7 = 17.5K
>is enough nuyen to represent an unreachable goal :)
Sounds like you either misinterpretted me before or gotr crossed up. 17500
is definitely an attainable goal and well worthwhile for beta-links.
> I said "(almost)" as for the pools you are right. Well dont tell me that
>armor is a problem for your sammie - I hate to use another lame example
>but here goes - a savalette guardian does in BF mode 12D and your standard
>runner armor (armor jacket) is a measly 5 balistic this still leaves you
>an ample power of 7. Now this was only a heavy pistol !!!! And if you think
>that an armor jacket is too wimply then I am sorry - I dont like my players
>running around with full suits of heavy.
Good, because I also believe that runners shouldn't be walking around with
that on unless they're doing milspec runs. ("Okay, guys! We're going into
the bar. Everyone got their Panthers and Heavy Mil Armor? Cool...let's see
if that guy ever spills MY drink again!") Let's face it, PANICBUTTONS get
hit when people see that stuff marching around downtown.
> As for being one-on-one maybe you should consider getting some buddies ...
I do have buddies, quite a few. But corps have much larger payrolls than
me, unfortunately.
> Ok SR is on the whole very balanced - anyone can kill anyone - and its
>no use arguing which type of char is stronger. But you have to admit that
>when it comes down to doing damage (read death and destruction :) sammies
>are the absolute specialists (as a matter of fact I think you said that
>yourself in another post).
Guns and explosives and area affect spells actually get a lot more kills
than sammies. It's just that samurai tend to end up with a broader scope of
abilities at higher levels than most other char types. And variety is what
will enable a character to get out of more types of situations. Thereby, a
samurai's overall survivability is increased (hence "tougher" though I hate
to use such a general term).
> Well I think that the turnout shows I am right about this one. I can
>understand that mages can be really frustrating for the GM and the other
>players if the GM doesnt actively enforce their disadvantages - cause
>magic has some of those too :)
I've seen a few people admitting to their munchinous ways. You've not won yet!
And magic has LOTS of disadvantages! Tech has a few, but for the most part
"tech" disadvantages are the general disadvantages applied evenly to ALL
things in the game (darkness mods, etc...). It's just that a fair amount of
GM's conveniently overlook (read: never try to figure out... it's convenient
only from a player's standpoint) the disad's of magic.
Quick question... How many GM's out there (players feel free to answer for
your GM) apply lighting and cover mods to spells? They do have to see the
target, right? Mirrored glass on buildings and vehicles poses another
threat to casters.
ah well...let's see how this one fares the list...
-- Bob Ooton <topcat@******.net>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 18:49:35 -0500
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Bob Ooton <topcat@**.CENCOM.NET>
Subject: Paul J. Adam's posts in regard to the Magic/tech issue
All I gotta say is...
THANK YOU!
For taking the time to illustrate so many of the points that needed to be
made. Very well done. If possible, I would like to see the histories of
the characters in your campaign, if not the basics of the characters
themselves. Thanks once again...
-- Bob Ooton <topcat@******.net>
(feel free to email those to me so as not to flood the list)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 00:06:38 GMT
Reply-To: Paul@********.demon.co.uk
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Paul Jonathan Adam <Paul@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Magic or Tech...
> Sammies (well the ones that want to stand half a chance) tend to concentrate
> on speed and they would be crazy not to get all their cyber during char
> generation. This tends to make them extremely efficient and powerfull
> (if you wana kill someone forget magic just take out you firearm of choise
> and give him a sucking chest wound) but it also gives them no alternatives.
In one run, my mercenary and a fellow samurai had both invested in top-spec
headware radios: ten-channel commlinks, encrypt/decrypt, and a scanner
facility. The Aztechnology security come on the net saying "They're heading
for the main lab!" Tronic adds "Wearing Guard uniform!" Cue Blue-on-Blue
firefight among the groups of security converging on the lab. We opened
up on them and simultaneously came on their net saying "Undercover security!
Taking fire from the raiders! Help us! We're in Biotech, they're in the corridor
outside in stolen uniforms!"
No alternatives my fourth point of contact :-)
Oh, and we had wired up the tannoy so we could override it. Nobody had time
to do anything about that. So as well as confusing radio messages, the tannoy's
announcing that the terrorists have released VITAS-3 in the air conditioner and
can everyone please leave the building in an orderly manner?. Cue mass exodus
of screaming panicked wageslaves.
Looking back, we had borrowed some Neuromancer ideas - read the hit on the
Sense/Net pyramid. Do magicians have a monopoly on bright ideas?
The point of *good* merc/sammie/wiremonster type characters, as well as the
various flavours of physad, is that you use wit, brains and cunning to make
sure the enemy is so demoralised and depleted that they just drop their guns
and run when you shoot at them.
> I mean sure thei can raise their atributes and skills, buy some more
> skillsofts and toys - but it really doesnt matter if you got a Firearms
> skill of 9 or one of 10 - and a Savalete Guardian can kill just as easily
> as an ultra customised version of a top secret prototype of the nastiest
> weapon Ares ever made :)
Firearms-10 and 13 dice of Combat Pool means that Lynch can take a pistol where
others would want assault rifles (or assault *cannon* in some cases) with
all the benefits of being less noticed, and being more likely to be able to
keep his hardware. He doesn't like the Savalette, prefers revolvers. With his
antique .357, he gets two shots to a Savalette's one, does enough damage, and
has more intimidation value: thumbing back the hammer of a revolver is a very
scary thing when it's aimed at your left eye.
And he also plays the guitar very well: with nine dice he's approaching his
all-time idol, Jimi Hendrix. He also learned to deck after a series of accidents
and mishaps with PC and NPC deckers, ranging from the basic to the catastrophic.
> On the whole sammies are not funn to talk about because they dont have that
> many options....
Yes they do: it's just that you don't have those options handed to you on a
plate the way magicians do. You have to be creative rather than just write
another spell.
Lynch is a lot more vulnerable than a magician, in many ways. That's why, gross-
out combat machine or not, he's still interesting and challenging to play. I
ran a wolf shaman for a while, but once he hit level 3 initiation the fun went
out of it: there wasn't enough risk. Fenris was good enough with both guns and
magic to defeat almost anything you threw at him without having to think. Lynch
frequently retreats under cover of smoke and flash grenades, to find that
elusive Plan B that lets him win: mages with wired support are lethal and Lynch
survives by retreating, to snipe from a distance and eliminate the spell-casters
before picking off the support muscle.
He's also learned to be very cautious indeed. For instance, in the PBeM he's in
at the moment, the team have just been surprised by an old man whose car
has broken down and several of them have gone to help. Lynch is on the roof with
a toolbag containing a sniper rifle, pretending to tinker with an uptake while
he watches the repairs to make sure nothing happens. Almost certainly a waste
of his time and effort: but if something goes wrong or it turns out to be a
trap, he's there with a silenced rifle and the skill to use it from a
reasonably unexpected angle. Paranoid? Everyone *does* want to kill him. He
survives because it's too expensive to mount an anti-Lynch operation, and
previous attempts were costly failures. There are several corps who would
delight in a chance to rid themselves of such a nuisance as him if they had
the chance, though.
One of the most interesting runs we played involved the group trapped without
weapons in a killing zone, being attacked for the trideo cameras - basically a
version of "The Running Man". The (three) magicians were in heaven: problem,
what problem? They still had all their spells... Lynch and the Lady (merc and
samurai) had to fight very smart indeed since all they had were cyberspurs
against assault rifles (which were keyed to the user's smartgun link, of
course...) One mage died from a terminal case of overconfidence. Both
wiremonsters came out perforated and bleeding, but alive, because they made
use of the environment, improvised, and didn't use the same trick twice.
--
When you have shot and killed a man, you have defined your attitude towards
him. You have offered a definite answer to a definite problem. For better or
for worse, you have acted decisively.
In fact, the next move is up to him.
Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 00:37:55 GMT
Reply-To: Paul@********.demon.co.uk
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Paul Jonathan Adam <Paul@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Magic or Tech...
Gawd, I'm replying *again*... maybe I'm trying to be the fourth Mohican, Bob :-)
> As far as I see it betaware (especially for essence expensive toys that
> make it really worth it) is two things, munchkin and not feasible. Let me
> explain, betaware means ((original cost)X street index)X 7 , so this
> means that wired 3 beta would cost more than 4.5 mill (I dont have the street
> index right now). Now please tell me what normal meta-human would throw
> 4.5 million nuyen out the window when he could buy a permanent near luxury
> lifestyle ???????? OTOH what runner comes across that much money anyway.
Try this one. You are about to hit a corporation - one that is independently
quoted on the market - and the results of your mission will be loud and public.
Say it's to annihilate their main research lab. Now do the words "bear market"
come to mind? Sell every share you possibly can without attracting attention on
ninety-day terms. Do the hit. If it fails, your trading contract is the least
of your worries :-) If it succeeds, the price will plummet and you're in the
money. Invest some profit in another fake ID because you won't be able to repeat
the trick under the same name, and throw away the ID you used for the
transaction because many people may now come to look for it.
Remember also alpha/betaware prices are based on rarity, street value, and many
other things: cost price to the supplier is a lot lower. Soryama hires for
runs occasionally: guess what he pays in? You got it - top-spec betaware,
installation included. A betaware smartgun link, datajack and cybereyes are a
really good paycheck to most samurai.
And if you're good enough to pull in the money for betaware, you have enough
enemies that you'll need it...
> No samies are *much* more deadly than mages. A simple example can illustrate
> this. A mage casting manaball has a TN equall to the willpower of the target
> (this means a 5 - 6 when dealing with someone of any worth) and risks damaging
> himself. A sammie has a TN of 2 (almost) anytime (almost) anyplace.
In smoke against someone in cover? And if there's a way to wear armour against
magic I'd like to know what it is.
> A mage with a sorcery of 6 (pretty standard) get to roll force-of-spell-
> dice+allocated pool-dice this summ will almost invariably be less than 12
> even if the spell is of force 6.
Totem modifiers, power focuses, fetish focuses, specific spell focuses,
elemental aid sorcery power... need I continue? Which of these does a samurai
get?
> A Sammie with a skill of 6 always gets his base 6 dice + any
> pool dice (a samies combat pool ranges for 7-9 dice for starters). Needless
> to say that a sammie doesnt have to worry about drain and its in his best
> interest to use all the available pool dice to kill his opponent ASAP.
Unless his opponent has friends who are trying to return the compliment, in
which case if he blows his combat pool he's dead meat. While a magician can
blow his entire Magic Pool into one spell and still dodge bullets.
> I could go on rambling about how much damage a mage and a sammie do
> but I think that I have made my point.
Not really. Both have advantages, one of which is when a magician
and a samurai see each other at 200-300 metres range (we do a lot of wilderness
work) and the samurai has a SMG. Street-samurai sushi in most cases, or at best
a sammie down in the weeds trying to be invisible: immobilised and helpless.
> > How many mage are out there running 2D6?? I know of a couple, but they're
> > major newbies who didn't know to take the increase reflexes at 3. I would
> > be willing to bet that nearly everyone here has mages quickened or locked to
> > (reaction) +4D6.
>
> Any mage that still (all of them want to try it once) has a quickened or
> locked incr.reflexws +3 spell and uses it often has a *very* linient GM.
We have magicians with wired reflexes :-) Beat *that* up in astral, ya bastard!
Astral combat takes time you don't have in a firefight anyway, and is a great
way to make enemies. One time a PC mage decided a stranger's nine quickened
spells offended him, and attacked them. The stranger (seemingly a level-zero
initiate) dropped her masking, revealing herself to be a Great Dragon in
full pissed-off mood... After it stopped raining burning chunks of magician,
we apologised to the Dragon (begged for our lives, actually) and were allowed
to flee. By the same token, random (or even planned) attacks on astral entities
like quickened/locked spells, foci etc. are rare except for the munchkinous of
intent. Monster power foci tend to have short lives...
Cue the detective hired for a case by a PC mage.
"Why did these people steal my Rating 9 power focus that was worth nearly three
million newyen?"
"Because it was worth nearly three million newyen? That will be the standard
fee of 500Y. Please slam the door on the way out..."
Letting the magicians keep up with the samurai is only fair. Increase +4,
though, causes nervous system damage in my game. There's fair and there's
taking advantage... :-)
--
When you have shot and killed a man, you have defined your attitude towards
him. You have offered a definite answer to a definite problem. For better or
for worse, you have acted decisively.
In fact, the next move is up to him.
Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 19:20:16 -0500
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Bob Ooton <topcat@**.CENCOM.NET>
Subject: Re: Magic or Tech...
>Money is cheap, but karma is dear.
Gimme a fat credstick over a point of karma anyday. (Hmmm, I guess I only
have to eat raw soy for two more months, but I can cast hellblast! Of
course, my emaciated body will turn to dust when I do...)
>> I would be willing to bet that nearly everyone here has mages quickened
or locked to (reaction) +4D6.
>You would bet wrong:) In our games, spell locks and quickened spells are a
sure way to lose karma the hard way. One point at a time. I'm even biased in
the favor of mages, but that doesn't stop me from giving them hell when I
GM. I feel that mages should be powerful but that they should go through
many years of hell to get there.
True, but I'm also willing to bet that your game is the exception, not the
rule. I, personally, feel that mages should know that there are limitations
out there. All too often those limits are never brought to bear (which is
one of the core reasons I started this thread in the first place).
-- Bob Ooton <topcat@******.net>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 20:20:08 -0400
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Magic or Tech...
In-Reply-To: <9504042147.AA18046@******.net>
On Tue, 4 Apr 1995, Bob Ooton wrote:
> Many people (not all...just a lot) give mages pretty much free reign
> over the rules while making life damn near impossible for samurai
> (cyberpsychosis, while a wonderful roleplaying tool is hell on the
> character...a mages biggest worry is usually "how much karma do I need
> for my NEXT level of initiation?").
Yes, but a good GM can make things hellish on a mage as well.
Take the magical group, for instance. Yes, it's a great way to increase
your personal knowledge and power. But what if you slowly discover that
the group you joined turns out to be a little more than you'd bargained
for. And what if you come to the realization that you can't just leave.
It's too late. You know too much. A great situation for roleplaying and
one that can challenge the player as well as the character.
So it's up to the players to role-play the characters, but it's
up to the GM to come up with new and interesting challenges that will
engage the players beyond "I rolled a 34 on my initiative. I blast the
baddie."
Marc
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 20:32:48 -0400
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Magic or Tech...
In-Reply-To: <9504042157.AA18269@******.net>
On Tue, 4 Apr 1995, Bob Ooton wrote:
> Of course megacorporations don't like that stuff, but I wouldn't
> let/couldn't see most runners ever getting into the Arcology or the Pyramid
> and living more than a few seconds.
Not *every* run involves sneaking into someplace you're not
supposed to be. Long term infiltration runs are great for roleplaying
challenges because by and large you can't just hose people down with guns
or spells. Why would the corper-scag you're posing as have an assault
rifle, anyway? Instead, you need a much more powerful weapon...subtlety.
I ran a group of runners that spent almost three weeks in the
Renraku arcology. Three very tense, very paranoid weeks, hoping beyond
hope that they or one of the other operatives didn't blow their cover and
get them all killed. Shots fired? Two. And those were fired *at* the
players, not by them.
Marc
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 20:46:49 -0400
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Magic or Tech...
In-Reply-To: <9504042349.AB19757@******.net>
On Tue, 4 Apr 1995, Bob Ooton wrote:
> Quick question... How many GM's out there (players feel free to answer for
> your GM) apply lighting and cover mods to spells? They do have to see the
> target, right? Mirrored glass on buildings and vehicles poses another
> threat to casters.
I do. My players aren't always aware of it, but they're usually
included in there somewhere. And exterior-opaque and mirrored windows
are just a fact of life.
Marc
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 21:16:03 -0400
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: "J.D. Falk" <jdfalk@****.CAIS.COM>
Organization: Schroedinger's Cats
Subject: Re: Magic or Tech...
In-Reply-To: <9504042147.AA18046@******.net>
On Tue, 4 Apr 1995, Bob Ooton wrote:
> If you look at my message which started this, you'll see that my point was
> not which is better...it's that very few people see technology as anything
> but something which keeps mages from going first in the combat round.
Actually, I think it's more that most if not all of the people on
the list are comfortable enough with technology that there's less need to
discuss it here on the list. Not that we don't have tech discussions, of
course (especially about ammunition, aviation, and power sources.)
Overall, magic -- especially within the Shadowrun system -- is
much less concrete, and much more...random. Not always, of course, but
it follows paths of nature that we humans don't always fully understand,
or some crap like that. *grin*
ATTENTION: Let us /NOT/ get into another flamewar over the nature
of magic. My point is that magic is less obvious, and therefore garners
more discussion on the list.
> The point (time and again) is that it's the player who makes the character,
> not the archetype...
Yup.
-------------========== J.D. Falk <jdfalk@****.com> =========-------------
| "Peace, love, empathy." |
| --Last words from Kurt Cobain to his fans |
--------========== http://www.cais.com/jdfalk/home.html ==========--------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 11:03:17 +0930
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Questions
In-Reply-To: <lfH8+IaJUjA@*****_mail.jet> from "Philip Hayward" at Apr 4,
95 03:37:08 pm
Philip Hayward wrote:
> I agree here but someone could hit your meat body for stun right?
> Also what if instead of knocking your meat body unconscious how about
> they pump you full of sedative - is it the same as stun? what effect
> do most drugs have when you are astral projecting?
>
Hit a projecting mage, and they die. Pure and simple. Inject sedatives, and
the needle will kill them. Use patches, or gas, and it might knock them
unconcious. Any drug which has deleterious (that's BAD) effects will
probably kill them.
> Along a similar line am I right in thinking that when someone goes into
> a coma their brain is still functioning. If so could they be active
> on either in the matrix or on the astral plane?
>
No... when you go into a coma, it's cause your brain has decided to
retreat. You may be astrally active (unconciously, of course), but not
active in the matrix.
> Does the meat body still have an aura, as that of a mage, whilst your
> projecting? Can you cast mind probe or control thoughts/emotions/actions
> type spells on the meat body while owner is projecting?
You betcha...
--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
Finger me for my geek code
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 11:06:39 +0930
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: IMHO???
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.87.9504041655.B18692-0100000@******.engin.umich.edu> from
"Marc A Renouf" at Apr 4, 95 04:40:55 pm
Marc A Renouf wrote:
>
[ Acronyms deleted... ]
> or a veritable horde of other acronyms that escape my feeble
> brain at present.
I've always been fond of RTFM, myself... [ Read The (insert word beginning
with F here) Manual ]
--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
Finger me for my geek code
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 22:52:42 -0500
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Tim Serpas <wretch@**.COM>
Subject: Re: Paul J. Adam's posts in regard to the Magic/tech issue
In-Reply-To: <9504042349.AC19757@******.net>
On Tue, 4 Apr 1995, Bob Ooton wrote:
> THANK YOU!
> For taking the time to illustrate so many of the points that needed to be
> made. Very well done. If possible, I would like to see the histories of
> the characters in your campaign, if not the basics of the characters
> themselves. Thanks once again...
>
I've seen a couple of web pages with character histories and annecdotes, and
enjoyed them quite a bit. I've been thinking about doing some archives of
our own group, even.
So what's the level of interest? Will the bandwidth be too much?
Submitted respectfully,
Tim Serpas, II Dan
wretch@**.com
Geek Code v.2: GS d- H++>+++ s:- !g p1 auVW a- w+ v+ C+(++++) U P? !L !3
E---- N++ K++ W M- !V -po+ Y+>++ t+ !5 j+>$ R+ G''
tv+>! b+>++ D+ B-- e++>-- u+ h- f+>* r n+ y+
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 00:00:01 -0400
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: "J.D. Falk" <jdfalk@****.CAIS.COM>
Subject: [FAQ] ShadowRN: Discussion List for the RPG ShadowRun (Part II)
SHADOWRN FAQ Version 2.7a (4-4-95)
Part II
____________________________________________________________________________
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
2. MORE INFORMATION ABOUT THE LIST
A. A Disclaimer
B. Off-topic postings and policies related to
1. The "What is magic(k)?" discussion
2. The supercalifrajilistic ammo discussion
3. Chain Letters
C. Why should I read this entire FAQ?
D. Replying to previous messages
E. About Flaming
F. Mailing List Advertising Policy
G. Just who are these administrators anyways?
3. SHADOWRN LEXICON OF COMMON TERMS
4. HOW TO GET PAST LOGS AND OTHER NET-AVAILABLE SHADOWRUN INFORMATION
A. Using the LISTSERV 'GET' command
B. Getting past logs via FTP
C. Getting past messages via Gopher or WWW
D. FTP, Gopher, and WWW sites for Shadowrun materials
5. SHADOWRUN RELATED MAILING LISTS, NEWSGROUPS AND OTHER FORUMS
A. ShadowTK
B. PLOT-D
C. NERPS
D. EARTHDAWN
E. ALT.CYBERPUNK.*
F. REC.GAMES.FRP.CYBER
G. ALT.MAGICK
H. ShadowRun MUSH
I. FASA Email Addresses
6. MISCELLANEOUS SHADOWRUN INFORMATION
A. Recommended Non-FASA Gaming Supplements
7. MISCELLANEOUS (and often unrelated) INFORMATION
A. Dealing with large amounts of ShadowRN mail
1. Digesting
2. Filtering
B. What is PGP?
C. What is the Geek Code?
D. Cypherpunks Mailing list
E. The Electronic Frontier Foundation
F. Additional FTP sites for Role-Playing materials (some non-SR)
______________________________________________________________________________
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2. MORE INFORMATION ABOUT THE LIST
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
A. A Disclaimer
By nature of the topic of this list (cyberpunk fiction and
role-playing), it should be warned that discussions often contain
violent, sexual or adult themes, as well as anarchistic political
discussions. The responsibility (blame?) for each posting falls
entirely into the hands of the original poster. The listowners,
postmaster, and the HEARN administration assume no liability for
the contents of postings.
*********
B. Off-topic postings and policies related to
While the topic of this list is specifically related to
ShadowRun, it has been determined that the topic encompasses far
more than the specific rules within the FASA manuals. Part of
the all-important part of any role-paying game is the atmosphere
that the players find themselves in. Often, this cannot be
adaquately explained within the written rules.
To this end, there is a very liberal posting policy with regards
to topics. This is to allow everyday babble and observations to
create a virtual society of sorts on the list, and to give all who
participate in and opportunity to explore that society.
Thus, you will often see postings that are only vaguely related
to ShadowRun being posted. Often this has to do with politics
(especially information politics) or with recent technological
breakthroughs. While there are no hard-set rules with regards to
what off-topic postings are permitted, it should be reminded that
we all come here because of our interest in ShadowRun, so postings
should at the very least be of interest to all, and be within the
umbrella of being source material for the shadowrun society.
Officially, the following actions will take place with regards to
off-topic postings.
1) Non-Shadowrun threads that live for more that 24 hours
will be pointed out by the listowners. At that time, either
make the thread once again Shadowrun relevant or take it to
private email.
2) If after 48 hours, the thread still continues, the
listowner will start deleting people from the list. If
that happens, you are free to come back, but at the very
least, the deletion will serve as a warning to stay relevant.
Persons who repeatedly violate the rules and disrupt the use of
the list by others will be be dealt on a case-by-case basis, but
action can include (but is not limited to): temporary removal
from the list (for example, six months), permanent removal from
the list or notification to the violator's sysadmin or service
provider.
B.1. The "What is magic(k)?" discussion
One of the most common ongoing threads on the ShadowRN mailing
list has to do with the nature of magic (or, as some call it,
magick.) It will often begin with come confusion about the
Shadowrun magic rules, and quickly turn into a discussion of
obviously conflicting worldviews. At this point, it is no
longer germane to the mailing list, and should be moved to
either private EMail or a more appropriate mailing list.
B.2. The supercalifrajilistic ammo discussion
Another common thread has to do with different types of special
ammunition, usually related to such esoteric ammo types as
dikoted (diamond coating) or depleted-uranium. These, also,
usually begin with some confusion about official FASA published
ammo types, and degenerate into arguments which are no longer
any more than slightly germane to the mailing list.
B.3. Chain Letters
Do not send chain letters to ShadowRN. 'Nuff said.
**********
C. Why should I read this entire FAQ?
Well, if you don't (and it's pretty obvious that you are, at least
in part), chances are you'll end up posting a question to the list
which has already been answered so many times that it became
classified as a Frequently Asked Question, and has been answered
here in this FAQ. This will cause a number of people to respond
with answers such as "Read the FAQ," "It's in the FAQ," and
even
"What kind of a moron doesn't read the FAQ?"
It may even spark a conversation about /exactly/ what kind of moron
doesn't read the FAQ. Legend tells us of other, long-dead mailing
lists, in which this topic became such a point of deliberation as
to totally drive out any discussion related to the original purpose
of the mailing list, eventually taking up so much bandwidth that
hundreds of systems worldwide crashed from the influx of mail.
Also, it makes you look like a butthead.
**********
D. Replying to previous messages
(adapted from a Frequenly Reposted Message by Doctor Doom)
When one seeks to juxtapose one's own views with an earlier
message, i.e. reply to an anterior posting, one should:
1. Facilitate differentiation between original and cited material
by denoting text from the former correspondence with initial line
characters (">" and "]" being typical), rather than
simply
append one's own material at the end.
2. Quote, or cite, only those lines pertinent to your reply or
commentary, that is to say, avoid repeating the entire message.
3. Quote the earlier posting /previous/ to insertion of one's own
script, RATHER than including the preceding post at the /end/ of
your message. Hence, observers may see what instigated one's
reaction, and following that, specifically what one's reaction
or reply actually /was/.
In line with this is the popular procedure that "intermingles" the
respective texts, by which one replies to specific lines of text
individually, followed by another citation, followed by more
response material, and so forth.
4. Indicate the prior posting's authorship by identifying said
message's originator at the beginning of the earlier material, and
/not/ by the inclusion of the (typically) multiple-line signature
file.
I only mention this in interests of the greater good and due to the
fact that others have made similar complaints. It is poor Net
etiquette for those who choose to plow through the volume of mail
this list produces and to have to contend with such obviously
unnecessary verbiage -- especially those members who must actually
PAY for electronic mail service.
**********
E. About Flaming
_The New Hacker's Dictionary_ defines the Flame as:
1. vi. To post an email message intended to insult and
provoke. 2. vi. To speak incessantly and/or rabidly on
some relatively uninteresting subject or with a patently
ridiculous attitude. 3. vt. Either of senses 1 or 2,
directed with hostility at a particular person or people.
4. n. An instance of flaming. When a discussion degenerates
into useless controversy, one might tell the participants
"Now you're just flaming" or "Stop all that flamage!"
to
try to get them to cool down (so to speak).
Flaming is highly discouraged on the ShadowRN list, because in
the end it only only wastes everyone's time, bandwidth and quota,
and seldom if ever leads to any resolution of problems. If a
discussion reaches the point where people are calling everyone
names or insulting, a warning will be issused from the listowner
saying something along the lines of "take it to email". If the
flamers continue to flood the list with their hate-mail, they will
be deleted from the list.
One of the other problems is that often someone "insults" someone
in a satirical way. This is something that happens quite often in
the real world, but the real world has the benefit of
body-language and tone-of-voice to show that it is only polite
joking. Cyberspace doesn't have that feature.
In order to make sure that your humorous flame isn't taken
seriously, make sure you include a smiley or some other indication
to show that you are only joking,
**********
G. Mailing List Advertising Policy
This policy is intended to fight mailing-list "spamming".
The Shadowrun mailing lists accept commercial advertising for
payment. We offer a fee waiver if you can show us the cancelled
check for a $1000 (U.S.) or more donation to the Electronic
Frontier Foundation. One donation per advertisement, please. If
you don't wish to donate, simply post your advertisement to the
list, and the operator of the mailing lists will bill $1999 (U.S).
The list operator will donate this amount, minus the expense of
collecting it, to EFF. Please note that the lists are distributed
automatically - messages are generally not read or checked in any
way before they are distributed.
By the act of posting your advertisement you agree to accept
responsibility for the fee, you agree to indemnify the
mailing-list operator against any legal claims from you or others
in connection with your advertisement, and you agree to pay any
legal and business expenses incurred in collecting late payment.
Our liability to you is limited to a good-faith effort to deliver
your message.
Reduced rates and/or waiver of fee are available for Shadowrun-
related and selected other topics of advertisements. You must
consult the mailing-list operator in advance of posting for any
reduction or fee waiver.
*********
G. Just who are these administrators anyways?
Robert A. Hayden, 24, is a senior at Mankato State University,
located in Mankato, Minnesota (USA). He is majoring in
experiential education with an emphasis on computer administration
and information sciences. He plans to continue on to graduate
school after his graduation, most likely at Mankato State. In
addition, Hayden is a member of the MSU Student Senate Academic
Computing Committee.
Netwise, Hayden is active not only in the Shadowrun forums, but
can also be found in forums devoted to electronic and personal
rights. A member of the Electronic Frontier Foundation, Computer
Professionals for Social Responsiblity, and the American Civil
Liberties Union, he has taken a rather strong stance on the need
for data privacy and rights in cyberspace. In addition, he is a
vocal participant in various gay/lesbian/bisexual rights groups
and spends much of his off-net time pursuing civil rights for
minority sexual orientations.
Hayden began his game-writing career when 16. He had published a
set of rules that added fixed-wing aircraft to the Steve Jackson
battle simulation Car Wars. Following graduation from high
school, he then edited the net.book _The Tome of Mighty Magic_, a
book of (very) high level spells for TSR's AD&D. Hayden has also
been published in the _Neo-Anarchists Guide to Everything Else_
(#4 and #5). In addition, Hayden is the writer of the infamous
'Geek Code' that can be found on many corners of the net.
In addition, Hayden is employed by the City of Mankato as a system
administrator studying the feasibility of hooking the city up to
the internet.
If he could he an animal, Hayden would be a dolphin.
-----------------------------------------
Hello, I'm Peter Graves . . . on this episode of "Biography",
we're going to be looking into one of the more enigmatic members
of the ShadowRun mailing list. He came out of nowhere and
eventually ascended to a position of power in the administration
of the list in spite of the fact that very little is known about
him. Tonight, we shall attempt to pierce that shourd of secrecy
surrounding the one known as Doctor Doom . . .
-=-=-=-=-
Doctor Doom, 22, is a senior at Texas A & M University, located in
College Station, Texas (USA). The particular nomenclature derived
from ascribed behavioral similarites to a Marvel Comics character.
His major field of study is History, with a particular emphasis
placed upon European, and more specifically, German studies -- a
situation which is complemented by his minor in German.
Interests: Recreational reading and writing, including poetry and
prose, which includes but is not restricted to participation on
ShadowTalk and the generation of game system rules expansions and
background history.
Politically he is extremely conservative, although he derives
particular pleasure from discussion of politics and how one's
philosophy applies to government. As of this summer, he has
acquired a time slot on his local collegiate radio station, which
shall be devoted to a mixture of current events and political
commentary.
Doom has been an intermittent member of the two local Science
Fiction & Fantasy associations, MSC: Nova and Cepheid Variable.
His role-playing experience began about a decade ago; since that
time, he has gradually migrated from game system to game system
until his discovery of FASA Corporation in 1986. First with
BattleTech and the subsequent Mechwarrior, later giving way to
ShadowRun, Doom has conversed semi-regularly and at length with
the various Powers That Be at the FASA offices, including
dialogues with Tom Dowd, the Dark Lord on High, and Sam Lewis,
current President of FASA.
Presently, he serves as assistant administrator, or Dread
Executor, of the four ShadowRun mailing lists.
{Excerpted from a Barbara Walters Interview}
"So, Mista Doom, pwease teww us, were you an animuw, what sowt of
animaw, would you be?"
"Well, Barbara, despite the utterly pedestrian intellectual quality
of that inquiry -- such that it causes me to generate the distinct
impression that you are seeking the reaction of an individual
placed in a circumstances so ridiculous that they could only be
likened to embarking on an outing where one shall window-shop for
the selection of a body which one should recieve in the event of
reincarnation -- I shall ne'ertheless strive to provide an answer,
albeit a predictable response: an Imperial Eagle."
"Oh, I see. Well, denn, what sowt of twee would you be, then?"
-----------------------------------------
J.D. Falk, 20, is a member of the growing net.minority made up of
those who are not connected to either an educational institution
or computer company. He is currently working for Montgomery
Community Television, which operates the public-access and county
government cable television channels in Montgomery County,
Maryland, USA (a suburb of Washington, D.C.)
Looking around the 'net, Falk can be found in a lot of places (some
of which even _he_ can't explain.) Falk participates regularly in
various discussions about net.politics, and generally favors the
continuation of the current self-regulating semi-anarchistic 'net.
"Just write a good charter," he often says, "and inform people when
they're going against it."
Falk was until recently the General Manager of the Role-Playing
Information Area on the National Capital Area Public Access Network
(CapAccess) in Washington, D.C.; CapAccess boasts over 10,000 users
but, it seems, very few role-players, so the area has been closed.
He co-wrote and published a Space Opera genre role-playing game
in 1989 called S.H.A.L.T. (which has been majorly reworked by
the other co-authors into a new game, called Galactica -- look for
it at GenCon!), and seriously enjoys the social ramifications of the
Cyberpunk genre.
Currently, he is the second-ever editor of the _Net Enhancements
for Role-Playing Shadowrun_ series of books, and is responsible for
the ShadowRN and NERPS FAQs, but honestly has no other authority over
this mailing list. Still, he's been around a while, and can often be
persuaded to give advice.
****************************************************************************
3. SHADOWRUN LEXICON OF COMMONPLACE TERMINOLOGY
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Compiled by Doctor Doom and J.D. Falk
What follows is jargon frequently seen on the ShadowRun List, along with
definitions and histories, in order that one may be assisted in
familiarizing one's self with this discussion mailserver.
Common Term Definitions
-----------------------
The Dark Lord on High (DLoH)
A reference to Tom Dowd, who participated in the conception,
design, and development of the background and rules of the game
ShadowRun. His title, originally thought of and used by Doctor
Doom (on 31 Oct 92, 01:11:46), derives from his position at the
FASA offices, who have designated him as the individual to which
all questions regarding rules for the ShadowRun Game System are
forwarded, logically owing to his involvement in the project from
its beginnings.
Several members of this list contact him periodically, seeking his
wisdom in instances where the rules are either seemingly
contradictory, too vague for singular interpretation, or simply do
not exist for a particular situation. He is considered by many to
be the a sort of Final Arbiter, an Ultimate Adjudicator for such
matters, although there are those who do not subscribe to this
sentiment.
And, yes, he is aware that we refer to him as such.
It should be noted that Tom Dowd has moved within the company,
and is now heading a different department. His old position is
now filled by Carl Sargent. It remains to be seen whether Carl
will inherit the title DLoH, though he now has all rights and
privileges due to the holder of that position within FASA.
FASA
The Freedonian Aeronautic and Space Administration. The company
which produces our own beloved ShadowRun, as well as Earthdawn,
another game with important ties with the ShadowRun world.
Discussion and reviews of recent FASA products are fairly common
upon the mailserver, as are commentary regarding various rulings
from The Dark Lord.
The name Freedonia comes from the European country depicted in
"Duck Soup", a Marx Brothers film, in which Groucho Marx portrays
Rufus T. Firefly, President of Freedonia.
Fearless Leader
Term for Robert A. Hayden, listowner of all four mailing lists
connected with ShadowRun: ShadowRn, ShadowTk, Plot-D, and NERPS.
Coined in homage to the Rocky and Bullwinkle television show;
Fearless Leader was the man that Boris and Natasha reported to.
Assistant Fearless Leader, D.E.A.T.H.
Term for Doctor Doom, assistant listowner of all four mailing lists
mentioned above. D.E.A.T.H., Doctor Doom's own term, stands for
"Dread Executor of Administrative Tasks for Hayden." He is also
sometimes referred to as simply the "Dread Executor."
Munchkin
Either noun or verb. Munchkinism is exhibited in two primary
forms of expression, that of rules interpretation/implementation
and power.
Munchkins tend to interpret rules in either the broadest possible
sense or such that benefits shall be disproportionately bestowed,
especially in exclusive favor to their character. They
consistently push the envelope of the letter and spirit of the law
in an effort to gain the greatest (sometimes individual) latitude.
Usually, areas targeted for such pressure are instances where the
published rules are particularly vague or may not specifically
apply, i.e., loopholes.
Besides this, Munchkins are quite willing to take leave of the
game system to achieve their desires and demonstrate a great
willingness to alter, augment, or eliminate the rules without
paying due consideration to alternatives to or the ramifications
of their actions.
As has already been implied, the end product of all Munchkins
efforts lead to one thing: Power. Munchkins are driven by the
desire to become the most potent player in the group/setting/world
in which they are playing. Further, any questions as to the
believability (within the genre) or feasibility of such
exceedingly potent characters or are not salient to the Munchkin.
Also, Munchkins are generally very reticent to create serious
obstacles or problems for his character, and typically they
exhibit most grievous vexation should the Game Master or other
players frustrate his plans. In line with this, they
energetically seek to avoid any disadvantages or costs in an
effort to achieve their goals. A Munchkin EXPECTS to win all the
time.
True, it may be argued that the above behaviours are merely
natural tendencies, but they attain a certain fanaticism in
Munchkins.
NERPS
"Inside Joke" at the offices of FASA. According to them, it
originally stood for "Nothing Ever Really Pleases Steve/Scott",
although no particulars as to the identity as to Steve or Scott
were given. Appeared in FASA products as early as Virtual
Realities (p. 81) possibly earlier. Has now taken on a life of
its own.
NOTE: Despite the natural tendency to interpret NERPS as a jibe
to Steve Jackson Game's product GURPS, such speculation is
without foundation.
NERPS are the ultimate placebo. They may serve as a cure (almost)
for anything one might care to name -- from the common cold to
nuclear war. NERPS are commonly used to contend with Munchkins and
just about anything else that springs to mind.
Finally, NERPS has also been adopted as the name of an associated
mailing list, which has as it's purpose to design several new,
fan-written, ShadowRun manuals. NERPS was acronymed to stand for:
Net Enhancements for Role-Playing Shadowrun. Unlike the FASA
version of NERPS, this name for this Tome _was_ coined partially
as a jibe at GURPS.
SHADOWRUN GURU
See "Unofficial Shadowrun Guru" below.
THWAP
The sound a wet carp makes when someone is struck with it; also
the act of striking someone with a wet carp.
The term was first used in the latter part of the year the list
became operational, when our Fearless Leader, Robert Hayden, was
experiencing considerable problems with his mailer, such that all
were receiving several copies of EVERY posting he dispatched.
Howls of discontent were heard across the node. Tempers were
raised. Flames were exchanged.
On Thursday, 22 October 1992 (21:03:17 CET), Hayden, in an attempt
to soothe the raising ire of the other members as well as offer an
apology, infused a bit of levity in his requesting pardon for the
inconvenience, to wit:
"You can thwap me with a wet carp if it will make you feel better."
And thus the concept was born. Immediately many list members
latched upon this rather novel idea. The first actual THWAP was
invoked by Doctor Doom on 22 October 1992, 15:31:00 CST, rapidly
followed by the now-missing Harlequin and Flare.
A legend was begun...
Since then, its has been used so frequently that the idea took on
a life of its own, and it is now a legitimate term, even if only
jargon. Thwaps are generally brought to bear upon especially
bizarre, silly, or Munchkinous ideas, although their invocation
usually indicates a degree of levity and good-spiritedness.
Thwaps are not meant for spite--that purpose is served by flames.
TOLM WAPPERs
Generic term for the denizens of the ShadowRun list. Initially
stood for Those Other List Members Which Are Presently Perplexed
at this Esoteric Rambling.
Other users are also collectively referred to as simply "the list"
or "listmembers" on occasion.
UNOFFICIAL SHADOWRUN GURU
From time to time, you may see listmembers refer to themselves as
being a "Shadowrun Guru." This is an unofficial title, invented in
late March of 1995 by a listmember who wished to thank fellow
members Gurth and Damien Milliken for sending out so many well-
thought-out messages about the game.
While sending many messages is /not/ the way to become an Unofficial
Shadowrun Guru, sending out well-thought-out messages /is/, and is
highly encouraged. Yes, folks, sometimes thinking helps. *grin*
Commonly Utilized Abbreviations:
--------------------------------
DLoH : The Dark Lord on High
FAQ : Frequently Asked Questions (list)
FOF : Fields of Fire
GM : Game Master, also called DM, Referee, or Administrator
Grim : The Grimoire (1 & 2), also referred to as the
'Grimmey' or the 'Grimthingie'
HB : Harlequin's Back, a module released by FASA which
was eagerly awaited by many members of the list.
IMHO : In My Humble Opinion
IMO : In My Opinion (humble or otherwise)
NAGM : Neo-Anarchist's Guide to Magic (unreleased as of
the date of this FAQ, though a number of listmembers
have official "beta-test" copies from FASA.
NAGNA : Neo-Anarchist's Guide to North America
NAGRL : Neo-Anarchist's Guide to Real Life
NAGEE : Neo-Anarchist's Guide to Everything Else (independent
publication, composed of non-official information)
NERPS : Net Enhancements for Role-Playing Shadowrun (also
an independent publication)
NPC : Non-Player Character
PC : Player Character
PGP : Pretty Good Privacy (see below)
RBB : Rigger Black Book
SSC : Street Samurai Catalogue (1 & 2)
SR : ShadowRun, also known as the Blue Book
SR2 : ShadowRun Second Edition, also the Black Book
S-Beat : ShadowBeat
S-Tech : ShadowTech
(the) Tir : Tir Tairngire, or the sourcebook of the same name
VR : Virtual Realities
Common Slang for Various Character Types
----------------------------------------
With considerable input and assistance provided by J Roberson
Street Samurai...................Cyberknight, Techwarrior, Street Sam, Sammie,
Street Pizza, Street Op, Combat Gumby, Muscle,
Razorboy/Razorgirl, Slasher, Strongarm, Killer
Decker.................................Technomancer, Matrix Runner, Net Runner,
Net Junkie, ICskater, ICbreaker, Hacker,
Jacker, Data Thief, Console Cowboy
Rigger..................................Driver, Flyboy/Flygirl, Jockey, Wireman
Magic-Users (General)............Magician, Magiker, Spell-Chucker, Spellcaster,
ManaMan, Witch/Warlock, Wiz, Wu Jen
Mage...........................Thaumaturge, Magician, Magiker, Sorcerer, Wizard
Physical Adepts................................Ninja, Warrior, Numbskull, Blade
Shamans..........................................Priest, Nature Boy, Chosen One
Druids............................................Blood Mage, Lineman, Leyseers
******************************************************************************
4. HOW TO GET PAST LOGS AND OTHER NET-AVAILABLE INFORMATION
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
A. Using the LISTSERV 'GET' command.
Logs of activity on SHADOWRN will be kept online and be available via
the listserv at HEARN. In order to get a directory listing of the
SHADOWRN related files, send the command INDEX SHADOWRN to
LISTSERV@*****.BITNET. You should get a response in a little while
that lists all of the files available.
The log files will be named 'SHADOWRN LOGyymm{A-E}', where 'yy' is the
year of the file, 'mm' is the month and the final letter indicates the
week, with the first week being 'A', and the start of the 5th week
being 'E'.
To get one of them, send the command GET filename, where filename is
the name of the file you wish to receive (example: GET SHADOWRN
LOG9303D). After a bit, you should receive that file in the mail.
**********
B. Getting past logs via FTP.
SHADOWRN logs are also available via FTP at:
site: hearn.nic.surfnet.nl
directory: /archive
The archives for the ShadowRN list are named
'SHADOWRN.LOGyymm{A-E}' using the same naming format
used when ordering the files via mail as desribed in
part A.
**********
C. Getting past messages via Gopher or WWW.
Specific messages from the NERPS list are avaliable via Gopher at:
site: hearn.nic.surfnet.nl
directory: LISTSERVs public archives/NERPS
WWW readers (Mosaic, Lynx, etc.) can be pointed to:
URL: gopher://hearn.nic.surfnet.nl
**********
D. FTP, Gopher, and WWW sites for Shadowrun materials
The following sites contain Shadowrun-related information.
================
Name: University of San Diego anonymous FTP service
Address: cerebus.acusd.edu
Contact: Jerry Stratton <jerry@******.acusd.edu>
Info Updated: May 27, 1994
Notes: Currently includes space for AD&D, Shadowrun, and Brand X
(an original superhero roleplaying game). This is the
distribution point for the _Neo-Anarchists Guide to
Everything Else_ and NERPS, the net.books for shadowrun
players. Also contains archives of ShadowTalk in .ZIP format.
This is considered to be the _MAIN_ Shadowrun FTP site,
and you will often here it referred to as just 'cerebus' in
casual conversation on the list. Also note that the name
was just recently changed to cerebus, so this site might
also be referred to accidently by its old name, 'teetot'.
================
Name: Woodelf's RPG Link Collection(?)
URL: http://dax.cs.wisc.edu/~woodelf/RPG/RPG.html#index
Info Updated: 4-April-1995
Notes: A truly amazing list, this collection includes just about
every RPG-related resource on the World Wide Web, in
Gopherspace, or available via FTP.
================
Name: The Jayhawk series archive sites
Address: ftp.white.toronto.edu
potemkin.cs.pdx.edu [ftp.cs.pdx.edu]
Info Updated: 1-May-1991
Notes: Mary Kuhner's <mkkuhner@********.washington.edu> Jayhawk series
of stories (high quality shadowrun writeups) are available in
several archive sites. Mary has offered to mail the stories if
you can't get to one of the servers.
site1: ftp.white.toronto.edu
file: /pub/frp/shadowrun/jayhawk
site2: potemkin.cs.pdx.edu [ftp.cs.pdx.edu]
directory: /pub/frp/stories/jayhawk
================
Name: Australian FRP Archive
Address: yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au in /pub/frp/shadowrun
Contact: Aaron Wigley <wigs@****.cc.monash.edu.au>
Info Updated: 09-Dec-1992
Notes: This site contains mirrors of Shadowrun sites, as well as
unique information. Submissions should follow guidelines
shown when connecting to the site about uploading
material. Please limit your accesses to between 0800 GMT
and 2300 GMT (1800 - 0900 AEST).
=================================
The following is a list of World Wide Web sites maintained by various
listmembers. All contain information related to Shadowrun and/or the
mailing list(s), and most contain links to each other.
Address: http://www.oat.ts.astro.it/marcucci/sr2/index.html
Contact: Paolo Marcucci <marcucci@***.ts.astro.it>
Info Updated: 02-06-1995
Notes: This is the most complete site for Shadowrun-related
material, bar none.
================
Address: http://www.ip.net/shadowrun
Contact: Mark Imbracio <mark@********.ip.net>
Info Updated: 02-06-1995
================
Address: http://att2.cs.mankato.msus.edu/~hayden
Contact: Robert A. Hayden <hayden@*******.mankato.msus.edu>
Info Updated: 02-06-1995
Notes: This site is a recent effort by our Fearless Leader.
================
Address: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Contact: Gurth <gurth@******.nl>
Info Updated: 02-06-1995
================
Address: http://www.icis.qut.edu.au/~chrisr
Contact: Chris Ryan <chrisr@****.qut.edu.au>
Info Updated: 02-06-1995
Notes: Mostly contains Earthdawn information, including the
FAQ for the Earthdawn mailing list (see below) and some
info on tie-ins between Earthdawn and Shadowrun.
================
Address: http://dana.ucc.nau.edu/~djw2/
Contact: Nightfox <djw2@***.edu>
Info Updated: 03-20-1995
================
Address: http://instruction.ucdavis.edu/html/Adam/Shadowrun/
shadowrun.html
Contact: Adam Getchell <adam@*******.edu>
Info Updated: 03-20-1995
================
Address: http://tam2000.tamu.edu/~jch8169
Contact: Doctor Doom <jch8169@*******.tamu.edu>
Info Updated: 04-04-1995
Notes: One of the best.
================
Address: http://www.cais.com/jdfalk/html/shadowrun.html
Contact: J.D. Falk <jdfalk@****.com>
Info Updated: [always up to date]
Notes: This is the home of the ShadowRN and NERPS mailing list
FAQs, as well as a number of other documents relating
to the NERPS e-publications.
*****************************************************************************
5. SHADOWRUN RELATED MAILING LISTS AND NEWSGROUPS
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
A. ShadowTK (SHADOWTK@*****.BITNET)
Shadowtalk is an interactive fiction mailing list based on
Shadowrun. Members of the list post as characters in genre, and
by responding to each other's posts "in character", stories are
developed. These stories may then be used by players and GMs
alike as a basis for contacts, NPCs, and adventure plots in their
own campaigns.
There is a small companion ShadowTK FAQ that is posted to ShadowRN
once a month. A copy of the complete FAQ can also be requested
from Mark Imbracio <imbracio@********.ip.net>. It contains
full information on how to subscribe as well as information on
posting formats and periodic supplemental distributions of
information.
****************
B. PLOT-D (PLOT-D@*****.BITNET)
PLOT-D is a supplemental discussion list for ShadowTalk. The
purpose of PLOT-D is to discuss (as the name obviously implies)
plotlines. It also handles discussion of administrative issues in
order to not clog SHADOWTK or SHADOWRN with only remotely related
issues.
****************
C. NERPS (NERPS@*****.BITNET)
NERPS (Net Enhancements for Role Playing ShadowRun) is a mailing
list that serves as a committee base for a group of individuals
spending time organizing and writing up a series of net.shadowrun
manuals. These manuals contain everything from new races and
spells to new technology and alternate magic systems.
The specific project the list is currently working on varies and
full details can be found in the monthly NERPS FAQ, or a copy of
the FAQ can be requested from J.D. Falk <jdfalk@****.com>.
****************
D. EARTHDAWN
FASA's new fantasy RPG, Earthdawn, has its own mailing list. This
list covers all aspects of Earthdawn (rules, setting, campaigns,
etc) plus the crossovers to ShadowRun.
To subscribe to the list, send the following message to
majordomo@*****.iquest.com
subscribe earthdawn
List Owner: Chris Ryan <chrisr@****.qut.edu.au>
****************
E. ALT.CYBERPUNK.*
On Usenet, there are a series of cyberpunk-related newsgroups.
These groups have little to do with ShadowRun, per se, but they do
have discussions of the cyberpunk genre of fiction and its
implications on current and future society.
alt.cyberpunk
This is a general group for discussion cyberpunkish topics.
May range from cinema to politics to tends in philosophical
thinkings,
alt.cyberpunk.chatsubo
This group is devoted to the writing of cyberpunk fiction.
Several stories are posted periodic in installment fashion and
critiques are welcome.
alt.cyberpunk.movement
This newsgroup discusses the societal impact of the cyberpunk
movement.
alt.cyberpunk.tech
This group is devoted to discussions of new technologies
that the birth of a cyber age will bring about.
****************
F. REC.GAMES.FRP.CYBER
This is a Usenet newsgroup set aside for discussion of the
cyberpunk genre of role-playing games. Discussions in this group
include not only ShadowRun, but also CyberSpace, CyberPunk 2020,
GURPS Cyberpunk, and many others.
****************
G. ALT.MAGICK
This Usenet newsgroup, which may not be carried at all sites,
is for the discussion of magic/magick in "real life," in modern
times. It is not specifically for role-playing information, but
could shed some light on what FASA would consider the more
esoteric aspects of magical theory.
****************
H. ShadowRun MUSH
There is a Shadowrun-Themed MUSH set up. At last word, it is open
for public use.
The address is:
picard.dnaco.net 4201
****************
I. FASA Email Addresses
The follow two email addresses have been reported to eventually
end up before the eyes of somebody associated intimately with FASA:
FASA.SUPPORT@*****.GEis.COM
FasaTom@***.COM
****************************************************************************
6. MISCELLANEOUS Shadowrun Information
A. Recommended Non-FASA Gaming Supplements
In addition to the standard FASA-published materials, there are a
great number of sourcebooks available for other games and systems that
can provide a good many ideas for inclusion in your Shadowrun world.
To this end, included is a listing of many of these books.
NOTE: Use of these books will change Shadowrun (for example, by
adding spaceflight and other ultra-high technology), and it
is recommended only for expierienced GMs.
Car Wars: Uncle Alberts Auto Stop & Gunnery Shop catalog from hell
(Steve Jackson Games)
Compendium of Contemporary Weapons (Palladium Books)
Cyberpunk 2020
Cyberspace
Edge of the Sword #1: Compendium of Modern Firearms (R. Talsorian)
Guide to the Net (R. Talsorian)
GURPS: CyberPunk (Loyd Blankenship)
Cyberworld (Paul Hume)
Espionage (Thomas M. Kane)
High Tech
Illuminati (Nigel D. Findley)
Space
Special Ops
Terradyne (Russell Brown and Mark Waltz)
Vehicles (David Pulver)
Lawnmower Man RPG (Leading Edge Games)
MegaTraveller (Game Designers' Workshop)
Neo-Anarchists Guide to Everything Else (Jerry Stratton / Tony Moller)
Net Enchancements for Role-Playing Shadowrun (Robert A. Hayden)
Paranoia (West End Games)
Protect & Serve (R. Talsorian)
Shatterzone (West End Games)
Top Secret/SI: G4 File: Guns, Gadgets, Getaway Gear (T$R)
Torg
Twilight 2000 2nd ed: Heavy Weapons Handbook (Game Designers' Workshop)
Vampire: the Masquerade (White Wolf Games)
SPECIAL MENTIONS: (Non Role-Playing)
Basically anything written by William Gibson
Hacker Crackdown, The (Bruce Sterling)
US Cavalry Catalog [Military Surplus]
****************************************************************************
7. MISCELLANEOUS (and sometimes unrelated) INFORMATION
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
A. Dealing with large amounts of ShadowRN mail
It is not uncommon for ShadowRN to generate up to 75 messages a
day. This can be quite a load to deal with, especially if you do
not get on daily. There exist a couple of ways to possibly deal
with the large quantities of mail. These are by no means perfect,
but might be helpful.
1. Digesting
By using the 'set mail digest' command, you are able to
reduce the number of mailings you receive to only one message
per day. It also reduces the overall size of the days mail
by about 1k per message, as you only get one set of headers.
[See part I:1-F for instructions]. This can be a substantial
savings for a busy day.
2. Filtering
Some computer systems allow you to have your incoming mail
pass through a filter. This filter will allow you to sort
or delete mail based on subject or sender or many other
parameters. The exact requirements vary by system, but for
UNIX systems, check out the program called 'filter', which
is provided as part of the ELM mail package, or use archie
to locate the the program 'procmail', which serves a similiar
function, as well as providing more abilities.
To sort your ShadowRN mail, you want to sort by who the mail
is addressed TO, as the listserv maintains the from line as
being the person that wrote the posting.
The following entries can be used to use the ELM filter
program to sort your mail. 'folderpath' is the exact path
of the folder that mail is eventually sorted into:
-- begin --
# entries for filtering all four mailing lists
if (to "Multiple recipients of list NERPS") ? save folderpath
if (to "Multiple recipients of list SHADOWRN") ? save folderpath
if (to "Multiple recipients of list SHADOWTK") ? save folderpath
if (to "Multiple recipients of list PLOT-D") ? save folderpath
-- end --
If you use procmail, the following should work.
If you use elm, pine, or some other mailer that keeps all
messages in one file, use:
-- begin --
:0:
* ^TOshadowrn
shadowrn
-- end --
If you use MH or some other mailer that puts all messages in
seperate numbered files:
-- begin --
:0
* ^TOshadowrn
shadowrn/.
-- end --
Substitute the name of any other lists if you wish to filter
those as well.
You can of course, name the folders (the third line) anything
you want. The line that's important to the filter is the
line that starts with '* '. If you have problems with these
procmail recepies, <torin@****.com> has volunteered to help
out (also, it was him who wrote 'em!)
****************
B. What is PGP?
From time to time, you will see persons who post to shadowRN with
messages containing references to PGP, or containing PGP signatures.
PGP is a program available for Mac, DOS, VMS and UNIX that will
provide two important functions.
1) It provides the ability to encrypt a message so that
only the recipient can decode the document.
2) It provides the ability to attach a digital signature
that can be used to verify that the mailing originated
with that person, and isn't forged (mail is
notoriously easy to forge).
Check out the alt.security.pgp newsgroup or the cypherpunks
mailing list for additional discussion on the program and for
places to get it.
****************
C. What is the Geek Code?
You will see several signatures on ShadowRN that contain a goofy
looking line labeled as 'The Geek Code'. The geek code, written by
our Fearless Leader Robert Hayden, began as a parody of the other
famous internet 'codes' and allows one to codify their various
geekish attributes.
The geek code is online and you can finger Robert Hayden
<hayden@*******.mankato.msus.edu> for the current location, or
contact him direct if you don't have access to a finger daemon.
It is also on his World Wide Web pages, listed above.
****************
D. Cypherpunks Mailing list
>From the Cypherpunks Introduction:
The cypherpunks list is a forum for discussing personal defenses
for privacy in the digital domain.
Often, you will see articles reposted to ShadowRN from
cypherpunks, or it will be referenced in other ways. If you have
any interest in the politics of information privacy, cryptography,
and the future of the "information superhighway", this is a very
good forum to be part of.
To join, send a message to majordomo@****.com containing the word
'help' (subject is ignored) and go from there.
****************
E. The Electronic Frontier Foundation
>From the EFF's Introduction material:
The Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) was founded in July of
1990 to ensure that the principles embodied in the [U.S.]
Constitution and the Bill of Rights are protected as new
communications technologies emerge. [NOTE: the EFF is based in
the United States.]
Since its inception, EFF has worked to shape our nation's
communications infrastructure and the policies that govern it in
order to maintain and enhance First Amendment, privacy and other
democratic values. We believe that our overriding public goal must
be the creation of [an] Electronic Democracy.
For more information, send email to: info@***.org
****************
E. Additional FTP sites for Role-Playing materials (some non-SR)
The following FTP sites have been identified as containing
role-playing materials:
01] ccosun.caltech.edu
02] greyhawk.stanford.edu
03] ftp.cs.pdx.edu
04] ftp.sys.utoronto.ca
05] ftp.nau.edu
06] potemkin.cs.pox.edu
07] ucbvax.berkley.edu
08] ftp.umd.umich.edu
09] polyslo.calpoly.edu
10] iesd.auc.dk
11] ftp.csua.berkley.edu
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 09:35:56 +6000
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Philip Hayward <Philip.Hayward@***.UK>
Subject: Re: Magic or T
> If you look at my message which started this, you'll see that my point was
> not which is better...it's that very few people see technology as anything
> but something which keeps mages from going first in the combat round.
Making yet more assumptions I see, we use technology quite a bit. While
we may have a rather low amount of cyberware, we do use lots of electronic
equipment, my shaman would never rely solely on magic he is also our
electronics expert with a host of technical equipment. He believes that
magic/spirits are an ally (not a servant) so only uses spells where he could
not do something otherwise (no powerbolt or any physical damaging spell
as I can and would use my predator and sniper rifle)
> frequency (that's a roleplaying thing for mage/munchkins out there). Many
I refuse to accept that mage = munchkin, I do not see why you dislike mages
so much (although I can see why you like Sams.) Does anybody play former
Company men? - another of my favourites.
> people (not all...just a lot) give mages pretty much free reign over the
> rules while making life damn near impossible for samurai (cyberpsychosis,
> while a wonderful roleplaying tool is hell on the character...a mages
> biggest worry is usually "how much karma do I need for my NEXT level of
> initiation?").
Again why do sams have to be cybered to the teeth some yes but there are
ways of doing things without cyberware (or magic) usually. While I do
intend to become an initiate I have other ideas to burn karma on rather
than keep upping my grade. Improving skills such as electronics and
sorcery. I don't play pure magic characters and have seen little bias
towards them.
> the point (time and again) is that it's the player who makes the character,
> not the archetype...
I (and most people) agree, and I can see why you want to defend the sams
but that does not mean mages do not have their role too as you seem to
imply at times. I play a mage but it does not mean that I dislike sams
only that role had been taken and I like a well rounded group.
Phil (taking part in a thread going nowhere fast)
<Philip.Hayward@***.UK>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 10:42:40 +0200
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Questions - my own, not anyone elses
>My problem is what happens when a timed grenade lands, and everyone runs
>away, but still gets caught in the burst ? Surely the changing position
>of a target should invalidate those successes?
I'd never noticed it either, but I think I'd handle it like this: only stage
it up if the grenade is on "Impact" and then only for the target that gets
hit _directly_ by the grenade. If it blows up under his/her feet, use the
base damage without staging it, but if someone fires a grenade launcher at
someone else's stomach area stage it up (hey, I did that already...) So if
people run away they simply only get the base damage from the blast.
Or you could of course say that the successes only stage the damage if there
are any successes left after reducing the scatter. With this I mean that if
you throw a standard grenade and its scatters for 4 meters, and you get 4
successes, the first 2 reduce the scatter to 0 (2 meters per success), and
the remaining 2 are used to stage up the damage.
Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Be yourself no matter what they say
Geek Code v2.1: GS/AT/! -d+ H s:- !g p?(3) !au a>? w+(+++) v*(---) C+(++) U
P? !L !3 E? N++ K- W+ -po+(po) Y+ t(+) 5 !j R+(++)>+++$ tv+(++) b+@ D+(++)
B? e+ u+@ h! f--(?) !r(--)(*) n---->!n y? Unofficial Shadowrun Guru :)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 10:42:46 +0200
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: My questions V
>> I was speaking for the astral space only, the initiate can mask himself so
>> maybe it is possible to be unrecognisable.
>
> No I dont think so, its as gurth said, masking can hide your power and
>a mage could even change his "exterior", but if someone really knows you
>(knows your aura) and directly looks at you - there is no way to hide from
>him.
This brings me to something I've been wondering about for some time: if
you've only ever seen someone's astral self, would you recognize him if you
met him on the physical plane (with or without assensing him)? I mean, your
"idealized self-image" can look _very_ different from what you look like in
everyday life...
Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Be yourself no matter what they say
Geek Code v2.1: GS/AT/! -d+ H s:- !g p?(3) !au a>? w+(+++) v*(---) C+(++) U
P? !L !3 E? N++ K- W+ -po+(po) Y+ t(+) 5 !j R+(++)>+++$ tv+(++) b+@ D+(++)
B? e+ u+@ h! f--(?) !r(--)(*) n---->!n y? Unofficial Shadowrun Guru :)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 10:42:57 +0200
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Mage bias
>Just for the sake of argument, you can have a genius neuclear physicist (or
>cyberwear expert?), heading the research staff of a major corporation, decide
>one day that he's fed up with it all, quit his job (getting some high brass
>really pissed at him)
And quite possibly getting a sniper on his tail to make sure he doesn't go
work for another corp...
>and pursue the much less stressful career of street
>samurai, just to relax a bit (as many true geniuses, he used himself as a
>guinea pig in a couple of research projects, so now he's lightly but
>originally cybered).
You're forgetting one thing (you couldn't have known it, I guess), and that
is that most people are quite happy working for a corp -- partly because
it's all they know. Especially the high-level R&D folks are treated very
well by the corp, because the corps understand that without them they can't
make more and more money -- of course with the exceptions explained in teh
Doing Business chapter of Corporate Shadowfiles...Dire Straits were prophets! :)
>Your mage (fill in the archetype) can be [snip] capable of learning new
>spells in an ultra short time
Not with a Sorcery library of rating 1 she can't :)
>(he/she should have someone to take care of him. The sammie,
>perhaps?)
>
>Whow! That sounds like a grand idea for a story, isn't it?
How about a troll physad with a crush on her?
Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Be yourself no matter what they say
Geek Code v2.1: GS/AT/! -d+ H s:- !g p?(3) !au a>? w+(+++) v*(---) C+(++) U
P? !L !3 E? N++ K- W+ -po+(po) Y+ t(+) 5 !j R+(++)>+++$ tv+(++) b+@ D+(++)
B? e+ u+@ h! f--(?) !r(--)(*) n---->!n y? Unofficial Shadowrun Guru :)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 10:42:54 +0200
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Magic or Tech...
>>My PC's just killed two police officers in cold blood in the FRFZ
[snip]
>>(They're in the sioux sector,
>
>Good deal...too many people forget about that. But it also seems that
>people forget that cops can be mages too. So next time your freindly
>neighborhood spellslinger decides to confuse a group of cops so they can
>slide on by, have an officer explain to him the error of his ways.
Don't forget that most Sioux-sector "police" are actually ex-Wildcat special
forces, so these guys know how to kick ass better than the average street cop...
Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Be yourself no matter what they say
Geek Code v2.1: GS/AT/! -d+ H s:- !g p?(3) !au a>? w+(+++) v*(---) C+(++) U
P? !L !3 E? N++ K- W+ -po+(po) Y+ t(+) 5 !j R+(++)>+++$ tv+(++) b+@ D+(++)
B? e+ u+@ h! f--(?) !r(--)(*) n---->!n y? Unofficial Shadowrun Guru :)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 10:43:00 +0200
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Questions
>Hit a projecting mage, and they die. Pure and simple. Inject sedatives, and
>the needle will kill them. Use patches, or gas, and it might knock them
>unconcious. Any drug which has deleterious (that's BAD) effects will
>probably kill them.
Not in my game. It's just silly, IMO.
Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Be yourself no matter what they say
Geek Code v2.1: GS/AT/! -d+ H s:- !g p?(3) !au a>? w+(+++) v*(---) C+(++) U
P? !L !3 E? N++ K- W+ -po+(po) Y+ t(+) 5 !j R+(++)>+++$ tv+(++) b+@ D+(++)
B? e+ u+@ h! f--(?) !r(--)(*) n---->!n y? Unofficial Shadowrun Guru :)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 09:56:36 +6000
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Philip Hayward <Philip.Hayward@***.UK>
Subject: Re: Magic or T
Marc wrote:
>>Quick question... How many GM's out there (players feel free to answer for
>>your GM) apply lighting and cover mods to spells? They do have to see the
>>target, right? Mirrored glass on buildings and vehicles poses another
>>threat to casters.
>
> I do. My players aren't always aware of it, but they're usually
> included in there somewhere. And exterior-opaque and mirrored windows
> are just a fact of life.
Heck our mages can't use any glass/mirrors/binoculars, as to lighting
generally yes though I admit not all the time but since I tend not to
use magic as an offensive weapon - its not a problem.
---
Bob replied with:
>>> (has never seen an 18D powerbolt or anything like that, but has owned a
>>> Panther Assault Cannon)
>>
>>But all Sams, Mages and Phys-ads can carry an assualt cannon - so what?
>
>They weigh a little bit, chief. And not too many mages are going to buy up
>that gunnery skill over their sorcery. The "Gandolf Schwartzenegger" bit
>would be interesting if it were anything less than totally munchinous, but
>if there's a decent explanation as to why the mage would want gunnery skills
>and want to carry an assault cannon, then it's fair game.
Sure, I just wanted to say the potential was there. Should all mages
be purely magic orientated with no interest in technology - I think not
and mine isn't.
>> The Physad is the only one who really fits any stereotypes
>> and I see the 'who is best in a combat situation' as really
>> artificial, use creativity to make unique interesting characters
>> (as most of you probably do) with personality
>
> YES!!! More kudos!! (breaks out a new box)
Thank you.
Phil
<Philip.Hayward@***.UK>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 10:29:16 BST
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: P Ward <P.Ward@**.CF.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Questions - my own, not anyone elses
U-Gene spake thusly :-
> I would say make the demolitions role when someone steps on the mine. This
> makes it easier to keep track of. (thus something like a "Rating 5 mine
> field).
OK, that's great, I think I'll do that, cuts down on book-keeping and other
such drek. (If I wrote down my adventures instead of making most of it up
as I go along, I could have made a fortune seeling them to people by now).
Just out of interest, Chunky Salsa is in the SR-II book, but do you know who
coined the term, the military, or what?
Phil (Runs With The Pack)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 10:37:23 BST
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: P Ward <P.Ward@**.CF.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Questions
Robert Watkins said :-
> Hit a projecting mage, and they die. Pure and simple. Inject sedatives, and
> the needle will kill them. Use patches, or gas, and it might knock them
> unconcious. Any drug which has deleterious (that's BAD) effects will
> probably kill them.
Hey, since when did that happen, that house rule or official?
If that is indeed the case, then I've been missing a new way to scare off
those annoying astral scouts, who make partially prepared targets such a
nightmare.
D'ya have any semi "real-world" explanation for that, or is it just in the
grimmy?
Phil (Runs-With-The-Pack)
Deciding he liked life better as a sammy/ganger anyway.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 19:18:50 +0930
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Questions
In-Reply-To: <199504050843.AA00495@***.xs4all.nl> from "Gurth" at Apr 5,
95 10:43:00 am
Gurth wrote:
>
> >Hit a projecting mage, and they die. Pure and simple. Inject sedatives, and
> >the needle will kill them. Use patches, or gas, and it might knock them
> >unconcious. Any drug which has deleterious (that's BAD) effects will
> >probably kill them.
>
> Not in my game. It's just silly, IMO.
>
Yeah, well, I don't really play it like that either. But that's the
standard rule, and god but it scares the living daylights out of projecting
mages at times.
"What do you mean all the buildings are jumping around? San Francisco
doesn't get earthquakes..."
--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
Finger me for my geek code
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 10:48:47 BST
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: P Ward <P.Ward@**.CF.AC.UK>
Subject: Sioux Cops (was Magic or Tech)
Gurth said :
> Don't forget that most Sioux-sector "police" are actually ex-Wildcat
special
> forces, so these guys know how to kick ass better than the average street cop.
Funny you should mention that...
Personally I believe that there are far to many Wild-cats running around
out of the service, if you believe all the rumours. The country hasn't been
around long enough to generate that many millions of the buggers. Not to
mention o use drekky police equipment (which is quite good in the SS, but
there ya go).
I've solved the problem, they have approximately 2 hours to find a way
to defeat the magical tracking (they have no mage, all the players come
down firmly in the Sammy side of the magic vs Tech argument) before a REAL
unit of Wild-cats comes to get them (they've killed about ten cops now,
the government has got interested), Wild-cats with full support, and mil-spec
gear.
It's funny, the other GM's on the list seemed to find that theur players
had no problems with Divided Assets, mine have excellent combat abilities,
and a seemingly innate sense of small-unit tactics (mostly...), but hardly
any idea how to carry out non-combat tasks, still they'll learn...
Or maybe the next generation will...
Phil (Runs-With-The-Pack)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 10:49:01 BST
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: P Ward <P.Ward@**.CF.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Questions - my own, not anyone elses
> I'd never noticed it either, but I think I'd handle it like this: only stage
> it up if the grenade is on "Impact" and then only for the target that gets
> hit _directly_ by the grenade. If it blows up under his/her feet, use the
> base damage without staging it, but if someone fires a grenade launcher at
> someone else's stomach area stage it up (hey, I did that already...)
Yewah, that's what I originally did bfore someone apprised me of the grenade
staging rules. I ruled a direct hit was a deadly.
But now I use the staging, for all targets (Though I'll probably implement a
+2 "Second-Target" Tno Penalty (for staging the damage only, not for scatter),
for any target that is not the intended one, all, Grenades kill room fulls of
people at a time, and they are supposed to be unpleasant.
Phil (Runs-With-The-Pack)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 10:55:08 BST
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: P Ward <P.Ward@**.CF.AC.UK>
Subject: Top-cat story
Nice story over on the SR web pages BTW, more stuff for me to steal and
use in my own campaign.
I have a question though? do you have a background worked out for top-cat?
It's just he has an awful amount of good cyber/bio fitted for a guy just
out on his first Run....
Oh yeah, and it's nice to see someone else who uses Synpatic Accalerator's,
my Players won't touch em, but then they pay ten times as much as a regular
air-fare, and get smuggled in-country.
Phil (Runs-With-The-Pack and Renegade)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 10:58:10 BST
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: P Ward <P.Ward@**.CF.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Magic or Tech...
Top-cat wrote:
> Quick question... How many GM's out there (players feel free to answer for
> your GM) apply lighting and cover mods to spells? They do have to see the
> target, right? Mirrored glass on buildings and vehicles poses another
> threat to casters.
All the time man, gone are the days of 2 TNo fire-fights, unles you're stupid
enough to get into a fight in a nice brightly-lit corp HQ corridor.
I apply Lighting mods to all spells that need them, combat and DM's mostly,
and cover effects to DM's only, to make up for their low target number.
Most of the rest of the time, only Injury mod's are supposed to count anyway.
Phil (Runs-With-The-Pack)/
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 19:32:35 +0930
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Questions
In-Reply-To: <9504050937.AA09012@********.cm.cf.ac.uk> from "P Ward" at
Apr 5,
95 10:37:23 am
P Ward wrote:
>
> Robert Watkins said :-
> > Hit a projecting mage, and they die. Pure and simple. Inject sedatives, and
> > the needle will kill them. Use patches, or gas, and it might knock them
> > unconcious. Any drug which has deleterious (that's BAD) effects will
> > probably kill them.
>
> Hey, since when did that happen, that house rule or official?
>
Official. Check out the Astral Projection rules. It states (paraphrasing,
as I don't have it with me): "The slightest injury to the mage's body while
Astrally Projecting can result in death".
One DM I knew extended this to include bumps taken in traffic.
> If that is indeed the case, then I've been missing a new way to scare off
> those annoying astral scouts, who make partially prepared targets such a
> nightmare.
> D'ya have any semi "real-world" explanation for that, or is it just in the
> grimmy?
Main book, in the Astral Projection section. Real world explanation: it's
based on myths, I think, about the body being vulnerable when the soul is
absent.
--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
Finger me for my geek code
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 11:10:05 BST
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: P Ward <P.Ward@**.CF.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Questions - my own, not anyone elses
> And then get the Flechette versions.... I believe that will be 15D(f).
> And that is some pain. Even WITH double impact.
Arghh, someone who uses flechette's, drekky little things.
Those damn Anti-personnel grenades only count as D damage against an
unarmoured target, they are flechettes after all... Unless of course you
rule that they count as a D if _any_ of the target is unarmoured (Hey now,
there's an idea, they won't lagh at AP again), but that would also be the
case with regular flechete/bucky rounds?
Big burst grenades in a small smapce is definitely the way to go, an IPE
grenade will certainly be washed back by an exterior wall, and turn your
target to hamburger.
Phil (Runs-With-The-Pack).
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 12:11:19 +0200
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Magic/Tech
In-Reply-To: <lfH8+x9KUjA@*****_mail.jet> from "Philip Hayward" at Apr 4,
95 04:17:17 pm
> > Well there is always supression fire :) and a litle paranoia can get you
> > a long way ....
>
> But a lot of paranoia can help you get nowhere fast. Except to have
> empty magazines and lead lined walls :)
This is true, however the shadows make me sometimes wonder if its
at possible to be too paranoid :)
> Hence my cat-shamans favourite spells:
> (chaos/chaotic world, invisibility all for that extra touch of confusion :)
> Illusion spells are by far the best (lower drain to boot)
I fully agree, Illusions absolutely rule BTW I have a pretty funny story
about a pretty cool illusion and the highest TN our other GM ever managed to
beat :) We broke into this apartment when the cops started pouring in -
I was sweating my ass off sustaining 4 invisibility spells :) when I
decided to do something about (a good offence is thebest defence after all)
so I used my nifty all-purpose illusion spell to create a rather large
explosion outside the building near the cops cars :) If I remember correctly
I got about 12 successes (after droping the illusions that is) that meant
that the copps had to top a TN of 24 .... and guess what one of them
managed to see through it *AAARGH!!!* I have never seen so many sixes :)
It goes to show that its better to be lucky than to be good ...
--
"Believe in Angels." -- The Crow
GCS d H s+: !g p1 !au a- w+ v-(?) C++++ UA++S++L+>++++ L+>+++ E--- N++ W(+)(---)
M-- !V(--) -po+(---) Y+ t++ 5++ R+++ tv b++ e+ u++(-) h*(+) f+ r- n!(-) y?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 20:14:03 +1000
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Damion Milliken <adm82@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Magic or Tech...
In-Reply-To: <9504030210.AA27000@******.net> from "Bob Ooton" at Apr 2,
95 09:10:54 pm
Bob Ooton writes:
> OK, after lurking here for a while I seem to find a common thread amongst
> the people who usually talk on this list. You all seem to _HATE_ street
> samurai and make life very rough on them while making things very easy on
> mages, phys ads, etc. Is it just me or is there an EXTREME magic bias here?
> Answer honestly...are you biased toward magic, tech, or do you
> (miraculously) play a balance?
I would have said the complete opposite actually. Most every time magic is
discussed on here, the eventual resolution is to crack down on magicians or
the magic rules. Take the spell locks for example. When "spell locks in your
mouth" came up, the solution wasn't "yeah, that'd be a grand idea", it was
"not fragging likely to work", followed by xxx reasons why not. Magic is
probably a more common thread on here because it is so different from our
real lives. Technology, and even things such as advanced cybertech are not
completely alien to us, while magic is. It does generally seem to me however
that when new suggestions for rules and abiltiies/etc are made, they
invariabley relate to magic. People often suggest new metamagical abilities
for initiates for example, but new cyberware for sammies rarely comes up. I
do, however, feel that people seem to have a bias towards phys adepts (and I
pointed this out recently). Myself I have a bias towards magicans, because
they are much more interesting to me than sammies, which I find, well,
mundane. <grin>
------------------
Mike Ruane writes:
> Bad guys also tend to think the guy with the gyro-mounted vindicator is
> much more threatening than the mage who's moving with 2d6.
Haven't you ever heard the call "Geek the mage!"? I, and many others hear it
often. _Any_ magically active opponent is the prime target, not the
mundanes. Generalising (I know there are plenty of contradictory examples,
but I said generally, and it is that I have found it this way in my
experience), magicians have the capacity to deal out huge amounts of damage
in avery short timespan, with not too many side effects or restrictions.
This makes them feared opponents, and hence prime targets. That and the fact
that after the enemies magician is dead, your sides magician becomes _soo_
much more effective.
-----------------
Bob Ooton writes:
> > Come, now. Admittedly most people limit their abilities for role-playing
> > when they choose the Samurai, this is not always the case.
>
> Of course it's not the case! True roleplayers >can< play anything. Is it
> harder to roleplay a samurai than a mage? Hell, no!
I do tend to notice that those who are not very good role-players usually go
for the samurais in most of my games though. I don't know how representative
this is though, since most others on here seem to indicate that the power
gamers/munchkins go for the magicians in their games.
> > Any mage that still (all of them want to try it once) has a quickened or
> > locked incr.reflexws +3 spell and uses it often has a *very* linient GM.
>
> Show of hands (or bytes as it were)...how many of you have "lenient GM's"?
> <G>
Well, my players (the magicians anyhow) use quickened and spell locked +3
Reflexes very often. Actually, about once or twice a run. <evil GM grin>.
Just because they use them often does not mean I am lenient (it just means
they are slow leaners :-)).
> Quick question... How many GM's out there (players feel free to answer for
> your GM) apply lighting and cover mods to spells? They do have to see the
> target, right? Mirrored glass on buildings and vehicles poses another
> threat to casters.
I do, all the time, assuming I remember (which is mostly, unless I am
extremely hassled out, or am ignoring all visiblity modifiers in the name of
quicker combat due to less TN calculating and easier shooting). The cover
mods are one of the few things which make magic managable, otherwise it
would be way too effective - heaps better than a firearm.
--
Damion Milliken Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: adm82@***.edu.au
(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+@ H s++:-- !g p0 !au a19 w+ v(?) C++ US++>+++ P+ L !3
E? N K- W M@ !V po@ Y+ t+ 5 !j R+(++) G(+)('''') !tv(--@)
b++ D B? e+$ u@ h* f+ !r n----(--)@ !y+
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 20:32:56 +1000
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Damion Milliken <adm82@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Questions - my own, not anyone elses
In-Reply-To: <199504030915.AA08219@***.xs4all.nl> from "Gurth" at Apr 3,
95 11:15:34 am
Gurth writes:
> > 1. Do you guy's see the penalty to healing spell TNo's due to Bioware
> > as a modification of the TNo, or a penalty; ie. can you centre
> > vs it.
>
> I use it as a TN modification, so no centering against it. Of course with a
> Centering skill of 1, the character's not bound to reduce many penalties :)
I'd say that you couldn't use centering against it, because of the bit whuch
goes: "No way around this porbelm exists at the current time, though
researchers are diligently searching for a solution." And S-Tech was
produced after the Grimything, so the author would have teken the Grimything
(and hence centering) into account.
---------------------
Jani Fikouras writes:
> This makes sence, as a 10S is definitely far too wimpy to impress
> a runner. But I dont think that the official rules allow the staging
> of damage for grenades - I mean what can you do to make a grenade more
> effective other than get it closer to its target ?
Well, while the official rules say you can stage grenades (and
missles/rockets/mortars etc), I cannot see just how it is justified myself.
The staging represents superior aiming/placement/etc of the shot by the
firer. How can you do this with an area effect, indirect fire weapon? It
makes no sense to me. But if you don't use it (as I don't), then you need to
adjust the grenade damage codes to reflect their true destructive ability. I
suggest merely changing the damage to Deadly is an effective solution.
--
Damion Milliken Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: adm82@***.edu.au
(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+@ H s++:-- !g p0 !au a19 w+ v(?) C++ US++>+++ P+ L !3
E? N K- W M@ !V po@ Y+ t+ 5 !j R+(++) G(+)('''') !tv(--@)
b++ D B? e+$ u@ h* f+ !r n----(--)@ !y+
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 20:59:59 +1000
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Damion Milliken <adm82@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Wards
In-Reply-To: <950403155931_70311255@***.com> from "Thomas R Gillette" at
Apr
3, 95 03:59:32 pm
Thomas R Gillette writes:
> Also, what would those that wanted to take down the ward do? Would they
> enter into combat with the ward? So the mage that tried to take down the
> ward of level twelve would roll dice equal to his magic, against the force
> of the ward, while the ward would roll dice equal to its force against the
> mage. Then whomever got the most successes would get to reduce the power of
> the other by the number of extra successes. Or is there another way
Yep, as far as the rules go, the only way to get rid of a ward is beat it up
in astral combat. But to do this, the attacking magician makes an astral
combat attack (which uses Sorcery, or Unarmed, or Armed if he has a weapon
focus), not his Magic Attribute. And the damage resulting is applied to the
damage track of the one who ends up worse off.
> Can mundanes walk across the ward that it does not exist?
A ward will only effect astral presences, so mundanes (as long as they have
no active spell locks or quickened/sustained spells) can cross them without
even knowing the ward is there.
> What happens of a mage with a level 1 or 2 foci tries to walk (physically)
> through such a ward? Would it stop him from entering the protected area? Or
> would it destroy/disable the foci. Or is there no effect other than to keep
> spells from being cast into the ward, and stop traveling astrally into the
> complex?
Since the focus is active (I assume it is), then it has an astral presence,
so the ward will attack it. The magician could not pass until either the
ward or the focus was destroyed/turned off. (Note that this makes for a bit
of an odd thought, how does something with no pshycial presence (the ward)
stop the magician from passing? It blocks the astral form of the focus,
sure, and until the focus is destroyed the focus canot pass, but it seems
kinda like a stretch to me that it would also apply to the magician
holding/wearing the focus. Hmm, dual creatures would be unable to pass
through wards, right?)
-----------------------
Matt Hufstetler writes:
> I've been mulling over the rules for wards, and decided they suck.
> That whole damaging buisness doesn't sound right. It sounds right when a
> astrally active being tries to cross the ward. But wouldn't it make more
> sense to do an opposed force test between the other things? Reducing the
> rating by the extra successes? That would make them a lot more effective.
It would, yes. I don't really know why FASA suddenly decided in the
Grimything II to give inanimate objects like wards and foci damage tracks.
The Force/Rating reduction system used in the basic rules seemed much easier
and simpler to me too. As it is you need a ward of at least rating 6 to have
a chance of killing an focus, since the moment the focus undergoes an attack
(and takes, say a serious wound), the magician can simply not move through
the ward, and the foucs instantly "re-heals" its damage (see the
Grimything). It's kinda silly if you ask me, it makes low power wards a lot
les useful (although they still prohibit you entering unless you deactiavte
the focus I guess).
--------------------
Menard Steve writes:
> [Stealthy anit-ward techniques]
> Anybody ever done this?
Nope, but it certainly sounds like a good idea to me. Do you have any
thoughts? Because as it is, the only way to get past a ward is to bash the
crap out of it, which is not really stealthy at all. But also notice that
Sams method of getting through the barrier (it was a barrier, not a ward)
could easily be interpreted as the initiate ability of Dispelling. But I
still think you have a good idea.
--
Damion Milliken Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: adm82@***.edu.au
(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+@ H s++:-- !g p0 !au a19 w+ v(?) C++ US++>+++ P+ L !3
E? N K- W M@ !V po@ Y+ t+ 5 !j R+(++) G(+)('''') !tv(--@)
b++ D B? e+$ u@ h* f+ !r n----(--)@ !y+
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 1980 07:22:33 +0100
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: ATREIDE - Aymeric RICHARD <arichard@****.IRESTE.FR>
Subject: Re: Magic or Tech...
Feanor said :
> No samies are *much* more deadly than mages. A simple example can illustrate
> this. A mage casting manaball has a TN equall to the willpower of the target
> (this means a 5 - 6 when dealing with someone of any worth) and risks damaging
> himself. A sammie has a TN of 2 (almost) anytime (almost) anyplace. A mage
> with a sorcery of 6 (pretty standard) get to roll force-of-spell-dice+allocate
> pool-dice this summ will almost invariably be less than 12 even if the spell
> is of force 6. A Sammie with a skill of 6 always gets his base 6 dice + any
> pool dice (a samies combat pool ranges for 7-9 dice for starters). Needless
> to say that a sammie doesnt have to worry about drain and its in his best
> interest to use all the available pool dice to kill his opponent ASAP. This
> is an (nearly) constant 12 dice.
As a nice GM, I advise myt players to have a willpower of 3 as a VERY minimum.
Most have 4+. Any merc having 2 in willpower is already dead or about to be.
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| "Enjoy your life, it's so short when you have a Dragon in front of you..." |
| |
| Aymeric RICHARD - Atreide on IRC E-Mail : arichard@****.ireste.fr |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 1980 07:28:47 +0100
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: ATREIDE - Aymeric RICHARD <arichard@****.IRESTE.FR>
Subject: Re: Earthdawn<--->Shadowrun
P Ward wrote :
> Hey, this earthdawn page isn't working....
>
> Do I have the wrong URL, or is access limited?
>
> Phil (Runs-With-The-Pack
> who believes the Earthdawn URL is:
> http://www.icis.qut.edu.au/%chrisr/earthdawn.html
>
http://www.icis.qut.edu.au/~chrisr/earthdawn.html
is working from here (France)
if you tried http://www.icis.qut.edu.au/%chrisr/earthdawn.html
you will not access anything : this is ~chrisr not %chrisr
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| "Enjoy your life, it's so short when you have a Dragon in front of you..." |
| |
| Aymeric RICHARD - Atreide on IRC E-Mail : arichard@****.ireste.fr |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 13:26:24 +0200
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: IMHO???
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.87.9504041655.B18692-0100000@******.engin.umich.edu> from
"Marc A Renouf" at Apr 4, 95 04:40:55 pm
> Not to be confused with:
>
> IM(NS)HO (In My [Not So] Humble Opinion...)
> AFAIK (As Far As I Know...)
> OTOH (On The Other Hand...)
> DLOH (Dark Lord On High, a reference to Tom Dowd)
RTFM mentioned by our FL
FL Fearless Leader
RLF Real LiFe
BRB Be Right Back
BTW By The Way
FYI For Your Information
--
"Believe in Angels." -- The Crow
GCS d H s+: !g p1 !au a- w+ v-(?) C++++ UA++S++L+>++++ L+>+++ E--- N++ W(+)(---)
M-- !V(--) -po+(---) Y+ t++ 5++ R+++ tv b++ e+ u++(-) h*(+) f+ r- n!(-) y?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 13:36:44 +0200
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Magic or Tech...
In-Reply-To: <9504042157.AA18269@******.net> from "Bob Ooton" at Apr 4,
95 04:57:45 pm
> Finally, someone who knows how to balance a game <G>
Well that does it, I am fed up with this all mage-players are munchkins
holier than thou attitude! I and other listmembers have given you every curtesy
and tried to make it clear that no one here has any bias toward street samurai.
And yet you insist on flaming everyone that does not share your hate of mages
and making impossible remarks about things you obviously know nothing about.
This list has always supported a very conservative attitude as far as
magic is concerned, we have always tried to enforce the "disadvantages" of
magic in order to make it more playable and not such a pain in the butt
of the other players. But Mr. Join-The-List-And-Flame-Em Knowitall here
always knows better.....
--
"Believe in Angels." -- The Crow
GCS d H s+: !g p1 !au a- w+ v-(?) C++++ UA++S++L+>++++ L+>+++ E--- N++ W(+)(---)
M-- !V(--) -po+(---) Y+ t++ 5++ R+++ tv b++ e+ u++(-) h*(+) f+ r- n!(-) y?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 13:46:10 +0200
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Paul J. Adam's posts in regard to the Magic/tech issue
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9504042233.A5401-0100000@********.io.com> from "Tim
Serpas" at Apr 4, 95 10:52:42 pm
> I've seen a couple of web pages with character histories and annecdotes, and
> enjoyed them quite a bit. I've been thinking about doing some archives of
> our own group, even.
>
> So what's the level of interest? Will the bandwidth be too much?
By all means, I am looking forward to reading them.
--
"Believe in Angels." -- The Crow
GCS d H s+: !g p1 !au a- w+ v-(?) C++++ UA++S++L+>++++ L+>+++ E--- N++ W(+)(---)
M-- !V(--) -po+(---) Y+ t++ 5++ R+++ tv b++ e+ u++(-) h*(+) f+ r- n!(-) y?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 13:47:16 +0200
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: My questions V
In-Reply-To: <199504050842.AA00452@***.xs4all.nl> from "Gurth" at Apr 5,
95 10:42:46 am
> > No I dont think so, its as gurth said, masking can hide your power and
> >a mage could even change his "exterior", but if someone really knows
you
> >(knows your aura) and directly looks at you - there is no way to hide from
> >him.
>
> This brings me to something I've been wondering about for some time: if
> you've only ever seen someone's astral self, would you recognize him if you
> met him on the physical plane (with or without assensing him)? I mean, your
> "idealized self-image" can look _very_ different from what you look like in
> everyday life...
I'd say that you cant unless you percieve for a while and take a peek at
his astral form.
--
"Believe in Angels." -- The Crow
GCS d H s+: !g p1 !au a- w+ v-(?) C++++ UA++S++L+>++++ L+>+++ E--- N++ W(+)(---)
M-- !V(--) -po+(---) Y+ t++ 5++ R+++ tv b++ e+ u++(-) h*(+) f+ r- n!(-) y?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 13:59:50 +0200
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Questions - my own, not anyone elses
In-Reply-To: <199504051032.UAA27110@******.cc.uow.edu.au> from "Damion
Milliken" at Apr 5, 95 08:32:56 pm
> > This makes sence, as a 10S is definitely far too wimpy to impress
> > a runner. But I dont think that the official rules allow the staging
> > of damage for grenades - I mean what can you do to make a grenade more
> > effective other than get it closer to its target ?
>
> Well, while the official rules say you can stage grenades (and
> missles/rockets/mortars etc), I cannot see just how it is justified myself.
> The staging represents superior aiming/placement/etc of the shot by the
> firer. How can you do this with an area effect, indirect fire weapon? It
> makes no sense to me. But if you don't use it (as I don't), then you need to
> adjust the grenade damage codes to reflect their true destructive ability. I
> suggest merely changing the damage to Deadly is an effective solution.
Sounds cool, I'll try it next time *evil GM grin*
--
"Believe in Angels." -- The Crow
GCS d H s+: !g p1 !au a- w+ v-(?) C++++ UA++S++L+>++++ L+>+++ E--- N++ W(+)(---)
M-- !V(--) -po+(---) Y+ t++ 5++ R+++ tv b++ e+ u++(-) h*(+) f+ r- n!(-) y?
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 1980 08:14:17 +0100
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: ATREIDE - Aymeric RICHARD <arichard@****.IRESTE.FR>
Subject: Re: Earthdawn<--->Shadowrun
> Apparently, Penn State's machines can't figure out the address. Does
> anyone know the IP number? Chris?
>
> --Craig
Try http://131.181.70.41/~chrisr/earthdawn.html
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| "Enjoy your life, it's so short when you have a Dragon in front of you..." |
| |
| Aymeric RICHARD - Atreide on IRC E-Mail : arichard@****.ireste.fr |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 09:11:45 EDT
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: U-Gene <C14101@*******.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Mage bias
In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 4 Apr 1995 17:08:29 -0500 from
<topcat@**.CENCOM.NET>
Bob Oaton writes:
>> U-Gene writes...
>> <snip> about Billy the phys ad gunfighter and Kernal the street sam
>> <snip> about Billy being best shot in the party...
>> (I believe someone mentioned Phy ads weren't as tough as sammies?)
>
>Tough? Compare Billy to the Kernal. My guess is that, while Billy could well
>be the a better shot(i.e. higher firearms skill), a)he can't take a bullet
>as well...
Well your right there. (bod=4 and of course no cyber or bio) :)
>b)doesn't have NEAR the combat pool the Kernal has...
About the same. (billy 9, kernal 10. I believe)
>c)doesn't have as wide a variety of skills...
About the same. Kernal spent most Karma on stats and aquiring a good drive
skill (just got VCR 1 not to long ago). Billy has SCUBA and you wouldn't have
guessed it, SURFING! 2 or 3 dice I think. (The group had participated in
Paradise Lost and Billy couldn't help himself)
>d)is slower...
Not by much. Although I use the house rule Phys Ads can by wired reflex
equivelant costing 2,3,5 magic points. I feel they got the shaft here.
>e)doesn't see as well at night...
Billy sees better then the Kernal at night. Billy has natural low-light
vision (bought with Magic) which I believe reduces darkness penalties.
>f)anything else that will be evident once you look at the character sheets.
I looked at the character sheets, and they looked relatively even. Although
Billy is a better shot, the Kernal can take more damage.
But looking again I'd say in most combat situations, the Kernal does have
an advantage.
>But you know what? I have to congradulate whoever plays Billy for being his
>own character. Kudos to ya, whoever you are!
Billy is played by my brother Matt. His charater never uses anything other
Warhawks, his custom made lever action rifle, and his newly acquired double
barrel shotgun, all traditional western guns. (Well, he's been forced by
other players to use a silenced Predator occasionally since his other weapons
can't be silenced!) I thank you for your compliment on Matt's behalf.
Thanks Bob for posting to this posting. I believe, as do most of my players
that a good character concept is most important of all in making a character.
Kernal: "What are you doing behind me?"
Billy: "I figured I'd get cover bonus. <grin>"
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 10:52:33 EDT
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: U-Gene <C14101@*******.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Magic or Tech...
In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 4 Apr 1995 18:49:31 -0500 from
<topcat@**.CENCOM.NET>
Bob Oaton writes:
>Quick question... how many GMs out there (players feel free to answere for
>your GM) apply lighting and cover modifiers to spells? They do have to see
>the target, right? Mirrored glass on buildings and vehicles poses another
>threat to casters.
>
>ah well...lets see how this one fares the list...
I apply cover and vision mods all the time. Otherwise Havoc, the party mage,
would be almost as tought as the rest of the team put together! I use
mirrored glass fairly often (what GM wants a helicopter full of Fuchi strike
team members crashing because the mage shot the pilot with a mana bolt?)
I do have a hard time limiting him because, well, he is a little bit of a
munchkin. But at least he has a good character concept, one of those few
times I'll stand for a powermonger is for a good character concept.
(1920 untouchables type gangster who's trademark are his white pin stripe
suits, in case you were interested)
Havoc: "Sheesh, that guy almost HURT me."
Bob : "Could you pick up my arm?"
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 11:12:37 -0400
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Menard Steve <menars@***.UMONTREAL.CA>
Subject: New spell part II, comments again?
Well, here are two other spells I made for some NPC's. They both stretch
what is and is not feasable is the SR universe , so depending on your view
of magic, they might not be appropriate. I'd like your comments on those.
**************************************************************
*** The material contain there-in is of my own creation ***
*** If it violates copyrights or anything, please advise ***
*** me and I will retract it as soon as possible ***
**************************************************************
New Spell :
Regeneration :
--------------
Purpose : Health
This spell was inspired by the Awakened Ability Regeneration. Though
it is nowhere as poerful as the original power, this spell does come in han=
dy
sometimes. The caster imbues the target with a dormant spell. Once the targ=
et
is hurt (ANY wound at all, be it only biting your tongue or slapping your=
forehead!) will activate it. Once it is activated, it will stay activated u=
ntil
the target becomes unconscious(either through sleep or combat). Then, he ta=
kes
drain.
What the spell does it tap into the targets energy reserves to improve
it's healing capacity. In effect the target heals one box after each initia=
tive
rolls(or every 3 seconds) up to the level of damage that was sustained BEFO=
RE
the spell was cast. There are no theorical limit to the number of boxes tha=
t can
be healed. If the target falls unconscious because of stun or physical dama=
ge, or
even normal sleep, the spell is terminated and releases its drain upon the =
target.
when the spell stops the target suffers [total boxes healed/4]D drain resis=
ted with
Body or Willpower(whichever is higher). Yes, it can kill someone!
The unstable nature of the spell prevents someone from always having one
active, normal life consists of constant little wounds that would trigger t=
he
healing process.
Type : Mana Duration : permanent(20) Target : 10-Essence+BodyCost
Range : Touch Drain : [(F/2)+3]D
Astral Blind :
--------------
Purpose : Manipulation
This spell generates an astral construct, ehich in turn generates
thousands of small astral entities, formal a web(spherical or wall, same ru=
les
and size as Barrier spell). This "blind" can be moved by the caster by usin=
g a
simple action.
Any astral tests involving perception through the blind (i.e. assensing =
or
spellcasting) do so at a target number penalty equal to half the successes =
generated
when creating the blind.
Type : Mana Duration : Sustained Target : 4
Range : LOS Drain : [(F/2)+1]S
---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-
--- |\_/| Still The One and Only Wolfbane! --=
-
--- |o o| " Hey! Why ya lookin' at me so weird? Ain't ya 'ver seen a --=
-
--- \ / decker witha horn ?" --- Scy, Troll decker with a Cý =
---
--- 0 Steve Menard menars@***.UMontreal.Ca --=
-
---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 11:07:46 EDT
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: U-Gene <C14101@*******.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Magic or Tech...
In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 5 Apr 1995 00:37:55 GMT from
<Paul@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Paul Jonathan Adam writes:
> <<snip>> about rarity of betaware and price
>
>And if you're good enough to pull in the money for betaware, you have enough
>enemies you'll need it...
Ha-ha! Don't my players know it. <evil GM grin>
Billy: "You let him get away Bob!"
Kernal: "Just add him to the List."
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 11:23:01 -0400
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Menard Steve <menars@***.UMONTREAL.CA>
Subject: New armor.
Following the spells I posted, here are the power-armors. Some of you
will probably consider them munchkinous, but since they're not destined
to fall in players hand, it should be ok.
**************************************************************
*** The material contain there-in is of my own creation ***
*** If it violates copyrights or anything, please advise ***
*** me and I will retract it as soon as possible ***
**************************************************************
New Armor :
-----------
Cyber Power-Armors
------------------
The armors ar the latest advance in trooper technology. Brought to you
by a small UCAS company, the represent the most advance or non-implant cybe=
r-
technology.
Combining personnal protection with state-of-the-art stealth tech,
those babies will make old-style warfare obsolete.
Two type are presently available : Special-Ops and Shock Trooper.
Both will give your employees that extra edge WITHOUT having to suffer thro=
ugh
extensive surgery! Furthermore, if an employee dies, you still have that su=
it of
armor! A simple 2-week acclimatation procedure will let your troops use the
armors capability to its fullest. The only cyberware needed is our custom
interface module.
Special-Ops
-----------
- Slightly more bulky than traditional Heavy Armor, same
protection value! (9/7 with helmet)
- Full-featured helmet(Smart-goggles, thermal/low-light
imaging system, comm. suite(8 channels, crypto-4), Battle-Tac
system )
- Integrated weapons-system(gauntlet smartlink)
- Increased Speed and Strength (level 2 wired ref.,
+1 strength(max 5),
+2 quickness(max 7))
- Poly-mimetic alloy and cooling systems provides
unparalled Stealth Modes(standard or advanced) includes
visual and thermal masking. (Target number of 4 to notice
in standard mode, 6 in advanced.
Note that stealth mode is useless
in broad daylight!)
- Long-term autonomy. (The armor can function for 16 hours before
needing a recharge. Stealth mode has 120
stealth-minutes. Standard mode uses 1
s/m per minute. Advanced consumes 2 per
minute. Those system uses separed power
suppplies. If the armor looses power it acts
as normal Full heavy armor but with increased
weight.)
Shock Trooper
-------------
- Built on the award-winning Heavy mil-grade Armor
- Full-Featured helmet
- Integrated Weapons-system
- Increased speed and strength ( level 1 wired ref.
no combat pool loss,
+2 Strength(max 7)
+1 Quickness(max 5) )
- Provides the same capabilities as mil-grade armor(
Hardened , battle-tac)
Con Prot. Value Weight Availability Cost/Index
Special-Ops --- 9/7 Body+17 36/2 mth 1,500,000 / 3
Shock-Troop --- 16/12 Body+20 46/2 mth 1,750,000 / 3
ess. Cost Availability Index
Interface .5 5000 18/2 mth 3
Note : although most of the armor itself can be shared among person
of the same bulk, the helmet, which houses a small computer,
may not. The suit(through the helmet and the interface module)
"learn" to adapt itself to the trooper. A period of 2-weeks is
needed to achive the "symbiosis".
---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-
--- |\_/| Still The One and Only Wolfbane! --=
-
--- |o o| " Hey! Why ya lookin' at me so weird? Ain't ya 'ver seen a --=
-
--- \ / decker witha horn ?" --- Scy, Troll decker with a Cý =
---
--- 0 Steve Menard menars@***.UMontreal.Ca --=
-
---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 11:32:59 -0400
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Scott Taylor Spencer <sts100z@********.CC.ODU.EDU>
Subject: Re: "Wimpy" Archtypes
In-Reply-To: <9504042142.AA17996@******.net>
On Tue, 4 Apr 1995, Bob Ooton wrote:
> > In addition, I'll make one more comment. Whether one archtype is
> >any easier to roleplay than another is another pointless argument. A
> >good roleplayer will take the simplest thing and do it very well. A
> >lousy roleplayer can take the most interesting thing and do it poorly.
> >So it depends on the player and NOT the archtype.
>
> EXACTLY!!! Bravo, Marc!! Kudos to ya!!
>
> -- Bob Ooton <topcat@******.net>
>
Thank you, thank you, thank you (abject groveling) Finally someone has
seen the light Hallauahja praise DLOH. Now lets throw another wrench in
the works. Everyone is muttering about the effectiveness of mage-types
and sammies in combat, what about a detection/cerebral run? In my
games, most the players have gotten smart and devoted a least a quarter
of their net assets to contacts and buddies regardless of magical
orientation. ALSO why not compromise, my best player is a cybered mage.
--Scott SPencer <sts100z@********.cc.odu.edu>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 10:14:08 CDT
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Walter Stim <wstim%avma27@*************.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: Were-creatures
I a question concerning Were-creatures.
1. If a were-creature bits someone do they become a were?
A. Yes
B. No
2. Can the victim (bitee) be cured before possible becoming a were?
A. Yes
B. No
3. What would the tests/target numbers for curing/cleansing?
Any answers would be most helpful. Thank you in advance.
Michael Stim
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 14:19:16 -0400
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: "J.D. Falk" <jdfalk@****.CAIS.COM>
Organization: Schroedinger's Cats
Subject: Re: Were-creatures
In-Reply-To: <SHADOWRN%95040517391574@***.SURFNET.NL>
On Wed, 5 Apr 1995, Walter Stim wrote:
> I a question concerning Were-creatures.
Read the novels _Striper Assassin_ and _Who Hunts the Hunter_,
both by Nyx Smith (the latter book just came out) -- both focus heavily
on a were-tiger. Very interesting character.
> 1. If a were-creature bits someone do they become a were?
I'd tend to doubt it, though all the people that Striper bit
became dead. From what I've been able to pick up, though, were-creatures
are awakened or "paranormal" animals at heart, and are not humans under
some magic spell or some such.
-------------========== J.D. Falk <jdfalk@****.com> =========-------------
| "Without News I am nothing..." |
| -Mark Holmes, Newsadmin, Capital Area INTERNET Service |
--------========== http://www.cais.com/jdfalk/home.html ==========--------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 13:26:52 -0500
Reply-To: "Brett H. Barnhart" <bhbarnha@**********.org>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: "Brett H. Barnhart" <bhbarnha@**********.ORG>
Subject: PBEM players needed
Greeting fellow Runners,
I am restarting up a PBEM ShadowRun campaign. Currently, I have
two players, so I have 4 slots open. Here are a few basic groundrules and
ideas.
1. We will be playing with 2nd edition rules, although 1st edition
characters will be OK.
2. I have just about all of the source books, so you are free to use them
all in character generation. Note: You do not need a fresh character
(although feel free to use one if you wish).
3. We will be trying to move fairly quickly, so expect to have a new post
daily. Likewise, I expect you to be able to play daily (at least during
the week). This will be running year round, so you will need to have
access during the summer.
4. The main object of this is for everyone to have FUN! Things will be
free flowing. I'm not going to be dictating what your next move will be.
That is up to you. You can take as much or as little time you want on
something. (If you want to spend a week gametime by examining a
particular artifact found, then that is fine).
Character Consideration
I already have a Rigger and a decker (although we could have 2). You will
not be considered until I have a complete character. Feel free to send
the basics and I will let you know if it will be alright. (ie. How about
an Ork Samuri who.... (brief description)). Then I can tell you if that
is a needed character or not. Deadline for application will be in a
couple of days (Say Sunday or Monday). The earlier it is filled up, the
sooner we will start. In other words, it isn't first come, first serve,
but the first 4 chartacters I get who I like will most likely be in. I
will hand-pick characters who i think will get along together well.
If you have any question, feel free to contact me.
Brett Barnhart
bhbarnha@**********.org
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 12:35:10 -0700
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Louis Barrera <lbarrera@****.NASA.GOV>
Subject: Re: My questions V -Reply
Comments: To: gurth@******.NL
Gurth writes:
This brings me to something I've been wondering about for some time: if
you've only ever seen someone's astral self, would you recognize him if
you met him on the physical plane (with or without assensing him)? I
mean, your
"idealized self-image" can look _very_ different from what you look like in
everyday life...
I write:
Depends on whether you feel generous. I give them a Magic rating test
(base rating, not augmented by foci, initiation ok) with a TN of 8, with
modifiers for the amount of time dealing with the astral image, masking,
level of initiation, nature of the being, appearance on the physical. This is
without assensing.
In answer to another posting, I tend to rake mages over the coals. Well, I
rake sammies over the coals too. Like isn't fair, TANJ.
Lou - TANSTAAFL
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 12:51:07 -0700
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Louis Barrera <lbarrera@****.NASA.GOV>
Subject: Re: Wards -Reply
Comments: To: adm82@***.EDU.AU
Damion (etc, etc, etc) writes:
>It would, yes. I don't really know why FASA suddenly decided in the
>Grimything II to give inanimate objects like wards and foci damage
>tracks.
>The Force/Rating reduction system used in the basic rules seemed
>much easier and simpler to me too. As it is you need a ward of at least
>rating 6 to have a chance of killing an focus, since the moment the
>focus undergoes an attack
>(and takes, say a serious wound), the magician can simply not move
>through the ward, and the foucs instantly "re-heals" its damage (see
>the
>Grimything). It's kinda silly if you ask me, it makes low power wards a
>lot les useful (although they still prohibit you entering unless you
>deactiavte the focus I guess).
The only point I can see is that it gives the unknowing mage a chance to
save the item in question. If unknowingly, a mage with a spell lock
attempts to cross a ward, it doesn't immediately trash the lock, unless it
is at least Rating 8 (it needs eight net sucesses to "kill" the item.) The
mage cannot continue through the ward without getting eight net
sucesses either. And the item won't go thru until the combat is resolved,
reguardless of whether the bearer makes it. The game effect is like
moving thru water, it slows down the individual.
Lou - TANSTAAFL
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 16:48:54 -0500
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Bob Ooton <topcat@**.CENCOM.NET>
Subject: Magic/Tech bias...
OK, after watching this thread thoroughly enough...I believe I have seen
what I wanted to. I've learned that many of the people here do play mages
(and are biased in ways towards them, what player wouldn't be biased towards
his char, except me, of course...forced to play a phys ad, but enjoying the
roleplaying if not the game usability. Yep, we're on the first run of this
new team so he isn't all that well brought up yet.) BUT!!!!
For the most part, you (as a group) also enforce the rules a lot more
frequently than I thought was the case.
Yep, I'm admitting I was wrong...
OK, now for what I felt was accomplished.
While watching these I saw many things come across that truly made my day.
Posts about samurai who weren't psyco-clones like "all samurai are, right?"
Mainly, I made the point (and so did many others) that roleplaying is in the
player, not the archetype. Just seeing that posted (over and over and
over...) and agreed upon was truly great. Now I think we all know (if we
didn't before) that samurai can be something other than the stereotype (I
don't like calling it that, because in most cases, a stereotype got to be
that way because it was at least in part true). And people like me realize
that not every mage is a munchkin at heart.
Aside from that, a neat little sidetrack involving strictly combat measures
occurred (the post about sam A and phys ad B, etc...and it's replies). And
that goes along with my "anyone can make a munchkin with a calculator, a
rulebook, and an hour or so free time." And of course there were the "burn
the heretic" posts that I was expecting, most lately Jani's. (I apologize
for implying that he (someone who I can't remember right now...sorry about
that) was the ONLY one who knew how to balance a game...I was merely
impressed by the way he kept everything equalized and based on roleplay more
than "spell A or spell B?" or "Assault Cannon or Silenced Pistols?"
And
should've just thrown some kudos at him, instead.) What else was there to
be learned...that JD sends out an awful lot of FAQ's (heheheheh...) for
whatever reason (innocent look).
Since this does in fact seem to be degenrating into a "my char is
better"/"my rules are better" argument, I'd kinda like it to end if
possible.
I hope that we all learned something from this, I know I did...
-- Bob Ooton <topcat@******.net>
"He who realizes there's a lot more Mohicans...errr...Samurai than he thought"
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 16:54:20 -0500
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Bob Ooton <topcat@**.CENCOM.NET>
Subject: Ares Viper Slivergun
The Ares Viper Slivergun... a most impressive weapon, no?
Here's my question...
Damage is listed at 9S(f)...
It's a light pistol that uses heavy pistol ranges... (so sayeth the rulebook)
So does it do 9S(f) per shot for a 12D(f) three round burst
Or does it do 6M(f) per shot and 9S(f) when firing a burst?
ALSO!
It fires bursts, but it's silenced...
Do you use silencer or sound suppressor mods?
Do you use silencer for single shots and SS for bursts?
-- Bob Ooton
No longer a Mohican... just a guy confused about a weird weapon
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 17:22:59 -0500
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Bob Ooton <topcat@**.CENCOM.NET>
Subject: Re: Magic or Tech...
> Well that does it, I am fed up with this all mage-players are munchkins
>holier than thou attitude! I and other listmembers have given you every curtesy
>and tried to make it clear that no one here has any bias toward street samurai.
>And yet you insist on flaming everyone that does not share your hate of mages
>and making impossible remarks about things you obviously know nothing about.
> This list has always supported a very conservative attitude as far as
>magic is concerned, we have always tried to enforce the "disadvantages" of
>magic in order to make it more playable and not such a pain in the butt
>of the other players. But Mr. Join-The-List-And-Flame-Em Knowitall here
>always knows better.....
And I thought I was done posting about this... (sigh)
Look... I'm not anti-mage, I'm just pro-rules/equalization. There are only
two things keeping me from playing one (1, I know I have munchinous
tendencies, I made a mage and he was pretty damn unbelievable. 2, I know
that if I did play one, I'd consume the campaign (i.e. <me> "I do this!"
<other players> "OK, now where to?"). It might as well be solo, and to
me
there's very little fun in that.)
Also, you seem to be the only one who's lost it over this subject. Were I
REALLY wanting to make arguments, I'd have a field day with this post...
Have I flamed anyone? Not that I know of...
Do I always know better? No, that's why I asked questions...
(would give kudos to Jani for calming purposes, but settles for valium)
Sure, I like samurai more than mages. Samurai is what I play. If I played
a mage, I'd be bored...probably like if you played a samurai you'd be bored.
Am I biased towards samurai? As a player, most definitely...without any
doubt...YES! As a GM, not at all... I treat everyone equally as harsh.
Also (someone) mentioned that inexperienced players seem to grab the samurai
or are given them. The reason that I know of for that is the fact that
samurai require less in the way of knowledge of the game. I've seen newbies
with mages and it's not a pretty sight (it's taken us over 7 sessions and
we're still not through "One Stage Before" although half of this was done
after the newbie's mage got cashed and he made a samurai). They just have
to ask too many questions for the game to move along. Once they get
familiar with it, then all's cool. But getting there is hell itself. But
hey, we all have to learn somehow, right? I, personally would not suggest a
mage to a new player or one who wasn't going to really delve into the rules.
-- Bob Ooton
Hoping this thread will finally die out...
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 17:27:57 -0500
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Bob Ooton <topcat@**.CENCOM.NET>
Subject: Re: Top-cat story
>Nice story over on the SR web pages BTW, more stuff for me to steal and
>use in my own campaign.
By all means...please do! (ego boosted by the thievery!!!)
>I have a question though? do you have a background worked out for top-cat?
>It's just he has an awful amount of good cyber/bio fitted for a guy just
>out on his first Run....
Yeppers. I'll have to edit it a tad, but I'll try to get that posted to
Paolo's board soon also.
>Oh yeah, and it's nice to see someone else who uses Synpatic Accalerator's,
>my Players won't touch em, but then they pay ten times as much as a regular
>air-fare, and get smuggled in-country.
Well, that would be cool for TopCat if he didn't have all the headware.
He's got somewhere in the neighborhood of 3 essence devoted to that alone.
In fact, that's how I ended TopCat's PC career. He got nabbed trying to get
into Tir Tairngire because of all his 'ware. (Though our GM plays that
bioware is also detectable by x-rays. He says they're tailored cancers. To
which I said "what the hell level of radiation are these things using??" He
just smiled...)
Look fo rhis history to pop up in Paolo's page soon!
--- Bob Ooton <topcat@******.net>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 16:39:17 -0700
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Louis Barrera <lbarrera@****.NASA.GOV>
Subject: Flogging C or N
Hoi chummers,
Thanks for the weapon focus read, we all miss something. So missle
weapons are off limits. Question, how does a spear know if it is for
jabbing or if it is for throwing. Or does it only work while in the mages
hand, as stated in the rules. They do say cryptically that this makes it
difficult, but don't say "verboten". But in reference to the comment about
combat in astral space, it refers to the nature of astral space, not the
nature of weapon foci. Still doesn't clarify that line, it just eliminates what
could be used for "ranged attacks". No, I don't have any other grand
ideas, other than spells, or maybe dual natured, astrally projecting
critters with ranged attacks (a long way to say dragon's breath). I'll
bounce it off THE SOURCE and see what comes up.
Damion
>I'd always assumed that to astrally evade someone all you had to do
>was move at very fast speeds through many LOS blocking obstacles.
>Like walls, they block LOS, but not movement. So all you'd have to do
>would be to run through a city block (or an entire city), at top speed,
>while making random deviations left/right/up/down. Works out in the
>wilderness too, you have trees (but you hve to dodge). And should you
>find yourself caught in a desert or something, then at the speeds you
>can travel, you could very easily get to a city in under a combat turn.
Well, the problem with that is if you go by combat phases astrally, the
one who goes first could just move into some labyrinth, no test required.
It would then be up to his opponent to follow, and depending on where
the opponent guessed, they may or may not "see" each other. The
evasion rules state they can be used to disengage, so I can see the
function. But if they are not engaged, I still think it represents getting lost
in the "noise". The "dodging behind a rock" idea is too easily
handled as I
stated above.
> > This explains glass and mirrors, but what if someone discovers
some
> > weird substance that can be used as glass and is only transparent
> > when light hits it. What would be its effect in the astral ?
Damion:
>Err, but if it is only transparent if light hits it, then it is always
>transparent. Nothing is transoarent if there is no light for it to be
>transparent to.
I think it's "state" would reflect (sorry) what was happening on the
physical plane. If it was in light, then it would allow astral perception
through it. And the reverse. Without those on the etheric being aware
of what was occuring on the physical. Another reason I don't go along
with the WYTIWYG theory.
Feanor:
> I agree novels are no rules, but they are canonical and in the absence
>of explicit rulings they certainly do cary a lot of weight.
Well, I don't agree on the weight they carry. Case in point is the quoted
reference. This mage is new to astral, he's pumped up on adrenaline,
and his reference is subjective. The view is clear and crisp in reguards
to what, the dark, dingy room/alley they just left? Artistic license is a two
edged sword. I feel THE RULES are specific enough for the question of
astral noise.
Feanor writes:
> Spells are living entities you create and set on your oponent. Picture
>them as dogs :) Can you pick up a dog and throw him at me ? :)
I am not sure I see the point. As I have been eating my Wheaties, I could
pick up my dog. The "attack" effect might be a little muted, compared to
Fluffy charging you herself, but being pummeled with a 100 LB dog is no
slice either.
Feanor writes:
>Ok here goes again - Why does everyone think I mean that people
>actually change reality *sigh*.
Well, if not change, how about sculpt. Is that closer? Is it like
customizing a deck's reality (or whatever the frag it's called)?
Feanor writes:
>So does thing mean that each newly create object automagicaly gets a
>new nature ? If yes where does it come from ? And what makes that
>new substance "high tech" Its as "high tech" as glass was a coupla
>thousand years ago - was glass back them to "high tech"? I suppose
>you mean that its the objects percieved nature that does the trick - this
>brings us back to WYTIWG(tm) :)
So, ya wanna get metaphysical, eh? It's nature comes from what allows
it to exist in the shape its maker gives it. We only discover all this stuff,
we don't CREATE it. When you make something with Playdough, you
have given the stuff shape. You didn't create Playdough. The act of
processing material refines and alters its "natural" content, bringing it
further and further from the Mana flux/ life energy that flows through
everything. Which is why the TN modifiers. And it is not the perceived
nature. It is the TRUE nature. We only perceive a part of it, normally.
Can you say Tao. It is undefinable, yet the Mother of all things. On the
other hand, I could be wrong. This is personal philosophy.
Feanor writes:
> I think its pretty clear that the mage refers to orbital stations cause
>when the spirit talks about mages wandering the metaplanes and the
>terrible things that happen to them he simple sneers and sez that he
>means something else.
Well, believe what you want, I will take the author's word on what he
meant. The discussion is on the various metaplanes. But Dowd was as
cryptic as all drek, as normal, and I had to cajole him to get that much.
Lou - TANSTAAFL
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 15:34:52 -0700
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: G'Koth of the Narn Regime <esj@***.UUG.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: list.member.grumpy speaks
In-Reply-To: <199504051136.NAA06175@****.informatik.uni-Bremen.de>
On Wed, 5 Apr 1995, Jani Fikouras wrote:
>
> Well that does it, I am fed up with this all mage-players are munchkins
> holier than thou attitude! I and other listmembers have given you every curtesy
> and tried to make it clear that no one here has any bias toward street samurai.
> And yet you insist on flaming everyone that does not share your hate of mages
> and making impossible remarks about things you obviously know nothing about.
> This list has always supported a very conservative attitude as far as
> magic is concerned, we have always tried to enforce the "disadvantages" of
> magic in order to make it more playable and not such a pain in the butt
> of the other players. But Mr. Join-The-List-And-Flame-Em Knowitall here
> always knows better.....
>
Okay Jani, chill. I've been following this thread and _I've_ seen no
real flaming until your post (and I should know about flames).
I must say that I begin to tire of this whole debate. Depending on your
individual game, your individual GM, your individual players, you will
get a very different bias, unique to each game.
On top of this, there is really no point to the current theme of this
arguement, and that is the apparent discussion of what is better, Magic
or Technology. I think we can all agree that each approach has it's own
distinct advantages and disadvatages. In any given situation, my bad-ass
combat mage may get his ass kicked by your ninja physical adept or by
your samurai sniper. And in other situations, my combat mage will take
your boys out without busting a sweat. The same holds true for
non-combat situations. My astral sneaking about is made worthless by
effective wards, which won't be stopped by the riggers stealth drones.
And so on and so forth. Neither magic nor technology is inherently better
over all.
Let me repeat that so you are all clear on it:
Neither magic nor technology is inherently better over all.
And to specifically address Mr. Ooton, I can understand why it might
appear there is a bias towards magic on this group. To paraphrase the
Aussie Guru, Mr. Milliken, it's because we already have a grip on
technology. Magic is strange to most of us (with the exception of those
who claim otherwise), and so we are most often confused by magic, it's
affects, and most fundamentally, it's rules as given by FASA. And
so, it does get discussed rather often. However, technology does get
it's fair share of the discussion time here. Hang around long enough
Mr. Ooton, and I think you'll clearly see this born out.
Now, I am asking as list.member.grumpy that this thread be brought to a
conclusion, over the next several days. People are making valid points,
and it is relevant to the list, but it is beginning to upset people
(Jani), some people like myself begin to be bored with it, and the same
things are starting to be repeated. So please, unless you have something
new to contribute, keep it to yourself, at least until the next time this
topic gets brought up.
In short, for those that don't like to read everything I write, wrap this
thing up over the next couple of days.
Erik, a.k.a. the Whistler
list.member.grumpy
"Weep for the future Na'Toth,
weep for us all."
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 18:52:00 -0400
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Scott Taylor Spencer <sts100z@********.CC.ODU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Ares Viper Slivergun
In-Reply-To: <9504052154.AA00456@******.net>
On Wed, 5 Apr 1995, Bob Ooton wrote:
> The Ares Viper Slivergun... a most impressive weapon, no?
>
> Here's my question...
>
> Damage is listed at 9S(f)...
>
> It's a light pistol that uses heavy pistol ranges... (so sayeth the rulebook)
>
> So does it do 9S(f) per shot for a 12D(f) three round burst
> Or does it do 6M(f) per shot and 9S(f) when firing a burst?
_______________
I would say that it has a base of 9(s) that can be scaled up to 12D(f)>
_______________
> ALSO!
>
> It fires bursts, but it's silenced...
>
> Do you use silencer or sound suppressor mods?
> Do you use silencer for single shots and SS for bursts?
> _____________
> I use the silencer mods, because it is an intergal part of the weapon
and was designed specifically for this reason.
______________>
>
> No longer a Mohican... just a guy confused about a weird weapon
>
_______________________________________________________________________________
"Come Friends Run With me Towards Danger"
-Unknown MST3K quote
Scott Spencer
sts100z@********.cc.odu.edu
"Nothing can stop us......we're on a mission from Glod"
-Cliff the Troll from Terry Prachett's Soul Music
_______________________________________________________________________________
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 19:40:45 GMT
Reply-To: Paul@********.demon.co.uk
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Paul Jonathan Adam <Paul@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Magic or Tech...
Bob wrote-
> > Finally, someone who knows how to balance a game <G>
And Jani replied -
> Well that does it, I am fed up with this all mage-players are munchkins
> holier than thou attitude!
We said several times that mages were *easier* to munchkin: I pointed out
that I've had magical characters of my own come and retire. Bob was talking
about *balance*. I've seen samurai that would curl your hair - second-hand,
beta grade wired-II, for instance, on a starting character? We were offering a
countervailing view to someone whose posts seemed to imply all samurai are
alike and all are musclebound bozos :-)
> I and other listmembers have given you every curtesy and tried to make it
> clear that no one here has any bias toward street samurai.
Agreed, fine. There seems to be a slight bias against? (Ducks a hail of
laser-guided carp fillets).
> And yet you insist on flaming everyone that does not share your hate of mages
> and making impossible remarks about things you obviously know nothing about.
Jani, pop a Valium and sit down for a while, all right? I didn't see Bob
flame anyone. He's been polite, informed and said a great deal that he, I
and others agree on. There are *several* Mohicans out here :-) I've played
and GM'd Shadowrun since 1989, so I maybe know a *little* about it, and
Bob hasn't made any howlers. A few differences of opinion, sure, but isn't
that the point of lists like this?
> This list has always supported a very conservative attitude as far as
> magic is concerned, we have always tried to enforce the "disadvantages" of
> magic in order to make it more playable and not such a pain in the butt
> of the other players. But Mr. Join-The-List-And-Flame-Em Knowitall here
> always knows better.....
I haven't seen the list support any one attitude: if it did, it wouldn't be
as interesting. But to be told "your character is basically a pro footballer
with wired reflexes and big guns" is something of a sweeping generalisation
and I felt pressed to respond. Bob feels the same as I in many ways.
And if the game is so perfectly balanced, why is it necessary to "make it
more playable and not such a pain in the butt for other players" whenever
the magicians appear? :-)
One point I remember when I briefly tried AD&D: I chose a fighter because
I felt comfortable with the notion of being the big guy with the sword who
solved his problems by hitting them with something sharp. Nice and simple,
not too many rules and rolls while you're feeling out a system. So inexperienced
players may well drift into the "wires-and-guns" category, and roleplay in
the manner of novices: pick a movie stereotype and run with it.
So often you run into a street samurai who's a caricature from Hollywood. So
what? You have a novice player finding his or her feet in the game, hopefully
enjoying themselves, and learning the ropes. My first RPG character was the SR1
mercenary archetype, who I called Turner but everyone came to nickname "Bozo".
Bozo was fun to play, but my inexperience showed: he was a triggerhappy psycho
with no background or depth, and by the time I realised this was not conducive
to character survival it was too late to credibly change him.
So for two fun months Bozo danced the edge until his itchy trigger
finger finally got him into too much trouble to get away from. Lynch learned
from his mistakes: but Bozo did fit the description of street samurai that
Bob, I and others disagree with. He was the exception rather than the rule,
though, just as the munchkinous magical monstrosities some players foisted
on our game were rare compared to the well-rounded and well-played magicians.
(Stares intently around, nostrils twitching for the first warning whiff of the
incoming attack. Will it be searing napalm, or squelching carp?....)
--
When you have shot and killed a man, you have defined your attitude towards
him. You have offered a definite answer to a definite problem. For better or
for worse, you have acted decisively.
In fact, the next move is up to him.
Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 19:56:42 -0400
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Brent Fisher <tsmu@*****.LSA.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Magic or Tech...
In-Reply-To: <3138@********.demon.co.uk>
On Wed, 5 Apr 1995, Paul Jonathan Adam wrote:
>
> (Stares intently around, nostrils twitching for the first warning whiff of the
> incoming attack. Will it be searing napalm, or squelching carp?....)
>
Nah, no fire or fish. You have made a very sound argument, and I for
one would like to second your prose.
Brent Fisher.
tsmu@*****.lsa.umich.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 20:01:29 -0400
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: "<Great Czar>" <GreatCzar@***.COM>
Subject: Re: To C or N, Again
Jani Fikouras wrote:
>Ok here goes again - Why does everyone think I mean that people >actually
>change reality *sigh*.
Aggravating isn't it:)
Great Czar
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 17:10:15 -0700
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: NIGHTFOX <DJWA@******.UCC.NAU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Were-creatures
>I a question concerning Were-creatures.
Which came from too much **&* playing.
The best answer to your question would be to read pg 230 in SRII black book.
Under the heading of Shapeshifters.
It explains that - Shapeshifters are born in animal form to another
shapeshifter - some of the litter may be normal.
It also says that it is a common misconception that shapeshifters are humans
which that change into animals. They begin as animals, and remain animals that
can change into humans.
Nightfox
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 09:26:32 +1000
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Luke Kendall <luke@********.CANON.OZ.AU>
Subject: Re: Questions
> I agree here but someone could hit your meat body for stun right?
> Also what if instead of knocking your meat body unconscious how about
> they pump you full of sedative - is it the same as stun? what effect
> do most drugs have when you are astral projecting?
Jani Fikouras writes:
> If someone hits your meat body, you automatically get dumped out of the
> astral.
This makes it too easy on the mage. It's more common for the mage to
want to return to her body quickly.
luke
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 17:17:19 -0700
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: NIGHTFOX <DJWA@******.UCC.NAU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Ares Viper Slivergun
>The Ares Viper Slivergun... a most impressive weapon, no?
very
>Damage is listed at 9S(f)...
>It's a light pistol that uses heavy pistol ranges... (so sayeth the rulebook)
>
>So does it do 9S(f) per shot for a 12D(f) three round burst
>Or does it do 6M(f) per shot and 9S(f) when firing a burst?
Its base damage is 9S(f) it will go up to 12D(f) when used in BF mode.
All damages given are for the weapons before BF and FA mods.
>ALSO!
>It fires bursts, but it's silenced...
>Do you use silencer or sound suppressor mods?
they say its silenced - use silencer mods
>Do you use silencer for single shots and SS for bursts?
If the weapon does not come with a silencer to begin with, go with the normal
rules.
Silencer - SS and SA -2 conc, +4 TN for perception
Sound Suppressor - BF and FA, -2 Conc +2 TN for perception
Nightfox
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 18:22:03 -0700
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: NIGHTFOX <DJWA@******.UCC.NAU.EDU>
Subject: Re: New spell, comments?
> OK, like some people advised me, I'll be posting some of the stuff
>I invented, mainly a couple of spells, an Phys. Ad. power and some tech.
> Purpose : Damaging Manipulation
> This spell "encases" a specific melee weapon in a sheath of elemental
>matter(energy). This increases the effectiveness of the weapon against just=
>
>about any target. Furthermore most elemental effects count against most
>elemental's weaknesses without further cost.
The only real comment I have to make at this time is that I can not read
through posts comfortably. It detracts from a post when there are so many
special characters that it takes away from the effort to read and think about
it. I do no know if other poeple are also having this problem.
But to make it easier to read you might want to consider pressing the
return key before you reach the end of the screen and over type.
Try doing a typing job like this.
Where you only use half or a little more
of the page. Yes it may start to look
like your writing poetry, but it
may turn out to be much more legible.
Nightfox
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 20:34:46 -0500
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Bob Ooton <topcat@**.CENCOM.NET>
Subject: PBeM Shadowrun
Comments: To: "Brett H. Barnhart" <bhbarnha@**********.ORG>
I would like to run a human samurai. He will be young, and a gang member.
Here's some basic thoughts...
Name: Deadboy (Gregory Haldricht)
"Archetype" (I hate to use that word, because he'll barely conform to it):
Street Samurai
Race: Human
History: Born to a middle manager working for Saeder-Krupp, he grew tired
of daddy's infringements on his fun. After swiping a load of cash from his
trust fund <performance courtesy of decker pal> and converting it to
certified credsticks, he went on a cyberbinge to rival the best. A couple
months later and he was out on the streets, hooking up with a gang, and
having more fun than he'd ever had before in his life. But things have
started to get stale again and he's looking for some new fun...shadowrunning
seems just the thing.
Whatcha think?
I can answer my mail daily (except for sometime at the end of May...going to
watch a Muay Thai tourney in Memphis). Other than that there doesn't seem
to be any probs. I also would like to know how many people will be in this
and what they will be playing.
Talk to ya later!
-- Bob Ooton <topcat@******.net>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 20:59:18 -0400
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Vincent Pellerin <Vincent.Pellerin@***.GMC.ULAVAL.CA>
Subject: Re: Dodge
Adam Getchell wrote
>
I like the variant Dodge rules that DLOH came up with in
>_Vampire_ (no, I don't like the rules system there either don't shudder ;-)
> ( cute dodge rule snipped)
This rule is very logical for the shooter-target interaction and i would
gladly use it if it would'nt be for a small point. It assume the target is
has the capacity to move back and forward toward is cover and destination
(if he is not already in the cover actually). This can go into a lot of
timing and interaction problem during the round. I'll explain myself 2
meters is'nt a lot for some character but a lot for some others, when you
just moved your "big 9 meters" and are at 2 m of the cover the rule would
let me think he suddendly can make 2 m more. Fighting inside is bringning
problem to, when a grenade goes of in a room, you where out of the room but
used the door frame as the "within 2m of cover", are you in or out? I
realise that for some system this could be a great rule (i will cannibalise
it myself ), but for Shadowrun, i prefer my rule for now.
Thanks for posting it, this rule is pretty well thought.
_________________________________________________________________________
| _____ "You are yong only once....... |
| \ \ / ......... but you can be immature all yourlife !" |
| \ __/ / -heard somewhere, i don'tremember |
| \ / |
| \_/ Vincent.Pellerin@***.gmc.ulaval.ca |
|________________________________________________________________________|
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 00:40:02 GMT
Reply-To: Paul@********.demon.co.uk
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Paul Jonathan Adam <Paul@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Ares Viper Slivergun
> The Ares Viper Slivergun... a most impressive weapon, no?
Most surely so.
> Here's my question...
> Damage is listed at 9S(f)...
> It's a light pistol that uses heavy pistol ranges... (so sayeth the rulebook)
> So does it do 9S(f) per shot for a 12D(f) three round burst
> Or does it do 6M(f) per shot and 9S(f) when firing a burst?
Since everything else lists the damage for a single shot (even weapons that
only fire full-auto) then it's 12D(f) for each of two bursts. Ouch. Even
with double impact that's going to hurt. And you have two bursts instead of
the one you get with, say, a Savalette Guardian. Ouch twice in succession.
> ALSO!
> It fires bursts, but it's silenced...
> Do you use silencer or sound suppressor mods?
> Do you use silencer for single shots and SS for bursts?
SR2 says it's silenced. I go with the silencer modifiers, but there is an
extra penalty for burst fire. Technically I mumble that it's because it only
fires a specific type of flechette ammunition which is easier to suppress but
also rather unusual. Not even illegal, but unusual: enough that sales assistants
remember "the big tribal-looking guy, yeah, he wanted two boxes of Viper rounds,
he was here all right" longer than otherwise. Not a drawback of the Guardian,
which also fires APDS or explosive ammo.
The Viper's combination of magazine size, damage and burst fire do make it
a very nasty weapon in the right hands, but all you need is someone hiding
behind cover to negate it. And forget about damaging vehicles, too. It's a
popular weapon among my players, and one of my characters carries one as a
back-up pistol: but it's not universally used, which is the hallmark of an
unbalanced weapon. When *everyone* uses the same gun, the system's out of
balance :-)
BTW, all these weapons are...interesting to fire, or at least the nearest real
equivalents I've seen (the Glock 18 by repute, and in person a broken M1911A1
that emptied a 18-round clip of .38 Super in just under a second...five times,
as we all tried to see "if it was fixed yet"). The M1911A1 was a Para-Ordnance
custom job with wide frame and a ported barrel, and it still needed both hands
and a lot of determination to get most of the rounds on target at 20 yards. A
burst limiter would have helped a lot, though. Five or six was the shortest
burst we managed to get (the ROF was enormous) but that usually meant all on
target. After about six the climb pulled them skywards: we didn't perforate the
roof, but the backstop hadn't been punctured *that* high for a while.
--
When you have shot and killed a man, you have defined your attitude towards
him. You have offered a definite answer to a definite problem. For better or
for worse, you have acted decisively.
In fact, the next move is up to him.
Paul J. Adam (still a Mohican and proud) paul@********.demon.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 21:14:05 -0400
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Vincent Pellerin <Vincent.Pellerin@***.GMC.ULAVAL.CA>
Subject: Re: My questions V
Gurth wrote
>This brings me to something I've been wondering about for some time: if
>you've only ever seen someone's astral self, would you recognize him if you
>met him on the physical plane (with or without assensing him)? I mean, your
>"idealized self-image" can look _very_ different from what you look like in
>everyday life...
>
IMHO ( :-) ) i don't think he would recognize him, this is more a
gut feeling than a logical explanation. Maybe a small chance, the radically
different image of the astrally projecting mage might have a lot of common
points to his "grounded" image. His magical attribute, his "astral
power"
or whatever, is determined by is physical body in most part, but since his
other attributes are from is mental capacities, who knows ? I would
certainly give a chance to a player to "make the connection" between the
two, but it would be slim, unless he was looking at the other in astral
percepetion. In every case, i believe our self image is based in parts, on
how we look and our faces. I usually juge the people i meet, by there
face, the way they move use their hand,(even their names!) etc.. Some of
these thing would certainly carry over to the astral plane. The feeling you
already know someone could be from a previous astral meeting!
Well, that just my humble opinion.
_________________________________________________________________________
| _____ "You are yong only once....... |
| \ \ / ......... but you can be immature all yourlife !" |
| \ __/ / -heard somewhere, i don'tremember |
| \ / |
| \_/ Vincent.Pellerin@***.gmc.ulaval.ca |
|________________________________________________________________________|
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 21:03:13 -0500
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Bob Ooton <topcat@**.CENCOM.NET>
Subject: Oops...
My apologies fo rthe PBeM thingy going out over here...Eudora decided that
BHbarnhard's addres needed to have the ShadowRN list thrown in too...
Sorry bout that.
-- Bob Ooton <topcat@*****.net>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 21:24:30 -0400
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Vincent Pellerin <Vincent.Pellerin@***.GMC.ULAVAL.CA>
Subject: Vince questions VII
Well, this are my last questions (but some other have come to my
mind during the discussions!)
GII.26 Stacking enchantements
What is the rating of a magical item with multiple
enchantements for the grounding and astral combat ?
A)The highest rating of the functions
B)The lowest rating
*C)The sum of all the functions ratings
D)The highest + 1/2 sum of the lower functions
Do you activate it a function at a time (does it count as
multiple magic item for the limit SRII.137) ?
Yes
No
*Maybe, depending of formula (choice of the maker)
If you activate a stacked enchantements focus containing
a spell lock, does it dissapear (spell locks become insubstantial
when sustaining a spell).
yes
No
*Maybe, depending of formula (choice of the maker)
<<I know the answer of that one now (NAGM), the spell lock does'nt become
insubtantial but it could still stand for the "dissapear to the mundanes"
part, somebody would not look twice at a magic sword drawn out ?>>
GII.86 (SRII.146) Humans on the astral
What is the astral reaction of a mage in astral projection ?
A)Twice is intelligence (SRII.146)
B)Is physical reaction (GII.86 state that the special
attributes do not change in astral space)
C)Is intelligence (from somewhere else, i don't remember)
GII.86 (Shadowtech) Human on the astral
Is the bioware and cyberware of the shadowtech modifying
the atral characteristics of someone ?
No (as state in the Grimoire)
Yes (as said in the Shadowtech)
Depend (cite exeptions)
GII.131 All barrier spells
Is the personal form of these spells having the same
effect as the physical barrier (SRII.158) : force field of cracling
energy, with a visibility modifier of +1 ?
*Yes
No
GII.131 Blade barrier
What is the use of this spell, for a big area ? Keep to
knifes out of it ?
"Goon: Boss, i can't go trough!!
Boss: So drop your knife, take your bat and follow me. "
Well this is it. The rest was possible erratas left out of the erratas
sheat that made their way to me. The only thing left for me is to wait out
the answers of FASATom, i will let you know when i get them.
_________________________________________________________________________
| _____ "You are yong only once....... |
| \ \ / ......... but you can be immature all yourlife !" |
| \ __/ / -heard somewhere, i don'tremember |
| \ / |
| \_/ Vincent.Pellerin@***.gmc.ulaval.ca |
|________________________________________________________________________|
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 22:30:00 -0400
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Menard Steve <menars@***.UMONTREAL.CA>
Subject: Re: New spell, comments?
Comments: cc: The@***.UMontreal.CA
In-Reply-To: <01HOZMGYCGO20000LG@******.UCC.NAU.EDU>
On Wed, 5 Apr 1995, NIGHTFOX wrote:
> >=09OK, like some people advised me, I'll be posting some of the stuff
> >I invented, mainly a couple of spells, an Phys. Ad. power and some tech.
>
> >=09Purpose : Damaging Manipulation
>
> >=09This spell "encases" a specific melee weapon in a sheath of
element=
al
> >matter(energy). This increases the effectiveness of the weapon against j=
ust=
> >=20
> >about any target. Furthermore most elemental effects count against most=
=20
> >elemental's weaknesses without further cost.
>
> The only real comment I have to make at this time is that I can not read
> through posts comfortably. It detracts from a post when there are so man=
y
> special characters that it takes away from the effort to read and think a=
bout
> it. I do no know if other poeple are also having this problem.
> But to make it easier to read you might want to consider pressing the
> return key before you reach the end of the screen and over type.
>
> Try doing a typing job like this.
> Where you only use half or a little more
> of the page. Yes it may start to look
> like your writing poetry, but it
> may turn out to be much more legible.
>
>
> Nightfox
>
I'm soory about those special chars. When I wrote the text I was
on a Unix machine and everything seemed fine. I'll stop using tabs
and check my 80-line limit. I'll reformat my texts and repost them
soon.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-
--- |\_/| Still The One and Only Wolfbane! --=
-
--- |o o| " Hey! Why ya lookin' at me so weird? Ain't ya 'ver seen a --=
-
--- \ / decker witha horn ?" --- Scy, Troll decker with a Cý =
---
--- 0 Steve Menard menars@***.UMontreal.Ca --=
-
---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 22:35:38 -0400
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Menard Steve <menars@***.UMONTREAL.CA>
Subject: Special Characters. Sorry!
In-Reply-To: <199504060230.WAA14840@*****.jsp.umontreal.ca>
On Wed, 5 Apr 1995, Mail Delivery Subsystem wrote:
> On Wed, 5 Apr 1995, NIGHTFOX wrote:
>
> > >=09OK, like some people advised me, I'll be posting some of the stuff
> > >I invented, mainly a couple of spells, an Phys. Ad. power and some tech.
> >
> > >=09Purpose : Damaging Manipulation
> >
> > >=09This spell "encases" a specific melee weapon in a sheath
of element=
> al
> > >matter(energy). This increases the effectiveness of the weapon against j=
> ust=
> > >=20
> > >about any target. Furthermore most elemental effects count against most=
> =20
> > >elemental's weaknesses without further cost.
> >
> > The only real comment I have to make at this time is that I can not read
> > through posts comfortably. It detracts from a post when there are so man=
> y
> > special characters that it takes away from the effort to read and think a=
> bout
> > it. I do no know if other poeple are also having this problem.
> > But to make it easier to read you might want to consider pressing the
> > return key before you reach the end of the screen and over type.
> >
> > Try doing a typing job like this.
> > Where you only use half or a little more
> > of the page. Yes it may start to look
> > like your writing poetry, but it
> > may turn out to be much more legible.
> >
> >
> > Nightfox
> >
>
I'm soory about those special chars. When I wrote the text I was
on a Unix machine and everything seemed fine. I'll stop using tabs
and check my 80-line limit. I'll reformat my texts and repost them
soon.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--- |\_/| Still The One and Only Wolfbane! ---
--- |o o| " Hey! Why ya lookin' at me so weird? Ain't ya 'ver seen a ---
--- \ / decker witha horn ?" --- Scy, Troll decker with a Cý ---
--- 0 Steve Menard menars@***.UMontreal.Ca ---
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 22:58:05 -0400
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Subject: Re: Ares Viper Slivergun
In-Reply-To: Bob Ooton's message of Wed, 5 Apr 1995 16:54:20 -0500
The Viper's damage is factored for 3-round burst fire; it's damage is 9S,
not 12D. The silencer is integral; it is used for all fire modes.
--
Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> | Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball.
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox |
PGP Public Key: Ask for one today! |
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 12:33:49 +0930
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Vince questions VII
In-Reply-To: <9504060104.AA17540@*******.etu.gmc.ulaval.ca> from "Vincent
Pellerin" at Apr 5, 95 09:24:30 pm
Vincent Pellerin wrote:
>
> GII.26 Stacking enchantements
>
> What is the rating of a magical item with multiple
> enchantements for the grounding and astral combat ?
>
> A)The highest rating of the functions
> B)The lowest rating
> *C)The sum of all the functions ratings
> D)The highest + 1/2 sum of the lower functions
Can't remember for certain, but I believe it's mentioned in the Grimoire.
I'm pretty sure it's either B or D.
> Do you activate it a function at a time (does it count as
> multiple magic item for the limit SRII.137) ?
> Yes
> No
> *Maybe, depending of formula (choice of the maker)
I play it that you activate it all or nothing. Yes, they all count to the
limit.
> If you activate a stacked enchantements focus containing
> a spell lock, does it dissapear (spell locks become insubstantial
> when sustaining a spell).
> yes
> No
> *Maybe, depending of formula (choice of the maker)
'Course not. Actually, you may have it become faint, or more obscure, or
smaller. But the much greater part of the full enchantments keep it there.
> GII.86 (SRII.146) Humans on the astral
>
> What is the astral reaction of a mage in astral projection ?
>
> A)Twice is intelligence (SRII.146)
> B)Is physical reaction (GII.86 state that the special
> attributes do not change in astral space)
> C)Is intelligence (from somewhere else, i don't remember)
The formula doesn't change... it's still the average of Quickness and
Intelligence. It's just that Astral Quickness is equal to Intelligence, so
Astral Reaction is equal to Intelligence (normally).
> GII.86 (Shadowtech) Human on the astral
>
> Is the bioware and cyberware of the shadowtech modifying
> the atral characteristics of someone ?
> No (as state in the Grimoire)
> Yes (as said in the Shadowtech)
> Depend (cite exeptions)
Disputed point. In general, cyberware doesn't affect Astral, while bioware
would if it made sense to do so. (Tailored Pheremones, for example, are way
out.) However, the entry in the encephalon in early printings said it did
affect magical tasks. This was changed later.
Do what you want, is my suggestion (me, I leave all such mods behind...
they may be part of you, paid for by Essence, and what not, but they aren't
fully integrated into your aura. That's just a house rule, though.)
> GII.131 All barrier spells
>
> Is the personal form of these spells having the same
> effect as the physical barrier (SRII.158) : force field of cracling
> energy, with a visibility modifier of +1 ?
>
> *Yes
> No
Yep.
> GII.131 Blade barrier
>
> What is the use of this spell, for a big area ? Keep to
> knifes out of it ?
>
> "Goon: Boss, i can't go trough!!
> Boss: So drop your knife, take your bat and follow me. "
Not much... the personal blade barrier might have some use, though. As
always, imaginative players will find uses. Like a blade barrier cast in
front of a go-gang (armed with, amongst other things, knives), and then
laughing as their jackets/belts/pants tear away, and they are probably
jerked off the bike.
--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
Finger me for my geek code
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 12:54:41 +0930
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Ares Viper Slivergun
In-Reply-To: <199504060258.WAA02594@******.ccs.neu.edu> from "Stainless Steel
Rat" at Apr 5, 95 10:58:05 pm
Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>
> The Viper's damage is factored for 3-round burst fire; it's damage is 9S,
> not 12D. The silencer is integral; it is used for all fire modes.
That makes sense as it's really a light pistol (base 6L => 6M (flechettes)
=> 9S (three round burst)). However, the fire modes are both SA and BF.
Futhermore, the description of the Viper says that the flechette damage is
already factored in, but doesn't say anything about the burst fire.
--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
Finger me for my geek code
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 16:33:48 +1000
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Damion Milliken <adm82@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: New stuff, where to?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SGI.3.91.950403183358.10816A-100000@*****.jsp.umontreal.ca>
from "Menard Steve" at Apr 3, 95 06:36:58 pm
Menard Steve writes:
> The second, I invented a couple of spells, some technical stuff,
> a couple of rules. I wonder where to post them. Here on the mailing list
> or is there a web page/FTP site somewhere that accepts just such things?
I'm sure Paolo would accept anything SR related and place it on his WWW page.
--
Damion Milliken Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: adm82@***.edu.au
(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+@ H s++:-- !g p0 !au a19 w+ v(?) C++ US++>+++ P+ L !3
E? N K- W M@ !V po@ Y+ t+ 5 !j R+(++) G(+)('''') !tv(--@)
b++ D B? e+$ u@ h* f+ !r n----(--)@ !y+
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 23:37:28 -0700
Reply-To: bd042@***.org
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: SCN User <bd042@***.ORG>
Subject: Summoniung
Comments: To: shadowrn%hearn.BITNET@***.nodak.edu
If you get Conjuring skill for your ally, can it then summon
more spirits, or can it only use it to banish others?
If the former, could an ally have an ally?
What about free spirits?
On the Astral Questions: If you have something that increases
your intelligence, like cerebral boosts, then it
affects your reaction, yes? Now, this should also affect your
Astral attributes (as opposed to, say, wired reflexes, which
doesn't make you smarter or anything, just makes your meat body
faster)
--bd042@***.org (StefHahn/Tooth of the Kahn)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 23:49:08 -0700
Reply-To: bd042@***.org
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: SCN User <bd042@***.ORG>
Subject: Allies
Comments: To: shadowrn%hearn.BITNET@***.nodak.edu
Here's an idea: can an ally/free spirit/sprits in general use foci?
what if they get someone else to pay for it?
Would the ally of a shaman also gain totem bonuses, or could it
be somehow written into the spirit formula?
(would this require a special quest to the totem's metaplane, to ask
a native of that plane to be his/her ally?)
Exactly how large can you make allies and the like?
(i.e. Ganesh, the Elephant shaman, summons his friend Jumbo, who
manifests directly over your head. Have a nice (if flat) day!)
can spirits appear as inanimate objects if they want?
--bd042@***.org (Stefan Hahn/Tooth of the Kahn)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 17:14:34 +1000
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Damion Milliken <adm82@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: New spell, comments?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SGI.3.91.950404151235.6160A-100000@*****.jsp.umontreal.ca>
from "Menard Steve" at Apr 4, 95 03:15:16 pm
Menard Steve writes:
> (Elemental) Sheath
Sounds ok to me. But it kinda replaces anchoring to melee weapons doesn't
it? Or actually, now that I think about it, it allows you to anchor a
"flaming sword" (since no such spell existed to anchor previously), but
[anchoring question] wouldn't it be more effective to spell lock or quicken
the spell onto the sword rather than anchor it? The only thing I have with
it is that it seems a little too much $$&$ish to me. You know, a flaming
sword with 4 successes becomes a +2 sword and so on... I assume you don't
allow the spell to be cast on dikoted weapons? Or if you do, then it either
has a much higher TN, or screws the dikote?
--
Damion Milliken Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: adm82@***.edu.au
(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+@ H s++:-- !g p0 !au a19 w+ v(?) C++ US++>+++ P+ L !3
E? N K- W M@ !V po@ Y+ t+ 5 !j R+(++) G(+)('''') !tv(--@)
b++ D B? e+$ u@ h* f+ !r n----(--)@ !y+
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 10:03:16 +0200
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Sioux Cops (was Magic or Tech)
>I've solved the problem, they have approximately 2 hours to find a way
>to defeat the magical tracking (they have no mage, all the players come
>down firmly in the Sammy side of the magic vs Tech argument) before a REAL
>unit of Wild-cats comes to get them (they've killed about ten cops now,
>the government has got interested), Wild-cats with full support, and mil-spec
>gear.
Weren't military units prohibited from entering the FRFZ? If so (if my
memory serves me right, that is :), the other countries would get a bit
pissed off at the Sioux, wouldn't they?
Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
...the insects are huge and the poison's all been used...
Geek Code v2.1: GS/AT/! -d+ H s:- !g p?(3) !au a>? w+(+++) v*(---) C+(++) U
P? !L !3 E? N++ K- W+ -po+(po) Y+ t(+) 5 !j R+(++)>+++$ tv+(++) b+@ D+(++)
B? e+ u+@ h! f--(?) !r(--)(*) n---->!n y? Unofficial Shadowrun Guru :)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 10:03:19 +0200
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Magic or Tech...
>I would have said the complete opposite actually. Most every time magic is
>discussed on here, the eventual resolution is to crack down on magicians or
>the magic rules. Take the spell locks for example. When "spell locks in your
>mouth" came up, the solution wasn't "yeah, that'd be a grand idea", it
was
>"not fragging likely to work", followed by xxx reasons why not.
I remember one of the first things I posted on this list was about implanted
fetishes, because one of my players had just said to me "hey, that'd be an
idea for a cybered mage," and then people came up with things like "Then you
can just as well say 'my pelvis is my fetish' -- better make it reusable..."
It seems like many people want to make magicians less powerful when someone
comes up with an idea to make the game more interesting, and then when they
are actually gaming give magicians lots of advantages not available to
mundanes...
>but new cyberware for sammies rarely comes up.
Then we should get to thinking about that :) Anyone have any good cyberware
to post on the list?
>I do tend to notice that those who are not very good role-players usually go
>for the samurais in most of my games though. I don't know how representative
>this is though, since most others on here seem to indicate that the power
>gamers/munchkins go for the magicians in their games.
I'd advise a new player to play a samurai instead of a full-blown magician
(especially a shaman), simply because they're easier to roleplay... maybe
it's just because I used to play Fighters in **&* when I first started
RPing, but I always did find simple hack-and-shoot characters easier to get
into than those who rely on other skills.
>(it just means they are slow leaners :-)).
Do they jump in slow-motion too?
Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
...the insects are huge and the poison's all been used...
Geek Code v2.1: GS/AT/! -d+ H s:- !g p?(3) !au a>? w+(+++) v*(---) C+(++) U
P? !L !3 E? N++ K- W+ -po+(po) Y+ t(+) 5 !j R+(++)>+++$ tv+(++) b+@ D+(++)
B? e+ u+@ h! f--(?) !r(--)(*) n---->!n y? Unofficial Shadowrun Guru :)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 10:03:22 +0200
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Were-creatures
> 1. If a were-creature bits someone do they become a were?
> B. No
Shapeshifters don't "bite" people as werewolves etc. do in the movies --
instead they simply have their young in the normal way, with the young being
born in animal form.
> 2. Can the victim (bitee) be cured before possible becoming a were?
Kinda irrelevant if you can't get "infected."
Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
...the insects are huge and the poison's all been used...
Geek Code v2.1: GS/AT/! -d+ H s:- !g p?(3) !au a>? w+(+++) v*(---) C+(++) U
P? !L !3 E? N++ K- W+ -po+(po) Y+ t(+) 5 !j R+(++)>+++$ tv+(++) b+@ D+(++)
B? e+ u+@ h! f--(?) !r(--)(*) n---->!n y? Unofficial Shadowrun Guru :)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 10:03:44 +0200
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Ares Viper Slivergun
>It's a light pistol that uses heavy pistol ranges... (so sayeth the rulebook)
Best to ignore that bit, IMHO.
>So does it do 9S(f) per shot for a 12D(f) three round burst
>Or does it do 6M(f) per shot and 9S(f) when firing a burst?
I always took it that the 9S(f) means the +1 Damage from flechette rounds
had already been incorporated into the Damage Code -- it has a normal DC of
9M, but this goes to 9S against unarmored targets.
>ALSO!
>It fires bursts, but it's silenced...
>
>Do you use silencer or sound suppressor mods?
>Do you use silencer for single shots and SS for bursts?
Silencer rules, and only when firing semi-auto.
Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
...the insects are huge and the poison's all been used...
Geek Code v2.1: GS/AT/! -d+ H s:- !g p?(3) !au a>? w+(+++) v*(---) C+(++) U
P? !L !3 E? N++ K- W+ -po+(po) Y+ t(+) 5 !j R+(++)>+++$ tv+(++) b+@ D+(++)
B? e+ u+@ h! f--(?) !r(--)(*) n---->!n y? Unofficial Shadowrun Guru :)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 10:03:46 +0200
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Questions
>This makes it too easy on the mage. It's more common for the mage to
>want to return to her body quickly.
I just noticed another strange situation in the SR rules for astral
projection: if somebody moves the magician's body, he can't find it back and
must roll that test to find it. But if someone casts an area-effect spell at
the magician in astral space, it grounds through his body even if he's 1000
km away from it... why can the spell find the body without any trouble but
does the character have to go look for it?
Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
...the insects are huge and the poison's all been used...
Geek Code v2.1: GS/AT/! -d+ H s:- !g p?(3) !au a>? w+(+++) v*(---) C+(++) U
P? !L !3 E? N++ K- W+ -po+(po) Y+ t(+) 5 !j R+(++)>+++$ tv+(++) b+@ D+(++)
B? e+ u+@ h! f--(?) !r(--)(*) n---->!n y? Unofficial Shadowrun Guru :)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 18:24:40 +1000
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Damion Milliken <adm82@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Vince Questions VI
In-Reply-To: <9504040139.AA15144@*******.etu.gmc.ulaval.ca> from "Vincent
Pellerin" at Apr 3, 95 09:59:37 pm
Vincent Pellerin writes:
> SRII.155 Chaotic world
>
> Since this is a physical spell is it logical to assume
> the effects are visibles to everybody even at the exterior of the
> zone. If someone shoot to the inside from the outside is he
> considered affected by the spell for his target numbers ?
It creates a physical effect, so those looking in can indeed see it, but I
don't think they'd be affected nearly as badly as those inside (since in the
description it says there are more effects than just light tricks invloved).
I'd probably give either a straight +1 modifier for changing lighting
condidions, or +1 per three successes the caster rolled.
> SRII.156 Improved invisibility
>
> Can this spell be cast on physical oblect and vehicles ?
It says in the description that "...the invisible person or thing...", so
yes, you can cast it on inanimate objects.
> SRII.157 Telekinetic manipulation
>
> The distance moved by an object or people using levitate
> spell are done when..
At the sustaining magicians actions. It mentions that the distance is moved
in an entire action phase, so the movement must occur during the combat
turn, not at the start like vehicle movement.
> SRII.157 Magic Finger
>
> So, if i am right, you dont need LOS to cast or sustain
> this spell ("within is view" meaning direct (astral) or indirect).
It specifically says that the spell must remain in view of the caster, but
that he may use other means of enhancement to get a closer, more detalied
view.
> SRII.158 Barrier
>
> Can this spell move after been cast ?
It doesn't actually say, but I'd would (and do) rule that once cast, that's
where it is. Like a wall, you can't move it.
> Yes (cast on a moving target maybe ? If so does it have the
> strenght to push things or peoples. Can it protect
> someone from a fall ?)
You don't cast a Barrier spell on a target. You cast it at a location. If
someone is at that particular location at the time you try to cast it, well
then... (We discussed that point a while ago, and more or less decided that
the barier had a temporary "gap" where they were, which closed after they
moved out of it.)
> Can you cast it in the air (no support from the ground)?
As far as I can tell yes, although it doesn't say so (but I have assumed
this all along).
> Do you need to see the barrier you are creating ?
This is a kind of tricky one. Like someone else said, probably yes,
otherwise you couldn't create a dome around you. However, if you were to
say, cast a barrier spell across the doors of an elevator (a good idea if
you expect to get shot at when the doors open for example), then whether
there is a 12m barrier extending left an right through the walls I don't
know. Based on the above reasoning, I'd have to say yes, there was.
> Is the micro-transceiver used for communication
> (sending what it is hearing) ?
Based on the relative concealabilities of the micro-camcorder (8),
micro-recorder (9) and micro-transceiver (18), I'd have to say that the
micro-transceiver is bloody small. Hence it couldn't contain many
electronics/speakers/etc at all, so I'd say it is only a homing device (ie,
sends out a continuous, or intermittent signal to show its curent location,
which can be picked up by a detector of some kind). OTOH, since it is in the
communications section, and there is already a thing called "Tracking
Signal" in the surveilance section, then perhaps what it is is a detect only
radio or similar device, in that it can only receive information, and not
send it.
--------------------
Menard Steve writes:
> To this one I have a question to ask : Is the personal version of these
> spells(all the barriers varianst) mobile? Or do you have to stay in place?
> I'd say they follow you, else you're gonna be encased in your own spell!
An excerpt from my file of questions:
Personal Barrier Spells
Where does the barrier actually exists? Is it:
(pg 158 SRII, 123 Grimything)
i) The same as a normal barrier spell, only centered on the
caster?
ii) The same as a normal barrier spell, only it provides
protection for the caster only (ie, it can, like a
regular barrier, be cast anywhere, but, if it were a
Bullet Barrier spell, then only bullets headed for the
caster would be stopped)?
iii) Both (i) & (ii)?
iv) A "skin-tight" barrier?
The answer eludes me, but I'd rule (i) based on the definition of a personal
spell as "something which is targeted on yourself", which in the case of a
personal barrier spell would mean you centered it on yourself. But then, it
gets complex when you want to make it a wall... In which case I would have
to change my mind and say (ii). But, once I (eventually) send my questions to
FASA, then I'll tell you. Actually, when Vince's questions get back, and he
posts them (I hope you will Vince), many of my questions may be already
answered, so hey, that's good.
--
Damion Milliken Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: adm82@***.edu.au
(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+@ H s++:-- !g p0 !au a19 w+ v(?) C++ US++>+++ P+ L !3
E? N K- W M@ !V po@ Y+ t+ 5 !j R+(++) G(+)('''') !tv(--@)
b++ D B? e+$ u@ h* f+ !r n----(--)@ !y+
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 18:07:13 +0930
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Questions
In-Reply-To: <199504060803.AA29137@***.xs4all.nl> from "Gurth" at Apr 6,
95 10:03:46 am
Gurth wrote:
>
> >This makes it too easy on the mage. It's more common for the mage to
> >want to return to her body quickly.
>
> I just noticed another strange situation in the SR rules for astral
> projection: if somebody moves the magician's body, he can't find it back and
> must roll that test to find it. But if someone casts an area-effect spell at
> the magician in astral space, it grounds through his body even if he's 1000
> km away from it... why can the spell find the body without any trouble but
> does the character have to go look for it?
'Cause it goes down a link between the mage and his body, which the mage
can't detect (nor can anyone else).
It makes finding the body easy though... cast a physical, or area-effect
spell at yourself, and follow it down. :)
--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
Finger me for my geek code
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 18:53:27 +1000
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Damion Milliken <adm82@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Spells on the astral
In-Reply-To: <199504041352.PAA02096@****.informatik.uni-Bremen.de> from "Jani
Fikouras" at Apr 4, 95 03:52:55 pm
Jani Fikouras writes:
> Spells are no spell in the astral remember ! So even if you manage to cast
> a stunnbolt at yourself (which I doubt) it will be some astral animal and
> will do physical to you.
Only if you intecept a spell cast from the phsyical intended for someone on
the phsyical. From the last paragraph of Spells, pg 148, we have:
"A magician in astral space cannot cast a spell at another spell,
but he can cast one at any other astral being. Such a spell cannot be
intercepted, and only spells that would affect the thing or being physically
will work. A sleep spell cannot be used to damage a magical item, but it
would work against a magician in astral space. Mana spells only affect the
astral target. Physical spels ground out an may affect others."
Now, this bit isn't particularily clear, I know. The way I intepret it is
that if you are projecting, and lob a spell at another projecting magician,
then it works as it would in the normal world. In fact, if it is a physical
area effect spell, it will get all those around his body too. Otherwise, why
would it specify that only spells which could affect the target normally
could be used? By your reasoning, I could lob an entertainment spell at my
opponents focus, and it would attack it for (Force)L. If this were the case,
then the rules would not say what they do, and they would allow attacks such
as that. The rules only allow you to attack a spell if you intercept it,
which you can't do if it is being cast at you (who is astrally projecting)
by another astrally projecting magician. Since you can't intercept it, it
will not engage in astral combat (pg 148), and will proceed directly to you
and ground out for its intended effect.
--
Damion Milliken Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: adm82@***.edu.au
(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+@ H s++:-- !g p0 !au a19 w+ v(?) C++ US++>+++ P+ L !3
E? N K- W M@ !V po@ Y+ t+ 5 !j R+(++) G(+)('''') !tv(--@)
b++ D B? e+$ u@ h* f+ !r n----(--)@ !y+
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 10:16:36 BST
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: P Ward <P.Ward@**.CF.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Ares Viper Slivergun
Wasn't the Viper in the big shadowrun FAQ that's on one of the FTP sites
somewhere?
AMMO:
I think they decided to explain that the Viper didn't actually fire
regular Pistol rounds, it was something like the sliver-giun from the
chrome book, in that it was a flywheel made of cermaic, with a blade
type-thing which, when the triiger is pressed cuts slivers off the
fly-wheel, and they fly forward down the barrel. Hence there's no propellant
and so a lot less noise; except the cutting of the cermiac stuff (maybe it
was plastic actually, seeing as monowire doesn't go through some ceramics).
This also exaplins the 'huge'ammo capacity for a 'light' pistol.
RANGES:
What the problem with a 'light' pistol with heavy ranges, see all the muzzle
blast when you pull the trigger, that's propellant that's still burning
(correct me if I'm wrong gun-heads), if all that force was still contained
behind the bullet (like say in a longer barrel), then the round would go
further.
I have gun mods like this, extended barrel and short-barrel, which basicly
alter the range of your weapon from one weapon class to the next longer
or shoreter (LP up to HP, SMG down to HP, etc). So you can get Long-barrel
variants of AR's with Sports ranges, etc, course then they're less
concealable....
DAMAGE CODE:
It's a 9M heavy pistol, in a light pistol frame, because it doesn't
have to have space for the magazine, just one small fly-wheel in the centre
(which BTW, is a bitch to reload in combat), and doesn't need a long barrel
to ensure all the propellant is cooked off, because it doesn;t have any,
the plastic slivers are already going as fast as they can when the trigger is
pulled.
SILENCER:
Find the difference between the TNo for a silenced single shot, and the
TNo for a single shot, apply this to the normal TNo for a burst, though
I suspect it's the same difference...
Technical enough for ya? Anymore questions? BTW I do not and have never
possessed a firearm, I;m Welsh, if the gun-heads want to correct me, be
my guest.
As a group, we don't use it, them drekky little packet-flechette things just
bounce right off, can't stand em myself, they're even worse than Hollow-point
on armour. Use APFSF's, half armour, -1 wound level, like toady's anti-kevlar
flechette rounds, much better.
Phil (Runs-With-The-Pack)
With help from Renegade, who has 9 firearms and so knows a lot more about the
subject.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 10:18:21 +6000
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Philip Hayward <Philip.Hayward@***.UK>
Subject: V's Questions
Damion writes:
>> SRII.156 Improved invisibility
>>
>> Can this spell be cast on physical oblect and vehicles ?
>
> It says in the description that "...the invisible person or thing...", so
> yes, you can cast it on inanimate objects.
I agree and thats what we rule yet is there a limit on the size of the
object? An object could be a hand gun, a table, a car or a boeing 747 ?
My only suggestion is to reduce the perception test to see it the larger
the object gets? so you need a LOT of successes to hide the 747 :)
>> SRII.158 Barrier
>>
>> Can this spell move after been cast ?
>
> It doesn't actually say, but I'd would (and do) rule that once cast, that's
> where it is. Like a wall, you can't move it.
Yet the personal form moves with you doesn't it?
>> Yes (cast on a moving target maybe ? If so does it have the
>> strenght to push things or peoples. Can it protect
>> someone from a fall ?)
>
> You don't cast a Barrier spell on a target. You cast it at a location. If
> someone is at that particular location at the time you try to cast it, well
> then... (We discussed that point a while ago, and more or less decided that
> the barier had a temporary "gap" where they were, which closed after they
> moved out of it.)
But a movable barrier spell with a higher drain would be possible,
and give a restricted target (say on vehicles) to compensate.
And my PC's thought Nissan patrol cars were wimpy :)
I'm tempted to pick two variations (with different spell formulas)
the place in a location (can be shaped in a wall etc.) and another
which can be placed on a target?
>> Is the micro-transceiver used for communication
>> (sending what it is hearing) ?
>
> Based on the relative concealabilities of the micro-camcorder (8),
micro-recorder (9) and micro-transceiver (18), I'd have to say that the
micro-transceiver is bloody small. Hence it couldn't contain many
electronics/speakers/etc at all, so I'd say it is only a homing device (ie,
sends out a
continuous, or intermittent signal to show its curent location,
which can be picked up by a detector of some kind). OTOH, since it is in the
communications section, and there is already a thing called "Tracking
Signal" in the surveilance section, then perhaps what it is is a detect only
radio or similar device, in that it can only receive information, and not
> send it.
I thought the transciever just sent the images recorded by the micro-
camcorder, or the micro-recorder. On their own the camcorder/Recorder
do just that record. This is how we play it, and you usually add the
transciever or additional memory for the recording devices depending on
how you intend to collect the info. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
> --------------------
> Menard Steve writes:
>> To this one I have a question to ask : Is the personal version of these
>> spells(all the barriers varianst) mobile? Or do you have to stay in place?
>> I'd say they follow you, else you're gonna be encased in your own spell!
> An excerpt from my file of questions:
>
> Personal Barrier Spells
>
> Where does the barrier actually exists? Is it:
> (pg 158 SRII, 123 Grimything)
>
> i) The same as a normal barrier spell, only centered on the
> caster?
> ii) The same as a normal barrier spell, only it provides
> protection for the caster only (ie, it can, like a
> regular barrier, be cast anywhere, but, if it were a
> Bullet Barrier spell, then only bullets headed for the
> caster would be stopped)?
> iii) Both (i) & (ii)?
> iv) A "skin-tight" barrier?
>
>The answer eludes me, but I'd rule (i) based on the definition of a personal
>spell as "something which is targeted on yourself"
Now, by (i) do you mean the usual radius? if so then I rule (iv)
but I'd never thought of it as 'skin tight' just small enough to protect
you, (and people cowering behind the guy with personal barrier using him
as walking cover.)
I see now that I'd never thought barrier spells over properly as my
current rulings are all over the place but then since no PC's use it
yet they don't really now anymore than that their bullets keep flattening
at least oppertune times :)
But if a character wanted any variation I'd say
sure and tweak the drain as I felt fit.
Phil
<Philip.Hayward@***.UK>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 10:30:19 BST
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: P Ward <P.Ward@**.CF.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Sioux Cops
Gurth Said :-
> Weren't military units prohibited from entering the FRFZ? If so (if my
> memory serves me right, that is :), the other countries would get a bit
> pissed off at the Sioux, wouldn't they?
Course they were, but then, whoever listens to the rules? It's like
Menzoberanzen (sorry 'bout that, I play *&* too. My humble apologies,
mumble, mumble....I shall go and disembowel myself now) if they don;t
see you do it, then they can't prosecute you for it.
I don't remember seeing a limit on the gear a nation could field on
it's police force, so it's just funny that Seargant running-Cloud and
his unit were honourably Discharged from the 'Cats, and then retained
by ESSI (Sioux Sector Police) with gear intat the next day....
Didn't you see the rumour that wild-cats had bombed a Fire-track
radar centre the UCAS were building along their border (I think),
that drekked them off, but they had no proof.
N-E-Way, they finally got themselves into an astral ward, and the
ESSI Sending bounced, so for them moment they're safe, unfortunately,
one of them didn't want to smoke the Peyote offered, and left the ward,
so she was picked up by the Ritual Sorcery, bad luck for them, Neh?
Phil (Runs-With-The-Pack)
Cackling hidesouly at the thought of Wildcats coming to show his players
the error of their ways.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 19:31:59 +1000
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Damion Milliken <adm82@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Netguns ??
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.90.950403144144.3519B-100000@***.dds.nl> from
"Jan-bart van Beek" at Apr 3, 95 02:59:03 pm
Jan-bart van Beek writes:
> Anyway, they caught us by using netguns. have you ever read the rules on
> netguns, yikes. They might very well be the ultimate weapon, especially
> in some skilled hands. I nver met so much player-resistance as when I
> mentioned that I might equip Lone Star with these babies.
Hmm, they are pretty good eh? And if you're CHOPPER, then you'll be using
monowire versions of them for sure :-) (Ech, that'd HURT). But Ares Squirts
and Narcoject Rifles are also non-lethal, and are two of the most effective
weapons around. Net guns are another really effective non-lethal weapon,
good for those runners with a conscience (sp?) (yeah, sure, like there are
any of those). My players steer clear of Narcoject weapons because of the
fact they don't kill your target, and they never pack anything less than
cyanide in Ares Squirts. I think it's ok as it stands, the Net guns don't
seem any more or less powerful than an Ares Squirt of Narcoject rifle.
--
Damion Milliken Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: adm82@***.edu.au
(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+@ H s++:-- !g p0 !au a19 w+ v(?) C++ US++>+++ P+ L !3
E? N K- W M@ !V po@ Y+ t+ 5 !j R+(++) G(+)('''') !tv(--@)
b++ D B? e+$ u@ h* f+ !r n----(--)@ !y+
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 10:32:14 BST
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: P Ward <P.Ward@**.CF.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Magic or Tech...
Gurth said :-
> Then we should get to thinking about that :) Anyone have any good cyberware
> to post on the list?
I got some bits of cyber, tech-toys and guns (natch), of course it's not in as
nice-a-format as the offical stuff or the bits you find out on the web, so
you'll have to wait a while while I tidy it up.
Phil (Runs-With-The-Pack)
<By now probably regretting he offered to do that.>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 10:31:06 +6000
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Philip Hayward <Philip.Hayward@***.UK>
Subject: Re: Questions
Robert watkins wrote:
>
>>I just noticed another strange situation in the SR rules for astral
>>projection: if somebody moves the magician's body, he can't find it back and
>>must roll that test to find it. But if someone casts an area-effect spell at
>>the magician in astral space, it grounds through his body even if he's 1000
>>km away from it... why can the spell find the body without any trouble but
>>does the character have to go look for it?
>
> 'Cause it goes down a link between the mage and his body, which the mage
> can't detect (nor can anyone else).
>
> It makes finding the body easy though... cast a physical, or area-effect
> spell at yourself, and follow it down. :)
If someones pinched your body, I'd make a personal barrier :) and do
it quickly and followed by personal combat sense, and any enhance
attributes if you have them :) you might not like whats at the
other end (but it'll happen anyway)
Phil
<Philip.Hayward>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 10:40:40 BST
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: P Ward <P.Ward@**.CF.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: New spell, comments?
> I assume you don't allow the spell to be cast on dikoted weapons? Or if you do,
> then it either has a much higher TN, or screws the dikote?
There's already a TNo penalty for Anchoring on Di-kote isn't there, or was it
for Enchanting, just use that. Maybe they just stated that Di-kote weapons
counted as 'hi-tech items' for magical purposes?
I don't think that a sustained DM could generate heat necessary to re-melt the
di-kote though, maybe just weakn it a bit, so it wears off faster (har-har).
It's a bit $$&$ish, but then it was specifically mentioned in the GRimmy
as a thing to do with anchoring, and you can only set it off once anyway?
Check me on this; you activate the anchored spell, it lasts for a bit, then
the anchoring is gone right? So the sword has one 'charge', and you can't
just leave it on permanently, it'd burn through your sheath and cook your
hand...
Phil (Runs-With-The-Pack)
Who has just noticed that the nomination has gone through. So who presented
the award?
speech, Speech, SPEECH!
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 10:42:04 BST
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: P Ward <P.Ward@**.CF.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Vince questions VII
> GII.86 (SRII.146) Humans on the astral
>
> What is the astral reaction of a mage in astral projection ?
>
> A)Twice is intelligence (SRII.146)
> B)Is physical reaction (GII.86 state that the special
> attributes do not change in astral space)
> C)Is intelligence (from somewhere else, i don't remember)
It's funy you should ask that, I was wondering if the SR-II rulebook
was in error when ti said 2x Intelligence, because that put spirits at
a sever disadnatage in the Astral vs Mages, anyone have an 'official'
ruling as to whether that's a mistake???
Phil (Runs-With-The-Pack)
< But only lopes now in astral space....;-) >
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 10:43:02 GMT
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Neil Smith <NSMITH@***.AC.UK>
Organization: De Montfort Uni Milton Keynes
Subject: Gun cameras
A question that might be answered in the LS book:
Is it standard issue for cops to have cameras on their guns, so that
Internal Affairs can see exactly what people were shooting at? I
would imagine the cameras would be very small, secure to alteration,
and would also allow posthumous ID of criminals
Neil.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 19:17:52 +0930
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Vince questions VII
In-Reply-To: <9504060942.AA04206@********.cm.cf.ac.uk> from "P Ward" at
Apr 6,
95 10:42:04 am
P Ward wrote:
>
> It's funy you should ask that, I was wondering if the SR-II rulebook
> was in error when ti said 2x Intelligence, because that put spirits at
> a sever disadnatage in the Astral vs Mages, anyone have an 'official'
> ruling as to whether that's a mistake???
Uh? Even if you played with double intelligence, Spirits still get that
whopping +20 when in Astral space...
--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
Finger me for my geek code
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 10:49:57 GMT
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Neil Smith <NSMITH@***.AC.UK>
Organization: De Montfort Uni Milton Keynes
Subject: "Disarming" magicians
Another LS related question:
How would police go about "disarming" magicians, to prevent the
spellworms frying the cops with a flame bomb during an arrest? So
far I've come up with:
1. Kill the magician.
2. Knock them out, through drugs or stun damage
3. Put a bag over their heads. Normally fabric, but a plastic one
neatly combines methods 3 and 1.
4. Get an astral elemental to surround the magician. That way, any
spell cast would have to kill the elemental first.
Can people think of any others? And would any of these stop those
nasty shamany-things summoning spirits?
Neil.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 19:26:54 +0930
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: "Disarming" magicians
In-Reply-To: <409A9E86B74@*******.mk.dmu.ac.uk> from "Neil Smith" at Apr
6,
95 10:49:57 am
Neil Smith wrote:
>
> Another LS related question:
>
> How would police go about "disarming" magicians, to prevent the
> spellworms frying the cops with a flame bomb during an arrest? So
> far I've come up with:
>
> 1. Kill the magician.
> 2. Knock them out, through drugs or stun damage
> 3. Put a bag over their heads. Normally fabric, but a plastic one
> neatly combines methods 3 and 1.
If you made 4 all of the above, I'd have picked that.
Check out LS Source book... it explains most of these. (BTW, they do no
have cameras on guns.)
--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
Finger me for my geek code
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 19:58:18 +1000
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Damion Milliken <adm82@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: V's Questions
In-Reply-To: <lfH8+R5vUjA@*****_mail.jet> from "Philip Hayward" at Apr 6,
95 10:18:21 am
Philip Hayward writes:
> I agree and thats what we rule yet is there a limit on the size of the
> object? An object could be a hand gun, a table, a car or a boeing 747 ?
> My only suggestion is to reduce the perception test to see it the larger
> the object gets? so you need a LOT of successes to hide the 747 :)
Sounds fair enough. I'd never thought about it, because it has never really
come up in my games (my players are yet to discover the wonderful uses of
Invisibility, and I'm not about to tell them by using the tactics on an NPC,
sure it'd be cool, but the spell has too many uses in the hands of PCs. When
they work it out themselves, I'll even the board <evil GM grin>). But
something like a TN mod for casting the spell, or having the perception TN
equal to the No of successes (instead of 2x), or even 1/2 the success for
big things sounds alright to me.
> But a movable barrier spell with a higher drain would be possible,
> and give a restricted target (say on vehicles) to compensate.
Yep, one could design all sorts of barriers (only I'd like to know the
specifics of the current barriers, so I have a base to work from).
> I thought the transciever just sent the images recorded by the micro-
> camcorder, or the micro-recorder. On their own the camcorder/Recorder
> do just that record. This is how we play it, and you usually add the
> transciever or additional memory for the recording devices depending on
> how you intend to collect the info. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Well, you could be right (in fact it soudns quite good to me). I was only
guessing. I think I'll wait to see what FASA has to say.
> Now, by (i) do you mean the usual radius?
Yes, I did.
--
Damion Milliken Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: adm82@***.edu.au
(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+@ H s++:-- !g p0 !au a19 w+ v(?) C++ US++>+++ P+ L !3
E? N K- W M@ !V po@ Y+ t+ 5 !j R+(++) G(+)('''') !tv(--@)
b++ D B? e+$ u@ h* f+ !r n----(--)@ !y+
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 11:58:29 +0200
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: "Fakereszt (Endreffy Janos)" <ayes@****.SCH.BME.HU>
Subject: Re: Summoniung
Comments: To: SCN User <bd042@***.ORG>
In-Reply-To: <199504060637.XAA03117@***.org>
On Wed, 5 Apr 1995, SCN User wrote:
> If you get Conjuring skill for your ally, can it then summon
> more spirits, or can it only use it to banish others?
> If the former, could an ally have an ally?
> What about free spirits?
>
> --bd042@***.org (StefHahn/Tooth of the Kahn)
>
You can only purchase _non-magical_ skills for the ally, Sorcery is a noted
exception.
IMHO free spirits might be able to learn Conjuring and/or Enchanting, but
remember, they use the Karma they acquire for making themselves stronger
(increasing their Spirit Energy, then the Force).
Wooden Cross
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 11:03:35 BST
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: P Ward <P.Ward@**.CF.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Gun cameras
> Is it standard issue for cops to have cameras on their guns, so that
> Internal Affairs can see exactly what people were shooting at? I
> would imagine the cameras would be very small, secure to alteration,
> and would also allow posthumous ID of criminals
It is, answer in the LS book, They put them on SWAT long-riles, and the LR's
didn't like it, they got really pararnoid when they knew that some pen-pusher
was going to go over every move they made, and possibly destroy their
career because they didn't make the textbook move at the right time, so
funnily enough the SWAT boys set up in places where 'freak RF fields cut off
the camera fields' or something like that.
Real world: anything that adds weight to your pistol slows up your draw/aim
time and can get you killed, post-humous criminal ID, check his teeth, and if
that doesn't work, assign him a SIN for his short trip down to the morgue.
I read over on Rec.Guns that NYPD officers don;t use laser sights, because the
user is to busy looking for the little dot on their target, to just point the
thing and shoot, wierd huh?
MY PC's love gun camera's, when they have space on their guns, they're dumb
enough to have home movies of the Universal Brotherhood run.
MST#K :- 'Oh, and hear comes Bod.'
'Oh, and hear comes the insect queen, do you think Bod's seen her?'
'Watch out Bod, she's behind you!'
'Don't woryy Bod, I willsave you head from the jaws of the ravenous
beastie by hosing down the corridor with my fully automatic weapon
until the clip is empty'.
Etc, Ad Nauseum.
Runs-With-The-Pack
Who's broken free of player domination and wants to rule the world!
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 11:04:43 BST
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: P Ward <P.Ward@**.CF.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Vince questions VII
Yup, but isn;t it something along the lines of projecting mages get
2x intelligence + Grade + _15_, or have I really fragged up this time?
Phil (Runs-With-The-Pack)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 11:06:58 BST
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: P Ward <P.Ward@**.CF.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: "Disarming" magicians
Mage-masks - a bondage-mask with a breathing hole, no way to see out, and
a good few decibels of white-noise (or if you're really cruel, Darwin's
Bastards) few straight to your ears.
Then there's prison drugs (from Harlqeuin 1) that require a willpower [12]
for the Mage to project from his body, etc.
Personally most of my sec-forces like geek-the-mage, and only use the
mask when he's in custody.
Phil (Runs-With-The-Pack)
You could always lock him in a room with only a camera to watch him, so
he can't mind-control the guards.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 19:38:03 +0930
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Vince questions VII
In-Reply-To: <9504061004.AA04762@********.cm.cf.ac.uk> from "P Ward" at
Apr 6,
95 11:04:43 am
P Ward wrote:
>
> Yup, but isn;t it something along the lines of projecting mages get
> 2x intelligence + Grade + _15_, or have I really fragged up this time?
I thought it was just Int + Grade + 10... I'll check sometime. I'm pretty
sure it's just the Int (ie, Astral reaction is calculated the same way
normal Reaction is, it's just that Astral Quick = Int.)
--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
Finger me for my geek code
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 11:10:21 BST
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: P Ward <P.Ward@**.CF.AC.UK>
Subject: Earthdawn URL
I have discovered the problem, whenever you guys try to send that little
squiggle, my Mail-tool interprets it as a single % rather than %7e. How
odd. Mosaic has no problem dipslaying it from the gophered archives.
Problem solved, I shall go and try it out now.
Phil (Runs-With-The-Pack)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 20:13:33 +1000
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Damion Milliken <adm82@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Questions
In-Reply-To: <199504041502.RAA02691@****.informatik.uni-Bremen.de> from "Jani
Fikouras" at Apr 4, 95 05:02:21 pm
Jani Fikouras writes:
> If someone hits your meat body, you automatically get dumped out of the
> astral.
Reference?
----------------------
Robert Watkins writes:
> Official. Check out the Astral Projection rules. It states (paraphrasing,
> as I don't have it with me): "The slightest injury to the mage's body while
> Astrally Projecting can result in death".
"Almost any wound to the comatose form will drive it into fatal shock."
pg 147 SRI
> One DM I knew extended this to include bumps taken in traffic.
>
> Main book, in the Astral Projection section. Real world explanation: it's
> based on myths, I think, about the body being vulnerable when the soul is
> absent.
There's the rule, and the explanation is included in it. However, I feel the
"needles will automatically kill you" bit is taking it a little too far. It
does say "Almost..." And it also says that mundane healing techniques can be
applied to the body, pg 147 also, so I guess you can inflict minor cuts and
stuff and not kill the magician.
--
Damion Milliken Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: adm82@***.edu.au
(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+@ H s++:-- !g p0 !au a19 w+ v(?) C++ US++>+++ P+ L !3
E? N K- W M@ !V po@ Y+ t+ 5 !j R+(++) G(+)('''') !tv(--@)
b++ D B? e+$ u@ h* f+ !r n----(--)@ !y+
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 20:23:24 +1000
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Damion Milliken <adm82@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Ultrasounds and White Noise
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.91.950404143407.2331B-100000@****.engr.ucdavis.edu>
from "Adam Getchell" at Apr 4, 95 02:43:51 pm
Adam Getchell writes:
> There is a base intensity I0 which the human ear can detect, something
> like 10E-12 Watts/meter^2. Something with 10 times as much energy sounds
> about twice as loud or so, which is how the human ear can detect a wide
> range of sound energies from a rock concert to a whisper. So you see, how
> loud the sound is tells you its energy, automatically.
So you're saying that the ultrasound sight could be used to (what is it,
"triangulate"?) the source of the ECM jamming? Assuming that ultrasound
sights must mave more than a single receptor to actually get a 3-D image,
and that they are spaced far enough apart to be able to resolve this image -
I remember the debate a while back on this topic [if I got it a little
wrong, you know what I mean anyway I hope] then these same detectors could
instead sample the relative energies of the jamming signal, and a bit of
calculation could be done to determine the origin of the signal. Right?
[Here we veer way of topic, buuut...] So could a submarine, using sonar, get
around active jamming by another submarine using the same technique (or more
to the point, do they)?
--
Damion Milliken Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: adm82@***.edu.au
(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+@ H s++:-- !g p0 !au a19 w+ v(?) C++ US++>+++ P+ L !3
E? N K- W M@ !V po@ Y+ t+ 5 !j R+(++) G(+)('''') !tv(--@)
b++ D B? e+$ u@ h* f+ !r n----(--)@ !y+
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 19:54:48 +0930
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Questions
In-Reply-To: <199504061013.UAA15283@******.cc.uow.edu.au> from "Damion
Milliken" at Apr 6, 95 08:13:33 pm
Damion Milliken wrote:
> There's the rule, and the explanation is included in it. However, I feel the
> "needles will automatically kill you" bit is taking it a little too far. It
> does say "Almost..." And it also says that mundane healing techniques can
be
> applied to the body, pg 147 also, so I guess you can inflict minor cuts and
> stuff and not kill the magician.
You've never had a needle the way they give them up here, then...
(Also, there's lots of mundane healing techniques that don't cut... first
aid typically doesn't cut, neither do patches, etc.)
Normally, what I do is that if you'd need a damage resistance test, it'd
kill you. Some other things might kill you as well (ie, bumpy roads aren't
normally a threat, but to a projecting mage, they would be).
--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
Finger me for my geek code
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 20:29:23 +1000
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Damion Milliken <adm82@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Paul J. Adam's posts in regard to the Magic/tech issue
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9504042233.A5401-0100000@********.io.com> from "Tim
Serpas" at Apr 4, 95 10:52:42 pm
Tim Serpas writes:
> I've seen a couple of web pages with character histories and annecdotes, and
> enjoyed them quite a bit. I've been thinking about doing some archives of
> our own group, even.
>
> So what's the level of interest? Will the bandwidth be too much?
No, I think it'd be a great idea. You don't neccessarily have to post them
if you don't want to, Paolo is quite happy to accept contributions to his
WWW page.
--
Damion Milliken Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: adm82@***.edu.au
(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+@ H s++:-- !g p0 !au a19 w+ v(?) C++ US++>+++ P+ L !3
E? N K- W M@ !V po@ Y+ t+ 5 !j R+(++) G(+)('''') !tv(--@)
b++ D B? e+$ u@ h* f+ !r n----(--)@ !y+
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 19:59:51 +0930
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Ultrasounds and White Noise
In-Reply-To: <199504061023.UAA16193@******.cc.uow.edu.au> from "Damion
Milliken" at Apr 6, 95 08:23:24 pm
Damion Milliken wrote:
>
> [Here we veer way of topic, buuut...] So could a submarine, using sonar, get
> around active jamming by another submarine using the same technique (or more
> to the point, do they)?
While far from being an expert on this... the only jamming techniques for
sonar I've heard of involves creating echoes. You're definetely still
detected, but some other things might be as well. Depending on the
acoustics, this may or may not work. Also, many of these tricks would be
harder (if not impossible) to pull off in air.
White noise generators aren't there to try to hide you... they are there to
try and mask you. Different story altogether. To get around ultrasound, I'd
use a sonic variation on the invisibility spell, to warp sound waves around
you, or (better yet) through you.
--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
Finger me for my geek code
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 20:31:03 +1000
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Damion Milliken <adm82@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: My questions V
In-Reply-To: <199504050842.AA00452@***.xs4all.nl> from "Gurth" at Apr 5,
95 10:42:46 am
Gurth writes:
> This brings me to something I've been wondering about for some time: if
> you've only ever seen someone's astral self, would you recognize him if you
> met him on the physical plane (with or without assensing him)? I mean, your
> "idealized self-image" can look _very_ different from what you look like in
> everyday life...
Exactly, so unless the viewer got another look at the persons aura, then he
would have no idea he'd met/seen them before. Unless, of course, the persons
astral image was very similar to their real image.
--
Damion Milliken Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: adm82@***.edu.au
(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+@ H s++:-- !g p0 !au a19 w+ v(?) C++ US++>+++ P+ L !3
E? N K- W M@ !V po@ Y+ t+ 5 !j R+(++) G(+)('''') !tv(--@)
b++ D B? e+$ u@ h* f+ !r n----(--)@ !y+
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 20:36:29 +1000
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Damion Milliken <adm82@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Questions - my own, not anyone elses
In-Reply-To: <9504051010.AA11117@********.cm.cf.ac.uk> from "P Ward" at
Apr 5,
95 11:10:05 am
P Ward writes:
> Those damn Anti-personnel grenades only count as D damage against an
> unarmoured target, they are flechettes after all... Unless of course you
> rule that they count as a D if _any_ of the target is unarmoured (Hey now,
> there's an idea, they won't lagh at AP again), but that would also be the
> case with regular flechete/bucky rounds?
No, you wouldn't do that. Remember SR armour is a "probability" thing, so if
they have armour, then they'd get the bonus. Hang on, armour isn't the
determining factor, all an armoured person gets over an unarmoured person is
the benefit of the Power level reduction (Ballistic, or 2xImpact, whichever
is better). It's dermal armour which reduces the damage code increase
resulting from flechette rounds (which means trolls never have to worry
about the +1 Damage Catagory for flechette rounds, they take normal damage,
and have the added bonus that if they're wearing armour, they'll get a
superior rating [probably]).
--
Damion Milliken Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: adm82@***.edu.au
(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+@ H s++:-- !g p0 !au a19 w+ v(?) C++ US++>+++ P+ L !3
E? N K- W M@ !V po@ Y+ t+ 5 !j R+(++) G(+)('''') !tv(--@)
b++ D B? e+$ u@ h* f+ !r n----(--)@ !y+
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 11:43:58 BST
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: P Ward <P.Ward@**.CF.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Questions - my own, not anyone elses
> It's dermal armour which reduces the damage code increase resulting from
> flechette rounds
I thought that Buckshot/Packet Flechette's only increased the damage level
against _Unarmoured_ targets, and that Dermal armour _also_ gave the added
benefit that you're immune to the damage increasing powers of Flech/Buck.
the only real use for buckhost is reducing the TNo to @'s and having more
dice than the other guy does. Then you can chew him to pieces.
Mind as you are the Guru (speech, speech!) I shall go home and check up
the rules in the combat section to see it is _any_ target. If it isn't
maybe I'll change it anyway, I like the idea of flechette's/AP..
Phil (Runs-With-The-Pack)
and Snipers-With-Flechettes)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 12:56:58 +0200
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Jan-bart van Beek <flake@***.NL>
Subject: Were-creatures
I never really liked the entire critter section, but nevermind.
There is a short mentioning about lycantrophy in the NA guide to the
Awakened (If you don't know what it is read the FAQ)
It is strange that FASA seems to have left this dark area virtually
untouched, the shapeshifters that are mentioned are not at all like the
the true lycantrophs. They are not nearly as dangerous.
If you want some well-written information on them, read the "Van
Richten's Guide to Werebeasts".
I already can hear the 'AAARGH's that's a AD&D product'
Wrong, it's a Ravenloft Product. Ravenloft and Planescape are about the
only two product-lines of TSR that actually are worth the money.
For more info on the beasts, check out Chill and Gurps' 'Lycantrophy, the
Apocalypse'
By the way, another misconception about lycantrophs that FASA has published.
Remember the Loup-garou from PNA europe. You know what the Loup-Garou
realy was ? It almost literally means Werewolf, loup coming from Lupus,
the latin word for wolf.
Strange thing is, it doesn't resemble the werewolf one little bit.
--------------------------------------------------------------
| Beware of what you ask for you may recieve it |
--------------------------------------------------------------
**** The Cornflake Killer Strikes again ****
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 21:00:58 +1000
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Damion Milliken <adm82@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: New spell part II, comments again?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SGI.3.91.950405110924.19332A-100000@*****.jsp.umontreal.ca>
from "Menard Steve" at Apr 5, 95 11:12:37 am
Menard Steve writes:
> Regeneration :
>
> [Snip]
>
> The caster imbues the target with a dormant spell. Once the target is
> hurt (ANY wound at all, be it only biting your tongue or slapping your
> forehead!) will activate it. Once it is activated, it will stay activated
> until the target becomes unconscious(either through sleep or combat). Then,
> he takes drain.
The dormancy/activate bit sounds too much like an anchored spell. I think
the desired effect should be done with anchoring, rather than making a spell
which supersedes the anchoring metamagical ability. Because, following the
precedence set by the Regeneration spell, one could design spells with what
were effectively anchorings links built into them, which is not good in my
view because it replaces a metamagical ability with something any
non-initiate can do.
> What the spell does it tap into the targets energy reserves to improve
> it's healing capacity. In effect the target heals one box after each
> initiative rolls(or every 3 seconds) up to the level of damage that was
> sustained BEFORE the spell was cast. There are no theorical limit to the
> number of boxes that can be healed. If the target falls unconscious because
> of stun or physical damage, or even normal sleep, the spell is terminated
> and releases its drain upon the target. when the spell stops the target
> suffers [total boxes healed/4]D drain resisted with Body or
> Willpower(whichever is higher). Yes, it can kill someone!
Hmmm, very different to any other spell, that's for sure. I like the after
effects though, they kinda balance it. But if you think about it, it isn't
really that much of a balancing effect. Say Sammy Saurannus wants to go for
a rock 'n' roll into some corp facility. He thinks to himself, "I'm gunna
likely take lots of damage, so I'll get my friend, Mage Mageus to cast a
Regeneration spell on me. Now, if I didn't have the spell, then I'd die
after 10 wounds. While now that I do have the spell, I can survive for 40
wounds [or whatever], and then when I go down, I die anyway, who cares if I
take drain?" In some cases it could be a worry (like if you have a platinum
docwagon and a wish for it to be useful), but mostly it's not something
you'd be overly worried about. If you go down, odds are you're not going to
be able to be healed anyway (the bad guys'll either geek you, or leave you
to bleed to death while they treat _their_ wounded).
> The unstable nature of the spell prevents someone from always having one
> active, normal life consists of constant little wounds that would trigger
> the healing process.
But I can get it cast on me when I wake up in the morning, and who cares if
I stub my toe? It still runs all day long, and I get the benefits for the
whole day, more if I don't go to sleep (or get geeked).
> Astral Blind :
See Astral Static, pg 131 the Grimything. Seems pretty much the same to me.
Although if you specifically want it to only effect assensing and
spellcasting, and be in the shape of a barrier spell, then it sounds
perfectly ok to me. Just a slightly scaled down and differently shaped
Astral static spell. With reduced drain because of these things.
--
Damion Milliken Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: adm82@***.edu.au
(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+@ H s++:-- !g p0 !au a19 w+ v(?) C++ US++>+++ P+ L !3
E? N K- W M@ !V po@ Y+ t+ 5 !j R+(++) G(+)('''') !tv(--@)
b++ D B? e+$ u@ h* f+ !r n----(--)@ !y+
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 13:05:49 +0200
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Schreiner Thomas <schreini@**********.FH-AUGSBURG.DE>
Subject: Re: "Disarming" magicians
In-Reply-To: <409A9E86B74@*******.mk.dmu.ac.uk> from "Neil Smith" at Apr
6,
95 10:49:57 am
Hi!
Another way to disarm a magicen is to put him infrared-glasses on.
Or something like that that works electical, because the mage needs
to see his victim directly.
but do not forget to make sure he is not able to free himself of the
glasses!!
Thomas Schreiner
ps.: please excuse my bad english im from germany
schreini@***********.de
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 13:15:40 +0100
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: ATREIDE - Aymeric RICHARD <arichard@****.IRESTE.FR>
Subject: Re: Summoniung
StefHahn/Tooth of the Kahn wrote :
> If you get Conjuring skill for your ally, can it then summon
> more spirits, or can it only use it to banish others?
> If the former, could an ally have an ally?
> What about free spirits?
According to me a spirit (free or not) cannot summon another. There is no
reason for it, as there is no fact that showed a sapiens summoning another.
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| "Enjoy your life, it's so short when you have a Dragon in front of you..." |
| |
| Aymeric RICHARD - Atreide on IRC E-Mail : arichard@****.ireste.fr |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 21:17:43 +1000
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Damion Milliken <adm82@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: New armor.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SGI.3.91.950405111244.19332B-100000@*****.jsp.umontreal.ca>
from "Menard Steve" at Apr 5, 95 11:23:01 am
Menard Steve writes:
> Following the spells I posted, here are the power-armors. Some of you
> will probably consider them munchkinous, but since they're not destined
> to fall in players hand, it should be ok.
I wouldn't ever say something like that if I were you. Sure, it sounds fine
from a GM POV, but just step into the shoes of a player for a moment...
(pause to allow us all to remember the last time we were players) How
frustrating it would be, and how entirely unfair. It should be possible for
the players to get ahold of anything which is used against them (eventually
at least) although it may not be easy or cheap to do so. It is blatently
unjust and makes no sense in a real world way if they cannot find it PERIOD.
If it exists, then there will be a way to get it (again, probably not easy,
cheap or nice on the runners, their karma pools or their reputations, but a
way nonetheless).
> Cyber Power-Armors
Sounds good enough to me. Maybe a little too advanced for some games (like
mine), but good for the basis of a run, ie, a protoype, rather than actually
having it as something being used. You realise that there are a couple of
versions of various power armours floating around out there already with SR
stats and histories, so it isn't entirely original. Although yours is
obviously different to the others I've seen, so there's nothing wrong with
that.
--
Damion Milliken Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: adm82@***.edu.au
(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+@ H s++:-- !g p0 !au a19 w+ v(?) C++ US++>+++ P+ L !3
E? N K- W M@ !V po@ Y+ t+ 5 !j R+(++) G(+)('''') !tv(--@)
b++ D B? e+$ u@ h* f+ !r n----(--)@ !y+
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 13:22:30 +0100
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: ATREIDE - Aymeric RICHARD <arichard@****.IRESTE.FR>
Subject: Re: Allies
Stefan Hahn/Tooth of the Kahn wrote :
> Here's an idea: can an ally/free spirit/sprits in general use foci?
> what if they get someone else to pay for it?
No spirit can have karma (at least in 1st Edition), so someone else has
to pay for it.
I have no objection to the fact a ally or free spirit can use foci. Foci are
made of the "construct of the universe" ins't it, as are made spirits of.
(I am not sure it is good english sorry)
> Would the ally of a shaman also gain totem bonuses, or could it
> be somehow written into the spirit formula?
> (would this require a special quest to the totem's metaplane, to ask
> a native of that plane to be his/her ally?)
The totem gives bonuses to a specific person that is mentaly close to it(him?).
A spirit is alien to human mind so cannot be close to a totem.
Therefore, NO an ally cannot have totem bonuses (or restriction).
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| "Enjoy your life, it's so short when you have a Dragon in front of you..." |
| |
| Aymeric RICHARD - Atreide on IRC E-Mail : arichard@****.ireste.fr |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 21:24:16 +1000
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Damion Milliken <adm82@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Wards -Reply
In-Reply-To: <sf8291d0.074@*****.wstf.nasa.gov> from "Louis Barrera" at
Apr 5,
95 12:51:07 pm
Louis Barrera writes:
> The only point I can see is that it gives the unknowing mage a chance to
> save the item in question. If unknowingly, a mage with a spell lock
> attempts to cross a ward, it doesn't immediately trash the lock, unless it
> is at least Rating 8 (it needs eight net sucesses to "kill" the item.) The
> mage cannot continue through the ward without getting eight net
> sucesses either. And the item won't go thru until the combat is resolved,
> reguardless of whether the bearer makes it. The game effect is like
> moving thru water, it slows down the individual.
Yeah, that's true (BTW, it is only 6 successes, since wards do Light damage,
2 sucesses takes it to Moderate, 4 to Serious and 6 to Deadly). But wards
are especially useful for clearing out those spell locked Increase Attribute
spells the magicians lock onto the whole team (well, close enough to it),
and it is kinda poor that you need a quite grunty ward to do this (like
level 6+). But, wards still protect areas from astral intrusion very nicely,
even if they aren't foci mashing machines. And it does mean that the
magician needs to deactivate any foci before he can pass through a warded
area, or he needs to kill the ward if he has quickened spells - which alerts
the maker and well, bad things tend to happen then.
--
Damion Milliken Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: adm82@***.edu.au
(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+@ H s++:-- !g p0 !au a19 w+ v(?) C++ US++>+++ P+ L !3
E? N K- W M@ !V po@ Y+ t+ 5 !j R+(++) G(+)('''') !tv(--@)
b++ D B? e+$ u@ h* f+ !r n----(--)@ !y+
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 21:44:32 +1000
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Damion Milliken <adm82@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Ares Viper Slivergun
In-Reply-To: <9504052154.AA00456@******.net> from "Bob Ooton" at Apr 5,
95 04:54:20 pm
Paul Jonathan Adam writes:
> Since everything else lists the damage for a single shot (even weapons that
> only fire full-auto) then it's 12D(f) for each of two bursts. Ouch. Even
> with double impact that's going to hurt. And you have two bursts instead of
> the one you get with, say, a Savalette Guardian. Ouch twice in succession.
Yep, by the rules, that is correct. Very nasty. I have decided that it is,
as the book says, a light pitol with heavy pitol ranges. Hence it does 6L =>
6M(f) => 9S(f) with burst. The most important thing to remember is that it
suffers fairly shockingly from recoil, since you cannot put a GV onto it as
it already has a silencer on the barrel.
> SR2 says it's silenced. I go with the silencer modifiers, but there is an
> extra penalty for burst fire.
Yeah, treat it as a combination silencer/sound suppressor. So if you are
firing SA, it gets the +4 perception modifer, while if you fire BF, it only
gets +2. The thing is, after all, built into the weapon.
> Technically I mumble that it's because it only fires a specific type of
> flechette ammunition which is easier to suppress but also rather unusual.
Actually, as far as the rules are concerned, it fires the exact same ammo as
other light pistols. It is only peoples interpretations of just what the
Viper is that have given it different ammo types. If you just rule that it
fires standard ammo, then you have very few problems.
> but it's not universally used, which is the hallmark of an unbalanced
> weapon. When *everyone* uses the same gun, the system's out of balance :-)
BTW, do you find that the Ingram Smartgun is vastly superior to all other
SMGs?
--------------
P Ward writes:
> [Good Viper explanation]
OTOH, one can make the Viper something really special. Like this, with its
own set of ammo etc. Pretty cool actually.
--
Damion Milliken Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: adm82@***.edu.au
(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+@ H s++:-- !g p0 !au a19 w+ v(?) C++ US++>+++ P+ L !3
E? N K- W M@ !V po@ Y+ t+ 5 !j R+(++) G(+)('''') !tv(--@)
b++ D B? e+$ u@ h* f+ !r n----(--)@ !y+
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 13:52:19 +0200
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Jan-bart van Beek <flake@***.NL>
Subject: Knock Back Revisited
I recently bought 'Farewell to Weapons', a short story by Katsuhiro
Otomo, the creator of Akira.
This was the very first manga-story to show the so-called powered
armours, which we now call mili-spec grade armor (the one's by Fuchi)
In one scene a soldier steps on a mine, ofcourse the guy get's blown back
a couple of meters by the explosion, he's kinda dizzy, but he's unharmed.
In another scene another soldier get's hit by a partical beam weapon. The
weapon hits him full frontal on his chest plate. The soldier is kncked
back against a wall by the blast, and then continues by puking his helmet
full of crap. He's obviously stunned, but he's unharmed, his armor
stopped the blast, just as it stopped the mine in the previous scene.
My point is that although you're armor jacket stops the round flat,
there's a shockwave going through you're suit and it's gonna shake you up
a bit.
Another thing, by FASA rulings, you don't go down unless you're actually
harmed. These seems wrong in the case of explosions or powerfull bullets
that are stopped flat by your 12/9 milispec grade, because in these cases
there's definetly going to be an impact. And that impact will be enough
to knock you down, even if you don't get hurt.
I feel that when you get hit by a bullet, there is not only gonna be a
physical wound but also a stun type wound.
How about this.
Someone get's hit by a power 9m bullet with five successes. He has armor 7/4.
He first roles his Combat Dice against power minus ballistic, if he gets
more successes then his attacker he goes free, otherwise go one with the
net amount of successes.He roles 2 successes, he goes on with 3 left.
In gameterms he has managed to dodge thwo of his attackers successes. The
bullet hits him full with three successes
- He then roles body dice vs power minus ballistic. He gets five
successes, and gets away with a light wound.
- But the bullet also hit his armor, probably splatting itself all over it.
So roll Body vs power minus impact, and remember the bullet hit him with
three successes. He get's 4 successes which means he just suffered a
moderate stun.
- Now throw body vs power, if he doesn't get two successes (light(1) +
moderate(3) divided by two(round up) = 2) he goes down.
Too nasty maybe, could be. But it is justified. In future warfare people
don't get hurt, they just become immobilized. What do you think happens
when a bullet ricochettes of your helmet, you just gained yourself a
hell of a headache, eventhough you're not physically wounded.
Think about it.
But maybe you should only use this when dealing with hardened armor.
--------------------------------------------------------------
| Beware of what you ask for you may recieve it |
--------------------------------------------------------------
**** The Cornflake Killer Strikes again ****
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 13:51:13 +0100
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: ATREIDE - Aymeric RICHARD <arichard@****.IRESTE.FR>
Subject: Re: Allies
>
> On Wed, 5 Apr 1995, SCN User wrote:
>
> > If you get Conjuring skill for your ally, can it then summon
> > more spirits, or can it only use it to banish others?
> > If the former, could an ally have an ally?
> > What about free spirits?
> >
> > --bd042@***.org (StefHahn/Tooth of the Kahn)
> >
>
>
> You can only purchase _non-magical_ skills for the ally, Sorcery is a noted
> exception.
> IMHO free spirits might be able to learn Conjuring and/or Enchanting, but
> remember, they use the Karma they acquire for making themselves stronger
> (increasing their Spirit Energy, then the Force).
>
> Wooden Cross
>
Well, I have to read rules again. I did not remember that allies can have karma!There is
definitevely too many sourcebooks to read and remember!
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| "Enjoy your life, it's so short when you have a Dragon in front of you..." |
| |
| Aymeric RICHARD - Atreide on IRC E-Mail : arichard@****.ireste.fr |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 21:55:59 +1000
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Damion Milliken <adm82@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Flogging C or N
In-Reply-To: <sf82c73f.092@*****.wstf.nasa.gov> from "Louis Barrera" at
Apr 5,
95 04:39:17 pm
Louis Barrera writes:
> Question, how does a spear know if it is for jabbing or if it is for
> throwing. Or does it only work while in the mages hand, as stated in the
> rules.
Well, the spear doesn't know - it is an inanimate object <grin>. But I'd
have to go for the "if it leaves your hands, it is no longer active" rule,
like the book says.
> No, I don't have any other grand ideas, other than spells, or maybe dual
> natured, astrally projecting critters with ranged attacks (a long way to say
> dragon's breath).
Remember that dual natured creatures cannot use their Powers on the astral,
pg 87 the Grimything, so the dragon breath is out.
> I'll bounce it off THE SOURCE and see what comes up.
Good plan. Be sure to post the response.
> Well, the problem with that is if you go by combat phases astrally, the
> one who goes first could just move into some labyrinth, no test required.
> [Snip]
Yeah, I see your point. Astral evasion is a little more complex than I
portrayed it. You are right.
> I think it's "state" would reflect (sorry) what was happening on the
> physical plane. If it was in light, then it would allow astral perception
> through it. And the reverse. Without those on the etheric being aware
> of what was occuring on the physical. Another reason I don't go along
> with the WYTIWYG theory.
Hmm, I'm more for the "it's like that 'cause it is" theory myself, rather
than the WYTIWYG theory (although I agree with the idea up to a point). I
don't really think the current lighting conditions on the physical would
effect the transparency of objects on the astral though, as you seem to have
indicated.
--
Damion Milliken Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: adm82@***.edu.au
(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+@ H s++:-- !g p0 !au a19 w+ v(?) C++ US++>+++ P+ L !3
E? N K- W M@ !V po@ Y+ t+ 5 !j R+(++) G(+)('''') !tv(--@)
b++ D B? e+$ u@ h* f+ !r n----(--)@ !y+
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 21:32:22 +0930
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Ares Viper Slivergun
In-Reply-To: <199504061144.VAA21767@******.cc.uow.edu.au> from "Damion
Milliken" at Apr 6, 95 09:44:32 pm
Damion Milliken wrote:
>
> BTW, do you find that the Ingram Smartgun is vastly superior to all other
> SMGs?
I find the Smartgun vastly cheaper, but the integral Gas Vent is rather
poor, and you can't just take it out and replace it. (I've ruled in the
past that it was possible to dismantle the gun, and put fittings in for
another Gas Vent, but it's a Firearms B/R test).
--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
Finger me for my geek code
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 08:19:32 -0400
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: robert frazine <shade@*****.EDU>
Subject: Re: Sioux Cops (was Magic or Tech)
In-Reply-To: <199504060803.AA28963@***.xs4all.nl>
On Thu, 6 Apr 1995, Gurth wrote:
> <Snip> Wild-cats with full support, and mil-spec gear.
>
> Weren't military units prohibited from entering the FRFZ? If so (if my
> memory serves me right, that is :), the other countries would get a bit
> pissed off at the Sioux, wouldn't they?
> I write:
Military is not allowed in Denver, however, the security for
the particular sector (sioux in this case) is usually made up of
"retired" military. Oh and Milspec gear is allocated to said
security forces...Oh and by retired they usually mean soldiers
about four to six years into their military careers.(i.e. veterans)
Remember it's not the gun that
kills, it's that Ugly Troll
Carrying the gun that kills.
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 14:20:59 +0200
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Magic or Tech...
In-Reply-To: <9504052223.AA00791@******.net> from "Bob Ooton" at Apr 5,
95 05:22:59 pm
> Also, you seem to be the only one who's lost it over this subject. Were I
> REALLY wanting to make arguments, I'd have a field day with this post...
Go ahead make my day :)
> Have I flamed anyone? Not that I know of...
Excuse me, but I consider arugents like "mage players=munchkins" to be
one of the worst insults you can possinly use to flame someone on this list.
> Do I always know better? No, that's why I asked questions...
And yet you asked them in a patronising tone of voice that suggested
that you already knew what would come out. Calling someone a munchkin is
no simple thing. Flame wars have started over such an insult - ask thw
whistler.
I include here portions of a private exchange I had with Paul Jonathan Adam
the >ed stuff is me talking.
> [Really cool stuff about how saamies are cooler than mages]
>
> Let me explain myself I think that no one here believes that sammies are
> boring or less powerfull or less *insert favourite property* than mages
> (I certainly dont). A samie can be as intelligent, witty, beautifull,
> charming, wise as anyone else on the planet.
>
> Samies do not prevent roleplaying, on the contrary. Sammies as many
> others already pointed out rely on things that are already an integral part
> of our real life lives, things like technology, skills, themselves this makes
> them definitely easier to understand and as a consequence easier to play.
>
> Easier to play does not mean less enjoyable or lesser roleplaying potential
> it means easier to get into their mindset. Unfortunately this is what makes
> them interesting to players who are not interested in roleplaying but rather
> rollplaying - THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT THIS DOES NOT HAPPEN WITH MAGES but
> a munchkin playing a mage would have to memorise the grimoire first ) and
> that is a slight deterant.
Sadly, in my experience (which certainly is different to yours) the munchkins
see all those extra rules as a way to get ahead, by finding chinks the GM
can't or doesn't have time to investigate.
> Anyway this is the reason why sammies have aquired the image of the
> cyber-monster that stuters things like "Out of the way meat!" :)
> However as many of you have already pointed out, sammies can have very complex
> backgrounds/characters and can be on the whole very enjoyable and well rounded
> characters to roleplay.
Agreed - see my post to the group where I tell you to cool down a little :-)
Samurai can be as one-dimensional and banal as any other characters - more so,
in fact, since they can easily become "Arnold Schwarzenwhatsit, yeah, but with
an even bigger gun..." You should have seen my first ever Shadowrun character:
as I said to the group, within two weeks his nickname was Bozo. I perhaps
didn't make that point early enough or clearly enough.
> OTOH mages have tons of rules about all sorts of weird things, this tends
> to make them more complex by default - THIS IS AS FAR AS THE RULES ARE
> CONCERNED, A MAGE CAN BE AS DUMM AND STRAIGHTFORWARD AS ANY RETARD. And these
> rules are the reason why we talk about magic all the time on the List.
Again, agreed at least in part: certainly the point we were arguing was that
roleplaying per se is independent of character class, and we appear to be
together on this one.
As for the mages-versus-the-world notion...well, at the risk of opening a can
of live bait, my personal opinion is that it is much easier to powergame
a magician than any other class, but it is just that - opinion - and *my* game
reflects that. On the other hand, magicians can be incredibly powerful in the
campaign I'm involved in...as long as they're interesting characters. Other
people play different ways. Again, the diversity is what makes groups like
SHADOWRN interesting. I don't demand or even want agreement and I don't want to
convert anyone to "my way" of playing Shadowrun: I just like listening to other
people's ideas and throwing out my own.
--
"Believe in Angels." -- The Crow
GCS d H s+: !g p1 !au a- w+ v-(?) C++++ UA++S++L+>++++ L+>+++ E--- N++ W(+)(---)
M-- !V(--) -po+(---) Y+ t++ 5++ R+++ tv b++ e+ u++(-) h*(+) f+ r- n!(-) y?
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 14:24:04 +0200
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: list.member.grumpy speaks
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.3.91.950405151633.25591A-100000 from "G'Koth of the
Narn Regime" at Apr 5, 95 03:34:52 pm
> Okay Jani, chill. I've been following this thread and _I've_ seen no
> real flaming until your post (and I should know about flames).
Yeah ya sure do :) Anyway I got hed up with Bob's patronising atitude,
hell he even said it outright "mage players=munchkins". Now I consider
myself to be a mage player and I sentenly take offence when called a
munchkin. And so do you if I recall correctly :)
> I must say that I begin to tire of this whole debate. Depending on your
> individual game, your individual GM, your individual players, you will
> get a very different bias, unique to each game.
I agree read my reply to Bob for the gory details.
--
"Believe in Angels." -- The Crow
GCS d H s+: !g p1 !au a- w+ v-(?) C++++ UA++S++L+>++++ L+>+++ E--- N++ W(+)(---)
M-- !V(--) -po+(---) Y+ t++ 5++ R+++ tv b++ e+ u++(-) h*(+) f+ r- n!(-) y?
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 05:24:06 -0700
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Eve Forward <lutra@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Were-creatures
There's a lot of shapeshifter-like legends that don't always fit into
the standard werewolf-style rules of lycanthropy; selkies (seal shape-
shifters in Scottish and Irish legend, for example) don't have an
infectious bite, for example.
I've long thought about doing some research and compiling a
list of various different shapeshifters, based on actual legends, with
references as to sources and what they supposable can and can't do.
Would anyone else be interested in this?
-E
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 05:30:35 -0700
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Eve Forward <lutra@******.COM>
Subject: Critters
From what I've seen, the Critters section might want a bit of "pumping".
Having been on the wrong end of, or seen people who have been on the
wrong end of, some of those real animals, I think a few of those
damage codes are a bit low. There's some pretty impressive stuff out
there; your average hawk exterts a force of 350 pounds of pressure per
talon when he bears down on you, for example... and I've seen a dog
attack that left the victim's arm looking like one of those rotating
meat haunches they have at the taco stands in Tiajuana.
Anyone interested in various animal stuff, pertaining to
Shadowrun or whatever, can mail me.
-E
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 22:52:40 +1000
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Damion Milliken <adm82@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Vince questions VII
In-Reply-To: <9504060104.AA17540@*******.etu.gmc.ulaval.ca> from "Vincent
Pellerin" at Apr 5, 95 09:24:30 pm
Vincent Pellerin writes:
> What is the rating of a magical item with multiple
> enchantements for the grounding and astral combat ?
I'm pretty sure it is the sum of the Ratings, but after a look through the
books I can't find where I got that idea from, so I can't really give you an
answer.
> Do you activate it a function at a time (does it count as
> multiple magic item for the limit SRII.137) ?
Although I have no real basis for this, I'd say it only counted as a single
focus, but you had to have the entire thing active at once or off at once.
> If you activate a stacked enchantements focus containing
> a spell lock, does it dissapear (spell locks become insubstantial
> when sustaining a spell).
Hey, damn good question. I really don't know. Also, how about if I make my
spell lock in the form of a katana? Very useful for sneaking it past guards
and such.
> What is the astral reaction of a mage in astral projection ?
The Grimything supercedes the main rule book, so use the value given in it.
It says that astral Reaction is different from phsyical Reaction, and is
always equal to the characters Intelligence Attribute (pg 86). So an astral
magician (uninitiated) would have an astral Initiative of Int+15+1D6, while
an Initiate would have Int+Grade+15+1D6. While spirits get Force+20+1D6.
> GII.86 (Shadowtech) Human on the astral
I always though that those particular pieces of cyber/bioware which actually
stated they modifed your astral Attributes were the only ones which did (ie
Cerebral Booster & Encephalon). But someone said that this was corrected in
a second printing or some such thing, and that they no longer do. Is there
perhaps an errata floating around out there? Failing that, I'd use the
Grimything, since it came out later (and therefore over-rules previous
publishings). But, upon looking in the Grimything, it says "Generally
speaking...", which means that some bits of 'ware might. In which case I'd
go back to S-Tech and look for the particualr exceptions, and then,
depending on which printing of S-Tech I had, I'd get a different answer.
Could someone tell us what the second printing od S-Tech has to say on the
subject?
> Is the personal form of these spells having the same
> effect as the physical barrier (SRII.158) : force field of cracling
> energy, with a visibility modifier of +1 ?
You've already seen my confusion over Barrier spells, but I would say that
the personal form of the Physical Barrier would also have the +1.
> GII.131 Blade barrier
>
> What is the use of this spell, for a big area ? Keep to
> knifes out of it ?
>
> [Humerous example snipped]
Yeah, I see your point. Nobody I know has ever used the Blade Barrier (I
mean, just how useful could it be in 2050? compared to, say, a Bullet
Barrier), so the point has never come up. When you think about it, the spell
is more or less useless, unless someone throws a knife at you. Hmm, come to
think of it, would a Bullet Barrier exclude unfired ammunition from passing
through it? Or would it exclude the sammie with the 9mm round embedded in
his chest?
--
Damion Milliken Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: adm82@***.edu.au
(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+@ H s++:-- !g p0 !au a19 w+ v(?) C++ US++>+++ P+ L !3
E? N K- W M@ !V po@ Y+ t+ 5 !j R+(++) G(+)('''') !tv(--@)
b++ D B? e+$ u@ h* f+ !r n----(--)@ !y+
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 14:58:17 +0200
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Were-creatures
In-Reply-To: <SHADOWRN%95040517391574@***.SURFNET.NL> from "Walter Stim"
at
Apr 5, 95 10:14:08 am
> I a question concerning Were-creatures.
>
> 1. If a were-creature bits someone do they become a were?
> B. No
> 2. Can the victim (bitee) be cured before possible becoming a were?
Irreleveant.
> 3. What would the tests/target numbers for curing/cleansing?
Irrelevant.
You should however try to not confuse were creatueres (a different species)
with Loup-Garous (sic?).
--
"Believe in Angels." -- The Crow
GCS d H s+: !g p1 !au a- w+ v-(?) C++++ UA++S++L+>++++ L+>+++ E--- N++ W(+)(---)
M-- !V(--) -po+(---) Y+ t++ 5++ R+++ tv b++ e+ u++(-) h*(+) f+ r- n!(-) y?
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 23:20:34 +1000
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Damion Milliken <adm82@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Allies
SCN User writes:
> Here's an idea: can an ally/free spirit/sprits in general use foci? what
> if they get someone else to pay for it?
As far as the rules are concerned, the only thing Free Spirits can do with
their Karma (well, not really _their_ karma, but anyhow) is increase their
Spirit Energy. But I see nothing wrong with Free spirits buying skills with
their karma. (Note, as has been said, allies cannot have Conjuring, Magical
Theory, or Enchanting skills, pg 70 Grimything.) Free spirits could, maybe,
depending on you as a GM, get other magical skills, but I'd be wary at least
of doing this, and make sure it was neccessary for the storyline or
something first. Now, in a similar manner, I could see my way clear to allow
Free spirits to bond foci if they really wanted to (kinda useless though, I
mean, what happens to that Power Focus earing when the spirits un-manifests?
It goes drop, and lands on the ground, and the spirit has to wait until it
manifests again to pick it up.) Same with Allies and Foci, but the magician
would have to fork out the karma for it. (Not something I'd be doing - why
give the focus to your Ally, a being which might go free one day, bond the
thing to yourself instead).
Hmm, quick question: Can a magician have several foci of the same type
bonded at the same time? Like two level 3 Power Foci simultaneously bonded?
I'd always said you could, but is this the case?
> Exactly how large can you make allies and the like?
> (i.e. Ganesh, the Elephant shaman, summons his friend Jumbo, who
> manifests directly over your head. Have a nice (if flat) day!)
> can spirits appear as inanimate objects if they want?
Um, as it stands, there are no limitations on the appearance of Allies, yes,
your ally could have the physical form of a Mac truck. Kinda of obtrusive,
but could be handy. Perhaps you as a GM may wish to exclude inanimate
objects, or even objects larger than Trolls, as being possible for the
Allies physical appearance.
> Would the ally of a shaman also gain totem bonuses, or could it
> be somehow written into the spirit formula?
> (would this require a special quest to the totem's metaplane, to ask
> a native of that plane to be his/her ally?)
---------------------------------
ATREIDE - Aymeric RICHARD writes:
> The totem gives bonuses to a specific person that is mentaly close to
> it(him?). A spirit is alien to human mind so cannot be close to a totem.
> Therefore, NO an ally cannot have totem bonuses (or restriction).
Well, I'd be a little bit the other way. Allies of a shaman come from a
particular metaplane, so they are deeply associated with that particular
plane at least. And since the shaman who summoned the ally had some pretty
definite views and beleifs, then I'm sure that something he invested that
much time, effort and karma into would have similarly aligned views. Perhaps
not enough to get the totem bonuses (or minuses for that matter), but it
would certainly believe the same things as the shaman. Initially at least.
But I wouldn't give it totem bonuses, since it isn't really a shaman, and
besides, the rules would have mentioned something that important if it were
to be the case, and since they don't, then I think it's safe to assume that
Allies don't get totem bonuses.
--
Damion Milliken Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: adm82@***.edu.au
(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+@ H s++:-- !g p0 !au a19 w+ v(?) C++ US++>+++ P+ L !3
E? N K- W M@ !V po@ Y+ t+ 5 !j R+(++) G(+)('''') !tv(--@)
b++ D B? e+$ u@ h* f+ !r n----(--)@ !y+
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 09:52:31 -0400
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Menard Steve <menars@***.UMONTREAL.CA>
Subject: Re: New spell, comments?
In-Reply-To: <199504060714.RAA27607@******.cc.uow.edu.au>
On Thu, 6 Apr 1995, Damion Milliken wrote:
> Menard Steve writes:
>
> > (Elemental) Sheath
>
> Sounds ok to me. But it kinda replaces anchoring to melee weapons doesn't
> it? Or actually, now that I think about it, it allows you to anchor a
> "flaming sword" (since no such spell existed to anchor previously), but
> [anchoring question] wouldn't it be more effective to spell lock or quick=
en
> the spell onto the sword rather than anchor it? The only thing I have wit=
h
> it is that it seems a little too much $$&$ish to me. You know, a flaming
> sword with 4 successes becomes a +2 sword and so on... I assume you don't
> allow the spell to be cast on dikoted weapons? Or if you do, then it eith=
er
> has a much higher TN, or screws the dikote?
>
Hum ... didn't think about this one. I'd say that the dikote, which
already covers the weapon, would indeed add at least +2 to the target numbe=
r.
As for it being too $$&$ish. Well, such things are so deeply ingrained
in the sub-conscious that it is just impossible for me to imagine it not
being invented!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-
--- |\_/| Still The One and Only Wolfbane! --=
-
--- |o o| " Hey! Why ya lookin' at me so weird? Ain't ya 'ver seen a --=
-
--- \ / decker witha horn ?" --- Scy, Troll decker with a Cý =
---
--- 0 Steve Menard menars@***.UMontreal.Ca --=
-
---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 09:56:01 -0400
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Menard Steve <menars@***.UMONTREAL.CA>
Subject: Re: "Disarming" magicians
In-Reply-To: <409A9E86B74@*******.mk.dmu.ac.uk>
On Thu, 6 Apr 1995, Neil Smith wrote:
> Another LS related question:
>
> How would police go about "disarming" magicians, to prevent the
> spellworms frying the cops with a flame bomb during an arrest? So
> far I've come up with:
>
> 1. Kill the magician.
> 2. Knock them out, through drugs or stun damage
> 3. Put a bag over their heads. Normally fabric, but a plastic one
> neatly combines methods 3 and 1.
> 4. Get an astral elemental to surround the magician. That way, any
> spell cast would have to kill the elemental first.
>
> Can people think of any others? And would any of these stop those
> nasty shamany-things summoning spirits?
>
> Neil.
>
There is another very simple way to disarm magicians : keep them
from being able to concentrate! And a very simple way to do this is to keep
them drugged. In a part(that I won't mention) in harlequin they do this
using a hallucinogen.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-
--- |\_/| Still The One and Only Wolfbane! --=
-
--- |o o| " Hey! Why ya lookin' at me so weird? Ain't ya 'ver seen a --=
-
--- \ / decker witha horn ?" --- Scy, Troll decker with a Cý =
---
--- 0 Steve Menard menars@***.UMontreal.Ca --=
-
---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 15:31:28 +0100
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: ATREIDE - Aymeric RICHARD <arichard@****.IRESTE.FR>
Subject: Re: "Disarming" magicians
Thomas Schreiner wrote :
> Another way to disarm a magicen is to put him infrared-glasses on.
> Or something like that that works electical, because the mage needs
> to see his victim directly.
> but do not forget to make sure he is not able to free himself of the
> glasses!!
If the mage goes in Astral he can see perfectly (sorry I did not read the
stuff about it that was writen some days ago). If so the glasses (or bag...)
has no effect. That's why LS cops put speakers onto ears to forbid the
concentration necessary for astral perception or projection.
> ps.: please excuse my bad english im from germany
I excuse you for not being english myself ;-)
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| "Enjoy your life, it's so short when you have a Dragon in front of you..." |
| |
| Aymeric RICHARD - Atreide on IRC E-Mail : arichard@****.ireste.fr |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 16:56:03 +0200
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Flogging C or N
In-Reply-To: <sf82c73f.092@*****.wstf.nasa.gov> from "Louis Barrera" at
Apr 5,
95 04:39:17 pm
> Feanor writes:
> > Spells are living entities you create and set on your oponent. Picture
> >them as dogs :) Can you pick up a dog and throw him at me ? :)
>
> I am not sure I see the point. As I have been eating my Wheaties, I could
> pick up my dog. The "attack" effect might be a little muted, compared to
> Fluffy charging you herself, but being pummeled with a 100 LB dog is no
> slice either.
I am sorry, but I do not think that any living crearure would willingly
let itself get used as a missile, and it certainly wouldnt pose any dagnger
to the target :) For god's sake man I was trying to be humorous !
> Feanor writes:
> >Ok here goes again - Why does everyone think I mean that people
> >actually change reality *sigh*.
>
> Well, if not change, how about sculpt. Is that closer? Is it like
> customizing a deck's reality (or whatever the frag it's called)?
This is closer, a mage percieves a different image of reality, one that
is "compatible" with his knowledge and experience. I think that the
decker analogy is pretty acurate - picture one of the kids that spend all
their lives in the matrix, the reason why they are actually that good is that
they directly learn to interact with their environmnet. Whereas a decker
goes through X years of training that mold his thinking/perception into
a specific model that helps him interact with the matrix. Its the same with
mages - they are the homegrown deckers - they have a wealth of experiences that
they use to understand life and solve problems that come their way. This
knowledge makes them able to function in the physical plane, but its not
100% compatible with the astral. Thus causing these differences in perception.
> Feanor writes:
> >So does thing mean that each newly create object automagicaly gets a
> >new nature ? If yes where does it come from ? And what makes that
> >new substance "high tech" Its as "high tech" as glass was a
coupla
> >thousand years ago - was glass back them to "high tech"? I suppose
> >you mean that its the objects percieved nature that does the trick - this
> >brings us back to WYTIWG(tm) :)
>
> So, ya wanna get metaphysical, eh? It's nature comes from what allows
> it to exist in the shape its maker gives it. We only discover all this stuff,
> we don't CREATE it. When you make something with Playdough, you
> have given the stuff shape. You didn't create Playdough. The act of
> processing material refines and alters its "natural" content, bringing it
> further and further from the Mana flux/ life energy that flows through
> everything. Which is why the TN modifiers. And it is not the perceived
> nature. It is the TRUE nature. We only perceive a part of it, normally.
> Can you say Tao. It is undefinable, yet the Mother of all things. On the
> other hand, I could be wrong. This is personal philosophy.
Ok how about glass then, its certainly not natural. So why doesnt it
"loose its link" when converted from sand to glass? I mean glass is the
last think someone would intuitively link with sand !
> Feanor writes:
> > I think its pretty clear that the mage refers to orbital stations cause
> >when the spirit talks about mages wandering the metaplanes and the
> >terrible things that happen to them he simple sneers and sez that he
> >means something else.
>
> Well, believe what you want, I will take the author's word on what he
> meant. The discussion is on the various metaplanes. But Dowd was as
> cryptic as all drek, as normal, and I had to cajole him to get that much.
Does this mean that you have heard from the DLoH ?
--
"Believe in Angels." -- The Crow
GCS d H s+: !g p1 !au a- w+ v-(?) C++++ UA++S++L+>++++ L+>+++ E--- N++ W(+)(---)
M-- !V(--) -po+(---) Y+ t++ 5++ R+++ tv b++ e+ u++(-) h*(+) f+ r- n!(-) y?
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 17:03:26 +0200
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Vince questions VII
In-Reply-To: <9504060104.AA17540@*******.etu.gmc.ulaval.ca> from "Vincent
Pellerin" at Apr 5, 95 09:24:30 pm
> GII.26 Stacking enchantements
>
> What is the rating of a magical item with multiple
> enchantements for the grounding and astral combat ?
>
> A)The highest rating of the functions
> B)The lowest rating
> *C)The sum of all the functions ratings
> D)The highest + 1/2 sum of the lower functions
Thats an easy one, the rules explicitly state that the power of the
stacked focus is the summ of the different foci "present" in it. And
an astral attack has a TN equall to the power of the item being attacked.
So its C
> Do you activate it a function at a time (does it count as
> multiple magic item for the limit SRII.137) ?
> Yes
> No
> *Maybe, depending of formula (choice of the maker)
I'd say that its up to the player, but I am not actually sure.
> If you activate a stacked enchantements focus containing
> a spell lock, does it dissapear (spell locks become insubstantial
> when sustaining a spell).
>
> yes
> No
> *Maybe, depending of formula (choice of the maker)
Definitely not as its no lock anymore.
> GII.86 (Shadowtech) Human on the astral
>
> Is the bioware and cyberware of the shadowtech modifying
> the atral characteristics of someone ?
> No (as state in the Grimoire)
> Yes (as said in the Shadowtech)
> Depend (cite exeptions)
We had a long and gory discussion over this one, anyone remember the
outcome :)
> GII.131 All barrier spells
>
> Is the personal form of these spells having the same
> effect as the physical barrier (SRII.158) : force field of cracling
> energy, with a visibility modifier of +1 ?
>
> *Yes
> No
Why not, if its the same spell with a limited target it should do exactly
the same thing.
> GII.131 Blade barrier
>
> What is the use of this spell, for a big area ? Keep to
> knifes out of it ?
>
> "Goon: Boss, i can't go trough!!
> Boss: So drop your knife, take your bat and follow me. "
Exactly, specialised barriers are so stupid!
--
"Believe in Angels." -- The Crow
GCS d H s+: !g p1 !au a- w+ v-(?) C++++ UA++S++L+>++++ L+>+++ E--- N++ W(+)(---)
M-- !V(--) -po+(---) Y+ t++ 5++ R+++ tv b++ e+ u++(-) h*(+) f+ r- n!(-) y?
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 11:07:22 -0400
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Subject: Re: Knock Back Revisited
In-Reply-To: Jan-bart van Beek's message of Thu, 6 Apr 1995 13:52:19 +0200
>>>>> "Jan-bart" == Jan-bart van Beek <flake@***.NL>
writes:
Jan-bart> My point is that although you're armor jacket stops the round
Jan-bart> flat, there's a shockwave going through you're suit and it's
Jan-bart> gonna shake you up a bit.
And if the bullet or particle beam has enough energy to throw the target
back, it'd do the same to the firer. This is well-documented by Newton's
Third(?) Law of Thermodynamics: for every action there is an equal but
opposite reaction.
[...]
Jan-bart> How about this.
Guess what? It's already figured in. Just because you take a wound doesn't
mean that your armor was penetrated, it means that some of the energy of
the impact penetrated. And, on top of that, you're adding at least one
extra set of dice-rolling which slows things down. If you want realistic
combat, go play Phoenix Command or maybe GURPS, not Shadowrun.
--
Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> | If Happy Fun Ball begins to smoke, get
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox | away immediately. Seek shelter and cover
PGP Public Key: Ask for one today! | head.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 18:08:37 +0100
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Martin Steffens <BDI05626@***.RHIJ.NL>
Organization: Rijkshogeschool IJselland HEO
Subject: Masking
Just wondering:
Is it possible to continue masking once you have been knocked
senseless? If not that would be a nasty suprise for all those "I mask
so my spell locks are save" types :). I checked it in the books but
couldn't find a clear answer.
*********************************************************************
Martin Steffens |"Don't touch me, or I'll wound your inner child
bdi05626@***.rhij.nl | ... and then I'll kick your ass" Beavis
GeekCode v2.1
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K- W+ M- !V -po+ Y+ t+@ !5>++ jx R++>+++ G''' tv+ b+++$ (sort
of) D++ B? e+$ (hah) u-(++) h f+ r n--- y+
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Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 12:36:11 -0400
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Scott Taylor Spencer <sts100z@********.CC.ODU.EDU>
Subject: Re: "Disarming" magicians
In-Reply-To: <409A9E86B74@*******.mk.dmu.ac.uk>
On Thu, 6 Apr 1995, Neil Smith wrote:
> Another LS related question:
>
> How would police go about "disarming" magicians, to prevent the
> spellworms frying the cops with a flame bomb during an arrest? So
> far I've come up with:
>
> 1. Kill the magician.
> 2. Knock them out, through drugs or stun damage
> 3. Put a bag over their heads. Normally fabric, but a plastic one
> neatly combines methods 3 and 1.
> 4. Get an astral elemental to surround the magician. That way, any
> spell cast would have to kill the elemental first.
>
> Can people think of any others? And would any of these stop those
> nasty shamany-things summoning spirits?
>
> Neil.
_____________
What about using their own spirits to alienate the mage/shaman.
Or Having say an Earth Elemental do a Sustained Engulf on the suspect
Or a Bind Spell
Or some nasty spell that LS has designed speciffically to deal with this
problem. I.e sort of like an AD&D Anti magic spell.
Does LS really arrest people? Gosh I didn't know that. **Grin.**>
_______________________________________________________________________________
"Come Friends Run With me Towards Danger"
-Unknown MST3K quote
Scott Spencer
sts100z@********.cc.odu.edu
"Nothing can stop us......we're on a mission from Glod"
-Cliff the Troll from Terry Prachett's Soul Music
_______________________________________________________________________________
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Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 03:01:52 GMT
Reply-To: Paul@********.demon.co.uk
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Paul Jonathan Adam <Paul@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Were-creatures
In message <01HOZJX8E19U005ELV@******.UCC.NAU.EDU> SHADOWRN@*****.nic.surfnet.nl
writes:
> The best answer to your question would be to read pg 230 in SRII black book.
> Under the heading of Shapeshifters.
>
> It explains that - Shapeshifters are born in animal form to another
> shapeshifter - some of the litter may be normal.
>
> It also says that it is a common misconception that shapeshifters are humans
> which that change into animals. They begin as animals, and remain animals
> that can change into humans.
Always assuming that the book tells the truth, the whole truth and nothing but
the truth, of course :-) But then some of my group's PCs have their own
secrets to keep...
--
When you have shot and killed a man, you have defined your attitude towards
him. You have offered a definite answer to a definite problem. For better or
for worse, you have acted decisively.
In fact, the next move is up to him.
Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 14:17:48 -0400
Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: "J.D. Falk" <jdfalk@****.COM>
Organization: Schroedinger's Cats
Subject: Were-creatures, etc --> NERPS!
You know...the current NERPS project would be a great place to
discuss were-creatures, lycanthropes, and all sorts of other paranormal
animals...not just Dragons. (Hint, hint!)
-------------========== J.D. Falk <jdfalk@****.com> =========-------------
| NERPS Project Leader (Editor & General Motivator), Keeper of the FAQ |
--------========== http://www.cais.com/jdfalk/home.html ==========--------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 19:05:28 GMT
Reply-To: Paul@********.demon.co.uk
Sender: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun <SHADOWRN@***.SURFNET.NL>
From: Paul Jonathan Adam <Paul@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Ares Viper Slivergun
I really don't see the point of the 'flywheel' system. You'd get a horrible
radial spray, more like a shotgun than an accurate pistol, and the more you
tried to choke it the more you'd lose. Also, ever been in a machine shop when
someone's using the grinding wheels? Not at all stealthy. Also, what keeps
the flywheel spinning that fast? If it's inertia, the gun is too well gyro-
stabilised to aim... If it's powered, what powers it, how long do the batteries
last, et cetera, et cetera... Interesting idea, but not credible in my game.
(Of course if your future technology is different... :-) )
Flechette rounds, case-telescoped, are pretty compact as it is, and making
them caseless helps even more. Considering that the Viper can only fire
flechette, and weapons like the Ares Crusader has a magazine of 40 in the same
concealability, I don't see it as unreasonable.
As for ranges, there are several weapons firing light pistol ammo at heavy
pistol ranges and vice versa: so the slivergun is not unique in that regard
either.
Damage is high, but then so's a Savalette Guardian, and you can load that
with APDS or EX explosive. I'd guess a rather specific ammo type, optimised
for hitting power and easy suppression, which needs the weapon to be designed
around it. Viper ammo isn't compatible with anything else...
As for the silencer, I say it's got the silencer mods in single shot and
a suppressor's effect at reducing burst-fire noise. Seems reasonable: this
is a rather specialist weapon.
I've always allowed combining gas vents and suppressors. After all, weapons
like the MP-5SD work pretty well today... :-) Otherwise there's almost no
point at all in having autofire-capable suppressed weapons. The Ranger SM-3
uses a combined silencer/gas-vent, so the rules permit it.
So the Viper has no direct equivalent, but approaches a modified Beretta 93R
with a built-in silencer firing subsonic case-telescoped flechette ammunition.
Whew.
--
When you have shot and killed a man, you have defined your attitude towards
him. You have offered a definite answer to a definite problem. For better or
for worse, you have acted decisively.
In fact, the next move is up to him.
Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
